SNK Stuff Thread 24- Summer 2020 Edition - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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Professor
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"SNK Stuff Thread 24- Summer 2020 Edition" , posted Sat 16 May 01:34post reply

SNK Stuff Thread 3
SNK Stuff Thread 4
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SNK Stuff Thread 22
SNK Stuff Thread 23Expresso
SNK Stuff Thread 24Expresso


Art stuff :

Senri Kita Blog / Hiroaki Blog
Nona Twitter / Nona Yfrog / Nona Blog
Other Artist Info / Other Artist Info 2


Hidden stuff in old games:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16260198 - Nico
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12375295 - Nico
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12949449 - Nico
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11733011 - Nico
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12290526 - Nico

https://tcrf.net/Art_of_Fighting_%28Neo_Geo%29 AOF1 Stuff
https://tcrf.net/Art_of_Fighting_2_%28Arcade%29#Unused_Title_Text AOF2 stuff






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"Re(1):SNK Stuff Thread 24- Summer 2020 Editio" , posted Sat 16 May 01:39post reply

A fictional story of one bike rider







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"Re(2):SNK Stuff Thread 24- Summer 2020 Editio" , posted Sat 16 May 05:33post reply

quote:
A fictional story of one bike rider


Haha, that was great!
Now I'm hungry...







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"Re(3):SNK Stuff Thread 24- Summer 2020 Editio" , posted Sat 16 May 10:02post reply

Jack is the hero AoF1 we deserve.





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"Re(1):SNK Stuff Thread 24- Summer 2020 Editio" , posted Mon 25 May 04:38post reply

I recently completed Iroha's storyline in SS 2019 and I loved how she played. I am hyped to see who the 4th character for Season 2 will be. I hope there will be a Season 3 and some added stages in the future.







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"Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Wed 27 May 12:59post reply

https://www.snk-corp.co.jp/us/games/ssngc/

Starts free for a week on Epic Games Store, then comes to Steam, PS4 and Switch afterwards.

Has SS1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Vanilla, 5 Special. And remember that lone loketest with the images of a different version of 5 Special with yellow lifebars? It was actually completed, but was just never released, until now. Introducing SS5 Perfect. It has additional tweaks/fixes and adds a brand new full story mode for the 5 Sp cast.

https://twitter.com/necrosofty/status/1265472772928462849?s=20
https://twitter.com/ManChest/status/1265478189066776577?s=20

A couple twitter threads regarding some more information about SS5 Perfect.





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"Re(1):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Wed 27 May 13:38post reply

quote:
https://www.snk-corp.co.jp/us/games/ssngc/

Starts free for a week on Epic Games Store, then comes to Steam, PS4 and Switch afterwards.

Has SS1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Vanilla, 5 Special. And remember that lone loketest with the images of a different version of 5 Special with yellow lifebars? It was actually completed, but was just never released, until now. Introducing SS5 Perfect. It has additional tweaks/fixes and adds a brand new full story mode for the 5 Sp cast.

https://twitter.com/necrosofty/status/1265472772928462849?s=20
https://twitter.com/ManChest/status/1265478189066776577?s=20

A couple twitter threads regarding some more information about SS5 Perfect.


That's awesome. I like it, Thanks for the threads.

Happy to play an unreleased game. Wish we can get more in the future.





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"Re(1):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Wed 27 May 15:47post reply

quote:
SS5 Perfect


That's the surprise game!

I know that this is the "Neo Geo Collection" and so SS6 being on different hardware would have required dedicated effort to be included here, but I would have liked to play also that.
What is the best version (arcade perfect?) of SS6 out there?







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"Re(2):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Wed 27 May 22:38post reply

Wow, SS 5 Perfect, a game with a history that is weird even by SNK standards! Glad to see that Brandon/exodus is out there doing good work.





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"Re(3):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Wed 27 May 23:35post reply

quote:
Wow, SS 5 Perfect, a game with a history that is weird even by SNK standards! Glad to see that Brandon/exodus is out there doing good work.



Wasn't SS 5 Special supposed to be a dream match game? Is Perfect supposed to introduce it to the canon story or will it still be a dream match, only with dialogues and endings?

In fact, didn't SS 5 vanilla lack a story in some parts of the world? I wonder if this one will be the one with a story or without it.





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"Re(4):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Thu 28 May 03:33post reply

quote:
Wow, SS 5 Perfect, a game with a history that is weird even by SNK standards! Glad to see that Brandon/exodus is out there doing good work.


Wasn't SS 5 Special supposed to be a dream match game? Is Perfect supposed to introduce it to the canon story or will it still be a dream match, only with dialogues and endings?

In fact, didn't SS 5 vanilla lack a story in some parts of the world? I wonder if this one will be the one with a story or without it.



It very specifically is a version not only with story, but it has new story, and that story has been translated by Brandon!







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"Re(5):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Thu 28 May 07:02:post reply

quote:
It very specifically is a version not only with story, but it has new story, and that story has been translated by Brandon!



Iím very excited. So much so that I came back to my favorite place for fighting game talk.





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[this message was edited by Mozex on Thu 28 May 07:03]

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"Re(6):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Thu 28 May 11:17post reply

quote:
I know that this is the "Neo Geo Collection" and so SS6 being on different hardware would have required dedicated effort to be included here, but I would have liked to play also that.
What is the best version (arcade perfect?) of SS6 out there?


