| Original message (6911 Views )
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| |  "Re(2):Fighting Game Thread Summer 2018" , posted Tue 15 May 04:17:  
quote:
Thanks for this report on EVO Japan Professor, but I have a question; did anyone expect to make money off this thing? While the loss is jaw dropping when you first see it the people who were running this event must have known for months how the event was going to turn out. Was Evo Japan always considered a loss-leader or was the only reason it was held was because the contracts were already signed? If the powers that be switched up to a larger venue it suggests they were fine with the outcome but since half of the decision making process in the game industry is a baffling mystery it's hard to say.
This is the best thing to come out of this game this year.
This is an abomination so I approve.
I'm sure the organizers knew they were going to be in for the red since it's their first time, but I question whether they were expecting to get hit with such a huge loss. My own guess is that by the time they realized how much they were bleeding, it was too late to turn back and needed to keep going forward in hopes that some sponsors would come to rescue them.
However it's always been questionable whether there'd be traditional Japanese companies that would want to relate themselves to fighting games. And I think this EVO Japan might've answered that.
Venue costs just CAN'T be the main reason behind their loss. The Akiba UDX and Sunshine City venue together probably didn't count for even a tenth of their red ink. I think the biggest mistake they might've made, my guess, is they probably didn't have an executive from their company looking over the operation at all times to see if unnessesary money was being spent. They hired a freelance writer as the event CEO; he might've had connections to the various fighting game communities, but it's questionable whether he had budget management skills. He isn't known for event organizing skills either.
When plans keep on rapidly changing even up to a month or so before the event, that's a bad sign. If charging companies double the price of JAEPO for booths isn't helping offset costs, that's a bad sign. If you end up with a tournament that gets ridiculed as the "Cup Noodle cup" because of the singular advertisement presence for Nisshin all over the place and even on the microphone, that's a bad sign.
Plain and simple, it might've been a good tournament, but it was bad business management.
[this message was edited by Professor on Tue 15 May 06:21] |
| PSN: robotchris
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| "Re(4):Go, go, Street Fighters" , posted Fri 18 May 02:03
quote:
I think it's more a problem with the fact that the game has been made up of 90% masked characters so they probably didn't think they would ever need to rig up facial expressions. Oops on them.
Yeah, plus it's mobile, which might have something to do with it? Still, it's super disconcerting.
quote:
It also seems that Lipsynching doesn't exist in the world of Power Rangers.
Haha, totally! I mean, I know that not every player will notice these things, but it's touches like that that make a difference between a half-baked cash in game and one that looks like the people making it cared about it a little bit. I also notice that there seem to be weird delays in some of the moves, but who knows what that could mean.
I dunno, this could have been a kinda cool crossover idea like Tatsunoko vs Capcom but instead it seems awfully cheap and bland. I'm also admittedly not the best person to talk about it since I'm hardly invested in the Power Rangers end of things.
You have to carefully reproduce the world of "Castlevania" in the solemn atmosphere.
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| | "Re(2):Cody and the Blowfish" , posted Mon 28 May 15:22
quote:
Curious what his move names are now. Nice Stone? Citizen Kick? Gubernatorial Upper?
Capcom-Unity's Cody reveal news post mentions some move names.
Ruffian Kick and Zonk Knuckle remain. Criminal Upper has been replaced by a new projectile move, Tornado Sweep. His Criminal Upper-like super is Criminal Punisher.
Bad Stone is gone, but his VT2 keeps a nod to it with the new move Bean Ball. However Bean Ball is a vertical toss that is meant to be followed up with a pipe swing (Gentle Swing or Gentle Upper Swing). Bad Spray is apparently gone.
His knife is his VT1 (Sidearm). He can throw it (no name given), either straight or as an anti-air. After he throws it, rather than having to pick it up, he apparently can just pull out another knife. Rapid Fire is his multi-slash with the knife. VT2 (Dirty Coach) is his pipe.
His V-Skill is Double Kick, his jumping spin kick from Final Fight. Both V-Triggers are two bars.
Some possibly interesting bits for Cody's moves:
Cody does not automatically lose his weapon after his V-Trigger ends. He gets at least one more attack with it, losing it only after hitting his opponent again (even if the opponent blocks), or when he throws it again (in the case of the knife.)
VT1 increases the range on his normal punches (which become knife attacks), while VT2 increases the range of his HP.
Cody loses his Tornado Sweep when using VT2. In exchange, he gets to cancel more moves into Gentle Swing.
The timing of the Gentle Swing follow-up to Bean Ball affects the path of the projectile, resulting in three possibilities: a multi-hit straight shot, a slight upward arc, or rolling towards their feet.
Also, two of Cody's costumes get alternate forms. His Nostalgia (SFA/SF4 jailbird Cody) can be switched to a tank-top. His retro Final Fight costume can be switched apparently for a damaged form?
