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"SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Tue 20 Dec 11:55post reply

YOU CAN'T ESCAPE!

Yes, it's time for SFV Season 2. Will Gouki finally make Capcom some money to usher in what MUST be the era of Justice Gakuen vs. Street Fighter? Will poor Ibuki finally stand a chance in this new build? Will the online experience evolve from getting routinely destroyed by scrub Kens to getting routinely destroyed by scrub Goukis? Will I ever stop getting sick on Rashid's stupid plane? Share all the answers here.


Useful things

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3. Legend of Two-P part 1 and part 2, in celebration of his guaranteed** appearance in season 2 (**huge lie)

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SFV thread 5
SFV thread 4
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SFV thread 2
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"Re(1):SF3 Thread Part 6: Coop Cup Edition" , posted Tue 20 Dec 16:06post reply

Fight For the Future of 1999 in 2017!

Cooperation Cup is set to run on January 8th 2017 at Tokyo Leisure Land Palette Town in Koto

The biggest and best and longest-running 3S tournament series continues, with 450 players registered! Representing the dementedly high level of 3S that remains in Japan, it's one to watch.







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"Re(1):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Tue 20 Dec 21:27post reply

PATCH NOTES

To sum-up a NINTEY-TWO PAGES long PDF to its most important change:
quote:
Background Music Select

In Battle Settings, you’ll now be able to select your preferred music in Training and Versus Modes as well as Casual and Ranked matches.








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"Re(2):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Wed 21 Dec 01:11post reply

Also,

Dearest Maou,

quote:
URIEN
Vitality:
 Increased vitality 1000 to 1025
Jumping LP:
 Expanded the hitbox backwards, and added in cross-up confirm
V-Trigger - Aegis Reflector:
 Increased damage from 10×3 to 20×3
H Metallic Sphere:
 Single version damage has been increased 60 to 70
 Charged version damage has been increased 90 to 100
H Chariot Tackle (Standard/V-Skill):
 Damage has increased 90 to 100
 Increased juggle potential when used in-airborne combo


Kissu kissu,

Iggy





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"Re(3):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Wed 21 Dec 04:55post reply

Maou your Season 2 preview definitely makes me look forward to some crazy times :D
According to some fan artist, at least one fifth of your Justice Gakuen world domination scheme may come true... but there's also another theory.





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"Re(2):SFV Thread Part 6: PDF Edition" , posted Wed 21 Dec 11:46post reply

quote:
NINTEY-TWO PAGES long PDF
At first I saw this and thought, "oh, of course, a PDF, how useful," but then I suddenly realized it felt weird and was wondering why: it's because it felt like I was at work. While this may be the strangest thing ever to come out of a gaming company's PR department, I love how they are allowing people to twink out with pencil-and-paper RPG-level character stats.
quote:
Third Strike in a SFV thread
Spoon why are you trying to hurt me
quote:
イギーの挑戦状/unstoppable strengthening of Urien
Urien's evil new reign has begun. Speaking of which, I am pleased to confirm that you can indeed set music for any mode to be the stage music (correct), your character theme (why would you?), your opponent's character theme (don't be an idiot), or random (eh). You can't just mix and match any given theme to any stage, but I'm hopeful that this still frees me from having to sacrifice my firstborn to Iggy as an act of penance had I been wrong, per our...unusual contract.
quote:
at least one fifth of your Justice Gakuen world domination scheme may come true...
Young apprentice Mickey, you can be my fellow prophet as we fortell the coming of Hinata. While she's not Sakura, she still accomplishes the goal of "short skirt" and "immensely irritating to Iggy," so I see no problem.





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"Re(4):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Wed 21 Dec 11:57post reply

quote:
Maou your Season 2 preview definitely makes me look forward to some crazy times :D
According to some fan artist, at least one fifth of your Justice Gakuen world domination scheme may come true... but there's also another theory.



I know I'm not a lucky guy by any stretch of the word but, if from all the characters from Justice Gakuen franchise Capcom ends up bringing back for SFV the only one I can't stand, I'm gonna be really pissed. I'm not even asking for Hideo or Kyoko but, come on... Hinata? Sigh.






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"Re(3):SFV Thread Part 6: PDF (and web)Edition" , posted Wed 21 Dec 18:08:post reply

quote:
Young apprentice Mickey, you can be my fellow prophet as we fortell the coming of Hinata. While she's not Sakura, she still accomplishes the goal of "short skirt" and "immensely irritating to Iggy," so I see no problem.


Master, though I'd like Akira way better, I accept your offer. Let's witness the dawn of the Justice Gakuen VS. Street Fighter era together.

As for the monumental changelog, here is a website version. I surely find it more comfortable to browse LOL

Sadly, the tradition of game servers getting fucked up on big updates goes on.





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[this message was edited by Micky Kusanagi on Wed 21 Dec 18:21]



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"Re(5):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Wed 21 Dec 20:17post reply

quote:
I know I'm not a lucky guy by any stretch of the word but, if from all the characters from Justice Gakuen franchise Capcom ends up bringing back for SFV the only one I can't stand, I'm gonna be really pissed. I'm not even asking for Hideo or Kyoko but, come on... Hinata? Sigh.


Don't worry, we all know that Kyoko won't be in SF5 because she will be the main character in MvCI. Look into your heart, you know it's the real answer.

I will only accept Hinata if they also add a SFEX character and it's Garuda, so Maou can feel as miserable as I would be.







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"Re(6):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Thu 22 Dec 02:33post reply

What's great is that none of these characters will probably make it in but everyone will still be annoyed and frustrated by the actual cast. One way or another we will find our own ways to be entertained by fighting games.





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"Re(4):SFV Thread Part 6: PDF (and web)Edition" , posted Thu 22 Dec 03:02post reply

quote:

Sadly, the tradition of game servers getting fucked up on big updates goes on.



