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LEGENOARYNINLIA
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"Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Sun 10 Apr 05:31:post reply

This idea popped in my head just now and I thought I should just go with it.

I'm sure everyone in here has played a plethora of different fighting games from way back. And I'm sure everyone has some great memories about them as well. So let's talk about them! We'll pick one fighting game per week and talk just about that one gem of a game. The more personal we can get the better. Did you become a fan of a certain character because of particular game? Or did you begin to hate some character for some reason in that game? Does a song in it bring back memories of good old times? Did you love the game even though you only had access to a sub-par console port? Or maybe you just regret selling it to buy another game you wish you had never bought. Let's share these stories. Hey c'mon!

And now begins the epic drama

Ultra Deadly Attacks meet the Hidden Power.

This is the long-awaited Real Bout!


Let's start off by talking about REAL BOUT GAROU DENSETSU.

RBGD is a game I own for three different consoles for some reason.

I was so into the game at one point (must've been in 2012) that my girlfriend back then made custom wrapping paper from Shinkiro's art to wrap my birthday present in. See? (Yeah, Krauser and Blood weren't in RBGD and Yamazaki is MIA which is a shame.)

For me RBGD is one of those games that I can enjoy even if I'm playing it against the CPU. Garou Densetsu in general trumps all other fighting game series in that regard, IMO. Maybe that's why I have Real Bout for the Playstation, Playstation 2 and Saturn. I was so happy to find a Hong Kong release of the PS1 version last December while going through video game stores in the New Territories looking for old games. Just because it's Real Bout and because it's the HK version. I don't have any better reasoning for buying it. The manual for the HK version has translations of all the special moves in English which was a pleasant surprise. What does Hishou-Ken actually stand for, does anyone know? Because I doubt it is egg-beater-blast..

I remember sitting on the HK MTR and reading the manual with a smile on my face when I tried to imagine who was responsible for the English translation. The first page starts off with:

quote:

Greetings.
Hey, guys. Thanks for choosing REAL BOUT GAROU DENSETSU for PlayStation.
Before you start playing, folks, will you take a careful look through this manual and see how things work? And also, don't lose this manual. It's got full of handy help, ya know.

- Oh, while reading this masterpiece, you may want to read the manual of the PlayStation.

- Hey, note that some of the pictures used here come from the video arcade version. Well, they sort of make my job a lot easier.



Oh what an innocent and casual world video games have once existed in.

Well, I don't want to spill all my lone wolf beans in one post so I'll pass on the mic...

EDIT: fixed typos.





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[this message was edited by LEGENOARYNINLIA on Sun 10 Apr 07:37]

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neo0r0chiaku
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"Re(1):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Sun 10 Apr 07:27:post reply

quote:
This idea popped in my head just now and I thought I should just go with it.

I'm sure everyone in here has played a plethora of different fighting games from way back. And I'm sure everyone has some great memories about them as well. So let's talk about them! We'll pick one fighting game per week and talk just about that one gem of a game. The more personal we can get the better. Did you become a fan of a certain character because of particular game? Or did you begin to hate some character for some reason in that game? Does a song in it bring back memories of good old times? Did you love the game even though you only had access to a sub-par console port? Or maybe you just regret selling it to buy another game you wish you had never bought. Let's share these stories. Hey c'mon!

And now beings the epic drama

Ultra Deadly Attacks meet the Hidden Power.

This is the long-awaited Real Bout!


Let's start off by talking about REAL BOUT GAROU DENSETSU.

RBGD is a game I own for three different consoles for some reason.

I was so into the game at one point (must've been in 2012) that my girlfriend back then made custom wrapping paper from Shinkiro's art to wrap my birthday present in. See? (Yeah, Krauser and Blood weren't in RBGD and Yamazaki is MIA which is a shame.)

For me RBGD is one of those games that I can enjoy even if I'm playing it against the CPU. G

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


My experience with RBGD started at Electronic Boutique. Well, not playing experience but let me explain. So at the time when stores like Electronic Boutique and Gamestop(or was it called another name? I forgot) was selling import games, especially Sega Saturn games, they had RBGD on display. Pandoras Cube and Starland did not have the game from what I remembered. I would always browse and look deep into the Saturn games they had for sell. RBGD stood out to me as a game that had a badass covert art on its package. It looks so sick and vicious, I fell in love. I would always just stare at it and look into the case more like if I knew how to read Japanese when I really could not. I mean this game was literally in every EB store(and that other video game store) I came across in multiple states I traveled to. My mind was like "I really need to buy this game, or set of both, soon!"

During those times I was always searching and buying import Saturn games on eBay. I finally got my hands on RB2 for a steal. However, the guy sent me one with no manual. I did not say anything until i tried the game out as much as I could. Sad to say, I was kind of disappointed with the game. Not that it was a bad game, I just wanted a little more or different at the time. After playing many fighting games during that time, especially KOF, I wanted more or expected more.

The game had a good presentation and great characters but I felt like I could not use them more like I wanted to. It bugged me to that it used the exact songs(arranged) that KOF 97 used for those characters. So it did not felt new/different to me. It was my pickyness that I did not get to experience the game like how you describe LEGEN. I really wanted to play with the Gin brothers especially but did not felt right to me. It was great to experience the characters from the old FF days.

The only FF game I played heavily with were FF1 and FF2 both for the Genesis. FF2 was the best ever and the music for the genesis was the best out of all of them including FF3. As a result, I spent about two weeks with RBGD and sent it back to the seller with no problem. He gave me a refund and that is when I finished my time with RBGD. All in all, I still believe the box art with Geese and his henchman(well they cut them off on this version) on the Sega Saturn is kick ass.





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[this message was edited by neo0r0chiaku on Sun 10 Apr 07:31]

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"Weekly classic fighting game: Real Bout FF" , posted Sun 10 Apr 07:42post reply

I love that the game seems designed with the final battle against Geese in mind, considering the ring out system - and on top of that, how that made the 1st round in the Geese fight not have a stage limit.

I actually liked FF3 and feel it has more personality than Real Bout though things like the character-specific stages and story progression, but RB's refinements to the gameplay mark it as something pretty special, mostly through finally relegating place-shifting to its own button. It would have been nice to see them merged together in some way.

It was pretty weird for the game to enable one some of the early matches to be against someone like Chonshu in a game that's such a landmark in the FF narrative, what with Geese's edath and the Jin scrolls issue leading up to it...

Admittedly, my experience with RB was brief, but the game was certainly on to something.





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"Re(1):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Mon 11 Apr 00:43post reply

I played RBFF after having played RBS, so I was spoiled a little by the upgraded graphics (like Blue Mary sprite, the RB one was ugly compared to RBS) but I enjoyed the game really a lot.
RBS it's a sort of Dream Match without story, so I liked it for 2 players battle with friends, but for 1P game / story mode I enjoyed a lot more RB.
Fatal Fury (the first one) is one of my preferred games, and having a sort of rematch of the fated duel with Geese atop the Geese Tower (obviously using Terry) was pretty cool.
I remember finishing it with one credit and beating the crap out of Geese taking advantage of the infinity scrolling of that stage and Geese tendency to spam Reppukens. Terry's Crack Shoot could pass above them and hit Geese very easily.

quote:
The manual for the HK version has translations of all the special moves in English which was a pleasant surprise. What does Hishou-Ken actually stand for, does anyone know? Because I doubt it is egg-beater-blast..


I don't know what is the actual translation, but I remember that the official english name was "Flying Crunch".

quote:
I love that the game seems designed with the final battle against Geese in mind, considering the ring out system - and on top of that, how that made the 1st round in the Geese fight not have a stage limit.



It was unlimited only on the first round? I have completely forgotten this thing!





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"Re(2):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Mon 11 Apr 00:47post reply

quote:
What does Hishou-Ken actually stand for, does anyone know? Because I doubt it is egg-beater-blast..
Haha, but that's all I want it to mean. Now, watch me perform a magic trick by being "useful" in a SNK thread despite not knowing SNK---if it's Andy's move, it's 飛翔拳, Soaring/Flying Fist. Stick with Egg-beater.





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"Re(3):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Mon 11 Apr 03:45post reply

Real Bout 1 is one of the important landmarks in my long NeoGeo career; as it was a game that "pulled me away" of my regular fighting game menu and made me realize that appetizing with more frequence other dishes was not bad at all.

Showing endings in narrative through image sequence alone was pretty creative compared to basically every other ending style SNK had been popping up at the time. I remember I didn't liked it that much at first since I was a little bit ignorant at the time... granted that seeing RBS and RB2 less consistent drawing style improved my already high opinion on RB1 scene style; so the remaining impression about the art and stage direction was sky high.

I'll never forget the cool selection screen, specially since the arcade itself was dark and gave a similar feeling; making us rave more about the game.

Gamewise, I played VS sets in that game a lot; and experienced a good deal of that wonderful innocent teenage feeling of teleporting myself towards a ringout with Chonshu, heh. I remember everyone considered me odd because I could do Yamazaki's anti-air hand on reaction without charging the fist nor inputting any anti-jump measures beforehand; I remember a good chunk of people glued to my hands as I played in order to 'get the trick'..... While trying the move when RBS arrived, I thought the stick was broken initially.






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"Re(4):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Tue 12 Apr 12:28post reply

quote:
Real Bout 1 is one of the important landmarks in my long NeoGeo career; as it was a game that "pulled me away" of my regular fighting game menu and made me realize that appetizing with more frequence other dishes was not bad at all.

Showing endings in narrative through image sequence alone was pretty creative compared to basically every other ending style SNK had been popping up at the time. I remember I didn't liked it that much at first since I was a little bit ignorant at the time... granted that seeing RBS and RB2 less consistent drawing style improved my already high opinion on RB1 scene style; so the remaining impression about the art and stage direction was sky high.

I'll never forget the cool selection screen, specially since the arcade itself was dark and gave a similar feeling; making us rave more about the game.

Gamewise, I played VS sets in that game a lot; and experienced a good deal of that wonderful innocent teenage feeling of teleporting myself towards a ringout with Chonshu, heh. I remember everyone considered me odd because I could do Yamazaki's anti-air hand on reaction without charging the fist nor inputting any anti-jump measures beforehand; I remember a good chunk of people glued to my hands as I played in order to 'get the trick'..... While trying the move when RBS arrived, I thought the stick was broken initially.



I haven't played very much Fatal Fury so I don't have anything to add in terms of personal anecdotes, but I'm very much enjoying reading everyone's comments. I think the last time I played RB1 was at your house LEGENOARYNINLIA! I should give the game another shot.

Thanks for starting this thread, it's a fantastic idea!






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LEGENOARYNINLIA
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"Re(5):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Tue 12 Apr 17:36post reply

For those who haven't seen RB1 in action here's a channel that has lots of great matches: rb1ukyo

quote:

I haven't played very much Fatal Fury so I don't have anything to add in terms of personal anecdotes, but I'm very much enjoying reading everyone's comments. I think the last time I played RB1 was at your house LEGENOARYNINLIA! I should give the game another shot.

Thanks for starting this thread, it's a fantastic idea!



I'm sorry but I doubt you have been to my house, nobi! I live in Finland. I think you've confused me with someone else. But if you want to come over and play some games, sure why not!

My personal anecdote about RB1: I'm a huge Yamazaki fan, but playing the game I got the feeling that the game needs to be experienced first hand as the Bogard bros and I had no choice but to reset the machine and pick Terry instead. I beat the game as him first, then as Andy and then as Joe. Only then I felt like I could play as the other characters. That's how riveting the setting of the game is. SNK's games really knew how to do boss fights right* and how to set up the athmosphere for the battle.

*even if that is not the consensus on the internet

---

quote:

Real Bout 1 is one of the important landmarks in my long NeoGeo career; as it was a game that "pulled me away" of my regular fighting game menu and made me realize that appetizing with more frequence other dishes was not bad at all.

I'll never forget the cool selection screen, specially since the arcade itself was dark and gave a similar feeling; making us rave more about the game.



Hopefully this thread will encourage more people to try out different games and especially to dip deep into the history of fighting games and really relish the offerings.

The character selection screen in RB1 is one of the best I've ever seen in a fighting game. And when you made a note about the less consistent art direction in the later game I was immediately reminded of RB2's character select screen which is the complete opposite of what RB1 has. It's very bland. RB1 has intense presentation and I love it. The whole game wrapped up in this mood that someone is going down and soon.

quote:

The only FF game I played heavily with were FF1 and FF2 both for the Genesis. FF2 was the best ever and the music for the genesis was the best out of all of them including FF3. As a result, I spent about two weeks with RBGD and sent it back to the seller with no problem. He gave me a refund and that is when I finished my time with RBGD. All in all, I still believe the box art with Geese and his henchman(well they cut them off on this version) on the Sega Saturn is kick ass.



I haven't really played those ports on real hardware, but I did check out the Mega Drive FM soundtracks on Youtube and enjoyed them a lot. Thanks for the tip! FM stuff always puts me in a good mood. Unless it's crap quality like the SSF2 port.

Oh, and speaking of the Saturn port of RBGD. On my modded PAL machine I can do this trick with the Japanese version of the game: Start up the game normally, then hit ABC+Start to reset the game and suddenly the game changes to RBFF. The title screen and other graphics are in English!

---

If someone hasn't heard this one yet but enjoyed the story in Garou Densetsu games; definitely check this out: Kong Kuwata - The Sunset Sky Final (AKA Geese singing to you from the heavens)

RIP Geese





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"Re(6):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Tue 12 Apr 18:05post reply

quote:
I'm sorry but I doubt you have been to my house, nobi! I live in Finland. I think you've confused me with someone else. But if you want to come over and play some games, sure why not!


Oh shoot I thought you were Red Falcon with a new name! Doh!
Well, if I'm ever in the neighborhood I'd love to drop by haha.






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"Re(7):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Wed 13 Apr 01:21post reply

RB may not be the best SNK game (however you judge something that arbitrary) but it may be my favorite. Fatal Fury was the SNK series that was the most innovative in gameplay and style and RB was the high water mark. The presentation of the single player mode felt far more personalized and compelling than what many games had done before or since. When you add in the ability to boot people into subway cars you have a game that has a great deal of charm. The image of Geese on the cover is also terrific.





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"Re(8):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Mon 18 Apr 21:40:post reply

Let's keep the Real Bout spirit still alive and move on to Real Bout Special. First person to mention Blue Mary's boobs wins a prize!* If you still have something RB1 related you want to share, go ahead. Also, Dominated Mind and the GB version are also on the table.

Did SNK have any EX characters in their games before RBS? I've been playing around as EX Andy and EX Tung and then it hit me that this version of Tung was made specifically for this game yet he also has an EX version! So I started wondering what and why made the team responsible for the game create these alternative versions for a dream match title. And at the same time I've been wondering if Krauser was very popular in Japan since he's not really featured in the official artwork or covers of the ports for the game, while he is in the intro. I remember someone linking a video of a Japanese female pro wrestler wearing Krauser's armor as she walked into the ring. Did his popularity fade after GD2/GDS?

*There is no prize.

This is a great thread: Here

EDIT: In the old thread people were wondering if RBS is canon. I always thought that Krauser committed suicide after GD2, so how could RBS be nothing but a dream match then?





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[this message was edited by LEGENOARYNINLIA on Tue 19 Apr 06:35]

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"Re(9):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Mon 18 Apr 22:19post reply

quote:
Did SNK have any EX characters in their games before RBS?
That would be SS Zankurou Musouken, wouldn't it?
Maybe the people who did RBS decided to only give an alternate moveset to the characters they had ideas for, instead of forcing it on everyone and have some character with only half of a movelist.
The EX versions didn't appear in RB2 (or Wild Ambition while we're at it), did they? They merely kept on living in KOF dreammatches.
Amongst all the good ideas in SS0, I like that they spun out the worthwhile EX characters into new individuals. It probably would have been more difficult to do in FF... An alternate shiranui ninja for Andy, Blue Mary's sister, Tung Fu Rue's... wife?
Yeah, better keep them EX.





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"Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Mon 18 Apr 22:47post reply

quote:
That would be SS Zankurou Musouken, wouldn't it?


...And that's the game I currently have in my arcade cabinet too. Did SNK have EX characters before that?





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"Re(2):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Tue 19 Apr 05:24post reply

RBS was a game I should have played more but my Neo CD copy of the game mysteriously vanished from my library at some point. I have no idea where it went, and it's the first and only game I've ever lost track of in my life.

Also I'm disappointed that I can't seem to find any youtube footage of someone playing Original Mode in the CD version of RBS. The other CD version extra is more readily available though.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Tue 19 Apr 19:58post reply

After the new power of Guile crouch-walking, I went into an argument at work with one of my colleagues who obviously wanted to do actual work as little as me: was crouch-walking something that was in RB or stopped at 3? In my mind, it was in RB and RBS, but the other guy maintains it was removed after 3.
None of us remember whether it was in RB2 or not.

We are old (and lazy, but mostly old).





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"Re(4):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Tue 19 Apr 20:48:post reply

IIRC it's in all Real Bout games. I played RB1 last night so I am 100% sure about that one.

EDIT: You can't crawl in Dominated Mind.





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[this message was edited by LEGENOARYNINLIA on Wed 20 Apr 04:41]

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"Re(5):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Thu 21 Apr 12:55:post reply

I didn't know/realise they removed it for RBSDM, but you can crawl in RB2 and it's pretty useful to control space. Which, in reply to the main topic here, is pretty much the only fighting game I've been playing in the past ten years.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Thu 21 Apr 13:09]

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"Re(6):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Fri 22 Apr 19:50:post reply

Even without the two planes and lack of crawling Dominated Mind is already a very different game from the original RBS. And the game has that "parry dash" system too. But on top of those three major differences add different move lists, different commands for special moves and supers and even the fact that chain combos are different in the game compared to RBS and you'll see that DM is a completely new game that just recycles the graphics from RBS. I'd even go as far to say it is very Street Fighter player friendly.

It's a console exclusive title that initially looks like a lacking port that is hard to take seriously, but I think it's a great single player experience on the go because you can just fool around and have fun. It was the first game I bought for my PSP and since then it has been my all time favourite portable game.

I have a Playstation Pure Pure Club disc that has a save file that unlocks all the secret moves for all the characters. I think it's pretty essential. At least I couldn't do without it anymore as the requirements to unlock the moves are harsh and there's also a bug related to it.

Here's what it looks like if someone wants to try finding one: Playstation Pure Pure Club Vol 13

You can also just mail me a PS1 memory card and I'll copy the file for you.





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[this message was edited by LEGENOARYNINLIA on Fri 22 Apr 19:52]

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"Re(7):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Fri 22 Apr 20:46:post reply

Agh, so late on writing on this thread given that Real Bout 1 is certainly one of my favorite Neo Geo titles. The game actually had a hidden code that could destroy the PCB's data... very scary.

Dominated Mind was a wacky game. With a boss of that design and Geese with an angel's halo, the designers certainly must've had fun making it. Didn't it come with some adventure-game-like bonus disc? I still have it somewhere.





[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 22 Apr 20:47]

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"Re(8):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Fri 22 Apr 22:38post reply

quote:

Dominated Mind was a wacky game. With a boss of that design and Geese with an angel's halo, the designers certainly must've had fun making it. Didn't it come with some adventure-game-like bonus disc? I still have it somewhere.



I recall reading about that - apparently it let you interview a bunch of FF characters, all the way from then 1-game charcters like Hwa Jai and Michael Max all the way to the Real Bout cast and even Ripper and Hopper, but I I can find online is this video and this FAQ by Kao Megura (RIP).

To this day I wonder what the hell Ripper and Hopper have to say... which reminds me that apparently using an emulator to play SvC Chaos, if you beat the game with Geese you can remove Billy's sprite layer and reveal that Ripper and Hopper are holding hands - I can't find that anymore though, even on the TCRF page for the game, so maybe some rechecking is in order one of these days.





