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Ishmael
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"Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Sun 20 Sep 01:34post reply

Fine, I'll be the one to get the new thread going.

This isn't exactly about fighting games but it shows that the fighting game genre -and civilization itself- may soon be over. DoAX3 will come with PlayStation VR support.






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Loona
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"Re(1):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Mon 21 Sep 17:41post reply

quote:
This isn't exactly about fighting games but it shows that the fighting game genre -and civilization itself- may soon be over. DoAX3 will come with PlayStation VR support.



I'm not surprised that Mila was left out of the cast, since she's plenty neglected in the DoA5 updates as it is, but no Tina here is a big surprise.
If this allows for a clearer separation of aesthetics between the actual fighting games and these spin-offs, maybe at one point DoA can go back to the more respectable direction it was attempting early on in DoA5's life...





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"Re(2):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Mon 21 Sep 22:51post reply

quote:
If this allows for a clearer separation of aesthetics between the actual fighting games and these spin-offs, maybe at one point DoA can go back to the more respectable direction it was attempting early on in DoA5's life...



But didn't Koei Tecmo abandon that path for DOA5 because it simply didn't sell as well as pandering?

DOA is in a position similar to Nintendo, where its image is a self-sustaining cycle. People won't take DOA seriously because it is a "mindless rock-paper-scissors button mashing T&A game". It doesn't matter if Temco tries to make DOA more respectable. It doesn't matter if the image is actually wrong. People aren't going to give it a chance. So Tecmo goes the T&A route to make money, which reinforces the whole image that DOA is a trash won't take DOA seriously because it is a "mindless rock-paper-scissors button mashing T&A game".

(The Nintendo comparison being that Nintendo's "kiddie console that people only buy Nintendo games for" is self-sustaining.)





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"Re(2):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Mon 21 Sep 23:44post reply

quote:
I'm not surprised that Mila was left out of the cast, since she's plenty neglected in the DoA5 updates as it is, but no Tina here is a big surprise.
I'm somewhat sad that Tina was left out since she's my favorite, but then again, those things never really had much in the way of gameplay so it's not really that big of a loss.





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"Re(3):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Tue 22 Sep 06:43post reply

quote:
If this allows for a clearer separation of aesthetics between the actual fighting games and these spin-offs, maybe at one point DoA can go back to the more respectable direction it was attempting early on in DoA5's life...


But didn't Koei Tecmo abandon that path for DOA5 because it simply didn't sell as well as pandering?

DOA is in a position similar to Nintendo, where its image is a self-sustaining cycle. People won't take DOA seriously because it is a "mindless rock-paper-scissors button mashing T&A game". It doesn't matter if Temco tries to make DOA more respectable. It doesn't matter if the image is actually wrong. People aren't going to give it a chance. So Tecmo goes the T&A route to make money, which reinforces the whole image that DOA is a trash won't take DOA seriously because it is a "mindless rock-paper-scissors button mashing T&A game".

(The Nintendo comparison being that Nintendo's "kiddie console that people only buy Nintendo games for" is self-sustaining.)



I really enjoyed DOA2 when I was in school, really fun, quick matches where terrain/walls/etc. is a factor.

I could not get into DOA5 no matter how hard I tried. I don't feel that it's a bad game, but it just lacks something for me. Is it the feeling that the game is pandering rather than just having fun?

I also can't help but think "this is a budget game, or a fan game, or some technically solid but somehow lesser than 'professional' game" when I look at it.

It's not that it looks bad... but there's something that bothers me. Let me try to describe it.... I kind of feel like the characters are really "characters" during their intros and victory celebrations, but when they're fighting they just seem like "character models." Maybe the visuals are too realistic in some ways and not realistic enough in others (not talking about bounce here at all, just to be clear).

I dunno. I do kind of feel like I'm done with the series somehow but I don't wish them ill.





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"Re(4):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Wed 23 Sep 05:34post reply

quote:
I really enjoyed DOA2 when I was in school, really fun, quick matches where terrain/walls/etc. is a factor.

I could not get into DOA5 no matter how hard I tried. I don't feel that it's a bad game, but it just lacks something for me. Is it the feeling that the game is pandering rather than just having fun?


I wonder if that's the impression a lot of people are left with? I fell off from the series with 3-4 and picked up 5 on a whim when I worked at a store where I could get full refunds on games and was surprised to really like it. This has held up through Last Round. I don't really see it as a "return to form" so much as it being better than the series has ever been, really.

I'm probably desensitized to the amount of pandering that's actually going on considering the absolute irredeemable garbage games I play elsewhere, but I tend to find DOA5's variety of it as opt-in- you can still get the "bathing suits" made of string and costume jewelry, but you'll be paying for them! And for what it's worth, my favorite item of DLC has actually been Mila from the first casual set- that hat and coat are top notch.

Plus everyone knows Eliot is the cutest girl in the game. Let's be serious here.





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"Fighting Game Thread 10: All Recycled (-1)" , posted Wed 23 Sep 05:42post reply

Also, I finally found my Capcom Fighting Evolution/Jam disc for PS2 and I sat down with it for a few nights in the last week and... it's a lot more interesting than the joke game I initially wrote it off as. I've been mining ancient SRK threads and GameFAQs stuff for info and I feel compelled to stick with it for a little while. Wish I could tell you why, and more than anything I wish I still had roommates who'd help me test out wacky nonsense in fighting games, but you may find you want to dust your copy off too, or pick one up for whatever change is in your pocket if you've never tried it out!





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"Re(1):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Wed 23 Sep 06:05post reply

Cuter?

Does that mean moe?





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"Re(1):Fighting Game Thread 10: All Recycled (" , posted Wed 23 Sep 07:29post reply

quote:
Also, I finally found my Capcom Fighting Evolution/Jam disc for PS2 and I sat down with it for a few nights in the last week and... it's a lot more interesting than the joke game I initially wrote it off as. I've been mining ancient SRK threads and GameFAQs stuff for info and I feel compelled to stick with it for a little while. Wish I could tell you why, and more than anything I wish I still had roommates who'd help me test out wacky nonsense in fighting games, but you may find you want to dust your copy off too, or pick one up for whatever change is in your pocket if you've never tried it out!



I've never NOT liked it, really! I've heard that from a serious fighting game player perspective it's considered all sorts of broken, but I've always enjoyed it, if for no other reason than the serious love Warzard gets. The backgrounds are for me the very weakest piece in an otherwise fun to play game. In fact, my copy's sitting right here next to me at my desk by coincidence!

As for Dead or Alive, I've disliked the aesthetic of the game from day one, despite having had quite a bit of fun with 1 and 2. From 3 onward it's not so much that it's gotten worse in my opinion, it's just gotten closer and closer to the wax dummy look and feel for the characters that was only a far off dream back in the PS1/Saturn days. It's just not appealing to me at all. Again, I can't comment on how it's held up in terms of gameplay since I'm far from a serious fighting game contender.





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"Re(2):Fighting Game Thread 10: All Recycled (" , posted Wed 23 Sep 21:27:post reply

quote:
Also, I finally found my Capcom Fighting Evolution/Jam disc for PS2 and I sat down with it for a few nights in the last week and... it's a lot more interesting than the joke game I initially wrote it off as. I've been mining ancient SRK threads and GameFAQs stuff for info and I feel compelled to stick with it for a little while. Wish I could tell you why, and more than anything I wish I still had roommates who'd help me test out wacky nonsense in fighting games, but you may find you want to dust your copy off too, or pick one up for whatever change is in your pocket if you've never tried it out!


I've never NOT liked it, really! I've heard that from a serious fighting game player perspective it's considered all sorts of broken, but I've always enjoyed it, if for no other reason than the serious love Warzard gets. The backgrounds are for me the very weakest piece in an otherwise fun to play game. In fact, my copy's sitting right here next to me at my desk by coincidence!


I played the heck out of this game when I was in college! I'd always pick Hauser while one of my best friends would pick Jedah. It was not a good matchup for me lol, but it was FUN! The way the Warzard characters could level up and do counters was really excellent!

I think at some point I might have been a top ranked Hauser player by default because I entered a Capcom Fighting Jam tourney on a lark and I was the only person who picked Hauser. Justin Wong was there too! My buddy Gammon got one round on him in a Karin vs Karin battle.

Ah memories. There were so many questionable things about Capcom Fighting Jam (weird backgrounds, not balanced at all, seriously they just cut and pasted a lot of existing character art into some of the backgrounds!) but I had fun with it.






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Wed 23 Sep 21:32]

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"Re(3):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Wed 23 Sep 23:06:post reply

quote:
I'm somewhat sad that Tina was left out since she's my favorite, but then again, those things never really had much in the way of gameplay so it's not really that big of a loss.



It's a big surprise, indeed; I always thought that Tina's body figure (blonde, tanned, with lots of curves) would be more popular with the Western audience (which was also allowed to pick which girls they wanted in this game, right?). Same for Christie.

---

quote:
Ah memories. There were so many questionable things about Capcom Fighting Jam (weird backgrounds, not balanced at all, seriously they just cut and pasted a lot of existing character art into some of the backgrounds!) but I had fun with it.


Not to mention the clear difference in the quality of the sprites of the characters, ranging from the smooth animation for SFIII and Warzard characters, to the acceptable quality of Ingrid and the people originally remodeled for the CvS crossovers, to everyone else (especially the Darkstalkers characters)...

Although, if I remember correctly, all of them had considerable cuts in their animation frames, so I guess the SFIII/Warzard characters weren't as smooth in CFE after all.





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[this message was edited by Just a Person on Wed 23 Sep 23:08]

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"Re(2):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Thu 24 Sep 02:36post reply

This post is all about the pretty people found in fighting games. What a strange, unexpected theme.

quote:
Cuter?

Does that mean moe?


I'm not surprised that Capcom is still fiddling with the character models, especially since Cammy didn't look finished in her debut footage. One comment I see again and again in Capcom art books is that the illustrators always worry about how the female character art turns out since they know those pictures will receive closer scrutiny. The people working on the games probably feel the same pressure. Oh well, as long as Chun-Li doesn't go back to being hunched over and breathing through her mouth like her SF2 sprite I'm certain the XX chromosome characters will look fine.

Speaking of girls, I was surprised by how much I liked DoA5:LR since it was a game I picked up on a lark. LR is, to be fair, back to straddling that line between silly and sleazy that DoA has often danced along. Vanilla DoA5 tried to reign things in to such a degree that Bayman's neon beret was no longer his default outfit. LR ditches any hint of respectability and goes straight for the bunny outfits. But in spite -or, perhaps, because- of that go-for-it attitude it also feels quite energetic. A good chunk of the cast are either teleporting or flying through the air during fights which is a nice change of pace for a 3D fighter. It's the sort of game where a character as silly as Nyotengu can be featured and even gain a following. I don't know if DoA5 will ever be the tournament worthy title the developers have hoped for but it's certainly fun in its own way.

As for CFJ, it was a game that always felt like it wasn't terrible but needed something to get it up to the next level. It felt like there were decent ideas at the core of CFJ that didn't fully come together. Or were all those good ideas lifted from the games that the character sprites originally came from? I don't know, but I do wish there had been a sequel with an actual budget since something interesting might have been patched together. At least the developers of CFJ knew that sex sells and gave poster boy Zangief a new head.





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"Re(3):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Thu 24 Sep 07:58post reply

There are a lot of little visual things in CFJ I like. There are some really cool super flashes in the game, Gief's new head, the very existence of Warzard characters, etc.

I think I would've liked the game more if the people that I played fighting games with a lot at the time weren't into other games, or if we weren't coming off of lots of time put into certain other games. The competitive balance problems probably wouldn't have been much of an issue since none of us were really invested in the game. By the time we really wanted something new, Hokuto No Ken was out (aka BEST GAME EVER), and that took over... at least for awhile.

YURIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The weird sprite resolution and absence of animation frames on some of the characters was unfortunate, though.





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"Re(4):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Thu 24 Sep 08:38post reply

I couldn't, and still can't defend CFJ.
For a game all about recycled assets regardless of animation, palette, or even resolution to the point it's painful to look at (and let's not get started with the backgrounds, they look worse than KOF 2002's), the package is miserable. Up until release, I was sure they would double the amount of characters for the consumer version. It wasn't possible the game was just that. It couldn't be it, could it?

It was a crossover, supposedly to make up for the failure of CFAS (and salvage Ono's job, so in the end it was worth it), with a balance almost as bad as MvC2, and so far the only real "Capcom vs Capcom" fighting game we ever had... I hated the Marvel side of MvC, I wanted the same game with the lame super heroes replaced by Capcom's, and instead I got... this. Even with the limited roster, there is plenty wrong with it.
Why so many Street Fighters instead of some of the characters from the broader Capcom universe, such as Strider (who was part of CFAS)? Why not save Ruby Heart? WHY YUN?

It could have been so much more. The obviously ridiculous budget (for a game sold full price) felt almost insulting. It salvaged Ingrid while dooming the other two characters (D.D. and... Luke???), while giving her an absolutely terrible song that prevented me from even getting close to her stage (at least Sakura's song was bearable).
Finally, the system of changing character between rounds at will was stupid and only added massive amounts of random as a way to patch out the terribly balanced matchup.

I can't find anything positive to say about it, sorry. Ah, yes: "Capcom Fighting Evolution" was an hilariously fitting title.

I still hope someone is talking with 8ing to reuse the Capcom cast from UMvC3 and make a Capcom-only crossover. The dream doesn't die!





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"Re(5):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Thu 24 Sep 13:24post reply

quote:
I couldn't, and still can't defend CFJ.
For a game all about recycled assets regardless of animation, palette, or even resolution to the point it's painful to look at (and let's not get started with the backgrounds, they look worse than KOF 2002's), the package is miserable. Up until release, I was sure they would double the amount of characters for the consumer version. It wasn't possible the game was just that. It couldn't be it, could it?

It was a crossover, supposedly to make up for the failure of CFAS (and salvage Ono's job, so in the end it was worth it), with a balance almost as bad as MvC2, and so far the only real "Capcom vs Capcom" fighting game we ever had... I hated the Marvel side of MvC, I wanted the same game with the lame super heroes replaced by Capcom's, and instead I got... this. Even with the limited roster, there is plenty wrong with it.
Why so many Street Fighters instead of some of the characters from the broader Capcom universe, such as Strider (who was part of CFAS)? Why not save Ruby Heart? WHY YUN?

It could have been so much more. The obviously ridiculous budget (for a game sold full price) felt almost insulting. It salvaged Ingrid while dooming the other two characters (D.D. and... Luke???), while giving her an absolutely terrible song that prevented me from even getting close to her stage (at least Sakura's song was bearable).
Finally, the system of changing character between rounds at will was stupid and only added massive amounts of random as

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


I should note that my friends and I were never under any illusion that Capcom Fighting Jam/Evolution was a "good" game. It was basically an official MUGEN game with all the incongruous graphics and broken gameplay, but without the benefit of a huge roster. It was such an obvious lazy, rushed cash grab.

But it had Hauzer. Put Hauzer into any game and I will have fun.

Seriously, look at how great he is!
http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/hauzer-a.html

On a serious note, the way they did his anatomy is masterful. I showed Hauzer to a professor of mine who was a leading dinosaur reconstructionist and he thought he was great. He was really impressed with the artistry and anatomical accuracy in Capcom games in general.






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"Re(6):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Thu 24 Sep 18:13post reply

I agree, Hauzer is magnificent.
The little wings on his back! Only the Capcom of the old could have thought of that.

I am still very impressed by the way monsters move in MH. You would think that focusing on having believable anatomy and animations for the monsters in a hunting game would be the absolute main thing the developer would focus on, but looking at other games, it's not.





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"Re(4):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Thu 24 Sep 18:30post reply

quote:
It's a big surprise, indeed; I always thought that Tina's body figure (blonde, tanned, with lots of curves) would be more popular with the Western audience (which was also allowed to pick which girls they wanted in this game, right?). Same for Christie.



Maybe Christie just came off as mocking the kind of audience the DoAX games are likely to get, so they figured she'd be best left out of the fantasy those spin-offs represent.
Not quite Bayonetta levels of "I don't think you can handle this, boy", but she's about as close as DoA gets to it.


I never really got to play CFJ, although the concept certainly holds more appeal than the execution. I wonder if Capcom's doing anything with that "Fighters of Capcom" trademark they registered some years ago...
Udon was accepting submissions for a Capcom fighter themed artbook at the end of last year, which apparently they already started selling at cons...
It might not mean much, but after Marvel had their crossover games and their DLC removed from digital stores, they'd have extra motivation to stick to their own series. Especially with something like PXZ2 helping to remind people of some of their older works...





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"Re(5):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Thu 24 Sep 22:45post reply

quote:
Why so many Street Fighters instead of some of the characters from the broader Capcom universe, such as Strider (who was part of CFAS)? Why not save Ruby Heart? WHY YUN?


While I agree with all your complaints about CFE, there was an explanation for this (as lame as it is): one of the goals in that game was that each character played EXACTLY as they did in the game they represent (of course, the "EXACTLY" part didn't end up being so accurate...). So the SFII characters (Ryu, Guile, Zangief, M.Bison) were supposed to play like in SSFII Turbo, with simple mechanics and a simple super gauge; the SFIII ones (Chun-Li, Yun...) had moves like the Parry and a gauge similar to SFIII, the Warzard characters could gain levels during the fight, the Darkstalkers ones had Chain Combos, and so on.

Hiryu and Ruby Heart weren't in any of the five systems represented (SFII, SFIII, SF Alpha, Darkstalkers and Warzard). While they could have been added with the same original system that Ingrid had, it would downgrade the novelty about Ingrid (she wouldn't be as "unique").

But of course, while it justifies the presence of many SF characters, that's not really an excuse for the lack of more characters. Capcom could have added a seventh system based on the crossover games, with Hiryu, Ruby, maybe Megaman and Captain Commando as well. D.D. and Rook/Luke could have also been added alongside Ingrid. Unfortunately, none of this happened.





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"Re(6):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Fri 25 Sep 01:51post reply

Hauzer jab boxing matches were one of the silliest and best things ever.





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"Re(7):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Fri 25 Sep 08:03post reply

Actually, my complains about Ingrid's partners was unfair.
They actually DID appear in a game: a stillborn mobile game called Otoranger.
I like that they kept the original setting of "code holder", and that their original game is unknown.

