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Sensenic
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"Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Thu 18 Mar 18:18post reply

Since the other one is way too clogged (and it reached a nice round number too, 150), I decided I'd make a new one.

Let us start by posting sth I'm quite surprised it hasn't been discussed here yet:
Ono would like to make a new Darkstalkers for his next project


Now, seeing what they've achieved in facial expression and overall comical deformation effects in SSF4, I say it does at least pique my interest!

Also, he wanted R. Mika to be in the game but couldn't get away with it.
A pity she didn't make it, but then again, how many grapplers would that have meant?

And to finish
quote:

For the record, if this is Juri's stage, then I'll have to say, that I find it out of place for one of the villains to be fighting in such a homely environment. It feels so out of place, that it is almost like a 5 year old child that doesn't quake in panic next to "my years 50's B monster movie" like presence.



I'd say Capcom played that safe already by declaring that stages are not character-based (or at least I recall reading so? Somewhere? ^_^;; )

Therefore Korea stage is not necessarily related to Juri.





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Nekros
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"Re(1):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Fri 19 Mar 00:38:post reply

Yeah, the stage sure is Korea but it claims clearly it's a festival of ancient arts or something.

Btw, Elena also is stated to barely miss her inclusion, also Rolento and Karin (all better choices than Tony-Hawk and DJ).

The new Darkstalkers worries me. Is Ono so sensitive to making another one TODAY? DS is a purely otaku-fan based game, not a mainstream success like SF. Also, giving it the art style of SFIV is a wrong step, it's no so "anime" and fits more a western aestethic. Better go on with TvC graphics but hi-res.





[this message was edited by Nekros on Fri 19 Mar 00:40]

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"Re(2):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Fri 19 Mar 01:23post reply

quote:
The new Darkstalkers worries me. Is Ono so sensitive to making another one TODAY? DS is a purely otaku-fan based game, not a mainstream success like SF. Also, giving it the art style of SFIV is a wrong step, it's no so "anime" and fits more a western aestethic. Better go on with TvC graphics but hi-res.



I cringe to think of a 3D Darkstalkers, really, but I'm glad it hasn't even been discussed until now, when 3D graphics can finally do it some measure of justice. Imagine what it would have been like back in the Street Fighter EX days. Also, I think there is enough 'cartooniness' to the SFIV graphics engine that I think pushing it slightly further is definitely possible, and might even be decent looking. I just don't know why they would bother to do it-- Vampire Savior is pretty close to perfect, game wise, and I can't imagine it could be improved upon by a new game, 3D or otherwise.

Also, I don't mind DeeJay and T. Hawk in SFVI, although Rolento would have been quite welcome! He could have had a HnK alternate outfit!





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"Re(3):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Fri 19 Mar 15:36post reply

I love Vamp. Savior but I do think it could be made a little bit more inclusive. I watch match videos daily but I know I could never be quite that good at the game, while when I watch SF4 vidoes I feel like at least I could compete.

The amount of dexterity required of high level Darkstalkers is pretty astounding.

But I guess even at mid level the game is really fun. :)

Also the prospect of a new game is very cool, but it has to retain it's speed and snappiness. I think 3D in the SF4 engine would be fine, just make the art style a little bit more "dark comic book" with some harder edges and it could look great.

There are just so many florishes and details in the sprites in Dark Stalkers that I wonder if they'd be able to create them all effectively in 3D. Stuff like BB Hood's Grandma appearing out of thin air has to really be done properly or it will look out of place.





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"Re(4):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Fri 19 Mar 16:54post reply

Ono already said they'd probably have to create a new engine for Darkstalkers entirely. If they were to do it.





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"Re(5):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Fri 19 Mar 22:56post reply

quote:
Ono already said they'd probably have to create a new engine for Darkstalkers entirely. If they were to do it.


Oh my god that sounds like work, god forbid Capcom do any of that to earn their salary





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"Re(6):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Sat 20 Mar 00:16post reply

Too bad, I was hoping the previous SF thread would continue to fester until the game was released. There's no reason for this other than that I wanted to see how puffy it could get.

quote:
Darkstalkers


Capcom seems to be bullish on fighting games at the moment so I wouldn't be at all surprised they are looking at other titles that could be brought back. While the Darkstalkers games have always been more of a cult hit when compared to something like the vs games DS has the advantage of being fully owned by Capcom. Depending on how SSF4 does I suspect we may hear about a new DS game by the end of the year.

Personally, I would love to see another DS game. The DS series was Capcom at its most crazy and sexy so any chance to revisit that in a game would be most welcome. It may not come together as well as Vampire Savior did but the idea of even trying to put out something in the same spirit of that game is exciting. It could be argued that the idea of topping VS is unlikely so a new DS should not even be attempted. The problem with this reasoning is that no other video game is going to top VS so the entire industry should have shuttered its doors back in 1997.





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"Re(3):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Sat 20 Mar 00:53post reply

quote:

I cringe to think of a 3D Darkstalkers, really, but I'm glad it hasn't even been discussed until now, when 3D graphics can finally do it some measure of justice. Imagine what it would have been like back in the Street Fighter EX days. Also, I think there is enough 'cartooniness' to the SFIV graphics engine that I think pushing it slightly further is definitely possible, and might even be decent looking. I just don't know why they would bother to do it-- Vampire Savior is pretty close to perfect, game wise, and I can't imagine it could be improved upon by a new game, 3D or otherwise.



I don't think there's any way they could redo Darkstalkers properly in 3d. If they can't do cloth animation properly in 3d (look at how stiff all the gis look in SFIV vs III, especially Makoto) then there's no way they can recreate all the CRAZY traditionally animated distortions that occur in DarkStalkers. The things they do in Dark Stalkers are very particular to 2d. It just wouldn't translate and still have the same character.





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"Re(7):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Sat 20 Mar 01:37post reply

quote:
no other video game is going to top VS so the entire industry should have shuttered its doors back in 1997.

That's what I've been saying since so many years, yet nobody listens.

The other problem with VS is that it wasn't until the years 2000 that any character wielding a sword automatically raises the age rating of 5, or 10 if there's any hint of blood. So a character that looks underage and kills people with knifes or firearms, or Demitri's bloodsucking animations, or Bishamon's EX moves, or any single element of Jedah all seem pretty dangerous in a new game released during the 2010s.

Not to say that I would trust anyone in the SF4 team to preserve the exquisite art direction or the delicate balance between lust, humour and violence of the original game.

All in all, what I mean is: Morrigan in TvC looks very nice.





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"Re(4):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Sat 20 Mar 03:44post reply

quote:

I cringe to think of a 3D Darkstalkers, really, but I'm glad it hasn't even been discussed until now, when 3D graphics can finally do it some measure of justice. Imagine what it would have been like back in the Street Fighter EX days. Also, I think there is enough 'cartooniness' to the SFIV graphics engine that I think pushing it slightly further is definitely possible, and might even be decent looking. I just don't know why they would bother to do it-- Vampire Savior is pretty close to perfect, game wise, and I can't imagine it could be improved upon by a new game, 3D or otherwise.


I don't think there's any way they could redo Darkstalkers properly in 3d. If they can't do cloth animation properly in 3d (look at how stiff all the gis look in SFIV vs III, especially Makoto) then there's no way they can recreate all the CRAZY traditionally animated distortions that occur in DarkStalkers. The things they do in Dark Stalkers are very particular to 2d. It just wouldn't translate and still have the same character.



One of the things I wonder about in this regard is whether or not continuously simulated dynamic materials are actually a benefit.

Put another way:
Take any 3S character with some kind of element that seems to have free-flowing movement, like Makoto's headband/necktie, Ibuki's hair, etc. They look great, and nobody really cares how genuinely realistic they are when they snap from one animation to another, whether due to chaining/cancelling or being hit. They look GOOD.

A lot of 3D games with cloth/hair/other dynamic elements have those elements tweaked and tuned, but their exact behaviour from one frame to the next is the result of simulation, as opposed to some invariant predefined keyframes.

If all of those parts that are simulated are instead animated by hand and have their dynamic aspect removed... would the game look better or worse? In 3D action games, that dynamic quality is pleasant; as preposterously as it dangled and jangled, Hitman 47's characteristic red neck tie looks better and makes him seem more alive because its behaviour from 47's movements is not canned. On the other hand, in fighting games where rigidly fixed behaviours is the norm, would the loss of that dynamic behaviour actually be detracting? I don't know.

Meticulously animating 3D cloth and the like by hand is a process that most people would really rather not do, though.





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"New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Sun 21 Mar 10:42post reply

Not really new information, but this week several new match videos (most of them quite interesting) were posted in YouTube.

I guess this is the first time we see the second version of Seth's final scenario (in the first Abel vs. Dudley match). Notice the creepy coffin-like machines in the background, that fall during the fight, and notice that there are silhouettes inside them... remembering of that trailer about a SSFIV OVA featuring Juri, I wonder: are these silhouettes Juli, Juni and the other Shadaloo Dolls??

Poor gals, I hope someone can rescue them...





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"Re(1):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Sun 21 Mar 12:17post reply

quote:
Not really new information, but this week several new match videos (most of them quite interesting) were posted in YouTube.




Guy's KO dialog "profound sadness" sums ups perfectly my feelings about the american voice acting in the game.

Is Ono seriously thinking about a darkstalkers game? Certainly speaking, I really doubt that the current fan who plays or played the Vampire games oftenly is looking foward to playing a game with Vampire 1 cast, Vampire 1 mechanics and hideous character modeling and ugly shaded CGs. Darkstalker IV (2˛) ftw.







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"Re(2):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Sun 21 Mar 12:59post reply

quote:
Guy's KO dialog "profound sadness" sums ups perfectly my feelings about the american voice acting in the game.
I'llll have my revennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnge

I'm glad she says that in a perfectly normal voice that indicates her exhaustion being knocked out. ... Oh.





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"Re(3):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Sun 21 Mar 19:46post reply

quote:
I'llll have my revennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnge
Don't forget to say goodbye





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"Re(3):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Sun 21 Mar 21:35post reply

quote:
Guy's KO dialog "profound sadness" sums ups perfectly my feelings about the american voice acting in the game. I'llll have my revennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnge

I'm glad she says that in a perfectly normal voice that indicates her exhaustion being knocked out. ... Oh.



That'd sound annoying fast. BUT I kinda like her "whatever" voice bit whenever she quick stands.

Darkstalkers still haven't made a djinn, minotaur, alive gargoyle, Alraune, Yuki-onna, and Jack the Ripper yet. I wonder, if they ever decide to resurrect the franchise and pump out sequels again, if they ever run out of creatures to put in the game.