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(7):Cody and the Delayed Collection" , posted Wed 30 May 14:25
Humm. Scenario-wise, I like the idea of progression in Cody's personality (and age), just like Sakura's, but that design and move set don't do too much for me. Why not just have it be Haggar?
Meanwhile, we interrupt this cruel abandonment of the dedicated SFV thread in favor of this general thread to remind you the SF 30th Anniversary Collection is out in the States and might be pretty good, even if the training modes and other things seem stubbornly limited just to maintain the "arcade version" schtick. I'm more worried about the quality of online play, which is half the point. If it sucks, I will gladly risk the ban hammer just to start a long-overdue MMCafe Fightcade thread to arrange actual online play.
Speaking of tragic misses like Cody, the Japanese version's release date has sort of progressed from "unknown" to "fall 2018," presumably to give them a chance to create the same sort of game from scratch after the entire country started yelling at Capcom Japan for the idiotic idea of trying to sell a retro-nostalgia product containing only the English versions. But where will they get the funds? Feel free to join me and Professor in our never-ending speculations on the actual release date! Options include 1) never 2) next console generation 3) when Street Fighter is profitable again never.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| "Re(8):Cody and the Delayed Collection" , posted Wed 30 May 14:42
quote:
Humm. Scenario-wise, I like the idea of progression in Cody's personality (and age), just like Sakura's, but that design and move set don't do too much for me. Why not just have it be Haggar?
Meanwhile, we interrupt this cruel abandonment of the dedicated SFV thread in favor of this general thread to remind you the SF 30th Anniversary Collection is out in the States and might be pretty good, even if the training modes and other things seem stubbornly limited just to maintain the "arcade version" schtick. I'm more worried about the quality of online play, which is half the point. If it sucks, I will gladly risk the ban hammer just to start a long-overdue MMCafe Fightcade thread to arrange actual online play.
Speaking of tragic misses like Cody, the Japanese version's release date has sort of progressed from "unknown" to "fall 2018," presumably to give them a chance to create the same sort of game from scratch after the entire country started yelling at Capcom Japan for the idiotic idea of trying to sell a retro-nostalgia product containing only the English versions. But where will they get the funds? Feel free to join me and Professor in our never-ending speculations on the actual release date! Options include 1) never 2) next con
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
I got a couple of games in with 3rd Strike and I did experience some lag. I am unsure if it was lag switching though since it was happening at the end of the round most of the time.
All the art the have in there is amazing. Unfortunately it is missing crossover games that still have "Street Fighter" in the branding (X-men/Marvel vs Street Fighter, Street Fighter x Tekken) I wish there was a bit more for Street Fighter V notes like season releases and some assets from there. There is a high quality drawing of SF2 Ryu's shoryuken and Chun-Li's forward jump that make me wonder if all of it is available and why it wasn't used (or heavily referenced) for that SF2 HD disaster from 10 years ago.
People have been pointing out things here and there that need addressing. The one that I have been noticing a lot if when you unpause the game it doesn't register and held input. Like if I want to be holding back to block, you have to push back after unpausing, if you don't you just stand there. I don't think I have ever seen that before.
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| | "Rage of the Dragons" , posted Thu 31 May 13:10
Cyberfanatix just posted an interesting piece about Rage of the Dragons.
Also, about the current rights of ROTD...
quote:
Currently the rights of the Rage of the Dragons are in limbo, so to speak. Basically they are divided in half, so that SNK has the name, EVOGA the characters, EVOGA has the concept, SNK the programming … if some project could be done in the future, they should necessarily work together.
To add from the article from what I knew.
Evoga has disappeared for a while. AFAIK, Oda wants to revive it. However, another problem lies ahead. We all know ROTD is a "homage" to Double Dragon since Evoga failed to obtain the rights of Double Dragon from Million at that time. However, Arc System Works has acquired the Technos Library which includes Double Dragon. It may cause a legal hurdle if ArcSys is in the way. If they want to push through, they have to drop the Lee Lewis Brothers and Abobo Abubo with respect to ArcSys.
If they do revive it, they have to rewrite and retcon everything and "hard reboot" the story to avoid in a legal clash with ArcSys. (Thus making Lynn the "de-facto" protagonist in the process)
If ArcSys might agree, I think they'll just replace their "homages" (Lewis Brothers and Abubo) with the real ones (Lee Brothers and Abobo) and add Angel from KOF as a guest character as a "thank you" note.
"Lasciate ogne speranza"
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| | "Re(1):Rage of the Dragons" , posted Sat 2 Jun 00:05
It's great to learn more about ROTD; it was really a great game! I loved its roster: I mean, expies from the DD Lee brothers, a couple hinted to be reincarnations of a demon and an angel, a homage to Alice in Wonderland, a South Korean WRESTLER (instead of the typical taekwondo master like every other South Korean fighter in videogames), a fighter from NORWAY (is there any other character from Norway in any videogame??)... plus my sweetheart Pupa (despite Pupa not being a Brazilian name, she's quite a cool character).