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"Re(8):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Fri 22 Apr 22:46post reply

The limited edition comes with an second disc packed with extra content for fans. It's nothing special unless you enjoy torture or can speak Japanese.

RB2 was already in the arcades when Dominated Mind came out. I wonder how many copies DM sold.





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"Re(9):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Sat 23 Apr 00:49post reply

quote:

RB2 was already in the arcades when Dominated Mind came out. I wonder how many copies DM sold.



Probably not many, I know I bought it.

The final boss was that "White" guy, which now that I think about it, he could have been some sort of precursor (design wise) for MOTW's final boss, Kain.





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"Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game th" , posted Sat 23 Apr 01:02post reply

quote:
The game actually had a hidden code that could destroy the PCB's data... very scary.

What? I'm assuming that's an unintended sequence built into the coding but, still, that's quite the Easter egg.

quote:
The final boss was that "White" guy, which now that I think about it, he could have been some sort of precursor (design wise) for MOTW's final boss, Kain.


They certainly buy their suit jackets at the same store. Otherwise, I suspect that White has more in common with K99999 in that they have both been banished to limbo due to their shameless designs.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Sat 23 Apr 01:34post reply

quote:
What? I'm assuming that's an unintended sequence built into the coding but, still, that's quite the Easter egg.


I don't remember the exact details but in the first shipment of the RB1(MVS) release, you could hold ABCD after the game over screeen and it would switch the game to debug mode if you kept holding it until the demo screen had looped. Afterwards if you held on the 1P start button and pressed start from the 2P side, the screen could be switched to something like a software dip switch with numbers.. and it'd end up doing some odd effects to the game, including glitches like make the coin slot unrecognizable and so fourth.

The biggest problem was that turning off the board's power didn't reset it, so operators had to send it to SNK for a fix. Fortunately, this was only with the first shipment of boards.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Sat 23 Apr 10:54post reply

quote:

They certainly buy their suit jackets at the same store. Otherwise, I suspect that White has more in common with K99999 in that they have both been banished to limbo due to their shameless designs.



White did manage to appear in a KoF2002UM stage, the same game that replaced K9999 with a guy actually called Nameless that pretty much got more backstory than the character he was meant to replace, and for a plotless game no less - I figure White is safe from limbo, but not much more than someone like Michael Max is.





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"Re(9):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game thr" , posted Sat 23 Apr 11:41post reply

quote:
RB2 was already in the arcades when Dominated Mind came out. I wonder how many copies DM sold.



Unfortunately we don't have the data on Geimin. Around the same time on PS1, The Gekka no Kenshi port sold 40.000 copies, and Metal Slug sold 50.000 copies. I am afraid DM sold much less than that.

There was no home conversion of RB2 running on anything else than SNK hardware until the PS2 battles archives and Wii Virtual Console releases around 2006-2007, so I assume RB2 did not compete so much with RBS:DM. And the consumers for the PS1 conversion market and the arcade market were pretty different (or at least not meant to be interested in the respective arcade and PS1 releases for the same reasons). It's rather that the series lost a lot of its mainstream appeal once KOF (and 3D fighting games) came out, so the kind of consumers interested in SNK games on PS1 did not care so much for Real Bout...

It's also interesting to note that SNK themselves made a clear distinction between RBS and RBS:DM as two separate games. In the famous All About SNK Fighting Games 1991-2000, DM has its own chapter unlike any other "port".

Cool Real Bout death code anecdote! I had never heard about that.





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"Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game th" , posted Mon 25 Apr 10:50:post reply

I am not a big fan of Mark of the Wolves but this was a cool tournament to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyBiLYxff_A





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Mon 25 Apr 10:52]

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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Mon 25 Apr 15:32post reply

quote:
I am not a big fan of Mark of the Wolves but this was a cool tournament to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyBiLYxff_A



holy crap, that guy going the distance registered under random select is crazy good!





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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Mon 25 Apr 20:27post reply

quote:
I am not a big fan of Mark of the Wolves but this was a cool tournament to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyBiLYxff_A


1) I hate that guy so fucking much. I hate his voice, I hate his face, I hate what he says, I hereby require a warning whenever anyone posts a video with him in it.
2) On top of that, the framerate is weird... which is annoying for MOTW, where the animations are one of the few saving graces of the game...





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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Mon 25 Apr 23:38post reply

Let's not skip RB2 guys.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Tue 26 Apr 01:07post reply

quote:
Let's not skip RB2 guys.

I sure don't know anything about SNK, but despite being a continuing anomaly at the Cafe in this regard, I look forward to the day when Tobal 2 comes up and I convince everyone that it's one of the greatest fighting games in the world.

In the meantime, this is a nice place to witness the love second-hand and learn about what I missed, especially after my last botched attempt to find an entry point in non-Metal Slug, non-Samurai Spirits SNK.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Tue 26 Apr 02:00post reply

Tobal 2? C'mon, let's keep it on topic. Talk about Real Boul 2.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Tue 26 Apr 03:55post reply

Dominated Minds, along with Wild Ambition; were basically the only SNK games for ps1 that weren't cluncky as hell nor neither butchered ports.
I mean, for the console kofs, we could only play single player due to the atrocious loading times and many times we even agreed on using the same characters to decrease those loadings; and when the game finally loaded you had a chunky game with low FPS. For the regular SNK fan here, DM was basically the first oportunity where you can truly get "the SNK experience" in home; of course we didn't knew anything about AES or whatever those things were called, since such expensive stuff never travels that far worldwide.


As for RB2, I have always been quite conflicted about it; since due to the flow of damage, time available to fight and how strong the act of defending is; even if the two players aim to go at it aggressively, the match can still end in a time over, bleh.






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"Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Tue 26 Apr 19:51post reply

Tobal was the first game I can recall with ground n' pound as a core mechanic that everyone did.

---

What's the first vs game with hyper armor?





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"Re(8):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Tue 26 Apr 23:26post reply

quote:
What's the first vs game with hyper armor?



I think Capcom's Marvel Super Heroes had that as one of the abilities the gems in that game could give you - I'm not sure if Juggernaut had that in X-Men Children of the Atom before it though, it would certainly fit... then again, he was a boss in that game if memory serves me right.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Wed 27 Apr 00:39post reply

quote:
Tobal 2? C'mon, let's keep it on topic. Talk about Real Boul 2.



I love that website. And CRTs.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Wed 27 Apr 04:11post reply

Since we are going on about RB games I have to ask: what is the deal with Sokaku? He's not some utterly forgettable fighter like Franco Bash but having a unique visual style doesn't necessarily make for a well made character. The usual lazy complaint for a character that someone feels is too off-center for a fighting game is that the character should be in Darkstalkers, but if there ever was a character from a street-level fighter like RB who could fit right in with Morrigan it would be Sokaku. It felt as if SNK was also never certain about Sokaku since he often plays in a very different manner from game to game. He's a strange old guy who I sort of wish would come back since he is such an oddity.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Wed 27 Apr 06:41post reply

quote:

I love that website. And CRTs.



Thank you. I'm glad you like it.

I think Sokaku is a perfectly executed "dry" character concept that doesn't even let the fans near him to know what his personality is like. He's just stern and determined. And dangerous. It creates a nice contrast with the rest of the cast.

He's my main in RB2, actually.





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"Re(8):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Thu 28 Apr 02:01post reply

quote:
Since we are going on about RB games I have to ask: what is the deal with Sokaku? He's not some utterly forgettable fighter like Franco Bash but having a unique visual style doesn't necessarily make for a well made character. The usual lazy complaint for a character that someone feels is too off-center for a fighting game is that the character should be in Darkstalkers, but if there ever was a character from a street-level fighter like RB who could fit right in with Morrigan it would be Sokaku. It felt as if SNK was also never certain about Sokaku since he often plays in a very different manner from game to game. He's a strange old guy who I sort of wish would come back since he is such an oddity.



I like the fact that his abilities and presence are a nice reminder that FF is supposed to be in continuity with Last Blade. I prefer to think of the South Town games as a grounded setting whose stories can be told without supernatural shennanigans, but since that's out the window, Sokaku handles the burden gracefully.
I do wish they'd had elaborated on the supposed rivalry with the Shiranuis...





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"Re(9):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting g" , posted Sun 1 May 19:31post reply

SO LONG, GEESE...
Only the lonely can be the strongest.

I guess that's enough for RB love. What's next?





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"Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting " , posted Mon 2 May 01:04post reply

quote:
SO LONG, GEESE...
Only the lonely can be the strongest.

I guess that's enough for RB love. What's next?

Well my arcade didnt have real bout games (a shame) but the one I play 94 and SS back in the day (20 years ago T_T) had also Darkstalkers and boy I was in love.
At the time I couldnt speak any foreign language so I didnt know what was happening. But the music, voice acting and sound effects along with the visuals created this atmosphere that was so dangerous, so thrilling at the same time incredibly attractive. I was around nine or ten so this horror type game blew my mind. I used to watch horror movies/series secretly even though I was scared as hell. This game has this same attraction for me. I remember this old style europian street stage was truly scary and adventrous for the 10 year old version of me.

Nothing particularly was horrifyingly scary but the atmosphere and the characters somehow make it like that Iwas inside that world. To my surprise years later considering there was no internet or nothing to know that it exist, in a far arcade in outer city have the sequel. I only have few chances of playing it. Character select and Lei Lei's stage was memorable. Not as scary but rather exciting. I chose Lei Lei always. One day I find Ps1 copy fo Darkstalkers 3 and played it to death. I remember the bus ride home it was the longest. I was trying to figure out who was who and who was new in the back cover artwork. When I arrive home I immediately start to play. After I'm done with story mode I was oggling the new moves animation of the new moves of every character and every move. Every burn, cut animation every transformation I did everything. It was one of the richest games I played.

To me, Capcom after Clover days become *the singer who sang heartfelt songs in bunch of album full with songs in the past but now insisting of singing awful singles and remixes in a bad style.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Weekly classic fig" , posted Mon 2 May 04:46post reply

quote:
SO LONG, GEESE...
Only the lonely can be the strongest.

I guess that's enough for RB love. What's next?
Well my arcade didnt have real bout games (a shame) but the one I play 94 and SS back in the day (20 years ago T_T) had also Darkstalkers and boy I was in love.
At the time I couldnt speak any foreign language so I didnt know what was happening. But the music, voice acting and sound effects along with the visuals created this atmosphere that was so dangerous, so thrilling at the same time incredibly attractive. I was around nine or ten so this horror type game blew my mind. I used to watch horror movies/series secretly even though I was scared as hell. This game has this same attraction for me. I remember this old style europian street stage was truly scary and adventrous for the 10 year old version of me.

Nothing particularly was horrifyingly scary but the atmosphere and the characters somehow make it like that Iwas inside that world. To my surprise years later considering there was no internet or nothing to know that it exist, in a far arcade in outer city have the sequel. I only have few chances of playing it. Character select and Lei Lei's stage was memorable. Not as scary but rather exciting. I chose Lei Lei always. One day I find Ps1 copy fo Darkstalkers 3 and played it to death. I remember the bus ride home it was the longest. I was trying to figure out who was who and who was new in the back cover artwork. When I arrive home I

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


You know, this was the game/series I wanted to bring up as our next topic! Well It started one day going to some random pizza place. I noticed an arcade cabinet with the label CAPCOM. So I was excited and went to check it out. It was a game I never heard and seen of. I remember what stood out and made me think "what in the world is this," was Lord Raptor. He was one scary dude and his model looked very detailed and creative. So I was standing there at the cabinet for about 5 minutes looking to see if I am even capable of playing this game. I thought Primal Rage was crazy (that was my other Classic FG I wanted to bring up) but this one got it in the bag.

Since that day, I wanted to get my hands on Darkstalkers. After my research, I got a copy of Night Warriors for the Saturn. I must say, I was so happy to have had this game and it was worth every minute and time. I made sure I used the honor system to explore every character and its endings without continuing after losing. Colors, music, supers, and story was amazing! The wildest character was Anakaris. The coolest stage was Talbain. The best BGM was Bishamon. The funny thing about Darkstalkers is that, it was not as graphic as you would think based on its horror presentation like many mature/controversy games at the time. I made sure Night Warriors last for a long time.

Darkstalkers 3 came out at the arcades. After a year, It was time for me to decide whether to buy it on the Saturn. It was a debate on either Vampire Savior or Pocket Fighter. It was either a new obscure game or a game played before but better. Walking almost a couple of miles to Starland thinking, I opted for Pocket Fighter. My friend had Darkstalkers 3 on the PS but it was not the same.

Vampire Savior had a much deeper tone to it. The new characters we very cynical and ironic. The game felt better when trying them. The returning ones felt a bit the same with no changes. B.B. Hood was by far my favorite with that sadistic look. Her BGM was like my ring tone for my brain!

By this time, It was buying Vampire Savior on Saturn for collection purposes. Never got the chance to. I am glad to have had the opportunity to play Night Warriors. CAPCOM made a very good franchise out of it without copying or mimicking many other FG's at the time. It did and still does hold on its own as a unique fighter that deserves to be revived or continued in the future.





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"Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Thu 5 May 18:18post reply

I've never been able to play any of the games in the Vampire series against a human opponent so I can only say that the graphics in each one of the games have always blown me away even though I've been taking a serious beating from the CPU.

My background in fighting games comes from Street Fighter II and the Zero series, where I learned to appreciate the small new additions in each game as Capcom was pretty damn stingy with creating entirely new graphical content for their games. So.. I remember the first time I saw Jedah in action. When he grabbed his opponent and made their head burst I realised that 1) they had created separate graphics for each character just for that move, and 2) this is from the same company that makes Street Fighter.

I was in awe -- and I was confused. And I still am.





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"Re(1):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Thu 5 May 19:39post reply

Some people want to play a complete edition of 3rd strike with backgrounds and musics from Second Impact.
I want to play a complete edition of Vampire Savior with all the animation frames from Hunter put back in. And the background as well actually.

quote:
I remember the first time I saw Jedah in action. When he grabbed his opponent and made their head burst I realised that 1) they had created separate graphics for each character just for that move, and 2) this is from the same company that makes Street Fighter.



On the top of my head, such special damage animations have been created for...
* Dimitri's midnight bliss, of course (also used by Anakaris).
* Electric damage from Victor (also used in various electric moves).
* Zabel's baseball for Hell Dunk.
* Anakaris' curse.
* A couple of characters have a special animation for Bishamon's old school torture/Edo interrogation technique.
* Most characters also have a special animation when Bishamon orders them to cut their own throat.
* All characters have a special "Fatality" animation when Bishamon kills them with his special OTG.
* Gallon's close range ES where he slices the opponent in half vertically.
* Most characters have a special face when Felicia climbs on their head.
* Lilith Dancing (at least the beginning).
* Q-Bee's extreme stinging.
* Jedah's blood injection (and the blood gets stocked in a different part of the body for each character: hands for Dimitri, nose for Squatch, wings for Morrigan... I always love that Buletta was stocking the blood in her mouth for some reason).
* Jedah's contract (actually a recolor of the falling animation).

I'm probably forgetting a few, and then you have all the other shared special damage animations: burned, strong OTG...
This game is such a joy to watch.





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"Re(2):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Thu 5 May 20:22post reply

quote:
Some people want to play a complete edition of 3rd strike with backgrounds and musics from Second Impact.
I want to play a complete edition of Vampire Savior with all the animation frames from Hunter put back in. And the background as well actually.

I remember the first time I saw Jedah in action. When he grabbed his opponent and made their head burst I realised that 1) they had created separate graphics for each character just for that move, and 2) this is from the same company that makes Street Fighter.


On the top of my head, such special damage animations have been created for...
* Dimitri's midnight bliss, of course (also used by Anakaris).
* Electric damage from Victor (also used in various electric moves).
* Zabel's baseball for Hell Dunk.
* Anakaris' curse.
* A couple of characters have a special animation for Bishamon's old school torture/Edo interrogation technique.
* Most characters also have a special animation when Bishamon orders them to cut their own throat.
* All characters have a special "Fatality" animation when Bishamon kills them with his special OTG.
* Gallon's close range ES where he slices the opponent in half vertically.
* Most characters have a special face when Felicia climbs on their head.
* Lilith Dancing (at least the beginning).
* Q-Bee's extreme stinging.
* Jedah's blood injection (and the blood gets stocked in a different part of the body for each character: hands for Dimitri, nose for Squatch, wings for Morrigan... I always

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
You forgot when they burn everyone has differrent type of animation.





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"Re(3):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Thu 5 May 22:30post reply

quote:
Some people want to play a complete edition of 3rd strike with backgrounds and musics from Second Impact.
I want to play a complete edition of Vampire Savior with all the animation frames from Hunter put back in. And the background as well actually.

I remember the first time I saw Jedah in action. When he grabbed his opponent and made their head burst I realised that 1) they had created separate graphics for each character just for that move, and 2) this is from the same company that makes Street Fighter.


On the top of my head, such special damage animations have been created for...
* Dimitri's midnight bliss, of course (also used by Anakaris).
* Electric damage from Victor (also used in various electric moves).
* Zabel's baseball for Hell Dunk.
* Anakaris' curse.
* A couple of characters have a special animation for Bishamon's old school torture/Edo interrogation technique.
* Most characters also have a special animation when Bishamon orders them to cut their own throat.
* All characters have a special "Fatality" animation when Bishamon kills them with his special OTG.
* Gallon's close range ES where he slices the opponent in half vertically.
* Most characters have a special face when Felicia climbs on their head.
* Lilith Dancing (at least the beginning).
* Q-Bee's extreme stinging.
* Jedah's blood injection (and the blood gets stocked in a different part of the body for each character: hands for Dimitri, nose for Squatch, wings for Morrigan... I always

[/U

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


I vividly remember the first time I saw Darkstalkers. I was in Middle school. I was hanging out with a good friend after school when his older sister (who was a super cool mature High Schooler who taught us about cool bands like The Pixies and cool trashy European exploitation films like Vampyros Lesbos) came in and told us "You gotta see this new game at the Skyline Mall arcade. It's like Street Fighter, but with vampires and werewolves and Frankensteins. It's the coolest thing ever!"

We rushed to the arcade. Upon first glance, Darkstalkers was immediately the most beautiful game I'd ever seen. It still is! The animation, the character designs, the way it just absolutely oozed with personality. It blew my mind!

I love the entire cast so much. I used to draw all the characters all the time. They were all such fresh, original, yet incredibly iconic takes on classic monsters. I can't praise them enough. And the way they were drawn was incredible too.

I'd always liked Street Fighter, but Dark Stalkers was clearly on another level. By the time SF2 Championship Edition came out, I felt that the promotional illustrations had clearly outpaced the actual in-game graphics. With Darkstalkers, the sprites finally matched the quality of the concept art. Bengus in motion was an incredible thing to behold. It's one of the first games I can recall that clearly had feature film quality animation. I love it so much!

I have to admit though, I never actually got very good at Darkstalkers. I never had many people to play it with. I think I spent more time just watching the animations in practice mode and drawing the characters than playing it against other live humans. I love watching tournament videos for it though. At a high level the game looks so aggressive. I love the pace of it. There's a back and fourth quality to it. The matches don't feel like people taking turns comboing each other, they feel like two animals mauling each other to death unrelentingly.