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"Re(4):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Mon 22 Mar 01:17post reply

quote:
Guy's KO dialog "profound sadness" sums ups perfectly my feelings about the american voice acting in the game. I'llll have my revennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnge

I'm glad she says that in a perfectly normal voice that indicates her exhaustion being knocked out. ... Oh.


That'd sound annoying fast. BUT I kinda like her "whatever" voice bit whenever she quick stands.

Darkstalkers still haven't made a djinn, minotaur, alive gargoyle, Alraune, Yuki-onna, and Jack the Ripper yet. I wonder, if they ever decide to resurrect the franchise and pump out sequels again, if they ever run out of creatures to put in the game.



They could also put in a haniwa.





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"Re(5):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Mon 22 Mar 01:41post reply

quote:

They could also put in a haniwa.



Well, there's already a dogū, sortof.





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"Re(6):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Mon 22 Mar 03:18post reply

quote:

They could also put in a haniwa.


Well, there's already a dogū, sortof.

Don't worry, there's an almost limitless source of awesome scary things.





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"Re(5):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Mon 22 Mar 04:37post reply

quote:
One of the things I wonder about in this regard is whether or not continuously simulated dynamic materials are actually a benefit.

Put another way:
Take any 3S character with some kind of element that seems to have free-flowing movement, like Makoto's headband/necktie, Ibuki's hair, etc. They look great, and nobody really cares how genuinely realistic they are when they snap from one animation to another, whether due to chaining/cancelling or being hit. They look GOOD.

A lot of 3D games with cloth/hair/other dynamic elements have those elements tweaked and tuned, but their exact behaviour from one frame to the next is the result of simulation, as opposed to some invariant predefined keyframes.

If all of those parts that are simulated are instead animated by hand and have their dynamic aspect removed... would the game look better or worse? In 3D action games, that dynamic quality is pleasant; as preposterously as it dangled and jangled, Hitman 47's characteristic red neck tie looks better and makes him seem more alive because its behaviour from 47's movements is not canned. On the other hand, in fighting games where rigidly fixed behaviours is the norm, would the loss of that dynamic behaviour actually be detracting? I don't know.

Meticulously animating 3D cloth and the like by hand is a process that most people would really rather not do, though.

Now that I think about it, I realize I haven't paid any attention to how Makoto's ascot animates in SSF4. I know that Ryu's headband doesn't move according to pre-determined animation and it looks fine. But Makoto's scarf is often used to emphasize movement so it might have to occasionally be animated or at least have something to get it moving when she is doing certain attacks. Oh well, I'll have plenty of time to eyeball that sort of thing when I get the game.

At least the moving character pieces in SF4 don't clip as badly as the hair on the DoA girls. It probably helps that instead of the thin hair strands of DoA, the mobile items in SF4, including the hair, are big chunks. Street Fighters don't believe in using conditioner.





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"Re(1):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Tue 23 Mar 10:36post reply

Double post!

quote:
Not really new information, but this week several new match videos (most of them quite interesting) were posted in YouTube.

I guess this is the first time we see the second version of Seth's final scenario (in the first Abel vs. Dudley match). Notice the creepy coffin-like machines in the background, that fall during the fight, and notice that there are silhouettes inside them... remembering of that trailer about a SSFIV OVA featuring Juri, I wonder: are these silhouettes Juli, Juni and the other Shadaloo Dolls??

Poor gals, I hope someone can rescue them...

First off, it was nice to see SSF4 being played by people who knew what they were doing.

As for the people in the tubes, aren't those the leftover Seths from SF4? Say what you will about Shadaloo, they always produce plenty of spare parts in case something goes wrong. No matter who those people are, it's good to see people stuffed in tubes. You can't have a Capcom game unless people are stuffed in tubes.

To make this post be somewhat useful, here's the opening montage just in case you haven't seen it yet.





Just a Person
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"Re(2):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Wed 24 Mar 00:07post reply

quote:
As for the people in the tubes, aren't those the leftover Seths from SF4? Say what you will about Shadaloo, they always produce plenty of spare parts in case something goes wrong. No matter who those people are, it's good to see people stuffed in tubes. You can't have a Capcom game unless people are stuffed in tubes.

To make this post be somewhat useful, here's the opening montage just in case you haven't seen it yet.



Could be the leftover Seths, but the silhouettes inside these tubes look feminine... plus, Juri's anime trailer shows the Dolls being put inside similar capsules than the ones in this scenario (check the video at 1:55). I'm not saying that this confirms the people in the tubes are the Dolls, but it is a possibility.

Anyway, today 1UP showed the prologues to 9 of the 10 new fighters (let's remember, the prologues to the other 25 fighters are also being remade; poor Dee Jay was forgotten). Instead of animated sequences, they are mostly still images - the images look good, though.

More interesting than that, however, is the information we gather from these videos:

* Apparently, Super SFIV is another fighting tournament (Dudley and Juri are invited, Makoto and Hakan say they will participate of it), instead of random fighters wandering randomly around the world and randomly fighting each other (like the Alpha series).

* T.Hawk never managed to rescue Julia (a.k.a. Juli) from Shadaloo in Street Fighter Alpha 3.

* Dudley's car has been stolen... could that mean that Super SFIV takes place shortly before SFIII?

* Cody went back to prison after SF Alpha 3. The wall of his jail cell is smashed, but the police officer does nothing when he leaves... I guess either Cody got released (but then, why is he still handcuffed?) or the officer respects (or fears) him enough to let him run away.

* Ibuki is... chasing men?? That's sad.

* Curiously, Adon's prologue shows him despising Sagat for retiring from the Muay Thai scene and because Sagat was defeated by him... didn't Sagat retake his Muay Thai champion title by beating Adon up in his SFIV prologue?

* Hakan is quite neurotic with the secret recipe of his oil (I felt sorry for the poor punk lad he beat up, the guy wasn't even trying anything).

* Juri is a psychotic bitch. We already knew that, but it's always good to remember.





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"Re(3):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Wed 24 Mar 07:31post reply

quote:
Apparently, Super SFIV is another fighting tournament (Dudley and Juri are invited, Makoto and Hakan say they will participate of it), instead of random fighters wandering randomly around the world and randomly fighting each other (like the Alpha series).

It already was a tournament in vanilla Street Fighter IV. I believe they said both games took place at the same time, but told different stories (Abel was the central character of the vanilla story, and Juri is the central character of the Super story).

quote:
Dudley's car has been stolen... could that mean that Super SFIV takes place shortly before SFIII?

Ken's wife was just pregnant, according to Street Fighter IV, right? That wouldn't quite work...





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"Re(4):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Wed 24 Mar 08:23:post reply

quote:

Dudley's car has stolen... could that mean that Super SFIV takes place shortly before SFIII?

Ken's wife was just pregnant, according to Street Fighter IV, right? That wouldn't quite work...



Let us not forget that Dudley has almost as much cars as I have hair in my chest. Wasn't there it was also a "I finally found the car" bit in III? I suppose that you could tell yourself that Gill held the car for many years, prior to Dudley finding it.

Then again, I doubt Ono can properly phrase an 'on spot' definition of the word continuity, so I better leave it at that.

I never got Cody's story in the Zero games, but after those prologues, I do feel like willingly throwing myself in jail, so that I can forget everything.







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"Re(5):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Wed 24 Mar 09:10post reply

quote:
Then again, I doubt Ono can properly phrase an 'on spot' definition of the word continuity, so I better leave it at that.

Sakura and Ibuki. In the same game. As they used to look.
It might be better to view the game as "Street Fighter Anniversary", just like it was supposed to be called in the first place...





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"Re(6):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Wed 24 Mar 11:04post reply

quote:
It might be better to view the game as "Street Fighter Anniversary", just like it was supposed to be called in the first place...


SF4 is to Street Fighter what KOF is to Fatal Fury/AoF.





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"Re(4):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Thu 25 Mar 02:20post reply

quote:
It already was a tournament in vanilla Street Fighter IV. I believe they said both games took place at the same time, but told different stories (Abel was the central character of the vanilla story, and Juri is the central character of the Super story).



Good point, I forgot that!

So, do you think the tournament in the vanilla story and the one in the Super story are the same? I agree that it would make more sense.

However, I wonder how Ono's team will manage to show that both games deal with the same tournament yet the story for each character is different from one game to another...





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"Re(5):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Thu 25 Mar 12:05post reply

I think that the story will be a hackjob no matter what they try to do. I'm much more excited that Ibuki will be in the game :)

I think that it's incredible that there are 10 new characters and that the price will be $40.00 apparently? Most companies would slap a new number on the game and full price it.

I'm wondering what the timing of the Japanese arcade release will be, and if SF4 cabinets in Japanese arcades will be deserted for the time being.

I also wonder about the new Virtua Fighter remix/re-release and if it will get me interested in the game again.





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"Re(6):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Thu 25 Mar 22:08post reply

quote:

I also wonder about the new Virtua Fighter remix/re-release and if it will get me interested in the game again.



There's a remix coming out? For consoles?





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"Re(7):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Fri 26 Mar 04:54post reply

quote:

I also wonder about the new Virtua Fighter remix/re-release and if it will get me interested in the game again.



quote:
There's a remix coming out? For consoles?



I didn't know about it either, but according to Wikipedia, yes, there is. It's called Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown.

The Wikipedia entry does not mention if the game will be released in Arcade, in home consoles, or both. But apparently, it is meant only for Japanese arcades.

Damn. Let's hope that SEGA changes their minds and release this game in consoles as well...





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"Re(8):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Fri 26 Mar 11:25post reply

The VF faithful are praying that this is why VF5R wasn't released on consoles, they were saving their energy to port the Final Showdown version. But there's no concrete information yet.

I wouldn't mind buying the game again, and maybe I'll give online play a try. One thing about VF is if you don't keep up with each iteration, the new stuff can quickly overwhelm you. I used to be at least decent, but now I don't know how to do the new wall combos, etc., so I can't win.





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"Re(9):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Sat 27 Mar 03:44post reply

New blog entry from Nakky that features boxing gloves, Ryu punching women, and something I have yet to find a satisfactory answer for.





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"Re(10):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Sat 27 Mar 10:25:post reply

quote:
Ryu punching women
Heheh, they were hoping that all the women would have the same goofy face the guys have when getting slugged by a Metsushouryuu that makes them look like they have Antonio Inoki's huge pelican chin...sadly, only Rose seems to have gotten the treatment.

quote:
something I have yet to find a satisfactory answer for.

Why, it's the tae kwon do auntie you've always wanted!





