| KTallguy 1474th Post
  
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|  "Re(1):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Tue 26 Jan 06:19:  
quote:
Instead, I'll follow on Ktall's comment (welcome back, man!) about story modes. Street Fighter has always been in sort of a weird spot. Whereas Tekken's goofy characters are all sort of oriented around the insane backstory, Street Fighter's appeal is more in the individual relationships of globe-trotting martial artists than the overwrought Shadowloo stuff in the background, I think. Remember the bonus OAV that shipped with SSFIV with all that Juri and military stuff? Oppressive and uninteresting.
I guess what I'm saying is that the only canonical ending to SFZero 3 is when Sodom heroically drives his kabuki otaku truck into Vega's Psycho Drive and saves the world.
Thanks for the warm welcome, I'll do my best to participate ;)
The relationships between the characters are the point, which I like. But they've never really matured. Sakura is still a schoolgirl, still idolizes Ryu. M. Bison(Dictator) is still a... dick. I liked the fanservice-y intro with Guy and Ibuki interacting, but nothing really came of that... I guess it was a dream match anyway.
I know Ken has a family, and now a kid... Chun-li is a cop, etc. I kinda wish that the characters could start the game one way, have some growth, and end the game a changed person.
Sodom's ending is close to that... at least in the eyes of others he was elevated from True Weeaboo to True Samurai. That's kind of like character development...? :)
And Professor, that image you linked burns my eyeballs. Let's pray that the overall quality of the drawn art is better than that (I doubt it's a storyboard, it's too close to final looking).
Play to win... or to have fun too! :)
[this message was edited by KTallguy on Tue 26 Jan 06:19] |
| nobinobita 1543th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(2):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Tue 26 Jan 18:04:
Welcome back KTallguy!
quote:
Sodom's ending is close to that... at least in the eyes of others he was elevated from True Weeaboo to True Samurai. That's kind of like character development...? :)
That's a damn fine example of what makes Street Fighter fun! For me that's way more interesting storytelling than trying to draw everything out into a dreadful formulaic drama that hits all the same emotional beats as every Hollywood TV drama ever.
quote:
And Professor, that image you linked burns my eyeballs. Let's pray that the overall quality of the drawn art is better than that (I doubt it's a storyboard, it's too close to final looking).
As unfinished as that image looks, I think it's wayyyyyy better than the actual in-game graphics or any other art that's been done for the game that wasn't by Bengus or Murata (like this image that could have been farmed out to any generic art studio anywhere in the world). I fear for what this will do to Bengus' career as these are actual very good gestural sketches, but presented as finished art for an over detailed over-rendered game they're primed for North American internet hatred.
quote:
The relationships between the characters are the point, which I like. But they've never really matured. Sakura is still a schoolgirl, still idolizes Ryu. M. Bison(Dictator) is still a... dick. I liked the fanservice-y intro with Guy and Ibuki interacting, but nothing really came of that... I guess it was a dream match anyway.
What's difficult about advancing the plot of Street Fighter is that the characters are actually closer to Super Heroes or the Looney Tunes than characters from a movie, or tv series or manga. The characters are very iconic, so even when they switch hands between creators, they still need a lot of details to remain in place. They can go on adventures which have plots that resolve themselves, but if you change the characters up too much you're messing with the core appeal of that character.
My main worry about people attempting to inject more story into Street Fighter is that they won't actually understand the subtleties of the characters and instead just force very standard generic personalities on to them.
For instance, Ryu will undoubtably be a wooden martial arts otaku who is always really polite and wise. They'll forget little details like how he's very laid back and unjudgemental. How he has no sense of shame or modesty. How he's actually a likeable person who is having a good time with his life and not just a mildly autistic karate guy. You can get snatches of this in the game through his win poses, little story scenes with other characters and promotional art. All this is conveyed through good drawings, through posture. It's visual. Not dialog driven. I doubt whoever is in charge of SFV will care about any of this stuff.
At this point it seems like even Ono has given up on the story in Street Fighter and instead is hoping Ono can actually come up with something interesting to develop the characters further:
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/01/22/onoharada/
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Tue 26 Jan 18:35] |
| Loona 980th Post
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| "Re(2):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Tue 26 Jan 21:19
quote:
Instead, I'll follow on Ktall's comment (welcome back, man!) about story modes. Street Fighter has always been in sort of a weird spot. Whereas Tekken's goofy characters are all sort of oriented around the insane backstory, Street Fighter's appeal is more in the individual relationships of globe-trotting martial artists than the overwrought Shadowloo stuff in the background, I think. Remember the bonus OAV that shipped with SSFIV with all that Juri and military stuff? Oppressive and uninteresting.
I guess what I'm saying is that the only canonical ending to SFZero 3 is when Sodom heroically drives his kabuki otaku truck into Vega's Psycho Drive and saves the world.
Thanks for the warm welcome, I'll do my best to participate ;)
The relationships between the characters are the point, which I like. But they've never really matured. Sakura is still a schoolgirl, still idolizes Ryu. M. Bison(Dictator) is still a... dick. I liked the fanservice-y intro with Guy and Ibuki interacting, but nothing really came of that... I guess it was a dream match anyway.
I know Ken has a family, and now a kid... Chun-li is a cop, etc. I kinda wish that the characters could start the game one way, have some growth, and end the game a changed person.
There's growth in the wider SF story - it just mostly happens outside the games themselves, especially if the character in question debuted in Final Fight:
* Cody's transition from "hero" who cares more about picking fights than the well-being of his his own damn girlfriend to chronic jailbird who gets his meals and clothes from the prison system but his kicks from everywhere else on a whim happened between games, not in them
* Poison's gender issues are well known, and with them comes a race against time and Nature that requires cold hard cash to pay for things like hormones (and taking those is a life-long thing in these circumstances) and certain medical procedures that may not have happened yet; if starting out in the relative poverty that Mad Gear membership and the degraded state that Metro City implies, she's actually been quite the entrepreneur, taking the initiative of recruiting one of her more physically notable acquaintances and going for entertainment entrepreneurship to keep the money flowing. This is also something happening between games and mostly implied.
* Mike Haggar is more of a Street Fighter according to Final Fight lore than actual presence in the games (not counting stage cameos), but he's progressed from wrestler, to mayor, to, according to a screen in a SFxT animation became the mayor of New York at a later time
Practically the only character that significantly changes is Charlie Nash, but that's probably because he started out as Guile's backstory - and backstory is where most of SF's events seem to happen (like once supposed death of Gouken at Gouki's hands).
Apparently Capcom never got round to establishing an official winner to the SF2 tournament, which is only the most famous games in the series. SF1 has the Sagat scarring event, for all the focus that game gets, it's functionally backstory fodder nowadays.
And Capcom's so scared of repeating the problems with SF3's sales they're avoiding touching that story like the plague.
I remember finding it pretty weird when Namco X Capcom followed up on the SFA story by treating Rose as dead, but after all the pointless resurrections in SF4 that toned the impact of what story advancements did exist in the series, I'm kind of OK with it - I'm all for Namco writing for Capcom's characters instead of Capcom itself.
It's pretty weird that despite not caring about story or just being bad at it, SF doesn't just release a dream match game - that worked well for other series like KoF and Tekken...
...!!
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| Micky Kusanagi
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| "Re(3):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Tue 26 Jan 21:26:
That's why I've always enjoyed reading MMC threads: the way the artistic side of games gets discussed. I came for SNK news, I'm staying for the art talk.
Taking a quick read at the latest messages in this thread, I thought about how I'd dare to compare Street Fighter to those wall carvings/paintings from ancient civilizations: kinda like they tell you historical facts or legends without any writing, SF tells you its own plot without a constant use of dialogue in between fights (man I feel inadequate engaging in such discussions...I don't have the same art knowledge as you, hope my reasoning is clear).
Now, on to a more trivial matter: now that the fourth SFV beta is coming, do Japanese PSN users need to specify a credit card/Paypal account to get a free 2-day PS Plus trial? (I personally verified on my PS4 that a 14 days trial does require me to set a payment option) My fighting games skills aren't exactly great, though I love fighting games -it's a paradox, I know-, so I wouldn't feel comfortable buying a 1 month membership on my European account just for a 2 days beta and maybe other "tech checks" and stuff. (I've already used my EUR trial ages ago). But if you need to include card/Paypal credential for a Japanese Plus trial, I'd be in trouble because I can't read Japanese right now, and I could mess things up when it comes to cancel my Plus subscription.
Sorry for the wall of text, and thank you in advance ^^;
Ore no...kachi da!!
[this message was edited by Micky Kusanagi on Tue 26 Jan 21:30] |
| Professor 4748th Post
MMCafe Owner
     
| "Re(3):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Wed 27 Jan 00:26
quote:
As unfinished as that image looks, I think it's wayyyyyy better than the actual in-game graphics or any other art that's been done for the game that wasn't by Bengus or Murata (like this image that could have been farmed out to any generic art studio anywhere in the world). I fear for what this will do to Bengus' career as these are actual very good gestural sketches, but presented as finished art for an over detailed over-rendered game they're primed for North American internet hatred.
From what I understand, Bengus did ALL the drawings for every character's story mode in SFV. That's a lot of drawings, so I can only assume that he had to compromise on time per piece. It's certainly handdrawn art, but imo not at the same level of quality that he's usually known for.
That reminds me though, the Ryu-in-a-breif artwork was originally from a Capcom Secret File if I recall correctly. That stuff was full or artwork that wasn't used commercially, either because it was stuff that the artists drew on their free time or because they couldn't find any good product use.
I can't help but to wonder if the artists at Capcom even draw stuff like that any more.
quote:
Now, on to a more trivial matter: now that the fourth SFV beta is coming, do Japanese PSN users need to specify a credit card/Paypal account to get a free 2-day PS Plus trial?
I don't think Japanese PSN is offering a free trial period right now. When they offer a free period for 7 days or shorter, you'll usually see it on PSNstore and you can grab it without a credit card.
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| karasu 1596th Post
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| "Re(5):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Wed 27 Jan 02:02
quote:
SF backstory and character development
I know my opinion's probably in the minority, but I always enjoyed how the minimalist endings in SFII gave us all just enough info to construct a lot of our own ideas about the motivations and backstrokes of the SF cast. I'm positive that their brevity was due to technical limitations (and were pretty much exactly the same amount of story that was characteristic of all the other arcade games of the tim, e.g. Bad Dudes and the infamous 'President Ronnie has been kidnapped by ninjas'), but my friends and I used to discuss with quite a bit of seriousness the story behind Blanka and Dhalsim, and whether or not the fall of the Soviet Union would effect Zangief. In that regard, the SFIII and SFZ endings were satisfyingly short. Now though everybody expects some sort of brain-breakingly-long story mode like in BlazBlue, so SFV will have to keep up.
quote:
Bengus
Oh boy the Bengus art has some seriously rough edges (to say the least)! I thought maybe after we saw the earliest images of his from SFV that they were early versions or flukes, but I'm thinking that this must be the finished art, and that it will all be about like this. I think we can't let him off the hook for some of the more egregious problems, exactly because it's Bengus, and I know he can do better than that.
You have to carefully reproduce the world of "Castlevania" in the solemn atmosphere.
