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Iggy
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"Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Fri 13 May 02:40post reply

The CFN portal is regularly updated with interesting pieces for any SF fan out there.

The section with unused art (logos, character proposals) is already full of charming and ridiculous ideas, and the character lore section is a real treasure cove.
Updated designs:
Hibiki Gou
Sodom
Rufus
Haggar
Joe
Mike WHO IS NOT BISON IN SF5
Tom
Armagedon Yoko
Goutetsu
Gouki
Lee

Also, Chunli's dad gets a design and a name, Dourai. Apparently, he was a student of Gen, and Chunli's crouching HK indirectly comes from him via her dad. He's still "missing" instead of being dead.
Retsu is friend with Dhalsim and knows Oro's past.
Geki is... dead, and has been replaced by a disciple (whom I thought was Carlos, but apparently he isn't).

And the most amazing of them all






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"Re(1):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Fri 13 May 03:38post reply

quote:
Gorbachev


I wonder what fighting style he would use.





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"Re(1):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Fri 13 May 03:42post reply

It looks like they went through a lot of female wrestler designs on their way to SF5. If they ever decide to make the Women's Federation of Muscle Bombers they will have a roster all lined up.

The bits where Combofiend sounds out English fighting game jargon are also a nice bit.





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"Re(1):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Fri 13 May 04:05post reply

quote:

Also, Chunli's dad gets a design and a name, Dourai. Apparently, he was a student of Gen, and Chunli's crouching HK indirectly comes from him via her dad. He's still "missing" instead of being dead.


Interesting how of all things they've managed to stick to his appearance in the SFII V anime after all this time, even though having him murdered by Tall Cammy probably didn't make canon.





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"Re(2):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Fri 13 May 17:38post reply

quote:
Gorbachev

I wonder what fighting style he would use.



should be something related to the dancing in Zangief's classic ending, which Zangief has used in Gem Fighter Mini-mix and SF EX, IIRC. Still, "He turned to politics after graduating, and as supreme leader he promoted wrestling as a method of improving international relations." - has he never heard "the medium is the message"?... I don't really buy the "cooperation through competition" thing, as as an NPC he should be exempt from fighting concerns, a luxury the playable characters don't really have.

Speaking of playable characters, I love that they bothered to give Yamato Nadeshiko a heel persona... maybe one day... especially if Capcom goes after that DoA5 DLC outfit money and a connection to the SF universe is just the right hook to make it extra marketable, considering all those character concepts

I'm not very fond of the Guy redesign, but I guess I'm just not a fan of ponytails.

I wonder if a future update will cover Makoto's family - I'm curious about the kind of people who'd inspire a teenage girl enough to keep her family's legacy alive that she's go out and fight adults and rebuild a dojo by herself. After all those joshi designs this can't qualify as "too obscure", and after Gou Hibiki "too dead" isn't an excuse either...





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Lord SNK
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"Re(3):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Sat 14 May 03:26post reply

quote:
Gorbachev

I wonder what fighting style he would use.


should be something related to the dancing in Zangief's classic ending, which Zangief has used in Gem Fighter Mini-mix and SF EX, IIRC.


Cool, the traditional soviet martial art of the CASATSCHOK!!!
I would pay anything to see him fighting in SFV with that style and that music





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"Re(4):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 24 May 07:40:post reply

I like this Elena and this Necro.
Also, I always thought the two guys at the beginning of SF2 were Mile and Joe, but apparently they're entirely different characters called Max and Scott?!??
I'm cloudbushed.

Moving Loona's question here:
quote:
Why does a column at the SF5 site appear to be discussing Kyo and Iori?

This is a section where they interview employees, and this is part 2 of an interview of Hiragi Yuuichirou.
Who?
Oh, just some guy with a rather... unique CV.

This guy made the motions of SF5. It's the first time he's been working on Ryu.
He's the one who had the idea of the different animations of moves according to whether they hit or are blocked.

But before re-animating Ryu from scratch, he had created a couple more characters you may have heard of, such as DMC's Dante, DMC4's Nero and Basara's Masamune.
He also went to supervise the animation of Donte in the dreadful DMC reboot. The interview talks about how he had to adapt to a different working culture and what he learned from the experience.

His first work at Capcom was on Dino Crisis 2's veloceraptors (hence his icon), but before being a 3D motion specialist, he used to draw 2D pixel art, and his first job in the video game business was... to draw the main character of a certain fighting game series who would end up being named Kusa**gi K*o. He then discusses how he had to make a character that could compare to Ryu, but also to all the other main fighting game heroes, and he decided that since he wouldn't be able to make better characters than those, he would have to try something totally different.

And then, since that character went well, he had the pressure from his upper ups to create the rival to the main character.
I have never thought that Iori's claws and Masamune holding 3 swords in each hand could have a common origin... but here it is!

The full two part interview is full of amazing anecdotes. I'll try to come back to it tomorrow and translate slices of it before Nobi comes to my door and chains me on my desk (but I guess it will be fully translated on the English version eventually anyway)
And wow, is that an interview of Itsuno I see here?





[this message was edited by Iggy on Tue 24 May 08:14]

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"Re(5):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 24 May 08:50post reply

quote:
Hiragi Yuuichirou

Whoa, thanks for the info Iggy! This CFN portal is proving to be a treasure trove of information.





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"Re(6):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 24 May 16:52post reply

quote:
Whoa, thanks for the info Iggy! This CFN portal is proving to be a treasure trove of information.



My thoughts exactly; that website is pure gold. And it's great to see that, on this day and age, some people at Capcom still care about these classic IPs and characters and give them the love they deserve.






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"Re(7):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 24 May 19:43post reply

Thank you Iggy!! And LOL at the censorship in Kyo's name xD
This CFN site is just so valuable...I love how Capcom is treating the lore and development history of this franchise, all while working on what I consider one of the best fighting games around (despite its sheer incompleteness).





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"Re(5):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 24 May 21:09post reply

quote:

Also, I always thought the two guys at the beginning of SF2 were Mile and Joe, but apparently they're entirely different characters called Max and Scott?!??
I'm cloudbushed.
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


I think that this one is another Capcom's retroactive change.

Thanks very much for that translation of the interview.





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"Re(6):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 25 May 02:57post reply

Since Nobi is still sleeping, I'll start with Itsuno because I make the rules, baby.