It always feels wrong to see Ingrid referenced to as a "Street Fighter" character.

Also, Ingrid apparently appears in PxZ2, along with Shenmue's Ryo? I wonder how they will insert her in the scenario (and how Ryo will pair with Segata Sanshiro).





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"Re(8):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Fri 25 Sep 22:28post reply

quote:
(and how Ryo will pair with Segata Sanshiro).


More importantly, if they don't have Rent-A-Hero in this game to make fun of Shenmue's astronomical budget or innocently ask Segata Sanshiro how much it respectively cost to cast him in each game, then they failed us all.





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"Re(6):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Fri 25 Sep 22:43post reply

quote:
While I agree with all your complaints about CFE, there was an explanation for this (as lame as it is): one of the goals in that game was that each character played EXACTLY as they did in the game they represent


I'm not a big fan of giving players style/groove choices. They feel like a cop-out, that the developers can't come up with a single acceptable system. CFE was the game where I felt that option was both warranted and deserved. It was a cut-and-paste game, and seemingly meant to be a celebration of different games themselves as much as the characters.

And Capcom didn't deliver.

Everyone was locked to their game system. You couldn't fool around with an SF2 Ryu using Warzard's system, or Hauzer using Darkstalker's system, or pit SF2 Chun-Li against SF3 Chun-Li.

The double let-down was that the game's roster was Street Fighter vs A Few Guest Stars. A celebration of Capcom games, where three-fifths of them were the same series.

The roster make-up would honestly have been a bit more acceptable with selectable grooves, as it would make sense for Capcom to load the roster with SF games in order to cut down on the work required to adapt each character to four other games (as several SF characters already had such representation.)





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"Re(7):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Fri 25 Sep 23:10post reply

quote:
Also, Ingrid apparently appears in PxZ2, along with Shenmue's Ryo? I wonder how they will insert her in the scenario (and how Ryo will pair with Segata Sanshiro).


Ah, PXZ2... if it is like the first one, they'll surely come with a bizarre explanation for all of that. It's that kind of game where the story makes no sense for a player unfamiliar with the series represented in it, but it's a great way to put the most unlikely characters fighting side by side, nevertheless.

(and yes, Rent-A-Hero should be in there. Plus, it's a surprise that Sonic and Pac-Man weren't in the first game already - and since PXZ2 will have Nintendo characters, there's also Mario...)

---

quote:
I'm not a big fan of giving players style/groove choices. They feel like a cop-out, that the developers can't come up with a single acceptable system. CFE was the game where I felt that option was both warranted and deserved. It was a cut-and-paste game, and seemingly meant to be a celebration of different games themselves as much as the characters.

And Capcom didn't deliver.

Everyone was locked to their game system. You couldn't fool around with an SF2 Ryu using Warzard's system, or Hauzer using Darkstalker's system, or pit SF2 Chun-Li against SF3 Chun-Li.

The double let-down was that the game's roster was Street Fighter vs A Few Guest Stars. A celebration of Capcom games, where three-fifths of them were the same series.

The roster make-up would honestly have been a bit more acceptable with selectable grooves, as it would make sense for Capcom to load the roster with SF games in order to cut down on the work required to adapt each character to four other games (as several SF characters already had such representation.)



Indeed. I just pointed Capcom's excuse for the cast chosen for CFE, but I'm not sure if there's any gamer that actually agrees with their choices.





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"Re(8):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Fri 2 Oct 03:02post reply

I doubt I will ever trt Thems Fightin Herds -my sense of aesthetics will not allow me to play a game with a pun for a title- but I must admit they are trying some interesting things. The idea that the music changes based on who is winning is an interesting concept, although one that would probably only work with a very small cast.





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"Re(9):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Fri 2 Oct 03:16post reply

quote:
I doubt I will ever trt Thems Fightin Herds -my sense of aesthetics will not allow me to play a game with a pun for a title- but I must admit they are trying some interesting things. The idea that the music changes based on who is winning is an interesting concept, although one that would probably only work with a very small cast.



Like in Time Killers? The idea didn't work there (then again, what did? That whole game was awful), but if done properly, it could be very nice.





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"Re(10):Fighting Game Thread 10: All 3D" , posted Fri 2 Oct 22:17post reply

Do you remember that poll by ArcSys about which character you'd like to see returning to GGXrd?
Well, intermediate results have been published, and someone is beating Baiken, Briget and Dizzy.

And the (current) top contender is...

I'll LOL myself out.





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"This isn't the Skellingtonmania you want" , posted Thu 8 Oct 04:04post reply

Halloween costumes for USF4. Note Fuerte...





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"Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 05:01:post reply

Woah, who is this new character???

The super is fun. Abel and Alex's chances even as DLC get dimmer day after day...
At least SF finally had its Blue Mary.

EDIT: AAaaaaaaaand the video has been set to private. I guess it's been uploaded early by mistake? Poor Ono, this character is cursed.





[this message was edited by Iggy on Thu 8 Oct 05:08]

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"Re(1):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 05:10post reply

quote:
Woah, who is this new character???

The super is fun. Abel and Alex's chances even as DLC get dimmer day after day...
At least SF finally had its Blue Mary.

EDIT: AAaaaaaaaand the video has been set to private. I guess it's been uploaded early by mistake? Poor Ono, this character is cursed.


I hope Laura is as fun to play as it has been to watch her introduction unravel.





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"Re(2):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 05:14post reply

EB Games NZ providing the supplementary back stabbing

Seriously, coordinating the release of the marketing materials has been hilarious.





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"Re(3):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 05:25post reply

The character moves in a fun way. Like a Blue Mary on Red Bull.
Now all we need to know is who gets the priority when Laura's ass attack and Zangief's bulge attack hit on the same frame.





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"Re(4):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 05:33:post reply

quote:
Abel and Alex
Who? Just kidding, I sort of remember what Alex looks like. That other guy, though...
quote:
Laura's ass attack
!!! The back of Laura's pants changes EVERYTHING. And here I was before thinking that her outfit seemed like it lacked one accent too many to be iconic.

Laura's ultimate contribution, however, will be that her having screen-spanning lightning somersaults may have freed us from having to ever see Blanka again.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Thu 8 Oct 05:35]

Just a Person
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"Re(1):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 06:28post reply

quote:
Woah, who is this new character???

The super is fun. Abel and Alex's chances even as DLC get dimmer day after day...
At least SF finally had its Blue Mary.

EDIT: AAaaaaaaaand the video has been set to private. I guess it's been uploaded early by mistake? Poor Ono, this character is cursed.



Ono must be mad by now... oh well, he's still the one who will explain Laura's V-Trigger and other gameplay stuff of hers.

As for the character, I'm not sure if I like the back of her pants. But she seems to be an awesome fighter!





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"Re(4):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 06:34post reply

quote:
The character moves in a fun way. Like a Blue Mary on Red Bull.
Now all we need to know is who gets the priority when Laura's ass attack and Zangief's bulge attack hit on the same frame.



This is what I got from the video






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"Re(5):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 08:24post reply

I like Laura. I'm still kind of bitter that Mary never showed up in KoFXIII, so maybe this will finally scratch that itch. Can't wait to see people playing her in Brasil. (Assuming we get anything better than that Russian potatocam footage of Zangief.)





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"Re(2):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 17:45post reply

quote:

Ono must be mad by now... oh well, he's still the one who will explain Laura's V-Trigger and other gameplay stuff of hers.



It looks like he's pretty bummed out. He couldn't resist indulging in a black-and-white filter. I honestly really feel for the guy, things like this are very stressful when it comes to work. My heart goes out to this man, hope he gets a good reception at the show.

quote:

As for the character, I'm not sure if I like the back of her pants. But she seems to be an awesome fighter!



My first reaction to the pants was "Oh man, a faux-thong, really?" But honestly I think it works. They obviously set out to make a super-sexy character and the effort certainly wasn't wasted. Plus the rolling momentum on the throws looks fantastic. Another character I'll definitely play.

One thing I wanted to mention about the game in general though, though. I'm probably in the minority but the supers (I mean CAs) for Karin, Rashid, Gief, and Laura have felt underwhelming to me.

I don't have a problem with them being quicker than SFIV's ultra-drawn-out ultras. For some of them I think they are maybe too cartoony in a way that isn't consistent with the rest of the attack/special animations, like Karin's spinning the opponent around like fourteen times before blasting them away (I love the actual chi blast though) or Rashid's silly little kicky feet at the end of his CA. Or Laura orbiting the borders of the screen.

In other cases just don't feel like they have a satisfying final impact, like Zangief's "well I'll just jam them in there a little harder" or Laura's final "oh and btw I was choking him" pose.

I mean, they aren't really bad, they just don't all hit that high bar I'd like them to. But maybe R. Mika's critical art ruined me for all other CAs with the awesome choke face thundering double impact?

But I could always use that meter for EX moves, I suppose.





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"Re(3):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Thu 8 Oct 23:32:post reply

quote:
It looks like he's pretty bummed out. He couldn't resist indulging in a black-and-white filter. I honestly really feel for the guy, things like this are very stressful when it comes to work. My heart goes out to this man, hope he gets a good reception at the show.


He shouldn't worry about that; even if Capcom had nothing new planned for this show, people would still be happy just to have the man behind Street Fighter V attending the event. The fact that he will show a brand-new Brazilian character there (despite her trailer being leaked before the event) will only make people more hyped - and if he also shows her official art and details about her gameplay, even better.

---

UPDATE: poor, poor Ono... the man really had big plans to trick the people at BGS. From what I read, he was dressed with a "Blanka shirt" and was prepared to make people believe initially that he would reveal Blanka... then Sean (who the average gamers probably aren't even aware that is a Brazilian character - or that he exists)... then a female Blanka... to then reveal Laura. Such a shame that people knew in advance about her.

However, people DIDN'T know that he would also bring a badass Laura statue! And it seems that people really enjoyed his presentation, regardless of the surprises he prepared, so hopefully he's not angry or frustrated anymore.





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[this message was edited by Just a Person on Fri 9 Oct 05:24]

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"Laura Matsuda" , posted Fri 9 Oct 08:40:post reply

I am delighted that much-beleagured Ono has still managed to literally unveil one Laura-related surprise! I admit I was not expecting a...hot statue? The real treat, of course, is the set of high-res photos. Two leaks later, I am all in favor of Laura, at last.

Edit: I'd also like to congratulate Laura on being 10,000 times more interesting than her weak-ass brother Sean. It's very endearing that her official page describes her as "Sean's older sister," as if anyone remembers who the hell that is.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 9 Oct 23:41]

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"Re(3):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Fri 9 Oct 12:47post reply

Short low-quality videos of Laura's gameplay are trickling out, and from the looks of it she does indeed have several attack throws where the attack is one part and the throw followup is another. Also it appears she charges up her projectile in her hair. Of course.

quote:

One thing I wanted to mention about the game in general though, though. I'm probably in the minority but the supers (I mean CAs) for Karin, Rashid, Gief, and Laura have felt underwhelming to me.



I actually feel the same way, to be honest. Well, except for Karin's. I actually think Karin's is okay. Her martial art is officially random so it makes sense that she'd do some aikido throw into a weird one-inch punch. The laughing pose at the end helps too. I do think it could be better, but it doesn't need as much help as the other three. With Rashid, Gief, and Laura there's no "oomph" like with the critical arts shown before them.

Rashid does his tornado/genie homage and that's great, but he ends it with one of the most awkard-looking kicks I've ever seen, which doesn't even look like it's hitting, just that he stuck his leg out at the end.

Zangief's I want to like, but I feel like it was too ambitious an idea. He needs to be making a deeper and deeper crater in the stage to show how much force he's applying, like that anime trope where people are so powerful they make craters just standing around (I can't really find a great example on the fly so this will have to do). That would take some serious effects, though.

And now Laura, which is just kind of strange. I mean the lock at the end is okay, but overall it's just kind of silly. She rolls around and it just ends in a freeze frame. If there were just a few extra frames of her wrenching on the neck that would make it look like it had some impact.

At least I can say at this point that there's definitely time to improve them, but will they? I'm not sure. I certainly hope they will, but I don't know what the priorities will be up until release; this is definitely more of a polishing task.





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"Re(4):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Fri 9 Oct 15:30post reply

One way to look at her CA is that it's Ken's rolling throw amped up (heh).

Another way to look at it is that it's a super version of Blanka's rolling throw.

But what it has truly done is unlocked a desire I never knew I had for an electric judoka. Just imagine it: Ryoko with electricity. You know it's a perfect fit.





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"Re(5):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Fri 9 Oct 18:20post reply

quote:
But what it has truly done is unlocked a desire I never knew I had for an electric judoka. Just imagine it: Ryoko with electricity. You know it's a perfect fit.



Not necessarily just for judo either - any good hold that messes with your tendons just "right" can give a really strong impression akin to being struck by lightning, yet with immediate relief the moment it lets go. It's odd that kind of effect isn't used that often, really - I recall Heihachi, early Rugal and later Benimaru having something of the sort, but it's not nearly as common an effect as it could be.





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"Re(6):Next stage: Brazil" , posted Fri 9 Oct 20:04post reply

quote:
At least I can say at this point that there's definitely time to improve them, but will they? I'm not sure. I certainly hope they will, but I don't know what the priorities will be up until release; this is definitely more of a polishing task.

I'm not a fan of these animations, but if Gouki's U2 (the ROFL copter) survived all of SSF4, I'm afraid they are here to stay.

What I really hope they will improve is hair physics. Laura is still OK from the little I've seen, but Cammy is bad and R.Mika is downright embarrassing. Please, don't add Ibuki or Makoro before this is fixed please, I don't want another SSF4 heartbreak. At least Urien won't have this kind of problems.





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"Re(1):Laura Matsuda" , posted Fri 9 Oct 22:48post reply

quote:
Edit: I'd also like to congratulate Laura on being 10,000 times more interesting than her weak-ass brother Sean. It's very endearing that her official page describes her as "Sean's brother," as if anyone remembers who the hell that is.



So Laura is the second transexual character in the SF franchise?





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"Re(2):Laura Matsuda" , posted Fri 9 Oct 23:43:post reply

quote:
So Laura is the second transexual character in the SF franchise?
Hahah, sorry, fixed. That would've been pretty great, though.
quote:
At least Urien won't have this kind of problems.
For Urien, they'd better be focusing on the animation details as with Zangief.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Sat 10 Oct 00:05]

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"Re(3):Laura Matsuda" , posted Sat 10 Oct 05:51post reply

quote:
Hahah, sorry, fixed. That would've been pretty great, though.



It would! Oh well, maybe next time. Until then, we still have Poison.





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"No Urienating in SFV" , posted Thu 15 Oct 02:20post reply

At least, not at the start.





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"Re(1):No Urienating in SFV" , posted Thu 15 Oct 05:26post reply

quote:
At least, not at the start.


It amuses me that after all the Alex/Urien rumors the closest SF5 comes to SF3 is that Laura is related to a character who was too boring to bring back. Oh well, while waiting for the inevitable "shirtless men of 3S" DLC SF3 fans can content themselves with playing SF3 or one of the seven 3S characters that are in USF4.





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"Re(1):No Urienating in SFV" , posted Thu 15 Oct 06:42post reply

quote:
At least, not at the start.

Since now PxZ2 is confirmed to have DLC, everyone hopeful for Alex and Urien can now be annoying about speculating about their chances to appear there.





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"Re(2):No Urienating in SFV" , posted Thu 15 Oct 11:36post reply

quote:
At least, not at the start.
Since now PxZ2 is confirmed to have DLC, everyone hopeful for Alex and Urien can now be annoying about speculating about their chances to appear there.

The only thing that could fill me with more cruel joy than the dashed hopes of the confused individuals who care about Alex and friends would be to have them confirm a 3S character as one of the returning fighters...and have it be Gouki.





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"Re(3):No Urienating in SFV" , posted Thu 15 Oct 22:24post reply

quote:
have them confirm a 3S character as one of the returning fighters...and have it be Gouki.

What are you talking about? The most famous moment in 3rd Strike, or even in the whole SF history, is Justin Wong/Daigo's parry extravaganza at Evo. And it involved Ken and Chunli.

Ergo, SF5 already has the two de facto most important Third Strike heroes, Ken and Chunli. No need for more, it would be unfair to the other, lesser SF games.





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"Re(4):No Urienating in SFV" , posted Fri 16 Oct 02:23post reply

quote:
have them confirm a 3S character as one of the returning fighters...and have it be Gouki.
What are you talking about? The most famous moment in 3rd Strike, or even in the whole SF history, is Justin Wong/Daigo's parry extravaganza at Evo. And it involved Ken and Chunli.

Ergo, SF5 already has the two de facto most important Third Strike heroes, Ken and Chunli. No need for more, it would be unfair to the other, lesser SF games.

Haha, and what's even more excellent than this comment is that for me it was functionally true: gorgeously animated Chun-Li IS Third Strike for me. I never paid her the least bit of attention before, and I could never pay attention to anything but her in Third Strike. Except maybe Robot Keiji Q.





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"Re(5):No Urienating in SFV" , posted Fri 16 Oct 03:49post reply

quote:
Haha, and what's even more excellent than this comment is that for me it was functionally true: gorgeously animated Chun-Li IS Third Strike for me. I never paid her the least bit of attention before, and I could never pay attention to anything but her in Third Strike. Except maybe Robot Keiji Q.



3S Chun Li is a favorite of mine even though I don't use her and even though I'm annoyed by her advantages. I get the impression that SF4 Chun has more interesting tools and options but 3S Chun is just beautifully animated. It's kinda hard to beat that.

In retrospect, Chun has always been well crafted in all the games prior to SF4. Even the brief Alpha revamp costume was good. SF4 made most characters ugly, and that included Chun Li. I'm significantly enjoying the characters models in SF5-- including Chun Li's.

I think its funny but significantly valid when Iggy pointed out that Ken and Chun Li are the poster children of 3S. It's true. Include Yun and you have the 3S Trinity. I find Urien, Oro, Q and Hugo a lot more interesting gameplay-wise but there you go...





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"Re(6):No Urienating in SFV" , posted Fri 16 Oct 12:44post reply

Haha, wow, I see we have a lot of SF3 fans in here.