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[this message was edited by Maou on Sat 27 Mar 10:29]

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"Re(10):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Sat 27 Mar 11:47post reply

quote:
something I have yet to find a satisfactory answer for.



Who's that? Is that some new character who didn't make the cut for SSFIV, or is it one of the alleged many previous designs for Juri? I remember one of the developers saying one early idea for Juri would be making her fat, but I don't recall anyone mentioning she would be old...

Plus, I don't think this old lady looks like a Taekwondo fighter. Where are her Taekwondo pants, or those "feet gloves" (I don't know how to call them) that characters like Hwoarang, Kim Kaphwan and Juri herself wear in their feet?





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"Re(2):Re(10):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dol" , posted Sat 27 Mar 18:06post reply

quote:
Plus, I don't think this old lady looks like a Taekwondo fighter. Where are her Taekwondo pants, or those "feet gloves" (I don't know how to call them) that characters like Hwoarang, Kim Kaphwan and Juri herself wear in their feet?

Entirely true, but tae kwon do auntie is what it says, so I guess that's what we've got! Or didn't get, fortunately.





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"Re(3):Re(10):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dol" , posted Sun 28 Mar 03:18:post reply

quote:
Plus, I don't think this old lady looks like a Taekwondo fighter. Where are her Taekwondo pants, or those "feet gloves" (I don't know how to call them) that characters like Hwoarang, Kim Kaphwan and Juri herself wear in their feet?
Entirely true, but tae kwon do auntie is what it says, so I guess that's what we've got! Or didn't get, fortunately.

The more I look at that martial arts mama-san the more she looks like she lumbered out of a Gouketsuji Ichizoku game. That's a very hearty looking woman.

EDIT: If you're sick of looking at shaky game footage recorded off someone's phone here are some 720p YouTube videos.





[this message was edited by Ishmael on Mon 29 Mar 22:12]

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"Re(1):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Mon 5 Apr 03:07:post reply

Heads up: arcade version confirmed.





[this message was edited by Stifu on Mon 5 Apr 03:09]

Ishmael
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"Re(2):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Tue 6 Apr 12:04post reply

quote:
Heads up: arcade version confirmed.

While that's cool for those that still have an arcade scene in their area I do wonder why Capcom waited until the 11th hour to decide on this. I'm certain there is a good explanation out there but since there aren't any decent arcades left where I am I wasn't paying attention to the previously stated pros and cons.

To keep this post from being totally useless, I will say that I rather liked this commercial. The number of fighting game commercials that I can even remember is very small so seeing one that is not only memorable but I actually liked as well is something of a novelty.





Ishmael
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"Re(1):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Wed 7 Apr 21:42post reply

quote:
Not really new information, but this week several new match videos (most of them quite interesting) were posted in YouTube.

I guess this is the first time we see the second version of Seth's final scenario (in the first Abel vs. Dudley match). Notice the creepy coffin-like machines in the background, that fall during the fight, and notice that there are silhouettes inside them... remembering of that trailer about a SSFIV OVA featuring Juri, I wonder: are these silhouettes Juli, Juni and the other Shadaloo Dolls??

Poor gals, I hope someone can rescue them...


Well I'll be, someone did stuff the Dolls into tubes after all.

Image from Dengeki article.





Just a Person
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"Re(2):New match videos (+ Shadaloo Dolls???)" , posted Thu 8 Apr 00:31post reply

quote:
Well I'll be, someone did stuff the Dolls into tubes after all.

Image from Dengeki article.



So, from what I understood, the full Juri anime was shown in this event... and no one cared to spoil the plot in the internet?? Damn!

I hope Chun-Li defeats Juri by the end of the anime. And since Juli is in it, I hope T.Hawk makes a cameo too...

And I wouldn't complain if Decapre's face was finally shown in the anime, just to end the discussions of whether she is a clone of Cammy or just a random girl who happens to have long blond braids too.





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"Latest Junk" , posted Thu 22 Apr 01:50post reply

Intros, endings, and various rival battles.





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"Re(1):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 22 Apr 02:50:post reply

quote:
Intros, endings, and various rival battles.



Ninja blades?... Oh dear god


Ohhhh... .... If this where to lack image, I would think that is about a Bruce Lee wanna be stomping on a cat.







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Update 21 as of 29/01/10 (Temporary mega upload link).

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[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 22 Apr 03:28]

Just a Person
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"Re(1):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 22 Apr 22:07:post reply

quote:
Intros, endings, and various rival battles.



Wasn't the game supposed to be released just on April 27th? How come all these videos are already in YouTube??

And why am I complaining? I'm gonna watch them right NOW!!! Now I just need to see the Juri OVA (and hope that Chun-Li gets a rematch against her by the end of the OVA).

EDIT: now that I was noticing, this guy/girl did a great job collecting the videos, but some are missing... there is still no videos for Juri's and Gen's prologues and endings, or for Zangief's rival match. From a trailer recently shown, it also seems that Dee Jay and Rufus have an alternative rival match video, where both dance (instead of just Dee Jay) and Dee Jay rubs Rufus's belly (quite funny, may I say).

I hope he/she will finish adding all videos later!





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[this message was edited by Just a Person on Fri 23 Apr 01:07]

Nekros
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"Re(2):Latest Junk" , posted Fri 23 Apr 02:45post reply

quote:

Wasn't the game supposed to be released just on April 27th? How come all these videos are already in YouTube??


Is called piracy.
Apparently, the code of the game is avaiable to illegal download and stuff.

I'm not watching videos, don't want to ruin too much surprises in the game (to me knowing the entire cast is already a sort of spoiler), but I'm listening the ost.
It's different from the techno attracts of the trailers, the old remixes from sf4 are still present but the new ones are very good.
Fei Long is for now my favourite, with Ibuki and Dhalsim...they work very well with SF atmosphere that insert typical country traits in their characters.
Juri theme is horrible. Really, one of the worst musics in the game.





Just a Person
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"Re(3):Latest Junk" , posted Fri 23 Apr 03:27post reply

quote:

I'm not watching videos, don't want to ruin too much surprises in the game (to me knowing the entire cast is already a sort of spoiler), but I'm listening the ost.
It's different from the techno attracts of the trailers, the old remixes from sf4 are still present but the new ones are very good.
Fei Long is for now my favourite, with Ibuki and Dhalsim...they work very well with SF atmosphere that insert typical country traits in their characters.
Juri theme is horrible. Really, one of the worst musics in the game.



Really? That's interesting.

Fei-Long and Dhalsim had no themes in SFIV, correct? Do the characters that had themes in SFIV (like Ryu, Ken, Chun-Li and everyone else) get new remixes for their themes or are they still with the old remixes from vanilla SFIV?

Bad news for Juri; the girl is so devilish, sexy and cool, I expected her to have a really nice theme.





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"Re(3):Latest Junk" , posted Fri 23 Apr 04:42post reply

quote:

Wasn't the game supposed to be released just on April 27th? How come all these videos are already in YouTube??

Is called piracy.
Apparently, the code of the game is avaiable to illegal download and stuff.



This may be true, but also it seems some places are breaking street date.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/apr/21/some-people-able-buy-super-street-fighter-4-early/





shipoopi

KTallguy
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"Re(4):Latest Junk" , posted Fri 23 Apr 10:47post reply

Kind of silly that Ibuki's back story is literally "I finally wanna get shagged". Too bad a lot of the rival stuff is just fluff. But I guess it's better than nothing :)





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"Re(5):Latest Junk" , posted Fri 23 Apr 10:53post reply

I most likely have bad music taste but I like the remix of the Final Fight theme. I found it off one of the members of the shoryuken.com forum doing a combo exhibition for Cody.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th_m1IeP-MU





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"Re(2):Latest Junk" , posted Fri 23 Apr 19:10post reply

quote:



Ohhhh... .... If this where to lack image, I would think that is about a Bruce Lee wanna be stomping on a cat.



forever!

If that version of the game is final, according to these reports of piracy and early releases, it's annoying to see a game with such promise show signs of this this early on...

Then again, I recall someone finding an Kyo infinite soon after KoF98 was released, and the game remained beloved and competitive for years after, we'll see...

Also, I'd rather se Juri get hit with that than most others - something about her design just doesn't click well with me, as if she's trying to be too many things at once, diluting the charm each individua factor might have.





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Nekros
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"Re(4):Latest Junk" , posted Sat 24 Apr 01:36post reply

quote:

Fei-Long and Dhalsim had no themes in SFIV, correct? Do the characters that had themes in SFIV (like Ryu, Ken, Chun-Li and everyone else) get new remixes for their themes or are they still with the old remixes from vanilla SFIV?


All the remixes from SFIV are still present (my favourite is Zangief...followed by Dictator and Chun).
The new remixes are from Super Turbo songs, Zero series and Third Strike.





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"Re(5):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 28 Apr 03:51post reply

So the game is out. Has anyone tried it out? Any thoughts or impressions you would like to share? Hopefully I should get my hands on a copy in a few hours so if you're looking to score some easy wins against a lousy Hakan player I'm your man.

Release day blog update features all the new alt costumes.





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"Re(6):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 28 Apr 04:28post reply

quote:
So the game is out. Has anyone tried it out? Any thoughts or impressions you would like to share? Hopefully I should get my hands on a copy in a few hours so if you're looking to score some easy wins against a lousy Hakan player I'm your man.



Got it earlier this afternoon and so did mbisonhatclub, judging from PSN Evenor and Polly did too! I'm still toying with the new characters and trying to get over the fact that the dashing and jumping is still going to feel awful no matter what. Real impressions coming later!





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"Re(6):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 28 Apr 04:31post reply

quote:
So the game is out. Has anyone tried it out? Any thoughts or impressions you would like to share? Hopefully I should get my hands on a copy in a few hours so if you're looking to score some easy wins against a lousy Hakan player I'm your man.

Release day blog update features all the new alt costumes.



Installing nowwwwwwwww~!

Wait...what's your PSN again? I don't know if I have you or not.

Mine is Lilly_Dopamine if anyone hasn't added me yet and wants to.

I'm gonna need a little warmup time before I'm ready to fight actual people (I don't even remember what button combinations do what), but I'm REALLY looking forward to playing with everyone!





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Ishmael
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"Re(7):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 28 Apr 05:41post reply

quote:
So the game is out. Has anyone tried it out? Any thoughts or impressions you would like to share? Hopefully I should get my hands on a copy in a few hours so if you're looking to score some easy wins against a lousy Hakan player I'm your man.

Release day blog update features all the new alt costumes.


Installing nowwwwwwwww~!