It's a shame that piracy destroyed the possibility of it getting a sequel when the companies involved in it were still available, and now this whole mess of copyrights involving SNK, EVOGA, Noise Factory (isn't it the company that made the Power Instinct games from Matrimelee on?) and Arc System Works makes it even harder to see this series back.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(3):Rage of the Dragons" , posted Sat 2 Jun 01:58:
quote:
It's a shame that piracy destroyed the possibility of it getting a sequel when the companies involved in it were still available, and now this whole mess of copyrights involving SNK, EVOGA, Noise Factory (isn't it the company that made the Power Instinct games from Matrimelee on?) and Arc System Works makes it even harder to see this series back.
It was Atlus who owns Power Instinct (Yes, they still own it until now), but since they care more about SMT/Persona, it gets neglected into oblivion. I just hope Sega (or SNK, if they like to) will revive (and reboot) it.
Noise Factory is the developer of ROTD which unfortunately closed down March of last year.
I guess this is now between SNK, EVOGA (key members are still active, even if EVOGA closed more than a decade ago) and Arc System Works.
"Lasciate ogne speranza"
[this message was edited by Yuki Yagami on Sat 2 Jun 02:00] |
| | "Re(3):Rage of the Dragons" , posted Tue 5 Jun 03:39
quote:
I still remember the "controversy" Dr Baghead started over Cassandra's artwork. Poor guy just could not let that go.
ROTD had some great ideas but was marred by flawed execution. I'd love to see it rebooted sans the pseudo-DD connections with Lynn at the forefront. Maybe put her in as a DLC character with Shingo to round out XIV's already massive roster and give her a special intro with Angel.
While I like Lynn, I don't think she's main character material. I'd say either Pepe or Cassandra would fit better as protagonists, the first one as a conventional fighting game hero, the second one as a more mysterious character trying to figure out who she is (plus, DOA showed us that fanservice can be placed at the forefront). Then again, the involvement with the DD mythology was part of ROTD's appeal, at least to me.
---
Oh, and thanks for the clarification, Yuki! And yes, I agree that some company should revive the Power Instinct series. I guess Arc System Works or a SEGA studio would be more suited than SNK, though - I mean, SNK isn't even reviving its own series like Samurai Shodown or Last Blade, let alone the work from another company.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(4):Rage of the Dragons" , posted Tue 5 Jun 13:50:
quote:
While I like Lynn, I don't think she's main character material. I'd say either Pepe or Cassandra would fit better as protagonists, the first one as a conventional fighting game hero, the second one as a more mysterious character trying to figure out who she is (plus, DOA showed us that fanservice can be placed at the forefront). Then again, the involvement with the DD mythology was part of ROTD's appeal, at least to me.
---
Oh, and thanks for the clarification, Yuki! And yes, I agree that some company should revive the Power Instinct series. I guess Arc System Works or a SEGA studio would be more suited than SNK, though - I mean, SNK isn't even reviving its own series like Samurai Shodown or Last Blade, let alone the work from another company.
How about French Bread doing Power Instinct (Power Instinct in UNI-Style Sprites, anyone)? While waiting for them making a new Melty Blood with UNI-style sprites (though I doubt it since Type Moon has Fate as their milking cow right now)?
---
As for the ROTD "de facto" protagonist. Pepe kinda fits it (like what you said), he also had ties with the Dragon plot and could be the first Mexican protagonist for a fighting game. Lynn, in the other hand, plays the central role. Her grandfather got killed by Johann in a middle of a fight, her struggles to overcome fear and the key in awakening the White Dragon, one of the opposing forces against the Black Dragon, the real antagonist of the game.
I'd say Lynn and Pepe can be co-protagonists, and rivals story-wise (Pupa would be kind of jealous of Lynn (at first) though). Also, they might be the ones featured in promotional materials if SNK revives the series, and also adds it in Hamster's NEOGEO Arcade Archives, instead of the Lee Lewis Brothers (with respect to Arc System Works). (That is, unless SNK creates two random Japanese pretty boys as the new vessels of the Blue and Red Dragons instead.)
EDIT: The prospect of ROTD Characters (minus the Double Dragon "homages") illustrated by Ogura or Hiroaki (if SNK commissions him) could have been interesting though.
"Lasciate ogne speranza"
[this message was edited by Yuki Yagami on Tue 5 Jun 14:07] |
| PSN: Ishmael26b
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| "Re(6):Rage of the Arika" , posted Tue 5 Jun 22:58
Wow, I haven't thought about RotD in a long time.
quote:
I still remember the "controversy" Dr Baghead started over Cassandra's artwork. Poor guy just could not let that go.
Yeesh, I haven't thought about that in some time either. I'm certain it felt important at the time but, wow, what a thing to get worked up about.
Speaking of a lot of work for questionable returns...
quote:
Don't look now, but MMCafe's new favorite fighting game (???), Fighting EX Layer, comes out in a surprisingly large number of countries on June 28! I eagerly await a Steam version, but Maxi will keep me company in the meantime. Will the Eddie Gordo/Tiger Jackson of Soul Calibur continue to delight novices with his mash-friendly antics and improbably romanized name? I aim to find out!