Seriously, I was never much of an SF3 fan myself and didn't really get into it at all until Third Strike, admittedly because of Chunli, but then I fell in love with using Makoto instead. Even so, that was but a transient period and I went back to the Alpha series because I enjoyed its broken custom combos, characters and aesthetics much more. Somehow, getting 100% Rose combos in A2 just seemed so much more satisfying.

Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
And I liked the music in Alpha 1 and 2 more than SF3 series, please don't hurt me

End of Spoiler







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"Re(7):No 3S in SFV" , posted Fri 16 Oct 13:02post reply

quote:
Haha, wow, I see we have a lot of SF3 fans in here.
There are a lot of SFIII art fans around here, though! Actually, plaing SFIII is like classical music or Virtua Fighter or eating your vegetables. You know it's classier and better for you but deep in your heart you still think it kind of sucks. I told Karasu that once, but I don't care, I'll use it again here! I do admit that years later, I just find the prospect of Alex (who?) being the "main character" even more hysterical than the running joke that Vaan isn't the main character of FFXII. You're right that Makoto is great. If KTall weren't so busy he could probably defend Ibuki. I look forward to seeing none of them in V.
quote:
And I liked the music in Alpha 1 and 2 more than SF3 series, please don't hurt me

YOU'VE PROVED YOURSELF, STREET FIGHTER
There's a good chance that 50% of the reason I can't stand playing Third Strike is because of the music. Except the gloriously inane chatter of Chun-Li's stage, of course.





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"Re(8):No 3S in SFV" , posted Fri 16 Oct 14:05post reply

I'm still holding out for Q and his fresh disco beats.

Although I do love Chun Li's redesign in 3s, I've always felt that there was a fascinating artistry to Q's movement. It's not beautiful or poetic, but it does answer the question of what would happen if someone was all power and zero technique? Hugo didn't really fill that role because as a pro-wrestler he did still have some technique and clear intention to his moves. But Q, he just wanted to hurt. He didn't care if he dislocated a shoulder or hip or fell on his face, he was just going to reach out and hit something and occasionally explode. And his weak KO was just the kind of thing that made you go "........."

I used to do a spot-on voice impersonation of Q back in the day which, predictably, ruined my vocal chords. Now attempting to perform the voice again just results in a lot of dry coughing and an angry throat muscle. I guess the long-term effect was kind of like smoking. Anyway being unable to produce it again means I have to hope that he makes a comeback to fill the void, so I wait.





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"That gear is guilty....." , posted Sat 17 Oct 07:49:post reply

So, apparently; after weeks of Holy Order Sol leading the fan vote poll; at the time of the poll's closing there it was an upset and now an equally boring character (Dizzy) is the next one to appear next in Revelator.

Arc sys apparently mentioned that they haven't started work on her at all; so this might be a good measure of how long they take to design an ubber choppy and poorly balanced character.

There is no talk of if the runner ups are going to made the cut or something (the difference between the 1st an 3rd place is somehing like 600 votes; the first 3 places got roughly 100k votes in total). Funny how the poll ended up with Dizzy, Bridget and Baiken lading and Sol being shafterd to 4th place.



Speaking of, console version has been mentioned as being for ps3 & ps4 and will hit the japanese streets in spring 2016 (that's 4 more months to go at it's soonest?). Dunno if it's gonna be a world wide release. Well, I even dunno if Sign was a world wide release






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"Re(1):That gear is guilty....." , posted Sat 17 Oct 08:56post reply

quote:
Dunno if it's gonna be a world wide release. Well, I even dunno if Sign was a world wide release



Xrd Sign got released in Japan and the US roughly around the same time (December 2014). The European version, on the other hand, came out six months later in June 2015, only in digital form, one week after Xrd Revelator got announced in Japan. European players were obviously very happy and very positive and very thankful about the whole ordeal.





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"Re(2):That gear is guilty....." , posted Sat 17 Oct 10:18post reply

quote:
The European version, on the other hand, came out six months later in June 2015, only in digital form, one week after Xrd Revelator got announced in Japan. European players were obviously very happy and very positive and very thankful about the whole ordeal.



And AFAIK, the EU version is not updated yet (meaning region locked online) and there's no sign of the DLC characters or any other content for that matter.





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"Re(1):That gear is guilty....." , posted Sat 17 Oct 12:46post reply

I actually was looking forward to Baiken, but you can call me guilty in feeling relieved that it's not Order Sol.

So is he really implying that it's not necessarily an SF2 character or is it just mere misdirection?





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"Re(2):That gear is guilty....." , posted Sat 17 Oct 23:34:post reply

quote:

So is he really implying that it's not necessarily an SF2 character or is it just mere misdirection?



I guess a Final Fight character that has also appeared in SF could be considered a classic character?

EDIT: Retsu or someone else from SF1 would be nicer than someone from FF.





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"Re(2):That gear is guilty....." , posted Sun 18 Oct 01:17post reply

quote:
I actually was looking forward to Baiken, but you can call me guilty in feeling relieved that it's not Order Sol.

So is he really implying that it's not necessarily an SF2 character or is it just mere misdirection?

It's Eagle. He's the only blonde that not necessarily from SF2.





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"Re(2):That gear is guilty....." , posted Mon 19 Oct 06:58post reply

quote:
So is he really implying that it's not necessarily an SF2 character or is it just mere misdirection?



From what I understood, he's saying that the last "classic" character may not be from SFII, but is someone that is often in the games of the franchise. Sakura and Dan are two characters that fit this description, since they're very recognizable in the franchise (and even outside of it, like the "Marvel vs." and "SNK vs." crossovers, plus Pocket Fighter and so on) despite not being from SFII. Rose, Guy, Fei-Long, T.Hawk and Dee Jay can also be considered, and maybe Ibuki and Yun (although I suspect that none of the SFIII characters is considered "classic" by Capcom).

I guess the final classic character will be either Guile (due to his connection with Nash and being one of the most recognizable characters of the franchise), Dhalsim (due to his name being on that supposedly leaked list - if it weren't for that, I'd say his chances would be quite small) or Sakura (another very recognizable character, with connections to both Ryu and Karin - then again, if Ono is aiming at diversity, I'm not sure if he would add a third character who fires Hadoukens...).

But I'm awful to guess this kind of things.





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"Re(3):That gear is guilty....." , posted Mon 19 Oct 17:50post reply

quote:
From what I understood, he's saying that the last "classic" character may not be from SFII


Captain Sawada!

quote:
but is someone that is often in the games of the franchise


Ah... Not Captain Sawada... Maybe it's a trick and the last Capcom character is indeed Ken's son, who has been in a lot of games already (just, not playable so far). Or it's Ryu's bag (and he's a shoto as well). But I would guess it's a SFZ character as well.





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"Re(4):That gear is guilty....." , posted Mon 19 Oct 22:12post reply

Since this is the last round of roster speculation for SF5 (before the DLC announcement) I suppose I should get in on it as well. My guess is it's going to be Dhalsim and the block damage on normals is going to make him really scary. That, or it's going to be Holy Order Sol since people can't seem to get enough of that guy for some reason.





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"Re(5):That gear is guilty....." , posted Tue 20 Oct 00:39post reply

quote:
Since this is the last round of roster speculation for SF5 (before the DLC announcement) I suppose I should get in on it as well. My guess is it's going to be Dhalsim and the block damage on normals is going to make him really scary.


That reminds me, the fourth new character is supposed to be from India as well, isn't he? I don't know if India has any specific fighting style (I'm pretty sure that Dhalsim's is fictional, though), but if there is and this newcomer practices it, it could be interesting to have both of them in the same game.

quote:
That, or it's going to be Holy Order Sol since people can't seem to get enough of that guy for some reason.



That... that would be great in a twisted way, actually. Kinda like having Morrigan in her really old 2D sprites fighting the 3D models from SFV.





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"Re(4):That gear is guilty....." , posted Tue 20 Oct 03:02post reply

quote:
Or it's Ryu's bag (and he's a shoto as well).



............ !?(I which he would have showed up in more games, btw)






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"Re(6):That gear is guilty....." , posted Tue 20 Oct 17:18post reply

quote:
Since this is the last round of roster speculation for SF5 (before the DLC announcement) I suppose I should get in on it as well. My guess is it's going to be Dhalsim and the block damage on normals is going to make him really scary.

That reminds me, the fourth new character is supposed to be from India as well, isn't he? I don't know if India has any specific fighting style (I'm pretty sure that Dhalsim's is fictional, though), but if there is and this newcomer practices it, it could be interesting to have both of them in the same game.


I think there's supposed to be an Indian style of wrestling. Darun Meister from the SF EX games was based on an Indian wrestler known as the Great Gama - it would be about as far from Dhalsim as can be, but if that rumor has any truth to it, that's one possibility.
I'd still like Dhalsim to be an option though.





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"Re(7):That gear is guilty....." , posted Tue 20 Oct 18:50post reply

quote:
I think there's supposed to be an Indian style of wrestling. Darun Meister from the SF EX games was based on an Indian wrestler known as the Great Gama - it would be about as far from Dhalsim as can be, but if that rumor has any truth to it, that's one possibility.
I'd still like Dhalsim to be an option though.

That sounds like an interesting choice, but there's a bit of worry going around that SFV may have a lot of grapplers, or at least characters with command throws. Personally I like grapplers so the more the merrier.

But since Street Fighter V is trying to bring back characters who didn't get the cut in SF4, it would be cool to bring some of the EX series or even Rival Schools series characters back in. Sf has quite an expansive universe composed of multiple series, yet Capcom seems insistent on just sticking with the mainline ones, and even then only focusing on 2 and then Zero/Alpha and then 3. Street Fighter 4 followed that same hierarchy, with the vanilla 2 cast being first added in the first ever Sf4 arcade release in 2008, then the Super SF2+Alpha cast were added on consoles. And then the SF3 cast only started showing up by Super SF4 and on.





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"Re(8):That gear is guilty....." , posted Tue 20 Oct 23:58post reply

quote:
But since Street Fighter V is trying to bring back characters who didn't get the cut in SF4, it would be cool to bring some of the EX series or even Rival Schools series characters back in. Sf has quite an expansive universe composed of multiple series, yet Capcom seems insistent on just sticking with the mainline ones, and even then only focusing on 2 and then Zero/Alpha and then 3. Street Fighter 4 followed that same hierarchy, with the vanilla 2 cast being first added in the first ever Sf4 arcade release in 2008, then the Super SF2+Alpha cast were added on consoles. And then the SF3 cast only started showing up by Super SF4 and on.



Wasn't Street Fighter EX made by a different developer and with lots of changes regarding the official SF plot (such as Saiki killing Akuma, if I remember correctly)? I guess Capcom doesn't consider it part of the canon SF series.

The people from Rival Schools could be a nice option, though.





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"Re(5):That gear is guilty....." , posted Wed 21 Oct 00:58post reply

quote:
Or it's Ryu's bag (and he's a shoto as well).


............ !?(I which he would have showed up in more games, btw)



We need more Waku Waku in general. That game really had potential for more development. Bonus Kun would have been perfect for SF. I am trying to remember a game that did have a punching bag as a bonus stage. Even after hitting it to make it swing, it can come back and knock you.

quote:

Wasn't Street Fighter EX made by a different developer and with lots of changes regarding the official SF plot (such as Saiki killing Akuma, if I remember correctly)? I guess Capcom doesn't consider it part of the canon SF series.

The people from Rival Schools could be a nice option, though.



Does any gamer even consider EX to be a classic SF game? To consider a EX character as a classic/returning character for SFV? I ask because, I would prefer them to use one of the EX characters to create a more abstract character to balance the roster. We can get that "yes, finally something different" feeling that I would like to see.





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"Taking my time to climax" , posted Wed 21 Oct 07:26:post reply

Another BlazBlue has been announced in Famitsu this week, and I'll be honest, it's getting hard for me to follow. I completely forgot that Chronophantasma was a thing; I just thought that new game took a very very long time to get released. So this new episode Centralfiction counts as the 4th one? Because BlazBlue: Continuum Shift II (the only release with an actual number) doesn't count as a sequel but simply as a revision? Alright. I'm getting too old for this shit.

Which leads me to a confession. I am really enjoying Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax. It came out in Europe last week, keeping in tone with the treatment of European players we mentioned with GGXrd, but I am actually playing the japanese Vita version provided to Japanese PS+ users in October (possible to populate the online servers for EU players, most certainly to get people interested in DBFC Ignition releasing in December).

I think I am enjoying the game mostly because "I am getting too old for this shit", and DBFC is comfortable like a familiar blanket. It has a game system, probably too complex for a newcomer of 2D fighting games, but familiar enough for anyone who has at least taken this seriously at some point in their life. There's a striker like in KOF2000, everyone has a universal <whatever>, there are EX moves and Supers, every character has the same commands but they all have a clever little quirk to how they fight, there are not too many moves to learn... It just feels right.

I remember the Café discussing the game a while ago, probably near the release of the console version in Japan. At the time, I believe I was quite critical and skeptical following my short experience at TGS. I got much more into it now that I grasp the system, and I got used to the snappy animations which used to bother me in places.

I knew very little about the IPs referenced in the game beforehand, but for everything else, I am the target. I am almost done unlocking all the costumes, which have the kind of refreshing color+pattern variety brought up by KOF12. There's even an ersatz of a Demon Bliss! And the online players from Japan I've met so far are surprisingly beatable.

The fun I had with the game made me look into all the franchises, just to understand why each character was picked. Unsurprisingly, most of the stories are eyes-rollingly terrible for an adult, but it was interesting to figure out the difference between each IP (I'll admit I had never realized 魔法科高校の劣等生 and とある魔術の禁書目録 were two different series until this weekend) and the meaning behind some special moves, quotes or cameos. Finding out that obscure VHS release Boogiepop was originally a light novel and actually launched the light novel boom was genuinely fascinating.

The only reason I launched the game this weekend was because I wanted to take a look at how Akira is transposed in DBFC (you need to finish the game once to unlock him), so what I am going to say should be taken with a grain of salt, but I almost regret that Sega IPs were involved prominently (I am sure there must be a Valkyria light novel somewhere). Even as someone with little knowledge of Dengeki Bunko's world, the cast and their interactions feel very cohesive and I am sure I would have gotten a kick out of trying to figure out the references in each background.

By contrast, the Sega-themed stages feel like a wasted opportunity, and I would have much preferred to have two completely separate game: one for Dengeki, and a similar game for Sega franchises. Afer all, we'll never get Fighters Megamix 2, so why not have a Sega-themed 2D fighting game? That'd be fun.

Also, I never everwant to be seen in the same postcode as that oreimo IP now that I have read more about it, but in the game, the character of Kirino is wonderful. Not only is she fun to play (and possibly overpowered... I was not surprised to see she is top tier), and not only does she perform instant switch cosplay reminiscent of Pocket Fighter, but her meta/4th wall breaking comments are hilarious. And she has an awesome gyaru palette swap. She is the perfect character for this kind of crossover.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Wed 21 Oct 07:54]

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"Re(6):That gear is guilty....." , posted Wed 21 Oct 18:25post reply

quote:
Does any gamer even consider EX to be a classic SF game? To consider a EX character as a classic/returning character for SFV? I ask because, I would prefer them to use one of the EX characters to create a more abstract character to balance the roster. We can get that "yes, finally something different" feeling that I would like to see.



Well, a lot of people consider El Fuerte's Halloween costume a reference to Skullomania, which is about as close to referencing EX Capcom's ever likely to get.


As for a Sega-only take on DBFC, I'd love that - the mixed settings worked out nicely in the Sonic Racing games, there are clearly enough characters with decent movesets to feed animations for Project X Zone, and it would be better than no new Virtua Fighter ever.

BTW, isn't the personified Dreamcast character part of the DBFC story mode? Every video I come across featuring that still has Japanese text, and I wonder about the context for her being there, considering the heavy light novel stuff that I'd expect to be unrelated.
(if it were a sequel hook for a Sega-only game I'd be fine with that)





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"Re(7):That Dengeki is Bunko....." , posted Wed 21 Oct 20:44post reply

Yes, Dreamcast (... Dreamcast-chan? Dorika-chan? Not sure about her official name) from Sega Hard Girls is the MC of the game. She is not playable as a character or assist, and she is actually never named; she is simply refered to as the "denjin" / Electric Goddess in the game. She is the one who teleported the different Dengeki Bunko characters into her Dream (get it? Dream! Ha.) to fight an evil entity which I believe was the bad guy from the Dengeki Gakuen RPG released on DS a few years ago.

I am not sure why but at some point the bad guy takes the form of either Akira (specifically the Virtua Fighter 5 version) or Selvaria from Valkyria Chronicles. What makes no sense here is that neither Virtua Fighter 5 nor Valkyria are linked to the Dreamcast era. Actually, the same could be said of most IPs used for the backgrounds. Oh well...

quote:
a lot of people consider El Fuerte's Halloween costume a reference to Skullomania

El Fuerte is a Mexican wrestler. His costume is a reference to La Parka.

Arika has been allowed to use original characters created for Street Fighter EX into non-Capcom games (e.g. Allen Snider and Blair Dame in Fighting Layer, Skullomania in Technictix, several characters in that 3DS test project that led to nothing) so I assume they own the copyright to these characters and a collaboration for SF5 at least requires their consentment. It would be a nice surprise to see one of them in SF5, for sure.





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"Re(8):That Dengeki is Bunko....." , posted Wed 21 Oct 23:57post reply

quote:
Yes, Dreamcast (... Dreamcast-chan? Dorika-chan? Not sure about her official name) from Sega Hard Girls is the MC of the game. She is not playable as a character or assist, and she is actually never named; she is simply refered to as the "denjin" / Electric Goddess in the game. She is the one who teleported the different Dengeki Bunko characters into her Dream (get it? Dream! Ha.) to fight an evil entity which I believe was the bad guy from the Dengeki Gakuen RPG released on DS a few years ago.



Neat, gotta love pseudo-continuity between different crossovers.

quote:

I am not sure why but at some point the bad guy takes the form of either Akira (specifically the Virtua Fighter 5 version) or Selvaria from Valkyria Chronicles. What makes no sense here is that neither Virtua Fighter 5 nor Valkyria are linked to the Dreamcast era. Actually, the same could be said of most IPs used for the backgrounds. Oh well...