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"Re(4):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Fri 6 May 00:16post reply

One of the many, many things I love about the Vampire series is how it deals with the one-two punch of sex and violence. Fighting games often have an unintended intimate quality to them that comes from two characters intensely interacting in a confined area. This can create some odd situations such as poor attempts at attractiveness in Mortal Kombat or the waifu wrestling of Dead or Alive. The Vampire games, however, were the first to fully embrace this dichotomy. Vampire Savior is the only game I can think of that could feature people having sex in the background and let you ride a locomotive straight into a giant womb. It's not surprising that Demitri -who is a standard fighting game character decked out in an ill-fitting suit- was replaced as the poster character by an openly sexual being like Morrigan. The Vampire games are aggressive, erotic but always playful in its actions and interactions. That's quite a mix.





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"Re(2):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Fri 6 May 02:07post reply

quote:
You forgot when they burn everyone has differrent type of animation.
I did not!
quote:
and then you have all the other shared special damage animations: burned, strong OTG...

Plus, I was listing specific animations to a move, which is and always was something crazy to do: creating such moves means you have to draw specific frames for all characters just for this move, and the more new characters you create the more expensive each one becomes just because some clever guy in the first game created these personalized hit animations.
Guilty Gear also has plenty of those (and they are great, most of the time) but they are the bottom of a joke in a cinematic super (LOL, he put his fingers up his butt). What made Vampire special was that they were very discrete, happened naturally during the course of the fight and never drew attention to how fantastic that tiny little detail you barely registered actually was. Elegance does not pay.

That's also why Vampire characters tend to stay in their games, because they either make everyone more expensive (though it can be fun, i.e. the Midnight Bliss galleries) or they get neutered and get lame, like Anakaris in MvC2.
Morrigan, Leilei and Felicia are so far the only Vampire characters that made it to the 3D World, and while them being girls make them more visible, I'm sure the main draw was "and none of them would lose any iconic move with a special animation".

Vampire was the ubris that paved the way to the fantastic but economically unwise SF3.





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"Re(3):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Fri 6 May 05:43post reply

I've especially enjoyed reading about unused stuff in the Vampire series on this site.





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"Re(2):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Fri 6 May 08:27post reply

quote:
Some people want to play a complete edition of 3rd strike with backgrounds and musics from Second Impact.
I want to play a complete edition of Vampire Savior with all the animation frames from Hunter put back in. And the background as well actually.



That would be quite cool! If it also had the music of BOTH Hunter and Savior, that would be amazing!

One thing that could also be nice (but I doubt Capcom would ever do that) would be to release a Darkstalkers RPG game, similar to the Samurai Shodown one. It could even have two chapters as well, one focused on the Hunter plot (with Pyron as the main villain) and the other focused on the Savior plot (with Jedah as the main threat). I wouldn't even complain if Capcom re-used all the old sprites instead of creating new sprites or 3D models...





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"Re(1):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Fri 6 May 08:48post reply

I recall my surprise at finding the game at the arcade back in the game - the finer points of its craftsmanship weren't that obvious to me at the time, but I always enjoyed looking at Raptor/Zabel's stance animation, not to mention other things like his chainsaw kick and electric intro - it was almost sad to see what an asshole he was in the story, which the game didn't shed that much light on outside the endings.

I recall reading that the team of originals from MvC2, Son-son, Ruby Heart and Amingo, were originally meant for a new Vampire game that never happened, which may be backed up by the fact that game had an animation for Felicia in a nun suit that wasn't in her source games.
I could see Son-Son fitting in as another nod to Chinese mythology, but a pirate and a cactus plantoid seem like weirder fits... then again, by Vampire Savior the stricter monster archtype thing was already cracking quite a bit, since BB Hood and Jedah aren't exactly walking references to monster movies like the rest. Alas, they didn't even get to return for MvC3. Maybe if there's a Project X Zone 3 then ruby heart will come back and tie in to Vampire lore a bit more, after their word with Ingrid in PXZ2 I have faith in their abilities.

On the topic of custom animations like Midnight bliss, despite issues with Cross Edge I'm amazed that they bothered to include Demitri as a playable character with that super, which meant giving MB sprites to several trash mobs and boss/playable characters, since an RPG with a tactical component tends to have a bigger cast to work with.





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"Re(4):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Fri 6 May 09:11post reply

Other than the ones Iggy mentioned I believe there was also the Big Swing specific to Sasquatch with damage poses unused by anyone else, and Bulleta/B. B. Hood's Apple For You.

quote:
I've especially enjoyed reading about unused stuff in the Vampire series on this site.



Thanks for sharing, that's some interesting stuff. Makes me want to fire up an emulator and try out some of those debug animation viewer codes.

I think my favorite tidbit so far is in the Night Warriors section:


Dhylec Surfboard
Surf's Up!

Donovan's spriteset contains an unused animation of his sword Dhylec becoming a surfboard. According to a developer interview in "All About Vampire Hunter", they floated the idea of having Donovan surf when confronted with Rikuo's Sea Rage (an EX move which launches a tidal wave at the opponent).



Applied to any other game it might have sounded ridiculous but this is so very characteristic of the series.





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"Re(3):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Fri 6 May 12:06post reply

quote:
Some people want to play a complete edition of 3rd strike with backgrounds and musics from Second Impact.
I want to play a complete edition of Vampire Savior with all the animation frames from Hunter put back in. And the background as well actually.


That would be quite cool! If it also had the music of BOTH Hunter and Savior, that would be amazing!

One thing that could also be nice (but I doubt Capcom would ever do that) would be to release a Darkstalkers RPG game, similar to the Samurai Shodown one. It could even have two chapters as well, one focused on the Hunter plot (with Pyron as the main villain) and the other focused on the Savior plot (with Jedah as the main threat). I wouldn't even complain if Capcom re-used all the old sprites instead of creating new sprites or 3D models...


On that topic and one I forgot to mention, the Saturn version of vampire hunter/night warriors allowed you to also use the BGM from the first game as well. I think the colors of the characters from the first game was in there to. There was actually these dark tone colors that the cpu used for the characters on arcade mode that was not selectable for the player on hand. That was odd but those colors were very cool. It was mostly a dark color with black to give it a evil theme look.





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"Re(4):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Fri 6 May 21:34:post reply

quote:
On that topic and one I forgot to mention, the Saturn version of vampire hunter/night warriors allowed you to also use the BGM from the first game as well. I think the colors of the characters from the first game was in there to. There was actually these dark tone colors that the cpu used for the characters on arcade mode that was not selectable for the player on hand. That was odd but those colors were very cool. It was mostly a dark color with black to give it a evil theme look.



I never understood why Capcom decided to change the colors of the characters and stages from the first game in Vampire Hunter/Night Warriors (even though they had already done it before in SFII Hyper Fighting and SSFIIX)... such a weird decision. Especially because they would still appear with their original colors in their endings, anyway.

In fact, Vampire Hunter/Night Warrior is quite weird (not in a bad way, of course) in itself: it's hard to define whether it is an upgrade of Vampire/Darkstalkers (as it has the same stages, sprites, plots and endings from the original game) or an actual sequel (considering the huge changes in the game system, the brand-new soundtrack - which was MUCH better than the original one, in my opinion - and the lots of special and super moves).

Whatever it is, though, it is really good. I have fond memories of the many hours I spent playing it in the arcades or simply watching other people playing it (although my parents' memories of the money I spent in it are probably not so fond...).





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"Re(4):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Sat 7 May 05:38post reply

quote:
Some people want to play a complete edition of 3rd strike with backgrounds and musics from Second Impact.
I want to play a complete edition of Vampire Savior with all the animation frames from Hunter put back in. And the background as well actually.


That would be quite cool! If it also had the music of BOTH Hunter and Savior, that would be amazing!




As the avid Vampire Hunter fan I am, I'd gladly give my left testicle for such a compilation! I spent so many afternoons playing the Saturn version against my friends on my teenage years that I can't understand those times without it. Playing the game, thinking about it, creating fan art of the characters... at one point I even attempted to wite a fanfic centered on Donovan's weird relationship with Anita! Vampire Hunter is still my favorite entry on the series and became an obsession that stayed with me for some years, but damn, was it worthwhile!!

As NeOrOchiaku points out, the Saturn port of Vampire Hunter had some nice, albeit obscure additions: by way of a hidden menu (at least in the PAL version I owned), not only does it allow you to enable the original Vampire/ Darkstalkers soundtrack and character palettes, but also the original stage backgrounds! Moreover, the CD-rom contained the roster's complete spritesheet, altough, due to RAM restrictions (IIRC the game was released before the advent of 1MB and 4MB Extended RAM Cartdriges), it was put to full use only during mirror matches.

Thanks LegenOaryninlia for the link to that discarded stuff website! It was very illustrative and made for a great, Darkstalkeresque nostalgia trip!





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"Re(5):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Wed 11 May 00:02post reply

Darkstalkers is a game that blalantly showed me plenty of my own ignorances and shoved them unto my face; and me being young and restless by that time, I was obviously too foolish at to realize what I was doing wrong and why was my head filled with nothing but birds (mainly ostriches)...... At least I got there eventually, and learned to better appreciate the series while in it's arcade cabinet life.

My city never had a Vampire Hunter machine, so I jumped from years of Dark Stallkers to Vampire Saviour in one go.



Oh, and if you are interested in a youtube exclusive Vampire channel that still has constant activity, I can only recommend this place; the owner is a pretty cool dude.






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"Re(6):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Wed 11 May 00:41:post reply

quote:
My city never had a Vampire Hunter machine, so I jumped from years of Dark Stallkers to Vampire Savior in one go.



My experience was quite different: Vampire Hunter was the first machine from the franchise in my city for years (or so I thought back then). Only years later I found a Vampire machine in an obscure arcade place, and I was a little disappointed by it, not because it had fewer characters, but because the music and the gameplay just didn't feel as enjoyable as in the other games.

Maybe that's why I see Vampire Hunter less as an actual sequel and more as a much needed upgrade of the first game (...well, besides the already pointed out fact that VH reused the same stages and endings from the original game).

As for Vampire Savior, the new characters looked great and I loved the Dark Force implementation, but I didn't like the new stages and music as much as the Vampire Hunter ones (they were still great, though, and the credits roll music is incredibly beautiful), nor I liked the adoption of two life bars instead of the three-round system (which is weird, because Killer Instinct has the same system and I love it). But even though I prefer VH, I still had lots of fun with VS.

(...it's weird to use these names for these games, as the arcade cabinets here used their Western names)





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"Re(7):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Sat 21 May 02:34:post reply

I hope it's not a problem to post here twice in a row, but these past days I just had some more random thoughts about the Vampire/Darkstalkers series:

- I remember that when Darkstalkers Resurrection was announced, many people complained that instead of just re-releasing the Arcade versions of VH and VS, Capcom should just release the Dreamcast version of VS (which had all characters and the possibility of choosing the mechanics and movelists from either Vampire, VH, VS or VS2/VH2. While that could have been cool, that version missed individual endings, only had the VS2 stages (which were the VS1 stages with different colors), and it seems that it had its share of glitches and problems with hitboxes. So, in the end, Capcom probably made the right choice (...well, not counting the "make a brand-new Darkstalkers game" option, of course). I wouldn't complain if Capcom at least returned every character (other than Donovan and Hsien-Ko) and their stages in VH to their original colors, though.

- Still about the games collected in Resurrection, searching other game forums, I found out that while a good majority of players seem to consider VS the better game, there is also a considerable number of players that prefer VH. It's interesting how they do feel very different from each other (even though characters in both games have the same sprites), each one with its own advantages.

- Another fascinating thing in Darkstalkers is how it has such a rich plot... and how the vast majority of it is just NOT SHOWN IN THE GAMES THEMSELVES. No wonder some people believe the games just show a fighting tournament among monsters and would have no idea of why Demitri hates Morrigan, what the heck is the relation between Morrigan and Lilith (I've seen game reviewers mentioning they're sisters), etc. I've even seen people thinking Donovan and B.B.Hood as Darkstalker-hunting allies because they're featured in an official artwork...

- ...and speaking of B.B.Hood, one of my favorite characters in this franchise (and definitely one of the most underappreciated ones) isn't even playable: it's her cute puppy, Harry! How adorable is he, following her, getting scared when she freaks out, and apparently being electrocuted by an invisible force whenever she's knocked out? It's a shame that whoever did the art for Darkstalkers Resurrection (which I think it's gorgeous, by the way) remembered to put Anita in Donovan's art but forgot to put Harry in B.B.Hood's (when both of them do the same thing: follow their partners - and Harry actually reacts to the fight, unlike Anita)... oh well, at least he can brag that, unlike most of the DS cast, he got to appear in Marvel vs. Capcom 2.

...Well, I guess that's it for now. Sorry for all the useless nonsense I just wrote, but hopefully there is something in there that can keep the discussions continuing in this topic.

---

EDIT: oh yes, one more thing. Capcom is frequently accused of being lazy with their games (and let's be honest, the accusations are frequently deserved), but I think they did a great job with Lilith. The first time I saw her (in a screenshot in a videogame magazine), I thought she'd be just a head swap of Morrigan, but Capcom actually gave her a lot of major and minor differences, from the size of her chest to her walking animations, the way her wings protect her when she's blocking (they get a different shape than Morrigan's when she's blocking), and how her moves (both normal and special) not only have different properties, but also different animations (for instance, even though there's little difference in the damage and reach of Lilith's Shining Blade or Luminous Illusion in comparison to Morrigan's Shadow Blade and Darkness Illusion, she still got her own animations for these moves).





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[this message was edited by Just a Person on Sat 21 May 03:01]

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"Re(8):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Sat 21 May 03:07post reply

quote:
what the heck is the relation between Morrigan and Lilith (I've seen game reviewers mentioning they're sisters), etc.
I read somewhere that Morrigan's father split her into three pieces. Lilith is the second piece. (And they first think a male character but then they switched it to Lilith. Grateful for Lilith but cant stop wondering how would be if the third piece was a male. I wish to see it, though Im not sure it would be good with current Capcom.

Next Darkstalkers when! T_T





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"Re(8):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Sat 21 May 03:34post reply

quote:
I hope it's not a problem to post here twice in a row, but these past days I just had some more random thoughts about the Vampire/Darkstalkers series:

- I remember that when Darkstalkers Resurrection was announced, many people complained that instead of just re-releasing the Arcade versions of VH and VS, Capcom should just release the Dreamcast version of VS (which had all characters and the possibility of choosing the mechanics and movelists from either Vampire, VH, VS or VS2/VH2. While that could have been cool, that version missed individual endings, only had the VS2 stages (which were the VS1 stages with different colors), and it seems that it had its share of glitches and problems with hitboxes. So, in the end, Capcom probably made the right choice (...well, not counting the "make a brand-new Darkstalkers game" option, of course). I wouldn't complain if Capcom at least returned every character (other than Donovan and Hsien-Ko) and their stages in VH to their original colors, though.

- Still about the games collected in Resurrection, searching other game forums, I found out that while a good majority of players seem to consider VS the better game, there is also a considerable number of players that prefer VH. It's interesting how they do feel very different from each other (even though characters in both games have the same sprites), each one with its own advantages.

- Another fascinating thing in Darkstalkers is how it has such a rich plot... and how the vast

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


Great write-up. I completely forgot the Dreamcast version had those options. The DC version was made solely for online battle matches so I can see why the stages, colors, endings, etc. were not worked on. I was actually hoping resurrection would have been a HD remake of some sort. Once again, its sole purpose was for online play.

I do prefer the VH for all the essentials the game gave. VS was a better version of VH gameplay wise in my opinion. That is probably why the fan base is split. Story, stages, music was better in VH. Gameplay was better in VS.

Baby Bonnie Hood aka B.B. Hood aka Bulleta, who can not like her? She is one of the best. I mean, the person who created the concept of her deserves a Grammy. Anita deserves to be in a fighting game! She was only feature as a playable character in puzzle fighter. That alone teased me even more to see her more in a fighting game. She can really be amazing if done right.

Darkstalkers is one of the few games with no head swaps indeed. They could have easily made over 50 characters but kept it original. Man, I really want a new one here as well. If they crossover with another company/game, It would be Darkstalkers vs. Guilty Gear. At least, that is what I thought back in 2000 :D





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"Re(9):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Sat 21 May 08:51:post reply

quote:
- Another fascinating thing in Darkstalkers is how it has such a rich plot...


I get the impression it's more a matter of rich backstory for individual characters (ex.: the recent family history of the Aenslands) and aspects of their lives (the mandates of king anakaris, or BB Hood's professional practices), but very little that involves interactions between the characters in the actual games, which makes it so that any adaptations struggle to find anything for characters other than Morrigan, Demitri, Pyron, Donovan, Lillith and Jedah to do that has any consequence/relevance.

quote:
Anita deserves to be in a fighting game! She was only feature as a playable character in puzzle fighter. That alone teased me even more to see her more in a fighting game. She can really be amazing if done right.


She did get that appearance in the home version of marvel Super Heroes, using a smaller version of Donovan's sword. Between that and her MvC1 assist attack there's enough material for the Project X Zone team to get her some use if they're ever inclined... and after bothering with Ingrid and doing more to reference DS lore more than the DS games do, I figure they're qualified to handle the task. Heck, after the June/Black Hayato thing in PXZ2, I could imagine them tackling older Anita as a playable/assist and Dee as a tormented antagonist...





...!!

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"Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Vampire" , posted Sun 22 May 05:39post reply

quote:
heck, after the June/Black Hayato thing in PXZ2, I could imagine them tackling older Anita as a playable/assist and Dee as a tormented antagonist...


YES!!!
That's a brilliant idea!
Especially if Bayonetta gets to intervene. Oh the possibilities...
Do we have the sales data of the game in the US? I hope that was enough to make a sequel... and that we won't have to wait until 2018.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Sun 22 May 07:44post reply

quote:
heck, after the June/Black Hayato thing in PXZ2, I could imagine them tackling older Anita as a playable/assist and Dee as a tormented antagonist...

YES!!!
That's a brilliant idea!
Especially if Bayonetta gets to intervene. Oh the possibilities...
Do we have the sales data of the game in the US? I hope that was enough to make a sequel... and that we won't have to wait until 2018.

And add SNK





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"Re(3):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Mon 23 May 04:26post reply

So what's up next week? Star Gladiator? Fighter's History? Hmmm..?





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"Re(4):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Tue 24 May 07:54post reply

quote:
So what's up next week? Star Gladiator? Fighter's History? Hmmm..?

Related to the interviews of that other thread: in part 3 of Itsuno's interview, the interviewer jumps from Zero 2 to Justice Gakuen.
Itsuno interrupts: "Wait! We haven't talked about Star Gladiator!"
- OK, ok, you can talk about Star Gladiator.
- So, we had issues with the character called Rimgal for this and that reason, and...
- That's so very interesting now tell me about Justice Gakuen I want to know everything about Justice Gakuen.

Does anyone actually like Star Gladiator?





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"Re(5):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Tue 24 May 08:58post reply

quote:
Does anyone actually like Star Gladiator?

Star Gladiator might be worth discussing since the series tries to do many different things but still ends up being total junk.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Tue 24 May 13:29post reply

quote:

Does anyone actually like Star Gladiator?



At least here locally; there it were many people who tried to jump at the wagon and play Soul Calibur or Tekken but got mercilessly massacrated time and time again, many never even tried to learn the moves and went at by button smashin'. I noticed that among that crew of people; Star Gladiator was amazingly popular as a 1p experience with them being able to clear the game and no one beating them up for it, some players even learned how to clear it with every character (these very same players ended up playing Dead or Alive later, for obvious reasons).

Not sure how it worked on the large scale of things, but one should have to watch at the actual situation of that time releases wise to judge the game success? I mean, if it got a sequel; it can't be popularity zero.... It would have been another Capcom fighting all stars otherwise.


..... I have never seen a tournament for either of the two Star Gladiator games, btw.






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"Re(5):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Tue 24 May 14:19post reply

quote:
- OK, ok, you can talk about Star Gladiator.
- So, we had issues with the character called Rimgal for this and that reason, and...
- That's so very interesting now tell me about Justice Gakuen I want to know everything about Justice Gakuen.