Probably the Atomiswave dump people did years ago. Otherwise I guess you just have the PS2 or Wii version but I never really cared about comparing the performance of the port with the original arcade version.

quote:
In fact, didn't SS 5 vanilla lack a story in some parts of the world? I wonder if this one will be the one with a story or without it.


Don't remember about ports not coming with story but some characters like Shizumaru don't really make much sense. But considering we're getting arcade ROMs running in their emulator, this probably is the one with story.

I just wonder if we'll have actual lobbies and stuff like training mode.


quote:
It very specifically is a version not only with story, but it has new story, and that story has been translated by Brandon!


It might even the same story but considering it'll be properly translated this time, it'll feel completely new.







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"Re(7):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Thu 28 May 12:24post reply

the story is totally new! never before seen. It was meant to be a bridge (sort of) between V and VI, though there are some dream match elements to both of those games frankly. Anyone who can read japanese, by the way, I recommend you play it in the original language, because having translated this stuff, we only get 16 characters across, in 8 rows, to tell a story. In Japanese you can do a lot with that. In English... you can do like 1/3 of that, especially without breaking words apart.

It was neat to work on, and the fact the game got found at all is a miracle. Hope y'all enjoy!







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"Re(8):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Thu 28 May 13:28post reply

Vanilla Samurai Shodown 5 had a story but was Japanese only in the arcades. Only the domestic console releases (XBox in the US and PS2 in Europe) had an English translated story.







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"Re(9):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Thu 28 May 18:27post reply

I had totally forgotten about that red logo thing!!!
As a self-proclaimed big fan of the game, there is only one honorable way out of this (after buying the game, obviously).

I'm quite fascinated by how SNK does everything in their power to kill their already moribund fan base on PC (at least the one that pays for their games). After releasing KOF14 one year later with barely a netcode, releasing the new SS on Stadia, now it goes to EGS, the platform without a functioning controller interface, and that's full of young players who don't care about fighting games...
I understand they are struggling and in the short term the deal is probably a good thing, but I hope they're not surprised when the game again sells terrible numbers once it actually reaches Steam. I've never seen a company trying so bad to deflate their audience. After the whole pandemic thing forcing tournaments online, if KOF15 still has terrible netcode without crossplay, I... well I won't be surprised actually.







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"Re(8):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Sat 30 May 05:37post reply

quote:
the story is totally new! never before seen. It was meant to be a bridge (sort of) between V and VI, though there are some dream match elements to both of those games frankly. Anyone who can read japanese, by the way, I recommend you play it in the original language, because having translated this stuff, we only get 16 characters across, in 8 rows, to tell a story. In Japanese you can do a lot with that. In English... you can do like 1/3 of that, especially without breaking words apart.

It was neat to work on, and the fact the game got found at all is a miracle. Hope y'all enjoy!



Thank you for your hard work and dedication!! I'm totally picking this up for PS4.





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"Re(10):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Sat 30 May 16:20post reply

There is also a limited physical edition for PS4 and Switch!
https://www.siliconera.com/samurai-shodown-neogeo-collection-limited-edition-comes-in-a-neogeo-box/

Hope for a not-limited physical edition?





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"Re(2):Re(10):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collectio" , posted Sun 31 May 18:16post reply

Official website

quote:
Players can select between either Japanese or English MVS arcade versions for each title. Additionally, there are features such as scanlines for that retro flair, save functions, and arcade mode can even be set to FREE MODE meaning no more game overs!

*Note, online battle modes are only available for English ver.SAMURAI SHODOWN titles.


The site shows a not-limited version, listed as "Package: Coming this summer" both for PS4/Switch, hoping it's true also for my region...







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"Re(2):Re(10):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collectio" , posted Mon 1 Jun 02:01post reply

quote:
I'm quite fascinated by how SNK does everything in their power to kill their already moribund fan base on PC (at least the one that pays for their games). After releasing KOF14 one year later with barely a netcode, releasing the new SS on Stadia, now it goes to EGS, the platform without a functioning controller interface, and that's full of young players who don't care about fighting games...
I understand they are struggling and in the short term the deal is probably a good thing, but I hope they're not surprised when the game again sells terrible numbers once it actually reaches Steam. I've never seen a company trying so bad to deflate their audience. After the whole pandemic thing forcing tournaments online, if KOF15 still has terrible netcode without crossplay, I... well I won't be surprised actually.

Partnering with EGS is a deal with the devil but does SNK have any better options? When every conversation about this collection has to explain why SS6 is not included it's obvious the thing was never going to be a blockbuster. In this case I guess SNK decided to eat the seeds since they were never going to sprout and hope for better luck next time.

quote:
There is also a limited physical edition for PS4 and Switch!
https://www.siliconera.com/samurai-shodown-neogeo-collection-limited-edition-comes-in-a-neogeo-box/

Hope for a not-limited physical edition?


I sort of want this just for the artbook and the silly Neo Geo box the whole package comes stuffed in.







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"Re(3):Re(10):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collectio" , posted Mon 1 Jun 04:35post reply

quote:
Partnering with EGS is a deal with the devil but does SNK have any better options? When every conversation about this collection has to explain why SS6 is not included it's obvious the thing was never going to be a blockbuster. In this case I guess SNK decided to eat the seeds since they were never going to sprout and hope for better luck next time.

The compilation is a thing, and at least it will release on Steam a while later, but I was talking about the new SS, which after coming out on PC (but only on Stadia) is now going to be released on PC (but on EGS).