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| Maou 3053th Post
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| "I wanna take Bengus for a ride" , posted Wed 27 Jan 10:55
I can't help but think that while Bengus is surely challenged to draw a huge amount of art, his peculiar approach is a purposeful experiment. While his brilliant coloring is a constant, even looking at something like his Dragon's Crown guest artwork reveals a totally different approach from his 1990's masterworks. We wouldn't be surprised to see a regular artist experimenting with forms that were previously familiar to them, but it's remarkable to see it in such a high-profile commercial endeavor like Street Fighter. It's such a bold thing to do, though SFV's strange mix of art styles (in-game, renders, Bengus, Kiki, Shinkiro, character portraits) I think it might work. I wish they'd throw Kinu and Akiman into the mix.
Alternate version: SFIV's ugly ugly official artwork matched the ugly ugly in-game artwork, but I don't think the consistency helped it. I kind of like seeing SFV being free to be weird, via Bengus.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| KTallguy 1475th Post
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| "Re(1):I wanna take Bengus for a ride" , posted Wed 27 Jan 14:56:
I really disliked SF4's artwork, especially the original game's key art. It has this over produced feel to it. It seems like SF5 is closer to SF3, which is exactly what I want, all the time.
In general Bengus' art is fine, and obviously if you're drawing every panel in the story that's a ton of art, sometimes good enough is... well good enough. I have a SF art book and I generally prefer Ikeno's work. For me, it strikes the right balance between fluidity and a quiet strength. Although everyone does look pretty serious in his drawings :)
As far as story goes, I think there are a lot of subtle things that KoF games did really well that implied a greater story. Little things like special intro/exit animations for specific character pairs make a huge difference. I wish SFV would go that route, and expand things like between round banter, or unexpected twists or transitions.
For example, in a story mode based on Sagat and Ryu's fight, could it be interesting if you had to beat Sagat 1 or 2 more rounds more than he has to beat you? Would it be fun to see Sagat getting more and more beat up between rounds, or even tripping when he attacks on his last round? What if when Ryu is fighting Sakura, for some reason he wants to avoid using Hadoken, so every time you try to do it he cancels it before it comes out... etc.
The typical solution seems to be lots of text, lots of explanation, and ruining the surprise of stuff like the Sagat thing with a big tutorial text prompt:
"WIN CONDITION: DEFEAT SAGAT 5 TIMES BEFORE HE BEATS YOU 3 TIMES"
In other words, communicate the story through gameplay moments and character interaction, not through a bunch of visual novel sequences that has a lot of people reaching for the skip button.
Play to win... or to have fun too! :)
[this message was edited by KTallguy on Wed 27 Jan 14:57] |
| Loona 984th Post
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| "Re(2):I wanna take Bengus for a ride" , posted Wed 27 Jan 17:27
quote:
For example, in a story mode based on Sagat and Ryu's fight, could it be interesting if you had to beat Sagat 1 or 2 more rounds more than he has to beat you? Would it be fun to see Sagat getting more and more beat up between rounds, or even tripping when he attacks on his last round? What if when Ryu is fighting Sakura, for some reason he wants to avoid using Hadoken, so every time you try to do it he cancels it before it comes out... etc.
The typical solution seems to be lots of text, lots of explanation, and ruining the surprise of stuff like the Sagat thing with a big tutorial text prompt:
"WIN COND
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
I liked how DoA5 handled this, while treating the story mode as a tutorial of sorts, with optional challenges in each playable section - it's not hard to imagine the concept applied to SF, where if you had to reenact the SF1 match between Ryu and Sagat you'd have to finish him off with a Metsu Shoryuken, which could lead to a special animation showing off Sagat's chest getting scarred.
...!!
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| Baines 468th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(6):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Wed 27 Jan 23:03
quote:
SNK tried to come up with elaborate explanations for keeping Nakoruru around and they turned her backstory into an incomprehensible mess that completely missed the point of what made her popular in the first place. Having Sakura stay in school longer than Kyo Kusanagi may not make much sense but it's an obvious and simple way for her not to lose the fighting schoolgirl shtick that makes her character memorable.
Nakoruru's backstory isn't that complicated. She sacrificed herself in the second game, then came back as a forest spirit thingee that might have been based on an Ainu fairy tale. And she may have gained the ability to incarnate as a regular person.
The mess was that SNK for so long tried to dance around the ending of SS2 instead of moving forward.
One could look at KOF as well. Rugal is popular, but SNK decided to keep him dead after 95. They cheat somewhat with Dream Matches, but Rugal hasn't come back. And KOF has benefited from that decision, as it has allowed the series to move on to new enemies and new storylines. If Rugal had continued to lurk in the shadows as a recurring boss, then that might have undermined the Orochi arc, turned NESTS into some sub-arc of Rugal, taken over the Ash arc, and who knows what impact that would have had on new character introductions. KOF uses both the illusion of change as well as actual change. It has helped keep the series from stagnating design-wise.
I think Capcom really missed out on not aging Sakura. Character development and growth isn't a bad thing even in a fighting game. She doesn't need to be an eternal school girl. She can become an adult, and we can see whether she sticks with trying to become like Ryu or moves on to something else. If Capcom wants to revisit schoolgirl Sakura, then they could do it in a crossover, a dream match, a bonus hidden or DLC character, or do another run set earlier in the timeline like Alpha.
If you look at the series as a whole, Chun-Li has herself moved from little girl to adult, though she has largely stayed the same in the process.
Capcom has rewritten Street Fighter's story from game to game, so they could even try something for one game and then revert it in the next if they didn't like it.
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| KTallguy 1475th Post
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| "Re(7):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Thu 28 Jan 03:12
quote:
I think Capcom really missed out on not aging Sakura. Character development and growth isn't a bad thing even in a fighting game. She doesn't need to be an eternal school girl. She can become an adult, and we can see whether she sticks with trying to become like Ryu or moves on to something else. If Capcom wants to revisit schoolgirl Sakura, then they could do it in a crossover, a dream match, a bonus hidden or DLC character, or do another run set earlier in the timeline like Alpha.
The real answer to this is money. When a character that people like changes too much, it loses its brand value. Changes have to be handled very carefully. I don't watch the show, but I think a good example is young Naruto to older Naruto, at least from a visual standpoint.
I would be very interested in college or mid 20s versions of these younger SF female characters, but I imagine aging Chun-li into her 40s wouldn't go over very well. Just ask Hollywood :)
Play to win... or to have fun too! :)
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| Micky Kusanagi
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| "Re(6):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Fri 29 Jan 19:41
OK, I took a break from playing the SFV beta -thank you again Professor for the directions ^^- to take a look at this thread and share my very first impressions with you.
From the perspective of an unskilled player, it sure feels great. Smooth, responsive controls -I felt SFIV stiffer...-, everything feels intuitive to me. Did I get it right that there are less links than in SFIV? Or is my timing off? Oh, and the in-game art style definitely looks superior to SFIV to me. I'd preorder it even if it had the same graphics as SFIV -don't remember if I already mentioned I preordered the Hot! Package...THAT BOXART *_*-, but seeing Capcom has stepped away (a bit) from that style is a relief to me. Music? Don't get me started about how better SFV stage themes sound to me compared to the SFIV ones xD Same for character themes.
If you like the idea of beating a Ken scrub easily, KyoKusanagi84JA is my JP PSN account and MicheleKusanagi is my CFN ID, LOL I'll make another JP account as soon as my 2 days trial expires, so that I can take advantage of another trial and play the beta till the end. I'd buy a 1 month JP Plus membership from a certain site I found these days, but I'm not sure I can trust it...
Ore no...kachi da!!
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| Professor 4757th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(7):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Fri 29 Jan 21:09:
quote:
OK, I took a break from playing the SFV beta -thank you again Professor for the directions ^^- to take a look at this thread and share my very first impressions with you.
From the perspective of an unskilled player, it sure feels great. Smooth, responsive controls -I felt SFIV stiffer...-, everything feels intuitive to me. Did I get it right that there are less links than in SFIV? Or is my timing off? Oh, and the in-game art style definitely looks superior to SFIV to me. I'd preorder it even if it had the same graphics as SFIV -don't remember if I already mentioned I preordered the Hot! Package...THAT BOXART *_*-, but seeing Capcom has stepped away (a bit) from that style is a relief to me. Music? Don't get me started about how better SFV stage themes sound to me compared to the SFIV ones xD Same for character themes.
If you like the idea of beating a Ken scrub easily, KyoKusanagi84JA is my JP PSN account and MicheleKusanagi is my CFN ID, LOL I'll make another JP account as soon as my 2 days trial expires, so that I can take advantage of another trial and play the beta till the end. I'd buy a 1 month JP Plus membership from a certain site I found these days, but I'm not sure I can trust it...
No problem'. You might want to check on when the trial ends; you should be able to switch console language to English to browse through things even in JP account except when you go in really deep into the menu (the last part of disabling PSNPlus might be in JP; if you need help just send snapshots).
As for gameplay, SFV doesn't seem link-intensive as IV was. The combos for the general part seems pretty simple and it seems to emphasize more on hitting opponents after a counter (they'll be opened up to attacks).
[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 29 Jan 21:12] |
| Micky Kusanagi
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| "Re(8):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Fri 29 Jan 21:38
quote:
No problem'. You might want to check on when the trial ends; you should be able to switch console language to English to browse through things even in JP account except when you go in really deep into the menu (the last part of disabling PSNPlus might be in JP; if you need help just send snapshots).
As for gameplay, SFV doesn't seem link-intensive as IV was. The combos for the general part seems pretty simple and it seems to emphasize more on hitting opponents after a counter (they'll be opened up to attacks).
I set my system language to English as soon as I hooked my PS4 up because certain games have horrible Italian translations xD I don't remember if I had specified it, but this 2 day trial doesn't require any payment option set in your PSN account, so it's gonna expire on its own without any chance of being charged, but still, I'll definitely check my Plus settings to familiarize with them -for when I buy a membership- and with the Japanese language -I'm taking a break from my studies to enjoy the SFV beta to the fullest, but as soon the beta ends I'll get back to study.
So, my impressions about links were right...besides, after reading your post, I had a little vs CPU training and got a few Crush Counters, and I remembered counters should play a big role in SFV.
Ore no...kachi da!!
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| Mosquiton 2117th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):fists will fly at this location" , posted Sat 30 Jan 17:05
quote:
Beta! The gang's all here, which is nice.
The versus screen still takes too long to load, and you can't press random buttons to make characters taunt each other while you wait like in Soul Calibur II. Why?
Laura is fun. I actually won a round online. This never happens.
This seems like as good a place as anywhere: what are people doing for controllers? I'm in a minority in that I prefer them to joysticks, but the beta at least won't recognize my PS2 Saturn pad (via USB converter) on Steam. Maybe this will change with the final, but if not, I'd love to hear any reviews. Madcatz's directional pad looks slippery and awful, and Hori's looks like the SFC's deficient four-directional pad from 20 years ago...huh?
I don't have room for a stick these days, I now use one of these.
It feels solid, it feels smooth. The first thing I did with it was 10 hooligan consecutive hooligan rolls, easy peasy.