Gahaha, while this is entirely sensible on the part of the interviewer, I sure would like to hear people's Star Gladiator stories. I remember being baffled by the sight of it in the ads. There was that lady in pink (but not Pink Lady)...

Star Gladiator partisans are going to have to move fast or risk having their conversation get overrun, though: Maese and I recently had the joy of playing Moero! Justice Gakuen in the arcades, and there's no getting it out of my mind once it's started. 「人の道を教えてやる!無双正拳突き!!」





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"Re(5):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Tue 24 May 16:00post reply

quote:
So what's up next week? Star Gladiator? Fighter's History? Hmmm..?
Related to the interviews of that other thread: in part 3 of Itsuno's interview, the interviewer jumps from Zero 2 to Justice Gakuen.
Itsuno interrupts: "Wait! We haven't talked about Star Gladiator!"
- OK, ok, you can talk about Star Gladiator.
- So, we had issues with the character called Rimgal for this and that reason, and...
- That's so very interesting now tell me about Justice Gakuen I want to know everything about Justice Gakuen.

Does anyone actually like Star Gladiator?

I actually liked the headswap the fighting game. I like the idea each character having either a this is so smooth orwhatin the world how is this possible experience from playing the characters.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Tue 24 May 16:43post reply

quote:
- OK, ok, you can talk about Star Gladiator.
- So, we had issues with the character called Rimgal for this and that reason, and...
- That's so very interesting now tell me about Justice Gakuen I want to know everything about Justice Gakuen.
Gahaha, while this is entirely sensible on the part of the interviewer, I sure would like to hear people's Star Gladiator stories. I remember being baffled by the sight of it in the ads. There was that lady in pink (but not Pink Lady)...

Star Gladiator partisans are going to have to move fast or risk having their conversation get overrun, though: Maese and I recently had the joy of playing Moero! Justice Gakuen in the arcades, and there's no getting it out of my mind once it's started. 「人の道を教えてやる!無双正拳突き!!」



Actually I was playing with a Dreamcast gamepad, so I wonder if that really counts as "playing in the arcades", ha ha.

I for one know at least of one board member that likes Star Gladiator with a passion, so in deferebce for him I'll hold my breath for a while until he makes his appearance and illuminates us with his vast knowledge on the subject. I'm summoning you, Hayato!

But, in any case, I fully agree that Justice Gakuen is one of the finest themes of conversation an accomplished gentleman can hope for. That should be our next weekly game of choice for sure!






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"Re(5):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Tue 24 May 17:38post reply

quote:
Does anyone actually like Star Gladiator?



Wasn't Star Gladiator originally meant to be a Star Wars fighting game until Capcom failed to secure the license?
With a history like that, I wouldn't be surprised if even the folks at Capcom were disappointed about what the game became when compared to what it was originally meant to be...





...!!

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"Re(5):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Tue 24 May 21:50post reply

According to the interview, one of the main goals of Justice Gakuen was to make a 60 FPS game, compared to Star Gladiator's 30 (because of the many visual effects). I wonder if that's why the game always felt so sluggish? Was it fixed in the sequel?

After all the Justice Gakuen talk, the interviewer finishes with something among the lines of "well, we're at the end of the interview. Too bad we didn't have the time to talk about other projects you worked on, such as Power Stone or Capcom vs SNK, but, well, Justice Gakuen was more important than those, right?"
Right.
You did well, sir.
And if anyone wanted to hear more about PS or CvS, blame Star Gladiator for taking too much space.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Tue 24 May 23:47post reply

quote:
Wasn't Star Gladiator originally meant to be a Star Wars fighting game until Capcom failed to secure the license?
With a history like that, I wouldn't be surprised if even the folks at Capcom were disappointed about what the game became when compared to what it was originally meant to be...

I didn't know that but it makes sense since the style of a lot of the characters match up pretty well with their Star Wars inspirations. That said, I can't guess what SW character that yo-yo guy came from.

A few random thoughts about Star Gladiators:

SG felt like Capcom's attempt at creating a new 3D fighting game engine. The mixture of vertical and horizontal slashes that made up the combos was a curious way to get past straight button mashing. Thing is, the counter system was also really strong and could easily shut down any combo as soon as you recognized the attack string. I'm not certain how you were supposed to mount an offense in SG.

There was a robot in the game that would grunt out "Contained!" or something when he won. His voice was so heavily synthesized and difficult to understand that I liked to pretend he was actually saying "Coltrane!" because in addition to be a mechanized killer he was a huge jazz fan.

The sequel Plasma Sword ditched everything that was original about the first game engine and just went with standard special move inputs. I guess even the people making the game couldn't figure out how to do anything with the ideas that were attempted in SG.

PS is also notable for featuring Namco levels of character cloning. Oh, and in the arcade version there was a PlayStation logo in one of the backgrounds but the console release came out on the Dreamcast. This series could never catch a break.





nobinobita
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"Re(6):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Wed 25 May 01:18:post reply

quote:
Does anyone actually like Star Gladiator?


Wasn't Star Gladiator originally meant to be a Star Wars fighting game until Capcom failed to secure the license?
With a history like that, I wouldn't be surprised if even the folks at Capcom were disappointed about what the game became when compared to what it was originally meant to be...



I remember having a ton of fun playing Star Gladiator after school. I don't remember the mechanics that well, but I do remember the awesome cast. I'm glad they didn't do a Star Wars game cos it freed them to go all out and make their own insane take on Star Wars.

The game has one of my favourite casts of characters ever. Up there with Street Fighter and Samurai Shodown. I think the characters would get more love if the gameplay also aged well.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Star Gladiator must have influenced Overwatch on some level. I mean obviously Capcom in general influenced that game, with Arnold Tseng being one of the most talented artists to come out of Udon. But if I had to pick a single Capcom game that Overwatch feels the closest to, it would definitely be Star Gladiator (followed by Powerstone).

I wanna go on a long tirade about how much I love that cast, but I got a long night of work ahead of me!

Instead I'll comment on this:

quote:
That said, I can't guess what SW character that yo-yo guy came from.


I'm 90% certain that Saturn (green cone headed yo yo circus alien fighter) was based off of an old 3 foot tall American robot alien toy named Big Loo.

Saturn
Big Loo

Here's a black and white commercial of Big Loo in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhH0MW44d78

The resemblance is uncanny. The green cone head. The scary toothy grin with the exact same mouth shape. The beady eyes. The shirtless neck shawl thing. The color scheme etc. I think it's too many similarities to be coincidence. Maybe Akiman saw Big Loo in a toy catalog or toy museum (Japan has always been a top producer of tin robot toys, so there are some serious collectors over there).

Anyway, I love Star Gladiator. The game itself is fun, if not exceptional. But that cast is fuckin RAD!

Bonus:
Just got to talking with some friends bout Star Gladiator. I now realise that this would be my dream game:
https://twitter.com/gorotorogames/status/735156356118765568






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Wed 25 May 02:15]

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"Re(7):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Wed 25 May 02:42post reply

quote:
cos


I'm 90% sure you are posting this from your smartphone and if your smartphone is permitting this instead of autocorrecting it then you are what's wrong with today's youth!

quote:
Bonus:
Just got to talking with some friends bout Star Gladiator. I now realise that this would be my dream game:
https://twitter.com/gorotorogames/status/735156356118765568


... but the background in that picture is from CvS

quote:
Star Gladiator


It's certainly one of the Capcom games to contain the combination of large sci-fi cast where each character has very strongly differentiated cultural elements with relatively few shared qualities. Capcom themselves haven't done that many original character games with that characteristic! ... maybe if you count the Vs. series games....

Overwatch is a game that I think I would like more if I weren't so burnt out in general with pure FPS, a feeling that has lasted for literally several years.





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"Re:Weekly classic fighting game: Star Gladiat" , posted Wed 25 May 02:57:post reply

quote:
Does anyone actually like Star Gladiator?


Wasn't Star Gladiator originally meant to be a Star Wars fighting game until Capcom failed to secure the license?
With a history like that, I wouldn't be surprised if even the folks at Capcom were disappointed about what the game became when compared to what it was originally meant to be...



I can see the being true since originally the Darkstalkers game was suppose to be a Universal Studios Old Movie Horror Monsters game. Capcom could not get the licensing so out came Darkstalkers.

I never played SG but did get some time on Plasma Sword. No memorable experience to talk about here.

quote:
After all the Justice Gakuen talk, the interviewer finishes with something among the lines of "well, we're at the end of the interview. Too bad we didn't have the time to talk about other projects you worked on, such as Power Stone or Capcom vs SNK, but, well, Justice Gakuen was more important than those, right?"
Right.
You did well, sir.
And if anyone wanted to hear more about PS or CvS, blame Star Gladiator for taking too much space.



Talking about Justice Gakuen on any subject is a thread in itself on the café! :)





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[this message was edited by neo0r0chiaku on Wed 25 May 02:58]

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"Re(7):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Wed 25 May 03:00post reply

quote:
Bonus:
Just got to talking with some friends bout Star Gladiator. I now realise that this would be my dream game:
https://twitter.com/gorotorogames/status/735156356118765568
I remember an old interview in Gamest with people from all the fighting game companies at the time, where the topic was "so, what's next after Capcom vs SNK" and the answer from the employees of three companies was "how about we make Star Gladiator vs Samurai Spirits vs Soulcalibur?".

How about, indeed.





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"Re(8):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Va" , posted Wed 25 May 06:25post reply

Fuck Justice Gakuen. Ahem.

I enjoy the first Star Gladiator mainly as a single player experience. It's nothing special in competitive play, but because the character designs and the soundtrack is so awesome I enjoy it. I do not enjoy Justice Gakuen.

Star Gladiator 2 , as the game should be called, on the other hand is crazy fun. I like the game so much that I have the arcade board and all the movestrips etc for it.

I'll post later about my personal experiences with the SG games when I have the time.

I'll leave you with an important announcement: Fuck Justice Gakuen. Really.





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"Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sword" , posted Wed 25 May 08:00post reply

Wow, a serious discussion about Star Gladiator among fellow Cafers? And... not only do they go easy on the series, but some even praise it!! I never thought I'd live enough to see this day...


As Maese pointed out before, I've always been a huge fan of the franchise (so huge, in fact, that I borrowed the name of the main character for my online persona). Despite that, it's been literally ages since I played both the original Star Gladiator and its sequel Plasma Sword, but its iconic cast of characters and bizarre, space-opera-gone-wrong universe still linger in my mind as vividly as they did decades ago.

Granted, both games have aged poorly: their low-poly models can be pretty painful to watch under today's standards (it's been almost 20 years since SG's release, anyway) and game mechanics weren't anything to write home about (floaty jumps, counterintuitive special move commands, weird collision detection...). But what the series lacked in playability, it more than made up for in originality, thanks to Akiman's colorul character desing (June, Zelkin, Saturn and Bilstein looked really original to me back then), the outlandish, but somehow familiar atmosphere that permeates the series (first time I saw SG in action I couldn't believe it was a Capcom game... until I tried it, that is) and their wonderful soundtrack (with such an assorted array of both moody and energetic pieces coming in the end of Capcom's golden era).

In a sense, SG/PS may be one of the most original Capcom series ever made, second only to Darkstalkers and Rival Schools, and the closest thing to a 3D Vampire game we'll ever have: Plasma Sword's "Plasma Field" mechanic was similar to Vampire Savior's "Dark Force", there also were head stomps, akin to Darkstalkers' pursuit attack, as well as augmented counters (the so-called "Plasma Revenge", similar to Vampire Hunter/ Savior "ES moves")... Even when we leave some of their tunes out of context, they could be swapped between both series without problems (although the same could be done with other late 90s Capcom games, such as Warzard, SFIII: New Gen and the above-mentioned)


I may be a sucker for strange, misunderstood niche games but, as in Warzard's case, watching so much wasted potential pains me to no end. Now that Capcom finally got the expertise and resources to create competent 3D fighting games I wish they would invest some of the money they earned milking their fans throughout the years to take another shot at this wonderful, albeit misused franchise. I think there's more than enough potential in there to make something great out of it... right, guys?


Hey! Where did everybody go?




PS: I pity the fool who never listened to Illusion of Peace





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"Re(1):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Wed 25 May 10:52post reply

quote:
I enjoy the first Star Gladiator mainly as a single player experience. It's nothing special in competitive play, but because the character designs and the soundtrack is so awesome I enjoy it. I do not enjoy Justice Gakuen.
Good news! With a little work, I believe I can reconcile the Star Gladiator and Justice discussions, thereby expanding the available joy in Legendary Ninja's universe while also saving him from the certain insanity that results from not loving Justice Gakuen. Here's where I see it, thanks to Hayato:
quote:
But what the series lacked in playability, it more than made up for in originality, thanks to Akiman's colorul character desing (June, Zelkin, Saturn and Bilstein looked really original to me back then), the outlandish, but somehow familiar atmosphere that permeates the series (first time I saw SG in action I couldn't believe it was a Capcom game... until I tried it, that is) and their wonderful soundtrack
Though I never played Star Gladiator, this leads me to believe that both of these not-particularly-playable 3D fighters shine not because of their gameplay, but because of the magical energy of 1990's Capcom's unparalleled art, the accompanying design and personality of the characters, and the superb music. I can't remark on Star Gladiator, but objectively speaking, Justice Gakuen's gameplay is pretty weak. Nothing but quarter-circles? Hum. But it doesn't matter even a little bit because of the vibrant world, big heart, and beautiful character designs on parade, including in the life sim, of course. (I cannot imagine this game in English, so that might be part of the problem.) I LOVE playing it. I suspect Star Gladiator is similar.





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"Re(2):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Wed 25 May 18:59post reply

One thing I will never criticize in Star Gladiator is the character designs (like Warzard, Cyberbots and everything Capcom did at the time).

I think some people want a "Capcom vs Capcom" in the vein of MvC so the jolly crazy nonsense fighter can continue, but probably as many people want it so they could resurrect June, Rain and Saturn, but also Tabatha, Sekmet and Nool, but also Devilot, Hayato and Arieta, and also Vampire characters, and Tiffany and Akira and Daigo, and anyone from Muscle Bomber, and...

Basically what the Capcom side of MvC1-2-3 started, and CFJ failed to capitalize on. We don't need a game as much as we need a mausoleum to enshrine and preserve those characters.





Just a Person
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"Re(3):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Wed 25 May 22:12post reply

Uh... just to be sure, which is the current weekly classic fighting game: Star Gladiator or Rival Schools?

quote:
One thing I will never criticize in Star Gladiator is the character designs (like Warzard, Cyberbots and everything Capcom did at the time).

I think some people want a "Capcom vs Capcom" in the vein of MvC so the jolly crazy nonsense fighter can continue, but probably as many people want it so they could resurrect June, Rain and Saturn, but also Tabatha, Sekmet and Nool, but also Devilot, Hayato and Arieta, and also Vampire characters, and Tiffany and Akira and Daigo, and anyone from Muscle Bomber, and...

Basically what the Capcom side of MvC1-2-3 started, and CFJ failed to capitalize on. We don't need a game as much as we need a mausoleum to enshrine and preserve those characters.



Indeed, CFJ could have been amazing had it followed the MvC formula but using only Capcom characters (LOTS of Capcom characters from LOTS of Capcom franchises, not the few representatives of only three franchises we got in CFJ).

Would a game like this still be viable nowadays?





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neo0r0chiaku
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"Re(4):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Wed 25 May 22:48post reply

quote:
Uh... just to be sure, which is the current weekly classic fighting game: Star Gladiator or Rival Schools?

One thing I will never criticize in Star Gladiator is the character designs (like Warzard, Cyberbots and everything Capcom did at the time).

I think some people want a "Capcom vs Capcom" in the vein of MvC so the jolly crazy nonsense fighter can continue, but probably as many people want it so they could resurrect June, Rain and Saturn, but also Tabatha, Sekmet and Nool, but also Devilot, Hayato and Arieta, and also Vampire characters, and Tiffany and Akira and Daigo, and anyone from Muscle Bomber, and...

Basically what the Capcom side of MvC1-2-3 started, and CFJ failed to capitalize on. We don't need a game as much as we need a mausoleum to enshrine and preserve those characters.


Indeed, CFJ could have been amazing had it followed the MvC formula but using only Capcom characters (LOTS of Capcom characters from LOTS of Capcom franchises, not the few representatives of only three franchises we got in CFJ).

Would a game like this still be viable nowadays?



CFJ would have been great if it came out the same time Capcom made Marvel Super Heroes. SNK already made BC and I don't think other companies can make a game similar. You do have Jump Super/Ultimate Stars and Namco can probably escape at making one. Capcom could make another game similar into 3-D since we have not seen any other Capcom franchises in a 3-D fighting game(MvC3 does not count). Unless you count TvC but its still based on the original vs series.





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"Re(4):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Wed 25 May 22:49post reply

quote:
Uh... just to be sure, which is the current weekly classic fighting game: Star Gladiator or Rival Schools?


Both of them. Neither will get their own spotlight. Heh heh heh...

Star Gladiator 2 is a great example of taking what's good in a game and reinventing it for a sequel. Which is something Capcom very rarely does. They threw away most of the gameplay mechanics, characters that sucked, and just had fun with the rest. If you have only played the first game but not the sequel, then you're missing out. The sound those pounce attacks make is sublime. Oooh!

I remember someone here had Blood's tattoo as their avatar here years ago. Was it you, Hayato?

Oh, and Iggy forgot Gore from his list of characters people want to see in another Capcom game. How could he?





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"Re(5):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Wed 25 May 23:19post reply

quote:
Oh, and Iggy forgot Gore from his list of characters people want to see in another Capcom game. How could he?

Because even if we're dreaming of a 200-strong characters extravaganza, we need to be realistic: it would still be a Japanese game, and it is certain they would pick SG2's Gore's clone who also happens to be a half-naked loli over him.





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"Re(6):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Thu 26 May 01:26post reply

Thanks to this thread I watched some SG videos to help jog my spotty memory. Upon review I can see why Nobi, Hayato and others were impressed by the look of the game. Not only were most of the characters well designed but they were well designed for the hardware. SG was a case where the creators made the most out of a limited set of tools. The distinctive outlines and bold colors really make the characters stand out. Add in the light effects and the buzzy noise of the weapons and SG ends up with a terrific presentation.





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"Re(6):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Thu 26 May 04:43post reply

quote:
Oh, and Iggy forgot Gore from his list of characters people want to see in another Capcom game. How could he?
Because even if we're dreaming of a 200-strong characters extravaganza, we need to be realistic: it would still be a Japanese game, and it is certain they would pick SG2's Gore's clone who also happens to be a half-naked loli over him.



I know. I wasn't being serious. That's also why I don't expect Capcom to ever release anything worthwhile again. Because I am being realistic.





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"Re(7):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Thu 26 May 07:36post reply

quote:
That's also why I don't expect Capcom to ever release anything worthwhile again. Because I am being realistic.


...
... *crawl into a ball and cries in silence*





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"Re(8):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Thu 26 May 13:29post reply

quote:
That's also why I don't expect Capcom to ever release anything worthwhile again. Because I am being realistic.

...
... *crawl into a ball and cries in silence*



The only hope for gaming's future is for one of us to become a feudal era aristocrat and use the wealth earned from one's land holdings to patronize arts by ex-Capcom staff.





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"Re(9):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Thu 26 May 14:19post reply

quote:

Oh, and in the arcade version there was a PlayStation logo in one of the backgrounds but the console release came out on the Dreamcast.