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"Re(4):Re(10):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collectio" , posted Mon 1 Jun 22:04post reply

quote:

The compilation is a thing, and at least it will release on Steam a while later, but I was talking about the new SS, which after coming out on PC (but only on Stadia) is now going to be released on PC (but on EGS).


Whoops, my mistake! For a niche game in a niche genre there certainly are a lot of SS games floating around out there right now.







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"Re(5):Re(10):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collectio" , posted Tue 2 Jun 13:58post reply

BTW I'm still waiting for the day when the latest MMCafe news will be posted: https://www.mmcafe.com/news/posts/10287.html

Only 24 days to go!!





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"Re(6):Re(10):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collectio" , posted Wed 3 Jun 01:26:post reply

quote:
BTW I'm still waiting for the day when the latest MMCafe news will be posted: https://www.mmcafe.com/news/posts/10287.html

Only 24 days to go!!



Holy moles! That's sure of an unexpected glitch, lol. The year must've changed when I refreshed that page, thanks for noticing!





[this message was edited by Professor on Wed 3 Jun 02:04]



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"Re(7):Re(10):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collectio" , posted Wed 3 Jun 06:15post reply

quote:

Holy moles! That's sure of an unexpected glitch, lol. The year must've changed when I refreshed that page, thanks for noticing!



I dunno, I always got a feeling you were kind of a futuristic guy!







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"Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Fri 12 Jun 04:42:post reply

It may be worth reminding that the PC version of the Samurai Shodown Neogeo Collection is currently free to own through the Epic storefront, as long as you claim it before next Thursday.

It is a 10GB install. The Epic store page does confirm that there is crossplay between the Epic and Steam versions. The Steam version doesn't become available until next week.

The PC port of Samurai Shodown 2019 was also released today through the Epic store. The first two season passes are available with 10% discounts until the 26th.

Unfortunately, the lack of PC/console crossplay most likely means SamSho 2019 is dead on arrival. Even if it wasn't an Epic store exclusive, I just don't see there being anywhere near enough of an audience to even begin to support a PC-only online scene. Honestly, I haven't heard great things even about the console side when it comes to online. (Which only makes it more of a shame that one of the things that Epic used to hype the idea of Epic exclusives was that their framework would make it easier for companies to implement console/PC crossplay.)


Link to the Epic store page to claim NeoGeo Collection:
https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/product/samurai-shodown-neogeo-collection/home





[this message was edited by Baines on Fri 12 Jun 04:43]



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"Re(1):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Coll. free on Ep" , posted Fri 12 Jun 17:11post reply

SS5 Perfect has mostly a universal storyline added to it. There are individual character endings with new artwork for those that are able to make it through Mizuki. It bridges the gap between 5 Sp and SS6. Zetsumeis are based on the "fixed" version of 5 Sp, so no dismemberment. SS5 Special on here btw is fully uncensored, which makes it interesting that the collection was able to get away with a Teen rating when its stand alone release a couple years ago was rated Mature.







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"Re(2):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Coll. free on Ep" , posted Sat 13 Jun 01:35post reply

quote:
Zetsumeis are based on the "fixed" version of 5 Sp, so no dismemberment.


I think possibly the most interesting cut (hehehe) and explanation for it had to be the dismemberment: they were removed to free up memory for story!
For me the "fatality" I associate the most with samsho has to be the jet of blood followed by the person collapsing (it wouldn't be until many years later that I learned of the Kurosawa movie that that is almost certainly a reference to), so no dismemberment winds up not being a big deal for me.







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"SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic reminder" , posted Sat 13 Jun 01:58post reply

Even if your computer can't play the game, even if you loathe Epic and its business practices, even if you are happy playing the games with superior fan-made online, I highly recommend that everybody goes and makes an Epic account and adds the game to their inventory (you don't even have to download it!). It costs you nothing, Epic has already paid SNK for this (if not paying them additional money for licenses past some point), and SNK gets to see that people want Samurai Shodown.

In particular, I want more brandon x SNK collaborations!

I'm already getting it just to see the new story content!







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"Re(1):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Sat 13 Jun 02:22post reply

quote:
Even if your computer can't play the game, even if you loathe Epic and its business practices, even if you are happy playing the games with superior fan-made online, I highly recommend that everybody goes and makes an Epic account and adds the game to their inventory (you don't even have to download it!). It costs you nothing, Epic has already paid SNK for this (if not paying them additional money for licenses past some point), and SNK gets to see that people want Samurai Shodown.

In particular, I want more brandon x SNK collaborations!

I'm already getting it just to see the new story content!



Eh.
Say what you want, I'm still waiting next week to get it on Steam.
Giving that specific game for free feels like a hook so specifically designed to suck me into the EGS ecosystem that it becomes almost too suspicious.
Like, say, if Capcom replaced the Nemesis-like enemy chasing you around in the new Resident Evil game with a redesigned Chris Redfield that looks like that dumb himbo you used to date for his insanely good looks for a while but by the time RE6 came out you decided you needed someone who had read at least one book in his entire life so you went your separate ways and you were pretty proud of yourself for having made this grown-up decision but a few years later he suddenly pops up in your timeline looking even hotter than ever and you're like "damn, I made a huge mistake".
That would look crazy suspicious and I would not fall for such an obvious trap.







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"Re(2):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Sat 13 Jun 04:12post reply

quote:
Even if your computer can't play the game, even if you loathe Epic and its business practices, even if you are happy playing the games with superior fan-made online, I highly recommend that everybody goes and makes an Epic account and adds the game to their inventory (you don't even have to download it!). It costs you nothing, Epic has already paid SNK for this (if not paying them additional money for licenses past some point), and SNK gets to see that people want Samurai Shodown.