Is the one you're disparaging based on looks? Sure, the Saturn d-pad was/is great, but just because a d-pad is connected in that fashion doesn't make it superior to the classic SNES/SFC design. Just try using the god-awful Xbox 360 d-pad for anything. It's got the circular mono-button but it is absolutely horrible to use. Looking at looks won't give you a feel for the feel.
/ / /
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| Micky Kusanagi
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| "Re(1):fists will fly at this location" , posted Sat 30 Jan 21:14
quote:
This seems like as good a place as anywhere: what are people doing for controllers? I'm in a minority in that I prefer them to joysticks, but the beta at least won't recognize my PS2 Saturn pad (via USB converter) on Steam. Maybe this will change with the final, but if not, I'd love to hear any reviews. Madcatz's directional pad looks slippery and awful, and Hori's looks like the SFC's deficient four-directional pad from 20 years ago...huh?
HRAP Hayabusa "Version 2", the one with the matte buttons. I have a PS2 full Sanwa stick and I really didn't wanna give up on it -I'm still using it on my PS2-, but touchpad is getting more and more support...I mean, it has THREE pressure points in SFV. I can't believe Hori and Madcatz ripped us off so hard by releasing PS4 sticks without a built-in touchpad -do I remember well the first PS4 Hori sticks don't have it?-...good thing I waited for the Chassis C model to buy a PS4.
Besides, I must admit Hayabusa lever and buttons are better than JLF and OBSFs, at least for my taste.
Ore no...kachi da!!
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| Iggy 10118th Post
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| "Re(2):fists will fly at this location" , posted Sat 30 Jan 23:59
I still don't know what I'm doing, but for the moment I really like Laura. If FANG gets added tomorrow I'll move to him, if not I may try Rashid.
One thing that often get overlooked in the "SF5 so ugly" rants is how naturally and beautifully the body of each character is animated. Unfortunately, it's merely "the body" since the hair and accessories are still a clipping clusterfuck even on the selection screen, but seeing Rashid arching forward for a few steps before moving his shoulders, or Cammy keeping her fingers straight and wide spread while Laura has them dialling in the air... Many characters have long circles of idle animations, they remind me of Blue Mary's. They all express subtly the personality of the character, it's just beautiful and charming. This is all the scenario Street Fighter characters need to have, really. Tell me who this person is by showing me how she moves.
One of the things I hated in SF4 was the barebone animation of most characters, and while some of the later additions received a better treatment (and the Tekken characters from SFxT, even more), SF5 treated its current 15 characters beautifully. The way Vega moves his fingers finally makes me forget the terrible animation he used to have until last year.
Meanwhile, I just learned MK was more popular than SF in the US. Did MK vs DC sell more than MvC3 as well? Do comic book fans not care about the way their favourite characters animate? The personal animations of most MvC3 characters was so charming and telling, even without knowing the character, that I cannot understand how anyone would prefer his fanservice game animated like everyone moves with a broom stuck deep up his butt.
Different strokes, I guess.
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| Maou 3055th Post
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| "penguins will fly at this location" , posted Sun 31 Jan 01:54
quote:
Looking at looks won't give you a feel for the feel.
Mosquiton: U Rappin': GOOD
I may have been remiss in recoiling at the strangely misshapen Hori controller. Your experience sounds great! I'm baffled that you can get good results just from a cross-shaped directional pad. As a reference, I never had particularly good results with SFII on SFC, and of course I've never done a Final Atomic Buster in my life on a PS pad. Will I fare better here?
Prof: Great point, thanks! I'm new to playing on PC since...what would I do with a PS4? Strange thing is, my PS2 Saturn pad works just fine on other Steam games using a USB converter. Maybe the beta just hasn't bothered with full support yet?
Micky: Hayabusa is gorgeous. Too bad I've never been very good on joysticks!
Iggy: I also love the attention to detail, which feels very "Street Fighter" to me. People complain about crowded stages, but I also propose that the most important detail of all is on the best stage: the takahe, a creature (nearly) as magnificent as the penguin!
Actually, besides Necalli, I keep forget what we are complaining about, art-wise. Was it the backgrounds? In an ideal world I would be able to play SF Zero 2 and Vampire all day on a modern console with you all via the internet and/or SFV would look like Guilty Gear Xrd, but thinking back on the dreariness of Marvel 3 or the consistent ugliness of SFIV, I can't think of a Capcom fighter that looks better that isn't from...1999?
OTHER ADVENTURES: Ever since SFII, it's been continuous Hitchcockian suspense whether in a new release Chun-li will be mostly a motion character (hooray!) or a have a charge Kikouken (argh!). This choice hurts me.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Spoon 3216th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):penguins will fly at this location" , posted Sun 31 Jan 09:38:
quote:
charge or motion kikoken
Motion Kikoken is more "fun" but it tends to work out oddly. The general rule of "motion = slower startup and/or recovery" and the fact that Chun shouldn't be winning fireball wars with Ken and Ryu means that the motion Kikoken usually has to have really slow startup and really long recovery and is much less safe on block. It can be used as combo filler, to somewhat stave off other fireballs, or to provide a wall she can advance behind, but it's always felt kind of awkward.
In games where it doesn't make sense for her to have a hugenormous fireball for normal use (i.e. Vs. Series), she's so outclassed projectile-wise that no attempt at improving the startup and recovery of it can fix it short of giving it no recovery at all and turning her into a bullet hell, which has never been her archetype. Still, I really like how in MvC3, they took the idea of "higher strength = shorter range" all the way and turned heavy Kikoken into a point-blank range palm strike that crumples the opponent.
quote:
takahe
I am 100% sure that the first time the NZ stage was unveiled, I mentioned that the takahe were what tipped me off that it was in NZ more than any geographical feature shown!
Personally, I hope that it makes more people interested in the incredible and awesome/adorable birds of NZ. I've gotten to meet a bunch of them upclose, and I can assure you that if it weren't for the Kiwi bird the Weka would be a favourite. The Takahe sounds like a goose and eats grass... though common pasture grass isn't indigenous to NZ! Pukeko is the skinner, angrier, more aggressive, more flight-capable bird that is colored just like a Takahe. Kakapo is an enormous... budgie, I guess. Keas will open your bags and eat your foods, like raccoons, except that they don't destroy and ruin everything because seriously ground-dwelling mammals are like RPG min-maxed monstrosities. Kereru is a giant pigeon that eats leaves and makes spaceship noises when in flight.
Also, New Zealand has penguins.
In short, New Zealand is the best.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Sun 31 Jan 09:45] |
| Maou 3056th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Juan's penguins will fly at this location" , posted Sun 31 Jan 13:57
Red Knight: My converter was just an inexpensive Chinese-made PS2-to-PS3 USB converter which probably couldn't have cost more than six US dollars. No brand, nothing meaningful written on it. It's always performed well using a PS2 Saturn pad on a PS3 and on Steam PC games (except SFV so far). They're cheap enough on Amazon and the like that trial and error may net you one that works for your setup. The main reason I've kept using it is that the PC (USB) official Saturn pad is expensive, out of print, and rare, and I have little confidence in the highly inexpensive copies that are widely available, often labeled "Retro" or similar. Also: in some other thread, we should talk about Fightcade and other confusing media through which I gather I can play old 1990s Capcom games online with people...easily, legally, maybe?
Mosquiton: That's highly appealing! I hadn't thought about the shared indentation of the pad and at first was thinking you were referring to the strange American version of the Saturn pad. But, but...I'm scared not to have the eight-way design! In all seriousness, if you can 720 as effortlessly as on Saturn, that should be good enough for me.
Spoon: At first, I was wowed with the thoughtful Advanced Kikouken Theory quote:
The general rule of "motion = slower startup and/or recovery" and the fact that Chun shouldn't be winning fireball wars with Ken and Ryu means that the motion Kikoken usually has to have really slow startup and really long recovery and is much less safe on block.
but then you floored me with the second half with quote:
Kereru is a giant pigeon that eats leaves and makes spaceship noises when in flight.
I couldn't have written a better description if I were Juan himself. People, I meet you and the takahes online in 18 days on the New Zealand level, and only ever the New Zealand level. I would also play Angry Pukekos IOS.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Micky Kusanagi
12th Post
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New Customer
| "Re(1):Juan's penguins will fly at this locati" , posted Sun 31 Jan 20:53:
Maou: could it be that your converter doesn't support XInput? Even though I'm playing the SFV beta on PS4, I've read tons of warnings about how mandatory an XInput controller is for the PC version.
I'm DISGUSTED at the input lag that gets added when I'm challenged online. Of all the matches I lost, I could've won half of them if controls were more responsive. I've even set my network stuff to PS4 only and 5 only!! I only get European opponents, but still, I get significant lag that I don't have during my endless training sessions.
Is there anyone tech savvy enough here at the Cafe to tell me whether my only issue is that I can't get an open NAT?* My connection is nominally a 20Mb/1Mb ADSL, download actually fluctuates between 16Mb and 18Mb, upload is very, very close to 1Mb. My ISP is changing cables and stuff in the streets around my house so they should switch my connection to fiber for free next month.
*My ISP gives you a private IP by default, you must contact them on their FB page if you want a static, public IP, which is crucial in getting an open NAT for online gaming as far as I know. It's free of charge and I asked for it yesterday, but hey, it's still a pain in the ass.
EDIT: since the Japanese beta ends way sooner than the US one, does any of you happen to have a US PS4 spare beta key? I'd really be grateful to you if you gave me one. I really need some extra hours of training, especially now that some simple links -like Ken's "dash" V-skill into LK Tatsu and cr.MP into back+MP- are slowly turning into second nature to me...it's the first time I take a fighting game so seriously, and the Cafe definitely has a role in this.
If the beta ends in Europe at the same time as the US, an European key is fine as well.
Ore no...kachi da!!
[this message was edited by Micky Kusanagi on Sun 31 Jan 21:20] |
| Professor 4759th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(2):Juan's penguins will fly at this locati" , posted Sun 31 Jan 23:35:
For anyone enjoying the Beta on a JP account, the test has been extended by 12 hours to Feb 1 noon JST so have fun fiddling around!
Also, Fang reportedly won't be available at this beta.
Maou: Like Mickey said, it's pretty likely that your converter only supports the classic DirectInput format from the 32bit era and not Xinput. It's like that with a lot of USB controllers so not really surprising.
Also the official USB Saturn pad doesn't work out-of-the-box with newer Windows OS so it might not nessesarily be the best choice. I have it but it needs some energy saving options changed via windows registry which I'm not really fond of.
Micky Kusanagi- Quick reply: Yes you need an open NAT. Aside from that, other things that make a difference is
1- Don't use wireless connection, it makes everything really choppy and laggy
2- Don't connect using doubled up routers (if you have a router modem, don't connect another router to it if you're splitting your internet connection to your PC, PS4, etc. Use a hub instead. Not a problem if you have a bridge modem)
Btw your connection bandwidth (**MB) doesn't have relation to how good a gameplay you'll get since it's only a measurement of data volume per second-- what you need to know is your ping speed, which tells you how fast a connection you have (** ms/milliseconds).