It's not a "real" Playstation logo. Among the damaged buildings is a logo similar to the Playstation logo, but it has an R on it instead of a P, and the colours are different. But what is more interesting is what else you can see among the destruction... there's a building in a sorry state with the letters S, N and K on top of it. I'm also fairly sure most other company names you can see in the wreckage there are pokes at other developers.





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"Re(8):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Thu 26 May 15:28post reply

quote:
That's also why I don't expect Capcom to ever release anything worthwhile again. Because I am being realistic.

...
... *crawl into a ball and cries in silence*



I know you guys aren't 100% serious but I came in here about to talk about Star Gladiator and now all I can do is sigh wistfully.





/ / /

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"Re(9):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Thu 26 May 18:30post reply

quote:
The only hope for gaming's future is for one of us to become a feudal era aristocrat and use the wealth earned from one's land holdings to patronize arts by ex-Capcom staff.



Or instead of an elite financial bottleneck, perhaps this calls for some zerg rushing to distribute the load. Patreon-ish financing models aren't that popular in Japan, are they?...

quote:

Oh, and in the arcade version there was a PlayStation logo in one of the backgrounds but the console release came out on the Dreamcast.


It's not a "real" Playstation logo. Among the damaged buildings is a logo similar to the Playstation logo, but it has an R on it instead of a P, and the colours are different. But what is more interesting is what else you can see among the destruction... there's a building in a sorry state with the letters S, N and K on top of it. I'm also fairly sure most other company names you can see in the wreckage there are pokes at other developers.



Where can I find some screenshots of this?... I don't even know what stage name to look for to try and narrow down a search...





...!!

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"Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma S" , posted Thu 26 May 20:12post reply

quote:

Where can I find some screenshots of this?... I don't even know what stage name to look for to try and narrow down a search...



Best I could find for now





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"Re(5):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Sat 28 May 08:56post reply

quote:

Star Gladiator 2 is a great example of taking what's good in a game and reinventing it for a sequel. Which is something Capcom very rarely does. They threw away most of the gameplay mechanics, characters that sucked, and just had fun with the rest. If you have only played the first game but not the sequel, then you're missing out. The sound those pounce attacks make is sublime. Oooh!



SG was the first game in the series I ever had contact with: I spent most of my childhood summers in a holiday, coastal village in northern Spain where lying on the beach or going to the local arcades were the only pasttimes worth mentioning for nerdy childen like me. Along one of those lengthy, idle summers of my teens, I first met it on the shoddiest, most debased arcade out of the two (it wasn't long, in fact, until both of them were closed, due to the unavoidable "Twilight of the Arcades" that came in the 00´s. In the darkest corner of the already inky place (so ill-lit, in fact, that neons had to been permanently on, even under a midsummer noon sun), SG's attract mode left me speechless. Technically speaking, it offered nothing I hadn't seen before; Virtua Fighter, Tekken and Soul Edge had been out for a while and, albeit older, some of them were clearly superior to the newcomer in terms of graphics, mechanics or even both. But, to me, that couldn't matter less: the colorful, imaginative and otherworldy universe that cabinet flashed to my retinas left an indelible mark on my teen psyche like only Capcom games had done before!

I remember approaching it and playing a couple credits, just to test whether the game was so much fun as it looked. Sadly, it wasn't: to me, used to 2D fighting games, the game felt awkward, slow and a bit messy. I remember thinking "Not bad for a Toshinden spin-off, it looks as if it had been designed by Capcom". And right after finishing my last credit, that's when I came to realize it: Capcom's logo appeared on screen, right at the beginning of SG's attract mode! LOL


Now that my nostalgia trip came to an end, I must concur with Legenoaryninlia on Plasma Sword being the best game out of the two. Not only is it more visually appealing, but also much more fun to play, thanks to its more comprehensive mechanics and combat flow (faster, flashier and more aggressive than its predecessor's). I occasionally play SG on MAME (mainly for nostalgia's sake), but Plasma Sword is where the fun is (the same could be said about SFIII:New Gen and SFIII:3rd Strike).



quote:
I remember someone here had Blood's tattoo as their avatar here years ago. Was it you, Hayato?


Nope, sorry: I have never changed my avatar, not in this site , not in any of the forums and social networks where I use it. But I also remember the avatar you mention, the matter is I can't remember whose user it was...


quote:

Oh, and in the arcade version there was a PlayStation logo in one of the backgrounds but the console release came out on the Dreamcast.


It's not a "real" Playstation logo. Among the damaged buildings is a logo similar to the Playstation logo, but it has an R on it instead of a P, and the colours are different. But what is more interesting is what else you can see among the destruction... there's a building in a sorry state with the letters S, N and K on top of it. I'm also fairly sure most other company names you can see in the wreckage there are pokes at other developers.


According to the image you posted (or those I just captured for your viewing pleasure) there are some pretty obvious references: besides the ones previously mentioned, "IATO" and "_ _ Nten_ _" clearly stand out, as well as that "SG" sign on top of the highest building (upper right corner of the screen, behind P2's health bar), set in a distinct blue font. There's even a smiley-like character under "_amc_" which looks pretty familiar...

I just pointing the obvious ones, but those more knowledgeable here in the cafe may like to give the pics a look, just to try to spot even more obscure references...





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"Re(6):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Sat 28 May 16:13:post reply

quote:

Star Gladiator 2 is a great example of taking what's good in a game and reinventing it for a sequel. Which is something Capcom very rarely does. They threw away most of the gameplay mechanics, characters that sucked, and just had fun with the rest. If you have only played the first game but not the sequel, then you're missing out. The sound those pounce attacks make is sublime. Oooh!


quote:

SG was the first game in the series I ever had contact with: I spent most of my childhood summers in a holiday, coastal village in northern Spain where lying on the beach or going to the local arcades were the only pasttimes worth mentioning for nerdy childen like me. Along one of those lengthy, idle summers of my teens, I first met it on the shoddiest, most debased arcade out of the two (it wasn't long, in fact, until both of them were closed, due to the unavoidable "Twilight of the Arcades" that came in the 00´s.


I'm working too hard lately but I've been inspired to share briefly.

Anyway, I played Star Gladiator a lot during a certain period of my freshman year. The game was pretty easy to get into, so nearly everyone in my dorm hall was playing it. Anytime I see or hear Star Gladiator I immediately think of this song. For me, this is the official soundtrack of the game.

But why? My roommate obsessively played this song on repeat for like a week straight... which eventually killed off the competition since many people on my floor would rather not hear the same song twenty times in a row while I cheerily beat their ass with my deadly combos. I retired as champion not long after, partly because my foremost rival could no longer stand to be in the room (a bittersweet victory).

This quirky situation would repeat itself in a much less humorous way later that year when my roommate played Cake's absolutely wretched cover of "I Will Survive" literally thousands of times consecutively without stopping (coming close to double-digit thousands; I worked it out on a calculator). He only turned the volume down when he went to sleep. Cake and my roommate were hell-bent on survival, but I was unable to endure these circumstances. For this and other reasons, I spent a lot of time outside my room that semester.

But while the Star Glatiator/Lovefool confluence was taking place, it was not rare for both opposing star gladiators to begin moving rhythmically at the start of a round rather than fight each other, intentionally whiffing attacks in time to the music until someone "accidentally" hit the other or simply dropped the pretense to go for blood. There was a strange beauty to it, although I usually played Bilstein, who was not the most graceful dancer.

Just as the game reminds me of the song, the song instantly reminds me of the phallic head of Saturn swaying and bobbing as he flings around his deadly, laser-edged space-yo-yos, burning and yearning for someone to "love him, love him." This memory came back to me vividly years later in Las Vegas; the song came on while I was on the floor dancing with an incredibly gorgeous girl. I was laughing so hard that I had to attempt some sort of explanation, but I don't recall if I mentioned the game. A decade after later, when I saw The Cardigans perform live at a small venue in Toronto, I was somewhat relieved they did not play this song, but I still thought of Star Gladiator anyway.

Sadly, I don't have any strong memories of Plasma Blade at all. I'm not even sure if I ever played it.

~Fin





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sat 28 May 17:29]

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"Re(7):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Sun 29 May 00:06post reply

quote:

Anytime I see or hear Star Gladiator I immediately think of this song. For me, this is the official soundtrack of the game.


Just woke up, read this, saw the video, could not not laughing. Totally unexpected!





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"Re(8):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Sun 29 May 02:43post reply

quote:

Anytime I see or hear Star Gladiator I immediately think of this song. For me, this is the official soundtrack of the game.

Just woke up, read this, saw the video, could not not laughing. Totally unexpected!



Yeah, that was a great story. And he's so cool that not only is he dismissing the original title of Star Gladiator 2, he's not even calling it Plasma Sword. He's calling it Plasma Blade. Kakkoii!





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"Re(9):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma Sw" , posted Sun 29 May 07:05:post reply

quote:

Anytime I see or hear Star Gladiator I immediately think of this song. For me, this is the official soundtrack of the game.

Just woke up, read this, saw the video, could not not laughing. Totally unexpected!


Yeah, that was a great story. And he's so cool that not only is he dismissing the original title of Star Gladiator 2, he's not even calling it Plasma Sword. He's calling it Plasma Blade. Kakkoii!




I actually just deleted a post where I apologized for being a bit pretentious and forgetting the name of a sequel, but you know what? I'm kind of offended.

I was literally thinking back TWENTY YEARS to pull up some of the details of this story. Maybe I was thinking of Soul Blade (the vile North American name for the game rightfully and truly known as Soul Edge). Maybe SamSho IV (oops... I mean "サムライスピリッツ天草降臨") had popped into my head for a second, since I also played that one on my roommate's PlayStation and I've heard Galford scream "PLASMA BLADE!" about a million times over the course of the series. But I wasn't really anticipating that my post would be audited for accuracy and mocked.

I felt like I was posting in the spirit of the thread:

quote:

The more personal we can get the better. Did you become a fan of a certain character because of particular game? Or did you begin to hate some character for some reason in that game? Does a song in it bring back memories of good old times? Did you love the game even though you only had access to a sub-par console port? Or maybe you just regret selling it to buy another game you wish you had never bought. Let's share these stories. Hey c'mon!



Still, sorry for oversharing I guess? Maybe I should have talked more about trolling with Hayato's super-extended sword? Or how much I loved catching people with Bilstein's telekinetic crunch-you-up-and-impale-you-on-his-sword move?

If I wanted to catch rude comments, I could go anywhere else on the internet. It took me a minute to figure out why I felt so irritated after reading your reply. I just really didn't expect that here!

I do apologize for derailing the thread. I'm not really into forum drama, but I felt like I needed to respond. If you would prefer, I'll stay out of your threads from now on.





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sun 29 May 07:14]

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"Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma S" , posted Sun 29 May 08:22post reply

Hum...
For what it's worth, I enjoyed reading Mosquiton's post much more than any time I spent playing Star Gladiator, so that's that!
Thanks for doing the effort of telling the story, and who cares about the exact name of the game, or system or characters or whatever as long as everyone understand what everyone is talking about.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Pl" , posted Sun 29 May 08:51:post reply

Red Knight, look what you've done! Your tragic dislike of Justice Gakuen I can understand, but Mosquiton's post is one of the best of this fun thread you've created.

As penance, you must now play Ergheiz unceasingly while praying for him to change his mind and post more. I hear that if you get to the end of quest mode, it congratulates you by informing you that you should've been playing Tobal 2 the whole time.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Sun 29 May 09:05]

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"Re(3):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Pl" , posted Sun 29 May 10:38post reply

That was a cool story. It spins my head that when I think about arcade days, those days happened around twenty years ago and like you I experience them twenty something years ago which is when you are in college/university (that is years later I am in now).
I'm in mixed feelings we're getting old :/

Anyway before we depart from Headswap Fighter and its imaginitive world I wanna say some random things about the game.

*I used to try every headswap character supers and endings in order to see the difference. Sometimes the clone would have better moves and supers as far as I remember. So that was fun.

*I was super pissed that I couldnt figure out to do secret move/taunt. No internet at the time. Gore or the clone floated in the air and I tried to find out how to do that.

*Byakko is awesome. But just because the solid reason of having a great name. I don't know if there is meaning behind it in japanese but I loved it because how I thought it would sound. Coincidentally it is similar to regular Turkish words like Bıyık (mustache), büyük (big) but it's not mother tongue pride, Byakko sounds just coo. Oh, and he needs to appear again. Fun fact: years later my cat got the name "Büyük" for different reasons but I remember giving her nickname Byakko. She is vicious and a godmother so it also fits :p.

*Also the fencing girl. She needs to go out to the other series.

*I seriously dont remember anything about story and I think I had seen the game's endings. I remember one of the clown guys was evil other one was worse; lame. Saturn? Byakko was vigilante and Bilstein was the main villain? Or the clone of the main villain... It can be anything. It's weird for me not to remember anything about lore.

*Oh I remembered the the woman with a wedding dress (I really need to look for the names to wikipedia I guess) She was overpowered and popular among the players in arcade. But her design was nice, Icy powers and all.

Which brings me to the next suggesstion. And I do hope this suggestion also bring good, interesting memories.
Kabuki Klash;Far East Of Eden.
I really liked this mythical foreign and oriental atmosphere. It was oriental even to me (I lived in Mediterrennean Asia).
I loved the Icy stage,the beautiful confusion about understanding who was the main guy? Crazy Kabuki performer with multiple weapons ot spiky haired teenage with a sword?
It had a unique system which gives you health, poison and better execution of gem system of SfxT; Defense, Speed and Power up in the rounds. Some winged figure would drop it.
So how Icy space bride remind me this game? Because of another character looks like a bride. Kinu. I loved her and her *puffy* dog. I might have told here about my fandom towards her before and prayed her miracle appearance in the miracle itself; NGBC 2.
Kinu was perfect mix of Amakusa, Galford an Athena.Its been really long time since I have played this but my memory describes her like that.

I was a lousy player back then so no endings. Im not sure if I made it to bosses either. But I remember all the beatiful moves and things like the mythical frog. Also this game make itself burn into my memory as *how the heck they can have a duel place above the ballons when such duels involves all kind of swords, knives, axes an etc...* the game.

I heard that the arcade fighting game was actually a spin-off of a JRPG of some sort. But for some reason I never try to hunt down the main games.





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"Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Plasma S" , posted Sun 29 May 12:00post reply

Mosquiton, I wasn't trying to be rude. I think that it was cool that you accidentally called the second game Plasma Blade after sharing a great story about how the first game played a part in your life when you lived in a dorm. Your story gave me more insight in how the experience of playing the game and all the memories related to it are important. More important than say just owning a game or knowing some trivia about it. I apologise for wording out my response in such way that it sounded rude. It was my own fault.

I haven't even shared any of my own experiences with the Star Gladiator series yet, but that's the kind of stuff I was after when I created this thread. From now on I'll try to contribute more and sound less like a jerk.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Pl" , posted Mon 30 May 05:38post reply

quote:
Mosquiton, I wasn't trying to be rude. I think that it was cool that you accidentally called the second game Plasma Blade after sharing a great story about how the first game played a part in your life when you lived in a dorm. Your story gave me more insight in how the experience of playing the game and all the memories related to it are important. More important than say just owning a game or knowing some trivia about it. I apologise for wording out my response in such way that it sounded rude. It was my own fault.

I haven't even shared any of my own experiences with the Star Gladiator series yet, but that's the kind of stuff I was after when I created this thread. From now on I'll try to contribute more and sound less like a jerk.



In that case, I'm sorry to have misunderstood you. Your reply sounded very sarcastic and I guess I got the wrong idea.

Anyway, no worries. Since I never played Kabuki Klash either, I'll sit back and listen for a while.





/ / /

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"Re(3):Re(10):Weekly classic fighting game: Pl" , posted Mon 30 May 07:22post reply

There are times when I've asked questions on this forum and I literally write out that I'm not trying to be sarcastic or mean when I ask it!

My two big memories of the game are activating the super mode with June (or her headswap??? I think it was June) and combing people with endless rings done by mashing the punch button.

Which makes me realize that that's exactly where they got Guile's V-Trigger.

Bilsten being able to do endless supers was something that I saw somebody do but I couldn't figure out how to do any supers with him so he felt like a crappy (I was so young! I didn't know much!) Siegfried.





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"Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Mon 30 May 11:54:post reply

quote:
*Byakko is awesome.
Oguz, I love that Byakko sounds cool in Turkish. They're referring to the name in Japanese for the white tiger who's one of the four legendary Chinese god-beasts who double as constellations, the other three being the blue dragon Seiryuu, the crimson bird Suzaku, and the black turtle Genbu. You've likely seen this motif around a lot of games without realizing it: in my effort to ensure that Dracula is mentioned in every thread, I'll note that in Dracula X~Rondo of Blood, Maria's powerups are cute cartoonified versions of these guys. Back to fighting games:
quote:
Kabuki Klash;Far East Of Eden.
After wondering what Kabuki Klash was, I looked it up, and holy cow, I had no idea that ANY of the hugely popular Tengai Makyou (Far East of Eden) games had ever been released internationally, let alone the fighting game spin-off!?

Speaking of thread takeovers and spin-offs, I'm pleased to note that thanks to Lord Iggy-nton's good deeds, Star Gladiator no longer has to compete here with Justice Gakuen for the weekly theme, due to it having already created a Justice memories spin-off thread that's taken over the other thread, the same way it took over the interview referenced therein.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 30 May 12:32]

HokutoAndy
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"Last Blade 2016" , posted Mon 30 May 13:52post reply

After killin' some dudes in DS3, my thrist for a proper weapon fighter conveniently aligned with the PS4 release of Last Blade 2.

It's been fun just going through story mode with (to me) all new characters and somewhat familiar yet unique mechanics. Boy do I love the sound and animation of deflect/parry in this game.

First tried out Keiichiro, his charge moves and serious government worker background reminds me of Guile. And then there's Setsuna with his giant bird and orochi explosion fingers, though for now I'm settling with learning Moriya as he does that "charge then hit high/med/low hit" flashing sword that I love with Johnny in Guilty Gear.





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"P-last-ma Blade 2016" , posted Mon 30 May 20:04post reply

quote:
After killin' some dudes in DS3, my thrist for a proper weapon fighter conveniently aligned with the PS4 release of Last Blade 2.

It's been fun just going through story mode with (to me) all new characters and somewhat familiar yet unique mechanics. Boy do I love the sound and animation of deflect/parry in this game.

First tried out Keiichiro, his charge moves and serious government worker background reminds me of Guile. And then there's Setsuna with his giant bird and orochi explosion fingers, though for now I'm settling with learning Moriya as he does that "charge then hit high/med/low hit" flashing sword that I love with Johnny in Guilty Gear.



Given the uniqueness and colorful lore it stablished, I always thought that the Star Gladiator/Plasma Sword IP had everything Capcom needed to create a big, competitive-tier weapon fighting game, not unlike Soul Calibur or its 2D equivalents, SamuSupi and Last Blade 2. It could be just me being delusional back then, but the strange thing is, the more time passes, the more convinced I am something like that could have been possible, had Capcom developed a sequel around the mid 00s.

I'd still love to see a new entry on the franchise powered by, let's say, SFV's engine (not to mention Arcsys Xrd's that would probably be too much for my poor heart to handle)...


BTW, I just realized Rimgal's color scheme reminds me of certain other Capcom saurian... Of course, I don't even remotely think designers did it on purpose, but were it the case it may be one of the obscurest (and most successful) homages to their own legacy they ever did!





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"Re(1):P-last-ma Blade 2016" , posted Mon 30 May 21:45post reply

quote:

BTW, I just realized Rimgal's color scheme reminds me of certain other Capcom saurian... Of course, I don't even remotely think designers did it on purpose, but were it the case it may be one of the obscurest (and most successful) homages to their own legacy they ever did!



Also looks like Sauron from Primal Rage.