FLEX is, for me, the weirdest release of the year. I admire the determination that is driving the production but this poor game is being sent out to die. The people who claim they want something new in the fighting game scene are just going to go back to complaining about SF5 moments after FLEX hits the shelves. Can a game with overly simple controls and an even more broken version of SFxT's gem system find an audience? Is there enough interest in the EX characters to warrant spinning them off from their SF origins? I don't have any answers but since the game does not have an overpowered Zangief that's constructed of Lego blocks my interest is not that high.
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| PSN: SeizyaStarlight
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| "Rage of the Gears" , posted Sun 17 Jun 02:43
quote:
Cyberfanatix just posted an interesting piece about Rage of the Dragons.
Also, about the current rights of ROTD...
Currently the rights of the Rage of the Dragons are in limbo, so to speak. Basically they are divided in half, so that SNK has the name, EVOGA the characters, EVOGA has the concept, SNK the programming … if some project could be done in the future, they should necessarily work together.
To add from the article from what I knew.
Evoga has disappeared for a while. AFAIK, Oda wants to revive it. However, another problem lies ahead. We all know ROTD is a "homage" to Double Dragon since Evoga failed to obtain the rights of Double Dragon from Million at that time. However, Arc System Works has acquired the Technos Library which includes Double Dragon. It may cause a legal hurdle if ArcSys is in the way. If they want to push through, they have to drop the Lee Lewis Brothers and Abobo Abubo with respect to ArcSys.
If they do revive it, they have to rewrite and retcon everything and "hard reboot" the story to avoid in a legal clash with ArcSys. (Thus making Lynn the "de-facto" protagonist in the process)
If ArcSys might agree, I think they'll just replace their "homages" (Lewis Brothers and Abubo) with the real ones (Lee Brothers and Abobo) and add Angel from KOF as a guest character as a "thank you" note.
Someone tweet to Arc so that we can get a "Rage of the Dragons 2"! I've been wanting this for more than a decade! Even more than "Street Fighter IV" at the time!
Sure, the game is flawed. Sure, the moves aren't original. Sure, the walls are one of the elements that make the game borken. Sure, the visuals are limited even though there are good parts. Sure, the boss has bits of SNK Boss Syndrome. (He's actually easy if you pick a character with a ground projectile because you can bait him into a pattern you'll expose. Just make sure you pay attention to his power bar meter. I can't remember if Ann has the same trait also, as you need to land before you attack the pattern.)
Still, the game is fun. Annie is a cute character even though she's that flawed regarding her mechanics. Well, there's that and the trait of her spending too much time in Prica's and Michette's closets. (Look at "Black/Matrix" if you didn't understand the silly bit.) Oh, that funky ring music! I wish John's Gaudy Punch (rapid punch) had a follow-up attack, but oh well.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Gotta get the edge of soul" , posted Tue 19 Jun 10:15
Whaaaat, an article on Shoryuken.com that isn't a link to a youtube video? I'm as surprised as you are, but the positive trends from this interview with the Soul Calibur VI producer would be surpassed only by a decision to put the Soul Edge song into the game somewhere.
quote:
When we set out to develop SoulCalibur VI, we didn’t want to make something for the sake of the esports community, we wanted to develop something that captured the essence of SoulCalibur.
Sod off, e-sports. Soul Calibur VI is already the best game for being the anti-SFV.
quote:
What we were trying to do, going back to what I mentioned earlier about the essence of SoulCalibur — swinging weapons, freedom, tempo, quick response — merging that with the high level of battle polish from SoulCalibur V, that was the philosophy of SoulCalibur VI.
This is good, since the few unfortunate moments I spent with Soul Calibur IV felt like I was playing underwater, in 100 pounds of armor, covered in molasses.
quote:
the idea of merging the quick, responsive speed of SoulCalibur II and the battle polish of SoulCalibur V, the distance, the spacing, the mind games.
HECK YEAH
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| PSN: SeizyaStarlight
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| "'Fighting EX Layer' report" , posted Mon 2 Jul 19:47
So, I got the standard version of "Fighting EX Layer". Sure, it feels bland regarding the overall presentation. Sure, spending an extra 20 for Hokuto and extra decks doesn't justify the extra moolah. (Why did they not bring back Amano Yuri-san? Money probably.) Sure, its visuals may be outdated.
I still got it anyway because at least Arika tries to take in our input seriously unlike some company I know that rhymes with Gapcom. This might as well be the "Rage of the Dragons II" I search for. The dream may be impossible now. Oh, and if you get economic version, you'll actually pay more.
People say that combos are simple. Maybe it's my skills that have seen better days, but I find them to be tight as in restricted tight, not amazing tight. You can unlock the kumite mode in the training mode. I wish I can provide more details, but I've not played the "EX" games in well over a decade.