Segata Sanshiro lived preaching for the Saturn but jumped on a missile for the Dreamcast - I think it's a matter of the Sega legacy trumping its individual elements.

quote:

Arika has been allowed to use original characters created for Street Fighter EX into non-Capcom games (e.g. Allen Snider and Blair Dame in Fighting Layer, Skullomania in Technictix, several characters [URL=http://www.sil

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


I can't help but wonder how much more difficult or expensive it is for Capcom to work with Arika for the EX stuff than it is for them to work with Moto Kikaku to keep using Strider who almost has more crossover appearances as a Capcom representative than games of his own...





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"Re(9):That Dengeki is Bunko....." , posted Thu 22 Oct 07:09post reply

Total conjecture here but I would rather suspect Capcom of America (which you might remember is the IP owner of Street Fighter, not Capcom in Japan) wanting to keep total control over the copyright of the characters featured in a new mainline Street Fighter episode. In which case SFEX characters would more likely appear in a crossover game, for instance.

That being said, I don't know how's the current relationship between Arika and Capcom. What is clear is Arika has been much closer to Nintendo and Bandai Namco in recent years.





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"Re(10):That Dengeki is Bunko....." , posted Thu 22 Oct 23:01post reply

I always feel a bit bad that BlazBlue is a popular series but I haven't seriously paid attention to it in some time. The confounding naming and distribution system of the updates/sequels probably hasn't helped my appreciation for the series. Oh, and when I've tried to read up on the time travel elements of the backstory blood has started leaking out of my ears. Still, there has to be something to the game since they are still cranking out new versions. Maybe it's just me but there are times when it feels like BlazBlue is not meeting me halfway. Is there one BlazBlue game I should try out in order to get the BB experience?

quote:
Total conjecture here but I would rather suspect Capcom of America (which you might remember is the IP owner of Street Fighter, not Capcom in Japan) wanting to keep total control over the copyright of the characters featured in a new mainline Street Fighter episode. In which case SFEX characters would more likely appear in a crossover game, for instance.


I can't imagine Capcom of America going through the trouble of negotiating with a second company just to get Allen Snider in a game. Who can blame them?





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"Re(8):That Kuradoberi is Jam....." , posted Fri 23 Oct 01:31post reply

In other news, I had wondered if Guilty Gear Xrd's animators were going to continue their tradition of maniacal attention to detail where one frame of every one of Jam's attacks kicked her skirt up, and the fine denizens of the internet have confirmed that they have. More interestingly, color and pattern changes based on...the day of the week?! This, this might be the grandest use of an internal system clock since the Nights into Dreams sampler that became Christmas Nights once the Saturn thinks it's December. DOA is officially amateur hour in comparison.





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"Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 02:23post reply

quote:
A Jam For All Seasons


delightful!

Dhalsim now with 200% more cultural elements (turban + beard) and Marvel shenanigans





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"Re(1):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 02:37:post reply

quote:
A Jam For All Seasons

delightful!

Dhalsim now with 200% more cultural elements (turban + beard) and Marvel shenanigans


I like the new design! They had to keep the skulls, unfortunately, but I guess he wouldn't be our favourite yoga teacher/witch doctor without them.

Interestingly, he has many stretchy limbs, but he doesn't seem to have that many moves that reach the other end of the screen? Did the Necro-ise Dhalsim (along with Oro-ing his Yoga Catastrophy?)

Details on the character, post-launch (1 character every two months, probably Urien-Guile-Boxer-Ibuki-Juri-Alex), and fight money.

Interesting that there's no Final Fight representative. I'm curious to see how they'll introduce new characters down the line. Are they waiting for the reaction the 4 new ones of SF5 before moving along? At least the first 3 ones are much better than the offering of SF4.





[this message was edited by Iggy on Wed 28 Oct 03:01]

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"Re(2):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 03:00:post reply

India will get a lot of representation in SFV, it seems. Besides Dhalsim, the trailer shows a stage based in India, and the rumors about the fourth new character (Zen, is that it?) indicate that he also comes from there.

Dhalsim looks cool, but it's surprising to see him added before people like Sagat, Sakura or Guile.

---

quote:
Details on the character, post-launch (1 character every two months, probably Urien-Guile-Boxer-Ibuki-Juri-Alex), and fight money.

Interesting that there's no Final Fight representative. I'm curious to see how they'll introduce new characters down the line. Are they waiting for the reaction the 4 new ones of SF5 before moving along? At least the first 3 ones are much better than the offering of SF4.



Urien and Alex aren't a big surprise, as they were not only in that rumored SFV list (alongside Juri), but were also the only popular SFIII characters that didn't make it to USFIV.

(in fact, I wonder why Capcom didn't just take Seth's model, change its colors, remove the yin-yang ball from his stomach and add some white hair to release it as Urien. That probably wouldn't be more difficult to do than the changes in Cammy's model to make Decapre, and the game community would have certainly enjoyed that MUCH more).

But I'm really surprised that Balrog and Ibuki will enter SFV before Sakura, Sagat or Akuma.





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[this message was edited by Just a Person on Wed 28 Oct 03:32]

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"Re(1):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 03:19post reply

Dhalsim definitely wasn't the hard guess, even Ishmael called it out earlier, and I could have sworn I did too, but I guess that was another forum.

So, being that SFV IS getting Alex and Urien afterall...Maou, would you like fries with that hat?





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"Re(2):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 03:40post reply

Once again I'm reminded of what a visually interesting character Dhalsim is. He's not limited by the movements of a videogame's attempts to mimic a martial art's style. He's not even limited by the ways in which a human body moves. Instead he moves in a manner that the game creators find most interesting and in SF5 they have really gone to town. I don't know how Dhalsim is going to play but his new look is really fun. Even better, now both his wife and son are cheering him on.

All this and six new characters? While we probably already know who they are thanks to leaks we can keep ourselves amused by watching people who are in deep denial insist that their favorite character simply has to be one of the silhouettes.





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"Re(3):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 03:57post reply

Old Dhalsim is wonderful! I really like that our favorite yogi actually looks more like a yogi. It is majorly important that he still have his Zero series throw where he repeatedly punches people in the head while yelling "Yoga! Yoga! Yoga!" in rhythm.

The worst thing abuot this announcement is that the noisy but statistically insignificant Alex fans won't shut up until the game launch. I figured that confining him to a background would have cut off any talk of him actually being playable, but we haven't yet been so fortunate.





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"Re(4):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 04:53post reply

quote:
Old Dhalsim is wonderful! I really like that our favorite yogi actually looks more like a yogi. It is majorly important that he still have his Zero series throw where he repeatedly punches people in the head while yelling "Yoga! Yoga! Yoga!" in rhythm.

The worst thing abuot this announcement is that the noisy but statistically insignificant Alex fans won't shut up until the game launch. I figured that confining him to a background would have cut off any talk of him actually being playable, but we haven't yet been so fortunate.



Well, keep in mind that there's historical precedence for playable characters being in the BG: Yun and Yang, in SF3 and in SF4.





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"Re(5):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 05:03post reply

This reminds me that my money was actually on Sakura, and not only is she not the last returning character, but she's not even in the first 6 extras. I certainly didn't see that coming! Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
Now, it would be wonderful if Gouki could stay away from the game as well, but I already feel greedy so I won't push my luck.





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"Re(6):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 08:04post reply

It's so weird seeing Dhalsim with hair, even if it's only facial hair. I thought the guy was going to stay as smooth and frizzless as a baby's butt until he kicked the bucket. Also I guess in his old age his lungs ain't what they used to be so he spits fire instead of breathing it. Hawking a flaming loogie to give it some gravity.

Having the 6-character announcement come the day after the PC data was mined makes it sadly nothing but a confirmation, but oh well. Even if I'm not excited for most of them, the redesigns so far have at least given me something to look forward to even when a familiar character's name pops up.





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"Re(3):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 18:47post reply

quote:
(in fact, I wonder why Capcom didn't just take Seth's model, change its colors, remove the yin-yang ball from his stomach and add some white hair to release it as Urien. That probably wouldn't be more difficult to do than the changes in Cammy's model to make Decapre, and the game community would have certainly enjoyed that MUCH more).


Didn't they base the SFxT Ogre on Seth? If so, the part about removing that torso sphere was already taken care of, really.

I like the renewed Dhalsim look - the painted stripes on his head were always a strange element of his design to me, as much as I like the character, so working in the turban he removes in some of his intro animations was a neat way to rethink his look, and the beard can't hurt.

He's probably not getting auto-stretch like in the old games, is he? I kinda liked that, but I think that last we saw that was in the Marvel Vs games and his EX version in CvS1...

Didn't SF5 do away with the difference between normal used at far and close range?





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"Re(4):Dhalsim + Beard = Hot Dhalsim?" , posted Wed 28 Oct 20:33post reply

quote:

I like the renewed Dhalsim look - the painted stripes on his head were always a strange element of his design to me, as much as I like the character, so working in the turban he removes in some of his intro animations was a neat way to rethink his look, and the beard can't hurt.



Except that now he has those painted stripes all over his body. I'm not a fan of the redesign, but I'm not in the target audience so I don't care.





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"Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 01:24post reply

quote:

I like the renewed Dhalsim look - the painted stripes on his head were always a strange element of his design to me, as much as I like the character, so working in the turban he removes in some of his intro animations was a neat way to rethink his look, and the beard can't hurt.



I've never been a huge fan of Dhalsim, except for a brief period when he was brought back for Street Fighter Zero 2 along with Zangief, so I really don't care one way or the other. I'm not sure there's a different 'classic' character that I would have preferred, so... yeah. I will say that while the majority of the SFII characters are tastefully handled, Dhalsim always bugged me for the simple reason that he's got those damned skulls around his neck, which makes him feel more than a little bit witch-doctor-y. I'm not sure whose idea it was to add them, but I'd love to know who greenlit keeping them in a character being redesigned in 2015. I do like the beard though, naturally! Let's hope one of his alts is 'hipster Dhalsim', which would assuredly destroy the Internet as we know it.





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"Re(1):Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 02:15post reply

What's the deal with the skulls? I've seen a few comments around the net where people voice out their dislike for them. I don't see what the fuss is about.





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"Re(2):Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 02:29post reply

quote:
What's the deal with the skulls? I've seen a few comments around the net where people voice out their dislike for them. I don't see what the fuss is about.



Storywise, it's supposed to be the skulls of children who died from poverty and symbolizes his reason of fighting to save his villagers despite being a holy man.

Btw does anyone know the timeline that SFV's storyline supposedly takes place? Considering Dhalsim was age 40 in SF2, having gray beard is pretty interesting!





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"Re(2):Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 02:41:post reply

quote:
What's the deal with the skulls? I've seen a few comments around the net where people voice out their dislike for them. I don't see what the fuss is about.



I can't really speak for what other peoples' issues are, but they've always felt like arbitrary tacked on things that don't match the rest of his relatively well-developed design. I mean, this is a guy who has a family that shows up even in the first SFII, but here he is with human skulls around his neck. Or human-like or whatever. It seems like they wanted to have this stoic guru-ish guy but somebody saw an image of Kali somewhere and they just went with it.

quote:
Storywise, it's supposed to be the skulls of children who died from poverty and symbolizes his reason of fighting to save his villagers despite being a holy man.


EDIT: Oh, that makes more sense, I had no idea that was what they were supposed to be!

I'm not sure if I mentioned it before, but I like that they decided to acknowledge his age with this white beard, instead of making him a Sakura-ish eternally young character. He's always felt like he was about a decade older than the rest of the World Warriors cast, but they've made that more explicit here.





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[this message was edited by karasu on Thu 29 Oct 02:44]

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"Re(3):Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 02:46post reply

quote:
Red stripe on head



Part of me wants to hope it was some obscure cultural point that Capcom painstakingly researched. I'm more inclined to believe that it is really just based on the villain of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom:
Mola Ram

It's also the case that a major plot point of the movie is that the villain enslaved all the children of some village, while Dhalsim is busy trying to save all of the children of his village.

Let's face it, if nobody told us Dhalsim was a hero and he didn't have his lovely wife enthusiastically cheering him on, at a glance we could totally accept him as a villainous character just going by his appearance.





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"Re(4):Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 02:55post reply

quote:
Let's face it, if nobody told us Dhalsim was a hero and he didn't have his lovely wife enthusiastically cheering him on, at a glance we could totally accept him as a villainous character just going by his appearance.

If this is all it takes, imagine how our visions of Vega would change if Mrs. Vega were cheering in the background with their Psycho Crusha Children (PCCs)!





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"Re(5):Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 03:01post reply

quote:
If this is all it takes, imagine how our visions of Vega would change if Mrs. Vega were cheering in the background with their Psycho Crusha Children (PCCs)!



(Begins feverishly writing fanfiction)





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"Re(6):Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 03:03post reply

quote:
If this is all it takes, imagine how our visions of Vega would change if Mrs. Vega were cheering in the background with their Psycho Crusha Children (PCCs)!


(Begins feverishly writing fanfiction)

For once, the odd American name-switching would actually work better, as we would know at last that "M. Bison" should really just be read as "Mister Bison" as we joked all along!





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"Re(2):Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 03:48:post reply

quote:
What's the deal with the skulls? I've seen a few comments around the net where people voice out their dislike for them. I don't see what the fuss is about.



All of the other explanations in this thread are sadly misinformed.

The fact is that these grotesque elements explicitly imply that several murders committed by Dhalsim in the name of the Hindu religion — one for each skull. Consider the following quote, originally included in the extended character biography section of the original Japanese instruction manual for Street Fighter II.

"My charming ornaments are made from garlands of human skulls," said Dhalsim. "I dwell in the cremation ground and eat my food from a human skull. I view the world alternately as separate from God and one with Him, through the eyes that are made clear with the ointment of yoga... I offer oblations of human flesh mixed with brains, entrails and marrow. We break our fast by drinking liquor from the skull of a Brahmin. At that time the god Mahābhairava should be worshipped with offerings of awe-inspiring human sacrifices from whose severed throats blood flows in currents."


....


For real though, I think the skulls do kind of contribute to the impression that the character resulted from throwing together a combination of whatever looks visually appealing. In other words, one could accuse the design of lazily borrowing real life cultural/religious elements without thinking much about how it all fits together.

Or it could just be that they look kind of goofy and cheesy. That's my take, really, although it's not enough to put me off the character. Either way, like so many things I think in the end it's just a matter of personal taste.

Like Iggy, I was also kind of hoping they would lose the skulls. But I understand that it's become one of Dhalsim's signature element. I'm content to chalk this up to an artist (are there individual artist credits for the original designs?) looking at a reference photo of an ascetic holding a skull and thinking "Huh, maybe a skull motif might be cool. He can't really hold it while he's fighting... that would be too weird. Maybe if he wears them on a necklace."

Overall, Dhalsim looks pretty damn cool in the new trailer. I am most assuredly getting into those yoga shenanigans as well as continuing my study of Spanish ninjutsu.





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Thu 29 Oct 03:50]

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"Re(3):Hot Yoga" , posted Thu 29 Oct 03:59post reply

quote:
Btw does anyone know the timeline that SFV's storyline supposedly takes place? Considering Dhalsim was age 40 in SF2, having gray beard is pretty interesting!


My guess would be that he's still 40-something but it been a tough forty years.





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"Re(3):Hot Yoga" , posted Fri 30 Oct 15:40post reply

quote:

Storywise, it's supposed to be the skulls of children who died from poverty and symbolizes his reason of fighting to save his villagers despite being a holy man.



This is what I had read aeons ago as well. And I wouldn't have a problem with the skulls even if that wasn't the real reason he has them. I don't see any problem with them at all. While the huge knockers on the female characters do make me wonder a bit.





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"Re(4):Hot Yoga" , posted Fri 30 Oct 15:50:post reply

quote:

Storywise, it's supposed to be the skulls of children who died from poverty and symbolizes his reason of fighting to save his villagers despite being a holy man.


This is what I had read aeons ago as well. And I wouldn't have a problem with the skulls even if that wasn't the real reason he has them. I don't see any problem with them at all. While the huge knockers on the female characters do make me wonder a bit.



I remember hearing that too.

I'm not really a fan of the beard and turban. I thought Dhalsim looked very distinct without them. Adding those items is what every other artist in the world would have done in the first place. It's an easy shortcut that makes him more visually cluttered and draws attention to his face rather than his hands.

As an ethnic indicator, the Turban actually doesn't work that well either, because it's very generic looking. It does not look particularly Indian.

His tattoos also look terrible and arbitrarily designed. They are just random easy shapes, again, not particularly Indian looking. Please trust me on this, arbitrary tattoos with no basis in any real culture are one of the laziest things any character designer can add to a character.

The way his limbs stretch like rubber, with no bones, also looks really bad to me. His moves don't feel like they have any power. For instance look at this image:
http://images.onesite.com/capcom-unity.com/user/haunts/93cbc2ac4a100c1bb371e752f8d71e11.png?v=202200
His leg is moving like an octopus tentacle. There's clearly no bones in there (on top of that the way the texture stretches is completely arbitrary, there's no semplance of leg muscles in there at all). The kick would have looked more natural if it was either straighter, or if it curved in the proper direction as if it was whipping toward the opponent, not curving around and angling at him from an odd angle (which would work maybe if he looked even weirder and played like a trap character)

Sorry for the negativity. I don't mean to rain on the parade, I just ... I really can't stand how this game looks haha. For me, this is even worse than SFIV or even HDRemix.

Again, sorry for the negativity. Let me know if I'm being rude, and I should stop commenting on it.






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Fri 30 Oct 16:11]

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"Re(5):Hot Yoga" , posted Fri 30 Oct 17:15post reply

quote:

Sorry for the negativity. I don't mean to rain on the parade, I just ... I really can't stand how this game looks haha. For me, this is even worse than SFIV or even HDRemix.

Again, sorry for the negativity. Let me know if I'm being rude, and I should stop commenting on it.



No need to be sorry. There's no reason to always polish your words and try to appeal to everyone. It's only fair that the minority also voices out their opinions about this game and Capcom in general, and since you are able to explain why you feel this way there's no reason to apologise.

I agree with most of what you said about the redesign. I feel that the character portrait alone in SSF2 and SSF2X shows more of his character than the trailer footage from SFV. They could have shown what it really is to fight with limbs that are able to stretch. Punches and kicks that extend with force. None of this Mr Fantastic crap.

At first I was shocked when you said that this looks worse than SFIV, but then after thinking why I found myself agreeing with you as Capcom should know better by now. They should be ashamed for not being able to find a new artistic direction and just simply evolving the awful look of IV.