In particular, I want more brandon x SNK collaborations!

I'm already getting it just to see the new story content!


Eh.
Say what you want, I'm still waiting next week to get it on Steam.
Giving that specific game for free feels like a hook so specifically designed to suck me into the EGS ecosystem that it becomes almost too suspicious.
Like, say, if Capcom replaced the Nemesis-like enemy chasing you around in the new Resident Evil game with a redesigned Chris Redfield that looks like that dumb himbo you used to date for his insanely good looks for a while but by the time RE6 came out you decided you needed someone who had read at least one book in his entire life so you went your separate ways and you were pretty proud of yourself for having made this grown-up decision but a few years later he suddenly pops up in your timeline looking even hotter than ever and you're like "damn, I made a huge mistake".
That would look crazy suspicious and I would not fall for such an obvio

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


In my case, I have the Epic store for the sake of Unreal Engine development experiments.

However, you can also choose to get it... .and then not play it on through Epic store at all. Frankly, the user experience of the Epic store is pretty bad! And with everything else they've got shady going on, I'm pretty ok with people not giving any money to Epic! You could basically make an account on their website, get the game, and never install their godforsaken launcher.

Basically I'd like to throw SNK a bone, and this costs me zero dollars to do so.







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"Re(2):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Sat 13 Jun 21:18post reply

quote:
Giving that specific game for free feels like a hook so specifically designed to suck me into the EGS ecosystem that it becomes almost too suspicious.


Giving that particular game away for free was presumably meant to be the hook to get people to buy SamSho 2019 on Epic. Which might have worked slightly better if the ARK giveaway hadn't been delayed to the same week.

But the giveaways really aren't that bad as an attempt to get people to use the Epic store.

The biggest difference between Epic and others is the scale and speed of Epic's efforts. Other storefronts might seek exclusives, but are much more selective. Other storefronts might offer dirt cheap prices or give games away for free, but they generally get the publisher to foot part or even all of the bill in the process. Epic has spread its money far and wide, giving cash to pretty much anyone that will take it.

Valve lured PC gamers to Steam by making it a requirement of Half-Life 2. From there, Valve convinced other publishers to use Steam, first by marketing it as a useful service, but later (once Steam achieved market dominance) with the perception that a Steam release was pretty much "required" for a PC game to be successful. As more publishers began to use Steam, Steam accounts became requirements just to continue to be a PC gamer, even if you never bought a game through Steam. Valve continued to lure customers, and crushed competing storefronts into irrelevance, through aggressive race-to-the-bottom discount practices (which it convinced publishers to effectively pay for).

While GOG's biggest gimmick is the offer of DRM-free versions of games, the store lured customers to the store with the ability to claim for "free" DRM-free versions of select games that the customer owned elsewhere, and has also given away simply for free (no prior ownership required) a number of games over the years. I don't believe I've ever bought a game through GOG, but my GOG account says that I own 155 games.

Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Activision, and the rest have all used combinations of exclusives and "free" games to both force and lure potential customers to their services.







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"Re(3):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Sun 14 Jun 01:02post reply

quote:
Valve lured PC gamers to Steam by making it a requirement of Half-Life 2. From there, Valve convinced other publishers to use Steam, first by marketing it as a useful service, but later (once Steam achieved market dominance) with the perception that a Steam release was pretty much "required" for a PC game to be successful. As more publishers began to use Steam, Steam accounts became requirements just to continue to be a PC gamer, even if you never bought a game through Steam. Valve continued to lure customers, and crushed competing storefronts into irrelevance, through aggressive race-to-the-bottom discount practices (which it convinced publishers to effectively pay for).

I think that reading was correct 10 years ago, but it really ignores the current situation of the platform. Like, Steam is rarely the cheapest place to buy the games anymore, key resellers are almost always 10 or 20% cheaper, even for preorders.
The real value of Steam in 2020 comes from all the features that are often lacking in other digital stores: easy refunds, gits, centralisation of mods, controller support, reviews, guides, discussions, direct access to the devs for smaller titles, free key generation for publishers, regional pricing (though a few corporations screw that up, for smaller devs it's something that wouldn't be possible to do on their own)... it's much more than just a launcher. And that's not even talking of all the initiatives regarding Linux, Vulkan, VR...
The biggest issue of Steam in 2020 is Valve's libertarian attitude towards society that has allowed alt-right, neo-nazis and general hate speech goons to flourish unchecked on their platform. When even Twitter is doing better than you, you really should start questioning if you're the bad guys.

GOG's main draft, along with being DRM-free, used to be the "abandonware" section where you could get old games that have been delisted everywhere and have them run on modern PCs. The issue they have now is that they have almost listed every important game in that category, and since by default more modern games become more available, the well is running dry.
They also have the other facet of Steam's "almost everything can go on Steam, even shovelware asset flips": their curation process is really not my cup of tea. When they rejected Heaven's Vault, that was a giant red flag for me.

Epic's only draw really are the free games and the short term plan for developers who don't see themselves investing in building a fan base (which makes sense if you need the money now to stay afloat, and not in two years when you're bankrupt). Origin and UPlay not any different from Nintendo's eShop.







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"Re(4):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Thu 18 Jun 04:15post reply

quote:
Epic's only draw really are the free games and the short term plan for developers who don't see themselves investing in building a fan base


Just a small note on that last thing - according to friends who have launched free on epic, it actually massively boosts their mailing list signups by like 15k or more... so it does seem to help build the fan base. The quality of the fan you get is debatable, since they're likely to be folks who only want stuff for free, but still, there's a potential strategy there.