Yep, got a bunch of "cannot retrieve data" stuff yesterday. And i see a bunch of people are getting the rage quit icon too.

Maybe by season 3 Capcom will have this stuff ironed out and we won't have to have the servers be down the entire day to include new characters.

In other new, there are some new silhouettes on PSN

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0LeRkTVEAALQVj.jpg

One is obviously Helena/Kolin, but the others are not so easily comparable to other SFV story mode characters.

The two on the right are obviously muscular fighters, but aren't quite Azam. Perhaps they will have Azam, but with a different look.

I tried out Akuma a bit by doing his trials, story mode(I don't think his "story" costume is in story mode btw) and easy and normal survival. I have to say I am having some problems doing the whole sequence of canceling an attack into his V-Skill, doing the Kick extension of the V-Skill and then canceling that into demon flip. It seems like that is a great way to deal damage though.

I still cannot get over the design. Clipping of models in general isn't too much of a problem for me. I see it as a thing that just happens in 3D games, but when clipping is part of the characters default stance it kind of gets on my nerves or when it is right in front of you in character select screen. I wish designs kind of worked around it at least. Change character select poses so we don't get stuff like Ken's hair going through his shoulder.

Then we get Akuma's beads are now a strap across his body for no good reason other than to be different.

I wish we got that hooded design that was on CFN a while ago. It was different, but also identifiable as Akuma.





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"Re(5):SFV Thread Part 6: PDF (and web)Edition" , posted Thu 22 Dec 04:34post reply

I barely fought 2 matches in order to get that tiny amount of FM from today's mission and thank God I didn't get any "failed to retrieve data" error. I read about undeserved ragequitter statuses and I almost dove my face onto the keyboard ^^;

Nice to see new subtle hints at the new characters. I'd never think Helen would actually be a fighter, we know something about her powers through the general story but seeing them implemented in-game is gonna be another story.





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"SFV Season 2 Pass" , posted Fri 23 Dec 11:17post reply

Does anyone know if the Season 2 Character Pass gives buyers a "free" premium outfit for Akuma/Gouki?

The Steam (PC version) store page description for the pass specifically says "Each 2017 character comes with a Premium Battle costume". I don't know if it means only the five characters released in 2017, or if it means all six characters of the "2017" Season Pass. (The page only once refers to the pass as a "2017 Character Pass", but it does once do so.)





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"Re(1):SFV Season 2 Pass" , posted Fri 23 Dec 17:56post reply

The first pass came with a premium costume for each character, and Gouki is intented to be a 2017 season character, so I'm 99% sure he gets his own premium costume too in the pass.

May any player more advanced than me please tell me what they think about Ken's changes? From my perspective of a very low level player, he got lots of nerfs, but his HK Tatsu and his V-trigger specials were improved, and so is his CA hitbox. Any correction to my observations is welcome.





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"Re(1):SFV Season 2 Pass" , posted Fri 23 Dec 19:42post reply

quote:
Does anyone know if the Season 2 Character Pass gives buyers a "free" premium outfit for Akuma/Gouki?
Yes, he has the topless+grey hair+cloth floating above the shoulders that makes him even more like a Buddhist statue.

His scenario costume (the one you can buy with FM) is an ugly thing with radiating energy pulsing out of his body that's as painful to look at as the volcano stage in SF4, and finally you can buy with real money his SF2 look.

Urien's crouching MP (the elbow) doesn't combo into itself anymore... :(







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"Re(2):SFV Season 2 Pass" , posted Sun 25 Dec 12:48:post reply

I have yet to put much time into SFV since the patch, but from the notes I gathered that my character Laura was treated quite well. 5MK foreverrrrrrrr

Regarding the season 2 characters, an interesting thing that's been going around is a certain cover for an upcoming Udon SF comic that has - of all people - Maple Storm on it. Of course it also has Azam and Sagat on there but considering right now she's never been seen anywhere in any SF past or present except her CFN portal profile, it's a very odd choice. Udon does coordinate with Capcom to some degree (Kolin w/ Urien appeared in the Charlie Nash comic long before it was confirmed that she was part of the general story mode) so it's not completely out of left field that they might know something about the upcoming characters.





[this message was edited by Gojira on Sun 25 Dec 12:50]



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"Re(1):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Mon 26 Dec 22:12:post reply

I found recently a couple of American players agonizing over Go... I mean, Akuma, and I was surprised to hear them making fun of some of his new animations looking "sooo stupid".
I didn't notice anything during my short time with him, and if there's one thing Capcom artists are amazing at, it's creating great looking personalized animation, so I went back to the game and tried him to understand what these people were talking about.
Then, I saw the issue: it was a cultural one. Since SSF2X, Gouki has slowly transitioned from half-demon looking bad dude to living buddhist statue, and by SF5, the transition is almost complete, to the point a certain amount of his key frames for several normal attacks, not merely his normal stance or super animation, replicate those famous agyô/ungyô poses. So with the correct cultural background, these animations look good, are a natural evolution of the character and express something about him just by their mere presence, which is something the best animations usually do (shameless Vampire plug). However, they looks silly for someone without the cultural keys to understand them.
It's true that SF5's Gouki has gone extremely close to his statue counterpart: the way his wrists bend palm outward in almost all his animations is unnatural for anyone including martial artists, but replicate kongôrikishi's poses to perfection. They even have his animation stilted to the point that he sometimes starts his animation, reaches the exact statue pose, stays there for a couple of frames, and then attack, which emphasizes the point. Unfortunately, an external cultural eye will only see that the animation stuttered, which is quite jarring in a game where everyone has amazingly fluid animation, and even more for the poster boy of season 2 and one of the most popular characters of the franchise.