* Itsuno, one of the creators of SF Zero, and also the experienced director of JUSTICE GAKUEN, and also Dragon Dogman and DMC.
* When he joined the company, new employees had to arrive 30 minutes earlier to clean up. And if they were finished before the start of work time, they would play on the office Neo-*** (1). They played a lot of KoF94. They were working at Capcom, and playing Capcom games were part of their work, so outside of worktime they were playing non-Capcom games. There was no debug department, so they were doing it themselves, testplaying their games to death.
(1) the console of the 100 Mega Shock.
* After a year of doing that, Funamizu arrived and asked him "would you want to work on Street Fighter Classic?"
- What's Street Fighter Classic?
- Well, we were right at the boom of the Super Famicon, so the project started with the aim of being adapted to SFC after the arcade version was released. BENGUS had drawn some characters of SF1, and they thought about doing a game on this period. One experienced employee created the story, Funamizu over-watched the whole project... but they needed a planner. So they came to me, a random guy who had been there for 1 year, and offered me the position.
I knew nothing! I was just a guy who liked to play fighting games, not how to make them! So of course I said "yes". The game became Street Fighter Zero.
* SF3 was already being worked on by the "real" ace team, so they didn't have enough people experienced for the cheap spin-off and they ended up hiring inexperienced newcomers. The CPS2 had been released, but there was still a stock of CPS1. So we were told to create that game to get rid of that stock. Wait, you can't write that!
- Too late, I already wrote that in Akiman's interview.
* In the end, SFZ was such a hit it was moved to CPS2, and then used to sell the stocks of CPS2 (because of the way the rentals of CPS2 boards worked). As the game was created with the SFC in mind, the port was not too difficult, but they had to create a hybrid program to work on both CPS1 and 2. And since the game ended up a success, they created a rental version, which postponed the "cleaning the stock of CPS2" task (and thus created the need for a Zero 2).
*At the time, SF3 was already being developed on CPS3, so Zero effectively extended the CPS2's life, which should have ended much quicker.
*In 1994, when Itsuno joined, the plan was to have the real sequel (SF3) on CPS3, and the CPS2 was just to fill the gap until release, with Vampire, Super Muscle Bomber and X-Men (then Marvel Super Heroes) developed in parallel. The reason was that, even though fighting games were super popular and SNK developed plenty of different titles, most users thought Capcom only had SF2, and that needed to change. Thus the need for games with amazing animations, games with crazy air combos, a certain wrestling game where you could bury your enemy with a throw finish, etc.
*SNK had a much better image than Capcom, with game more varied and closer to players' expectations, like the extremely popular **** **** Special, for example (1).
(1)The game of the legend of wolves who haven't eaten for quite a while.
The interviewer was using the tiny grandpa (not the judoka, the other one). Itsuno was using the character in underwear who could step on people.
* BENGUS was also a young employee, on his second year only. He drew a lot of illustrations, and the guy who drew the poster of Zero joined the company at the same time as Itsuno. The reason Funamizu gave all these youngster a chance was because their objective was not to make money, but to help the company get rid of stock. For this reason as well, they had an extremely low turn-around of 6 month to finish the game.
* It was his first project and there was no producer in the modern sense, so he drew as much as he could, and the game ended up a success. Of course, he didn't get any salary raise.
* The character choice of SFZero was done just before he had joined the team. It was only natural to have FF characters in a game that was supposed to happen between SF1 and 2. Sodom was chosen because he was such a difficult boss in FF, so people would remember him either visually or because they would hate his guts.
* Dan was the only character that was added after he had joined. Itsuno was not involved; some "bad person" wanted a parody of a certain character-Garcia, and he convinced Funamizu by saying he wouldn't take too much space if he used as much from Ryu/Ken as possible (he only had his "Yoyuussu" as original sprite). He was supposed to suck from the beginning: the idea was "if you used Gouki and you lose, shame on you" vs "if your opponent used Dan and you lose, shame on you". There was a different kind of pressure when someone challenged you with Dan: the player had to feel "I cannot lose against this guy!". The colors (pink and tea green) were also picked because they felt "the weakest".
And since the "Yoyussu" pose was really pushing it, they made it extremely rare (1/256 chance), so if you saw it, your friends wouldn't believe you!
* Originally, each character had 2 super combos, the zero counter and the Zero combo. All in all, it was just an evolution of SSF2X, easier to play for casuals. But it wouldn't have had enough impact, so one day, at 10 PM, Funamizu suddenly appeared and say "let's have 3 levels for each super combo. For tomorrow". So they worked their asses off during the night, showed him the results the following morning, and got half of them turned down. Fun times!
* Itsuno worked on Rose, Adon, Sodom and Birdie. He was small fish at the time, so he worked on secondary characters as they didn't let him touch Ryu or Ken. So he made them really weird, with Rose and her mirrors, her illusion and her anti-shoryuken, or Birdie with his anti-projectile or his non-0-frame-throw to make him different from Zangief. He was quite free to try new stuff!





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"Re(7):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 25 May 06:39post reply

quote:
and this Necro.


Ugh. The person drawing these doesn't really get most of these characters. I think it's also interesting to to point out that originally Necro wasn't Mr Fantastic. He only gained those Dhalsim level moves in Third Strike. Before that he was just kind of rubbery with his attacks.

quote:
Dan was the only character that was added after he had joined. Itsuno was not involved; some "bad person" wanted a parody of a certain character-Garcia, and he convinced Funamizu by saying he wouldn't take too much space if he used as much from Ryu/Ken as possible (he only had his "Yoyuussu" as original sprite).


But Dan has quite a lot of original sprites created (or just edited) especially for him. Hmm.





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"Re(8):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 25 May 19:01post reply

quote:
But Dan has quite a lot of original sprites created (or just edited) especially for him. Hmm.

Originally in Zero1? When I went quickly through the interview, I thought he meant there was only this pose in Zero1 and the rest got added in later revisions, but actually I think he also mention some attacks...
Sorry, I don't have time today, but if someone can go check and correct me, that would be great!





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"Re(7):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 25 May 20:04:post reply

quote:
Since Nobi is still sleeping, I'll start with Itsuno because I make the rules, baby.

* Itsuno, one of the creators of SF Zero, and also the experienced director of JUSTICE GAKUEN, and also Dragon Dogman and DMC.
* When he joined the company, new employees had to arrive 30 minutes earlier to clean up. And if they were finished before the start of work time, they would play on the office Neo-*** (1). They played a lot of KoF94. They were working at Capcom, and playing Capcom games were part of their work, so outside of worktime they were playing non-Capcom games. There was no debug department, so they were doing it themselves, testplaying their games to death.
(1) the console of the 100 Mega Shock.
* After a year of doing that, Funamizu arrived and asked him "would you want to work on Street Fighter Classic?"
- What's Street Fighter Classic?
- Well, we were right at the boom of the Super Famicon, so the project started with the aim of being adapted to SFC after the arcade version was released. BENGUS had drawn some characters of SF1, and they thought about doing a game on this period. One experienced employee created the story, Funamizu over-watched the whole project... but they needed a planner. So they came to me, a random guy who had been there for 1 year, and offered me the position.
I knew nothing! I was just a guy who liked to play fighting games, not how to make them! So of course I said "yes". The game became Street Fighter Zero.
* SF3 was already being worked

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


HOLY MOLY. Thanks for the translations Iggy! You've made my day several times over! All these revelations are draw dropping and shocking yet, somehow not exactly surprising!

I've always wondered, how did Capcom become such a whirlwind of creativity in the 90s? I can't tell you how many nights I've spent discussing this with friends. We concluded it was either

1) They had incredibly competent management that new how to put together great teams to design great games in a very deliberate, organised process (like Nintendo).

2) Management was a hot mess and they just happened to hire the perfect storm of talent that worked together under bizarre conditions to create some of the most memorable games ever, like life accidentally springing out of the primordial ooze (To the credit of the suits, they just cared about results and gave the developers a ton of freedom to experiment which is commendable)

The more I've worked in games (or just experienced the adult world in general) the more I figured it was the latter. I'm very glad to see the veil on this really cool part of gaming history being lifted. Thanks a million!






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Wed 25 May 20:16]

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"Re(8):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Thu 26 May 01:32post reply

Iggy is doing wonderful work.

What strikes me the most about the reminisces about old games is how ramshackle the production of some of these game were. It's amazing that the Alpha series came about because management went up to some guy who really didn't know what he was doing and said "Hey you, go make a video game!"





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"Re(7):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Thu 26 May 05:10post reply

quote:
Since Nobi is still sleeping, I'll start with Itsuno because I make the rules, baby.



Thank you a million times for translating this Iggy. I love you, keep making the rules please.





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"Re(9):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Thu 26 May 15:33post reply

quote:
But Dan has quite a lot of original sprites created (or just edited) especially for him. Hmm.
Originally in Zero1? When I went quickly through the interview, I thought he meant there was only this pose in Zero1 and the rest got added in later revisions, but actually I think he also mention some attacks...
Sorry, I don't have time today, but if someone can go check and correct me, that would be great!



From your translation I understood that creating Dan wouldn't be a big task, but doesn't he have a few unique normals, different special moves and voice acting on top of the taunt and win pose? If we compare him to Ryu in Z1 then he's really no less work than Ken.

I really liked Dan's look in the first game. But in the Zero 2 they changed his head and special move animations. By Zero 3 he was awful. So maybe cutting corners was the reason why he ended up likeable in the first game for me.





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"Re(10):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Thu 26 May 16:02post reply

quote:
But Dan has quite a lot of original sprites created (or just edited) especially for him. Hmm.
Originally in Zero1? When I went quickly through the interview, I thought he meant there was only this pose in Zero1 and the rest got added in later revisions, but actually I think he also mention some attacks...
Sorry, I don't have time today, but if someone can go check and correct me, that would be great!