[this message was edited by Professor on Sun 31 Jan 23:57] |
| Micky Kusanagi
13th Post
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New Customer
| "Re(3):Juan's penguins will fly at this locati" , posted Sun 31 Jan 23:56:
quote:
Micky Kusanagi- Quick reply: Yes you need an open NAT. Aside from that, other things that make a difference is
1- Don't use wireless connection, it makes everything really choppy and laggy
2- Don't connect using doubled up routers (if you have a router modem, don't connect another router to it if you're splitting your internet connection to your PC, PS4, etc. Use a hub instead.)
Btw your connection bandwidth (**MB) doesn't have relation to how good a gameplay you'll get since it's only a measurement of data volume per second-- what you need to know is your ping speed, which tells you how fast a connection you have (** ms/milliseconds).
Supportive like always, thank you :) My ISP contacted me a while ago via FB -I was surprised since it's Sunday O_O-, and they're already handling my static IP request, so things should go for the better in a couple days, at least for the NAT issue.
If I remember my latest speed tests well, my ping is 50-60 ms. I'm already on a wired connection. My modem should be a simple modem as far as I know, it's called ADB DA2200 (ADB is the brand, DA2200 is the model).
EDIT: I've just seen your edit, thank you for the news on the JP beta schedule :D I'm a bit sad F.A.N.G isn't in, but at least I could enjoy trying out all the other chars ^_^
EDIT 2: it's amazing how different Ryu and Ken's outfits look from each other -besides the obvious change of making Ken keep the top of his gi around his waist-: Ryu's is all torn and dirty, there are even white borders all around his belt -you know what they say, you're a true martial arts master when your black belts reverts to white-, whlist Ken's is in mint condition, as if he bought a brand new one for each fight. What a spoiled brat x'D
Ore no...kachi da!!
[this message was edited by Micky Kusanagi on Mon 1 Feb 01:04] |
| Spoon 3220th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Juan's penguins will fly at this locati" , posted Mon 1 Feb 07:59
Having tried some of the beta, I have to say that the automatching (that cannot be disabled because it's a network test after all) makes the Training Mode absurd. You'll spend like 10s loading into training mode, 10s loading into the match that just got made, immediately after the match ends you can either go back to the main menu in like 5s or wait 10s to go back into the training mode character select screen from which you can wait another 10s to go into training mode.
I just want to look at the movelist and try them out!
Damage for really simple combos feels very high in this game. A super basic Karin combo of j.HP, d.HP xx QCB+LP, d.K deals like 25%. On the other hand, the timing/hitbox for jumping attacks versus crouchers, or maybe just the hitbox for crouching characters, feels quite weird to me so far. It's unusually difficult for me to land a crossup on a character that's crouching; it just whiffs sometimes! I get the feeling that the way the characters are animated for their crouching animations is much much larger than their vulnerable box is, so what at first glance seems like a move that should be a hit instead is a miss.
Weird things beat things in this game, and by "weird things" I think I really just mean "mash crouching normals!". Karin's QCB+P gets beaten by d.HK by a number of characters, even when Karin is cancelling into the QCB+P on block. I get that it shouldn't be safe, but it seems like the kind of move that should crush lows, not get beaten by them!
Rounds end really fast even for beginner players because of the overall high damage that is immediately accessible. Like, if your go-to upon seeing "Crush Counter" is just to mash d.HK, it already means your successful counter-hitting of somebody with a heavy normal is doing like 180% of normal damage. The super basic combo of "heavy jump in, heavy normal xx special" does quite a lot of damage for seemingly everybody.
Super dumb trick to making damage in a game seem higher:
Make the health bar take up a longer amount of the screen, especially with a wider aspect screen. Losing 25% of your health on a 16:9 where your life bar is 7.3 of the 16 is much more impressive than losing 25% of a 4:3 where your lifebar is 1.3 of the 4.
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| Maou 3059th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Juan's penguins will fly at this location" , posted Mon 1 Feb 14:37:
Prof and Micky: Thanks a million! It was indeed a Direct Input issue, though why Capcom couldn't be bothered to include Direct Input support I can't imagine. JoyToKey works perfectly!
BETA'S OVER (REALLY)
Character department: I sure saw a lot of...Ryus and Kens! I didn't mind having my final round be a loss to a Nash, just for the variety. Vegamoto feels shockingly fast! He felt as nimble as he first did in SFII, even with his Zero series bulky design.
Sound department: In the final version, it will be fun if we can select whether the character theme or regular stage music plays when playing online. It will also be fun if the same mad genius who made a SFZero 3 announcer mod for SFIV on Steam will do the same for V. V's guy is borrrring.
Pain department: Will the final version have as incredibly long loading as the beta? The "here comes a new challenger" segment takes as long as the versus screen, which also takes forever.
Assets department: The good news on the versus screen is that the bounce on the 2P side remains, proving that the real glitch is on the 1P side.
Namco department: The unique character-specific attacks (not hissatsuwaza/specials) are still such an odd Namco-like input in Street Fighter, but kind of fun. It's such a joy that Chun-li's   is a maddening little auto-crossup kick that shoots you over to hit people in the back of the head. I look forward to getting railed on by similar tricks from other players.
Attention to detail department: I adore how there's brief animation for Chun-li's bounce-jump off the corner of the screen, where she grabs onto the surface and launchs herself. Twenty years later, the bounce-jump looks natural at last.
takahe takahe takahe takahe takahe
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 1 Feb 14:41] |
| Maou 3060th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Juan's penguins will fly at this locati" , posted Thu 4 Feb 13:48
quote:
Chun-li was a joy to play in this round of beta, even if I only got my Saturn pad online after it was done.
Which pad did you buy? I'm looking for one now.
Oh, thanks to the JoyToKey application, I just used the abovementioned PS2-to-USB converter to plug in my old Street Figther anniversary Saturn pad by Nuby, the very some one that the Cafe recommended for me years ago! Start and Select are in dumb places, and you're stuck with Udon art, but at least mine is Chun-li kicking her skirt up. Shoryuken had a review, too. The directional pad is outstanding and works on Windows 10 for me. I wouldn't pay any MORE for this one than I would for Sega's official Saturn USB pad (not the knock-offs), but quite nice. Alternately, if you're on a PC, the previous generation of Madcatz SFIV pads were servicable and of course require no converters for PC. Art's even worse, though.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Iggy 10120th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P - IGGY ARI !
| "Re(2):New Trailer" , posted Tue 9 Feb 21:18
It was all fine with Necalli, FANG and Rashid, until I noticed someone was missing and I had to play "Where is Laura".
I wonder if Rashid and FANG are supposed to be rivals... or if they just ended up interacting with each other because their design was finalized at a later stage, so the team who did the movie had to leave them aside while working on the characters whose design was ready (that would explain Laura's subliminal appearance too, I guess).
I also wonder if Cammy and Chunli's 3D models are 1:1 reused from the SSF4 opening movie
As for Necalli: yeah, I guess the hair made everyone think "Is that Gill?" for a while. That's also the only way to rationalize the stuttering and the fact he's so obviously stupid (or rather, wild?) while being pushed so much as "the important new character": at some point, he will become supremely intelligent and full of himself, so they are over-emphasizing the "before" part to make the gap more obvious. I didn't quite foresee that he would become intelligent by swallowing Ryu's "dumb&evil" persona, though.
Makes you wonder what they'll do with Urien, though. Was Urien always a smart asshole or did he also evolve?
Or maybe we're wrong and Necalli is nothing more than Santana.
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| Micky Kusanagi
21th Post
PSN: n/a
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New Customer
| "Re(4):New Ramen" , posted Tue 9 Feb 21:44
quote:
Per Professor's newest post, the SFV Ramen Shop reminds me of the very first SFV trailer, and in turn of how I sure didn't get to knock noodles onto anyone's head in the beta. Wasn't this going to be a feature? I want it to be a feature.
I wish that feature was around for other stages too! The Hong Kong stage was the only location that seems to have that feature-- I guess the devs decided it's not important, but IMO it's what really makes fighting games fun.
This. I love when there's some kind of stage interaction in fighting games, which manages to be fun without adding to the actual gameplay -I don't remember if smashing objects on the sides gave you additional damage or something in SFIIWW-, such a nice touch.
Maou, Iggy: some minutes after sending my previous message in this thread, I found myself thinking about how much Necalli looks like Gill xD The resemblance is just too obvious not to hint at some Necalli-Illuminati connection, and with Necalli's Aztec armor and Urien's planned inclusion in the roster, we got a nice potpourri of esoteric stuff and elements from ancient civilizations :D
After being sold on the gameplay as soon as I started playing the beta -this game almost has the same feel as 3S plus the V-stuff IMO, and I love this-, I'm getting more and more curious about what crazy stuff Capcom's coming up with story wise.
Ore no...kachi da!!
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| Iggy 10123th Post
Star Platinum Carpet- S.P.W. Board Master
| "Re(5):New Vega(s)" , posted Thu 11 Feb 22:33
Unlockable costumes for everyone.
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201602/11099224.html
FANG is great, Chunli is fine, Birdie is obvious and cool (and it will keep Rufus even further away from this game), and most of the others are EWWWW.
Hopefully, the paid costumes (of which we know Hot Ryu&Chunli&Vega, as well as unrecognizable haircut Cammy) will be better.
Surprising that Ryu, Ken and Nash are "classic designs", yet Dhalsim is a very minor variation of his current one. Why didn't they take off his bear and turban? Not that it matters as the default version is great, but for the sake of completion.
Also, battles with NPC (Hi Abel!) and more alternate versions of stages (hopefully all stages will have an alternate version without bystanders).
Alex before steroids.
http://i.imgur.com/AJEpFbL.jpg
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| Micky Kusanagi
24th Post
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New Customer
| "Re(6):New Vega(s)" , posted Fri 12 Feb 00:21
Wanna get the bad things out of my way first: I'm baffled at the amount of stuff not included in the game disc. Cinematic story mode, spectator mode, trial mode...that's all stuff I'd rather get without any waiting. Whatever...
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Boring (but optimistic) Fight Money rate rambling. At least, according to my calculations, getting additional chars for free should be easy and fast. When I played the last beta, I set my challengers search to "PS4 only" and "5 only" to limit my amount of matches because of my not so great skills, and I managed to get 3500 Fight Money in 3 days (I seriously hope I didn't misread some other value for fight money in my player profile). Who knows how much fight money will we be able to get if we set any ranked match search restriction to off?
End of Spoiler
Dress Karin turns my eyes into hearts  Not so much as Hot! Chun Li, but she's still something. Policewoman Chun Li looks good as well. Rufusized Birdie is brilliant, and I like casual(-ish?) Rashid cause, like Karin, he's a nice change from Capcom's preference for costumes that would be impractical -what a huge understatement xD- in everyday life. Venice Carnival Claw is great!! I acknowledge Bonita Laura a shameless lewd factor, but besides that her alternate isn't among my faves.
Ore no...kachi da!!
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| Maou 3068th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Art Week" , posted Fri 12 Feb 13:48
quote:
Just out of curiousity, which characters are everyone interested in playing?
It's got to be Chun-li! I will overcome my dislike of charge characters to have someone beautiful on my screen at all times, and I haven't seen Chun looking this great since Third Strike, which was an appearance so good as to make me almost put up with...playing Third Strike. Laura has a great sense of impact even if I don't get why she has an input throw. Speedy Vegamoto is so speedy that I might forget he's a charge character and use him, too. Sorry, Papa Chun-li.