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| "Re(1):'Fighting EX Layer' report" , posted Mon 2 Jul 23:32
I've been having a lot of fun with "FEXL" too. I never really played much of the street fighter EX games, so I like it despite my unfamiliarity. I did spring for the more expensive ver but I don't feel like I got much. Hokuto only has like 1 more command normal and one less rekka option than Shirase, and I couldn't discern if there were hidden KOFXIII style "Team DLC secretly have better hitboxes than their free counterparts" sort of deal (which I hope they didn't do). On the visual end of things I do like the character models, I think they did a better job than SFV (Darun looks so good!), but the animations are a little rough, and it's not helped with how attacks don't have hitstop when they connect, which makes some combos a bit more difficult despite how simple they look.
And about the difficulty, I don't necessarily agree that combos are easy. The game is less about modern super long "anything can pretty much combo to anything but it's about which route is most optimal" and more about old school "trying to input a complex super move motion during the short period of a light attack's hitstop" type of deal (more reminiscent of these KOF98 Heavy D combos or that famous James Chen 2-hit combo video). This also figures in the weird juggle system it has too. It's pretty apparent from the rather difficult combo trials mode, which after mostly easy BBTAG one and the pretty much useless one in DBFZ and KOFXIV, is a breath of fresh air.
http://100daysofmegashock.wordpress.com/
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pretzelmotion.com
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| | "Re(2):'Fighting EX Layer' report" , posted Tue 3 Jul 04:31
quote:
I've been having a lot of fun with "FEXL" too. I never really played much of the street fighter EX games, so I like it despite my unfamiliarity. I did spring for the more expensive ver but I don't feel like I got much. Hokuto only has like 1 more command normal and one less rekka option than Shirase, and I couldn't discern if there were hidden KOFXIII style "Team DLC secretly have better hitboxes than their free counterparts" sort of deal (which I hope they didn't do). On the visual end of things I do like the character models, I think they did a better job than SFV (Darun looks so good!), but the animations are a little rough, and it's not helped with how attacks don't have hitstop when they connect, which makes some combos a bit more difficult despite how simple they look.
And about the difficulty, I don't necessarily agree that combos are easy. The game is less about modern super long "anything can pretty much combo to anything but it's about which route is most optimal" and more about old school "trying to input a complex super move motion during the short period of a light attack's hitstop" type of deal (more reminiscent of these KOF98 Heavy D combos or that famous James Chen 2-hit combo video). This also figures in the weird juggle system it has too. It's pretty apparent from the rather difficult combo trials mode, which after mostly easy BBTAG one and the pretty m
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The one thing I've never liked about the SFEX games and FEXL is how the jumping feels. It's somehow... too fast and too high? And yet I don't feel that way about Blanka or claw Vega jumps in traditional SF games.
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| "Re(1):'Fighting EX Layer' report" , posted Tue 3 Jul 12:21
quote:
So, I got the standard version of "Fighting EX Layer". Sure, it feels bland regarding the overall presentation. Sure, spending an extra 20 for Hokuto and extra decks doesn't justify the extra moolah. (Why did they not bring back Amano Yuri-san? Money probably.) Sure, its visuals may be outdated.
I still got it anyway because at least Arika tries to take in our input seriously unlike some company I know that rhymes with Gapcom. This might as well be the "Rage of the Dragons II" I search for. The dream may be impossible now. Oh, and if you get economic version, you'll actually pay more.
People say that combos are simple. Maybe it's my skills that have seen better days, but I find them to be tight as in restricted tight, not amazing tight. You can unlock the kumite mode in the training mode. I wish I can provide more details, but I've not played the "EX" games in well over a decade.
Will this game have a physical release?
Long Live I AM!
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| | "Re(3):Beautiful Battles" , posted Mon 23 Jul 14:19
quote:
Juri's design for this is absolutely baffling.
Sakura's design manages to simultaneously invoke something fans wanted (Sakura as PE teacher) while being TERRIBLY TITILLATING because her bare legs combined with the jacket just covering her groin leaves a lot to the imagination (at least until she does a kick). That one's actually reasonable as a summer outfit.
Falke's is just stupid. But given her implementation in the game gameplaywise and animation-wise maybe that's fitting.
Kolin's is bland but not terrible.
Juri's design is stupid, though not in the way that Falke's is stupid. Juri's is just a normal bad combination of items. It is also annoying that, for a character known for fighting with bare toes, Capcom seems to insist on giving her boots for all her new outfits. Even in the one situation where it would be perfectly normal to be barefoot. (Her story, Christmas, Halloween, and Schoolgirl outfits all have her wearing boots.)
Sakura's is honestly a bit disappointing. Considering Capcom had the guts to aged Sakura, her summer gear is a bit too school-like, even if it is meant to evoke PE teacher instead of student.
I cannot find a better description for Falke's outfit than the one Spoon delivered. It is just stupid. It is bad enough that she appears to be wearing a bath robe. The killer though is the hat... That hat is... Words fail.