From your translation I understood that creating Dan wouldn't be a big task, but doesn't he have a few unique normals, different special moves and voice acting on top of the taunt and win pose? If we compare him to Ryu in Z1 then he's really no less work than Ken.

I really liked Dan's look in the first game. But in the Zero 2 they changed his head and special move animations. By Zero 3 he was awful. So maybe cutting corners was the reason why he ended up likeable in the first game for me.



In the very first SFZ game I think the differences between Dan and the other Shotos were:
-Different Head
-Undershirt
-A few different normals
-Has Dankukyaku (Art of Fighting style hopping kick special) instead of Hurricane kick
-Dat taunt

Otherwise he shared the same base animations, including his stance.

In SFZ2 his eyebrows got thicker and he got more unique moves including his famous super taunt.

In SFZ3 he finally got his own original goofy bow legged stance, which was subsequently used in CvS and SvC and every game since.

You can see the evolution of his sprite here:
http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/dan-a.html

On a related note, I always loved Akuma's original stance in the Zero games. I wish they had used it for the SFIII series. Would have been great to see in CvS too.






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"Re(2):Re(10):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Thu 26 May 16:23post reply

One of the biggest differences between Zero 1 Dan and the later versions is that in Z1 he doesn't say "Gadoken" when he performs it, and the animation is also different.

He does say "Koryuken" when he performs his anti-air special, and he says it more akin to how Ryu and Ken say "Shoryuken" instead of the goofy way he speaks from Z2 and onwards. He also didn't shout "OYAJI!" or any other stuff until Z2. Basically they changed the voice acting for him completely.

This makes me believe that initially he was supposed to just be weak, inexperienced and too confident instead of just being a goofball loser.





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"Re(7):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Fri 27 May 11:33:post reply

quote:
Since Nobi is still sleeping, I'll start with Itsuno because I make the rules, baby.



Very nice translations! I've frontpaged it, hope you don't mind. It should certainly be read by more people.





[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 27 May 11:39]

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"Re(7):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Fri 27 May 16:34post reply

quote:
Since Nobi is still sleeping, I'll start with Itsuno because I make the rules, baby.

* Itsuno, one of the creators of SF Zero, and also the experienced director of JUSTICE GAKUEN, and also Dragon Dogman and DMC.
* When he joined the company, new employees had to arrive 30 minutes earlier to clean up. And if they were finished before the start of work time, they would play on the office Neo-*** (1). They played a lot of KoF94. They were working at Capcom, and playing Capcom games were part of their work, so outside of worktime they were playing non-Capcom games. There was no debug department, so they were doing it themselves, testplaying their games to death.
(1) the console of the 100 Mega Shock.
* After a year of doing that, Funamizu arrived and asked him "would you want to work on Street Fighter Classic?"
- What's Street Fighter Classic?



Thanks for this!

Itsuno is such a cool and talented dude. If anyone that remains at Capcom now deserves budget and support, it's that guy.

It's a damn shame Dragon's Dogma didn't fare better commercially. Maybe he'll get another shot at a sequel/ original idea at some point.





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"Re(9):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Sat 28 May 08:36post reply

So, he does mention Dan's attack as well. Does he actually mean sprites, or does he mean the attack data? Now I'm curious to see what the official translation will say...
Anyway, the idea of his sentence was that Funamizu was convinced because the guy argued adding Dan on top of Ryu and Ken wouldn't require a lot of space in the rom, thus limiting the costs.

Still hadn't got time to go into the JUSTICE FIST part, sorry.
However, two interesting entries have been added to the site: some preliminary sketches for Q and Remy. That's a curious choice to show these two characters already, but nobody will complain! (about Q at least).
I don't pretend I've seen all the published sketches for SF3, but I had never seen those, so I'm quite happy.

Q, as you can guess, remains quite mysterious.
For all of you cosplayers worldwide, take notice of the little key hole on the side of his head to open his mask.
He may have had a wind blow move. The animations are described as "he should move like he doesn't have his own will, or like a robot that is being controlled from a distance".

Remy's sketches are far earlier than Q's. The original starting point of the character was to make a pretty boy, an archetype that Capcom hadn't tried yet.
I'm surprised to read they were already working on him for 2nd Impact? I thought he was one of the very last characters added to 3rd strike...
One of the original ideas (for the first sketch) was to have him suffering from multiple personality disorder.
One of the possible fighting style he could have had was some sort of poison kung fu (like Lin in KOF or FANG in SF5).

.... Still doesn't manage to make Remy sound any interesting, though. I hope they have a lot more documents to show, this is probably my favourite part! Hopefully they will show Rufus and have some comments on King Kobra...





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"Re(10):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Sat 28 May 17:42post reply

quote:

Remy's sketches are far earlier than Q's. The original starting point of the character was to make a pretty boy, an archetype that Capcom hadn't tried yet.



That American Indian version is ugly as hell, how the heck they started from "pretty boy" concept and arrive at that design?
Fortunaly they changed back to something more pleasant.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Sat 28 May 20:00post reply

Speaking of Q, I guess the mystery is finally solved!





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"Re(3):Re(10):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Sun 29 May 03:18post reply

If we go by that logic then Rockman X is Ryu.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Sun 29 May 09:06post reply

quote:
If we go by that logic then Rockman X is Ryu.

This will happily lead us to discussion of whether the arc of his secret Shoryuken in Rockman X2 indicates he might actually be Ken.





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"JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 04:57:post reply

More working drafts, this time about Makoto. Same question as for Q and Remy: does anyone know if those drafts have been shown before? Have they just found a random folder full of Third Strike drafts? I guess Twelve is next?

Much less interesting, Blanka has a new haircut, and, to everyone's consternation, Cody's entry mentions his brother, which means Final Fight Streetwise is canon.

This whole website is quite puzzling, when you think of it. Of course, having such a treasure cove of historical information (old drafts and fascinating interviews) available online instead of in a limited edition artbook is a godsend, but why do that instead of releasing basing marketing information on the struggling SF5? We still don't know which is the character we're supposed to get in two days (they may announce it during the finals of today's tournament, except if the announcement is "everything is pushed back to June"). Ono is more silent than he has ever been. The future of the game is murky, the huge flaws of the infrastructure become less and less bearable with each new fighting game with a more robust online (Pokkn first, then GG Revelator), and still no official communication on anything. But please, have that drawing of Remy instead!

And even if SF5 didn't have these issues, I still don't understand the point of these drawings. Some of them are complete redesigns, such as Guy or Rufus, while some others are virtually unchanged, like Sagat or Fuerte. Some are likely contenders for being added to the game later, some are Fuerte. Are we supposed to understand "if those characters come back, that's what they'll look like"? Or is it just wishful thinking of the artist, "this is my dream Street Fighter game"?
The series started with some side characters (but neither Ed nor Helen, even though they are linked to the main story), then the entire cast from SF1, then Gorbatchov before Gki, then Mika's wrestling team, then the cyborg from SF The Movie The Game, then most (but not all) SF3, before jumping to Cody who had been left out of the Final Fight crew for some reason, and finally Blanka, the first SF2 character out of 50... Is it a hint about which characters will be added after Urien? Is the fact Sakura still not there a hint, or does it mean the artist just doesn't have a clue about how to age her properly?
Out of boredom, I made a list of characters that have been playable in past SF games and are missing from the game (including the first batch of DLC) and the site: Honda, Dee Jay, Fei Long, T. Hawk; Dan, Sakura, Rolento, Satsui Ry, all the dolls, Ingrid; Gill, Twelve; Viper, Abel, Hakan, Oni; Captain Sawada. I'm sure they will be added in the coming weeks, but...
Is it just a guy drawing random characters to his liking? Maybe that's all of Capcom's marketing department, and the guy decided that there was no saving this ship and preferred to have fun instead? Are they going to make a popularity contest, "which one of these characters would you want to see added to SF5"? I am puzzled.

ANYWAY, TIME FOR SOME JUSTI...