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"Re(5):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Thu 18 Jun 07:14post reply

quote:
Just a small note on that last thing - according to friends who have launched free on epic, it actually massively boosts their mailing list signups by like 15k or more... so it does seem to help build the fan base. The quality of the fan you get is debatable, since they're likely to be folks who only want stuff for free, but still, there's a potential strategy there.


On one hand, wow, that's interesting!
On the other...
.... mailing lists? In 2020? It seems I'm even more out of touch than I thought.







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"Re(6):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Thu 18 Jun 10:28post reply

quote:

.... mailing lists? In 2020? It seems I'm even more out of touch than I thought.

You're so in-touch that you're out of touch again! Listservs are the new social media which are the new blogs which are the new BBS's which are the new listservs.





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"Re(6):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Thu 18 Jun 14:07post reply

believe it or not, when it comes to retaining customers and stuff, a lot of indies have turned to mailing lists because they're opt-in and show that the person is actually interested in what you have to say, so they get better engagement than, for example, a twitter follow.

yeah, it's weird times out there, folks are trying everything!!







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"Re(7):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Fri 19 Jun 04:22post reply

quote:
believe it or not, when it comes to retaining customers and stuff, a lot of indies have turned to mailing lists because they're opt-in and show that the person is actually interested in what you have to say, so they get better engagement than, for example, a twitter follow.

yeah, it's weird times out there, folks are trying everything!!



I think in recent years more people have started to realize that Twitter isn't necessarily as all-encompassing and ever-present as it appears. Apparently less then a quarter of internet users use Twitter, and less than half of those Twitter users will be on Twitter daily. (And even Twitter acknowledges that up to 8.5% of its active accounts may actually be bots.)

I probably check Twitter a handful of times per month, generally when something else prompts me to remember I have a Twitter account, and thus I miss pretty much any Twitter announcements directly. I get most of my Twitter news from forums where other people post Twitter links.







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"Re(8):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Fri 19 Jun 07:33post reply

quote:

I probably check Twitter a handful of times per month, generally when something else prompts me to remember I have a Twitter account, and thus I miss pretty much any Twitter announcements directly. I get most of my Twitter news from forums where other people post Twitter links.



yeah, I think it's mostly that people have started to mostly engage with one form of social media primarily, and ignore the other ones unless something happens there. twitter happens to be the one I'm on, and it's quite active for me, but I'm already recognizing that the audience is aging up with me, and not really being replaced by younger people, who are going elsewhere.

There's kind of a stereotype that 50+ year olds are on facebook, 35 year olds are on twitter, 25 year olds are on instagram, and teens are on tik tok, and... I think this is one stereotype that's not far off from truth.







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"Re(9):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Fri 19 Jun 10:59post reply

quote:

I probably check Twitter a handful of times per month, generally when something else prompts me to remember I have a Twitter account, and thus I miss pretty much any Twitter announcements directly. I get most of my Twitter news from forums where other people post Twitter links.


yeah, I think it's mostly that people have started to mostly engage with one form of social media primarily, and ignore the other ones unless something happens there. twitter happens to be the one I'm on, and it's quite active for me, but I'm already recognizing that the audience is aging up with me, and not really being replaced by younger people, who are going elsewhere.

There's kind of a stereotype that 50+ year olds are on facebook, 35 year olds are on twitter, 25 year olds are on instagram, and teens are on tik tok, and... I think this is one stereotype that's not far off from truth.



I have all sorts of notions about social networks which are entirely unproveable but are amusing to think about.

One of them is that unless you are a big media star with broad appeal, social media algorithms of today will inevitably ghetto-ize you with people like yourself. Because they will aim to direct people to you who are similar to those you engage most with, inevitably any given social media platform will be perceived by its users to be "aging up" because all of the discovery functionality will be heavily weighted towards things like yourself.

Another one is that there will continue to be markets for new social media platforms every few years, at least until there are endemic monopolies (e.g. if China were to mandate that the only social network allowed to operate in China is WeChat and weibo). The reason for this is two-fold: one is that youth will specifically want to NOT use the same social network that their parents are on: "It doesn't matter what it is, if my mom and dad use it, I DON'T WANT IT!" The cohort to this is the desire for a place that can be your "own stomping grounds". A social network that is relatively new can feel like that fresh pasture that your friends can be on, even if the truth of that is entirely based on perception. Inevitably this becomes the one you stick with because all your friends are on it, and the cycle repeats.

A third one is that video games will serve ever-increasingly large audiences as a social network. As a generation grows up with online games that form a major part of their life and a major means of communication, it winds up becoming a major de facto social network for them, and it serves as the SNS/platform bridge across the other social networks that the friends playing that game use.





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"Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remin" , posted Fri 19 Jun 13:08:post reply

These talks about social media are very interesting. To add on, there's certainly differences in social media usage between countries. Taking Japan as an example, the top Social media is LINE with around 84 million active users/accounts, followed by Twitter (45 million), Instagram (33 million), Facebook (26 million), and Tiqtoq (9.5 million). Whatsapp is non-existant.