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"Re(2):P-last-ma Blade 2016" , posted Tue 31 May 03:01:post reply

quote:

BTW, I just realized Rimgal's color scheme reminds me of certain other Capcom saurian... Of course, I don't even remotely think designers did it on purpose, but were it the case it may be one of the obscurest (and most successful) homages to their own legacy they ever did!


Also looks like Sauron from Primal Rage.



I actually think of Talon from Primal Rage in terms of the pattern, but definitely Sauron in terms of the colors.





[this message was edited by Spoon on Tue 31 May 03:02]

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"Re(3):P-last-ma Blade 2016" , posted Tue 31 May 04:11post reply

quote:

BTW, I just realized Rimgal's color scheme reminds me of certain other Capcom saurian... Of course, I don't even remotely think designers did it on purpose, but were it the case it may be one of the obscurest (and most successful) homages to their own legacy they ever did!


Also looks like Sauron from Primal Rage.


I actually think of Talon from Primal Rage in terms of the pattern, but definitely Sauron in terms of the colors.



Is this now a Primal Rage thread?





/ / /

kofoguz
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"Re(1):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Tue 31 May 04:44post reply

quote:
*Byakko is awesome. Oguz, I love that Byakko sounds cool in Turkish. They're referring to the name in Japanese for the white tiger who's one of the four legendary Chinese god-beasts who double as constellations, the other three being the blue dragon Seiryuu, the crimson bird Suzaku, and the black turtle Genbu. You've likely seen this motif around a lot of games without realizing it: in my effort to ensure that Dracula is mentioned in every thread, I'll note that in Dracula X~Rondo of Blood, Maria's powerups are cute cartoonified versions of these guys. Back to fighting games:

Last Plasma Blade of Eden? (Plastma Blade is awesome) I think last blade also has these four gods.Thanks Maou.
The thing is after seeing the rimlag and Kappa I realized I have never played the first game.





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"Re(2):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Tue 31 May 09:03post reply

quote:

The thing is after seeing the rimlag and Kappa I realized I have never played the first game.



Same here, additionally I would like to confess that I thought the second game was called Plasma Warrior until Mosquiton quasi self imposed red card showed up in this thread.


I would also like to point out that currently half(!) of this thread has been dedicated to the Star Gladator discussions----- Would you have guessed that the (currently) most discussed classic fighter of the MMC would have been that game a month ago or so?






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"Re(3):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Wed 1 Jun 07:13post reply

I love All super attack videos!! To refresh or introduce the game I send this video. I love the creativity on the stage designs.And please Let the dog out somewhere somehow.

If no Café member had no memories and interaction we can skip to another one.





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"Re(4):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Wed 1 Jun 11:01:post reply

quote:
I love All super attack videos!! To refresh or introduce the game I send this video. I love the creativity on the stage designs.And please Let the dog out somewhere somehow.

If no Café member had no memories and interaction we can skip to another one.



I myself did not play the game until around 2005. I played it by using just one credit when I came across that and other SNK games I played during the day. I wanted to play certain Neo-Geo fighting games I was not able to experience during my childhood. Kabuki Klash peaked my interest(I still have not got my hands on VF Gowcaizer).

Kinu, sort of reminded me of a orochi type Rimururu and Nakoruru in one. Not sure why, but that is how I felt. Anyone that had some kind of orochi style/concept in it, I wanted to play that character. She is cool but hard to play.

Good ideas in the game and I had some good times playing. Could not beat the game with one credit though. Actually, I don't think I ever beat the final boss. Let alone, go as far as the 4th stage.

The all supers video is great. I wonder if we should do that for every classic game we talk about as a closing remark. Anyone can find good all supers video of Star Gladiator?





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[this message was edited by neo0r0chiaku on Wed 1 Jun 11:04]

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"Re(4):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Wed 1 Jun 13:39post reply

quote:
I love All super attack videos!! To refresh or introduce the game I send this video. I love the creativity on the stage designs.And please Let the dog out somewhere somehow.

If no Café member had no memories and interaction we can skip to another one.



I have plenty of memories of that game, and how it was designed so that everything was completely instinctive and to a point fluid; much later when I heard that it was designed with partially an RPG crew in mind I told myself "oh, so that's why".

TRF made some tournaments for it not that long ago, and I think some other arcade later jumped at the ship....


Speaking of, I just made an atrociously embarrassing mistake with the allocation of one of my posts, ah; so that thread finally flowed down, huh? I feel old now. At least it's related to classic gaming?






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"Re(5):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Wed 1 Jun 22:10post reply

quote:

The all supers video is great. I wonder if we should do that for every classic game we talk about as a closing remark. Anyone can find good all supers video of Star Gladiator?



Ask and ye shall receive!!

- Star Gladiator's "Plasma Strike + Final" Collection

- Plasma Sword Super Moves Collection

And last, but not the least, an oddity I just happened to discover: there's MAME footage showing three debug characters still present in the original Star Gladiator ROM. The first one looks like a prototype for Plasma Sword's Kaede, and the third one looks like a dummy Hayato for engine testing purposes. But the one that I find most intriguing is the second one: a Gundam-like Mecha called BLODIA... Could it be a Cyberbots cameo was considered and ultimately discarded? Did Capcom ever consider merging both universes (making Star Gladiator a sequel to Cyberbots of sorts)?





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"Re(6):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Thu 2 Jun 00:02post reply

quote:

Ask and ye shall receive!!

- Star Gladiator's "Plasma Strike + Final" Collection

Is it me ir Rimgal has the honour of first crotch bite of fighting games? Capcom pushing the envelop for dinophilias?

And for previous games I remeber from the thread;

Darkstalkers 3 All Super moves.

Last Blade 2 All super moves





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"Re(6):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Thu 2 Jun 17:35post reply

quote:

And last, but not the least, an oddity I just happened to discover: there's MAME footage showing three debug characters still present in the original Star Gladiator ROM. The first one looks like a prototype for Plasma Sword's Kaede, and the third one looks like a dummy Hayato for engine testing purposes. But the one that I find most intriguing is the second one: a Gundam-like Mecha called BLODIA... Could it be a Cyberbots cameo was considered and ultimately discarded? Did Capcom ever consider merging both universes (making Star Gladiator a sequel to Cyberbots of sorts)?



That's a MS-09R Rick Dom from Gundam!
Why they made a 3d model of him?
That's really strange.
Has Capcom ever made some 3D Gundam game?
Or, have they used a "stock" 3D model downloaded from the Internet?





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"Re(6):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Thu 2 Jun 19:23post reply

quote:

And last, but not the least, an oddity I just happened to discover: there's MAME footage showing three debug characters still present in the original Star Gladiator ROM. The first one looks like a prototype for Plasma Sword's Kaede, and the third one looks like a dummy Hayato for engine testing purposes. But the one that I find most intriguing is the second one: a Gundam-like Mecha called BLODIA... Could it be a Cyberbots cameo was considered and ultimately discarded? Did Capcom ever consider merging both universes (making Star Gladiator a sequel to Cyberbots of sorts)?



It's somehow terribly fitting that a game supposedly meant to be about Star Wars would, upon failing at that, include a model based on Gundam (a Rick dom from Zeon, I think), which appears to have equivalent popularity in Japan.

As for the merged universes, Project X Zone puts Cyberbots, Space Channel 5 and Star Gladiator and a few others all roughly in the same timeline, which isn't necessarily a reference to its devs being aware of this specific model name (but with the research they clearly put into it all, it seems likely), but at least the notion lives on somewhere in a released product.





...!!

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"Re(7):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Thu 2 Jun 21:07post reply

quote:
Project X Zone puts Cyberbots, Space Channel 5 and Star Gladiator and a few others all roughly in the same timeline
I think I remember Cyberbots and Star Gladiator to be in the same universe, but one far in the future of the other, while Kikaiô was in its own separate universe.
Wait, or was it Kikaiô which was far in the future of Cyberbots while Star Gladiator was separate?

Where is your All About Capcom when you need it.





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"Re(8):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Fri 3 Jun 03:42post reply

quote:
I think I remember Cyberbots and Star Gladiator to be in the same universe, but one far in the future of the other, while Kikaiô was in its own separate universe.
Wait, or was it Kikaiô which was far in the future of Cyberbots while Star Gladiator was separate?

Where is your All About Capcom when you need it.


Given the presence of both Jin Saotome and Blodia II in Kikaiô, I'd vote for the second option...





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"Re(7):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Sat 4 Jun 05:33post reply

quote:

That's a MS-09R Rick Dom from Gundam!
Why they made a 3d model of him?
That's really strange.
Has Capcom ever made some 3D Gundam game?
Or, have they used a "stock" 3D model downloaded from the Internet?



Yes, Capcom develops the Gundam VS. series since 2000. I am not sure if they still develop them now or if their has been any new VS. series Gundam games lately.





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"Re(8):Star Gladiator East of Eden" , posted Sat 4 Jun 07:28post reply

quote:
I think I remember Cyberbots and Star Gladiator to be in the same universe, but one far in the future of the other, while Kikaiô was in its own separate universe.
Wait, or was it Kikaiô which was far in the future of Cyberbots while Star Gladiator was separate?



You better stop that train of thought and simply stop trying to ask for any sort of continuity out of Capcom or fighting game companies in general; else you are going to end up trying to calculate which school year Sakura is coursing (taking into account that she'll never graduate), how many times have Gouken or Nash biten the dust or how many times has had Ryu washed his gi during his life time.






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"Vampire All-Stars" , posted Tue 7 Jun 00:45post reply

Two cool old videos have resurfaced today on Youtube.

• One of the best Gamest videos ever produced, dedicated to the original Arcade release of Vampire Savior. Just in time for that Vampire Musou Koei has been teasing! ( ... What?) Things get fun at 1h16m45s.

• And the promotion video for C:FAS, in a curiously glorious 480p resolution, practically the HD of those Internet video times. I guess it was available on a FamitsuWave DVD, or maybe a Capcom DVD for TGS since the game playable was at TGS that one year it pretended to exist.





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"Re(1):Vampire All-Stars" , posted Tue 7 Jun 01:01post reply

quote:
Just in time for that Vampire Musou Koei has been teasing! ( ... What?)



That read text plus the idea of Musou reminded me of a certain localized game release...





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"Re(2):Vampire All-Stars" , posted Tue 7 Jun 02:02post reply

I still hope that Koei is working on making a Marvel Musou in their unending (successful) quest to spit on Capcom's face.





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"Re(3):Vampire All-Stars" , posted Tue 7 Jun 06:35post reply

...I'm hoping for Seikima II Musou.

I've been busy with moving to another city and other stuff. So please excuse me when I start talking about Star Gladiator again when I get back on track...





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"Re(1):Vampire All-Stars" , posted Tue 7 Jun 06:40:post reply

quote:
Two cool old videos have resurfaced today on Youtube.

• One of the best Gamest videos ever produced, dedicated to the original Arcade release of Vampire Savior. Just in time for that Vampire Musou Koei has been teasing! ( ... What?) Things get fun at 1h16m45s.

• And the promotion video for C:FAS, in a curiously glorious 480p resolution, practically the HD of those Internet video times. I guess it was available on a FamitsuWave DVD, or maybe a Capcom DVD for TGS since the game playable was at TGS that one year it pretended to exist.



Even though I don't understand anything said in the Vampire Savior video, I liked it!

...And only now I realized that Harry doesn't have a shadow (fortunately, he has one in MvC2), and neither do Hsien-Ko's sister and Lord Raptor's sidekick. Weird, considering that Anita had her own shadow in Vampire Hunter (and also has it in the console versions of Savior). Oh well, in a game where two or three characters had to share the same stage while one stage (Iron Horse, Iron Terror) wasn't associated with ANY character, that isn't the strangest thing... it's still a great game, nevertheless





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[this message was edited by Just a Person on Tue 7 Jun 06:49]

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"Re(4):Vampire All-Stars" , posted Tue 7 Jun 06:47post reply

Anyway, if there's still time to comment of the last games before a new classic one is chosen, I must admit I barely know Star Gladiator. But recently, watching some videos of it on YouTube, it looks interesting (dated, but interesting). I'll definitely research more about it whenever I manage to get some free time.

Rival Schools, on the other hand, was fantastic! Crazy, original, with a detailed plot (which wouldn't be a surprise in a SNK game, but Capcom was never really deep when it came to giving decent plots to their fighting games), the cool extra game in the PS port... it's really a shame that the franchise died on its second game. With a little more effort, it could have been successful.





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"Re(1):Vampire All-Stars" , posted Wed 8 Jun 16:44post reply

quote:
Two cool old videos have resurfaced today on Youtube.

• One of the best Gamest videos ever produced, dedicated to the original Arcade release of Vampire Savior. Just in time for that Vampire Musou Koei has been teasing! ( ... What?) Things get fun at 1h16m45s.

It does get fun! But I found out there are still surprises. Never seen the Bishamons table finisher. Then again Im not a Bishamon user though I tried (almost?) every move with everyone.Also surprised by Anakaris' ground trap and the concept Darkforce SDM (?).

Oh how this game needs a proper sequel with talented people and good art direktion.That being said In a perfect world HD remake and sequel get incentive attention and crossovers are filled with Darkstalkers characters. Or even the inpossible option instead of crossovers each company gets a shot at their IPs. Ex; Nintendo trues ( I'll leave the typo alone) Megaman, Harada tries AOF or SS.





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"Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Sat 11 Jun 05:35:post reply

Any suggestion for the next game?
Pocket Fighter?
Bloody Roar?
Primal Rage?
Dragonball GT Final Bout ?





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[this message was edited by neo0r0chiaku on Sat 11 Jun 05:36]

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"Re(1):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Sat 11 Jun 06:17post reply

quote:
Bloody Roar?
HECK YEAH

It's actually very topical, you know: one of the Cafe's more infamous moments in the early days was when Professor broke the news to the English-speaking world about Bloody Roar 3's hilariously naughty debug mode...

Unfortunately, I do not remember Bloody Roar at all. While I'm waiting for Tobal 2 week, it'd be fun to hear how people enjoyed Pocket Fighter or even masterworks like SSFII X, Samurai Spirits, etc. Or maybe I can get Karasu to talk about WAKU WAKU 7





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"Re(2):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Sun 12 Jun 01:47post reply

quote:
Bloody Roar? HECK YEAH

It's actually very topical, you know: one of the Cafe's more infamous moments in the early days was when Professor broke the news to the English-speaking world about Bloody Roar 3's hilariously naughty debug mode...

This may honestly be Bloody Roar's greatest moment in the spotlight. About the only thing I can remember about the game is that one of the characters was a rather butch middle aged lumberjane who I guess could somehow turn into an animal. Or maybe she turned into a flatbed truck with a hemi engine; my memory is spotty. If someone has some grand remembrances about Bloody Roar please share them since I obviously have nothing worthwhile to say.





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"Re(3):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Sun 12 Jun 03:10post reply

quote:
This may honestly be Bloody Roar's greatest moment in the spotlight. About the only thing I can remember about the game is that one of the characters was a rather butch middle aged lumberjane who I guess could somehow turn into an animal. Or maybe she turned into a flatbed truck with a hemi engine; my memory is spotty. If someone has some grand remembrances about Bloody Roar please share them since I obviously have nothing worthwhile to say.



Mitsuko, that poor lady. If I remember correctly, she never appeared again after the first game. Never. Her daughter took her place, though (but since her daughter transformed into a different animal and was a cute young girl instead of a middle-aged lady, it wasn't a decent replacement).

I also remember one character that kinda gave Poison a run for her/his money... Her/his name was Fox, I guess.





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"Re(3):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Sun 12 Jun 03:54:post reply

quote:


"hilariously naughty debug mode..."

This may honestly be Bloody Roar's greatest moment in the spotlight. About the only thing I can remember about the game is that one of the characters was a rather butch middle aged lumberjane who I guess could somehow turn into an animal. Or maybe she turned into a flatbed truck with a hemi engine; my memory is spotty. If someone has some grand remembrances about Bloody Roar please share them since I obviously have nothing worthwhile to say.



You're actually thinking of a fishmonger. Mitsuko turned into a boar.

I played a bit of the original game in arcades, which was called BEASTORIZER in North America, but I typically saved my quarters for other games. I actually didn't have that many quarters in those days, since I was hoarding them to spend on discs.

One of my friends who frequented the university arcade played this game often, though. He would usually use Alice (cute girl that changed into a rabbit) to play arcade mode, but when a challenger appeared he always switched to Mitsuko. Other than the fact that the character hits like a truck, he preferred Mitsuko because he found that people really disliked getting motherfudging beastorized by this rough-hewn force of nature in overalls.

My friend pretty much always won. I really don't remember him losing at all. The losers would then angrily lash out at Mitsuko for being fat, ugly, a dyke, (maybe this character was designed to be provoke a reaction, they had a very non-standard group of characters overall). But my friend was all business systematically punishing them with moves like a mean-looking wall throw and moves with huge knockback that got him quite a few ringouts (including a pretty hilarious-looking donkey (or uh, boar-donkey) kick that hit directly behind you. I remember people sometimes asking this guy to change back to Alice, so at least they didn't have to look at Mitsuko's victory pose after she blasted them the heck out of the ring for the nth time, but my friend never obliged. After all, inflicting psychological pain is one of the greater joys of fighting games, isn't it?

As I mentioned, I didn't really touch the game in the arcade but I had some fun with the sequels on PlayStation. I think I actually bought Bloody Roar 2 and 3. The basic appeal remained pretty much the same, and I honestly think the transformation idea worked really well. However, the character design got mainstreamed after the first game. Female characters got sexier overall, with one character staying mostly human but getting a weird scythe arm (but also showing more cleavage). I think the closest thing I had to a main (hahah) was Jenny the Bat, who was pretty much a generic, sexy femme fatale-type with some swoopy/loopy flying attacks and rapid kicks. I am a sucker for rapid kicks, in general. Mitsuko was dumped in the sequel, they gave her moves to a Rhinoceros Beatle-man if I remember correctly.

Man, I used to be super into fighting games. I'd pretty much buy any B-tier or better fighting game that hit the PlayStation (and anything Capcom put their name on regardless of genre). I guess Bloody Roar isn't the best series, but if there's one thing they're good for it's for casually messing around with people who don't normally play fighting games. Using the "beast button" to transform is fun, and if you keep whacking that same button you'll do a reasonably cool-looking and damaging beasty combo.

I always kind of liked the series overall. I miss smaller companies bringing their own weird sensibilities and occasionally great ideas to fighters.

EDIT: Because I'm so KAKKOIIIIIIIIII!!!! maybe I have to mention that I routinely wrecked my friend in Soul Calibur.





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sun 12 Jun 04:57]

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"Re(2):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Sun 12 Jun 05:29post reply

quote:
Bloody Roar? HECK YEAH

It's actually very topical, you know: one of the Cafe's more infamous moments in the early days was when Professor broke the news to the English-speaking world about Bloody Roar 3's hilariously naughty debug mode...

Unfortunately, I do not remember Bloody Roar at all. While I'm waiting for Tobal 2 week, it'd be fun to hear how people enjoyed Pocket Fighter or even masterworks like SSFII X, Samurai Spirits, etc. Or maybe I can get Karasu to talk about WAKU WAKU 7

I also want Pocket Fighter , SS and Waku Waku 7 (Game Crazy). But lets stick with Bloody Roar right now. I used tpo play this game totally different arcade that I wasnt a regular (they had mk4 Quan Chi cabinet and Ehrgeiz (which is totally a solid candidate for next topic)). I remember bunny girl and bat lady. Some big cats and wolves martialart heavy designs. And I do remember back then they had a sequel for a console I hadnt own (ps3?) at the time. I was wondering about the lore but then I had access to ps3 I forgot about the game. Elephant and chameleon seemed so interesting.