Itsuno: Wait, I want to talk about Star Gladiator first!
- Ah, true, Star Gladiator was a thing too, now you mention it... We did talk about it during Akiman's interview (English version here)
- speaking of, at some point of SG's development, I got shouted at pretty badly by him.
- What did you do?
- Well, there's this character, Rimgal, who's a dinosaur, and he was arched forward like a T-Rex, which meant his hitbox was pushed forward... to the point his head was almost clipping inside the opponent's belly at the start of the round. And since everyone had a weapon, that mean most attacks would touch him immediately... So I asked if I could give him a straighter posture, like the old designs of the T-Rex, because the new one looks lame. To which Akiman replied "YOU'RE NOT THE ONE TO DECIDE WHAT LOOKS LAME AND WHAT DOESN'T". I cowered in fear and backed out: I was still a new employee at the time!
- Haha, fun times. True, Rimgal has a mace on top of that, it must have been difficult... Well, enough with Star Gladiator.
- But I only talked about Rimgal!

JUSTICE!!

-Tell us how Justice Gakuen was created!
- First, we wanted to do a polygonal fighting game in 60 FPS. When I joined the Star Gladiator team as a planner, it was already decided it would run at 30FPS, because of the extra effects and the background. But you can barely call a 30FPS game a fighting game, so our game was going to be first and foremost 60 FPS. Then, it was going to play on a 2D plane. At that time, it wasn't called Justice Gakuen yet, it was called JUSTICE FIST.
- .... what?
- And the story was about the strongest martial artists in the world gathering for a tournament. Mufufu.
- How original!
- And when I showed the working document to the older employees, they just said "BO-RING".
- Ahahahaha !
- That made me think. I wanted the game to sell. A lot. So I looked for a theme that would pick the interest of everybody. And everyone has gone to school! So I moved the action to a high school setting, so more people could relate. And then the game would be very light-hearted and silly: the class president would be decided by a fist fight! We'll have 40 characters! And so on, and so on.
But it started to be unfocused, so I paused to think. When suddenly one of the programmer shouted "Hey, look on screen! We can have 3 characters at once! 3!!!" which immediately led to the double team moves (since these animations are 2 characters hitting 1 character). That created a strong commercial hook for the game.
And since it had become a team battle game, we decided to make it a battle between schools. Then, the topic moved to "the story will be about beating an evil school!" "I love sports manga, let's make one school that would be all about that!" and so onn. I took inspiration from my own high school to make the Taiy Gakuen.
Finally, we wanted to keep the idea of "school" in the title, but we also wanted to keep the original root of Justice Fist.
So, Justice Gakuen.
It sounds silly, which is just right with the atmosphere we were aiming for.
Since we were making a school story, we needed a female teacher in a white blouse. Hideo was a character that Akiman had drawn for another project, so we asked him if we could use him for our game. Batsu was originally from a ninja school, which is why he still wears a chain mail under his school uniform.
We needed more female characters as well. It's now quite common, but at the time it was quite strange to have a team of two guys and one girl. We could get away with it because of the whole "team battle in high school" setting.
Finally, we worked on the story. We wanted the stories of all characters to cross with each other, and they would unfold in several directions, with several different endings.
And we really, really didn't want the game to fail, so we asked for Sakura to be in the game. She had a school uniform, that was enough.
- She was a sort of insurance policy!
- Exactly! Also, we liked Ibuki's school uniform in SF3, so we asked if we could use it for Hinata (which makes Ibuki a student of Taiy Gakuen!). That was another sort of insurance policy. See, it's the same!
We had some trouble with the hardware to have long hair and tight skirt (Mrs Kyko) and wobbling boobs (Tiffany), but we did our best and it worked!
And also, the opening was also a first in the industry: an anime using a palette of 256 colors!
Well, only 3 drawings actually. But it was a first! Can you imagine how powerful the Playstation hardware was!!!
-I was a student myself when the game was released, and even my friends who didn't play videogames liked Justice Gakuen. When they didn't know who to pick, I just said "use Gan". He was strong, after all.
- Why Gan of all characters...?
We really created the game to make it as easy to get into as possible. The setting, using only 4 buttons... Since we were building it with the PS1 port in mind, we reduced the number of buttons from the very start. Then, the commands were very easy and lenient, so that anyone could perform combos, or counter attacks... And the team attack was simply "press 3 buttons". AND you started the round with a full gauge, to encourage players to use our killer feature from the very beginning of the round. It also allowed the rounds to end quicker, which means the income in the arcades was very good. That's the reason why the "full gauge from the start" was later used in Zero 3. They even came to our desk to ask if it was OK to include it in their game as well!
Then, one day, Funamizu came to me and said "we'll make the consumer version of Justice Gakuen our main release of the summer, but you need to sell a million minimum". And we had only 3 months to make the home version...
So we thought about what we could reasonably do in 3 months. And the answer was the 熱血青春日記.
We had an extremely short time to do it, but it allowed the game to be popular with people who didn't care for fighting games. I'm very happy we made it! Our secret hope was that players who didn't play fighting games would buy the game for the dating sim, and after playing it for a while they would have learned the bases of fighting games and be able to play them!
- I loved the tests that you had to pass with Hayato at the end of each semester! It mixed with the flow and the setting of the game very naturally, and it forced you to become better without knowing it!
- We wanted everyone to do their best to date Natsu, so they would have to do a little effort in order to get her. Or make Bowman blush. And ultimately, you would end up with a character that could do a screw pile driver and a shin shoryuken at the same time!
- You could not only chose which school to go to, but also change your appearance. You learned your moves naturally during your high school everyday life!
- I like to create stuff, not only in videogames, so I love games where you can edit and create your own thing. I think it was an inspiration for Dragon's Dogma later on...
- To finish this interview: when will you make a sequel to Justice Gakuen?
- If I could decide, I would make one right now! I really want Batsu, Kysuke and Hinata to have their graduation ceremony. The series ended when they started their 3rd year...
- When I was working under you, you would often come to my desk to talk about Justice Gakuen, and how the scenario was already ready...
- It's true! The scenario is ready since the year 2000! People should start a twitter campain #WewantJusticeGakuen3 #ジャスティス学園3制作希望 !
- Thank you for your time. In the end, we mostly talked about Justice Gakuen... Maybe one day we'll do another interview to talk about Power Stone of Capcom vs SNK!

Edit: LET'S DO THIS!!!





[this message was edited by Iggy on Mon 30 May 05:01]

Mosquiton
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"Re(1):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 06:37post reply

So much interesting stuff in here.

quote:

So we thought about what we could reasonably do in 3 months. And the answer was the 熱血青春日記.
We had an extremely short time to do it, but it allowed the game to be popular with people who didn't care for fighting games. I'm very happy we made it!



Three months? Amazing. I wonder how many people they had working on this project. It would be interesting to know how the team size for this project would compares to the number of people who are currently working on SFV....

quote:

And the team attack was simply "press 3 buttons". AND you started the round with a full gauge, to encourage players to use our killer feature from the very beginning of the round. It also allowed the rounds to end quicker, which means the income in the arcades was very good. That's the reason why the "full gauge from the start" was later used in Zero 3.



Even though this seems to be a small decision, I feel like "full gauge from the start" and "multiple stocks of super bar" have to be a substantial reasons that Alpha/Zero 3 and Justice Gakuen/RS were so appealing to casual players. I've observed many casual players in various fighting games treat "landing a super" as an achievement that's almost as satisfying as winning a match.

Even if they know they're going to lose, they will be sure to throw out a super if at all possible (the irresistible "Hail Mary"). It's exciting place that big bet, essentially. And even if you got completely outplayed, if you do happen to land a super on your opponent you know you did at least enough damage for them to feel it.

Great stuff here overall. I'll preserve the call to action here:

LET'S DO THIS!!!





/ / /

Iggy
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"Re(2):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 09:30post reply

The biggest thing I'll take from that interview is that appealing to people who don't play fighting games was already a big topic back then, and Justice Gakuen found several clever ways to trick people into buying the game, learn how to guard cancel AND be happy about it.
While I was translating I couldn't help thinking of Ono being all "really? People wanted single-player content in SF5? By jove, I'll be damned" and shake my head sadly.





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"Re(2):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 09:38:post reply

At last, the hour is at hand...my dream of Justice Gakuen taking over every thread like Dracula is nearly complete.