I felt Kolin's was bland at first, but honestly the more I look at it (and look at other outfits, the more I like it for its reasonableness. And because she actually looks like Kolin. That latter part shouldn't need to be said, but when her Battle Outfit looks like a bootleg Cammy model and her Nostalgia costume looks like a completely different person?
Menat's is pretty decent. I expected something cat related, considering how willing Capcom was to give her those awkward cat pose animations. I didn't expect a cape based on butterfly wings. Though I don't know if they are supposed to be some more Egyptian insect?
I can easily guess that Kolin will have the option to remove her coat. I guess the question is whether Falke, Juri, or Sakura will have options to remove their tops, and what would the alternate be? Will you be able to strip Sakura to a one-piece? Will Juri end up wearing heavy boots with a bikini? Will Falke have a normal outfit underneath that robe, or some monstrosity? (Assuming any have alternates at all.)
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| | "Re(3):Beautiful Battles" , posted Tue 24 Jul 03:01:
quote:
I like how Juri's swimsuit is essentially her story costume except she took off her pants.
It's not, really. I thought that at first, because I never use her story costume and forgot what it looked like. (I used her battle outfit before her nostalgia costume was released.)
SF5 Juri doesn't have a heavy biker jacket, nor does she wear that kind of heavy boots. When SF5 Juri does wear boots, she wears seemingly flexible thigh highs, not the expensive shoe place equivalent of what a goth girl would buy from the local Salvation Army.
Her default outfit is a skintight body suit with bare toes (presumably for better grip and control, what with her being such a foot-reliant fighter.)
Her story outfit looks designed to be practical for cold weather. She has a fully buttoned fur-lined coat that, while presumably high quality, isn't visually ostentatious. Her unadorned boots are equally functional as a cold weather outfit, a compromise to avoid frost bite. Her story outfit is the outfit of a person who can afford quality, but is secure enough to not care about pomp. She's going to look good, but for herself. It is fully practical protection, and worn as such.
Her battle outfit is a casual outfit, something she can train or fight in, but also relax. Light and flexible, she also returns to bare toes.
Her nostalgia outfit is about as free as her battle outfit. If you go back to USF4, her alternate casual outfit had what appeared to be high-heel flexible slippers, as did another of her outfits. Her "heavy" boots were only ankle-high, worn with stockings. (She did have a very gimmicky USF4 outfit with thigh-high animal boots, even with fake claws. Impractical, but again a gimmick anyway.)
Her Halloween, holiday, and school girl outfits are gimmicks. One could argue that they aren't even "Juri", but rather themed towards shallow perceptions of Juri. Sexy demon Juri, sexy Santa Juri, goth school girl Juri...
Yes, the swim suits are themselves gimmicky. It isn't like Kolin is actually going to wear a heavy coat like a cape when going to the beach, nor is Menat going to wear that get-up on vacation. But there is also a matter of practicality to the swimsuits that isn't necessarily present in the other gimmick outfits. You can imagine Kolin reasonably wearing a white one-piece, while she's not going to dress in her holiday outfit unless Gill orders an Illuminati office Christmas costume party.
And even as impractical as the coat seems, you might can imagine Kolin going to a beach in winter wearing a coat with a bathing suit. And, well, Menat honestly has the kind of playful personality that might actually wear that fancy bathing suit ensemble once or twice. (Falke is Falke. Who knows what she'd decide was reasonable.) But biker bikini Juri? I just don't think it fits her. It feels more like an outfit designed by someone who only knows Juri's SF5 gimmicky outfits (and her unzipped body suit default.)
[this message was edited by Baines on Tue 24 Jul 03:03] |
| | "Re(1):Evo has started..." , posted Thu 2 Aug 01:46
quote:
Or at least the trailers.
New character for DoA6! And it's a dude! See, they meant it when they said their game will be serious this time!
DoA5 was supposed to be serious, and we saw how it turned out (not a bad game at all, but yeah, the fanservice ended up being even bigger than in the previous games), so yeah... I'm a bit skeptical that Team Ninja will keep their promise this time.
But the new guy looks cool, and it's interesting to have a street fighter this time (not to confuse with a Street Fighter, of course). I hope there will be other fighting styles (maybe aikido, hapkido, and so on). Despite all its faults, DoA usually depicts fighting styles quite well.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(8):Evo has ended..." , posted Mon 6 Aug 22:17
quote:
Okay I might play Tekken 7 now that Anna's confirmed (still would rather have had Zafina but I played Anna for several games too) but how does one explain the addition of a Walking Dead character? In terms of crossover potential they're not even the same genre. I'm really confused.
Well, the Final Fantasy guy isn't from the same genre either. And it seems guest characters are the craze now, so...
As for Zafina, hopefully she's one of the three remaining DLC characters to be announced. I can see Julia returning as well, and maybe Bruce or Ganryu. But it would be really interesting if Jun was added and we finally found out where she has been ever since Tekken 3.