Wait...what's your PSN again? I don't know if I have you or not.

Mine is Lilly_Dopamine if anyone hasn't added me yet and wants to.

I'm gonna need a little warmup time before I'm ready to fight actual people (I don't even remember what button combinations do what), but I'm REALLY looking forward to playing with everyone!

I'm listed on PSN under the unwieldly name of Ishmael26b.

Considering the current online presence of gaming there has to be a better method of sharing ID tags. Could that information be listed on this board in the USER? section of each profile? Huh. Oh, don't mind me, I'm just talking to hear myself talk.





karasu99
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"Re(8):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 28 Apr 07:49post reply

quote:

I'm listed on PSN under the unwieldly name of Ishmael26b.


I'm robotchris on PSN-- not that I am likely to have time to play before the weekend, but I did actually receive the game today. Maybe I will give it a shot later on.

PS: I stink, so I will be an easy win for anyone.





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"Re(8):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 28 Apr 08:59post reply

quote:

Considering the current online presence of gaming there has to be a better method of sharing ID tags. Could that information be listed on this board in the USER? section of each profile? Huh. Oh, don't mind me, I'm just talking to hear myself talk.



I always see PSN and 360 tags located in signatures, so I'm putting my PSN id there.

Like Polly I am planning to do some weeknight shadow-boxing to famliarize myself with everyone, not having played SFIV extensively. I'll try to be around for sparring at American Friday night hours.






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KTallguy
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"Re(9):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 28 Apr 14:09:post reply

God I just got the game today, it's glorious.

Again my JP PSN is Hunter-KT. I'm putting it in my signature.
I'm on during Japan time nights mainly.

Getting used to Ibuki at half speed is kind of hard, but some combos are easier to do. The lag she has on some of her older moves makes it a bit unfortunate, but they buffed other moves to make up for it.

Such a great game. This and Peace Walker... man. Expensive month.





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PSN: Hunter-KT

[this message was edited by KTallguy on Wed 28 Apr 14:14]

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"Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 28 Apr 14:14post reply

Now that all the songs are available for listening to in full, will kofoguz give us a breakdown of all the Turkish nuances in Hakan's theme?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7emozOvUkUg





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"Re(1):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Wed 28 Apr 14:29post reply

I'll join in with everyone sometime next Sunday/Monday ish since I have finals coming up next week.

I will be practicing with Cody so I'll be the residential punching back since everyone will get early practice. Happy gaming folks!





PSN: blitzrush85

Evenor
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"Re(2):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Wed 28 Apr 14:45post reply

It was a tough transition from playing so much BB to SSF4. I am really enjoying the tweaks they gave to Rose and the new characters (specifically T.hawk, Juri, and Hakan) but after a few matches I remembered how much I hated ultras! I work so hard chipping away at life and all I get are sonic hurricanes to the face. I also can't FADC for my life.

I look forward to great endless matches with you fellow mmcafers. My PSN id is missantroop so feel free to add me (as I will do to you)!





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KTallguy
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"Re(3):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Wed 28 Apr 14:59post reply

Once you learn how to FADC, you really gain a lot of mobility. I'm pretty bad at it too, but using FA effectively is really fun.





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hikarutilmitt
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"Re(4):Latestest SSFIV Thread" , posted Wed 28 Apr 15:10post reply

I'll be up for games. I'll be on after 6pm CST or just about all day on weekends. Have both versions, also have BB on PS3 and STHDR on both systems.






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Ishmael
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"Re(9):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 29 Apr 00:24post reply

quote:
PS: I stink, so I will be an easy win for anyone.


I don't think anyone is going to going great guns at this game, although it should be fun anyway.

A few quick thoughts after playing the game for a bit:

The wall of choices I had the first time I looked at the character select screen was a bit overwhelming. Torn between wanting to check out the changes to the returning cast and trying the new additions I was uncertain where to start.

I like that even the returning characters have a new frame or two of animation. The first thing I noticed was that during a throw the mouths of the thrower closes much more smoothly now. It's a small thing but I appreciate the effort.

I also like that the main select screen features Ken and Ryu sharing a tender moment. Those two have nothing on Sol and Ky but I still find it funny to watch those two trying to appeal to Basara fans by taking a few faltering steps into the world of shounen-ai.

It wasn't until I looked at the spiky braclets that she was wearing but I finally realized that Juri is the evil opposite of Chun-Li. Instead of going with a head-swap to create a counterpart Capcom made them differ in as many ways as possible. While Chun-Li is all about rounded curves Juri is lean and full of sharp edges. This contrast can even be seen in the way they wear their hair buns. Even their costumes are flipped- Chun-Li's outfit is puffy at the top but has a high cut to allow her legs as much freedom as possible while Juri's top is barely there but her legs are covered with large chaps. Now I understand why I warmed up to Juri so quickly; not only does she fill the evil chick slot in the SF cast but she's a variation on an already established character.

I'm just rambling at this point. For whatever crazy reason I'm going to try my luck on-line in about 7-8 hours so I hope I'll see a few of you there.





Just a Person
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"Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 29 Apr 01:01post reply

quote:
It wasn't until I looked at the spiky braclets that she was wearing but I finally realized that Juri is the evil opposite of Chun-Li. Instead of going with a head-swap to create a counterpart Capcom made them differ in as many ways as possible. While Chun-Li is all about rounded curves Juri is lean and full of sharp edges. This contrast can even be seen in the way they wear their hair buns. Even their costumes are flipped- Chun-Li's outfit is puffy at the top but has a high cut to allow her legs as much freedom as possible while Juri's top is barely there but her legs are covered with large chaps. Now I understand why I warmed up to Juri so quickly; not only does she fill the evil chick slot in the SF cast but she's a variation on an already established character.


You're right, and there's also the fact that both fight using primarily kicks.

Even their stories have something in common; according to Dictator's SSFIV ending, Shadaloo was responsible for killing Juri's parents (although unlike Chun-Li, Juri was just a child when it happened). Both seek revenge against Shadaloo, but while Chun-Li tries to do so by means of justice, Juri became similar in behavior to the same man that she wants to destroy.

The trailer of her OVA to be released in Japan's deluxe edition of the game shows that both women will fight at some point. I eagerly want to see the full OVA to better understand Juri's background and to see what happened prior to SSFIV.

But she's definitely an interesting character. So is Hakan, BTW.





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karasu99
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"Re(2):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 29 Apr 03:10post reply

I only had a few moments to try out the game yesterday, so I gave Juri and Hakan a try.

I really liked both-- Juri, just because I have warmed to the character design, and because her moveset is pretty fun, and Hakan because he's so totally channeling the World Warrior design aesthetic that it's almost like I can imagine it's 1991 again. Beating the game as Juri unlocked a whole stream of crap that was not especially memorable.

Also, the new backgrounds are pretty sweet, especially the Metro City skyscraper under construction with Andore/Hugo as part of the cheering crew. It did make me wish that Rolento had made the cut though.

And yes, I found the wall of selections daunting too-- much better than in SFIV, though, that is for sure.





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Gojira
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"Re(2):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 29 Apr 03:44post reply

I spent a lot of time on the game yesterday, and I like it, but then I never hated SF4 at all so I didn't really need convincing.

The new characters are interesting, but from earlier reports I thought they'd be stronger than they turned out. Right now I'd say Dudley is definitely good, while the rest of them are kind of a struggle, except maybe Cody. Cody's zonk knuckle has such a short charge time it comes out by mistake a lot when I do a lvl2 FADC or charge a rock throw.

Also, even though I don't believe the idea of reversal ultras is a bad thing, for some reason they decided to make them not work on armor-breaking moves. That is a huge mistake. The small window and obvious miss animation is bad enough without having to worry about which attack I'm reversing.

I find it odd that there seems to be no way to re-watch endings without going through arcade mode again. While this is pretty much how SF had always been prior to SF4, it's kind of weird to feel like I'm playing SF4 but not getting a SF4 feature. Is it just something you have to unlock?

quote:

The trailer of her OVA to be released in Japan's deluxe edition of the game shows that both women will fight at some point. I eagerly want to see the full OVA to better understand Juri's background and to see what happened prior to SSFIV.



Which reminds me, I wonder when the hell Capcom is going to tell us how to get this if we don't live in Japan.





shipoopi

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"Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 29 Apr 04:59post reply

quote:
The first thing I noticed was that during a throw the mouths of the thrower closes much more smoothly now. It's a small thing but I appreciate the effort.



Dhalsim's face was grievously bad in this "small touch dept", because when he'd do moves that would cause his face to puff up/eyes to bug out, they'd stay that way for several frames after the move had completed, and then suddenly snap back to his normal face. I hope they fix that in SSF4.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 29 Apr 05:53post reply

My apologies to anyone and everyone who tried to message me yesterday. I turned the notices off on PSN, thinking it would just stop telling me when people are on and offline, not stop telling me when people were TALKING to me.

Quick notes:

1) Hiroaki? Hiroaki!!

2) The only term I can think of to describe the throw characters in this game is "sick-nasty". I really hate turtling, but that seems to be the only path to victory in some matches.

3) Can't wait to play more! Gotta work for now, though.

4) I see a lot of self-defacing in terms of game skill, but after my limited experience online last night, I can see where it comes from. I was...I would say "humiliated" (at least as far as SF goes) numerous times. I like playing players who are marginally better than me, so that when I do pull out the rare win, it feels like I'm improving...but it's demoralizing to have one person after another clean the floor with your face.





青春謳歌 弱肉強食

mbisonhatclub
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"Re:make" , posted Thu 29 Apr 07:54post reply

My PSN is hadoolket if anyone ever wants to play, I'm so good at this game that I'm sure I'll wreck everyone here no contest, even when I lose it just means I defeated you on an astral level that you cannot understand as a mere human

I'm available for SSF4, Blazblue, Tekken 6, Lost Planet 2 demo (coop), dat Final Fight, and my turn-ons are evil women and my turn-offs are vegetables and my favorite color is bleen

I'm still mildly lukewarm about the SF4 set of games but I'll still play SSF4--it's not a terrible game, but I still find myself yearning for more Blazblue instead, or even KOFXIII. Tekken is also more fun IMO too

FADC seems kind of annoying and for some, pretty useless, and the revenge system makes it really difficult for me to kick a hard opponent's ass but little does he know I've already won anyway because I am like Ghandi on a philosophical level

Showaaa





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"Re(3):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 29 Apr 12:59post reply

quote:
Which reminds me, I wonder when the hell Capcom is going to tell us how to get this if we don't live in Japan.