It made me think about the graphical state of the game in general, and its main issue of animation vs clipping.
I'm starting to think that the animators of the game have probably a tremendous amount of craft in 2D art (after all, you don't work on Street Fighter animation without a long pedigree in this sphere) but lack knowledge, or interest, in the 3D field and how the polygons will express these animation. This could explain one of the biggest mysteries of this game, that the worst amount of clipping is not due to additional costumes, designed without regards for the original animations, or by small case-by-case interaction of special moves, but by the default costume themselves (Birdie's chain, FANG as a whole, and Gouki's mane even though he has been designed several months after the others), and on the select screen, a huge showcase in a 100% controlled situation, reproducible 100% of the time.
There might also be of course outsourcing problems: the issues that Ken has two still bananas hanging from his head, or that Laura's hair seem to have 3 points of articulation at most, are possibly difficult to fix when you're so remote from the people in charge of making the 3D models. But it also makes me think that maybe, some of the animators are old curmudgeons that still want to live in a time when 2D was king and the CPS3 was a worldwide success, and thus disregard on purpose the limitations and needs of 3D models, like they want to say "see? This would never have happened in pixel art!".

Obviously, I do not know if that's the case or who is actually working on the animations, it may just be that the outsourcing have these people working so remotely that they cannot communicate with each other, on top of a tight budget that makes them say "eh, good enough as it is". But the fact the issue keeps happening, and that they even went out of their way to give Gouki's default costume a giant clipping mane (while his default costume looks fine) gives me pause.





[this message was edited by Iggy on Mon 26 Dec 22:17]



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"Re(3):SFV Season 2 Pass" , posted Mon 26 Dec 22:59post reply

quote:

Regarding the season 2 characters, an interesting thing that's been going around is a certain cover for an upcoming Udon SF comic that has - of all people - Maple Storm on it. Of course it also has Azam and Sagat on there but considering right now she's never been seen anywhere in any SF past or present except her CFN portal profile, it's a very odd choice. Udon does coordinate with Capcom to some degree (Kolin w/ Urien appeared in the Charlie Nash comic long before it was confirmed that she was part of the general story mode) so it's not completely out of left field that they might know something about the upcoming characters.



Even more interesting, Udon's free comic book day issue for SF appears to be based on the female wrestling league detailed in the SF portal - there's a lot I've grown to dislike about the Udon SF comics over the years (so much repeated cliche dialog during fights...), but at times they excel at doing what Capcom themselves won't.





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"Re(2):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Tue 27 Dec 04:01post reply

quote:
Iggy's amazing Gouki inspiration analysis

Posts like yours are the reason I'm so fond of the Cafe. I still haven't enough FM to buy Gouki, but as soon as I do, I'll carefully check his animations and I'll enjoy them. Thank you for the insight!!





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"Re(3):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Tue 27 Dec 23:39post reply

quote:
Iggy's amazing Gouki inspiration analysis
Posts like yours are the reason I'm so fond of the Cafe. I still haven't enough FM to buy Gouki, but as soon as I do, I'll carefully check his animations and I'll enjoy them. Thank you for the insight!!


Great write up and great timing. Just yesterday I finally tried out that mighty warrior and Iggy's analysis of his moves helped me appreciate the character even more. Akuma certainly has become more stylized over the years so I'm glad to see Capcom finally went all-in with having one of the headliners striking classical poses instead of moving the antiquity inspirations off onto a side character like Gouken.

But with as great as his stances are I'm still not certain about his hair. It's trying to do several things at once but in the end Akuma looks like a teenage girl who tied up her bangs so she could wash her face. Exfoliating is important but wait until after the fight! At least Akuma's handprints are visible in his fireballs. It's been too long since I saw that visual.





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"Re(4):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Wed 28 Dec 00:10:post reply

quote:
At least Akuma's handprints are visible in his fireballs. It's been too long since I saw that visual.


...really?? I've been missing handprint-endowed projectiles so much. Between Capcom's amazing artistic feat that Gouki's SFV animation is and Kyo's flame-engulfing MAX Orochinagi in KOF14 1.10, we're getting some heartwarming throwbacks in the latest fighters.
But the highlight of your post is the picture you linked. Associating it with Gouki's SFV default look is just too hilarious for words





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[this message was edited by Micky Kusanagi on Wed 28 Dec 02:07]

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"Re(2):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Wed 28 Dec 03:07post reply

That's quite a nice writeup, Iggy!

I'd like to add that even if it isn't a case of 2D pixel artists not following through with the 3D era, it can still be a case where handdrawing artists ended up making designs that look good on paper but not in 3D.







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"Re(1):SFV Thread Part 6: Mecha Gouki Edition" , posted Thu 29 Dec 04:27:post reply

quote:
evolve from getting routinely destroyed by scrub Kens to getting routinely destroyed by scrub Goukis
Ah, that didn't take long. I was all set to complain about how perplexing it is that Kobayashi's trailer music for the Gouki stage is replaced by a lame tune with this awful WUB-WUB-WUB dub-step thing in round 2 which only an X-treme Gouki fan could find cool, but...the stage is really great, the rain reminds me of a good Soul Calibur level, and somehow I didn't notice the weak music as much then.

Prof and Ishmael made me laugh with the exfoliating dog donut motif, but Iggy may have redeemed at least his animations, which I think are a true high point for all characters, even for people who don't like the character art.

EDIT: More importantly, we now have Mecha Gouki, laying to rest any questions about who comes out ahead in the PC vs. PS4 choice.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Thu 29 Dec 11:37]



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"Re(5):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Fri 30 Dec 01:53post reply

quote:
At least Akuma's handprints are visible in his fireballs. It's been too long since I saw that visual.

...really?? I've been missing handprint-endowed projectiles so much. Between Capcom's amazing artistic feat that Gouki's SFV animation is and Kyo's flame-engulfing MAX Orochinagi in KOF14 1.10, we're getting some heartwarming throwbacks in the latest fighters.



Correction on my part: The hands of Ryu and Ken are in their SF5 fireballs, I just never noticed them before.