Great translation, Iggy! Really preserves the fun of the original.
quote:

Three months? Amazing. I wonder how many people they had working on this project. It would be interesting to know how the team size for this project would compares to the number of people who are currently working on SFV....
Even if the actual resources needed to make a life sim are quite limited, it must have been insane work for Edayan's team and the scriptwriters, plus adding on the other bonus modes. Speaking of bonuses:

1. Since Itsuno more or less went to Taiyou Gakuen, it's important to reproduce the school's joyous stage theme here.

2. Bonus translation caption on Hinata's picture: She mastered martial arts via Ken Masters' distance learning program!?!?!? Ha! I thought I knew my Justice Gakuen pretty well, but I sure don't remember ever noticing this wonderful bit in the game or my guides.

3. Bad Ending: PS1 Justice Gakuen 1 sold 270,000 copies, while PS1 Justice Gakuen Nekketsu Seishun Nikki 2 sold another 100,000. DC Moero Justice Gakuen sold 60,000. If only it'd been PS2.

4. Better Ending: The PS1 sales aren't bad. It's, ah, more than Street Fighter EX (or any version of SFIII ever). A lot of Japan-affiliated friends abroad know/love Justice Gakuen, but I wonder how it sold internationally in general. One of the greatest finds ever was seeing it played by the characters in My Schoolmate the Barbarian.

5. Best Ending: continuing the campaign, HECK YEAH JUSTICE 3 PLEASE





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 30 May 11:05]

Iggy
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"Re(3):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 10:57post reply

quote:
Even if the actual resources needed to make a life sim are quite limited, it must have been insane work for Akiman's team and the scriptwriters, plus adding on the other bonus modes.
Small correction: I don't think Akiman was involved at all in Justice Gakuen.
All the artwork were made by Edayan, the real Secret Amazing Master that Capcom kept under wraps for the great 1999 war that didn't happened. If they were doing Justice 3, I would be worried for the voice actors (15 years is a looong time) but more importantly for Edayan. Being locked in MH dungeon for all these years must have been tough...

As for Hinata, I actually thought it was the class Iinch that learned fighting with Ken's course (something in her dialogue in Seishun Nikki 2). I probably had it all messed up with the time. She's such a fantastic (and fantastically bad) character in Moejus!

The biggest problem of that series is that you can't really enjoy it without the dating sim, and Capcom localization being what it is, a Justice Gakuen 3 would just die internationally...
How is the localization of Gyakuten in English? Is it passable at least?





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"Re(4):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 11:10post reply

quote:
Small correction: I don't think Akiman was involved at all in Justice Gakuen.
All the artwork were made by Edayan, the real Secret Amazing Master that Capcom kept under wraps for the great 1999 war that didn't happened.
OH MY GOD you are completely right, I am a thought criminal. I forgot all about Edayan, who is the greatest. Please imagine Hayato forcing me to do push-ups and then whacking me with his shinai, which he frequently did to my character in the life sim.

You're right about the absence of the life sim being a problem: the DC game never appealed to me as a result. While most of the Americans I know who love the game all have some level of familiarity with Japanese, several I've played with have never gone through the life sim at all, so maybe it's okay.

It's too bad. I don't know anything about what Capcom does in English, but it seems like people enjoy "Phoenix Wright"...if only they'd had the same writers back then.





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"Re(5):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 11:19post reply

All I wanted was to date Momoko... I'm sure she would have had Buletta-level quotes.
Plus another secret rendez-vous with Hayato and Kyko after school, of course.

Good to know Phoenix Wright is competent. The final hurdle would be to convince the higher-ups at Capcom USA to spend the same money in a game about convincing Tiffany to wear a full Sasquatch costume.





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"Re(3):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 11:27post reply

quote:
it's important to reproduce the school's joyous stage theme here.




Although the Aoharu Station Square song of Project Justice fills me with negative feelings (I'm not even sure why, because it's not like I heard it many more times than the others), I actually like the Project Justice Taiyou Gakuen songs more than the Rival Schools ones. The Project Justice soundtrack is almost certainly one of the funkiest ones to ever grace a fighting game!

I imagine that for Gedo High, which features two oldschool Banchou-type characters, they decided to take an older funk sound for that older sense of cool. This part in particular sounds like it could've been lifted from a 70's kung-fu or blaxploitation movie!

While the harmonica definitely helps the free-wheeling feeling of the Taiyou song, the actual playing of the harmonica is not nearly exuberant enough to match the guitar. That aside, I still love this song.

The other Taiyou song isn't quite as drivingly energetic, but it's endearingly crunchy and funky!





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"Re(5):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 12:24:post reply

quote:
Small correction: I don't think Akiman was involved at all in Justice Gakuen.
All the artwork were made by Edayan, the real Secret Amazing Master that Capcom kept under wraps for the great 1999 war that didn't happened. OH MY GOD you are completely right, I am a thought criminal. I forgot all about Edayan, who is the greatest. Please imagine Hayato forcing me to do push-ups and then whacking me with his shinai, which he frequently did to my character in the life sim.



How sad, to be forgotten.


But to chime in, I played the game without the dating sim and still enjoyed it a good bit. It's the kind of game where you can play every character once you build up your basic competency, so being able to swap characters whenever to whomever kept it interesting. The characters already express a lot of personality through their design, and the game is basically fun, IMO.

Even without the dating element though, the game is so culturally Japanese that's I guess it couldn't hope to escape being a niche title internationally. Still, niches were made to be filled.





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Mon 30 May 12:32]

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"Re(4):Re(10):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Mon 30 May 13:05:post reply

quote:
If we go by that logic then Rockman X is Ryu.



Surely you mean Ryu is secretly Magma Dragoon.

quote:
Same question as for Q and Remy: does anyone know if those drafts have been shown before? Have they just found a random folder full of Third Strike drafts?


I don't remember for sure seeing Native American Remy before but I am almost certain most if not all of these Makotos were shown previously. Maybe in one Gamest special issues I foolishly sold, or in an issue of CFC.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Mon 30 May 13:09]

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"Re(5):Re(10):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Mon 30 May 13:41post reply

..... So, I was randomly checking twitter and after hearing an spontaneous surge of horrible cries of despair and screams of utter dissapointment; I could naturally deduce that SFV had revealed another character.

Today has beenwas a good day....






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"Re(1):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 15:04post reply

quote:
This whole website is quite puzzling, when you think of it. Of course, having such a treasure cove of historical information (old drafts and fascinating interviews) available online instead of in a limited edition artbook is a godsend, but why do that instead of releasing basing marketing information on the struggling SF5? We still don't know which is the character we're supposed to get in two days (they may announce it during the finals of today's tournament, except if the announcement is "everything is pushed back to June").

I think it's a total coincidence but at least that entire discussion coincided pretty well with this weekend's reveal that Ibuki would be wearing her "Hinata" uniform.

quote:
That's the reason why the "full gauge from the start" was later used in Zero 3. They even came to our desk to ask if it was OK to include it in their game as well!

Huh! Funamizu was a tough boss.

quote:
Hideo was a character that Akiman had drawn for another project, so we asked him if we could use him for our game.

Hideo is the old teacher. I wonder what game that was supposed to be.





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"Re(1):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 17:46post reply

That Akiman inteview on Street Fighter II... Akiman was married? Akiman was married to someone doing portrait art for Super Street Fighter II?!





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"Re(2):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 17:51post reply

quote:

Hideo was a character that Akiman had drawn for another project, so we asked him if we could use him for our game.
Hideo is the old teacher. I wonder what game that was supposed to be.



I wouldn't be surprised if that were a Street Fighter design that didn't make it - I always found it amusing how his style resembles that of Ryu and his martial art lineage, and how the characters in that lineage for the most part lack family names (Ryu, Gouken, Gouki and Goutetsu are known by no other names) and non-martial-arts civilian lives, while Hideo Shimazu is supposed to practice Shimazu-style karate IIRC. Oh well, at least he managed to Shoryuken it up with Ryu and Ken in NxC.





...!!