ACTUALLY POSTING REAL INFORMATION NOW
You can pre-download the game for PC now, and my computer tells me it's 6.4 gigs. That's less than...Ori and the Blind Forest?! Spoiler: Alex's download alone will be 55 gigs to punish the small but vocal cast of confused people always yelling for his return. You heard it here first.
quote:
This art has been successful in reminding me of how much I want more Ghost Trick in my life.
Holy mackerel, that's it, I knew that angular style was reminding me of something! Turns out it was my subconscious guilt about never playing Ghost Trick, let alone finishing Last Window.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Iggy 10128th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P Requiem
| "Re(3):Top-tier" , posted Tue 16 Feb 03:50
quote:
Lord Vegamoto, forgive me! In an effort to avoid overlapping icons, I erred in placing him below Chun-li rather than off the charts where he belongs. The situation has been improved.
This is much better. And your offering was much appreciated!
It's true that Laura's VA is a bit too low-tension for the character (we are talking about the Japanese one, are we?), but as someone expecting to use her a lot, I think it might be for the best. A long, long time ago, I was playing Yuri in KOF98, until a friend of mine couldn't bear her screams anymore and started using Athena in retaliation. I quickly understood the errors of my way...
So I'll take a little weak but tolerable performance in this specific case.
As for Christie, I remember she was one of the character I changed to English because the Japanese voice was ridiculous. The English one was mostly good (I really liked the "Too bad, so sad" line, but there was no saving to "This is my specialty").
I still think Karin's "Hohoho" is weak in this game. Hopefully I won't hear it too often.
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| Maou 3073th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Top-tier" , posted Tue 16 Feb 04:54
Iggy-nton: Right you are about Karin's weak laugh, and she's been graded accordingly. It's not like the ojousama is an unfamiliar archtype, so I'm not sure how they got someone so unimpressive. I can only imagine how awful she must sound in English (available female voice acting modes: "angry yelling" or "valley girl").
Laura is just so blah...not deep enough a voice, I think. When I mentioned Christie, I guess it revealed that the last Tekken I played was 4 (ick), wherein I think she only ever spoke in English, though equally as poorly as Laura's Japanese actress. Though yelling doesn't have to be bad! 1990s SF voice acting was great, especially in Zero---friends endured hours of Sakura yelling without it being (I think) particularly annoying.
Ish: It's true that there's only so much point in timelines, though the redesigns did make me think they might update Sakura (you can still have a short pleated skirt and not have it be sailor fuku, not that I care). Then again, while the Zero series had a remarkably cohesive story that was just the right amount of fun and seriousness, I stopped expecting anything once IV seemed to ignore everyone's ages and/or previous deaths. Better at that point to just ignore the story entirely or reset it...IV was sort of a weak spot in between. Not that there's any reason to connect III's non-characters to its non-story, SFV Urien be damned.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Spoon 3240th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Top-tier" , posted Tue 16 Feb 05:43
quote:
I guess some people enjoy trying to pin down exact dates for fictional street fights but it always seemed like a lot of work to me for little to no result. Besides, it seems like Capcom has always been perfectly happy to reset timelines and continuity whenever necessary anyway. For example, Ono recently tweeted that Sakura will always be a schoolgirl. So sorry to those folks who wanted an old Sakura but she's never going to show up without wearing a skirt. Nor should she.
Maybe tomorrow after I've spent some time with SF5 I might have something useful to post but I doubt it.
Really, it's just an amusing tidbit, mainly because in SF2 they actually put down specific years in the character profiles. SF2X wasn't the first game for them to not do that, but by the time SFA1 hit they had certainly stopped, because it really was needlessly dating the characters. Sakura being an eternal schoolgirl and others always being around the same age, heck, even characters attached to characters always being the same age, like Ken's son Mel never aging, doesn't particularly bother me.
Terry aged a bit in Garou, and that turned out fine. Plenty of Samurai Shodown characters I think could age and still be totally cool, except that Sen makes me wonder if they can pull it off, however far SNK is removed from Sen.
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| nobinobita 1555th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(5):Top-tier" , posted Tue 16 Feb 16:14
quote:
I guess some people enjoy trying to pin down exact dates for fictional street fights but it always seemed like a lot of work to me for little to no result. Besides, it seems like Capcom has always been perfectly happy to reset timelines and continuity whenever necessary anyway. For example, Ono recently tweeted that Sakura will always be a schoolgirl. So sorry to those folks who wanted an old Sakura but she's never going to show up without wearing a skirt. Nor should she.
Maybe tomorrow after I've spent some time with SF5 I might have something useful to post but I doubt it.
Really, it's just an amusing tidbit, mainly because in SF2 they actually put down specific years in the character profiles. SF2X wasn't the first game for them to not do that, but by the time SFA1 hit they had certainly stopped, because it really was needlessly dating the characters. Sakura being an eternal schoolgirl and others always being around the same age, heck, even characters attached to characters always being the same age, like Ken's son Mel never aging, doesn't particularly bother me.
Terry aged a bit in Garou, and that turned out fine. Plenty of Samurai Shodown characters I think could age and still be totally cool, except that Sen makes me wonder if they can pull it off, however far SNK is removed from Sen.
Anyone follow the Lupe vs Daigo fiasco?
My friends who play competitively swear that Daigo threw the match as he whiffed stuff like "a super basic V trigger combo." I don't know the game well enough to tell if Lupe is just awesome, the game is just LOLsy (like Tekken where a friend of mine who plays competitively was once knocked out of a Gamestop tournament by a random 9 year old mashing buttons) if Daigo has just lost it, or he took a dive at Capcom's behest.
What do you guys think?
www.art-eater.com
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| Micky Kusanagi
31th Post
PSN: n/a
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Rare Customer
| "Re(8):Top-tier" , posted Wed 17 Feb 00:32
quote:
Thanks for the link Nobi! I'll need to check it out.
[edit] Saw it. He's completely playing around. Either that, or he's been boozing non-stop on his flight.
As for chip damage KO, SFV only allows it with supers. On the flip side though, not only special moves but normal fierce attacks do chip damage in the game.
The game of all things doesn't have a lobby function yet, so perhaps interested cafe members can have a gathering once the patch comes around.
I only saw the first match, and to me, the action looks scripted, at least in part, like the almost specular Shoryukens in the last round of the first match. LOL at the booze joke, I guess we all thought about it xD
Cafe lobby after the 8 players patch comes? Count me in!! I'm gonna use my definitive Jap PSN account, MickyKusanagi, and my CFN ID will be the same.
Ore no...kachi da!!
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| Maou 3075th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Beta-tier" , posted Wed 17 Feb 01:44:
Urgh, four betas later, what a botched PC launch. I...don't think I've ever had an EULA crash on me. Ah well. I was okay with them basically releasing it first as an online fighting game with no meaningful single player options yet, but server crashes left me with an offline online fighting game---that's even less fun than offline online RPG Final Oiyoiyo XII!
They'd better get those servers robust soon for the pros, because casual players sure aren't going to be having any fun. I've heard this needed to come out soon to make it for e-sports and things, but I'd really like to see what financial model justifies getting it into a small number of pros' hands while convincing the casual public it's junk. I assume you only have one chance to get the attention of the latter, and isn't over-reliance on the former the symbol of the bad old days of 2D fighting games' post-90s decline? "Check back in a month when it's a full game" isn't going to cut it for non-fans when reviews and ads have already come and gone.
The plus side: the game is still great fun, and even if Story Mode is a joke with only three single-round mindless AI fights per character, I still like Bengus' kamishibai picture show. Is no-pants Cammy the true successor to Sakura? First man who tells me how to extract the Bengus pictures which might get obliterated by future updates gets 1000 zeny. I guess if we think of it as "extended beta" until March, things will feel better.
Oddly enough, I was most exasperated not with the lack of arcade mode or lobbies or story or servers even, but by the PC version's seeming inability to switch text/language interfaces as promised in the store. Changing Steam's language doesn't do it. Any PC players seeing differently?
Edit: While I'm baffled that Capcom is selling a product on Steam that claims to have multiple interfaces accessible yet has no Language tab available on the Steam menu, I can't imagine it's at the front of the line of many problems to fix. Happily, the friendly maniacs of Neogaf helped me out: on Windows, in-game text interface is tied to your computer's Time and Date settings (!?!). You can also change the interface through the process at the end of this first post, substituting "culture=ja" for Japanese, etc. as appropriate.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Wed 17 Feb 02:43] |
| Iggy 10134th Post
Star Platinum Carpet- S.P.W. Board Master
| "Re(4):Re(10):Beta-tier" , posted Wed 17 Feb 03:51:
Maou, let me toast to your marvelous discovery.
I had to suffer my Bio 4 HD shouting RESIDENT EVIL... FOUUUUR every time I launched it, but having a fake Vegamoto in my game would have been worse.
Plus, a friend of mine only plays Balrog and I wouldn't have wanted to confuse him.
quote:
From the subreddit Maou linked to
Is this real life? Who is the kind soul I should thank for this?
EDIT AFTER TRYING THE GAME
Wow, that's pretty bad. 2 hours and not a single match. How come even the first beta worked better? I think I even had some tearing that wasn't there during the beta!
The good:
*Maou's trick worked! Vegasama and Balrog are saved!
*The survival mode is GREAT. It re-uses the rule from Jojo on DC, where you could pick a bonus at the end of the round for the next one. This is all the single-player mode I need, really.
*Bengus's sketches are better than I thought. Yes, they are rough, but Karin and Ken actually look good there. The amazing power of strong fundamentals: whatever sketch this guy draws has more life and sense of purpose than any of the finalized art the goons of Udon spit on a regular basis. His sketches even make the 3D models look even worse!
*Many stages have alternate versions (that are yet unavailable, but they'll probably be on sale later?) AND some of them have no bystanders. Kanzuki Estate by day without anyone is the best stage of the game so far.
*FANG is great to play. Rashid's personality is charming (I wonder if his butler may be added to the game, or if he's just for fluff?). Laura is basically Makoto but not constipated.
*Speaking of, cameo characters (not counting those on posters in backgrounds, or on Rashid's twitter feed) include Oro, Viper, Sean, Sakura, Gouken, and various dolls (as well as Sagat in Shadoloo's alternate background). Probably the blonde boy in Nash's story counts as well? I guess those are the strongest contenders for season 2. Strange that Ibuki, Juri, Guile and Bison appear, but neither Alex nor Urien. I thought he was the one who resurrected Nash?
*The scenarios are all totally stupid and pointless. This is how you write some good Street Fighter!
The bad:
*Laura's alternate costume is an abomination, worse than Cammy's more pandering stuff. At least it will save me some fight money!
[this message was edited by Iggy on Wed 17 Feb 09:29] |
| GekigangerV 1920th Post
PSN: gekijmo
XBL: gekijmo5
Wii: n/a
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(2):For me it was Tuesday" , posted Thu 18 Feb 00:30
I got it yesterday and didn't get a match all day. Apparently they fixed the issue right as I went to bed (server maintenance). I just played story and survival for hours on end. Got a bunch of trophies to pop, but something weird happened with my "complete story mode with all characters" where it didn't pop until I went back and replayed one I had already completed.