In the past few days I've spent some time playing against the CPU and once again I've been reminded that it really is a fun game full of nice little touches. As the old lament goes, if Capcom had just included a game with SF5 it would have been really good.





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"Re(6):SFV Thread Part 6: Season 2 Edition" , posted Fri 10 Feb 03:21post reply

For anyone who hasn't read the general Fighting Game Thread here, Iggy revealed to us the second new challenger from SFV Season 2.

Not really a surprise (she was rumored to join the playable roster long ago), but her ice powers look cool.

It seems that SF's valets are eventually becoming fighters on their own (Poison, I'm looking at you). Who will be the next?





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"Re:SFV Thread Part 6: Chilly Season 2 Edition" , posted Fri 10 Feb 03:33post reply

Now we're talking! The most important fighting series in history cannot be forced to mingle among commoners in the generic fighting game thread. What would Karin say?
quote:
It seems that SF's valets are eventually becoming fighters on their own
Ishizaki, one day your time will come!





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"Re(1):Re:SFV Thread Part 6: Chilly Season 2 E" , posted Fri 10 Feb 04:58post reply

I like how they buried the note about the patch to the patch at the end. Oh well, since I'm sure it's going to be something simple like buffing Urien's fierce punch there's probably little to talk about.

Besides, Kolin has plenty to talk about. It looks like she has a double jump, which is an interesting addition. She also apparently head-swapped with herself. While it's nice that Capcom refined her features from the story mode it's odd that they included some shots of her proto-head in her reveal trailer. At first I didn't like Kolin's look but then I realized I was looking at her season 1 face. It seems that ice powers are good for smoothing out chipmunk cheeks.







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"Re(2):Re:SFV Thread Part 6: Chilly Season 2 E" , posted Fri 10 Feb 07:29:post reply

Ah, so that was the thread Maou was talking about! I was confused... "I did post in the fighting game thread that is not KOFXIV's, didn't I?"
Silly me.
And sad me suddenly understanding how little I ended up caring about that game after all the good I said about it.

I do like Ishmael's observation that, in a series that had 5 prominent characters built upon the same body with a different head, Kolin is the first character to do the opposite and require a second set of heads just for herself.
Hopefully Ken and Alex are next.

Funny how I never liked playing as Rimururu, but between the black ice meerkat in Pokkén and Kolin's double jump I'm excited when I see any of her moves on literally anything else.

EDIT:
PLUS, important reminder about Kolin that got ignored because of the dreadful American trailer: her Japanese VA is none other than Park Romi. Since this is a Capcom thread, she voices the fabulous version of Uesugi Kenshin and the good Giorno.
Be gone, fake russian accent, this is not a Roger Moore James Bond.





[this message was edited by Iggy on Fri 10 Feb 07:38]

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"Re(3):Re:SFV Thread Part 6: Chilly Season 2 E" , posted Sat 11 Feb 03:31:post reply

quote:

Funny how I never liked playing as Rimururu, but between the black ice meerkat in Pokkén and Kolin's double jump I'm excited when I see any of her moves on literally anything else.

EDIT:
PLUS, important reminder about Kolin that got ignored because of the dreadful American trailer: her Japanese VA is none other than Park Romi. Since this is a Capcom thread, she voices the fabulous version of Uesugi Kenshin and the good Giorno.
Be gone, fake russian accent, this is not a Roger Moore James Bond.



Romi Park is indeed the baddest.

I have always kind of liked icy characters in general, and Kolin looks... kind of cool (insert sound of me dying a little bit inside because that pun was honestly not intentional when I typed it out). But I am looking for a bit more punch to Kolin's ice moves. The little chunks that drop off in the air just really don't look like something you would worry about. It looks way too similar to FANG's poison blobs... maybe they wanted to save themselves some work. Her super also kind of looks like crap doesn't impress me too much. Sometimes I get so depressed that Capcom can't be bothered to take care of one of their biggest franchises in-house. I know they have the skills.

I really wish she would move herself forward with those rapid strikes... like, where is your technique? She should take pointers from Long in Bloody Roar.

Man, I am cranky these days!





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"Re(4):Re:SFV Thread Part 6: Chilly Season 2 E" , posted Fri 17 Feb 05:59post reply

Mosquiton, I don't know whether the people responsible for DD's gorgeous visual effects are the same as SFV, but I doubt it since lots of stuff in SFV was outsourced (don't know if it's the same in DD). Still, the inconsistency is sad...

So, it's one year of SFV based on its Western release date. While it marks a jarring new abys in Capcom's business model shittiness, it's a game I'm liking a lot, both aesthetically and substantially.





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"Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Fri 17 Feb 13:55post reply

Every so often, Shoryuken.com still produces columns of interest rather than youtube links, and this one on SFV is of interest. I think we all agree with the bungled single player issues, and season 2 "rebalances" are terrible, but it's still enormous fun for all the flaws, and its biggest selling point is still that even its uneven visual design is fathoms beyond the aesthetic horrors of SFIV.

The column's rumination on players' (limited) good will and how it relates to season 2 characters returns me to what's Capcom's second-most baffling choice after the awful launch decisions: dedicating a whole season to characters nobody knows. It just...cannot possibly make any money. Certainly not for the season pass since people won't buy who they don't know (except for Iggy, who did it as charity for poor Capcom because he is a Paragon of Virtue). But I doubt for individual characters, either. I mean, I guess Kolin is fine, but why on earth would anyone buy a character whose mechanics they'd never previewed before? Are they that confident that the designs alone would grab people? And even if they were, how could it possibly be a better idea to save crowd favorites for later on the grounds that it would keep interest going?

I cannot think of a configuration where it wouldn't be better to rev people up with Gouki-Sakura-Sagat(-SKULLOMANIA) and then still keep some people engaged with season 3 as a result, rather than likely hemmoraging people who may or may not still be around for season 3 even if old favorites reappear. What am I missing? I'm not a business major but I'm fairly certain every decision I could make would be better than what actually happened with SFV.