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"Re(3):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Mon 13 Jun 02:00post reply

While I admit I wasn't paying attention I'm still sorry to hear that BR tried to become more palatable as time went by. The animal gimmick isn't what made the game memorable, it was how bizarre the whole thing was. I can't recall the main character at all but I still remember that fox Just A Person mentioned and big, burly Mitsuko. BR was never going to be one of the big hits of fighting games but it would have had a better chance of being a continuing cult classic if it had let its freak flag fly instead of trying to make itself look pretty.





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"Re(4):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Mon 13 Jun 03:59post reply

quote:
While I admit I wasn't paying attention I'm still sorry to hear that BR tried to become more palatable as time went by. The animal gimmick isn't what made the game memorable, it was how bizarre the whole thing was. I can't recall the main character at all but I still remember that fox Just A Person mentioned and big, burly Mitsuko. BR was never going to be one of the big hits of fighting games but it would have had a better chance of being a continuing cult classic if it had let its freak flag fly instead of trying to make itself look pretty.



One of the things I like about fighting games is that you can force people to at least respect a character they dislike for superficial or aesthetic reasons. For example, so many people hate Adon's cocky smile and voice. I will jaguar kick you until you shut up about it. Necro is the lamest character you ever saw? Well it's unfortunate that you just got dizzied because now you get to see a taunt before you eat another combo.

And hell, back in the day I remember people who thought that Chun-Li shouldn't be in Street Fighter II because she's a woman. Of course I would play Chun against these people.

It's tough for me to 100% say that none of the characters in Bloody Roar were designed simply to be laughed at or make people uncomfortable, but once you select that character the designer's intentions matter less than how you play them. Obviously I subscribe to the "death of the author" concept in regard to fighting games.





/ / /

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"Re(5):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Mon 13 Jun 05:01post reply

quote:

It's tough for me to 100% say that none of the characters in Bloody Roar were designed simply to be laughed at or make people uncomfortable, but once you select that character the designer's intentions matter less than how you play them. Obviously I subscribe to the "death of the author" concept in regard to fighting games.

THIS IS AWESOME

Mosqui-tan, you already had me with the idea of getting close-minded people to respect an unpopular character based on skillful play, but pairing French literary theory and Bloody Roar? I hereby submit to you as my new sith lord and master (sorry, Iggy).

It's possible I'd been inadvertantly doing the same thing for years in SF and Soul Calibur by choosing female characters simply because it was a better aesthetic experience for my 1000+ hours engagement with the same graphics, but I love the idea I was potentially also driving people nuts. (In retrospect, I deserve to be pounded by Adon because his voice did indeed annoy me.)

Intentionally or unintentionally, more power to Bloody Roar 1 for Mitsuko! In my continuing quest to talk about Tobal 2, I like to think that victorious Mary players accomplished similar against the mean-spirited.





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"Re(6):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Fri 15 Jul 10:37:post reply

quote:

It's tough for me to 100% say that none of the characters in Bloody Roar were designed simply to be laughed at or make people uncomfortable, but once you select that character the designer's intentions matter less than how you play them. Obviously I subscribe to the "death of the author" concept in regard to fighting games.
THIS IS AWESOME

Mosqui-tan, you already had me with the idea of getting close-minded people to respect an unpopular character based on skillful play, but pairing French literary theory and Bloody Roar? I hereby submit to you as my new sith lord and master (sorry, Iggy).

It's possible I'd been inadvertantly doing the same thing for years in SF and Soul Calibur by choosing female characters simply because it was a better aesthetic experience for my 1000+ hours engagement with the same graphics, but I love the idea I was potentially also driving people nuts. (In retrospect, I deserve to be pounded by Adon because his voice did indeed annoy me.)

Intentionally or unintentionally, more power to Bloody Roar 1 for Mitsuko! In my continuing quest to talk about Tobal 2, I like to think that victorious Mary players accomplished similar against the mean-spirited.



Looks like we forgot about this. What's next?
Eternal Champions?
Shaq-Fu?
Psycho Force 2012?
Pit Fighter?
Clay Fighter?





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[this message was edited by Neo0r0chiaku on Fri 15 Jul 10:38]



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"Re(7):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Fri 15 Jul 11:09post reply

quote:

Looks like we forgot about this. What's next?
Eternal Champions?
Shaq-Fu?
Psycho Force 2012?
Pit Fighter?
Clay Fighter?


EXCUSE ME but I believe I was promised Ehrgeiz!

I'll even start: good heavens, the character models have aged terribly!





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"Re(8):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Sat 16 Jul 13:44:post reply

quote:

EXCUSE ME but I believe I was promised Ehrgeiz!

I'll even start: good heavens, the character models have aged terribly!

I love Ehrgeiz! Specifically, I love talking about how much I dislike Ehrgeiz! I might love disliking Ehrgeiz even more than I love disliking SFIII!

Ehrgeiz is this Secret of Evermore-esque tragic symbol of so many disappointments layered on top of each other. Not the game people abroad wanted or needed (Seiken Densetsu 3/Tobal 2), but strikingly similar, making all its disappointments more glaring. Every moment I play of Ehrgeiz makes me acutely aware of how much I would rather be playing its superior progenator, Tobal 2. Clearing Tobal 2's hard tournament and quest modes gets you magnificent lunatics like Dark Lord Mark and EMPEROR UDAN, clearing Ehrgeiz’s gets you a chocobo or some damn thing. Tobal 2 is colorfully and bright, Ehrgeiz looks like it’s played through a gray filter.

I also dislike how I still can’t spell Ehrgeiz right on the first OR second try.





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"Re(9):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classic" , posted Sat 16 Jul 23:54post reply

Maybe later I'll have something constructive to say but this weekend I'm checking out the results of Evo; a tournament where a myriad of fighting games are being played, none of which are Ehrgeiz.





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"Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game classi" , posted Sun 17 Jul 00:04post reply

Hopefully Mikado will host Ehrgeiz World War 3 next November. I know I am more interested in the Garospe World Cup 2016 happening next weekend rather than with Evo this weekend. Because Garospe is kakkoiii unlike Evo which coincidentally rhymes with kuso.

http://www.mikadoworldcup.com/





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"Re(2):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game " , posted Sun 17 Jul 06:41post reply

quote:
I love Ehrgeiz! Specifically, I love talking about how much I dislike Ehrgeiz! I might love disliking Ehrgeiz even more than I love disliking SFIII!

Ehrgeiz is this Secret of Evermore-esque tragic symbol of so many disappointments layered on top of each other. Not the game people abroad wanted or needed (Seiken Densetsu 3/Tobal 2), but strikingly similar, making all its disappointments more glaring. Every moment I play of Ehrgeiz makes me acutely aware of how much I would rather be playing its superior progenator, Tobal 2. Clearing Tobal 2's hard tournament and quest modes gets you magnificent lunatics like Dark Lord Mark and EMPEROR UDAN, clearing Ehrgeiz’s gets you a chocobo or some damn thing. Tobal 2 is colorfully and bright, Ehrgeiz looks like it’s played through a gray filter.

I also dislike how I still can’t spell Ehrgeiz right on the first OR second try.



I can vividly remember the windup to Ehrgeiz's release back in 1998. There was a lot of excitement about it, and then when it came out it was... well... um... a pile of garbage. It might have even been the moment at which my feelings started going south about Final Fantasy, since the inclusion of characters from VII seemed to be just an attempt to get somebody or anybody to like it. I still think it's a game that had promise, both in its free range systems and in its character designs, but so much of it seems laughable today, from the just-old-enough-to-look-awful-but-not-old-enough-to-be-trendy character models to the ludicrous (even by fighting game standards) storyline.

But yeah, it still amazes me that Tobal 2 never mode it to the states, even during the late PS1 era when so much stuff was getting slap-dash translations and budget releases.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Sat 23 Jul 01:56post reply

My only experience playing Ehrgeiz was when I was a kid, in an arcade in a shopping mall during a trip (AFAIK, my city never had an Ehrgeiz arcade). I played once as Tifa, once as a girl who could become a wolf or something like that, could barely move them across the arena (the gameplay felt kinda sluggish - then again, I am awful at fighting games despite loving them, so the problem could be just my bad skills) before the AI destroyed me... and that was it. Didn't feel like playing it again.

Now, while I don't remember much about PLAYING Ehrgeiz, I do remember READING about Ehrgeiz. There was a lot of hype about this game in Brazilian gaming magazines due to the FFVII characters being in the game (curiously, I never played FFVII in my life or felt any need to play it, but these magazines talked so much about it that it was impossible not to know who Cloud and Tifa were). There was even MORE hype when the PS1 version was released, due to more FFVII characters being added (specially Sephiroth) and the Quest Mode that they claimed was really original and engaging, where you could play either as an archaeologist or as his assistant.

This sounded cool, but even that couldn't make me feel like trying it. It's not that I hated Ehrgeiz or was upset for losing quickly in the arcades (this happens VERY often to me)... it just felt forgettable.

That's weird, considering that it has some aspects in common with Power Stone, a franchise that I love (and that I expect to see chosen as one of the next weekly classic fighting games here).





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"Re(4):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Sat 23 Jul 10:32post reply

For me Ehrgeiz was one of those fighting games that tried to figure out how to stage a battle with free movement, uneven terrain and obstacles. In other words, a truly 3D fight. It didn't succeed but pretty much all the games that went down that path ran into problems.

The main thing I also remember about the game was how much the FFVII were talked up. This was at the height of FFVII mania so that's understandable but it also meant that the dull main cast never had a chance to gain a following. Then again, I doubt they would have been popular anyway. Whether they were borrowing elements from Space Adventurer Cobra, Sukeban Deka or Dororo they copied surface elements but didn't match the charm of the originals.

I did like the presentation of going through a city as you progressed, since it gave the arcade mode a Fatal Fury feel. There was also a weird roguelike secondary game that I never messed with.

Oh, and for some reason the final boss was a dog. Why?





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"Re(3):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Mon 25 Jul 06:01post reply

quote:
I can vividly remember the windup to Ehrgeiz's release back in 1998. There was a lot of excitement about it, and then when it came out it was... well... um... a pile of garbage. It might have even been the moment at which my feelings started going south about Final Fantasy, since the inclusion of characters from VII seemed to be just an attempt to get somebody or anybody to like it. I still think it's a game that had promise, both in its free range systems and in its character designs, but so much of it seems laughable today, from the just-old-enough-to-look-awful-but-not-old-enough-to-be trendy character models to the ludicrous (even by fighting game standards) storyline.


Wait, Ehrgeiz had a storyline?





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"Re(5):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Mon 25 Jul 21:10:post reply

I remember liking the 2d concept/promo art for Ehrgeiz, but not actually liking how the actual game looked. It had some nice art!

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/square/images/d/de/Group.png/revision/latest?cb=20080212181808

The lead artist behind Ehrgeiz did a great job of combining Capcom (particularly SFZero 1 & 2 era Bengus)'s sensibilities with more traditional 90s anime/manga aesthetics. I particularly liked how they drew musculature. Instead of rendering every single muscle with hard lines, they went light on the interior linework and used shading to convey a lot of the forms. This gave the characters a more realistic feeling of being fit, rather than the 'zero percent bodyfat and always flexing hard' look that is more typical of most art of muscular fit people.

quote:
For me Ehrgeiz was one of those fighting games that tried to figure out how to stage a battle with free movement, uneven terrain and obstacles. In other words, a truly 3D fight. It didn't succeed but pretty much all the games that went down that path ran into problems.


I recall having a lot more fun with Trap Gunner and Destrega. Trap Gunner had much more interesting gameplay as it wasn't trying to shoehorn regular fighting game mechanics into a free roaming control scheme and Destrega had better graphics (with less interesting characters) and smoother controls with projectile based combat that again wasn't trying to be Tekken in full 3d.

quote:
Ehrgeiz is this Secret of Evermore-esque tragic symbol of so many disappointments layered on top of each other. Not the game people abroad wanted or needed (Seiken Densetsu 3/Tobal 2), but strikingly similar, making all its disappointments more glaring. Every moment I play of Ehrgeiz makes me acutely aware of how much I would rather be playing its superior progenator, Tobal 2.


My sentiments exactly! I think we would have been best buds in middle school haha. It is a dang shame that Tobal 2 never came out in the USA though. To this day that's still my favourite fighter with full 3d movement. Hell, it even had a great grappling system that accounted for takedowns, takedown reversals and moving to full mount for ground and pound. It is a far better MMA game than any of the UFC ones.

quote:
Oh, and for some reason the final boss was a dog. Why?



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"Re(6):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Tue 26 Jul 02:34:post reply

re: Ehrgeiz

Ehrgeiz is one of those games that tricks you into playing it extremely badly, but is almost on the level of Tobal 2 when you understand the game fully. The major issue is that in order to play it properly you're almost always supposed to be holding a shoulder button. Free running should have been a button hold instead of the default movement. I actually really enjoy watching tournament matches, even though some characters have really cheap tactics.

I feel like if Ehrgeiz had another shot at bat, maybe a PS2 version, and if the Square characters were not the main focus of the sequel, it could have really taken off. But we'll never know.

I'll just watch some Samsho Zero and cry about that series instead.

quote:
Oh, and for some reason the final boss was a dog. Why?



That dog sucks! Worst part of the game IMO.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Tue 26 Jul 05:38post reply

quote:
I recall having a lot more fun with Trap Gunner and Destrega.


Trap Gunner was great! I don't know how on earth it would handle in player vs player but I think they should release a Trap Gunner/Outfoxies double pack so I could find out.

quote:
Ehrgeiz is one of those games that tricks you into playing it extremely badly, but is almost on the level of Tobal 2 when you understand the game fully. The major issue is that in order to play it properly you're almost always supposed to be holding a shoulder button. Free running should have been a button hold instead of the default movement. I actually really enjoy watching tournament matches, even though some characters have really cheap tactics.

That's interesting. Those matches look far different than the frantic, free running mess I remember. Too bad that seemingly even the game itself didn't know how it should be played.

Thinking back on free ranging 3D fighters I now realize most of them went down the Virtual-On route and became an endless stream of Gundam games.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Tue 26 Jul 06:24post reply

quote:
Thinking back on free ranging 3D fighters I now realize most of them went down the Virtual-On route and became an endless stream of Gundam games.



Yeah, once the Gundam games came out the "3d free movement fighting" genre became very established. There were a few weird variants out there, but the majority of games follow a very similar pattern. Even Dissidia, with it's interesting gamble health bar system, is pretty much the same game.

If you get a chance, try Gang beasts with a friend or two. What it lacks in art it makes up in really crazy physics.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Tue 26 Jul 09:26:post reply

quote:
My sentiments exactly! I think we would have been best buds in middle school haha. It is a dang shame that Tobal 2 never came out in the USA though.
but Nobi I thought we were already best buds

Tobal 2 is the greatest. Even without having had Tobal 2 week here yet, I have still talked about it every week. You couldn't pay me to play a PS1-era 3D fighter besides Soul Edge (just for the opening) and Tobal 2 (because every other game looks like junk in comparison).

You make a good point for Erghhghsgeiz's art, though! Too bad it translated into the standard hellish gray PS1 textures!





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"Re(7):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Wed 27 Jul 00:37post reply

quote:
My sentiments exactly! I think we would have been best buds in middle school haha. It is a dang shame that Tobal 2 never came out in the USA though. but Nobi I thought we were already best buds

Tobal 2 is the greatest. Even without having had Tobal 2 week here yet, I have still talked about it every week. You couldn't pay me to play a PS1-era 3D fighter besides Soul Edge (just for the opening) and Tobal 2 (because every other game looks like junk in comparison).

You make a good point for Erghhghsgeiz's art, though! Too bad it translated into the standard hellish gray PS1 textures!



Speaking of Tobal (both no. 1 and 2), I think these two games could be the next weekly classic games for discussion after the comments about Ehrgeiz are over. There's a lot that can be said about the Tobal series.

Then, after them, I would suggest Power Stone (1, 2 and Collection) as the following games for comments, if that's okay for you all.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Re:Weekly classic fighting game" , posted Wed 27 Jul 12:35post reply

quote:
but Nobi I thought we were already best buds



Friends 4eva

(I just meant that we could have been super best friends EVEN EARLIER)

quote:
Speaking of Tobal (both no. 1 and 2), I think these two games could be the next weekly classic games for discussion after the comments about Ehrgeiz are over. There's a lot that can be said about the Tobal series.


I am in support of this!






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"TOBAL TIME" , posted Wed 27 Jul 13:57post reply

The beast is unleashed: to hell with you, Erghghghheiz, IT IS TOBAL TIME

Tobal 2 is the greatest PS1 3D fighter. Tobal 2 might be the greatest 3D fighter period. You can talk about Tobal No. 1 if you want to. My friends and I didn’t have Playstations yet and thus did not get tricked into buying Tobal No. 1 for the FFVII demo.

Tobal 2, however, contains a silky-smooth 60 fps world that had no parallel at its time (look it up). No 3D fighting game before the Dreamcast looks anything less than awful…except Tobal 2! Tobal 2 animates like how you mistakenly remember your “favorite” old games animating. This is good news, because it means you can go enjoy Tobal 2 right the heck now

Tobal 2 contains a marvelous, cheerful, brightly colored cast of Toriyama Akira characters, including a body-positive bulky yet sexy female wrestler who dresses like a governess outside of battle. It has the dastardly secret rabbit boss Emperor Udan!! It has a green-clad fighter named Gren Cuts. His first name is nearly “green” in English, and his last name is nearly “wins” in Japanese. This is the most marvelous video game name since…Dr. Eggman, probably. Nearly twenty years later, we still use the phrase “Gren Cuts” regularly, either in reference to something that is green or something that is winning. You might think that dumb jokes like this do not prove how great Tobal 2 is. You are wrong!

Tobal 2’s most important contribution to fighting games by far is how it feels like an actual fight through its momentum and physics. This is because when your attack is blocked, its motion stops dead in place, just like in real life, with a thud, and you withdraw your fist or leg rather than continuing the motion. By contrast, Soul Calibur 1 and 2 are nearly perfect 3D fighters in my view, but watch how when your attack is blocked, your sword still swings “through” your blocking opponent but without doing any damage. I swear you cannot unsee how weird it is after Tobal 2! Street Fighter V is the first time I’ve noticed Tobal 2-style block animation/physics in a mainline fighter, nineteen years later. Maybe Virtua Fighter did it eventually. Virtua Fighter 2 is the last Virtua that didn’t put me straight to sleep. Sorry! Or maybe DOA did it, sort of. Whatever.

In Tobal 2, you can hold the trigger button to launch a semi-guided chi missile that costs you life but that does disproportionately more damage to your opponent! You’ll probably miss, but it sure feels good! Remember Xenogears, Square’s weird Evangelion fanfic game? The missile feels sort of like the weird optional fighting game hidden inside of that. More importantly, it's a more interesting variation on the super move or critical finish one-hits that can happen anytime.

Tobal 2 features unstoppably joyous Blue Skies music that with a DOO, DOO-DOO-DOO refrain in its opening and character select songs that you will never ever ever ever forget, and an announcer who pronounces "continue?" as "CAHN-tinue?" We still use this one, too.

Tobal 2 featured the best training and replay mode I’m aware of at the time, with a controllable and recordable camera! For everyone from the frame measuring expert to the casual pervert, this was a huge development.

The Tobal games pioneered Quest Mode ages before it became a fighting game staple! In addition to taking place in a less dreary, boring world than Erghehghgeiz, Tobal 2’s Quest Mode features about 200 enemies (yes, chocobos included, it’s still less pandering than FFVII characters), every single of which then becomes a completely superfluous playable character. This is insane. But why not!? We didn’t have to actually play through it because a friend of my friend had a complete save already, thank god.