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"Re(2):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 19:18:post reply

quote:
That Akiman inteview on Street Fighter II... Akiman was married? Akiman was married to someone doing portrait art for Super Street Fighter II?!



Was he ... were Akiman and Kinu Nishimura married??? I mean, according to the interview his ex wife was a female artist who did the portraits for Super Street Fighter 2. Who else could it be?? (well I'm sure there were lots of other production artists there that we don't know by name but I WANT TO BELIEVE)






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Mon 30 May 19:20]

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"Re(2):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Mon 30 May 20:00post reply

quote:
That Akiman inteview on Street Fighter II... Akiman was married? Akiman was married to someone doing portrait art for Super Street Fighter II?!

Yup. I wonder if they broke up because she dared touch his art...

Today on CFN: roughs for SF3's character select screen!





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"Re(3):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Tue 31 May 07:26post reply

Random Thoughts:

Gah, but those early rough sketches for Makoto are truly rough. Some of those look straight out of Toshinden while the more traditional outfits are, I assume, from when she was Ryu's kid sister. Is the scratched up gi Ryu's old outfit from when he fought a bear in the "Ryu Final" manga?

I do believe Iggy is right about the reasons for CFN's strange turn. This site was probably going to be all SF5 all the time but since everybody associated with that game is still running around like a chicken with its head cut off they had to switch topics. It's odd that CFN is one of the few things associated with SF5 that launched successfully.

The story about Akiman getting fussy about his dinosaur design is great. I had honestly forgotten about that character but now I can easily picture him skipping about the screen while swinging his skull club from side to side.

I never realized that long hair and a tight skirt would be hard to render at the same time but I appreciate the hard work the programmers did to create something so necessary.





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"Re(4):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Tue 31 May 07:45post reply

For Makoto, all the site says is that "from the very first sketches, she was already wearing a kimono too large for her and she was already inheriting a crumbling dj she thought it was her duty to restore. The kimono is her dad's, which is why she has a black belt. The fact she has a weak older brother appeared later, around the second image from the bottom. I think it was Ikeno's idea?"
I haven't heard about her being Ryu's sister at some point, but I'm not an expert on SF3.





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"Re(1):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Tue 31 May 08:46post reply

quote:
This whole website is quite puzzling, when you think of it. Of course, having such a treasure cove of historical information (old drafts and fascinating interviews) available online instead of in a limited edition artbook is a godsend, but why do that instead of releasing basing marketing information on the struggling SF5? We still don't know which is the character we're supposed to get in two days (they may announce it during the finals of today's tournament, except if the announcement is "everything is pushed back to June"). Ono is more silent than he has ever been. The future of the game is murky, the huge flaws of the infrastructure become less and less bearable with each new fighting game with a more robust online (Pokkn first, then GG Revelator), and still no official communication on anything. But please, have that drawing of Remy instead!

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
I think it s Capcom's head in the sand doing the damage control. Im no expert on game development behind the scenes but I feel like Capcom has to report to Sony somehow? Anyway I think this is the way to show they care about casuals after they flipped the bird and (if i must be dramatic) spit the face of casuals by saying "our franchise doesnt need you at all". They re maybe throwing one or two intern for to create single player content outside of game. And I think since SFV is planned to be seasonal they cant show every unused art yet so they first showed unused design for SFV newcomers and now they are swimming around lore and old characters now. Since it's semi interesting mostly and kind of hush hushing skepticism about Capcoms care for fans I think it might go further into the history (SF 2010 here they come!).
After Megaman mistake I think they understand they can't choose between fans anymore. I hope in ten years or more we will read what kind of shitstorm is going on behind the scenes now.

SO I'm actually excited and interested in Capcoms classic Ip's after they started to show signals of notching down the arrogance.





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"Re(4):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Tue 31 May 09:08:post reply

quote:
I do believe Iggy is right about the reasons for CFN's strange turn. This site was probably going to be all SF5 all the time but since everybody associated with that game is still running around like a chicken with its head cut off they had to switch topics. It's odd that CFN is one of the few things associated with SF5 that launched successfully.


I just noticed something looked off in the CFN web page logo. The word "Portal" is misspelled, and it done so directly under a correct spelling of the same word. Just a minor thing to notice, considering Capcom's SF5 related issues.

"CFN Portal: Capcom Fighters Network Potal Site"





[this message was edited by Baines on Tue 31 May 09:10]

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"Re(5):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Tue 31 May 10:01post reply

quote:
For Makoto, all the site says is that "from the very first sketches, she was already wearing a kimono too large for her and she was already inheriting a crumbling dj she thought it was her duty to restore. The kimono is her dad's, which is why she has a black belt. The fact she has a weak older brother appeared later, around the second image from the bottom. I think it was Ikeno's idea?"
I haven't heard about her being Ryu's sister at some point, but I'm not an expert on SF3.


I seem to remember reading something along the lines that the SF3 developers were initially thinking of having a karate kid who was the younger sister/brother of Ryu but they decided against it since it made Ryu look like a jerk for leaving his only family to go wander the earth. Trouble is, I can't find the citation for that factoid. Or did that character turn into Sakura instead of Makoto? Or did I dream the whole thing? For now I guess we should trust the CFN Potal since they would never make a mistake.





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"Re(5):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Tue 31 May 13:13post reply

quote:
Small correction: I don't think Akiman was involved at all in Justice Gakuen.
All the artwork were made by Edayan, the real Secret Amazing Master that Capcom kept under wraps for the great 1999 war that didn't happened. OH MY GOD you are completely right, I am a thought criminal. I forgot all about Edayan, who is the greatest. Please imagine Hayato forcing me to do push-ups and then whacking me with his shinai, which he frequently did to my character in the life sim.



You are correct in that Edayan did most of the official art. However, I believe Akiman is still listed in the credits and there is a good chance he is the main character designer. I used to assume that whoever did the official illustrations also created the characters. So Third Strike = Ikeno. Power Stone = Bengus etc. However, after seeing a presentation from Ikeno (and interviewing him briefly), I am now under the impression that Akira Yasuda was the main character designer on most of those titles. He would come up with the character concepts and sketch out the overall designs before handing them off to the other artists to make the final illustrations. Here is an example of his work on Powerstone:

http://images.onesite.com/capcom-unity.com/user/powerstone/large/21-c01.gif?v=229800

If I recall correctly (my memory is hazy on this one) I believe Bengus even once said that Akiman was the creator of Gouki/Akuma, not him as many people assume.

I think this is why Akiman is still considered "senpai" to all these great artists. They have arguably become his equal when it comes to illustration ability. But when it comes to pure character design, he is THE BEST.

There's probably more back and fourth going on behind the scenes, and I know he didn't come up with every single character himself, but in general, if Akiman is listed in the credits for a game, he probably designed the characters, even if he didn't do the final art.






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"Re(5):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Tue 31 May 14:26:post reply

quote:
For Makoto, all the site says is that "from the very first sketches, she was already wearing a kimono too large for her and she was already inheriting a crumbling dj she thought it was her duty to restore. The kimono is her dad's, which is why she has a black belt. The fact she has a weak older brother appeared later, around the second image from the bottom. I think it was Ikeno's idea?"
I haven't heard about her being Ryu's sister at some point, but I'm not an expert on SF3.



Iggy. Thanks again for your translations. You are doing god's work TT___TT

I swear I've seen early concepts of Ryu's little sister before, but I can't find them at the moment. I just flipped through my copy of Street Fighter Eternal Challenge and it wasn't in there. Google isn't of much help either.

As for Makoto, I always assumed she was basically Akane Tendo if her dad was the legendary real life "god hand" martial artist, Mas Oyama, founder of the Kyokushin school of Karate. She has all of his signature moves like his bone breaking punch and knife hand.

Also, i picked up an issue of Weeky Shonen Magazine from 1978 a while back. I was surprised to find a martial arts comic with a masked man who aside from the mask is dressed exactly the same as Makoto, right down to the flowing double tailed scarf:

https://twitter.com/Richmond_Lee/status/516688027931148289

(looks like he's fighting El Fuerte in the above panels hehe)

I don't know what this comic is called, but it must have influenced Makoto's design (maybe even unconsciously) as this was the most popular manga magazine during the late 70s.