I still really really really like this game.





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"Re(1):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Fri 17 Feb 17:40post reply

quote:
Every so often, Shoryuken.com still produces columns of interest rather than youtube links, and this one on SFV is of interest. I think we all agree with the bungled single player issues, and season 2 "rebalances" are terrible, but it's still enormous fun for all the flaws, and its biggest selling point is still that even its uneven visual design is fathoms beyond the aesthetic horrors of SFIV.

The column's rumination on players' (limited) good will and how it relates to season 2 characters returns me to what's Capcom's second-most baffling choice after the awful launch decisions: dedicating a whole season to characters nobody knows. It just...cannot possibly make any money. Certainly not for the season pass since people won't buy who they don't know (except for Iggy, who did it as charity for poor Capcom because he is a Paragon of Virtue). But I doubt for individual characters, either. I mean, I guess Kolin is fine, but why on earth would anyone buy a character whose mechanics they'd never previewed before? Are they that confident that the designs alone would grab people? And even if they were, how could it possibly be a better idea to save crowd favorites for later on the grounds that it would keep interest going?

I cannot think of a configuration where it wouldn't be better to rev people up with Gouki-Sakura-Sagat(-SKULLOMANIA) and then still keep some p

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


I seriously think an approach of alternating oldface/newface characters would be good. You'd get ongoing hype from both people who want to see familiar characters, and from people who want new characters! You could even arrange them in ways to deliberately contrast their styles/character designs! The juxtaposition alone could be a nice palate cleanser!







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"Re(2):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Fri 17 Feb 20:27post reply

The only sense I can make out of this decision is that they will soft reboot the game next year, either with another packaged game called "Super-" with fan-favourites Sagat-Sakura-Hakan-ArcadeMode, or with the F2P version the game should always have been (along with fan-favourites Sagat-Sakura-T.Hawk).

I suppose some of the characters from season 2 were already being worked on during season 1 (at least Kolin and Azam), but being nobodies, they wouldn't attract much interest by themselves in a F2P version (or with hypothetical people who would come back for a Super- version).
So, they're now being taken out of the way, given a chance to carve their little niche in the flailing version through tournaments, before a breath of hopefulness next year.

...
... Somehow I was much more optimistic in December just before Gouki.







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"Re(3):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Sat 18 Feb 02:26post reply

I wonder what Capcom's long-term production chart for SF5 looks like and how ridiculously far behind they are. The decision to include a bunch of unknowns in season 2 was probably made a long time ago. At the time it's likely a whole raft of other items -such as nostalgia costumes, new stages, or whatever- would have also been announced. But because SF5 launched in such an undeveloped state the game has been trying to catch up ever since. With the threadbare resources available my guess is that the decision was made to focus on at least getting the new characters out the door and try to work on everything else at some other point during the next twelve months. The decisions about SF5 aren't rational, they are frantic attempts to bail out water to keep the whole thing from rolling over and sinking to the bottom of the lake.

A rebranding or some other drastic change may be the only thing that can pull SF5 out of its spiral but does Capcom want to throw good money after bad?







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"Re(4):Season 2 the more things change edition" , posted Sat 18 Feb 05:34post reply

I really find it quite funny that companies have been giving this generation their own little taste of late 90's sequels that dumped the main cast for new characters. A chance for us to relive the days of Tekken 3, SF3, Garou 3, etc. and a chance for all the historical revisionist people that didn't get to experience the absolute shitshow that went down in its entirety. A time before the internet was completely inundated with complaining, yet cries of "who the hell are these characters and where is Sagat" were certainly echoing from deep within the newsgroups.

My experience with this every time it happens has always been that some characters will stick and some will not, but none of them will ever be fully appreciated right from the start. And definitely none of them will be appreciated before they're even revealed, let alone be something people will want to spend money on. So for the short term, Capcom is obviously not making a smart decision. This will get them no immediate traction on season 2.

Years from now, though? Who knows. Wait for it all to die down so that people can take an objective look at the game again instead of throwing up their hands and lamenting that we're stuck with it and chasing the ghosts of classic characters. It's just going to be a while before that's possible, so if that's the plan I'm not sure how Capcom is going to last in the meantime.





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"Re(5):Season 2 the more things change edition" , posted Sat 18 Feb 07:49post reply

quote:
Mosquiton, I don't know whether the people responsible for DD's gorgeous visual effects are the same as SFV, but I doubt it since lots of stuff in SFV was outsourced (don't know if it's the same in DD). Still, the inconsistency is sad...



That's what I'm complaining about when I say I get so depressed that Capcom can't be bothered to take care of one of their biggest franchises in-house.

I really wish they cared more. But hey, at least they're saving money!





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"Re(3):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Sat 18 Feb 12:51:post reply

quote:
fan-favourites Sagat-Sakura-Hakan
fan-favourites Sagat-Sakura-T.Hawk
I just needed to reemphasize something hilarious and important and excellent.
quote:
"who the hell are these characters and where is Sagat"
It's true! In addition to freeing us from SFIV, SFV season 2 also wins the award of merit for helping recreate the nostalgic joy of hating SFIII's characters, here in the present day! Too bad it's not more technically competent and this game's mostly dreary new characters aren't at least drawn by Kinu and Akiman like III's, but it's still more fun than the parry-blocking system.