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"Re(1):TOBAL TIME" , posted Wed 27 Jul 16:31post reply

quote:
The beast is unleashed: to hell with you, Erghghghheiz, IT IS TOBAL TIME

Tobal 2 is the greatest PS1 3D fighter. Tobal 2 might be the greatest 3D fighter period. You can talk about Tobal No. 1 if you want to. My friends and I didn’t have Playstations yet and thus did not get tricked into buying Tobal No. 1 for the FFVII demo.

Tobal 2, however, contains a silky-smooth 60 fps world that had no parallel at its time (look it up). No 3D fighting game before the Dreamcast looks anything less than awful…except Tobal 2! Tobal 2 animates like how you mistakenly remember your “favorite” old games animating. This is good news, because it means you can go enjoy Tobal 2 right the heck now

Tobal 2 contains a marvelous, cheerful, brightly colored cast of Toriyama Akira characters, including a body-positive bulky yet sexy female wrestler who dresses like a governess outside of battle. It has the dastardly secret rabbit boss Emperor Udan!! It has a green-clad fighter named Gren Cuts. His first name is nearly “green” in English, and his last name is nearly “wins” in Japanese. This is the most marvelous video game name since…Dr. Eggman, probably. Nearly twenty years later, we still use the phrase “Gren Cuts” regularly, either in reference to something that is green or something that is winni

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


This is pretty great but, I can't help but feel depressed after reading it.

....

Dream Factory... they're gone, huh?





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"Re(1):TOBAL TIME" , posted Wed 27 Jul 18:09post reply

quote:
The beast is unleashed: to hell with you, Erghghghheiz, IT IS TOBAL TIME

Things


And even with that comprehensive list of things that Maou mentioned, Tobal 2 still had content and innovation for days. So much about this game was incredibly ahead of its time, features that didn't show up in other fighting series for nearly a decade. And some STILL have yet to be repeated.

In terms of cosmetics, Tobal 2 offered up a way to change the color palettes of each main character's costume in a 3D game. It was limited, but boy was it a neat thing to mess around with.

In terms of gameplay, there's too much to talk about but the one that impressed upon me most was the "skill" moves. See, Tobal 2 had these moves with small windows, but instead of hiding them deep in some movelist it made sure the player was aware of them by having the character flash whenever these moves were available, to indicate the exact time you needed to press a button and pull them off. Performing these moves was accompanied by a nifty sparkling particle trail to indicate success, an effect not unlike opening a hidden treasure box. The storied Gren Kuts was so inundated with these moves they may well have been his own gimmick, but all of the characters had some.

What's more, the training mode allowed you to slow the game down to a specific framerate to practice the timing of these and other moves. This feature was also incredibly useful for figuring out and practicing the longest juggles possible in the game and made it easier to feel like you were always accomplishing something, always able. This kind of feature would have been welcome in so many other fighters.

And that quest mode... compared to the silly dungeon of Tobal #1 or the mundane room exploration of Ergheiz, Tobal 2's quest mode was a fully fleshed-out dungeon hack with an overworld, unique monsters, potions with status effects, a stamina system, an alchemy system to mix potions, and a gem system for capturing and powering up/down monsters. It was absurdly detailed even though it absolutely didn't need to be. And like many dungeon hacks, boy was it hard. To this day I still can't remember if I finished the final optional dungeon or not. I sure caught a lot of monsters though, which were largely too limited to play seriously (many had no more than 2-3 moves total) so I would throw them into CPU vs. games for digital cockfights. Good times.

Granted, not all of these features worked 100% and the game wasn't completely bug-free, but the amount of stuff it attempted and succeeded in far outweighed its failings. Tobal 2 deserves to be considered legendary.







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"Re(2):TOBAL TIME" , posted Thu 28 Jul 06:00:post reply

quote:
What's more, the training mode allowed you to slow the game down to a specific framerate to practice the timing of these and other moves.


More important for me was the display that showed when pressing a button would initiate an attack. That showed you not only what your next options were, but also what the exact timing windows were for combos. You could recognize Just Frames because they'd flash. It also showed the timings for both multi-part throws and breaking/reversing throws (as the reverse was the same timing as the extension.)

Few if any fighting games have ever packed so much functionality into so few icons.

quote:
To this day I still can't remember if I finished the final optional dungeon or not.


Final optional dungeon? Do you mean the dungeon that resets your character and effectively has you complete *all* the previous dungeons back-to-back without the ability to go to the town between them? I want to recall that was how you unlocked Ohma and Ohma 2, as they only appeared in the final dungeon (replacing Mark's position as a dungeon boss.)

Like many good Roguelikes, once you learned how to game and exploit the systems, beating the final dungeon became a reasonable task. (Considering how Quest Mode's creation clearly involved at least one person with experience in Roguelikes, I'd guess that many of the "exploits" were actually intentionally provided.)





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"Re(3):TOBAL TIME" , posted Thu 28 Jul 12:02post reply

Tobal 2 was the main reason I begged my parents to lend me the money to mod my PS1. You've all touched upon the big reasons I love the game. I love sitting in training mode and this game gave me SO much to do. I would practice Fei-Pusu's just frame uppercut juggle a lot, slowing things down to see when I'd need to hit those buttons.

Although the 1st game's soundtrack was stacked with S ranked composers I like Tobal 2's almost as much. Takayuki Nakamura laid out a nice, chill soundscape for the planet Tobal with some good Fusion-y licks to keep the energy up.

Also, a fun game to play with Dream Factory games is identifying Tobal animations in their later games. They held onto those same animations for years. Even the lumped on Tekken animations from Ehrgeiz carried over to The Bouncer.





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"Re(4):TOBAL TIME" , posted Fri 29 Jul 06:14post reply

Wow, I had no idea that Tobal 2 was so good! Unfortunately I never got to play either of them...

Anyway, I saw lots of praises about Tobal 2 and how it improved every aspect of the first one, but what about Tobal No.1? Was it a good game (even if not as good as its sequel)?

As for Tobal 2, I can understand why it wasn't released outside of Japan back then... but couldn't it be released on the PSN now (as well as No.1)?





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"Re(5):TOBAL TIME" , posted Fri 29 Jul 08:37:post reply

quote:

Final optional dungeon? Do you mean the dungeon that resets your character and effectively has you complete *all* the previous dungeons back-to-back without the ability to go to the town between them? I want to recall that was how you unlocked Ohma and Ohma 2, as they only appeared in the final dungeon (replacing Mark's position as a dungeon boss.)

Like many good Roguelikes, once you learned how to game and exploit the systems, beating the final dungeon became a reasonable task. (Considering how Quest Mode's creation clearly involved at least one person with experience in Roguelikes, I'd guess that many of the "exploits" were actually intentionally provided.)



Ah, I guess I must have finished it then because I clearly remember Ohma 2 and the disappointment of finally getting to use him. I remember being stuck on that dungeon forever though. At the time I had never played dungeon hacks before, I had no knowledge of Japanese and no guide so everything I knew about it was self-taught, and the idea of doing that whole thing without being able to save just seemed insane, especially since the RNG seemed to want to screw me over more often than not.

But it was still fun!

quote:
Wow, I had no idea that Tobal 2 was so good! Unfortunately I never got to play either of them...

Anyway, I saw lots of praises about Tobal 2 and how it improved every aspect of the first one, but what about Tobal No.1? Was it a good game (even if not as good as its sequel)?



Well I still listen to Tobal #1's soundtrack, so it had that going for it at least.

I guess if you never played Tobal 2 you might enjoy Tobal #1 a little bit...? It is reasonably solid, but it comes off as a really generic and boring fighting game. The biggest thing it had to offer was the unique grappling system, which while interesting, wasn't going to impress anyone that didn't want to look past the game's mundane surface. There wasn't much in the way of combos, very little in the way of neat hidden techniques, and even though the graphics were hi-res for PS1, the personality just wasn't there yet.

It's funny because Square released the game with the FF7 demo probably to get people to try it out in the hopes that they would see that it's slightly more than just a generic fighter, but in the end being compared to FF7 really didn't do it any favors. That probably contributed somewhat to Square deciding not to bring Tobal 2 over.





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"Re(6):TOBAL TIME" , posted Fri 29 Jul 13:18post reply

GLORIOUS! I knew the Cafe was the classiest, but my heart is full of joy even in this ruined world (hello, Cefca) to see this many people who've played Tobal 2.

Gojira reminds me of another reason why Tobal 2 is the greatest: throws! Nobi is 200% right that Tobal 2 secretly contains the best MMA game ever made. I can't remember anymore how it functioned, but I remember that rather than just being able to suddenly chuck someone across the screen with the press of a button, there's a feeling of resistance and back-and-forth just like in real life, before you are (hopefully) able to overpower them. It's the most sensible approach to grabs in a fighting game I've seen, and mimicks the real-life difficulty of throwing someone who may resist so much better than the lame "missed throw" animation that was introduced by 3D fighters and subsequently infected 2D fighters from at least as early as SF Zero 3.





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"Re(7):TOBAL TIME" , posted Sat 30 Jul 09:43post reply

Tobal 2 is an amazing fighting game. The grappling is stellar, although I think at a high level once all of the animations are memorized grappling could become meaningless. Maybe I'm off... But the general feel to the fighting felt so great. There are a lot of just frames, which I'm not sure how I feel about. I love them and hate them.

It was also perfectly suited to the controller, which is a blessing in some respects. I'd love some kind of fan made version of a Tobal style fighting game, but they wouldn't have Toriyama's amazing art. But imagine if we could all play online :)





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"Re(7):TOBAL TIME" , posted Sun 31 Jul 06:00post reply

quote:
Gojira reminds me of another reason why Tobal 2 is the greatest: throws! Nobi is 200% right that Tobal 2 secretly contains the best MMA game ever made. I can't remember anymore how it functioned, but I remember that rather than just being able to suddenly chuck someone across the screen with the press of a button, there's a feeling of resistance and back-and-forth just like in real life, before you are (hopefully) able to overpower them. It's the most sensible approach to grabs in a fighting game I've seen, and mimicks the real-life difficulty of throwing someone who may resist so much better than the lame "missed throw" animation that was introduced by 3D fighters and subsequently infected 2D fighters from at least as early as SF Zero 3.



You didn't just perform a throw out of nowhere. First you did a grapple move that put you in a lock-up. From there you had various options. You could try to move your opponent around the ring, but your opponent could counter your movement. You could do high attacks or low attacks, but I want to recall that your opponent could block them? You could do various position changing throws, including transitioning to a mounted position?

You could also perform the lock up in various positions for different types of holds. Front for a regular lock up, back for back holds, sides for headlock and armlock?

Throw reversals depended on the throw that was being reversed. Some would just separate the two characters, while others would cause the characters to switch roles so that the reversing person now had control.

Mary, being the grappler, took things to a particular extreme. Everyone had multiple throws against fallen opponents based on their position. Mary had eight, based on whether the opponent was face up or face down, and whether Mary was at their head, feet, left side or right side. All eight could be extended to deliver a second hit. She had a rack/backbreaker position (either entered from a regular lockup or from catching an opponent that had been launched into the air) that gave her four or five different throw options. She could deliver a powerbomb to a gut crumpled opponent. I want to recall that she also had a pretty strong grab that bypassed the regular grapple system?





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"Re(1):Weekly classic fighting game thread" , posted Mon 1 Aug 13:31post reply

While we speaking ps1 fighter, Asuka 120% was nice game with daring mechanics. Recently its spiritual successor just went on sale as part of 5BP summer sale

http://5pb.jp/games/sale





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"Re(8):TOBAL TIME" , posted Mon 1 Aug 17:44post reply

quote:

It was also perfectly suited to the controller, which is a blessing in some respects. I'd love some kind of fan made version of a Tobal style fighting game, but they wouldn't have Toriyama's amazing art. But imagine if we could all play online :)



Theoretically it could be done with the EF-12 engine, which recently became available on Steam - I'm just not sure about its online viability though, since to get that to wrok you'd need both players to share characters, in the very least.





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"Re(9):TOBAL TIME" , posted Wed 3 Aug 10:30post reply

In Tobal-related news, people have gotten their hands on an old Dream Factory developed game that never got much of a release.





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"Re(10):KENJU TIME" , posted Wed 3 Aug 13:10post reply

That is pretty cool! Coincidentally, Dream Factory was featured in Famitsu last week as they have been put in charge of reviving Xevious for smartphones. That URL is surely exotic.





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"The lord gives and takes away Bloody Roar 3." , posted Wed 3 Aug 21:32post reply

Sorry for being off topic and pligarizing the title but I have recwnt memory I wanted to share. (This Monday actually). So I was at this guy's friend's house and he popped up his PS2 to play some fighter. He only got DoA 2 and Bloody Roar 3. So of course I wanted to play the sequel I never saw. So a message screen welcomed us saying memory card or bust. Well of course the guy lost the memory card so we couldnt play the game. It was so weird that a genre which needs the memory card least required memory card to play the game so we played DoA2. His friend mopped the floor with us. I had a little resistance after I learnt not to try to counter kicks and punches 2ith grabbing button. We had fun.

Ehrgeiz: God Bless Square's Name Giving
I had a similar arcade experience like maou with that game. The interesting thing is that there is a character named GodHand/Ken Mishima supporting a hairstyle inspired by Heiachi and Kazuya with Tekken moves.
Also the archaeologist father and teacher reminds me an obscure anime I watched years ago with similar storyline. I never knew the original name so Mmcafe lords being able to identify it would be swell.

Tobal 2 Good things might be hidden in the past.
I had modded PS1 but I never knew this game existed. I hope if one day I run into this game it won't have memory card requirement or another stupid obstacle like that.

Cause Mary and Mitsuko should exist in this generation, too.







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"Re(1):The lord gives and takes away Bloody Ro" , posted Thu 4 Aug 11:54post reply

quote:
Tobal 2 Good things might be hidden in the past.
I had modded PS1 but I never knew this game existed. I hope if one day I run into this game it won't have memory card requirement or another stupid obstacle like that.

Dearest Oguz, I will open a world of pleasure unknown to you except in your yogurt room. I hereby proclaim the ultimate act of devotion in this favorite fighting game memory thread by lending you my copy BY MAIL just so you could experience its uncommon joys. Ironically, Tobal 2 would also benefit from a memory card, just so you could have Emperor Udan unlocked.





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"Re(2):The lord gives and takes away Bloody Ro" , posted Thu 4 Aug 20:17post reply

quote:
Tobal 2 Good things might be hidden in the past.
I had modded PS1 but I never knew this game existed. I hope if one day I run into this game it won't have memory card requirement or another stupid obstacle like that.
Dearest Oguz, I will open a world of pleasure unknown to you except in your yogurt room. I hereby proclaim the ultimate act of devotion in this favorite fighting game memory thread by lending you my copy BY MAIL just so you could experience its uncommon joys. Ironically, Tobal 2 would also benefit from a memory card, just so you could have Emperor Udan unlocked.

That is so generous Maou. Thank you!
I never thought I would get an generous offer after my midnight rant post about SFV alts and stuff.

People might think I hate Capcom but I hate how they handle my favourite seriesand how they try to be too safe when they have really good following. I would like to pay you back somehow. Maybe I will be able to send a package made with my Grandma's most delicious thick Yoghurt (Yoğurt) recipe somehow?

P.S. Average Turkish guy is not obsessed with yoghurt it's just me. LOL. There is a reason I have this nickname from my family; Yoghurt Headmaster of the Household.







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"Re(3):The lord gives and takes away Bloody Ro" , posted Fri 5 Aug 14:53post reply

quote:
Maybe I will be able to send a package made with my Grandma's most delicious thick Yoghurt (Yoğurt) recipe somehow?

Splendid! I like the idea of a series of intercontinental loans coming out of this. I'll probably be back home for the year-end holidays, so if you e-mail maoujacky at hotmail.com with your address then, I will send-lend Tobal 2 for a while so that you too can serve for the glory of Emperor Udan.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...
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"Fight! (loading)" , posted Mon 15 Aug 23:54post reply

I don't remember ever getting a truly satisfying answer to that old mystery: what's up with that weird loading at the start of every round of Street Fighter Zero2 for Super Famicom? It seems the game is loading the soundtrack, but why exactly? Is the track compressed beforehand? Is there any good reason why the loading needs to happen again in round 2? Why don't they just keep the track rolling until the end of the entire match? Is it something else entirely? Does this data need to uncompress and then find its place in the console's RAM? Do we have a more thorough understanding of what is technically happening?





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"Re(1):Fight! (loading)" , posted Tue 16 Aug 00:51post reply

quote:
I don't remember ever getting a truly satisfying answer to that old mystery: what's up with that weird loading at the start of every round of Street Fighter Zero2 for Super Famicom? It seems the game is loading the soundtrack, but why exactly? Is the track compressed beforehand? Is there any good reason why the loading needs to happen again in round 2? Why don't they just keep the track rolling until the end of the entire match? Is it something else entirely? Does this data need to uncompress and then find its place in the console's RAM? Do we have a more thorough understanding of what is technically happening?



It's decompressing graphics data using a S-DD1 coprocessor chip. I can only assume it reloads data between rounds for stage transitions or victory poses.







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"Re(2):Fight! (loading)" , posted Tue 16 Aug 05:40post reply

quote:

It's decompressing graphics data using a S-DD1 coprocessor chip. I can only assume it reloads data between rounds for stage transitions or victory poses.



Exactly, thank you Professor. It only decompresses graphic (sprites) data. Those SNES carts had reached their limit. Star Ocean was the only other Super Famicom game that used this chip (made by RICOH, BTW). Fascinating stuff!!





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"Re(2):Fight! (loading)" , posted Tue 16 Aug 19:50post reply

quote:
It's decompressing graphics data using a S-DD1 coprocessor chip. I can only assume it reloads data between rounds for stage transitions or victory poses.

Interesting!







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"Re(3):Fight! for the Future... of 1999" , posted Thu 18 Aug 04:29post reply

shmupulations has a set of interview about 3S with various staff of it

I like to imagine that this line:
"Onuma: There were a lot of 2nd Impact players there."

Is probably today the most historically difficult to imagine.

This picture is AMAZING







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"Re(4):Fight! for the Future... of 1999" , posted Thu 18 Aug 10:52post reply

quote:

"Onuma: There were a lot of 2nd Impact players there."
Hahaha.

Oh man, you sure can really see a whole roster of (unintentional) warning signs!
quote:
these are the next generation of fighters;

our hope that the tradition of live arcade FTG matches will continue for a long time to come.

We used the Canada hip-hop artist infinite for the opening track. I think they came up with something really cool.

Even if you suck, Ken’s strong enough to bury many of the other characters…

There’s almost no “color swap” characters, and I love how each one has a distinct fighting style that really justifies their existence in the roster.[WHAT??!]

It’s crazy… it almost feels like the entire game was made in one week.

Progressive Hit Frame: Uh, what the hell was this, in the end?

Next is Remi. His image somehow feels un-Capcom.

3rd Strike is a bit of an antagonistic move for us. It’s our way of saying that we aren’t only concerned with the casual user

Buuuut I know there are lots of Cafe patrons who not only love to look at 3S (like me) but who also love to play it (not at all like me)! Is 3S going to jump the line in front of Waku Waku 7 as game of the week!?





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"Re(5):Fight! for the Future... of 1999" , posted Fri 19 Aug 00:10:post reply

I'm halfway the Round Table, and I'm amazed by both the amount of love the team put into the game -too bad it needed to be on a much more owner-friendly, widespread system in order to succeed in the arcades as they wished...- and the wackyness of their chat :D Such outstanding documents.





Ore no...kachi da!!

[this message was edited by Micky Kusanagi on Fri 19 Aug 00:11]

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