LINE is pretty much the de facto social media here, so much so that the government used it during the early stages of the Coronavirus outbreak to check via questionnaires on how much of the population might be having symptoms. Most people here use a combination of LINE and another social media which usage is divided by age and purpose; Twitter is widely used for catching up to things and the core users are in their 20's and 30's (median is 35), while Instagram and TiqToq serves the more younger age range around 10's-20's. Instagram gets used by older age users too, since it allows for more text than Twitter and negative feedback is generally considered Taboo. Meanwhile Tiqtoq is used by the younger gens that grew up with smartphones and live in the hassle-free era; it does a good job letting them express themselves with filters and music, sort of like the "yattemita" clips during the NicoNico era but with more ease.

Facebook is a bit wonky; users of age 20's-30's make the bulk of their registered users but their core users are around age 40. However for entertainment sectors interested in trying to reach out to this older generation, it doesn't nessesarily mean that Facebook is the solution because it's used generally as a business oriented social media, ergo the higher age-- people would probably frown on succumbing to their hobbies on Facebook unlike how they would on other social medias.

I do wonder about gaming though, with the younger generation. At least here, they're used to subscription services and F2P games that the potentials of monetizing from them seems lower than with other generations. For example the core income here for SNS game publishers reportedly come from those in their 30's-40's, which makes sense considering multiple variables. (to me personally, it feels like the younger generation spend more on merchandise than games)





[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 19 Jun 22:07]



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"Re(2):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Sat 20 Jun 02:27post reply

quote:
The reason for this is two-fold: one is that youth will specifically want to NOT use the same social network that their parents are on: "It doesn't matter what it is, if my mom and dad use it, I DON'T WANT IT!" The cohort to this is the desire for a place that can be your "own stomping grounds".

I wonder if in a few generations, all the kids will be on Facebook because their parents would think "that's what my parents used!".
A social platform with only your best friends from school, but also your grand-parents so they can see what you like and give you appropriate presents for Christmas. OK, your grand parents might still post some weird out of touch and racist thing from time to time, but it's not different from any family dinner so you know how to ignore that.

quote:
At least here, they're used to subscription services and F2P games that the potentials of monetizing from them seems lower than with other generations. For example the core income here for SNS game publishers reportedly come from those in their 30's-40's, which makes sense considering multiple variables. (to me personally, it feels like the younger generation spend more on merchandise than games)

That would explain why most of the gacha games being launched are from licenses that are 10 or 20 years old (or even older, like the recent Captain Tsubasa gacha, or Yuyu Hakusho gacha), instead of something popular now among kids like Kimetsu no yaiba.







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"Re(2):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Sat 20 Jun 03:17:post reply

quote:
Facebook usage in Japan


In some ways it's like what one portion of Twitter is: a method for just blasting out corporate messaging.
Does it wind up being like LinkedIn's "social" features, which to me feel very cold and alien because the entire purpose of LinkedIn is to try to get a job? What do normal people (as opposed to corporate entities) tend to communicate on Facebook in Japan, given that there's a clear line of personal/fluff that comes across as gauche there?


A thing which I find Twitter has never really solved (and that they have no intention of solving) is that Twitter in its own original stated purpose was not a medium for conversations, but for broadcasting: it was something to send out brief thoughts/messages, hence "tweets". But because it has the option for replying, it has inevitably been used as a medium for conversations/dialogues, in spite of it inherently not being designed for that. People have had to try to hack up their own long-message things, there's a twitter unroller, etc. The whole medium is fundamentally flawed for what people are trying to use it for, but because everyone is on it and it's where all the hot topics are, everyone continues to try to use it for that. And I think the effects of that are not insignificant! By making discourse more inefficient, it's inevitable that the level of discourse is lowered.

quote:
monetization of a younger audience

I do think a confounding factor is the time/money balance that has been present with every generation of the past several decades: the younger generation has time but not money, while the older generation has money but not time. It is easy for a younger person who has a great deal of time but not money to amuse themselves by jumping between a bunch of different mobage or to spend hours and hours grinding away at one. The older person may simply not have the time for that, or wants to utilize the power of their money to get what they want. If you look at gacha rates, 1% rates for the shiny super rare whatever means that getting one RIGHT THIS MOMENT is simply not something that is going to happen for an average younger person because they just don't have literally a few hundred dollars they can blow on a whim. Merchandising winds up working better with them because whether they buy a cheaper item or save up for a more expensive item, the thing they want is the thing they get.

The same goes with buying a pokemon game for your kids: you can plunk down $60 now, and now your kid is set for entertainment and socializing for months! One-time fees! Hooray!

I think there's an interesting question around the idea of thresholds of value/entry: arcades were great for kids back then even if there was no guarantee of total play time because the cost of entry was low enough for them to access, and access to games was valuable. Now that access to games is no longer valuable what with F2P games and the ubiquity of computing devices, the question becomes what is the threshold of something sufficiently valuable versus affordable for a younger person?





[this message was edited by Spoon on Sat 20 Jun 05:26]

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"Re(3):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Sat 20 Jun 16:52:post reply

quote:
Facebook usage in Japan

In some ways it's like what one portion of Twitter is: a method for just blasting out corporate messaging.
Does it wind up being like LinkedIn's "social" features, which to me feel very cold and alien because the entire purpose of LinkedIn is to try to get a job? What do normal people (as opposed to corporate entities) tend to communicate on Facebook in Japan, given that there's a clear line of personal/fluff that comes across as gauche there?


From my personal experience, people tend to use Facebook as sort of a resume and contact window to keep in touch with associates they've met at work-related parties etc. They do talk about hobbies within acceptable constraints, such as traveling, DJ'ing, surfing etc. (I swear though, it feels like most of the hobbies that my associates mention on Facebook are things they can write off as expenditures from whatever current project they've been handed.)