There is a trailer for it in the American Xbox Live side. So they will most likely sell it via download for both consoles.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 29 Apr 22:03post reply

My PSN is Kusanagi82.
Makoto might be chubbier....but boy she lost weight.....





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karasu99
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"Re(5):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Fri 30 Apr 01:09post reply

I really wish that they would not show things up close in the cut scenes; for instance, what exactly is it that Guy's arms are made of? The illusion of semi-cartoonishness is maintained only when the camera stays a little far back from the character models.

But that is minor-- the game so far is a blast. For some reason I am loving it much more that I did the first time around.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Sun 2 May 22:23post reply

I have it on xbox 360 but beware as playing with me could mean lots and lots of lag. Been playing mainly with Dudley and Guile. Dudley is the most effective character I play with as he has a lot of variety offensively and defensively. He seems to be the least effected from the transition from 3rd strike to ssf4.

Makoto is my playing for fun character (punching balls never gets old) even if I feel like she is a bit undermined in ssf4(at least with my skills with her).

Both new characters haven't yet "clicked" with me. Hakan's oiling up still eludes me as I mostly oil up because thats what the Hakan does. He is a lot of fun to fight with "visually" at least. Juri fares a bit better with me as an effective character at least. She is different enough with her fireballs that I can manage to defeat those who haven't yet been conditioned with fighting her for the time being.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Mon 3 May 06:39post reply

quote:

Makoto is my playing for fun character (punching balls never gets old) even if I feel like she is a bit undermined in ssf4(at least with my skills with her).



I had a lovely 30 loss streak with Makoto the other day, but I keep on trucking! She has so many problems, though...

(rant)

Ultra 1 is good after karakusa (or EX karakusa!) and in a (karakusa) Hayate xx Super combo if you have the level, but otherwise, it comes out a half second too late, has garbage range and is too unreliable as an anti air.

Still, I feel better trying to squeeze in a karakusa and hitting with it than using Ultra 2, which is just wildly unpredictable. It's easy enough to place, especially against projectile spammers, but it frequently doesn't hit right. If it automatically gave you the full hit/animation every time you connected, it would be useful, but as is, there's always that chance that you'll end up hitting, then punching wildly at the air while your opponent hits YOU with an ultra. It's a shame, since I like its versatility more than Ultra 1.

She works fine on characters she can pressure, especially when you get them used to blocking low mid punches and hayates (so you can move in and either throw or chop), but fighting someone like Guile is a nightmare. Throw characters are terrible to deal with as well. I can often wait them out, and middle kick is a godsend against Zangief, but I will always lose against a good Guile player.

I was murdering people with EX karakusa for a while, but now I seem to have a difficult time using in situations where I don't get nailed with a guard-breaking attack.

I have a lot of fun with Makoto, but even if she ends up being high tier in high level play, she seems to be quite gimped when it comes to practical application. I've been doing very well with Cody and Juri at least.





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"Re(8):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Mon 3 May 07:31post reply

quote:
Makoto tips & tricks
Thanks for the notes. I guess I'm not alone with my perception of her.

One thing I found possibly useful in her ssf4 appearance is her focus attack (I'm talking without holding, just pressing MP+MK for a quick lvl-1 attack) has a good range and comes out quick. It's possible to do a karakusa/throw or block strings or EX Oroshi or if feeling risky Ultra1 after dashing. I like using it when I'm jumping in (or using MK axe kick immediately after jumping) and land a bit far (as an alternative to the crouch MP to Hayate). At least it's much better than her command moves for those ranges IMO. The range is a little tiny bit larger than crouch MP (almost the same as standing MK) but if you miss judge and wiff she rolls right into your opponent for a nice big combo.





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"Re(8):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Mon 3 May 11:16post reply

quote:

Makoto is my playing for fun character (punching balls never gets old) even if I feel like she is a bit undermined in ssf4(at least with my skills with her).



Don't feel bad I'm an expert Makoto player on 3rd Strike but for some reason I keep getting my ass kicked whenever I use her on this game. But I keep trying and trying and trying...





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"Re(9):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Mon 3 May 15:22post reply

quote:
Don't feel bad I'm an expert Makoto player on 3rd Strike but for some reason I keep getting my ass kicked whenever I use her on this game. But I keep trying and trying and trying...



I think it's the same as with Ibuki, certain things don't work the same way, and it's almost better to treat them like a new character. For example Ibuki's 風切り uppercut kick is not as tricky anymore, but you can throw a kunai after every iteration of it, so it's kind of better in a way. Also the sliding neck breaker is pretty damn fast and it seems harder to counter than in SF3.





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"Re(9):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Mon 3 May 17:45post reply

quote:

One thing I found possibly useful in her ssf4 appearance is her focus attack (I'm talking without holding, just pressing MP+MK for a quick lvl-1 attack) has a good range and comes out quick. It's possible to do a karakusa/throw or block strings or EX Oroshi or if feeling risky Ultra1 after dashing. I like using it when I'm jumping in (or using MK axe kick immediately after jumping) and land a bit far (as an alternative to the crouch MP to Hayate). At least it's much better than her command moves for those ranges IMO. The range is a little tiny bit larger than crouch MP (almost the same as standing MK) but if you miss judge and wiff she rolls right into your opponent for a nice big combo.



Thanks! I tried this a bit tonight! I mostly used it as an end to a block string, however. If the opponent tended to keep blocking after the second low MP, then I would chop. If they tended to counter, I would FA. Still a little risky, but adds a new trick to the game.

Many many game-winning EX karakusa to Ultras tonight. Also found that her jumping HP has crazy priority (I always just used MK before) and that Forward HPHPHP hits people trying to jump away from close range. I'm sure this is common sense to someone sensible, but it was a pleasant discovery for me.

My question is, is there a way to instant air her tsurugi? I can down-to-upforward (or backward) a hundred times in a row in my sleep in KOF and BlazBlue, but it just doesn't work in this game. The best I can do is upforward to QCB as one solid motion. That makes it come out pretty fast, but it doesn't give me a low-to-the ground hop version that I so desire.





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"Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Mon 3 May 18:47:post reply

quote:

My question is, is there a way to instant air her tsurugi? I can down-to-upforward (or backward) a hundred times in a row in my sleep in KOF and BlazBlue, but it just doesn't work in this game. The best I can do is upforward to QCB as one solid motion. That makes it come out pretty fast, but it doesn't give me a low-to-the ground hop version that I so desire.


I've been having the same problem with all the new characters with air based attacks. I think Capcom did something to their jump timing that makes doing TK motions harder. My trick to pull them off consistently is to negative edge the attacks. Hold the attack button and when you do the motion ending with 7, 8 or 9, hold up a slightly longer than you would and then let go of the attack button. I've been getting TK versions of Juri's (air) 214+K more often that way, should work for Makoto I figure...





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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Tue 4 May 01:57post reply

quote:

My question is, is there a way to instant air her tsurugi? I can down-to-upforward (or backward) a hundred times in a row in my sleep in KOF and BlazBlue, but it just doesn't work in this game. The best I can do is upforward to QCB as one solid motion. That makes it come out pretty fast, but it doesn't give me a low-to-the ground hop version that I so desire.

I've been having the same problem with all the new characters with air based attacks. I think Capcom did something to their jump timing that makes doing TK motions harder. My trick to pull them off consistently is to negative edge the attacks. Hold the attack button and when you do the motion ending with 7, 8 or 9, hold up a slightly longer than you would and then let go of the attack button. I've been getting TK versions of Juri's (air) 214+K more often that way, should work for Makoto I figure...



There are two elements to TK air moves in SF4 that aren't Akuma's air FB.

One is that the input buffering is rather tight.
The other is that most of the dive moves can't be done from a backwards jump (so the standard TK motion doesn't work on them at all). Anecdotal reports say that there is a minimum height for some of these moves, and that Juri's seems oddly more difficult.

As a result, characters like Cammy have to do a slightly odd motion for this: most people seem to have success doing it by 2149+K for Cammy, for example. In SF4, Cammy had no minimum height for hers, which led to odd/interesting combos involving multiple dives where she is barely an inch off the ground.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Tue 4 May 04:55post reply

While I'm enjoying SSF4 there are a few aspects of the way I play that bother me. For now I'll just grumble about grapplers.

First, for the life of me I cannot play Hakan. Has anyone had any luck with this guy? If I can stay oiled up I can surprise people with the range on his hits but most of the time I die pathetically to jump-ins, fireballs and anything else that can keep picking at me from a distance. I should start uploading videos of my losses because some of them are awe-inspiring.

Second, is there any use whatsoever for Zangief's second Ultra? It feels so conditional and awkward that I wonder if it's more trouble than it's worth.

Third, I've found that while T.Hawk may not be a good character he is a strong one. Because of this I can get some solid wins with him. I'm actually playing T.Hawk- what have I become?





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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Tue 4 May 05:26post reply

quote:
While I'm enjoying SSF4 there are a few aspects of the way I play that bother me. For now I'll just grumble about grapplers.

First, for the life of me I cannot play Hakan. Has anyone had any luck with this guy? If I can stay oiled up I can surprise people with the range on his hits but most of the time I die pathetically to jump-ins, fireballs and anything else that can keep picking at me from a distance. I should start uploading videos of my losses because some of them are awe-inspiring.

Second, is there any use whatsoever for Zangief's second Ultra? It feels so conditional and awkward that I wonder if it's more trouble than it's worth.

Third, I've found that while T.Hawk may not be a good character he is a strong one. Because of this I can get some solid wins with him. I'm actually playing T.Hawk- what have I become?


A casino man

My big problem with SF is the fact that it takes a lot of muscle memory not to figure out what you need to do, but to actually execute what you need to do. Combos have become an inherent nature of fighting games so it's only natural that you'll get to hit extra times after one hit, but with SF, you're a pro not because you know what to do with the combos and setups, but because you "get the timing right" with one-frame links/cancels and be really precise not with your technique but with the input because there is no input buffering outside of two-in-ones, and this never really enforced non-mashing because at the arcades I constantly saw people mashing things even harder just to make sure their attacks came out, and it was still 50-50. I hear excuses like "MY THING DIDN'T COME OUT" as to why they lost and when I know someone could have beat me but only simply dropped a combo and I just took advantage of the hole in their fuck-up, the victory seems kind of empty

When playing something like Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Melty Blood or something else, this isn't really a big issue, when I execute something, more often than not it gets executed, but if what I performed was a bad idea in the first place, it's going to be punishable and that's a strategic fault, not an error of execution fault

In spite of such, there's a lot of characters who have to be worked even harder since they don't have the ease of Ryu, Ken, or Sagat with zoning or getting their attacks to hit and you might have to give up aiming for things that require more precision on execution, but forsaking the harder to execute stuff, at the end of the match you are only left with thinking that you could have scored the victory only if execution wasn't a problem

Makoto for instance has a lot of decent things despite being nerfed when it comes to the SSF4 engine, but it takes a lot of management of the hands to make sure it comes out--a lot of FADC tricks and karakusa setups and fukiage followups mainly, and she can still be easily stuffed because she can be outzoned to keep her from getting a chance to put those techniques into play simply because the timing is very critical with her as opposed to Ken or Sagat

Speaking of execution, I hate shortcuts and wish I could turn them off





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"Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Tue 4 May 07:21post reply

I agree that the execution barrier should simply not be there. No matter how laggy BBCT matches have gotten I've usually been able to execute plans as desired. Of course, as you said they're often really bad plans and I eat shit for it but at least there's no "god damn it, I would have had it if that move came out."