It's funny how based on the quality of the cultural/martial arts basis for a new SF character that we've talked about before, you can generally tell who will last. Like, no focus group was required to figure out that El Fuerte and Abel and Remy wouldn't last where Laura might (though this does not explain the mystery of Juri's reappearance).
quote:
Years from now, though? Who knows. Wait for it all to die down so that people can take an objective look at the game again instead of throwing up their hands and lamenting that we're stuck with it and chasing the ghosts of classic characters.
Gojira's point here really points to the bind Capcom's in. I love playing SFV, but frankly what it has going for it is that it's the most modern entry in a long-running series, but once that newness wears off, there are better Street Fighters (SFII, SSFIIX, Zero 2, Zero 3, and fine, I guess SFIII (I'll eat my vegetables)). Short-term, people will be annoyed without their favorite characters, and long-term, even if SFV gets more cohesive and people come around to the new chararcters, it's too late because among retro Street Fighters, SFV will be destined to lose.





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"Re(4):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Sat 18 Feb 18:56post reply

quote:
(though this does not explain the mystery of Juri's reappearance).
I was going to use Juri to answer Gojira's point as well (and that was what I meant when I said throwing away these new characters in season 2 allowed them to carve their own niche).
Honestly, I don't know why C.Viper failed where Juri succeeded and will probably from now on be the recurrent SF4 character (she already appeared in the last two PxZ game, which are made by people with a better understanding of what people actually want to see). I guess when making SF4 Ono's team gambled between Viper and Abel to be the face of their game, and while it failed hilariously and predictably (and Rufus became the face of everything that was wrong with SF4), I don't understand why Juri, an equally "BLAH" character, succeeded. It wasn't her game play, since she's basically a new character in SF5. Maybe it was because she was a very trope-y villain, something Street Fighter desperately lacks? The fact she ends up being paired with Vega in PxZ (even though I'm still not sure whether they work together or want to kill each other) (SF4's scenario was a mess) seems to point in that direction. Or maybe Vega and Juri are SF's Kyo and Iori, the predictable rivals that keep saying they will kill each other when all they need is some smokey make-up sex.
Juri was never going to be a character perfectly tuned with the needs of the players in that particular moment (like Sakura was and that made her a star), but she ended up being the character Street Fighter needed at that point of its history.

quote:
I love playing SFV, but frankly what it has going for it is that it's the most modern entry in a long-running series, but once that newness wears off, there are better Street Fighters (SFII, SSFIIX, Zero 2, Zero 3, and fine, I guess SFIII (I'll eat my vegetables)).
Fortunately (or not?) I'm not on that boat.
Admittedly, I've never been a huge fan of Street Fighter's gameplay as a whole after SF2 (hello Vampire, Samurai Spirits and KOF) so SFV remains a more enjoyable game to play than both Zero2 and Third Strike.
The other issue the 2D games have is that modern displays make them look terrible. I played recently CvS2 on a modern system and it made my eyeballs vomit. So you're faced with the alternative of looking for a CRT or playing the unlovable sasquatch of an abomination that is HDRemix.
They look fine on Vita though, so hopefully the Switch will receive quality port of good fighting games.







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"Re(5):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Tue 21 Feb 20:34post reply

So.... someone made a patch that drastically improved loadings.

How did he do that?
https://twitter.com/TOOLASSlSTED/status/833300043142676480

.... by unlocking the framerate of the select screen.

...
... So, yeah, of course I understand there are matchmaking issues, and it also depends on both people having a good enough PC to load everything so fast, but... SERIOUSLY, CAPCOM?!





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"Re(6):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Wed 22 Feb 00:07post reply

quote:
It's funny how based on the quality of the cultural/martial arts basis for a new SF character that we've talked about before, you can generally tell who will last. Like, no focus group was required to figure out that El Fuerte and Abel and Remy wouldn't last where Laura might (though this does not explain the mystery of Juri's reappearance).



I can think of a few reasons why Juri would last:

- She's the only South-Korean character in SF so far (thus adding representativity to the South-Korean players - this may sound silly, but I remember many people in Brazil being proud of having the country represented back in the SFII days, even if the one representing it was Blanka);

- She's the first true female villain in SF (the Dolls are mind-controlled and thus not responsible for their actions, while C.Viper only pretended to be a villain to investigate Seth);

- Also the horniest character in SF history, increasing her fanservice level.

I do wish Hakan could get a little more love from Capcom and the competitive players, though.





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"Re(7):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Wed 22 Feb 03:48post reply

quote:
I can think of a few reasons why Juri would last:


I agree, Juri is going to move forward because she fills the "bad girl" slot that had been empty in SF since the beginning. Although I have no idea how to play her I'm glad she's the SF4 character who made it to the big leagues. But what's odd about this is that Capcom also has no idea how she's supposed to play (her gimmick is that she... charges moves in her feet?) but they still brought her back right away in SF5. This decision was obviously made due to her general popularity and not for gameplay reasons. This choice once again makes SF5's lack of support for anyone but those who grind online that much more frustrating but my complaints about SF5 feel very circular at this point so I should probably stop.

Also, thanks to Iggy for reminding me about the early days of SF4 where Capcom tried to make Abel and C.Viper a thing. I doubt anybody thought Abel was going anywhere but you could tell Capcom had faith in C.Viper's popularity and she ended up being DOA before the game even made it to consoles. Good times!





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"Re(8):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Wed 22 Feb 06:56post reply

quote:

Also, thanks to Iggy for reminding me about the early days of SF4 where Capcom tried to make Abel and C.Viper a thing. I doubt anybody thought Abel was going anywhere but you could tell Capcom had faith in C.Viper's popularity and she ended up being DOA before the game even made it to consoles. Good times!



I wouldn't say she was DOA before the game made it to consoles since C. Viper did actually made it into MvC3 years later (and is actually pretty strong in that game, too... plus they got rid of her weird Uni-boob).

I'd still like to see her return to V anyway. Maybe they can, against all possible odds, come up with an inspired costume or something.





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"Re(8):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Wed 22 Feb 18:58post reply

quote:
Also, thanks to Iggy for reminding me about the early days of SF4 where Capcom tried to make Abel and C.Viper a thing. I doubt anybody thought Abel was going anywhere but you could tell Capcom had faith in C.Viper's popularity and she ended up being DOA before the game even made it to consoles. Good times!