As an aside, I just have to say that I love Ikeno's Third Strike illustration of Makoto SO MUCH. He perfectly captures the feeling of a young stocky Asian woman karateka. I love that he wasn't afraid to give her muscular forearms and big chiselled feet.






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Tue 31 May 15:42]

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"Re(6):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Tue 31 May 15:03post reply

Though I'm sure it's largely because I'm used to seeing Makoto in her finished form, I think it's quite interesting how the sense of her as this serious karateka character improves as her design simplifies. As she boils down to just the gi from all the wacky 90s fashion elements and is given a less lanky and more powerful figure, and gets a more energetic short hairdo, she really becomes something! The little touch like the hairclip is a pretty delightful feminine addition that doesn't make her a silly girl, even though in her final version it was gone. The scarf is another thing that is heroic and allows for all kinds of interesting lines and movements without being something that at a glance seems totally out of place on the serious karateka.... though in real life, it would be a pretty ridiculous thing for a serious fighter to be wearing into a fight.

It's interesting to me that she can be as interesting and as distinctive as she is in spite of how simple a design she is. If you just said "short haired, athletic, serious person in a karate gi" it sounds like a pretty boring and forgettable design.





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"Re(1):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Tue 31 May 20:47post reply

quote:
This whole website is quite puzzling, when you think of it. Of course, having such a treasure cove of historical information (old drafts and fascinating interviews) available online instead of in a limited edition artbook is a godsend, but why do that instead of releasing basing marketing information on the struggling SF5?


That's more or less what I was thinking after seeing multiple lore updates on this site, together with Kiki's artworks..."is Capcom paying more attention to telling us about SF background story and development than to actually raise SFV's disheartening sales?". Does tournament activity grant Capcom so much money they don't give a fuck about the "non-eSports" side of the game?

I hope I'll be able to read this thread carefully as soon as possible, it's fantastic.





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"Re(6):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Wed 1 Jun 00:43post reply

quote:
Also, i picked up an issue of Weeky Shonen Magazine from 1978 a while back. I was surprised to find a martial arts comic with a masked man who aside from the mask is dressed exactly the same as Makoto, right down to the flowing double tailed scarf:

https://twitter.com/Richmond_Lee/status/516688027931148289

(looks like he's fighting El Fuerte in the above panels hehe)

I don't know what this comic is called, but it must have influenced Makoto's design (maybe even unconsciously) as this was the most popular manga magazine during the late 70s.

Is Makoto's scarf a bit of borrowed fashion sense from Shotaro Ishinomori? He was a man of a thousand neck scarves and it's not like Capcom has ever been shy about referencing his work.

It's amazing how popular neck scarves are on action characters since it seems like a really bad idea to wear something like that during a fight.





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"Re(7):JUSTICE FIST" , posted Wed 1 Jun 02:28post reply

quote:

Is Makoto's scarf a bit of borrowed fashion sense from Shotaro Ishinomori? He was a man of a thousand neck scarves and it's not like Capcom has ever been shy about referencing his work.

It's amazing how popular neck scarves are on action characters since it seems like a really bad idea to wear something like that during a fight.


I think it may have been to give her a slight bit of visual flair, since here outfit may have been considered plain (kind of like Ryu's hachimaki is colored red against his white gi). And scarves also are super dynamic looking when animated (Hotsuma in the PS2 Shinobi is a good example of this) so that may lead to their use. You're right though, they can be super inconvenient and downright bad for active folks.





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"Re(1):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Fri 23 Sep 07:48post reply

OK. You know what, CFJ portal? I give up. You have won. Do whatever you want.
Yeah, make up a bunch of ugly yoga masters if you like. Talk about Shadow and Shadow Lady if that can make you feel better. How nice of you to at least remind us they are from a parallel universe and not part of the main SF line.
Reintroduce Zen as part of the canon, but as bangaihen for some reason? Yeah, sure.

But when you start playing with my heart by introducing this guy, or that guy, and not as guests or passing note but as character that are part of the universe of lore of SF5, I don't know what to say anymore. Of course there is an adequate copyright at the bottom of the page, but adding that this girl and that one are part of Karin's exclusive club is just nasty at this point.

What good is a world when I cannot say "what next? Skullomania?" and then laugh, knowing that Skullomania will never be next and I can sleep peacefully?

...
...
... If I had to chose between Akira from Justice Gakuen and her as guest character for the next DLC, it would be an extremely difficult decision.





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"Re(2):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Fri 23 Sep 15:23post reply

quote:
OK. You know what, CFJ portal? I give up. You have won. Do whatever you want.
Yeah, make up a bunch of ugly yoga masters if you like. Talk about Shadow and Shadow Lady if that can make you feel better. How nice of you to at least remind us they are from a parallel universe and not part of the main SF line.
Reintroduce Zen as part of the canon, but as bangaihen for some reason? Yeah, sure.

But when you start playing with my heart by introducing this guy, or that guy, and not as guests or passing note but as character that are part of the universe of lore of SF5, I don't know what to say anymore. Of course there is an adequate copyright at the bottom of the page, but adding that this girl and that one are part of Karin's exclusive club is just nasty at this point.

What good is a world when I cannot say "what next? Skullomania?" and then laugh, knowing that Skullomania will never be next and I can sleep peacefully?

...
...
... If I had to chose between Akira from Justice Gakuen and [URL=http://game.

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


Ah so nice to see some love for the EX games! SFEX is awesome. I'll fight anyone who says otherwise! Well, the first two were awesome anyway!

Great characters, and I've said this a million times, but it introduced so many concepts that would become core parts of the mainlines series later (command throws, throw cancels, canceling normal specials into supers, really good training mode etc). And man, what an awesome cast!

People often get the impression that I hate stuff just cos it's 3d and not 2d. But this was an odd case where I couldn't understand why everyone hated these games for being 3d, because they played great and looked great too! The blocky PSOne characters in this look infinitely better than SFV (I'll fight anyone on this too! >:])

Also the OST is killer. Best workout music ever (I trained myself to run 10k to that soundtrack!)






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"Re(3):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Mon 26 Sep 07:30post reply

It was wise of the CFJ Portal to only list most of the good EX characters and not get into losers like Allen Snider. Nostalgia can only go so far. I wonder if there will be an entry about how you would routinely visit other planets during EX matches?

It also appears that CFJ is still reporting on Capcom Fighting All Stars. There's a great deal of nostalgia out there for a game that was never released.







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"Re(4):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Mon 26 Sep 19:39post reply

quote:
It also appears that CFJ is still reporting on Capcom Fighting All Stars. There's a great deal of nostalgia out there for a game that was never released.

I never knew the director of CFAS was also the director of KOF98!
He looks like a nice guy, but also... well, he's probably right saying the failure of the game was his own lack of skill.
It's a bit annoying they start talking about stuff but then censor or blur the most juicy bits.
Like, why say there was another hidden character after Gouki and Demitri and even put his silhouette (that looks a lot like K' in my opinion) if you're not going to show the full artwork or even say his name? That's frustrating.







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"Re(5):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 27 Sep 03:13post reply

Ok, Capcom should go one step further and made Darkstalkers canon to SF Universe. Maybe this way they can put BBH/Bulleta to the game.







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"Re(6):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 27 Sep 11:36post reply

quote:
What good is a world when I cannot say "what next? Skullomania?" and then laugh, knowing that Skullomania will never be next and I can sleep peacefully?
Keep sacrificing those goats! After Peter the Cop was playable in story mode, I knew anything was possible. I think Capcom was onto something by incorporating Justice Gakuen into Street Fighter from the start, so our lord and master cannot be far away, as long as we truly believe.





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"Re(7):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Mon 3 Oct 21:28post reply

Good grief.





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"Re(8):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 4 Oct 02:05post reply

quote:
Good grief.



The guy has a command grab with no whiff animation. He deserves some respect!