Regarding the other news, I'm glad Mi-Na and Astaroth are back for SCVI (and Mi-Na, thanks for teaching me bikinis already existed in your era!), and hoping to see Li Long and Hwang back (though they'll likely be left out in favor of Raphael, Cassandra and so on). Sagat looks cool in SFV, but I still have no opinion about G (but his Q cosplay costume looks nice). And it seems Hitomi and Leifang will be announced soon for DoA6 (both are great characters, so that's good); I just hope Team Ninja doesn't forget Leon this time...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):Re(10):Evo has ended..." , posted Tue 7 Aug 00:26
quote:
It's a shame that the Williams sisters have to suffer the KOF 'never-aging' curse of being forever 20. Tekken 8 could have had them as the angry squabbling grandmas that would make Goketsuji's iconic pair proud.
Well, they have a good excuse, having been in cryogenic sleep for over a decade, and then the very short intervals from T4 to T7 (if I'm not mistaken, the T4, T5 and T6 tournaments happened in the same year).
But yes, it would be nice if Tekken 7 had at least one woman that doesn't look young. Unfortunately, I don't think Michelle and Kunimitsu are returning anytime soon, and as for Jun, Bamco would likely make her look like Jin's sister (and the YOUNGER sister at that) and say it's because she has supernatural genes like the Mishimas or some other lame excuse like that.
(That's, of course, assuming Jun will someday return to the canonical games, rather than being completely replaced with Asuka).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(3):Re(10):Evo has ended..." , posted Tue 7 Aug 07:22
Thanks for the update about... the lack of 14 update, unfortunately.
Sagat is Sagat. I'm yawning so hard. At least his scenario takes an unexpected turn midway through.
G is... something. Like with Q, I'm 100% convinced Capcom will leave it as is and will never explain who or what G is, an alien, a hive mind, or an insane homeless dude. His interactions with everyone else who should know, from Vega to Kolin to Menat, indicates no one has a clue, and wonder whether they should worry or not. At least he has interesting properties, a great music, and he channels his inner Suijasama in his V-skill so that's a plus.
Rose still doesn't have a voice actress. They're really making a point she will never be in this game...
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| | "Re(4):Re(10):Evo has ended..." , posted Tue 7 Aug 14:43
quote:
G is... something. Like with Q, I'm 100% convinced Capcom will leave it as is and will never explain who or what G is, an alien, a hive mind, or an insane homeless dude. His interactions with everyone else who should know, from Vega to Kolin to Menat, indicates no one has a clue, and wonder whether they should worry or not. At least he has interesting properties, a great music, and he channels his inner Suijasama in his V-skill so that's a plus.
Rose still doesn't have a voice actress. They're really making a point she will never be in this game...
G's Story mode even seems to make a point of Capcom not being willing to confirm anything at all about the character. Rose won't confirm or deny Menat's reading of the Tarot card.(*) When Menat loses, she says she lost so fast that she couldn't figure out anything. She can't even decide whether he isn't or is like Dictator.
G is not in SFII Arcade Mode. I figured it was worth checking, since Capcom did sub Laura for Sean in SFIII Arcade and retconned the Final Fight characters into SFI Arcade.
G's SFV Arcade ending could easily be seen as implying that there is something not entirely on the level about G, but it is vague enough that it could be read anywhere from "G is secretly evil" to "G is some force of nature" to "G's eyes are as funky as his moving metal Earth tattoos".
Ultimately, I think I decided that Capcom hasn't actually firmly decided G's story, and are instead keeping their options open. Which in the long run will probably mean we learn nothing else, because we probably won't ever see G again.
(*) Menat's interpretation is wrong. But I don't know if it is wrong because Capcom didn't know what the card meant, or because Capcom is saying that Menat didn't know what the card meant. The former would seem the most likely, but Rose does appear to question Menat's judgement. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Capcom felt Menat's interpretation was wrong, it could be that Rose is questioning Menat making such a judgement without checking first hand to make sure.
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| | "Re(5):Re(10):Evo has ended..." , posted Wed 8 Aug 05:02:
quote:
So, G is the arcade mode's special challenger like Q was in 3rd strike?
I wonder if the trigger to fight him is the same.
It at the least isn't identical. I had to look up Q's trigger, which was to not lose a single round through Stage 8?
Because I wanted the ending and didn't want to waste time, I put SFV Arcade on 1-round Easy. Since it was Easy, I didn't lose a round (so I don't know if that is a requirement), but G interrupted before the fifth match.
For an interesting but largely unimportant detail, due to how Arcade's scoring system works, the addition of the G match actually lowers your potential SFV score by a few thousand points. (In arcade, an opponent's score gets a bonus multiplier based on when you fight them. "New challenger" matches do not increment the multiplier, but the G match still counts towards the number of matches you get to fight in SFV arcade. As a result, your multiplier lags behind, which eventually builds to you being shorted a few thousand points compared to what you'd have gotten before G was added. Of course this is unimportant because Arcade's scores themselves are unimportant.