On the upside, the barrier feels lower. The goofy-ass links are still there but I find it much easier to make the things I want to happen happen with FADC now. I didn't play enough SF4 to really criticize the nuts and bolts of the gameplay and what has changed, but I am enjoying this game a great deal more for what it is. I'm happy with the new character choices, the UI has been fixed up a bit, the new backgrounds are excellent and all of that. It feels more like a complete game to me, which is more than I felt about SF4 I guess. When BBCS comes out I'll probably shelve it but in the meantime this is great fun.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Tue 4 May 09:09:post reply

EDIT: Thank you for the advice on instant air attacks. It's not clicking with me at all, but I'll keep working at it.

quote:

First, for the life of me I cannot play Hakan. Has anyone had any luck with this guy?



His slide goes under projectiles quite nicely and guarantees you an oiling afterward. He's actually quite strong in the air. I think it's his HP that's good? Maybe MP? (only had it done AGAINST me). Also, if people try to jump to avoid getting thrown on wakeup, his 360 with kick will pull them out of the air.

quote:

When playing something like Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Melty Blood or something else, this isn't really a big issue, when I execute something, more often than not it gets executed, but if what I performed was a bad idea in the first place, it's going to be punishable and that's a strategic fault, not an error of execution fault

In spite of such, there's a lot of characters who have to be worked even harder since they don't have the ease of Ryu, Ken, or Sagat with zoning or getting their attacks to hit and you might have to give up aiming for things that require more precision on execution, but forsaking the harder to execute stuff, at the end of the match you are only left with thinking that you could have scored the victory only if execution wasn't a problem


I just quoted this part, but I pretty much agree with everything you said. This just seems like a step backwards to me...lengthening the already huge gap between beginners and people who devote their life to the pursuit of fighting games. 2D fighters are already elitist enough, with a high enough wall to cross before you can get in. Pros say "it's easy, just spend two hours in training mode every day" or something absurd like that. If you don't think that's fun, then you just don't WANT it enough, because heaven forbid the plebeians enter the world of fighting game Gods.

I've been playing fighting games since Karate Champ. I've never been "good" at even one, but I should hope that I can do anything within reason without feeling like I'm pulling teeth. I don't think BlazBlue is terribly beginner friendly because it has sick sick horrible combos that start from JABS and can be repeated if someone guesses wrong on wakeup. BUUUUT, there's nothing inherently cruel about learning those combos, so I think there's an element of fun in playing around with a forgiving system. Two hours in training mode in BB can feel like an exercise in creativity, not ramming your head into a wall trying to link MP into MP.

I do appreciate the slower-paced fakeout game in SF4, though. I feel like I have to think harder during the fights...come up with a "mental profile" of my opponent and try to prey on their weaknesses. I appreciate the wide array of useful normal attacks and situational strategies as well. For me, it's a great game filled with a lot of irritations.

But more than anything, I just love KOF...hahah.





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[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Tue 4 May 09:11]

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"Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Tue 4 May 10:50post reply

I still don't own a copy of SSF4 today, but from what a played of it, Makoto's axe kick can be done quite low to the ground with a 963214+K motion. I have a sort of odd way of doing it even in 3S, which is to hold 9 for a brief moment and then quickly sweeping the rest of the motion, rather than doing it all in one smooth, evenly-timed motion.

quote:

I just quoted this part, but I pretty much agree with everything you said. This just seems like a step backwards to me...lengthening the already huge gap between beg

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


I think having links is not a bad thing, because having moves that allow for links makes for a wider variety of interesting combos (usually). However, I definitely don't like some of the things they've done for links, especially the chained jabs/shorts losing cancellability. They don't have to look any farther than their own frame data to know that those moves can be linked, and that doing so will result in combos... so why make that part so much more difficult? Maybe they wanted players to drop combos more or something. 3S is one of my favourite games, but most characters have very limited comboing ability that is accessible to casual players. Being able to combo things because "they look like/feel like they should combo" through links is a good feeling.

But having really easy combos that do enough damage for players to get by at a lower level of play is important. Not everybody has time to practice combos, and not everybody has the inclination to. Guilty Gear is full of mashable combos and easy blockstrings that might not be great, but are a heckuva lot better than just single hits. However, the real stuff, the stuff that you need at a competitive level, far outstrips what can be achieved through randomly doing gatlings while twirling the stick. Combos are already a big enough part of the game that a player without comboing ability is severely handicapped against a player with comboing ability; trying to keep things "balanced" at lower levels of play by having few chain combos and a reliance on 2-in-1s seems kind of weak.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Tue 4 May 22:32post reply

quote:
His slide goes under projectiles quite nicely and guarantees you an oiling afterward. He's actually quite strong in the air. I think it's his HP that's good? Maybe MP? (only had it done AGAINST me). Also, if people try to jump to avoid getting thrown on wakeup, his 360 with kick will pull them out of the air.


I finally realized my primary problem with Hakan is that I've been thinking about him as a grappler. But with his oil management issues and all the weird stuff he can do depending on how greasy he is Hakan is more in line with a technical character like Gen. As soon as I start approaching him with that mind-set I might do better. I will also probably do better if I learn to stop sucking horribly every time I play him but that will hopefully come with practice.

quote:
But having really easy combos that do enough damage for players to get by at a lower level of play is important. Not everybody has time to practice combos, and not everybody has the inclination to. Guilty Gear is full of mashable combos and easy blockstrings that might not be great, but are a heckuva lot better than just single hits. However, the real stuff, the stuff that you need at a competitive level, far outstrips what can be achieved through randomly doing gatlings while twirling the stick. Combos are already a big enough part of the game that a player without comboing ability is severely handicapped against a player with comboing ability; trying to keep things "balanced" at lower levels of play by having few chain combos and a reliance on 2-in-1s seems kind of weak.

But isn't that just combo inflation? A player may get to hit more buttons in GG but there's still that split in levels between what a new player and a player who treats the game like it's their religion can do.

For that matter, what fighting game doesn't feature similar tiers of playability? As far as I can tell the gradient in SF4 only seems so much steeper is because it stripped away the combos, helper characters and other pieces of extraneous flash that other fighting games use to give the illusion of accessibility.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Tue 4 May 23:28post reply

The fact that oiled up Hakan can slide left or right while charging a focus attack seemed very interesting to me! Did I read that on this thread? I don't know! I'm on a phone!

He's one of the most interesting SF characters ever, I think. I look forward to learning him with all of you~





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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 5 May 00:22post reply

quote:
Pros say "it's easy, just spend two hours in training mode every day" or something absurd like that. If you don't think that's fun, then you just don't WANT it enough, because heaven forbid the plebeians enter the world of fighting game Gods.
I read some serious Viper player bitching on how one of her advance technique or cancel or whatever have been done easier to perform, and that has "ruined the character". True story.

quote:
Third, I've found that while T.Hawk may not be a good character he is a strong one. Because of this I can get some solid wins with him. I'm actually playing T.Hawk- what have I become?
Someone who enjoys the ancient Mexican art of Plane Mimicking. I miss the day of playing with friends in the same room, because whenever someone won with T.Hawk, we would always try to imitate his awesome stance and see who would manage to remain serious the longest. Also, he's pretty good in SSF4, so these winning moments should become even more plentiful.

Also, Hakan is easily understood if you put him that way: he is one of the best characters of the game when oiled, and the worst character of the game without. So the key is to learn how to use him effectively when oiled, and how to remain oiled as long as possible. The very rare fights I managed to win were a succession of opponent down => weak oiling up => opponent down and so on. if you have an opportunity to oil up, it's always wise to use it, even if you're already oiled up. It can even be good to trade a hit for it (if the hit doesn't start a combo that can end up in an ultra, of course). The only oils you should use are the weak one and the EX (which has projectile invincibility). If you don't have a gauge when someone shoots something at you, either slide or evade on the ground (down + 3 punches, I think?).

Also, Hakan is very good at applying pressure, and weak when the tables turn. Which means you should never let an opponent breathe. Which is not possible, because you should stop as often as possible to oil up. That's the inner contradiction of the character that makes him so awesome to play as, for now.
Higher-level techniques involve moving around while you focus attack (oiled up) and cancelling dashes into normal attacks to cover even more range, but I'm still at the very early stages of the learning curve, so that will have to wait. And I may very well remain there for a long, long time.

All in all, I think Hakan and T Hawk make a great selection of main characters, at least for the beginning. Hakan requires a lot of practice, while Hawk is a no brainer so he's great when you need to rest for a few matches.
I thought I could add Ibuki as a 3rd pal to these two, but she's been too Narutarded for me, unfortunately.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 5 May 03:45post reply

I'm just glad Rose is actually fun now. Soul satellite and comboable soul throw really add a lot to her game. It's fun just coming up with setups for SS like whiffing a soul throw at close range or just walking up and throwing someone when they think they'll get pushed back by SS.

In console SF4, every time someone showed me one of Sakura's crazy links or Cammy's goofy air kick shenanigans or Fei's infinite or Gen's loop or Dan's... Dan-ness, I would look at Rose and cry salty tears of boring shame. She just shouldn't have been in SF4 without this move.

BTW, does Hakan's slide really go under fireballs? Every time I've tried, his legs are usually sticking up so he eats the projectile anyway. Is it just timing?





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"Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 5 May 04:06post reply

quote:
I can tell the gradient in SF4 only seems so much steeper is because it stripped away the combos, helper characters and other pieces of extraneous flash that other fighting games use to give the illusion of accessibility.



That illusion is important!
I think the worst thing for my friends who just play casually is the feeling that they can't do anything. There should always be a divide between those who are well-versed and those who are not, but give them something so that they can feel good about themselves and feel some bit of hope.