Story mode is so weird. There really isn't a narrative, just a bunch of random events. I don't understand why this was considered a better alternative to a more traditional arcade mode with static prologue intro art and ending art. They probably could have saved on Bengus since he would only have to draw the two "cutscenes" per character (intro/ending) instead of before and after every fight.
I know that the proper story mode is coming in a few months, but what we have now is barely serviceable as a prologue. We get a bit of info on F.A.N.G and Nicali, but everything else is so helter skelter.
It is obviously a rushed package to get it out early enough for the Capcom Pro Tour/end of the fiscal year, but the core gameplay is great.
I have noticed some frame drops from time to time. It may be stage related as I saw it on the right side of the Brazil stage when the fruit stand would bounce around, but it was in other stages too.
I will try to play some after work tonight. I just hope there isn't any server maintenance going on.
quote:
My only disappointment so far is that the game is an "always online" thing: you get your Survival playthrough reset if servers have issues or your connection fails? No way!! You should only need connection to play online versus, to get your daily challenge assigned (when Targets mode gets patched into the game) and to buy stuff in the shop. And to download patches of course.
You can technically take it offline for that stuff, but I don't think you will earn any fight money so it is pretty much pointless to do survival/story without being online as you get A LOT of fight money for your first time through story mode and doing a few survival runs. I am close to 200,000 and I think that is enough for two DLC characters. I know you also buy costumes with fight money, but I think I will hold off on that.
But yeah, I was reading stuff yesterday about how people were kicked out of survival because they were also kicked out of the server.
I would hate to be doing the 100 character "Hell" level survival for fight money just to be kicked out near the end.
I hope server issues don't have a deleterious effect on tournaments. Like I hope DLC doesn't have to be validated every so often that it would pop up in the middle of a tournament.
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| Baines 474th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(4):For me it was Tuesday" , posted Thu 18 Feb 04:01
quote:
Oh right, Story Mode earns you Fight Money. Is Fight Money a reward in Survival as well? I remember Capcom said "unlock colors, titles and other stuff", without mentioning Fight Money.
It does.
According to basic calculations from people who can look at numbers without crying from the repressed memories, finishing the story mode and the survival in easy and normal difficulties for all characters should be enough to buy all 6 characters from the first wave if you don't buy anything else. And that would be without even going online.
Which makes me wonder, if that's true, how Capcom is going to get any money out of this all.
Some people aren't going to do all of that, and will just pay money for new characters.
Some people are going to want both the costumes and the characters, which will take rather a bit more Fight Money.
Some costumes will only be available through real money.
Presumably more characters will be added after this first season. That cushion of excess Fight Money earned from the first sixteen characters will eventually be eaten away.
If Capcom is unhappy with the way that people are obtaining new items, then they could just alter prices and/or at what rates Fight Money is obtained.
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| Maou 3077th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):For Capcom it was Doomsday" , posted Fri 19 Feb 01:47
Micky: you may want to double-check language options in Story Mode. For some bizarre reason they are separate from the rest of the game, at least on PC.
Ishmael's post brings up the interesting point on what exactly everyone is reviewing, the robust SFV of the future and the laughably incomplete SFV we have in our hands today. I'm interested in this in two ways: first, as a showcase for exactly how much downloadable updates have changed the view of what's acceptable on release day even in the console world now---the current SFV on a console is unimaginable in past generations.
Second, I'm interested in what this tells us about "review theory." Putting aside the general uselessness of the gaming press, its positive reviews are made possible by a long-term perspective shared by many people here who know they will enjoy SFV when it's complete and who see it's got a great foundation even if the package now is shoddy. This "hypothetical" review structure is made possible by industry knowledge of what's to come, which is pretty strange, though there's reason to expect it will be accurate.
But what about people right now? Users have overwhelmingly focused on this, and across multiple continents it's about two stars out of five. Amazon US, Amazon UK, Amazon Japan, Steam, Metacritic
Do these user reviews matter for the average person? Are people who don't love fighting games ready to buy a hypothetical fighting game? Will Capcom need to hire the guy who turned around the botched FFXIV launch to get non-fans to buy the game?
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Spoon 3247th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):For Capcom it was Doomsday" , posted Fri 19 Feb 06:44
Even if the art direction is disagreeable in places, it is still a top-notch production effort. The characters gameplay-wise are well-designed and distinct from each other (including one of the more obvious differentiations of Ken and Ryu we've ever had), the feeling of the fighting is very good, and the cast size is not small (16 characters). Strictly on terms of its fighting, it is a good game. I don't think anybody can reasonably take that away from it.
That it has less single-player content and features, some of which are valid and useful to beginner players like CPU match, features that were normal for literally more than 15 years, doesn't feel good.
That the game is designed for online multiplayer and the online multiplayer hasn't worked out of the gate is grievously bad, but is a problem that we actually do just have to wait and see on. It might be that we never have problems this bad for the rest of the game's lifespan, which would be forgivable, or it might be that it never settles down for the rest of the game's lifespan, which would be mostly unforgivable.
The SFV that you can't actually play when you want to is a 0/10. The one that you can play but doesn't have the mode you want to play is 5/10. The one that you can play that has the mode you want to play is 8.5/10.
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| nobinobita 1558th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(9):For Capcom it was Doomsday" , posted Fri 19 Feb 12:07
quote:
Even if the art direction is disagreeable in places, it is still a top-notch production effort. The characters gameplay-wise are well-designed and distinct from each other (including one of the more obvious differentiations of Ken and Ryu we've ever had), the feeling of the fighting is very good, and the cast size is not small (16 characters). Strictly on terms of its fighting, it is a good game. I don't think anybody can reasonably take that away from it.
That it has less single-player content and features, some of which are valid and useful to beginner players like CPU match, features that were normal for literally more than 15 years, doesn't feel good.
That the game is designed for online multiplayer and the online multiplayer hasn't worked out of the gate is grievously bad, but is a problem that we actually do just have to wait and see on. It might be that we never have problems this bad for the rest of the game's lifespan, which would be forgivable, or it might be that it never settles down for the rest of the game's lifespan, which would be mostly unforgivable.
The SFV that you can't actually play when you want to is a 0/10. The one that you can play but doesn't have the mode you want to play is 5/10. The one that you can play that has the mode you want to play is 8.5/10.
King of Fighters XII - 57/100 on Metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/the-king-of-fighters-xii
"With 22 fighters, this stands as the worst-attended KOF game to date"
"The core gameplay of King of Fighters XII is quite good, a thing which is quite hard to mess up nowadays. But the total content of the game is seriously dissapointing,"
"not everyone is going to enjoy the pixilated graphics."
"Next time around there better be more stages, characters, modes – more everything. "
Street Fighter V - 88/100 on Metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/street-fighter-v
"Street Fighter V is ambitious. Capcom expects it to last a whole generation and that's why they bet for new content that will be rolling for the next few years."
"Even with the lack of an Arcade mode and temporary server issues, though, Street Fighter V manages to shine."
"Street Fighter 5 is deep, endlessly fun, and immensely inviting, but local competitive play is currently the primary way to enjoy it."
"Despite the incomplete launch, SFV makes some bold moves gameplay-wise, and it really succeeded in evolving the combat system formula."
"awesome graphics" 
HURT ME MORE CAPCOM
www.art-eater.com
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| Iggy 10137th Post
Star Platinum Carpet- S.P.W. Board Master
| "Re(10):For Capcom it was Doomsday" , posted Fri 19 Feb 19:52
Comparing to KOF12 doesn't make sense, though.
Even if you don't trust Capcom into delivering what they promised (and really, you shouldn't: it's a company, it wants you to buy their products and can say anything as long as it tricks you into giving them money. They should only be judged on what they actually delivered, not what they may do in the future), you cannot ignore the fact SF5 is a by-the-book game-as-service, meaning it will evolve (if only by getting a bunch of elements which are already budgeted for, and then, according to the results, either get more, or less with smaller budget, or becoming full free to play for a while, before getting pulled unceremoniously when the steam would have run out). How it will evolve is of course to anyone's guess, but the game will unmistakably grow wider, not narrower.
Compare with KOF12, which really could have been the last of the series. There was no indication on any further plans from SNKP, or even any continuation (and that continuation came with a brand new game to buy anew, not an expansion). Was there even online play in 12? I don't remember.
Also, of course KOF12 looked amazing compared to SF5. There is no disputing that.
But it also played like utter trash. In terms of pure game play, I'd rank it below 2001 and 99, around 94 (and maybe even below, because the silliness of 94 has its charm). SF5, from a pure gameplay perspective, might be my favourite since Zero 2.
Ah, and also, 12 came after 11, which had its share of problems but also a sizable plate of qualities. Those weren't huge shoes to fill, yet 12 failed in almost all regards.
On the other hand, the first thing SF5 did before even getting released it to kill SF4. That alone should balance any negative will the botched launch created.
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| Ishmael 5396th Post
PSN: Ishmael26b
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):For Capcom it was Doomsday" , posted Sat 20 Feb 00:53
I don't envy the people working on SF right now since they probably aren't getting much sleep or have much stomach lining left. That initial blueprint of staggered content and fan-built advertising from the Capcom Pro Tour must have made SF5 look like a perpetual motion machine. Too bad it only works if everything is done on time. Deciding to release or delay SF5 was a no win situation for Capcom but I guess they are hoping they can catch up while somehow sticking to the rest of the schedule. Odds are a lot of this current frustration will be glossed over once some more content is released and a few hype matches get streamed but even then the people making SF5 aren't going to have a chance to rest for a long, long time.
But as for Maou's questions, any review that recommends SF5 based on what is currently available is, in my view, off base. At the moment the game is only for nuts like me who have to play every fighter they see or the fanatics who fly to Las Vegas to play video games. So right now SF5 is a game made for, what, 3,000 people? Trying to sell the game around the idea that you could someday be on stage losing to Infiltration is nice but that's like only selling basketballs to players in the NBA. In it's current state SF5 is not a game I could recommend to anyone. In the future I hope things will be different but for now I would say that prospective buyers should hold off until that day comes. Thing is, I'm not a professional reviewer so no one listens to me.
This leads into Maou's second question about press reviews. In truth, I don't have anything against game reviews but I don't view them as make or break for a game. Instead, I see them as another point of conversation. This continuing discussion often leads to a much better understanding of the game since it involves how people interact with a game instead of focusing on something like the draw distance or how shiny the backgrounds are. Not only does this lead to more viewpoints that enrich the critique of the game but it's probably a more appropriate way to approach the constantly evolving modern game. Perhaps "game reviews" should be replaced with something like "game impressions" or something that shows the opening review is not the final word in what the game might eventually become. As Nobi's faulty apples and oranges comparison demonstrates the old style of reviewing games simply isn't adequate for how games are now released. KoF XII is a fixed point in time while the SF5 of today is already a bit different from the SF5 that was released on Tuesday. In six months the conversation about SF5 could be utterly different from what it is now. I have no idea what that talk could entail but I guess we'll find out in 180 days.
Random Thoughts:
I love that "Our Man Flint" thing F.A.N.G's theme has going on.
The backgrounds are nice.