I've been playing a lot of Rumble Fish 2 lately and knowing what Dimps is capable of this is extremely depressing.





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"Re(6):Hot Yoga" , posted Fri 30 Oct 20:34post reply

Damn, the comparison with Necro is terrible. I'm more and more happy that we're not getting a serious Vampire game any time soon.

I still think the game looks better than 4 (and it also looks like it's taking all the right decisions regarding gameplay, which was my other big issue with SF4), but I lost a lot of goodwill for the visual side of it when I saw that hair animated in the exact terrible way as in SF4. Does no one at Capcom think there's a problem with that? When Claw crouches and stands quickly, his hair just levitate awkwardly above his head like they don't know where they're supposed to fall down. If the hair itself is confused, how is the viewer supposed to feel about the entire action and movement?





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"Re(7):Hot Yoga" , posted Sat 31 Oct 01:53post reply

Apparently they seem to be nerfing characters? I thought that presentation said something about only buffing weaker characters?

Well, it is Capcom, it's not like I should be surprised about them going back on something they said earlier.





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"Re(5):Hot Yoga" , posted Sat 31 Oct 04:19post reply

quote:

Storywise, it's supposed to be the skulls of children who died from poverty and symbolizes his reason of fighting to save his villagers despite being a holy man.


This is what I had read aeons ago as well. And I wouldn't have a problem with the skulls even if that wasn't the real reason he has them. I don't see any problem with them at all. While the huge knockers on the female characters do make me wonder a bit.


I remember hearing that too.

I'm not really a fan of the beard and turban. I thought Dhalsim looked very distinct without them. Adding those items is what every other artist in the world would have done in the first place. It's an easy shortcut that makes him more visually cluttered and draws attention to his face rather than his hands.

As an ethnic indicator, the Turban actually doesn't work that well either, because it's very generic looking. It does not look particularly Indian.

His tattoos also look terrible and arbitrarily designed. They are just random easy shapes, again, not particularly Indian looking. Please trust me on this, arbitrary tattoos with no basis in any real culture are one of the laziest things any character designer can add to a character.

The way his limbs stretch like rubber, with no bones, also looks really bad to me. His moves don't feel like they have any power. For instance look at this image:
[URL=htt

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


You make it sound as though we can't handle criticism about things we had no hand in making :p

What I do like about new Dhalsim is that he has lots of new things he can do gameplay-wise, and that goes for some other characters, too, like R.Mika.

I do think that the comparison of the fully animated Twelve and Necro to the still shot of Sim isn't 100% fair, but it is also fair that if this is meant to show a keyframe of the motion it is kind of a confusing frame and that's a real flaw for a keyframe. At a glance I thought Sim was just whipping his leg counter-clockwise, but we're missing the parts of the animation where/if the elastic tension reaches its limit and . I do agree that it's a pretty boneless look, though.

A really great thing in 3S with Twelve that also makes him much more alien and much more distinct from fellow stretchy man Necro is that Twelve can do a lot more than just stretch. Specifically, he can make his body change shape, but does so under the restriction of mass/volume. So when he does his standing fierce (that axe swing Nobi linked to) the axe head is big and heavy and he loses mass/volume on his arm that is doing the swinging. There are liberties taken on this kind of thing (see: his standing roundhouse, where he stretches out and yet also makes a huge blade with his feet), but that concept of volume transformation is there and is realized through the animation. I can imagine that some of the larger structures he makes of himself are lower density, which allows for the big size, but all that is just me trying to rationalize it. It's kind of the same idea expressed in everybody's favourite liquid shape changer that was probably also huge influential with Tweleve, the T1000: the T1000 can't just turn one of hands into a full-sized Mack truck, because he doesn't have that much material in his body.

One of the great ironies of skinned 3D models is that the technology for volume-preserving deformation of these models took a long time to develop, and publications are still being made on this topic! One of the classic artifacts of skinned model deformation was how sharp joint bends looked really ugly. It's a strongly intuitive visual element about the bulk and weight of something that seems physically trivial, but in certain math/computational contexts is really not trivial at all.





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"Re(6):Hot Yoga" , posted Sat 31 Oct 05:28post reply

It's always odd when my interest in music bleeds over into my interest in games.





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"Re(7):Hot Yoga" , posted Sun 1 Nov 22:58:post reply

I had the opportunity to play Street Fighter V's closed beta last month and wrote a review. It's been collecting dust for about a week since I wasn't sure whether to post it, but I decided that some members here might be interested in reading it nevertheless.


---

So far with Street Fighter V (SFV), it's clearly evident from the game's development that Capcom is trying to make it the standard "fighting game tool" for the so called E-sports scene. The game seems to have been developed with a pretty good budget, its program is well designed, and there's a lot of features built into the game's menu and interface.

From the get-go, one of the things that certainly impressed me is that the game features a world map for the menu's background in a subtle manner and it graphically shows the volume of real-time players in each region. What's more, the map also reflects on time zones and shows which areas of the world are currently in morning or night. With just a few taps on the menu, you can check your stats as a player and see replays of your matches, not to mention the rankings of other players around the world. These player stat features were available in SF4 as well, but it's a lot more seamless and well organized in SFV. Capcom certainly put in a lot of thought to making the game into a global product, and it also show much much talented graphic designers the company has.


Gameplay

As far as gameplay goes, SFV plays relatively simplistic like older SF titles that didn't have complicated systems. It also returned to the classic tradition of keeping combos simple with high damage, meanwhile taking out many of the agressive aspects of those older games to try and balance things out. As a result, SFV is designed in a way that the offense and defense will constanly switch sides between players almost every time an attack gets blocked, allowing the gameplay to go back and forth like an exhilarating game of Tennis.

...Or at least, that's how the developers probably wanted the game to play.

SFV is probably a case of "What sounds good on paper doesn't actually play that way". From the aforementioned way the game is designed right now, players aren't given much reward to engage in offense, and because of the high damage that the game features, it seems important to play passively than even SF4, which was a really non-aggressive game to begin with. (explanation on the logic: if you're required to switch to defense after trying to attack, it's better to just play passively and wait until the opponent makes a mistake).

The game also features shorter reach for normal moves compared to past SF titles, slower jump speed, and slow throwing speed that justifies a lot of low-risk poking in point-black range. Because of all that, there seems to be a lot of players that think that the game isn't too fun in the current development build, myself included.

As of the current way the game plays, SFV will probably still be a good entry-level game for people that are new to fighting games, but I think they'll generally have more fun playing games with easier controls and flashier moves, like Dengeki Climax and Persona 4 for example.


Graphics

SFV's graphics certainly makes use of the PS4's console power and while its character models are up to people's taste, it's certainly in the lead of technology together with Tekken 7. Given that, it's sort of ironic for me to have said that sprite-drawn games like Persona 4 and Dengeki Climax may be flashier. The fact that SFV is 3D certainly gives it more dynamic move sequences over 2D titles, but the problem is that 1/the animated sequences don't feel much different in comparison to SF4, and 2/the game has less super moves per character than SF4, ironically because they took out one of SF4's main system to make the gameplay more simple in SFV. It also doesn't help that players need to be more careful than ever about doing special moves including fireballs, because the punishment for getting countered are pretty severe in SFV.

My biggest gripe about graphics in SFV isn't about moves, but more about artistic value. You simply can't feel the same artistic freedom or spirit that was present in older SF games, particularly in terms of stage backgrounds. I have no doubt that Capcom still has talented artists-- you just don't feel their spirit in this game. Or it might be a case of outsourced graphics where the designers that worked on them didn't want to take freedom from the risks of getting their work handed back from Capcom for a retake. That said, some of the animals moving in the background look nice, like the lizard in the New Zealand stage.


All in all, SFV seems to be shaping up as a well-featured "fighting game tool". Its gameplay at the current time seems a tad questionable, but I think it'll be improved over the course of its product lifespan with patches. Hopefully its story mode will be as good as its online features, because it was something which lacked in SF4 compared to other fighting games of the current era.


In a nutshell, SFV sort of plays like a Capcom's version of KOF12.





[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 2 Nov 09:54]

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"Re(8):Hot Yoga" , posted Mon 2 Nov 07:53post reply

quote:
I had the opportunity to play Street Fighter V's closed beta last month and wrote a review.
Your points of contention with the gameplay I can agree with. I do think they were trying to aim for offensive-based gameplay without making it go to 50/50 vortexes or be down-back: the game. But sometimes, the approach they take seems to be way too inline with Sakurai's philosophies which may encourage too much of that passive, defensive play. This is actually more annoying EVEN to the casual player that would get as frustrated as a coyote trying to chase down an ever so evasive road runner who may just let the coyote hurt itself through its own contraptions. Most of these people, Sakurai included, don't seem to understand that the casual players just want to mash and make something hit, and they actually rarely ever block.

Peter Rosas supposedly has a hand in design and development of the mechanics in some way, so that the mechanics would be something of his own vision, but I'm confused if he's encouraging something like this. When the game comes out of neutral into one side aggressing, he should be able to aggress through blocked hits or confirms until he makes way too predictable of an approach that allows the defender to get a good read and respond accordingly. On the other hand, the aggressor should have the ability to make good chases on his opponent and read his defense--so it's not an infinite blockstring pressure that can't be escaped especially by someone with no meterless reversals.

Despite such, there are characters who do have a scary corner game, such as Karin, which counters this sentiment. Oddly enough, it isn't because of her Guren Ken series, which is actually weaker than her SFA3 version because of the ability to mash a crouching jab to deny her nearly any of her followups. This is really confusing because this is part of her V-trigger, and I was under the impression that V-trigger was supposed to give the characters something MORE useful. Instead, Karin is actually dangerous when she DOESN'T rely on her Guren set.

Furthermore, I'm hearing stuff about nerfs happening in each build, but I do recall that the presentation DOES say that they would only "buff weaker characters, not nerf stronger ones". I would hope they start traveling the other direction from this trend, because they're just going to give reason to those still on the fence about SFV more reason to fall back on SFIV, and I'd hate to see that on a game that has the potential to get us away from vortexes and FADC nonsense, among other problematic things of SFIV.





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"Re(9):Hot Yoga" , posted Mon 2 Nov 09:59post reply

I forgot one more thing about the graphics!

For some reason, the character models are dithered in real-time. I'm pretty sure it's due to some filter that the developers are using on them, but I can't figure out why they'd do that. Almost reminds me of the 1990s when people used a lot of GIF on the web.

I'll post up some sample images soon.





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"Re(10):Hot Yoga" , posted Mon 2 Nov 10:45post reply

quote:
I forgot one more thing about the graphics!

For some reason, the character models are dithered in real-time. I'm pretty sure it's due to some filter that the developers are using on them, but I can't figure out why they'd do that. Almost reminds me of the 1990s when people used a lot of GIF on the web.

I'll post up some sample images soon.



I think I know what you're talking about, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I wouldn't say it's a filter but the way the graphics are actually output. I believe it's part of the measures Capcom/Dimps has taken to ensure a smooth framerate for the game. The dithering is strongest in stages with a lot of alpha effects like Forgotten Waterfall because the things like water effects can cause hitches in processing, messing with the framerate. A lot of "prettier" 3D fighting games have made this mistake, so I think Capcom is just taking a safe route until they can optimize the engine to look better. Or it may just stay that way; SF4 also did something like this, if you watched it closely enough.

There are similar measures taken in the hair, cloth and soft-body physics in that they don't collide with each other. If they did, the calculations would probably cause slowdown or dropped frames even on high-end hardware. So instead they just clip through, which doesn't look great but it's better than damaging the framerate.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Hot Yoga" , posted Mon 2 Nov 12:26post reply

The funniest thing about this is that'd it probably be really difficult to make a video of, since the encoding would likely smooth over these high-frequency artifacts, so it might be super hard for me to see an example of this.

I personally wonder if there's some curious interlacing or buffering artifact going on. Gojira's right in that games are very deliberately sloppy in the collision detection of cosmetic physics, but that's quite a separate matter from image rendering/compositing. Historically, there have been some funky approaches to transparency and alpha blending in the (distant) past, but given that this is apparently happening on fully opaque geometry that has nothing between it and the camera, that is kind of weird.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Hot Yoga" , posted Mon 2 Nov 16:18post reply

Collision detection in high quantities of geometry is indeed extremely high in levels of calculation, even if you try to shorten the problem to near logarithmic time complexity through ways such as "boxing" polygons together and checking collisions of those first. It's really not worth it and things like that are saved for making movies where you don't have to worry about doing things real time. A lot of people will still complain about it not being done, but won't understand the math or computation that takes place. I'm willing to bet very few people on the internet have any math beyond high school algebra when there's a bit of linear algebra/vector calculus taking place in these calculations, and even less have an understanding of data structures used to store model data.

You guys are also probably talking about the pixel/fragment shaders when it comes to things like dithering. I have this impression that Capcom is just starting to learn UE4 as evident by the fact that they've been toying with the lighting through each build, among other adjustments. That should be somewhat obvious when looking at the latest build of SFV versus the older one.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Hot Yoga" , posted Mon 2 Nov 20:12post reply

Gojira-- you're probably right! looking back at snapshots it seems to be more apparent in some stages than others.

Some samples of the dithering





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"Re(5):Re(10):Hot Yoga" , posted Tue 3 Nov 00:12post reply

quote:
Gojira-- you're probably right! looking back at snapshots it seems to be more apparent in some stages than others.

Some samples of the dithering




Just curious, but do the dithered characters look slightly better?

One of the complaints against SF4 and SF5 is the "fake" look of the character models. At least from the close-ups, it looks like the dithering breaks up the uniform coloring of the skin textures, which seems like it could potentially downplay that "fake" look. Or is it too minor to notice? Or is it actually more distracting than helpful?





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"Re(6):Re(10):Hot Yoga" , posted Tue 3 Nov 01:24:post reply

quote:
Just curious, but do the dithered characters look slightly better?


The dithered characters just looks like.. well, characters with grainly stuff like in an animated GIF (but with more colors overall). So no, it doesn't help them look better. If anything, it's a serious eye-sore.

At first it seemed so odd that I thought there was something simply wrong with my TV monitor. It turned out to be the game itself though.





[this message was edited by Professor on Tue 3 Nov 01:25]

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"Re(7):Re(10):Hot Yoga" , posted Tue 3 Nov 03:27post reply

Ultra-conspiracy theory:

The build you were running was not running off your PS4, it was streamed from a Sony/Capcom/Sony Gaikai service. The build was a test of streaming play performance.





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"Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 04:11post reply

I would have thought someone would have posted about this sooner.





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"Re(1):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 05:58post reply

quote:
I would have thought someone would have posted about this sooner.



It's funny, none of the other sites I read had any reporting about this whatsoever! I initially saw someone post about it on Facebook, and then I came here, where you had linked to the article.

I'm not really shocked by any of the info, although I'd have preferred the DLC characters include a few new faces, honestly.

I have to say though-- and this may be my shitty old man side coming through-- I fondly recall the days when news about videogame secrets came from actual play and unlocking as opposed to everything being instantly datamined for any scrap of secret information.





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"Re(2):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 07:08post reply

Since technically none of these jokers will be in the game when it ships, I'm fine with Siliconera only having been 50% right on their ridiculous gambit earlier in the year. While I'm annoyed at having to wait for Sakura's inevitable arrival, I realized that what I really enjoy most about new character announcements is watching the small but noisy collection of irritating English-speaking Alex fans having their dreams crushed, so I will be thoroughly disappointed if this is accurate.

Why would anyone spend time adding Mike Bison to the game, of all people? Are there actual fans? It's not like he's even necessary for the Shadowloo Four Kings to be present since Sagat is still missing. I don't get it.

Bigger mystery: how could Capcom think that they could release this on Steam with all this in there and not have the cover blown in advance?





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"Re(3):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 07:33post reply

quote:
the small but noisy collection of irritating English-speaking Alex fans having their dreams crushed, so I will be thoroughly disappointed if this is accurate.



I wonder, what's the equivalent character with this vocal but niche fanbase in the Japanese internet?

quote:

Bigger mystery: how could Capcom think that they could release this on Steam with all this in there and not have the cover blown in advance?



Since when has Capcom been up to speed on anything with regards to what people do with games on the PC?





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"Re(4):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 07:40:post reply

quote:
I wonder, what's the equivalent character with this vocal but niche fanbase in the Japanese internet?
How about Karin? How the hell is she in the game and at the top of the unscientific poll from before? It's just like Alex people...get a vocal and statistically meaningless group of engaged fans to vote on a poll and reward them for their troubles. I suppose it makes sense in terms of marketing buzz!

...but, but...Bison?!

quote:

Since when has Capcom been up to speed on anything with regards to what people do with games on the PC?

I hope they have some idea! I was thinking about buying a Steam copy since realistically I probably won't get a PS4 until Kamitani's new name with the baffling title comes out. Conflicting info...Capcom Japan tells me a PC pre-order gets me Cammy's dumb battle outfit, but English steam tells me I get Hot Chun-Li, too. This is an important consideration. I'd do whatever they say for Hot Ryu, though.

Edit: I took a leap of faith and trusted the Americans that I would get Dumb Cammy and Hot Chun-Li.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Wed 4 Nov 08:13]

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"Re(5):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 09:31post reply

While I do wonder why M. Bison got included, my assumption is that possibly Capcom now has concrete data on character usage and possibly used that to determine who returns. Maybe that still doesn't explain Bison. But maybe he is very popular online. Who knows...

I hope he gets some "remixing" though. I hope all the characters get more remixing. I'm just thankful that Karin, Birdie, Mika and heavily changed Nash are returning.

I can't wait till Laura and Fan/Fun are revealed. It's really the only surprise left in this title.





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"Re(6):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 10:34post reply

quote:
Maybe that still doesn't explain Bison. But maybe he is very popular online.
Maybe? Unlike Alex who I just have a petty dislike for along with the rest of III's cast, I just can't conceive of anyone liking Bison. Storywise, he has a terrible personality, as a playable character he's not particularly famous and was out of the game for years until IV. Is there a hidden Bison constituency outside of Mike Tyson that I don't know about?
quote:

I can't wait till Laura and Fan/Fun are revealed. It's really the only surprise left in this title.

Have I got good news for you. Take a ride on my time machine~





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"Re(3):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 11:08post reply

At this point those six new characters are the equivalent of finding a bicycle shaped package under the Christmas tree; you're excited but you're pretty certain you know what's under the wrapping.