The thing with Facebook is, when it was first introduced to Japan, the fundamental notion was that it was mandatory for users to use their real name and identity. That more or less ended up setting the direction of Facebook usage in Japan. There are of course people that use Facebook for personal non-business use, but it's no different that they tend to play safe and it's rare to see people bringing up subjects that can potentially stain their reputation.

Twitter on the other hand allows for anonymous and multi-account usage, so the way people take advantage of it is very versatile. It's pretty common for people to use multiple accounts for their different hobbies and purposes, for example you can have one account for communication with hobby friends, another account for trading items, another for local shopping purposes and campaigns, etc. The text limit isn't a huge problem for Japan as it is for English since the language is compressed, although admittedly 140 letters still isn't enough to go into long discussions.


quote:

I think there's an interesting question around the idea of thresholds of value/entry: arcades were great for kids back then even if there was no guarantee of total play time because the cost of entry was low enough for them to access, and access to games was valuable. Now that access to games is no longer valuable what with F2P games and the ubiquity of computing devices, the question becomes what is the threshold of something sufficiently valuable versus affordable for a younger person?


This is a very good question. From what I understand the average monthly allowance of a highschooler here is around 6,300 yen, plus 10,000 yen for smartphone/communication bills although that differs between households on whether the parent directly pays for it or hands the money to their child. 6,300 yen isn't much so taking on a part-time job would be very logical (average in Tokyo after tax is around 1,050yen/h). For Junior highschoolers it's a bit tougher since the average allowance is 2,500 yen and by Japanese law you can't get hired until March 31 after your 15th birthday. Gradeschoolers get a measely average of 1,000 yen.

At anime shops for example, most items are offered at an affordable price around 350-980 yen. These would be things like trading cards, clear file folders, gashas/ichiban-kuji. As it might sound, many of these products are random packs so trading/selling becomes a prequisite; a great way of keeping single prices down but having the customer keep buying. In comparison, SNS gashas at their 3000yen per ten-roll price isn't within sensible range for kids. Console games on the other hand makes more sense, since you can buy and sell at a used store and the margin you'd end up paying would be somewhere between 2,000-3,000, given that you have the console to begin with.

Come to think, that sort of brings another explanation on why fighting games aren't too popular amongst the younger age range-- it's too expensive when considering the need of a console and stick.

It's great going to the anime shops; you can hear conversations and the livelyhood of younger voices in real-time. It's quite different from the dried enthusiasm of old gamers for sure.





[this message was edited by Professor on Sat 20 Jun 19:00]



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"Re(4):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Sat 20 Jun 23:25post reply

quote:
It's great going to the anime shops; you can hear conversations and the livelyhood of younger voices in real-time. It's quite different from the dried enthusiasm of old gamers for sure.


If I may ask, what is it they ususally say?





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"Re(5):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Sun 21 Jun 00:24:post reply

quote:
It's great going to the anime shops; you can hear conversations and the livelyhood of younger voices in real-time. It's quite different from the dried enthusiasm of old gamers for sure.

If I may ask, what is it they ususally say?



If you mean to ask how their conversation tends to be different from gamers, gamers tend to talk about systems, whereas they talk more about the characters (they're looking at merchandises, so obviously so).

It should be noted that anime shop customers tends to be more girls than boys which is a big difference from game shops. But the random stuff they talk about actually aren't that different (did you pick this up already?, hey where should we go after this?, Oh yeah he/she's totally my recommended character, etc etc).

Also, gamers usually hit a shop to buy a particular title they have in mind, but customers to anime shops make their visits more randomly and they commonly buy merchandise for multiple titles, so the conversation can likewise span through multiple titles in a short time.





[this message was edited by Professor on Sun 21 Jun 02:16]

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"Re(6):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Mon 22 Jun 17:47post reply

It's silhouette guessing time!

We can exclude Cham-Cham. And also Kusaregedoh (I'm sad).

Could be Andrew from SS6?
A new character?







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"Re(7):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Mon 22 Jun 22:31post reply

The discussion about social platforms is interesting. Too often the ubiquity of a platform in one area makes the users think that it is universally used. The truth, however, is that may have a completely different function in a different part of the world. It makes communication with a worldwide audience a lot more tricky since there isn't a single, perfect platform.

In order to finally achieve a single, common communication system we are either going to end up interacting through dance emotes in Fortnite or go back to signing guestbooks.

quote:
It's silhouette guessing time!

We can exclude Cham-Cham. And also Kusaregedoh (I'm sad).

Could be Andrew from SS6?
A new character?


That really, really looks like the Warden from For Honor but we shall see.







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"Re(8):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Tue 23 Jun 03:43post reply

I'd be down for this







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"Re(6):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Tue 23 Jun 07:40post reply

sorry to get back to the social media thing but I've noticed that about Facebook in Japan too - it's used as a way to keep in touch with folks you know peripherally from conferences or business meetings. It's maybe the only reason I'm still on Facebook actually, and it's the primary way that some companies contact me. It's pretty odd, but japan has got me keeping facebook :P







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"Re(7):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Tue 23 Jun 07:44post reply

quote:
sorry to get back to the social media thing but I've noticed that about Facebook in Japan too - it's used as a way to keep in touch with folks you know peripherally from conferences or business meetings. It's maybe the only reason I'm still on Facebook actually, and it's the primary way that some companies contact me. It's pretty odd, but japan has got me keeping facebook :P



In the year 2020 Facebook is a crucial tool for commercial SNK game translations... I guess that means we can't destroy Facebook, how sad.