Now that I've able to get in a few matches I'm a little less frustrated with SF5. The fact that I won most of those matches is even better. If anyone wants to go a few rounds against my questionable Zangief or my two minute F.A.N.G I'll be around.
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| Spoon 3248th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):For Capcom it was Doomsday" , posted Sun 21 Feb 11:37
R.Mika has the single best pro-wrestling thing you can do in any SF game, heck, in any non-wrestling 2D fighter game in recent history that isn't 100% hard scripted (i.e. so not her SFA3 stuff).
Her f/b+MP, f/b+MP chain sees her do a combo where she claps the opponent and then does a hammer throw / irish whip. Now, the 100% scripted behaviour part is that the opponent does a special forced run animation, and if they hit the screen edge (NOT THE ARENA EDGE!), they bounce off it and turn around and do another scripted run. Both of those scripted runs have a maximum distance, after which the character just stumbles over and falls.
So you really, really want them to hit the screen edge, because it sets up combos.
So what you do is that if you land it right in the middle of the arena, you backdash to pull the screen edge closer to them and make them bounce off it. But since you've backdashed, you're now quite far away, so you have to use a move that will get you to them in time before they stumble and fall. So you can do a Shooting Peach or charged st.RH dropkick. If you do a Shooting Peach, you create for yourself the experience of doing an Irish whip, having the opponent bounce of the ropes, you back up and bounce yourself off the opposite ropes, and do a flying attack on them as they rebound towards you. It is sublime. My only regret is that she doesn't have a genuine singular clothesline move for this. Her Hogan-style punch rush ending done by EX Shooting Peach just isn't quite right.
The way that the shoto cr.HP has unique recoil animation on hit against grounded opponents is a relative novelty in the SF world. While Nobi and co. will often talk about the importance of follow-through on an attack animation, there are few instances which portray the weight of the victim upon the attack such that the force transfer prevents the attack from fully completing its normal motion.
Ken's 3S-esque st.MP st.HP chain causing a knockdown feels weird to me after 3847574256387824 hours of 3S. Ryu has absolutely monster damage just by doing j.HP st.MP cr.HP xx DP+HP xx super. It's like 500 damage. In fact, among simple BnB combos, Ryu seems to be a little on the higher end this game, which is a novel position for him to be in. I like that SF4 took a cue from CvS2 in that everybody has a lot of normal link combo options, including characters like Ryu, such that in SF4 Ryu felt like he was a character with more combo options than just normal xx fireball. Having so much combo damage on Ryu with just basic stuff... that's a whole nother story, though.
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| Micky Kusanagi
48th Post
PSN: n/a
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Rare Customer
| "Re(3):Re(10):For Capcom it was Doomsday" , posted Sun 21 Feb 18:47:
quote:
The backgrounds are nice.
I had such a good laugh at this thing...and I wonder whether the amount of stuff you normally don't get to see in stages is secretly the cause for SFV's rushed launch LOL.
quote:
Mika's pro wrestling awesomeness
That single-handedly makes me wanna try Mika as much as I can when I get my copy. For some reason, Alex is the only "wrestling type" character I've ever managed to have some fun with in a fighting game, because I felt him a little bit faster, more dynamic than the majority of wrestlers. How Mika could fall off my radar in the Zero 3 days is completely beyond me.
A character I had already set my eyes on during the beta is Karin. Besides my preference for fire users, I tend to like rushdown heavy characters practicing an Asian martial art -real or fictional- with no elemental powers nor projectiles, to the point they easily become my second/third favorite character in a fighting game.
EDIT: sorry for nitpicking, but this one irritated me quite a bit. One of the sites I regularly visit to get my fighting game news fix spoilered that in SFV
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Necro sends Rashid a message
End of Spoiler
. Right in the article title. What about people who couldn't get the game day one for one reason or another? I know this story bit isn't necessarily an indication of something important in the big picture of the plot, but still, I'd like to get some kind of spoiler warning. During my first hands-on at the store, I was undecided for a moment between picking that character's story and Laura's...I wish I didn't give in my weakness for Latinas xD
Ore no...kachi da!!
[this message was edited by Micky Kusanagi on Mon 22 Feb 05:02] |
| Doshin
96th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(7):Re(10):For Capcom it was Doomsday" , posted Tue 23 Feb 00:26
quote:
Karin's totally-not-hooligan-throw
This is what I don't understand. She can do it out of her RessenHa but there really is no point to doing it unless you think your opponent had a mental lapse enough to just stand up and do nothing, because as you've noted, there isn't any reason to not crouch to avoid it since the only other followup option is a sweep. I don't know what Capcom was thinking, but it needs to be a truer block string, at least when canceled into either of those followups. At the same time, not following it up shouldn't go to > or = 0 frame advantage for Karin or she'd just be nuts in the offensive, and same idea for the GurenKen and its followups, too. Also, there should be some reason to actually stand up and block after a RessenHa, or they should just change the properties of NotHooligan.
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| Spoon 3252th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):woeful sanity, nothing but monsters her" , posted Tue 23 Feb 18:27
New biggest Karin combo:
j.HP, d.HP xx V-Trigger, d.HP xx QCF+KKK~P, QCF+P->d.P->d.P xx super
Does 556 damage.
SFA3 Karin was possibly too complete in having both a counter and a command grab as well as the SFA3 universal airthrow, but having none of those in SFV but having more moves that move her forward makes Karin a possibly more gimmicky rushdown character. Her standing and crouching MK are... surprisingly crappy, in that they trade in situations you don't expect them to, and her crouching one is surprisingly disadvantageous on block: if done perfectly meaty, d.MK is -2, and is usually -4. She has exactly one special move that naturally advantageous on block, which is the first d.P follow up to her V-Trigger rekka. Her QCF+K->d.P not-Yun-shoulder-ram can go through projectiles and is safe or even advantageous on block, but the general lesson with Karin is that if you ever block a special move of hers that isn't those, you should really respond by crouching and mashing jab.
Meanwhile, R.Mika is ironically possibly LESS gimmicky than Karin, even though she actually is a pro wrestler and pro wrestlers must have a gimmicky. R.Mika's body splash is hella gimmicky, but sadly does not reach the current most interesting 2D fighting game body splash out there, Kanae's body splash from Akatsuki Blitzkampf. People should steal more things from that game, seriously.
Zangief having a wrestling buddy from back in the day, Azam, is actually an interesting story point. Laura's story mode features Brazillian BBQ, which is totally awesome. I like to imagine that in some distant past storyline when Gief and Azam were wrestling versions of Ken and Ryu, their Gouken was the Great Gama (and Capcom somehow uses that as an excuse to bring back SFEX characters).
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| Just a Person 1723th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(7):Re(10):For Capcom it was Doomsday" , posted Fri 26 Feb 03:25
quote:
By the way, I might have missed it but I assume nothing was announced for a potential arcade version of SF5 at JAEPO ?
Taito's booth ad Jaepo was an unfortunate disappointment: I was hoping there'd be at least some sort of hint to a TypeX4, but absolutely nothing. So at least for the next year, I strongly doubt that SF5 will make its way to the arcades.
Also, this probably means there's going to be no next-gen arcade board until 2017 at the earliest; publishers will have to continue using 720P boards like how GGXrd is doing.
On a competely different note, so Street Fighter V's launch week sales in Japan was 46K which is scary for such a major title. Its sales was practically the same as Ultra SF4. The PSVita port of Kantai Collection sold about 3 times as much on the same week, and it's more or less a slapped on project.
The packaging of SFV is queer-- it says the game features "a rich story mode, and also a tutorial mode that so that beginners have nothing to worry about" ...holy.
Ouch, that's terrible! I would expect that even KOF XIV's sales could surpass that number... I hope this doesn't mean that SFV is doomed - but if it is, oh well, maybe Capcom will learn that it's a terrible idea to rush a product the way they did.
It's not even a matter of content, but of whether this content is working properly. I mean, Killer Instinct was launched with even less characters and it also didn't have an Arcade Mode at first - but what little content they did deliver was working well enough.
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Spoon 3257th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):For Capcom it was Doomsda" , posted Sat 27 Feb 10:26
quote:
I think the challenge mode is supposed to be rather tutorial-ish, but we'll see. If it is then it's too bad they had to release the game before that was ready.
I'm not a fan of the modern overlarge tutorials to be honest. A lot of them like Xrd and KI are just bloated beyond recognition by edge cases and baffling situations that you wouldn't even know unless you had experience with the game to begin with. The excuse that they help new players is just smoke; they're more commonly used as an exercise for experienced players to outline those few degrees of difference from what they've been used to. Rather than attracting new players I think tutorials like these turn them away and create an illusion of difficulty.
The very start of the Xrd tutorial is ok, but I agree once it goes into safe jumps that's waaaaay too deep for raw new players. Having "advanced tutorials" that make you aware of deeper possibilities that do exist and things you can do about them is all well and good, but that's pretty far removed from just getting people to terms with the game.
Just coming to grips with "there are all these chain combos, and if you don't chain to a special move you don't know about or can't execute reliably or a particular other normal, you will be hit back" is hard enough for a raw beginner to fighting games.
I'm flabbergasted that no tutorial is out there that tells players different ways to get out of cross-up situations that they don't have to block. Walking forward/forward dashing under isn't an option that immediately comes to mind to a lot of newer players, but many aren't aware that normal movement is a way through or around attacks.
It would be really interesting if you could review replays of your own games, and at moments when the opponent hurts you, or puts you in the corner, the replay would highlight it and slow it down, and show you the inputs and attack properties. So you could see things like "ah, this unfamiliar move needs to be blocked high" or "oh, no button I press will get me out of there" or "oh, this move I use isn't actually safe on block", or even "you got hit by a lot of crossups that led to big combos, so you need to work on defending yourself from those".
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| Spoon 3260th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):For Capcom it was Doomsda" , posted Sun 28 Feb 08:04:
quote:
Just out of curiousity, aside from walking/dashing, low profiling and DPing, what other universal ways are there to get out of them? I'm in the midst of making a beginner's tutorial.
DP'ing isn't universal, but the others you've pretty much got, as far as I know in SFV. Forward-moving moves can also be used to get out of non-meaty cross-up situations. If this were KOF, for instance, rolling forwards might be an option, but this is SFV.
In SFV, a thing to notice is that a goodly number of characters have the ability to link standing strong into many others normals, usually including another standing strong or a crouching strong. The mentality really seems to be that MP is the combo button, as opposed to LP and LK. So for these characters, it seems like common theme is "the pushback of two MPs exceeds the reach of MK". This is true for Ryu, Ken, Karin, R.Mika, Dictator... The thing about this is that for a number of characters, this puts them at about the right distance to try for a cross-up jump-in. Now, this isn't like a situation where the other guy has been knocked down or reset, but it is soon enough and close enough and coming off of enough frame disadvantage that your regular AA normals still might not work well. But unlike a knockdown or reset situation, you have plenty of time to move. You have plenty of time to dash under. Some characters can use moves with a lot of horizontal movement, like Karin's QCF+K, to create more distance if they wish. You can scoop up lots of easy wins against players unfamiliar with how to get out of this situation by just continually doing a cross-up jump in that goes into a hit confirmable MP string because if the string is blocked, you're at about the right distance to try for another cross-up, and if it hits, you go into a knockdown/reset combo that sets up another such jump-in.