I did find the inclusion of the Capcom Pro Tour events to be interesting. How are those audio files going to be used?

Also, it's a small thing but I also liked that for the most part the character color choices didn't involve radically changing their skin or hair tones. While I appreciate what the old sprite designers were able to create using a limited amount of pixels and colors those results usually only worked for the 1P color. Picking an alternate color and discovering your character's skin is now grey or pus-yellow due to a limited palette is something I'm happy to leave behind.

quote:
Why would anyone spend time adding Mike Bison to the game, of all people? Are there actual fans? It's not like he's even necessary for the Shadowloo Four Kings to be present since Sagat is still missing. I don't get it.

It might be more appropriate to think of Boxer Bison as a successful style of charge character and his inclusion increases the amount of play styles available. Since this isn't DoAX3 -in spite of Urien's sex appeal- I doubt popularity contests are the only criteria the SF producers are using. But how will he play in SF5? Because we know the first batch of newcomers all we can do now is speculate on how they will be incorporated into the SF5 engine. I'm guessing Juri's V-trigger will involve her feng-shui engine since that seems like a natural fit. I'm really hoping Guile's V-skill just makes him take his sunglasses on and off. He has two moves and that's plenty, thanks.





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"Re(4):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 11:48post reply

quote:
At this point those six new characters are the equivalent of finding a bicycle shaped package under the Christmas tree; you're excited but you're pretty certain you know what's under the wrapping.
So perfect.
quote:
It might be more appropriate to think of Boxer Bison as a successful style of charge character and his inclusion increases the amount of play styles available.
Now it makes sense! Did Dudley play that way at all? He's at least a bit less of a sap than Bison.

ALSO! I realized that something major had happened without my noticing it: thanks to the pre-order mentioned above, SFV will be the first game I play on time since Dragon's Crown or (sort of) Guilty Gear, which scares me a bit. I guess the trick is to have wonderful preorder bonuses that I will actually use (art books, character costumes).





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"Re(7):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 12:48post reply

quote:
was out of the game for years until IV
Hey, Boxer (who I assume you mean, this nonsensical change of names) was in CvS 1&2, and the console ports of SFA3. Pretty sure he was in SvC Chaos, as well.





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"Re(8):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 14:21:post reply

quote:
was out of the game for years until IVHey, Boxer (who I assume you mean, this nonsensical change of names) was in CvS 1&2, and the console ports of SFA3. Pretty sure he was in SvC Chaos, as well.

Holy mackerel, I never ever noticed him! Not that I played those, and the console port of Zero 3 has everyone ever, but...I can't believe someone that dull made it into high-energy games like CvSnk. I might like Dan more than Bison.

...I still can't conceive of anyone being excited for him, though.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Wed 4 Nov 14:43]

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"Re(5):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 16:15post reply

quote:
Did Dudley play that way at all? He's at least a bit less of a sap than Bison.



My heart aches to read this unabashed admission of ignorance!

Dudley and Boxer Rog could not be more different.

Dudley has only ever had one charge move, and it was removed in his 3S incarnation but brought back in his SF4 incarnation. Dudley has a weak poking game, and in both 3S and SF4 is full of flashy combos with threatening close range normals that continuously apply pressure and make you scared to press buttons in response.

The irony of Rog is that post-ST, Rog is more of a boxer than Dudley has ever been. Rog has many strong normals, such as a very fast and far-reaching jab (the foundation of a good boxer!) and an excellent sweep. Dudley's standing fierce and Rog's standing fierce in SF4 make for a fun contrast: they LOOK similar, but Rog's is actually good in the poking game, while Dudley's can lead to combo damage up close. Rog's sweep is a strong, fast sweep that is useful in footsies, Dudley's is the infamous "kani-pan" (crab punch) that is terrible in footsies but leads to big combo damage.

Rog is capable of doing the old attack/throw mixup, and if he has some meter, is capable of doing some flashy combos, but his in-close offense is a straight forward one, and his practical combo options are not nearly as varied as Dudley's. Rog can play a fencing game that Dudley cannot, which is kind of funny given how Rog's portrayal has been increasingly brutish (as opposed to British, I guess). That's how I see the philosophical difference of the two in their modern (i.e. SF4) incarnations.

All of that is rather out of wack with how Rog can play in ST, where is one of the most fearsome rushdown monsters that has ever existed in any SF game. His rush punches are extremely fast and safe on block, the recovery from dash upper is almost non-existent (making it a terrifying throw setup), his invincible headbutt is safe on block at close range (WTF!), he has reliable hit confirmable combos into super (a trait extremely few characters have in ST), he has a mashable throw that does way too much damage and flips the opponent for post-throw mixup/pressure... it all comes together to make ST Rog an explosive, in-your-face menace who is capable of ending rounds in seconds, and is probably more representative of Mike Tyson than any of the post-ST versions of him which force him to play in a more restrained, plodding, poke-oriented fashion pretty much all the time.





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"Re(6):Spoon (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 16:32post reply

quote:
My heart aches to read this unabashed admission of ignorance!
I have no dignity! But at least if we keep this up, IronD might come back!
quote:
Spoon's magnificent Bison-Dudley analysis
...yeah, but they're still both boring and lame! I'm terrible, but this is how the world is among the "shoto" crowds.

Actually, I'd blame the Bison-Dudley associations with the uneasy first steps of SFIII. While Capcom was bold/foolish enough to replace their distinctive cast with a bunch of nationless nobodies, they seemed to purposefully draw a few connections between old and new casts to keep people comfortable and maybe even trick them into thinking that their favorites had just been reskinned: I'm thinking Dudley and Necro for Bison and Dhalsim (and Sean for Dan).

From my SFII days, I do remember the relentless rushdown of the weirdly kickless Bison, who has an impressive sense of weight. Maybe that is enough to make him unique as a fighter that people would want to play as, even if his character is bad bad bad.





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"Re(7):Spoon (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 17:00post reply

quote:
Boxer is lame


Back in the 90s, I would've 100% agreed with you, because here's this big dumb boring boxing dude while other guys are shooting fireballs, elastic limbing, literally flying, etc. Boxer in all of SF2 outside of the super shadows (which EVERYBODY has) does not have a single dramatic visual special effect. Guile's Flash Kick isn't just a funny backflip, it has this huge awesome wicked blade-like blur! Honda's HHS has got these wicked crazy movement and parts of his arms literally disappear as he does them! Claw can interactively use the background! Hell, even Zangief got in on the fire action eventually. That might sound stupendously shallow, but that's 100% how my mind worked back when SF2WW was new and it made Boxer the lamest.

The frightening rushdown Rog was something that took time to develop, and certainly the flying headbutt was a key part of it... and that was a move he straight up didn't have until ST. So yeah, I'd agree that Rog was basically one of the most boring of the stereotypes until his sudden shining moment in ST.

Post-ST, I think people just missed the presence of a boxer of any kind, being that it's one of the most recognizable martial arts of all. Unfortunately, the only SF example that came to mind was Balrog (because nobody played SF3 hahahaha.... T_T). So they wound up being nostalgic for Balrog, and wound up getting a really dull-playing version of the character for years and years and years.





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"Re(3):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 18:59post reply

Wait, we already knew about these 6, right? I even remember saying I was surprised Sakura was not only not in the game, but not in the first 6?

As for the other discussion, I never could play Dudley, but I remember liking Boxer in SF2T. And then T Hawk appeared and took my heart (and W/L ratio) away.
I think it's obvious the popularity of characters is not an important criteria in SF5, or we wouldn't have had Birdie to begin with. But they don't seem to focus on gameplay as a primary thing either, since I would have thought all the grappler ruled out Alex, and maybe Birdie's big pokes ruled out boxer. Maybe not? Maybe everyone changed so much that it doesn't mean anything?
We are getting Guile AND Nash in the end, and they play very differently so...

Still, no Sakura, no Dan, no Gouki and no Sagat. If we had been spared Guile on top of those, that would have been a perfect starting roster, but I can't really complain.





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"Re(4):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Wed 4 Nov 20:21post reply

I wish I could waste time and efforts tricking you into believing that you have dreamt the events of the past few weeks but I am too busy with work to be mischievious.

This leak indeed happened at the end of the beta test but for some reason it popped up online again this week and got noticed by way more people than last time. You can find your original reaction if you scroll back to around Wed 28 Oct 05:03 on this very topic.

quote:
This reminds me that my money was actually on Sakura, and not only is she not the last returning character, but she's not even in the first 6 extras. I certainly didn't see that coming! Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
Now, it would be wonderful if Gouki could stay away from the game as well, but I already feel greedy so I won't push my luck.
Also I made myself the promise that I would give Chaz half my salary for November. Let's not forget to deliver on that promise.






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"Re(4):Iggy's money (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Thu 5 Nov 02:00:post reply

quote:

no Dan, no Gouki
And this is the greatest gift of all. Even if Necalli is even worse. Still, the only thing that could be more joyous would be if the Arika VP Mihara's ramblings about EX character guest appearances in the future actually came true.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Thu 5 Nov 02:03]

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"Re(5):Iggy's money (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Thu 5 Nov 03:35post reply

quote:

no Dan, no Gouki And this is the greatest gift of all. Even if Necalli is even worse. Still, the only thing that could be more joyous would be if the Arika VP Mihara's ramblings about EX character guest appearances in the future actually came true.


I suspect that they'll both turn up inevitably like a smell you can't get out of your car no matter what you do.

quote:
Boxer

I've always had a soft spot for Boxer in part because he always seemed so underwhelming (especially for a boss character), and as a result back in Champion Edition days nobody used him ever. His bewildering array of punches always felt fun from Super Turbo onward. But then I'm hardly the poster child for who SFV is targeting! Maybe somebody at Capcom just loves him.





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"Re(6):Six Characters (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Thu 5 Nov 06:30:post reply

quote:
Dudley has a weak poking game, and in both 3S and SF4 is full of flashy combos with threatening close range normals that continuously apply pressure and make you scared to press buttons in response.

The irony of Rog is that post-ST, Rog is more of a boxer than Dudley has ever been. Rog has many strong normals, such as a very fast and far-reaching jab (the foundation of a good boxer!) and an excellent sweep. Dudley's standing fierce and Rog's standing fierce in SF4 make for a fun contrast: they LOOK similar, but Rog's is actually good in the poking game, while Dudley's can lead to combo damage up close. Rog's sweep is a strong, fast sweep that is useful in footsies, Dudley's is the infamous "kani-pan" (crab punch) that is terrible in footsies but leads to big combo damage.

Rog is capable of doing the old attack/throw mixup, and if he has some meter, is capable of doing some flashy combos, but his in-close offense is a straight forward one, and his practical combo options are not nearly as varied as Dudley's. Rog can play a fencing game that Dudley cannot, which is kind of funny given how Rog's portrayal has been increasingly brutish (

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


*Angry rant of sad old person starts here*
Why dudley st hk activate in the 4rth frame, goes nowhere but have hitboxes protecting his hurthboxes? For counterpoking and whiffpunishing things, from really far away.

Almost every one of his normals is for this. And he walks back almost as fast as bison walks foward, beeing perfect to put him at the right spot at the right moment. How can someone say that dudley is bad at footsies? How can someone say that this is not boxer-like?

Footsies are not just pokes, but counterpokes (to cut opponet attacks during activation), whiff punishes (to cut opponent attacks during recovery) and movement speed (to be at the right spot to use a poke/counterpoke/whiffpunsihes at the right timing). And dudley excells in 3 of those 4.
*Angry rant of sad old person ends here*

But seriously, it's not just for flashy combos, i swear. But i agree that he don't have good pokes.

edit: found a video of Juicebox saying the same thing, while demonstrating dudley specific case at 33:57





[this message was edited by caiooa on Thu 5 Nov 06:34]

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"let the Fan voice be heard" , posted Thu 5 Nov 16:16:post reply

So forging ahead is the data-mining train, and the latest find is some of Fan's voice samples.

http://shoryuken.com/2015/11/04/newcomer-fans-voice-possibly-discovered-in-street-fighter-v-audio-files/

So it looks like we finally have Wakamoto and Shigeru Chiba together in a game that's not Soulcalibur 5.





[this message was edited by Gojira on Thu 5 Nov 16:17]

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"Re(7):Iggy's money (Quasi)-Confirmed" , posted Thu 5 Nov 16:52:post reply

quote:

no Dan, no Gouki And this is the greatest gift of all. Even if Necalli is even worse. Still, the only thing that could be more joyous would be if the Arika VP Mihara's ramblings about EX character guest appearances in the future actually came true.

I suspect that they'll both turn up inevitably like a smell you can't get out of your car no matter what you do.

Boxer
I've always had a soft spot for Boxer in part because he always seemed so underwhelming (especially for a boss character), and as a result back in Champion Edition days nobody used him ever. His bewildering array of punches always felt fun from Super Turbo onward. But then I'm hardly the poster child for who SFV is targeting! Maybe somebody at Capcom just loves him.



He's always been a regularly played character amongst all the circles I play fighting games with. Perhaps part of it is the fact that he's maybe still the most well known black video game character ever. Street Fighter is one of the earlier examples of something that was really ethnically diverse and super popular (and not lame and forced like Captain Planet or something). For a lot of people he would have been the first playable black character they ever experienced. When your culture/ethnicity/nationality isn't well represented in the media where you live, something like that can really stick with you.






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Thu 5 Nov 16:57]

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"Re(1):let the Fan voice be heard" , posted Thu 5 Nov 18:34:post reply

quote:
So it looks like we finally have Wakamoto and Shigeru Chiba together in a game that's not Soulcalibur 5.



HOLY CRIPES IT'S Final Fantasy VI's KEFKA Shigeru Chiba
And it sounds like a nutcase character too


Bison/Balrog Boxer's face has changed so much since SF2. That put aside, I always thought that he had more boxer-like moves than Dudley, or to put it another way, Dudley just felt more fictional-- a few reasons in particular being that he'd always throw roses around and had this unexplainably bizzare move called "Thunderbolt" where he'd jump to the top of the screen and come flying upside-down with one fist. Let's Blocking!


[edit] Looking back at Street Fighter 3: 2nd Impact, I realized that the New York stage actually says "Greenwich Village". Nice. Wish SFV had more details like that.





[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 5 Nov 18:41]

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"Re(2):let the Fan voice be heard" , posted Thu 5 Nov 20:30post reply

So Fan is old and evil? I think we're going to be friends.
Now let's hope he's more playable than Gen, and we're set.

There seems to be a couple more characters in the cutscenes? Maybe Alex is in Ryu's set (in which case I don't like his Japanese voice)? I hope some of them are new characters they'll DLC later, like Blazblue.





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"Re(3):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Thu 5 Nov 20:46post reply

I'm getting Lo Pai Pai vibes.

One would think Capcom would be sending out C&Ds over these kinds of things to Shoryuken.com of all places, even if it is partially Capcom's fault for having the negligence to not mask or placehold any of its files.

We are, afterall, in an age of script kiddies and people thinking looking into Windows Explorer is a form of hacking and data mining*.



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
*Data mining is an actual field of computer science based on using large amounts of data to algorithmically generate prediction models for the sake of anticipating the nature of future data, not inserting a disc into drive D: or E: and reading its contents

End of Spoiler







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"The Dhalsim Yoga Rap" , posted Thu 5 Nov 22:25:post reply

Forgot to post this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOqwu_pn2gw





[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 5 Nov 22:34]

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"SFZ Ryu & Ken" , posted Thu 5 Nov 23:19post reply

This is cute.





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"Re(1):SFZ Ryu & Ken" , posted Fri 6 Nov 01:10post reply

I hope Fan is able to walk the walk because he can certainly talk the talk.

quote:
This is cute.



Flipping through the internet -which, admittedly, is a poor idea- I'm impressed by how many people hate the Bengus-esque art.





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"Re(2):SFZ Ryu & Ken" , posted Fri 6 Nov 03:54post reply

quote:
I hope Fan is able to walk the walk because he can certainly talk the talk.

This is cute.


Flipping through the internet -which, admittedly, is a poor idea- I'm impressed by how many people hate the Bengus-esque art.



GUTTER TRASH (those people not the Bengus/GoudaCheese art)






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"Re(4):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Fri 6 Nov 05:55post reply

Oh and on the subject of voices, Skullgirls 2nd Encore has JP voice acting... well, at least in Japan. This is kind of old news but since the first video that was shared had the volume pathetically low I was waiting for the official version.

These evidently won't be in the English version though, so if you're hankering for Daisuke Ono's Beowulf then you'll need to get the JP version (or wait until someone hacks them into the PC version).





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"Re(5):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Fri 6 Nov 06:58:post reply

quote:
Oh and on the subject of voices, Skullgirls 2nd Encore has JP voice acting... well, at least in Japan. This is kind of old news but since the first video that was shared had the volume pathetically low I was waiting for the official version.

These evidently won't be in the English version though, so if you're hankering for Daisuke Ono's Beowulf then you'll need to get the JP version (or wait until someone hacks them into the PC version).

Disasterously, the interfaces and story are available in Japanese but the voices are not, no matter where you are using Steam. Doubly disasterously, the English voices are really bad.

Reminds me: in between Skullgirls and SFV, it could be neat if there were room for Steam IDs alongside the other ones in our profiles...





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 6 Nov 07:04]

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"Re(6):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Fri 6 Nov 09:05post reply

quote:
Oh and on the subject of voices, Skullgirls 2nd Encore has JP voice acting... well, at least in Japan. This is kind of old news but since the first video that was shared had the volume pathetically low I was waiting for the official version.

These evidently won't be in the English version though, so if you're hankering for Daisuke Ono's Beowulf then you'll need to get the JP version (or wait until someone hacks them into the PC version).
Disasterously, the interfaces and story are available in Japanese but the voices are not, no matter where you are using Steam. Doubly disasterously, the English voices are really bad.

Reminds me: in between Skullgirls and SFV, it could be neat if there were room for Steam IDs alongside the other ones in our profiles...



Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I hope you didn't just jump on the Steam store and buy it without seeing the "PS4/Vita" part at the end of the trailer. The Steam version isn't published by ASW so it won't get this update, since Lab Zero doesn't have the licensing and can't afford it.





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"Re(7):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Fri 6 Nov 09:25post reply

Oh, not to worry, I'd played the console version long ago and just happened to see it for cheap as a Halloween special and had no illusions about the translation. It's a smart move for the Japanese release, though!