Abel has IMO a more timeless design compared to Viper's weird mix of everyday clothing, gadgets and outrageous hair - it's kinda sad plot-wide he was attached to a lame villain, although at least that made for an interesting alternate skin in SFxT IIRC.

As for Juri, her design never clicked all that much with me, but gameplay-wise projectiles and dive-kicking moves can go a lot way into making a character feel accessible, regardless of how effective her gameplan might actually be. The whole "wants to kill Bison/Vega but is working for him to bide her time yet lets him install a weird gadget in her eye, which is disturbingly close to the brain, and coming from a guy with mind-control powers" is kind of a mess to try and work with in terms of any narrative that would try and make sense - I guess it's a good thing that, even if I'm yet to see SF5's story mode, they decided to embrace silliness with stuff like "muscle spirit beats sword"...





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"Re(9):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Thu 23 Feb 01:02post reply

quote:
I wouldn't say she was DOA before the game made it to consoles since C. Viper did actually made it into MvC3 years later (and is actually pretty strong in that game, too... plus they got rid of her weird Uni-boob).


That's probably unfair of me to dismiss C. Viper that directly but I doubt she made quite the splash Capcom was hoping for. One thing that the SF team has always recognized is that -whether it's fair or not- the female characters are going to get more attention. Even when SF5 was struggling to be in any way presentable for it's debut they were insane enough to commission a life-sized statue of Laura. The return of SF with SF4 was a big thing and C. Viper was supposed to be at the forefront so it must have been frustrating when the big discussion about her ended up being questions about her hair.

quote:
Abel has IMO a more timeless design compared to Viper's weird mix of everyday clothing, gadgets and outrageous hair - it's kinda sad plot-wide he was attached to a lame villain, although at least that made for an interesting alternate skin in SFxT IIRC.

It's funny, but I started liking Abel a lot more when his story went from "man who is a copy of another man who is sort of a clone of a third guy" to "man who wants a pet dog." That's the sort of low-key motivation I can appreciate. Not every fighting game storyline has to be about saving the world; sometimes it's fine to fight a would-be world dictator just to get rent money for the dojo.







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"Re(10):Season 2 who are these people? edition" , posted Thu 23 Feb 03:32post reply

quote:
One thing that the SF team has always recognized is that -whether it's fair or not- the female characters are going to get more attention.

Sakura spoiled the well for everyone. Or Alex's failure to support SF3, I'm not sure.

If SF4 had been any other episode, maybe Viper, Abel or Rufus could have made a more lasting impression, but this one was the great return of the Street Fighter franchise for the first time in 10 years, starring all the characters you loved in SF2 and more, please have a walk down nostalgia lane with us.
Maybe Juri succeeded because when she arrived she didn't have the impossible task to compete with Ryu, Chunli and Guile.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Season 2 who are these people? e" , posted Thu 23 Feb 05:36post reply

quote:
If SF4 had been any other episode, maybe Viper, Abel or Rufus could have made a more lasting impression, but this one was the great return of the Street Fighter franchise for the first time in 10 years, starring all the characters you loved in SF2 and more, please have a walk down nostalgia lane with us.
Maybe Juri succeeded because when she arrived she didn't have the impossible task to compete with Ryu, Chunli and Guile.



Or maybe because she kinda looks like an "Evil Chun-Li".





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"Re(3):Re(10):Season 2 who are these people? e" , posted Sun 26 Feb 02:48post reply

I cannot tell why Juri is popular, but based on dōjinshi and her popularity in the modding community, she definitely is the breakout character of SF4. She is pretty much the Diana/Baroness of the series so, as mentioned above, I guess "hot crazy evil bitch" filled an important gap in the archetypes presented by Street Fighter (which has never been exactly the most subtle and innovative setting of characters). Also her haircut and color patterns are very recognizable, which is always a good thing.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Season 2 who are these people? e" , posted Mon 27 Feb 18:09post reply

In tune with "who are these people?", Captain Sawada from SF the Movie now has a profile on CFN Portal:
真似はしてはいけない。





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"Re(5):Re(10):Season 2 who are these people? e" , posted Wed 1 Mar 05:54post reply

How ironic that a character with high resistance to cold was included in the Shadaloo archives right when Kolin is about to be added to SFV :D





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"Kolin vs. Season 2.5" , posted Fri 17 Mar 14:43post reply

An overdue report: after dueling with Iggy's Kolin, I'm convinced that A) she seems fun enough, B) Capcom is still completely insane to think people will pay to download a character they've never played before, least of all one who was a three-frame background sprite in a game that has never sold more than 50,000 copies on any system in Japan, and C) Capcom USA still exercises diabolical, clandestine aesthetic influence on the game's visuals in some very weird places. Yes, I'm talking about Kolin's underwear. The signs that the Americans were calling the visual shots were already out there with Rashid's Skies of Horror motion sickness stage that only the FPS-honed could possibly stomach. But here we now have a game where every character's underwear is black instead of white, an unimaginable aesthetic choice if Capcom Japan were in the lead. Is "bad American boxart" Rockman next?

Meanwhile! The April update for season 2, also mentioned in the general fighting games thread, is one of the stranger posts I've seen. It's basically a non-stop litany of "unfortunately..." with regards to all of the terrible changes in season 2 and subsequent fixes. I look forward to the May update being easily summarized as "went back to season 1" and saving everyone a lot of time.





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"Re(1):Kolin vs. Season 2.5" , posted Fri 17 Mar 16:09:post reply

quote:
It's basically a non-stop litany of "unfortunately..."


Yeah, those patch notes definitely were a chore to read. Glad Capcom is undoing some Season 2 bullshit and I hope the revert gets full in May/June just like you do Maou.