That really makes it sound like what LinkedIn wants its social features to be.







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"Re(8):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Tue 23 Jun 09:56post reply

quote:
That really makes it sound like what LinkedIn wants its social features to be.

"What's a linkedin? Can you eat it?"

Yeah, no one uses Linkedin in Japan. Professor's totally right, of course: Facebook started out in a limited fashion due to the real name thing, and had higher earlier usage among the international/multilingual crowd. The real name requirement meant that it also eventually filled the networking role that Linkedin somehow missed completely. I don't remember when Linkedin was first available in Japanese, but Facebook was pretty early on, and I suspect there were other factors, too. As a networking tool, Linkedin might be TOO serious: there's nothing "fun" about it, and it looks so "professional" that you'd feel uncomfortable posting much of anything lest you look like you're officially representing your company, and it's hard to escape the assumption you're on there looking for a job, whereas Facebook you could play sort of ambiguously. So nowadays, Facebook in Japan can be a funny mix of both your actual friends and some professional contacts that would seem less appropriate in the US unless you were a serious Silicon Valley type.

In conclusion: sorry, Mixi! Line is the place to be for MMC.





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"Re(8):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Wed 24 Jun 00:45post reply



quote:
That really, really looks like the Warden from For Honor but we shall see.










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"Re(9):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Wed 24 Jun 00:50post reply

quote:


That really, really looks like the Warden from For Honor but we shall see.





How did people manage to correctly identify the silhouette of a fully equipped medieval knight?

Oh, well. There were dozens of better characters for the spot, but also dozens of far worse characters they could have picked, so..... yeay...?





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"Re(10):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epi" , posted Wed 24 Jun 03:29post reply

Jeez, I really cannot see this collaboration paying of for SNK in the long run. I kind of dropped playing the new SamSho and season pass 2 isn't really tickling anything so far.

I guess I could understand wanting a more catch-all Knight character and Walter from SamSho Sen was probably WAAAY too generic to bring back.

On Neo Geo collection, that graphic filter is pretty impressive at times. The character select portraits on SSV looked like new art by Chamba (the Udon artist). The gallery is also very much appreciated. I love seeing behind the scenes art on games that show a wide variety of ideas thrown around before we got the iconic designs we have today. Proto-Nakoruru would have been a wreck. I love this stuff much more than some of the Naughty Dog artbooks out there. Those are great for environmental art, but you usually see the same generic characters, but in different shirt colors or patterns.

Also, Congratulations on 11K posts Iggy.







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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free " , posted Wed 24 Jun 04:50post reply

quote:
Jeez, I really cannot see this collaboration paying of for SNK in the long run. I kind of dropped playing the new SamSho and season pass 2 isn't really tickling anything so far.


The season 2 pass feels very low budget, as if they were trying to get by with cleavage instead of interesting gameplay. But considering I'm amazed SS even got a second season I can't complain too much.

Speaking of low budget, Warden is a perfect choice. He has no face and SNK could probably reuse a number of attack animations from other sword swinging characters. I'm also amused by the idea of a big crossover character being a nameless grunt. Not every character needs a convoluted backstory; sometimes fighting is simply their job. Still, I'm not certain that Warden's gameplay looks quite like it does in FH. I only mess around with PvE in FH, but when I play the Warden I spend all my time trying to shoulder charge enemies so they fall into bottomless pits. The clip featured too much slashing and not enough of the Warden stupidly running into people.







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"Re(10):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epi" , posted Wed 24 Jun 07:02post reply

quote:
How did people manage to correctly identify the silhouette of a fully equipped medieval knight?



When I did an image search for Warden, the first result was an almost identical match to the silhouette. I compared the silhouette and Warden's image in a graphics program, and the angle was only slightly off, preventing a truly perfect match. But the multiple points of detail all lined up when you did allow for a slightly different angle. The image of Warden I'd found happened to be the same image that Ubisoft uses on its web site for For Honor.

Besides, once you know the silhouette is someone in full armor, I'd argue it becomes easier to match it to a source rather than harder. There are only so many fully armored characters to match against, and most will have differing details in their silhouettes.

At least as long as the silhouette hasn't itself been altered to prevent matching. (Which I believe Capcom did with some of its SFV silhouettes.)







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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free " , posted Wed 24 Jun 09:20post reply

quote:
How did people manage to correctly identify the silhouette of a fully equipped medieval knight?


When I did an image search for Warden, the first result was an almost identical match to the silhouette. I compared the silhouette and Warden's image in a graphics program, and the angle was only slightly off, preventing a truly perfect match. But the multiple points of detail all lined up when you did allow for a slightly different angle. The image of Warden I'd found happened to be the same image that Ubisoft uses on its web site for For Honor.

Besides, once you know the silhouette is someone in full armor, I'd argue it becomes easier to match it to a source rather than harder. There are only so many fully armored characters to match against, and most will have differing details in their silhouettes.

At least as long as the silhouette hasn't itself been altered to prevent matching. (Which I believe Capcom did with some of its SFV silhouettes.)


That, and I spend a lot of time playing dress-up dolls with my characters (the main reason to play FH) and the Warden is in that pose when I'm trying to decide what color of fabric trim would go good with the new pommel I unlocked.







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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free" , posted Wed 24 Jun 18:06post reply

Internet detectives are really amazing!
How did you rule out "main character from Dark Souls 1/2/3"? Is the pose really that specific?