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"Re(6):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Fri 6 Nov 19:57post reply

quote:
Doubly disasterously, the English voices are really bad.


I wonder how much of this is a matter of being so used to hearing special move names and the like being said out loud during matches in a foreign language, where it might register as another sound effect, and that sounding a lot stranger in a language you're a lot more fluent with.

That being said, I'm not sold on the Japanese Big Band voice, and I could do without the voice distortions on Peacock and Double on either language.





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"Re(7):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Fri 6 Nov 22:46post reply

quote:
I wonder how much of this is a matter of being so used to hearing special move names and the like being said out loud during matches in a foreign language, where it might register as another sound effect, and that sounding a lot stranger in a language you're a lot more fluent with.
That's what I was wondering as well. I don't find the English VA of Skullgirl bad at all, actually. I think the Skullgirl voices fit the characters and even do a good job of conveying their identity (I mean, the voice don't only mimic personality of the character, it adds to it).
Mostly the female characters, though: I'm not sold on Big Band's voice, he needed a much more exaggerated tone (something the Japanese excel at, to the point that they struggle sometimes at making normal-souding voices).

I rarely compromise on localization, but I even put a couple of characters in SF4 in English rather than Japanese after comparing both (at least Hakan, I think).

But English and Japanese are absolutely similar for me: both foreign languages I am very comfortable with. The few experiments of fighting games dubbed in French I have come across have sounded disastrous to me.





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"Re(8):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Fri 6 Nov 23:17:post reply

quote:
I wonder how much of this is a matter of being so used to hearing special move names and the like being said out loud during matches in a foreign language, where it might register as another sound effect, and that sounding a lot stranger in a language you're a lot more fluent with.

The few experiments of fighting games dubbed in French I have come across have sounded disastrous to me.

Ah, I expect that's a common phenomenon, but neither language sounds particularly foreign to me, it's just that for Skullgirls in English, everyone sounds like they're yelling irritably, and Filia's Samson sounds like someone was told to "make a growly monster voice." Maybe I'm being unkind.

Sadly, there's plenty of bad Japanese fighting game acting, of course. I've already blocked out most of SFIV but recall finding it pretty painful, and FFXII's Vaan was a towering achievement. English does have the disadvantage of lacking a voice acting tradition with particularly wide range given that the industry has mostly been for children's animation until recently. In Japanese, whether it's because of this range or because of a lack of the natural cynicism of English, you can get away with saying a lot more fantasy-like things while sounding slightly less ridiculous.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 6 Nov 23:19]

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"Re(9):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Fri 6 Nov 23:24post reply

quote:
you can get away with saying a lot more fantasy-like things while sounding slightly less ridiculous.

Moving-energy-punch!





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"Final Special One-Hit Sure-Victory Attacks" , posted Sat 7 Nov 05:57:post reply

quote:
you can get away with saying a lot more fantasy-like things while sounding slightly less ridiculous.
Moving-energy-punch!



Just be sure your special move doesn't take way too long to say out loud.

Or, you know, plan around it.





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[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sat 7 Nov 06:04]

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"Re(8):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Sat 7 Nov 23:38:post reply

quote:
But English and Japanese are absolutely similar for me: both foreign languages I am very comfortable with. The few experiments of fighting games dubbed in French I have come across have sounded disastrous to me.



Really? How disastrous do Lili (TTT2 and T7) and Sebastian (TTT2) sound, for example?

Ever since Tekken started to include characters dubbed in other idioms than English, Japanese and Korean, I always wondered how good (or bad) the characters sound in their native languages. I can say that Eddy and Christie sound a little off in Portuguese in TTT2 (the voice actors are actually pronouncing everything correctly, but some expressions seem too formal and some intonations don't sound like they should in a casual dialogue). Katarina in T7 seems to be a bit better, though some of her expressions also don't seem like something anyone would say before/during/after a fight.

Regarding other fighting games with voice acting in Portuguese, NRS did an amazing job with Injustice, while the one in MKX is quite bad...





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"Re(9):let the CammyFan voice be heard" , posted Sun 8 Nov 00:13post reply

quote:
I can say that Eddy and Christie sound a little off in Portuguese in TTT2 (the voice actors are actually pronouncing everything correctly, but some expressions seem too formal and some intonations don't sound like they should in a casual dialogue). Katarina in T7 seems to be a bit better, though some of her expressions also don't seem like something anyone would say before/during/after a fight.

Exactly the same. Lili (haven't heard Sebastian) just... pronounces words. These words are in French and grammatically correct. They somehow fit in context. Except they feel... hollow? And the delivery is bland, probably because on top of not being directed by someone who understand what she says, the VA couldn't really make sense of the character she was playing.
The script has been directly translated from Japanese to English to French, and even though the translation is accurate, it doesn't fit because the short voice samples of fighting games require heavy localization, not translation.
I feel bad for criticizing Tekken's localization, as the multilingual thing is hilarious and is probably not easy to pull off, but I think the script for the non Japanese/English speaking characters should be heavily reworked by a native speaker. Not "here is what she says, translate it", but "Here is the information that needs to be passed to the player in that sentence, write whatever a native would say to achieve that in that context".
That's what I was talking about with Skullgirl's English VAs: since they understand their characters, their acting not only conveys the meaning of the words, but also adds personality to the character. Similarly, I wouldn't love Shermie so much if her VA didn't do such an amazing job giving life to every little laugh. Bayonetta wouldn't be the same character if anyone else was delivering the exact same lines (and really, the Japanese VA cannot compare).
Lili's VA doesn't convey anything. Just words, but nothing that adds to the character's personality. It's just hollow noise.





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"Plums to Prudes" , posted Sun 8 Nov 15:40:post reply

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo00HhjBTbE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0uvMjJBHc0
Capcom made a few visual changes which weren't just adjustments to the faces. Most likely to accommodate the ratings board in America at the very least, so I guess I understand why they'd remove the focus of Mika's ass-slap among other things. I still feel that's really prudish and even far more encourages the really childish attitude of "ew, cooties!", however.

But more importantly are the gameplay balance changes. Reportedly, between betas, characters are receiving some questionable balance changes, mostly nerfs. I can sometimes understand that there are times where this needs to happen, but at the same time, there's this. What is ComboFiend up to? What does he plan to do with the magic skirt of chaos? Will our heroes be able to save the day? Find out on the next episode of Dragon Ball Z.





[this message was edited by Doshin on Sun 8 Nov 16:01]

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"Re(1):Plums to Prudes" , posted Sun 8 Nov 17:24post reply

quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo00HhjBTbE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0uvMjJBHc0
Capcom made a few visual changes which weren't just adjustments to the faces. Most likely to accommodate the ratings board in America at the very least, so I guess I understand why they'd remove the focus of Mika's ass-slap among other things. I still feel that's really prudish and even far more encourages the really childish attitude of "ew, cooties!", however.

But more importantly are the gameplay balance changes. Reportedly, between betas, characters are receiving some questionable balance changes, mostly nerfs. I can sometimes understand that there are times where this needs to happen, but at the same time, there's this. What is ComboFiend up to? What does he plan to do with the magic skirt of chaos? Will our heroes be able to save the day? Find out on the next episode of Dragon Ball Z.



To be fair, that slide applies to their post-release philosophy, not development. It creates an awkward disconnect that everyone is able to play the beta and treat it like they would a fully released title. I think a lot of people are still confused that the game is continuously changing for reasons that are outside of their line of sight, but that's what happens during development.





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"Re(2):Plums to Prudes" , posted Mon 9 Nov 03:52:post reply

quote:
To be fair, that slide applies to their post-release philosophy, not development.
I guess you're right. Though it still makes me question what direction they really plan on going here, as Professor's cited gameplay concerns are shared by my own concerns of how it'll become a sort of wait and bait game, and people afraid to make the first move because doing anything is punishable by mashing. Granted, braindead aggression is also mashing, and it's hard to find that clever medium.

I think KOF games did that quite well, but mostly because a lot of the mechanics were universal, and you didn't have too many extremely different playstyles sharing the battlefield. At least, there wasn't something even remotely like a Zangief vs Dhalsim match for example.

Also, the worry extends to future development when DLC hits and if they want to maintain this kind of direction so new players can still be in the game. My experiences with new players who aren't into fighting games is that they never really stick around anyway, and that's just the way it is.





[this message was edited by Doshin on Mon 9 Nov 03:55]

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"Re(1):Plums to Prudes" , posted Mon 9 Nov 06:22post reply

R.Mika's cutting-edge ass physics are too precious to waste!

One hopes that the super-1337 players have managed to save full copies of the beta and that one day, SFV: Ass Slap and Extra 2P Character Select Bounce Edition will be as sought-after and shared among the truly dedicated as SFII: Rainbow Edition. Hey, there's even "Rainbow" in the title!





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"Re(2):Plums to Prudes" , posted Mon 9 Nov 06:36post reply

Since day one Capcom has struggled to figure out just how much of a free show Cammy should give during the course of a match. Being able to adjust the camera angle must make life much easier. It's also interesting to see how Mika's super has evolved. It reminds me of how Abel's ultra changed from early betas. I'm certain someone, somewhere is upset with these differences but since Mika and Nadeshiko still sandwich their opponent's head between their asses the spirit of the move is still certainly intact even if the particulars have changed.

A brief breakdown of Dhalsim confirms my belief that he's now a stance character. Seeing his full animation -instead of just a few publicity shots- also made me think about his design. If I had to guess the top half of his body was designed around his new walking animation where he hops on one leg. The skulls now bounce when he walks, giving him something visual on the upper part of his body when he moves. Likewise, I suspect the turban and beard are there to add more volume to his upper body. Otherwise, the leg he is holding up would give him bottom-heavy, pear shaped look. At least that's my thought, but what do I know?

quote:
To be fair, that slide applies to their post-release philosophy, not development. It creates an awkward disconnect that everyone is able to play the beta and treat it like they would a fully released title. I think a lot of people are still confused that the game is continuously changing for reasons that are outside of their line of sight, but that's what happens during development.

SF5 is odd in that there is almost too much transparency. People are forming hard and fast opinions on a game in which the details are nowhere near finalized.





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"Re(3):Plums to Prudes" , posted Mon 9 Nov 13:18:post reply

quote:
Since day one Capcom has struggled to figure out just how much of a free show Cammy should give during the course of a match. Being able to adjust the camera angle must make life much easier. It's also interesting to see how Mika's super has evolved. It reminds me of how Abel's ultra changed from early betas. I'm certain someone, somewhere is upset with these differences but since Mika and Nadeshiko still sandwich their opponent's head between their asses the spirit of the move is still certainly intact even if the particulars have changed.

A brief breakdown of Dhalsim confirms my belief that he's now a stance character. Seeing his full animation -instead of just a few publicity shots- also made me think about his design. If I had to guess the top half of his body was designed around his new walking animation where he hops on one leg. The skulls now bounce when he walks, giving him something visual on the upper part of his body when he moves. Likewise, I suspect the turban and beard are there to add more volume to his upper body. Otherwise, the leg he is holding up would give him bottom-heavy, pear shaped look. At least that's my thought, but what do I know?

To be fair, that slide applies to their post-release philosophy, not development. It creates an awkward disconnect that everyone is able to play the beta and treat it like they would a fully released title. I think a lot of people are still confused that the game

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


I just seriously saw a Facebook discussion about how Capcom is trying to "hide" their sexism with R Mika and Cammy, but it's "too late" the world has seen it! We're on to you Capcom! LOL.

Seriously though, a Beta is no longer a Beta. If you put a Beta in front of someone, and they have internet access and a social platform, they will speak of it like it's a finished product to everyone they know.

I personally don't like this model for building a game. Playtesting is good to catch serious issues (like game balance, or maybe there's a point where everyone's dropping off, or maybe everyone REALLY HATES this one mechanic). But man, it's a terrible terrible way to make any decisions that require nuance. When you get thousands of voices in the mix critiquing every aspect of the game, expecting to have their opinions appeased in the final product, that's the best way to divest a game of its soul. You put all the responsibility of decision making on the audience, and to wrest it from the hands of the creators.

This is a great way to design a new McDonalds dipping sauce. It is a terrible way to design a fighting game.






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Mon 9 Nov 16:29]

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"Re(4):Plums to Prudes" , posted Mon 9 Nov 21:55post reply

quote:
I personally don't like this model for building a game. Playtesting is good to catch serious issues (like game balance, or maybe there's a point where everyone's dropping off, or maybe everyone REALLY HATES this one mechanic). But man, it's a terrible terrible way to make any decisions that require nuance. When you get thousands of voices in the mix critiquing every aspect of the game, expecting to have their opinions appeased in the final product, that's the best way to divest a game of its soul. You put all the responsibility of decision making on the audience, and to wrest it from the hands of the creators.

This is a great way to design a new McDonalds dipping sauce. It is a terrible way to design a fighting game.
I don't think the main focus of the beta plan was to design the game. We've seen that the game was very advanced in its mechanics since the first time it was shown, and while details have changed and will continue to change, the core of the design mechanics haven't changed yet.

What the beta was/is/will be for is to test the netcode and the servers. Unfortunately, you need a game for that, and many players to connect so you need something to keep their interest, hence the roster changes (I guess they could have kept it to Ryu and Chunli, but then they wouldn't have had that many players trying to connect to the server each time).
I think beta testing online is possibly the best thing Capcom could have done for this game. I'm not sure the PS4/PC crossplay could have been possible without it, for example.

On a separate topic... It might have been for the best if they had used the kind of testplaying you suggest to save SFxT...





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"Re(4):Plums to Prudes" , posted Mon 9 Nov 21:57post reply

Maybe I'm getting old, but I recall older games where girls slapped their own butts (Yuri) and there wasn't much of a fuss about it, and the stuff that might involve some fuss was kept behind a code so it wouldn't be visible by default unless you knew it was there and really wanted to see it (the "blood & bounce" code from KoF94).

Something else from older games that could have helped solve this were conditional animations - for example, IIRC in SFA2 Rose had a special winning animation when she won with a perfect.
They could tweak Mika's slap so it would only happen if Mika's HP is still at 100%, justifying her, well, cheekiness...
The slap's sound is a neat audio cue regardless, so IMO it'd be a waste to get rid of the whole thing unconditionally, especially for a character that projects both strength and fun in a balanced way, even if she's no personal favorite.
It's probably too late to make Nadeshiko the slap-less default, while Mika could be the assist playable via unlock though...





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"Re(5):Plums to Prudes" , posted Mon 9 Nov 23:57post reply

quote:
Maybe I'm getting old, but I recall older games where girls slapped their own butts (Yuri) and there wasn't much of a fuss about it, and the stuff that might involve some fuss was kept behind a code so it wouldn't be visible by default unless you knew it was there and really wanted to see it (the "blood & bounce" code from KoF94).


To be fair, the camera didn't zoom in on Yuri's butt for that slap. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason it didn't was due to the technical limitation, but it didn't.

With SF5, the camera does focus on Mika's rear. Cammy's intro was even worse with how awkwardly obvious its camera angle was aiming for the crotch shot.

And, as you mentioned, some of the old stuff *did* get censored in some regions. So it was either an issue then to some, or developers/publishers worried that it would be an issue. Mind, parents were also less likely to notice what their kids were playing back then.





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"Re(4):Plums to Prudes" , posted Tue 10 Nov 00:13:post reply

quote:
I just seriously saw a Facebook discussion about how Capcom is trying to "hide" their sexism with R Mika and Cammy, but it's "too late" the world has seen it! We're on to you Capcom! LOL.

Seriously though, a Beta is no longer a Beta. If you put a Beta in front of someone, and they have internet access and a social platform, they will speak of it like it's a finished product to everyone they know.

I personally don't like this model for building a game. Playtesting is good to catch serious issues (like game balance, or maybe there's a point where everyone's dropping off, or maybe everyone REALLY HATES this one mechanic). But man, it's a terrible terrible way to make any decisions that require nuance. When you get thousands of voices in the mix critiquing every aspect of the game, expecting to have their opinions appeased in the final product, that's the best way to divest a game of its soul. You put all the responsibility of decision making on the audience, and to wrest it from the hands of the creators.

This is a great way to design a new McDonalds dipping sauce. It is a terrible way to design a fighting game.


Like Iggy said, that's not really why the public beta exists. It's primarily for testing network features so they're working properly from day one.

However I'm not surprised that you had this impression because it's the same mistaken impression of a lot of beta players. They think because they're playing a beta and offering feedback (aka complaining about things) they have some deeper connection to the direction of the game, but that's just their own misinterpretation. And Capcom isn't going to come out and explain to them that what they're playing isn't even the most updated version of the game and hundreds of changes have been made since that build was completed. It's not that they don't want to listen to feedback, it's just that because it's so outdated it gets tuned out. They only want feedback on a few certain things, because that's all they're waiting for.

Some of them get that and they're just complaining to the ether, venting frustration while knowing that it won't have much (if any) effect. But sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between that and someone who honestly thinks that they're speaking from a place of importance.





[this message was edited by Gojira on Tue 10 Nov 00:16]

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"Re(5):Plums to Prudes" , posted Tue 10 Nov 02:09post reply

quote:
I just seriously saw a Facebook discussion about how Capcom is trying to "hide" their sexism with R Mika and Cammy, but it's "too late" the world has seen it! We're on to you Capcom! LOL.

Seriously though, a Beta is no longer a Beta. If you put a Beta in front of someone, and they have internet access and a social platform, they will speak of it like it's a finished product to everyone they know.

I personally don't like this model for building a game. Playtesting is good to catch serious issues (like game balance, or maybe there's a point where everyone's dropping off, or maybe everyone REALLY HATES this one mechanic). But man, it's a terrible terrible way to make any decisions that require nuance. When you get thousands of voices in the mix critiquing every aspect of the game, expecting to have their opinions appeased in the final product, that's the best way to divest a game of its soul. You put all the responsibility of decision making on the audience, and to wrest it from the hands of the creators.

This is a great way to design a new McDonalds dipping sauce. It is a terrible way to design a fighting game.

Like Iggy said, that's not really why the public beta exists. It's primarily for testing network features so they're working properly from day one.