Walking forward into an enemy attack is something that feels weird to consciously do for newer players. In 3S, you'll notice that a really excellent anti-air option, in a game where anti-airing is a decision that often requires a lot of mental gymnastics, for the characters that have it is to dash/walk under. One of Makoto's best anti-airs is to just dash under. Dudley can do Ducking Under, but he can also super cancel it if he wants. Yang can just walk under sloppy jump ins because of his fast walk speed. Hugo, however, can't really do any of these.
In the world of SF, most characters also have relatively limited ability to combo off of anti-air hits. This is less true in anime fighting games like GG or French Bread fighters, where being able to juggle an enemy is the usual expectation, and NOT being able to juggle the enemy is the exceptional case. So in SF, if you successfully walk under a jump attack, you usually get rewarded with a much larger punishment opportunity. Even taking into account the ability to juggle from Crush Counter anti-airs, being able to land a full BnB combo is huge.
You can see Sako go for this against Daigo here. Daigo jumps against Sako at medium range in neutral using j.MK with the intention of connecting a crossup, and Sako just keeps walking forward and does a d.MP. I don't know if tripguard is a thing or not in SFV. A little while later in the same set, Daigo tries for another cross-up in neutral, which Sako attempts to AA with d.HP.
The sequence of play on the second moment is that Sako closes the distance with a shoulder (a move which is safe on block and has safety ranging from -2F to +2F), which Daigo blocks and does as everybody should do against Karin after blocking a non-Guren special and mashes crouching jab. Sako does a standing MP which whiffs, which means he's exactly at cross-up jumpin range, which you can see Daigo recognizes because he immediately jumps forward to capitalize on the recovery that Sako has as well as the perfect spacing. Daigo does NOT counter by pressing d.MK or d.HK, which is what most people including myself probably would on reflex.
But this time, Sako decides to try countering the cross-up with Karin's standing HP, which hits on both sides of her. It fails, likely because Sako doesn't have the specific SFV knowledge of whether or not that would work; he just tries it because it seems like a thing that should work. No harm done, though, because Daigo does a raw QCB+K (?!?!?!) which goes right over Karin (and which Sako tries to hit by pressing d.HP, again, because it seems like a thing that should work, but it misses because Sako got the timing wrong, or maybe he thought about it and didn't commit to it until it was too late, or maybe he thought d.HP would move her more forwards, or....). There are a lot of little things in that set which you can see Sako trying out (note the multitude of times Sako tries to anti-air with d.HP and standing HP and fails, even though the timing seems good superficially), and you can also see little things which indicate Daigo knows something that Sako doesn't. Daigo always crouching jabs shoulders he blocks that are close, and doesn't crouching jab the blocked shoulder that is distant, whereas Sako doesn't press as hard as he could on those blocked distant shoulders because he likely doesn't know that he has advantage or is uncertain of the advantage.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Sun 28 Feb 09:26] |
| chazumaru 1642th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Settei Fighter V" , posted Sun 28 Feb 12:35:
My PS4 just arrived, and some friends at Capcom very kindly sent me a copy of SF5's eCapcom limited edition. I need a few more days for high speed Internet, a TV and a PS4-compatible arcade stick to join the new flat, and Chun-Li's Police Story costume is not available yet anyway so the game is currently worthless, but meanwhile, there is something important to address which I have not seen reported anywhere (maybe I missed it).
I think everyone here is aware of the "Visionary" artbook that came with the (Japanese) eCapcom edition, as some scans/photos appeared on Twitter and message boards soon after the release of the game, showing researches for the returning characters' new designs and costumes, as well as researches on other potential but ultimately scrapped new characters. It's indeed a fantastic book, especially for something thrown into a limited edition. It was even printed properly! To contrast, I just bought the Bloodborne artbook for a hefty price and while it's a great testament to From's skill at transposing excellent artwork reference in a real-time 3D environment, it has less interesting research and development stuff inside than this complementary SF5 artbook.
Here is what I have not seen mentioned anywhere on Western blogs and should interest the MMC very much: there is a new character relationships/connections chart inside! Sorry no scanner here at the moment so you'll have to cope with a crude collage of two low-def pictures. I find quite interesting that neither Alex nor Urien are mentioned although we already know they will soon appear in the game. It's not a SF3 problem: Ibuki and Elena are mentioned in the schoolgirls instagram posse on the top left, Oro is part of the Curry loving club and directly tied as an acquaintance of Dhalsim AND challenged to a fight by Karin (uh?), and Sean is of course closely tied to Laura.
Everybody in Dic's crew hate each other, Sagat is officially out of the group as we already knew, and CAPTAIN SAWADA GETS A MENTION! I was wondering the other day if Capcom erased him from the cannon to avoid a potentially blurry copyright situation. Maybe Capcom USA would disagree with that mention, actually.
Même Narumi est épatée !
[this message was edited by chazumaru on Sun 28 Feb 12:37] |
| Iggy 10151th Post
Star Platinum Carpet- S.P.W. Board Master
| "Re(3):Settei Fighter V" , posted Sun 28 Feb 21:47:
Chaz, you rock! So, Gouken is officially alive and well, now? And why is there a question mark at Dic "killing Chunli's father"? Will they bring him back from the dead as well? At least Dan's dad is still dead.
The Oro things are stuff that happen in the scenario mode of SF5, and the fact he appears in two scenarios strongly hints that he'll be in the next set of characters (I'd be curious to know how he'd translate, though). He's my current highest bet for batch 2 along with Ed.
The fact Alex and Urien are out of the picture is also interesting, since they are also the only characters out of the first batch to NOT appear in the scenario mode (while it has Oro, Sakura, the dolls, Viper, and it even spoils Juri's new costume).
Could it be that Oro was considered in the first batch, but got swapped with Urien at a later stage? That wouldn't make much sense, but then, many things don't in this game. Contrary to everyone's expectation, Nash was also seemingly resurrected by a russian-looking girl called Helen instead of Urien. Maybe she's Urien's own private Corin?
WTF at Dan, Honda and Hakan in a 'roud-the-world gourmet trip. And I'm crying at Hawk not having any link with anyone (not even Juli/Julia) except "he's one of those big grappler types".
They also left Poison out, surprisingly.
It's almost march and we haven't seen any image of Alex yet. Should I start to be worried?
[this message was edited by Iggy on Sun 28 Feb 21:52] |
| Micky Kusanagi
62th Post
PSN: n/a
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Wii: n/a
Occasional Customer
| "Re(1):Settei Fighter V" , posted Mon 29 Feb 05:47:
Thank you Chaz!! I saved your chart photos right away ^^ Now I'm really curious about the "killing Chun Li's father?" thing. While playing her story in SFV, after Balrog states her kicks are like her father's, I actually thought "I'd like to see her father in action...", only to feel guilty for desiring the nth head bodyswap character in SF xD Now imagine if Capcom is retconning his death, and both him and Ed are DLC chars in 2017...EX versions of Chun Li and Vegamoto respectively? As much as I'd like to see them in the roster next year, it's not a great idea after all ^^;
Let's try to shake off the shame of thinking such nonsense about SFV roster additions. Tomorrow or Tuesday could be the day I go Plus, after playing story and survival only for a week (I tried to clear as much characters as I could for fight money cause I'm afraid Capcom could patch the survival AI in March, it looks quite dumb on Normal once you figure its flaws out). Anyway, you'll know because I'll add my PSN nickname to my MMCafe profile. I'm not that much of a challenge, but I still look forward to have some matches with you guys ^^
Ore no...kachi da!!
[this message was edited by Micky Kusanagi on Mon 29 Feb 17:36] |
| Professor 4789th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(3):Settei Fighter V" , posted Thu 3 Mar 00:23:
quote:
A bit off-topic, Hori's Real Arcade Pro no longer uses arcade-standard parts and it's been giving me problems since SFV's beta period, particularly when I'm trying to use Chunli. I recently got a new stick lever so I've tried swapping parts... I'll probably write a quick review on it later.
Don't you like Hori's Hayabusa joystick? I love it, but I personally experienced how getting diagonals consistently takes some adjusting, which can get frustrating. What lever did you buy? The new Seimitsu one revealed at JAEPO?
Back to SFV, Ayano was vague and a tease in a recent interview when asked if DLC chars are gonna get their own trials when trial mode is added to the game...is Capcom so slow to learn SFV's fatal flaw is the lack of single player content and taking the BlazBlue approach for DLC chars -did I remember well that Makoto, Valkenhayn and Platinum even didn't have arcade mode in the first Continuum Shift?- only makes things worse? And that's coming from someone who's genuinely enjoying SFV even in its current barebones state...
Yes the Hayabusa stick. There's actually two models and I have the older one; the new model was released just in December so I don't know much about it.
Personally, the Hayabusa stick is light on my arm so it felt really good in the beginning. It actually made my diagonals easier, especially compared to the standard sanwa stick that Hori used in their past products. However the Hayabusa stick recognizes diagonal inputs a bit too much when held in wine-glass style, so when I do a  , it actually inputs as  .
It's not a problem for KOF13 since the input actually helps in various situations, but in SFV, this causes a problem where Chunli ends up doing a spinning bird kick instead of lightning legs from crouching position-- the game is really, really lenient on special move inputs. There's also another problem: the stick's spring is so light that if you hold on to a direction with the stick and let go, it'll sometimes bounce to the other direction. So for example if you hold down and then let go, it'll make the character jump.
And yes, I have the new stick from Seimitsu. I'm surprised you know about it, considering that Seimitsu is sort of shadowed by other manufacturers.
Btw, I just realized that for costumes, the in-game fight money can only be used to unlock the stuff from story-mode; they can't unlock the other DLC costumes like beard Ryu and sexy Chunli.
[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 3 Mar 00:36] |
| Baines 478th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(1):SFV Stat look up website" , posted Thu 3 Mar 05:00
quote:
Also, Hard and Hell survival are so frustrating. The monotony of it is just not engaging.
Capcom has managed to create perhaps the worst survival mode that I can recall for a fighting game, and that is a pretty low bar to crawl under considering how bad survival modes are in general.
Even Normal is horribly overlong and monotonous. You face 30 rounds, where only the last 5-10 rounds matter. The first 20-25 rounds are just there to act as time sinks.
I failed my first attempt at Normal difficulty entirely because I became so bored during the run. I expected it to end at round 12 (two more than Easy), then 15 (5 more than Easy), then 16 (the number of playable characters), then 20 (10 more than Easy), and it just kept going with no end in sight. When I saw that it was going past 25, I didn't even care anymore.
I just don't see why they didn't make it 10-20 rounds for every difficulty (with no repeated match-ups, at least not once enough DLC characters release), with the difficulty selecting instead just setting the starting AI difficulty.
With the current set up, the game pretty much needs an option to save progress (where the save is deleted upon loading.) It also pretty much needs an option to spend score to pay for continues upon losing. As currently designed, the mode is just horribly unfair. Success depends too much on whether the game offers sufficient healing.
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sword in hand
"Re(9):SFV: I wanna take you for a ride editio" , posted Sat 30 Jan 06:15
"New Trailer" , posted Tue 9 Feb 01:53:
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Canceling Neogaf into a Reddit link combo was bound to inflict serious user damage. 