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"Re(1):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 22 Nov 20:14post reply

The interview about SF3's characters is full of amazing droplets of information.
Among other things:
* Contrary to popular belief, Ryu was supposed to be in the game from the beginning (at least that's what they say here)
* Elena was always supposed to be African. And African women often have an amazing body and legs (....cough), so she uses capoera (which was extremely hard, because there was very few resources to learn about capoera in these pre-internet days).
* The reason Ibuki take so much more rom than the others is her hair.
* Sean has been made as a quick copy-and-paste job when it became apparent that Hugo would not be ready for release. I can't imagine how fast they had to work!
* Of course, a lot of work has been done on animation and sound effects. In order to have a better feedback, they worked a lot on the hit animations: there are 40 notebook pages of hit animations alone. Of course, many of those didn't make it in the final game, but it's interesting that SF5's special KO pauses (the noodle bowl, the sarcophagus, etc) come directly from SF3.





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"Re(2):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 22 Nov 21:39post reply

Ryu planned from the beginning in SFIII? Talk about mythbusting. That's easily the most interesting piece of info to me. LOL at Ibuki's hair eating up a lot of ROM space xD

I'm honestly glad that Hugo wasn't complete in time for NG because I need joke characters in a fighting game, they bring that touch of lame lightheartedness you wouldn't be able to achieve in any other way IMO. That's part of why I like Rashid a lot: I think his obsession with social networking, "VIP" seeking and technology would fit a joke character well.

Thank you for these interesting bits Iggy ^^





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"Re(2):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Tue 22 Nov 22:33post reply

quote:

* Of course, a lot of work has been done on animation and sound effects. In order to have a better feedback, they worked a lot on the hit animations: there are 40 notebook pages of hit animations alone. Of course, many of those didn't make it in the final game, but it's interesting that SF5's special KO pauses (the noodle bowl, the sarcophagus, etc) come directly from SF3.



I would honestly love a whole artbook with that stuff and reference drawings for sprites and the like. It is amazing to see what the idea was on paper and see it transformed into a sprite.







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"Re(3):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 23 Nov 00:38post reply

Interesting stuff! I'm glad they officially squashed that "Ryu not in the game" silliness since that never made any sense. Did people think that Ryu and Ken were last minute additions built out of Sean sprites?





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"Re(3):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 23 Nov 01:05post reply

quote:

* Of course, a lot of work has been done on animation and sound effects. In order to have a better feedback, they worked a lot on the hit animations: there are 40 notebook pages of hit animations alone. Of course, many of those didn't make it in the final game, but it's interesting that SF5's special KO pauses (the noodle bowl, the sarcophagus, etc) come directly from SF3.


I would honestly love a whole artbook with that stuff and reference drawings for sprites and the like. It is amazing to see what the idea was on paper and see it transformed into a sprite.



Oh man, I would do almost anything to get my hands on that production book! It must be full of so much POWER!

Iggy thanks so much for posting those highlights!

It makes a lot of sense that Elena was always African from the start. Did people assume she was Brazilian because she does Capoeira? Capoeira was created by Brazilian slaves as a way to retain some wisp of their original culture and also to learn self defense in the guise of dance. I always figured Elena was practicing whatever Capoeira was descended from.

Come to think of it, was she the first Capoeira practitioner in videogames? I just looked it up and SFIII came out a month before Tekken 3 which is the other game I remember having a Capoeira fighter. I can't recall any earlier ones.






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"Re(4):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 23 Nov 01:40post reply

quote:
Come to think of it, was she the first Capoeira practitioner in videogames? I just looked it up and SFIII came out a month before Tekken 3 which is the other game I remember having a Capoeira fighter. I can't recall any earlier ones.


Richard Meyer from Fatal Fury 1 and Bob Wilson from Fatal Fury 3.
FF3 came out two years before SFIII.





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"Re(5):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 23 Nov 01:57post reply

quote:
Come to think of it, was she the first Capoeira practitioner in videogames? I just looked it up and SFIII came out a month before Tekken 3 which is the other game I remember having a Capoeira fighter. I can't recall any earlier ones.

Richard Meyer from Fatal Fury 1 and Bob Wilson from Fatal Fury 3.
FF3 came out two years before SFIII.



Oh dang, yeah I didn't even know what Capoeira was back then! Man SNK was on point!






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"Re(5):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 23 Nov 03:27post reply

quote:
Come to think of it, was she the first Capoeira practitioner in videogames? I just looked it up and SFIII came out a month before Tekken 3 which is the other game I remember having a Capoeira fighter. I can't recall any earlier ones.

Richard Meyer from Fatal Fury 1 and Bob Wilson from Fatal Fury 3.
FF3 came out two years before SFIII.



I could swear that Capoeira was given as Blanka's stye in SFII, as ludicrous as that is. I know it was at least discussed around the time because my roommate and I subsequently got obsessed with Capoeira briefly.





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"Re(6):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 23 Nov 03:38post reply

Still the best Capoera users in a VS game.





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"Re(6):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Wed 23 Nov 04:09post reply

quote:

I could swear that Capoeira was given as Blanka's stye in SFII, as ludicrous as that is. I know it was at least discussed around the time because my roommate and I subsequently got obsessed with Capoeira briefly.



I think that was a Capcom USA thing like Shotokan Karate for Ken and Ryu. I think they also had some material where Sambo was Zangief's style in addition to pro-wrestling.







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"Re(7):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Thu 24 Nov 05:26post reply

Rashid stage banned from pro tour

So among the all-new DLC stages, two of them are now not for use in the most public setting of SFV.

I don't know if I should be impressed by the extent to which they didn't think it all the way through, or the extent to which they really wanted to make stages that would only appeal to the casual at-home audience.







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"Re(8):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Thu 24 Nov 10:34:post reply

Edit: dammit spoon fooled me into posting in the wrong thread





[this message was edited by Gojira on Thu 24 Nov 10:41]



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"Re(7):Street Fighter lore: SF5 edition" , posted Thu 24 Nov 10:35post reply

quote:
So among the all-new DLC stages, two of them are now not for use in the most public setting of SFV.

I don't know if I should be impressed by the extent to which they didn't think it all the way through, or the extent to which they really wanted to make stages that would only appeal to the casual at-home audience.

Dearest Spoon: you are in the wrong thread. Fortunately, your exciting penance options include A) only playing as Necalli or Flava Flave Ryu for a week or B) revealing your secret CFN so we can finally duel.
quote:
I think they also had some material where Sambo was Zangief's style in addition to pro-wrestling.

And by sambo did you mean the Cossak dance~~? :3





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"Re(8):Street Fighter lore: Shotacon Karate" , posted Thu 24 Nov 12:30:post reply

quote:
So among the all-new DLC stages, two of them are now not for use in the most public setting of SFV.

I don't know if I should be impressed by the extent to which they didn't think it all the way through, or the extent to which they really wanted to make stages that would only appeal to the casual at-home audience.
Dearest Spoon: you are in the wrong thread. Fortunately, your exciting penance options include A) only playing as Necalli or Flava Flave Ryu for a week or B) revealing your secret CFN so we can finally duel.
I think they also had some material where Sambo was Zangief's style in addition to pro-wrestling.
And by sambo did you mean the Cossak dance~~? :3



In college I belonged to a fighting game club (it was the best!). One of our members was from Tokyo. The hardest I ever saw him laugh was when he overheard his classmates discussing how Ken and Ryu are practitioners of "Shotacon Karate."

Apparently people really do practice "The Pederast's Fist" in real life!






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Thu 24 Nov 12:40]

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"Re(9):Street Fighter lore: Shotacon Karate" , posted Fri 25 Nov 03:22post reply

There goes my love for linguistic misunderstandings. Nobi, your shotacon anecdote made my day xD Curious coincidence, I'm going on a KPop Italian buffalaxes binge these days, so your tale couldn't come at a better time for me :D





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"Re(10):Street Fighter lore: Shotacon Karate" , posted Fri 2 Dec 02:57post reply

Wikipedia makes sure you aren't thinking of Shotacon when looking at Shotokan.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Street Fighter lore: Shotacon Ka" , posted Fri 2 Dec 03:44post reply

...did some fellow Cafer did it? xD I had never visited that page before Nobi told us about his Japanese friend, so I don't know if the disambiguation was already there :P





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