However I'm not surprised that you had this impression because it's the same mistaken impression of a lot of beta players. They think because they're playing a beta and offering feedback (aka complaini

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


Apologies, I think my unending hatred for SFV's garish visuals and art direction have clouded my ability to interpret any information on this game. I was under the impression that they were actually telling the Beta testers that they were also making gameplay and art tweaks based on their feedback. For instance, all the recent outcry about the changes to R Mika toning down her butt slaps etc. I was under the impression they were a direct response to fan feedback. Same goes for the updates to the character's faces etc.

I don't even necessarily disagree with the changes they made. I'm just concerned with the very idea that the public should be so involved in game development every step of the way, setting up this relationship were game dev is not an art, but a service meant to cater to every whim of the customer (which isn't effectie because what people think they want isn't usually what they actually want)






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"Re(5):Plums to Prudes" , posted Tue 10 Nov 02:11:post reply

quote:
Some of them get that and they're just complaining to the ether, venting frustration while knowing that it won't have much (if any) effect. But sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between that and someone who honestly thinks that they're speaking from a place of importance.
Fortunately, I'm certain I speak from a place of importance, and I insist that they get a better ojou-sama laugh for Karin and that you can't have a magnificently percussive ass slap sound effect like R.Mika's without backing it up with visuals~

I think Loona's idea of having "fun" stuff to see if you meet certain conditions is great, and in the spirit of old games...and the genre itself! I'm thinking of getting to first see Gouki in SSFIIX by winning with supers or perfects (whichever it was), shredding clothes in SNK games, Sophitia!! in Soul Edge, etc. Make it fair for everyone and have Ryu's karategi shred into Hot Ryu with fire moves.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Tue 10 Nov 03:06]

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"Re(6):Plums to Prudes" , posted Tue 10 Nov 02:52post reply

quote:
To be fair, the camera didn't zoom in on Yuri's butt for that slap. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason it didn't was due to the technical limitation, but it didn't.



It was a taunt, so doing so would have meant focusing away from a camera angle that let you judge the distance between characters - I'm still annoyed that activating supers in SF4 and beyond does that, personally. Let the fancy animations play out since the hit that seals the deal actually lands, that's how Darkstalkers turned perfectly common-looking moves into visual spectacles that would have otherwise clashed with the rest of its gameplay.

quote:

With SF5, the camera does focus on Mika's rear. Cammy's intro was even worse with how awkwardly obvious its camera angle was aiming for the crotch shot.



I'm getting flashbacks of KoF MI2, and matches of the likes of Lien and Mai against Clark - the ladies would walk in, the camera would focus on their chest, and Clark would say "You look like a pro...".
Shouldn't really be a default behavior...

But damn that slap was great audio punctuation...





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"Re(7):BananaKens in Pajamas" , posted Tue 10 Nov 13:50post reply

quote:
I'm getting flashbacks of KoF MI2, and matches of the likes of Lien and Mai against Clark - the ladies would walk in, the camera would focus on their chest, and Clark would say "You look like a pro...".
Shouldn't really be a default behavior...

But damn that slap was great audio punctuation...

Mai is so cheesy with it that it stops being sexy and just becomes a part of her character. Well, at least that's how I feel about it. Lien is another story because she's a fresher character. Maybe that's giving Mai too much leeway because she was kind of...how to put it...a prototypical character, so to speak?

On the other hand, I don't think sexualization is inherently a bad thing by itself, and can be one of many defining characteristics (yes, for both guy and gal) if it isn't just something thrown in there just for the sake of having it. I worry that people are being a little too afraid of it and how kids may react to it, and a clue of how we're becoming really scared of our own bits of humanity. We really don't give ourselves and others enough credit or faith in the matter of how we treat it or what we learn from it.

It takes a village to raise a baby. Speaking of villages raising babies (or games rather)...
quote:
I'm just concerned with the very idea that the public should be so involved in game development every step of the way, setting up this relationship were game dev is not an art, but a service meant to cater to every whim of the customer (which isn't effective because what people think they want isn't usually what they actually want)
That above analogy about McDonalds is pretty spot on. They really did say that this beta test was mainly to test features such as online and the fight money stuff, and a lot of people misinterpreted it. I don't want to be misunderstood on my earlier posts either; I'm just questioning if this direction is the one they aim to go for when they press on after release. Maybe that was being a little too pessimistic, though.

On the other hand, the balance changes inbetween betas unfortunately seemed to be a little too inviting to some of those criticisms especially from other people who didn't care to read the memo.

We've had loketests and the like (sort-of) function as some kind of way of public balancing, but that was usually around the final stages of the game and reveals of characters weren't so small and intermittent, so we weren't all hooked in the sustained hype machine and we HAD to be patient for some kind of news. The advent of the internet, or rather the more widespread accessibility thereof, really changed all of that for better or worse. And what used to be a small esoteric thing on usenets and Brawl FTP archives has now exploded to really loud unsortable Twitter garbage, and everybody's a capable critic or expert.

Back when MML3 was still an in-development, uncanceled project, it was worrisome that they were asking for the public to participate in its development, which is a gesture that says "Hey, we don't have any ideas of our own about our own thing! Do our job for us!" This, as said above, really does strike the soul out of it. It stops being a labor of love and becomes a chore or a job at a customer service desk. They didn't want it for themselves. There was no passion behind the idea...no "I want to get him off the moon!" Another inherent problem pointed out earlier (or at least implied) was the fact that due to the broader scope of people involved, there's bound to be disagreements and conflicts of interests, as could be seen in Kickstarter projects such as Mighty No. 9. And sometimes a solution is to either write it off democratically or an even worse solution, try to please everybody by pleasing just about nobody at all at the lowest common denominator. Thus alienating people who were more specific with their requests, which is often a large percentage of the stakeholders or other public.





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"Re(6):Plums to Prudes" , posted Tue 10 Nov 15:37post reply

quote:
I'm just concerned with the very idea that the public should be so involved in game development every step of the way, setting up this relationship were game dev is not an art, but a service meant to cater to every whim of the customer (which isn't effectie because what people think they want isn't usually what they actually want)


Interestingly, a Vancouver studio (Klei) is probably one of the ones which spearheaded having very deep involvement with the playerbase relatively early in the development of a game when they made Don't Starve. It worked out really, really well for them, largely because the people that cared to be a part of it already knew that the game was going to be quirky and the Stream Greenlight + development access was novel at the time: they got a generally good audience that genuinely cared for the uniqueness of the game. They wound up being strong advocates for the game, the game creators got good feedback from them, there was a really positive development atmosphere, and everybody was happy.

With a title that's incredibly mainstream, there are things that I think are essential to get a large aggregation of data on. The games which are aiming to be platforms unto themselves, like the moddable Valve games and League of Legends and whatnot, need to make sure that the means by which players engage with the game are constantly improving, and the only way to know that is with a huge aggregation of data. DOTA2 may be the last official DOTA we ever see, because it is constantly being improved, to the extent that they completely replaced its game engine recently! Capcom may not yet have quite that ambition with SFV, but I can see them one day just having "Street Fighter", no numbers. I certainly don't want to see another Lost Planet 2, where a great game got buried because the market at large didn't understand how to engage with it.

This kind of ongoing-ly developed game which is intended to be a mainstream platform unto itself I don't think has a choice but to be more willing to compromise. It turns the game into an even more actively commercial enterprise, and that comes with demands all its own. It's not at all the same as creating a one-off, self-contained piece, for better or for worse. I think that that fundamental aspect of their business has much larger implications: it is software-as-a-service, and all that that entails.





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"Re(7):Plums to Prudes" , posted Tue 10 Nov 20:54post reply

quote:
Interestingly, a Vancouver studio (Klei) is probably one of the ones which spearheaded having very deep involvement with the playerbase relatively early in the development of a game when they made Don't Starve.
Indeed!
Amplitude studio does it as well (design faction/characters/back story/abilities/items, and then everyone votes)(on top of the game being Early Access and receiving a lot of feedback during development).
While their first game was a bit too timid, Dungeon of the Endless is a fantastic game, where not only the core of the game was solid but the character meshed well together into the world building.
But, yeah, that works for smaller projects, both in scope and in mass public appeal.





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"Re(8):Plums to Prudes" , posted Wed 11 Nov 01:07post reply

Besides SFV and KOF XIV (and the console version for Tekken 7), the Season 3 content for Killer Instinct is also in development. Unfortunately, Iron Galaxy hasn't revealed much about it so far.

So, how do you try to distract your fanbase without showing new content? Present them the bios for the old characters and use them to tease the new special moves that they will get in Season 3.

So far, they already presented the backstories for Jago, Sabrewulf, Glacius, Thunder and Sadira. And each new backstory is substantially longer than the previous ones, so I guess by the time they reach ARIA, her bio will be a full book...





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"Re(1):Plums to Prudes" , posted Wed 11 Nov 08:29post reply

quote:
Capcom made a few visual changes which weren't just adjustments to the faces. Most likely to accommodate the ratings board in America at the very least, so I guess I understand why they'd remove the focus of Mika's ass-slap among other things. I still feel that's really prudish and even far more encourages the really childish attitude of "ew, cooties!", however.


While this is a 3D fighter thread, it might be relevant to mention that a couple of months ago Skullgirls saw the removal of some panty-shot animation frames.

Kind of interesting is the official justification given afterwards. The stance is that while they don't go out of their way to hide panty shots and the like, they also don't go out of their way to show it. They felt that the shots in question were made early in development, that their standards have changed, and that they felt those shots went out of the way.

Mind, not long after reading that, I fired up Skullgirls, realized that I hadn't played it since before Beowulf was released, played through Beowulf's story mode, and noticed one of Beowulf's cutscenes has Cerebella's rear pointed at the camera so you can see a gratuitous panty shot...





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"Re(9):Plums to Prudes" , posted Wed 11 Nov 12:22:post reply

quote:
Besides SFV and KOF XIV (and the console version for Tekken 7), the Season 3 content for Killer Instinct is also in development. Unfortunately, Iron Galaxy hasn't revealed much about it so far.



Does anyone else think of Cannibal Ox everytime they see that Iron Galaxy logo?






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Wed 11 Nov 12:22]

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"Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuff" , posted Thu 12 Nov 04:07:post reply

Back when KOF13's producer Masaaki Kukino was at Konami, he apparently worked on a fighting game which was one amongst the many projects of his that never got to see the light of day. After twenty somewhat years, he's finally showing some vintage documents on Gamasutra.

Interestingly enough, it turns out that Kukino joined Konami the same time as Hideo Kojima did in 1986 so they know each other well. It's quite a worthwhile article to read! Did not know he was the father of Silent Scope.

(Need to thank Gunsmith of Orochinagi for the heads up on this.)

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JohnSzczepaniak/20150506/242768/Konamis_games_console.php

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JohnSzczepaniak/20151110/259021/Artwork_from_unreleased_Konami_fighting_game_surfaces.php





[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 12 Nov 04:09]

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"Re(1):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Thu 12 Nov 04:51post reply

Nice drawings. I am actually reading The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers Vol.2 at the moment. It really is the direct sequel to the first book, in terms of messed up layout (maybe even moreso than the first volume because there are many more images and sketches), often erratic writing and overall really interesting info. So the qualities and issues remain the same, but it's mostly really valuable stuff. The book does have significantly less pages than the previous one, which could be a plus or a minus for you (the first one weighed the equivalent of a small calf).

Since the source of Vol.2's contents mainly comes from the same batch of interviews as the first book, it's unfortunate that some of the active developers will only comment on their work or on game-related events dating up to TGS 2013. The problem could grow bigger depending on when he can release the next book. The eventual Vol.3 is already heavily promoted in Vol. 2, which originally annoyed me as I bought Vol.2 on the promise I would get what was missing from Vol.1; but quickly flipping through, it seems all the interviews promised in Vol.1 are indeed inside Vol.2, such as the ex-Human staff and Granzella conversations which I was really looking forward to, so it seems there is no reason to feel cheated.

We already mentioned Vol.1 here in the past but, while the books don't delve too much into fighting games, they are definitely worth a read for the typical MMC reader.





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"Re(2):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Thu 12 Nov 05:12post reply

Any recommended readings for more about the history of SNK and key people well-known and unknown? I'm mainly interested in the era prior to the first collapse and the acquisition by Aruze.





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"Re(3):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Fri 13 Nov 21:37post reply

quote:
Any recommended readings for more about the history of SNK and key people well-known and unknown? I'm mainly interested in the era prior to the first collapse and the acquisition by Aruze.



One that comes to mind is this one from 2011 with Takashi Nishiyama.

There are also a few by composers that worked there, often not exclusively:
Yasumasa Yamada (YAMAPY-1)
Harumi Fujita
Kasatoshi Yoshino and Hiroshi Tsuji


Also, 1999 Metal Slug developer interview
Another partial MS interview





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"Re(4):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Mon 16 Nov 20:49:post reply

Complete design/effect coincedence, or a teaser?
https://twitter.com/KingsofCO/status/665554987611615232/photo/1

Coincedently, 48 is the same number as the rumored roster that was supposed to be debunked (the one we translated that had 'prisoner Chang').





[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 16 Nov 21:21]

chazumaru
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"Re(3):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Mon 16 Nov 21:24post reply

quote:
Any recommended readings for more about the history of SNK and key people well-known and unknown? I'm mainly interested in the era prior to the first collapse and the acquisition by Aruze.



I assume you want English sources, in which case your best bet is Shmuplations.





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"Re(5):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Mon 16 Nov 21:25post reply

quote:
Complete design/effect coincedence, or a teaser?
https://twitter.com/KingsofCO/status/665554987611615232/photo/1

Coincedently, 48 is the same number as the rumored roster that was supposed to be debunked (the one we translated that had 'prisoner Chang').




_If_ we're getting 48 characters then expect wonderful additions like Pink Gold Chang and Dry Mai.





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"Re(5):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Mon 16 Nov 21:55post reply

quote:
Complete design/effect coincedence, or a teaser?
https://twitter.com/KingsofCO/status/665554987611615232/photo/1

Coincedently, 48 is the same number as the rumored roster that was supposed to be debunked (the one we translated that had 'prisoner Chang').

If the 48 number is true, this would be a pretty amazing achievement for a game to have 48 freshly made non-recycled characters. I mean 48 is pretty huge for KOF WITH recycled sprites, ura-characters and headswaps. But to be all made from the ground up? I think that could be unprecedented for this whole genre. I doubt any other fighting game had as big of a debut or a reboot/refresh as 48 characters. No wonder they went with the quasi-cheap looking 3D models if they had to pump out 48 characters because making them with all new sprites or even the "Guilty Gear Xrd" style would not have been even feasible for a number this big.

Still, I do feel like KOF did not need a refresh and could have done well by keeping the KOF XIII sprites, adding a couple or so more teams, doing a new system (perferabbly a simpler one cause man HD combos, as cool as they are as this Clark combo video shows, are kind of insanely hard for me and the average player) and then calling it KOF XIV but we are long past that argument anyway.





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"Re(6):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Tue 17 Nov 00:31post reply

The last fighting game with a huge roster of all-new characters was Jojo ASB (41, if I remember correctly?). The 3D models were gorgeous, with barely any clone, plus most characters had a stand (so double the models) but the game ran at 30 FPS.

...
I take for granted KOF14 will run at 60FPS without slowdown, right? RIGHT?

Before Jojo, the 42 (?) characters of vanilla MvC3 were also a big achievement.





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"Re(7):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Tue 17 Nov 01:36post reply

quote:
The last fighting game with a huge roster of all-new characters was Jojo ASB (41, if I remember correctly?). The 3D models were gorgeous, with barely any clone, plus most characters had a stand (so double the models) but the game ran at 30 FPS.

...
I take for granted KOF14 will run at 60FPS without slowdown, right? RIGHT?

Before Jojo, the 42 (?) characters of vanilla MvC3 were also a big achievement.


I've been doing a lot of thinking about all this KOFXIV news lately, and I think it ultimately won't matter if the models look cheap or not, as long as the gameplay is good. We are all old grumpy codgers around here who are the last remaining culture of people who yearn for brand new, lushly animated 2D sprite work that somehow surpasses or equals the works of the past (when it was often the only choice, most platforms having lower resolution or no 3D capabilities to speak of) while somehow not bankrupting the company who makes it. Which is what it sounds like nearly happened with KOFXIII and SNKP! The bottom line is that if XIV can attract the attention of eSports folks, which seems likely, the series will do well and will perhaps have a lifespan past next year. And I'm sure there are exceptions, but my guess is that the majority of eSports enthusiasts don't give a crap about what the game looks like beyond flashiness and a smooth framerate. And if they can pull off 48 characters, I think it will be doubly impressive. And from a longtime fan's perspective, I can remember quite well how KOF94's rougher style alienated folks who had been fans of AOF's huge sprites, Garou's warm and friendly animations, and Samurai Spirits' crazy designs, so complaints about the series' appearance are nothing new. For me, XIII was a beautiful surprise that just barely avoided putting its creators out of business.

But not to sound completely crotchety-- I think all hope isn't lost for great looking 2D works, but that it will come mostly from smaller imprints like Indivisible (which continues to impress me).





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"Re(8):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Tue 17 Nov 02:03post reply

quote:
I've been doing a lot of thinking about all this KOFXIV news lately, and I think it ultimately won't matter if the models look cheap or not, as long as the gameplay is good. We are all old grumpy codgers around here who are the last remaining culture of people who yearn for brand new, lushly animated 2D sprite work that somehow surpasses or equals the works of the past (when it was often the only choice, most platforms having lower resolution or no 3D capabilities to speak of) while somehow not bankrupting the company who makes it. Which is what it sounds like nearly happened with KOFXIII and SNKP! The bottom line is that if XIV can attract the attention of eSports folks, which seems likely, the series will do well and will perhaps have a lifespan past next year. And I'm sure there are exceptions, but my guess is that the majority of eSports enthusiasts don't give a crap about what the game looks like beyond flashiness and a smooth framerate. And if they can pull off 48 characters, I think it will be doubly impressive.


Agreed. Besides XIII, KOF isn't exactly remembered for its outstanding visuals, considering the constant sprite recycling from game to game. It shone due to its fast gameplay and cool anime-ish character designs. I believe SNKP can do it again.

And, if it can't, it's always possible to re-release KOF'98 UM (maybe with some slight visual upgrade, 94 Re-Bout style) to compensate any financial losses, and people would probably buy it again.





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"Re(8):Ex-KOF13 producer shows off Konami stuf" , posted Tue 17 Nov 02:40