It's somewhat difficult to get a good metric on it, but let's put it this way: how many mistakes do you have to force out of your opponent in order to win? In extreme cases like HnK, when players can do combos, it's about 1 if your character's name is Rei or Raoh. In SF4, if a player can't combo it's probably upwards of 10. When that number is extremely disparate between the lower level player and the higher level player in absolute terms (e.g. 2-1 might be a 100% difference for the lesser player, but it's really only one more opportunity), that's when I can see the game becoming extremely not fun for the lower level player. Keeping those numbers at ranges that are sufficiently close/work and "seem fun" matter; SF32I at maximum damage settings means most supers are instant kills and HP/HKs do about 50% of a lifebar... that'll keep things close, but I'm not sure how great of an idea it is. Good for laughs, or when you want to play SamSho but not SamSho, though.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 5 May 04:22post reply

quote:

But isn't that just combo inflation? A player may get to hit more buttons in GG but there's still that split in levels between what a new player and a player who treats the game like it's their religion can do.



In my case at least, I was not arguing that there is not a gap between beginners and experts in BB (or that the gap is small). A rookie will get immediately hammered into a corner, sit through an obnoxiously long combo, get slammed by a pressure string, mess up, sit through another obnoxiously long combo...lose. But there is nothing inherently difficult about those combos, other than their length. When you press a button, or a series of buttons, you (ideally) get what you want.

I'm arguing that SFIV creates a needless and artificial gap that hinders enjoyment of the game. There is a gap in a combo-based game because you have to learn combos. Why is there a gap in SFIV? The game has enough to offer to begin with and enough room for players to grow.


quote:
For that matter, what fighting game doesn't feature similar tiers of playability? As far as I can tell the gradient in SF4 only seems so much steeper is because it stripped away the combos, helper characters and other pieces of extraneous flash that other fighting games use to give the illusion of accessibility.


Sounds like someone needs to go back to Karate Champ!

quote:
I read some serious Viper player bitching on how one of her advance technique or cancel or whatever have been done easier to perform, and that has "ruined the character". True story.


This makes me sick.

quote:
Someone who enjoys the ancient Mexican art of Plane Mimicking. I miss the day of playing with friends in the same room, because whenever someone won with T.Hawk, we would always try to imitate his awesome stance and see who would manage to remain serious the longest.


But this makes me happy. My friends and I have had T.Hawk showdowns ourselves. Great way to get poked in the eye (or boob?).

quote:
BTW, does Hakan's slide really go under fireballs? Every time I've tried, his legs are usually sticking up so he eats the projectile anyway. Is it just timing?


I am not a Hakan expert, but I have definitely done this with HP slide. I can't speak for the timing and it may vary from projectile to projectile (again, I don't use Hakan), but it can be done.





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"Re(8):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 5 May 05:41post reply

quote:

I'm arguing that SFIV creates a needless and artificial gap that hinders enjoyment of the game. There is a gap in a combo-based game because you have to learn combos. Why is there a gap in SFIV? The game has enough to offer to begin with and enough room for players to grow.



I really disagree with this. It usually takes only a few weeks for the best and most effective combos to get discovered, and once that happens matches at all but the lowest skill levels start to become extremely repetitive. By adding a skill requirement so hefty that even pros mess up their combos semi-regularly, SF4 decreases repetition, makes matches more interesting by increasing both risk and reward for combos, and generally encourages beginners to learn to play in their own way (by making it more difficult to imitate other players).

I also feel that links in SF4 are no different in terms of skill than parrying was in SF3; they both can be dabbled in relatively early, but take a while and actual game experience to come into their own.





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"Re(9):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 5 May 09:47post reply

quote:

I also feel that links in SF4 are no different in terms of skill than parrying was in SF3; they both can be dabbled in relatively early, but take a while and actual game experience to come into their own.



Huh, now that you mention it, they are pretty similar, aren't they?

- takes a lot of skill to do consistently and correctly
- will not really affect low-level gameplay (for shits and giggles), but pretty much mandatory if you really want to be competitive
- if you mess up, you can get a faceful of fist
- if you aren't good enough, you will mess up a lot






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"Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 5 May 10:15post reply

I am really enjoying playing online. I just invite everybody to an endless battle room and we duke it out 1 by 1.

Ibuki is really great when she gets started, but I've had some trouble cracking really defensive players. I have to be really tricky, and then execute correctly. It's fun threading that needle.

I'm kind of happy because although the new characters are strong, the older characters can still hold their own. I was playing a Ryu last night and lost a lot. But the matches were close, and his ultra fireball link damage has been nerfed, so I really have no one to blame but myself for the losses.





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"Re(9):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Wed 5 May 14:38post reply

Quick questions...

Psycho Punisher is a top-down, right? Can it hit in the air? I've had the best luck doing jumping attacks on it, but I have a feeling there's going to come a time when Vega players get creative enough to prevent me from doing that. Is there a better way to deal with it?

Also, what is the best thing to do against a Cammy player that does instant air cannon strikes into low LK, LP into instant air cannon strikes into low LK, LP into...

quote:

I really disagree with this. It usually takes only a few weeks for the best and most effective combos to get discovered, and once that happens matches at all but the lowest skill levels start to become extremely repetitive. By adding a skill requirement so hefty that even pros mess up their combos semi-regularly, SF4 decreases repetition, makes matches more interesting by increasing both risk and reward for combos, and generally encourages beginners to learn to play in their own way (by making it more difficult to imitate other players).



I agree with your line of logic, but not necessarily your conclusion. That is to say that I don't think that matches would become repetitive without the addition of prohibitively high-level techniques. However, I have spent my entire life on the "lowest skill level", so maybe your assertion applies to me as well and I just don't know any better.

That is to say, since I will continue to play lowest-level matches because I am either incapable or unwilling to learn advanced tactics, I will continue to operate under a mistaken sense of freedom and variety, while high level players enjoy an actual sense of freedom and variety thanks to prohibitively difficult techniques. Only when I am matched against a high-level player and I want to smash my console in two will the illusion be shattered.





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mbisonhatclub
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"Re(9):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 6 May 02:03:post reply

quote:
I really disagree with this. It usually takes only a few weeks for the best and most effective combos to get discovered, and once that happens matches at all but the lowest skill levels start to become extremely repetitive. By adding a skill requirement so hefty that even pros mess up their combos semi-regularly, SF4 decreases repetition, makes matches more interesting by increasing both risk and reward for combos, and generally encourages beginners to learn to play in their own way (by making it more difficult to imitate other players).

~Pros~ drop combos (among other strategies) in many games unless they're extremely Japanese/Korean (read: tightest supeliolest execution/timing ever); basically, anyone who has extreme muscle memory and rhythmic control, except for when it comes to online as online is...well, you should understand online play by now, it can't be taken seriously

This is like saying mind games are exclusive to Street Fighter (I've seriously had people tell me this) as if ~mind games~ weren't an intrinsic part in many competitive games like this

And while you say there is "playing your own way" as each person develops his confidence in his execution and his timing ability that proverbial skill gap is going to close and the similarities in playstyles will be more apparent IN ANY FIGHTING GAME. EVEN SHAQ FU. OR TIME SLAUGHTER. DREG DREG.

This is due in part to the mechanical limitations of each game that limit (and provide) opportunities for damaging your opponent that are, no matter how creative you think they might be, are alltogether still static

On the other hand, people still develop their own playstyles in other fighting games as well, but a lot of people will also aim for the most damaging or effective thing they can think of when it comes to tourney play, and from watching only tourney videos and not playing games yourself would you not realize this is the difference between the casual market and tourney market

Though people may consider games like Melty Blood, Arcana Heart, Blazblue and Guilty Gear "combo-an gaems," they're still just as every bit involving other forms of strategy as the next fighting game, but in a different context. Controls are a little more forgiving on timing, but that doesn't mean timing doesn't at all play a part in them, and while people will think of combo games as mashing games just the same, it doesn't mean you can get away with mashing all the time, just like in SF. Except in SF, that half-assed Ken is still going to mash out his ultra in case there's a hole in your combo, but you screw up something in Blazblue, that INFARNO DIVADAH will hit you just the same, so you can't really come out and say SF enforces and rewards non-mashing

I'm not trying to hate on SSF4, in fact I enjoy it like I do the other fighting games (but especially Time Slaughter)





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"Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 6 May 02:53post reply

Iggy's post summed up everything that is great about Hakan. I even like that outside of the EX version Hakan's slide seems to have a weirdly undulating hitbox. At this point I have yet to figure out the conditions for properly getting under a fireball so the tension of seeing if Hakan's feet are going to get hit or not adds brief spikes of drama to even the most basic match.

I also like that T.Hawk makes bird calls during his special moves. Why he tweets while ramming his forehead into things is anyone's guess but it seems to make him happy.

quote:
Psycho Punisher is a top-down, right? Can it hit in the air? I've had the best luck doing jumping attacks on it, but I have a feeling there's going to come a time when Vega players get creative enough to prevent me from doing that. Is there a better way to deal with it?

Oddly enough I spent last night trying to Psycho Punish people. I don't think PP activates until it hits the ground so simply jumping into the air seems to be the best way to deal with the move. So while I was able to grab people out of ground based moves a Makoto player beat the ultra by jumping into the air and punching me in the face during the ultra's initial hop phase. I have yet to hear of any good ways to set up a PP but it's a top-down attack so that's worth keeping in mind if there's some way to use the ultra outside of retaliation attacks.





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"Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 6 May 04:15post reply

quote:
That is to say, since I will continue to play lowest-level matches because I am either incapable or unwilling to learn advanced tactics, I will continue to operate under a mistaken sense of freedom and variety, while high level players enjoy an actual sense of freedom and variety thanks to prohibitively difficult techniques. Only when I am matched against a high-level player and I want to smash my console in two will the illusion be shattered.


Or...just keep half-assing/mashing the combos you want until you get used to them (the same way complete beginners would mash d,f+LP repeatedly to get hadoukens out, before actually learning how to do the command properly)

Just to be clear, I'm terrible at links, but I don't really let it bother me and just keep playing.





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"Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 6 May 07:37post reply

quote:

Also, what is the best thing to do against a Cammy player that does instant air cannon strikes into low LK, LP into instant air cannon strikes into low LK, LP into...



I'm going to guess backdash the cannon strike (i.e. immediately after the LP). The first sequence or two of it might leave them too close for you to safely backdash, though.

SF4 is adopting the take of many of the more modern 2D fighters and giving invincibility frames to backdashes.