EDIT: help!! Matchmaking is getting shittier and shittier. I'm getting huge LP gaps, both in my favor and against me, in ranked and in casual. So much for the countless server maintenance sessions supposedly aimed at improving it. That's definitely how you DON'T want the online modes to go in an age when they are the heart and soul of any fighting game, no matter how robust its offline offering is.





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"Re(1):Kolin vs. Season 2.5" , posted Sun 19 Mar 02:06post reply

quote:
Capcom USA still exercises diabolical, clandestine aesthetic influence on the game's visuals in some very weird places. Yes, I'm talking about Kolin's underwear. The signs that the Americans were calling the visual shots were already out there with Rashid's Skies of Horror motion sickness stage that only the FPS-honed could possibly stomach. But here we now have a game where every character's underwear is black instead of white, an unimaginable aesthetic choice if Capcom Japan were in the lead. Is "bad American boxart" Rockman next?

I shrugged off your idea first, but I started Nier Automata yesterday, and 2B's underwear is fiercely white under all that black gothic lolita cosplay.
But then, does it mean Americans prefer black underwear? They find it more comfortable? Sexier? Puritanical American prefer them black because they cover an area that is forever mired in sin? I'm afraid your observation leads to even more mysteries.

As for the season 2's season 2, it's difficult not to read the patch notes as "ComboFiend having to undo someone else's mess" (a someone that's dismissive, arrogant and probably in Japan).
Or maybe I'm projecting.







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"Re(1):Kolin vs. Season 2.5" , posted Mon 20 Mar 10:09post reply

quote:
Meanwhile! The April update for season 2, also mentioned in the general fighting games thread, is one of the stranger posts I've seen. It's basically a non-stop litany of "unfortunately..." with regards to all of the terrible changes in season 2 and subsequent fixes. I look forward to the May update being easily summarized as "went back to season 1" and saving everyone a lot of time.



As a casual player who pretty much stopped playing last year, other than to log in weekly for the 5000 FP challenge, I'm disappointed that Capcom restored invincibility for shoryukens.

Yes, it was an obvious candidate for change. There were too many players expressing outrage, and even saying that they'd quit playing, for it to stand. But the anti-shoryuken crowd did have a point. It wasn't particularly fair for a select group that includes some otherwise already capable characters to also have meterless reversals. And the cries of outrage were pretty rich, with people calling it a "crippling" change to suddenly be required to face the same challenges that the majority of the roster always had to face.







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"Re(2):Kolin vs. Season 2.5" , posted Mon 20 Mar 23:18post reply

quote:
But the anti-shoryuken crowd did have a point. It wasn't particularly fair for a select group that includes some otherwise already capable characters to also have meterless reversals. And the cries of outrage were pretty rich, with people calling it a "crippling" change to suddenly be required to face the same challenges that the majority of the roster always had to face.

I'm really a low-level player so my opinion is probably moot, but my characters don't have meterless reversals and they do very well without them, because they have other tools to compensate. My understanding of the issue is that several of the characters whose shoryuken got crippled don't have these other tools, so they had their main option damaged without having anything to compensate. Also the nerf was so bad that not only did it render the move useless as a reversal, it also made it a bad and unreliable antiair, which is a rather big issue for most characters since it makes one of their main super moves pointless.

For Ryu, it seems to have been bad enough to send him to the bottom of the tier list. Cammy, on the other hand, was perfectly fine without that meterless reversal.
For some reason, Capcom's list of characters who will regain partial and selective invincibility (which is anyway much better than a free-for-all invincible button) doesn't include Necalli. It may be an oversight, or maybe Necalli will remain without invincibility (in which case, I hope Cammy will be on the same boat).







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"Re(3):Kolin vs. Season 2.5" , posted Tue 21 Mar 02:29post reply

I can't find my butt with both hands when it comes to fighting games but I do believe Iggy is right. Some characters are designed to be so strong in certain areas that a meterless reversal would be overkill. Besides, they aren't bringing back fully invincible meterless uppercuts anyway. Each strength will have its uses but all three will have things that they lose out to. It's an interesting idea to make all three versions of that move practical. I have no idea whether it will work or not but since right now Cammy's dive kick can beat a shoryuken clean something probably needs to be done.
quote:

For some reason, Capcom's list of characters who will regain partial and selective invincibility (which is anyway much better than a free-for-all invincible button) doesn't include Necalli. It may be an oversight, or maybe Necalli will remain without invincibility (in which case, I hope Cammy will be on the same boat).

Perhaps they felt that between Necalli's command throw and other tools that he doesn't need more options? Or is Necalli such a personality vacuum that even the programmers forgot about him?





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"Re(4):Kolin vs. Season 2.5" , posted Tue 21 Mar 07:49post reply

Ah, a good reminderfor this SF5 discussion that balance and fun are not interdependent.





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"Re(2):Kolin vs. Season 2.5" , posted Tue 21 Mar 09:53post reply

quote:
2B's underwear is fiercely white under all that black gothic lolita cosplay.
But then, does it mean Americans prefer black underwear? They find it more comfortable? Sexier? Puritanical American prefer them black because they cover an area that is forever mired in sin? I'm afraid your observation leads to even more mysteries.
While Pollyanna's extended absence has made it more difficult to discuss this question seriously, what I do know is that Capcom USA's sinister and unsexy conspiracy means we are a long way from Sophitia's Soul Calibur 1 underwear code.
quote:
Or is Necalli such a personality vacuum

Who?
quote:
Ah, a good reminderfor this SF5 discussion that balance and fun are not interdependent.

Ha! I do look forward to everyone getting their own Shungokusatsu in the future. It does at least remind me that I miss the sense of not-quite-Marvel-level mayhem that hasn't really been in the series since Zero 3 or so. I felt it a little bit with Season 1 Chun-li's V-trigger mode before they shortened it to about two seconds.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...