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"Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 6 May 08:21post reply

quote:
Oddly enough I spent last night trying to Psycho Punish people. I don't think PP activates until it hits the ground so simply jumping into the air seems to be the best way to deal with the move.


Thanks. I think it's used best to counter projectiles, but most Vega players seem to just throw it out randomly. That says to me "nobody knows what this move does." Better players use it as a crossup (you can alter the distance, if you didn't know). That's the next step of playing on someone's ignorance, I suppose.

That reminds me of how practically every Ibuki player starts out the match with the sliding throw. IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK! Please keep trying, though. On the other side of the spectrum, I still have NO CLUE what El Fuerte is EVER doing.


quote:
Or...just keep half-assing/mashing the combos you want until you get used to them (the same way complete beginners would mash d,f+LP repeatedly to get hadoukens out, before actually learning how to do the command properly)

Just to be clear, I'm terrible at links, but I don't really let it bother me and just keep playing.


I think it bugs me because there's this voice in the back of my head reminding me that Capcom touted SFIV as "easier to get into' than other fighters...and it's the only fighter I've played where I've though "I can't do that, and I will never be able to do that" so often.

But I still love the game, and I'm still chugging away at it! And you're right...it wouldn't hurt to try a link here and there. It might click magically someday.

quote:
I'm going to guess backdash the cannon strike (i.e. immediately after the LP). The first sequence or two of it might leave them too close for you to safely backdash, though.


Thank you. Sounds risky, though. Hopefully I won't run into any more high-level Cammys...hahah.


quote:
Though people may consider games like Melty Blood, Arcana Heart, Blazblue and Guilty Gear "combo-an gaems," they're still just as every bit involving other forms of strategy as the next fighting game, but in a different context.


I can see where combos can be a huge turnoff, though. Some of Litchi's stuff (especially in CS) is just beyond ridiculous. It's annoying to sit through! Bang, too (because he's so slow)! Doing 40% off a low jab is bad enough, but slipping up on such a minor thing, then having to sit through that crap, only to mess up on wakeup and sit through that crap again...it's not fun. So it makes sense to me that some people will complain about "combo based" games when a round will consist of 10 seconds of footsies, and the rest, knocking a punching bag around.

I use Hazama in CS, and if you know anything about Hazama, you know he has like...one main combo. After the 4th iteration of that combo in one match, I'm just tired. If I hit a win streak, then it doesn't take long before I don't care if I win or lose anymore. I started learning some of Litchi's meatier combos, but I just thought "I don't want to make people sit through this." I like winning, but I don't like inflicting pain.

So yeah, I'd rather play "mid level" where the combos are flashy, but not gratuitous.

Although I do agree that mind games aren't exclusive to SF...and that combos, however ludicrous, do not indicate a lack of depth.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 6 May 10:07post reply

quote:
That reminds me of how practically every Ibuki player starts out the match with the sliding throw. IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK! Please keep trying, though. On the other side of the spectrum, I still have NO CLUE what El Fuerte is EVER doing.


Haha, but it does work a lot on people right now.
The thing that depresses me the most is that even at point blank, you can neutral jump out of Ibuki's U1. I was playing a guy that knew this, and suddenly all my cool mind games went out the window. That Ultra start up animation gives people a lot of time to react.

quote:
Some of Litchi's stuff (especially in CS) is just beyond ridiculous. It's annoying to sit through! Bang, too (because he's so slow)! Doing 40% off a low jab is bad enough, but slipping up on such a minor thing, then having to sit through that crap, only to mess up on wakeup and sit through that crap again...it's not fun. So it makes sense to me that some people will complain about "combo based" games when a round will consist of 10 seconds of footsies, and the rest, knocking a punching bag around.


You've hit the nail on the head for me. This is why I can't really enjoy Melty Blood or Blazblue. The combos take too long, and a simple crouching jab can start a very long combo. Even Tekken kind of annoys me in this way. In Guilty Gear I primarily used Faust, because this wasn't the case for him (or maybe I just sucked with him too much to know).

I'm impressed with people's ability to bang out those combos, and I don't think they aren't skilled. But even though links are incredibly annoying to do in SF, once you get the weird laggy timing they are OK to perform, and at least they don't take forever to play out.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 6 May 12:29post reply

While this is probably beyond what they wanted to aim for with the focus on accessibility in SF4, it's always nice to turn to see what other games decide about things like combos.

My biggest complaint about the whole tight links vs. potential for mash out DP is that it's ultimately a failure-based mechanic: you don't get the counter-hit DP because of some clever thinking or action on your part. Combo breakers like Bursts aside, combos also have the negative effect of taking control away from one player. And as Polly so despises, in some games this can go on for a long time. Hey, you could be playing AH1, where NON-fatal combos could go on for literally 30s or more. I'm definitely against long BnB combos: a huge combo should be something special, rather than a staple action.

So French Bread, in their infinite wisdom in Gleam of Force, decided to add many, many systems in the hopes of making long BnB combos a risk: not a risk because you might screw it up, but because your opponent can actively do something about it. There are four major actions that can be performed while being hit:
1.) Combo breaker (has two different meter requirements, affects end-of-round judgement in event that round ends without a KO)
2.) Directional influence (player can influence how much they are pushed back with each hit)
3.) Damage reduction (mash buttons to reduce damage of each hit)
4.) Hitstun reduction (press different buttons to reduce hitstun of each hit, but not damage)

So one of the ideals of that system is that a player being subjected to some long, repetitive combo can actually make themselves not get pushed so far away with each hit (which would normally favour the guy doing the combo) while reducing hitstun in an attempt to see their character fall out of the combo and be put into excellent position to counter attack, or simply stop getting hit. Alternatively, they can decide not to risk that and just hit buttons for a reliable damage reduction. If they meet the requirements, they can also try to just do a combo breaker.

Among those requirements for the combo breaker, though, is an "Endurance" gauge. It is and is not a dizzy gauge. Even at 0%, it doesn't mean the end for the player; instead, only particular actions like attacks from behind, counter hits, etc. can cause it to go into a negative state (Heartbreak), wherein the player loses the ability to do a number of actions (notably, combo breaker) and suffers longer hitstun from all attacks.

Unfortunately, balancing all this proved to be a daunting task, and for quite some time, there were plenty of combos discovered that not only overcame the active hitstun reduction mechanic, but could inflict Heartbreak during the course of the combo. I haven't played the latest version of the game, but I still always think about it whenever I think about how a fighting game can approach the fundamental issue of combos.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 6 May 12:44post reply

quote:
While this is probably beyond what they wanted to aim for...-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --

Being able to do something about being combo'd makes a lot more sense than just integrating a very critical yet flawed timing-based system, and MBAA actually gets my vote just for that even if I don't get to play it much competitively (but I did import it for PS2)

Long-winded combos SHOULD mean something besides do this sequence on hit-confirm for more damage and in the future I hope it becomes more oki-based rather than sequential do-this-after-that; even I as a Litchi user find it frustrating and sometimes meaningless to engage in long ass combo sequences. But choosing a followup in a combo sequence should have more meaning as it should matter how the opponent will react to each strike and its followup attempt, just like how real life fights are. But real life fights don't say that I don't execute a punch just because I was a millisecond too early, they just say that maybe my punch won't have as much power if I don't give the time to position correctly.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):Latest Junk" , posted Thu 6 May 14:20post reply

quote:
But real life fights don't say that I don't execute a punch just because I was a millisecond too early, they just say that maybe my punch won't have as much power if I don't give the time to position correctly.



The sad truth about this discussion is that we are on the brink of bringing back up the topic of Garouden Breakblow.





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"Daigo teaches Street Fighter on National TV" , posted Tue 11 May 00:50:post reply

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSoBOagftU4#t=03m30s
unfortunately it's in Japanese, but it's pretty self-explanatory



Man, he looks uneasy.
part of a 40 minute show.



Check part 4 for some nice preproduction Juri designs.



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[this message was edited by Professor on Tue 11 May 01:08]

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"Re(1):Daigo teaches Street Fighter on Nationa" , posted Tue 11 May 02:56post reply

It's the musical selection on the title screens that really sells that segment. I wonder how they talked him into filming that since poor Daigo looks like he would rather be doing anything other than explaining controller motions on television.

I've said it before but what an odd life Daigo must have. Most of the time he does his thing in everyday obscurity but because he's good at his hobby he's internationally known. I doubt he ever thought his life would go down the route it has.





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"Re(2):Daigo teaches Street Fighter on Nationa" , posted Tue 11 May 04:06post reply

quote:
I've said it before but what an odd life Daigo must have. Most of the time he does his thing in everyday obscurity but because he's good at his hobby he's internationally known. I doubt he ever thought his life would go down the route it has.


I feel comforted somehow to know that someone can draw quite so much acclaim by being really, really good at Street Fighter. No doubt I would be one of those starstruck fans in the photos at Kotaku if given the opportunity.





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"SSFIV anime - does it exist at all???" , posted Tue 11 May 06:19post reply

Even though it was announced as a bonus only for the Japanese collectors edition, I was expecting this OVA to be spread worldwide over the Internet in few days after the game was released; yet, not only the anime hasn't leaked, but there isn't a single detail in any website regarding the plot of this anime, apart from what Capcom itself had previously announced.

Was this OVA canceled even for the Japanese collectors edition? In case it wasn't, has anyone here managed to watch it??





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""Arranged" Soundtrack BS" , posted Sat 15 May 10:59post reply

So far, I've been pleased with SSFIV except for one aspect. You can unlock an "Arranged" soundtrack mode which lets you hear the "theme" of your opponent, but it only works online. I'm upset at this because I was hoping it would be extended to all game modes (ex: if I was playing arcade mode and fought Cammy during a regular fight, I would hear her BGM theme as if I was fighter her as a rival). Small thing, but it's annoying.






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"Re(1):" , posted Sat 15 May 11:36post reply

quote:
So far, I've been pleased with SSFIV except for one aspect. You can unlock an "Arranged" soundtrack mode which lets you hear the "theme" of your opponent, but it only works online. I'm upset at this because I was hoping it would be extended to all game modes (ex: if I was playing arcade mode and fought Cammy during a regular fight, I would hear her BGM theme as if I was fighter her as a rival). Small thing, but it's annoying.

It works with Versus too but it only plays the theme of player 2 ALWAYS, not random based nor even challenger/champion based. Chun-li's Theme is stuck in my head after having a 4 hour play session. Annoying as hell.

I wish capcom would release a very simple patch to fix this and add a gallery/movies option.





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"O. Seth" , posted Sat 15 May 17:49post reply

Interesting at first but then it turns into bickering so don't go too far down the thread ok.





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