EDIT:
Went through SFV Arcade with Sagat, and again fought G after the fourth match. I'm wondering if this is actually a fixed battle, one that will always occur in this spot. And if it is, is permanent or will Capcom revert it after some period of time?
If his SFV ending is the same village that is shown in his Story mode, then Sagat has a pretty crappy ending. The SFV ending does mention Sagat overcoming the Satsui no Hado, so I'm guessing it is. Which does beg the question of whether Capcom is setting up tragic Sagat or new super evil Sagat... (Basically, was the evil the raiders, or was it referring to what Sagat might become?)
Capcom did think to make Sagat the boss of Ryu's SF1 Arcade mode. Sagat is wearing the "Classic" Sagat costume available in the current Sagat Fighting Chance loot box. On the other hand, while it makes sense for Ryu to be Sagat's boss in Sagat's SF5 Arcade run, it feels a bit lazy that Capcom didn't give them a different location to fight in.
[this message was edited by Baines on Wed 8 Aug 06:46] |
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| "Re(6):Re(10):Evo has ended..." , posted Wed 8 Aug 10:30
quote:
So, G is the arcade mode's special challenger like Q was in 3rd strike?
I wonder if the trigger to fight him is the same.
It at the least isn't identical. I had to look up Q's trigger, which was to not lose a single round through Stage 8?
Because I wanted the ending and didn't want to waste time, I put SFV Arcade on 1-round Easy. Since it was Easy, I didn't lose a round (so I don't know if that is a requirement), but G interrupted before the fifth match.
For an interesting but largely unimportant detail, due to how Arcade's scoring system works, the addition of the G match actually lowers your potential SFV score by a few thousand points. (In arcade, an opponent's score gets a bonus multiplier based on when you fight them. "New challenger" matches do not increment the multiplier, but the G match still counts towards the number of matches you get to fight in SFV arcade. As a result, your multiplier lags behind, which eventually builds to you being shorted a few thousand points compared to what you'd have gotten before G was added. Of course this is unimportant because Arcade's scores themselves are unimportant.
EDIT:
Went through SFV Arcade with Sagat, and again fought G after the fourth match. I'm wondering if this is actually a fixed battle, one that will always occur in this spot. And if it is, is permanent or will Capcom revert it after some period of time?
If his SFV ending is the same village that is shown in his Story mode, then Sagat
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Did any Cafe member attended EVO this year?
As any cafe member attended EVO and if so, participated in any of the games tournaments?
Long Live I AM!
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| | "Re(1):Re: What a terrible night to have a Bel" , posted Thu 9 Aug 03:25
quote:
I'm not going to go to the trouble to link to the story since it's on every conceivable games news site right now, But Simon and Richter Belmont have been announced as playable fighters in Smash Ultimate, along with Alucard as an assist, a Castlevania stage, and 34 (?) music tracks from the series. Also appearing in some shape or form is Dracula, who I initially thought they had said is playable (but I was wrong and I must have been only half-listening).
I'm not especially interested in Smash but this practically assures I'll pick it up, if only to noodle around with Castlevania stuff.
Also a bunch of other stuff was announced for Smash that I don't really care about.
EDIT: Also, Shovel Knight is an assist, for those who care. I have to wonder how close he came to being playable.
And yet no Dixie Kong in sight... *sigh*
The Belmonts and K.Rool look cool, though.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Smash is this Generation's MVC2!" , posted Thu 9 Aug 20:58:
quote:
On one hand, everything they've shown was fantastic and I can't wait to casually play alone and try to unlock as many things as possible.
On the other... there's so. much. stuff. When does "a lot of content" becomes "too much content"? I'm overwhelmed even as a casual player who doesn't know or care about the rules about the ledges or rage or whatever. Dedicated players must start having anxiety attacks. And they turn 80% of the content off!!!
Well, as demonstrated during Evo, a lot of these people are self-centered lunatics with questionable hygiene, so serves them well.
I don't even play Smash, but somehow I keep buying them lol. I guess so my friends can play? Also they're just good games to know. They have such great presentation and the UI has always been phenomenal! I'm so excited for the new characters though! I mean, they already had me at Ridley but the Belmonts, that's crazy!
I agree with Iggy though, those games have so much content it's a bit intimidating! The fact that they have modes like Smash Tour let you know this is a series that's been iterated on steadily for decades!
Such an insane roster for this upcoming game! I feel like this will be the MVC2 for Gen-Z! And I mean that in the best way possible!
Oh! Speaking of MVC, I recently became acquainted with Katsuya Akimoto via Twitter (I know everyone thinks Twitter is a cesspool, and for good reason, but if you use it right it's amazing!). He was a sprite artist at Capcom during their heyday, then he became their resident expert on Western comics. He was a big fan of American comics and made sure that all their Marvel related stuff was SUPER AUTHENTIC. In interviews Akiman has mentioned that someone on the team used to bring in the latest issues of Marvel stuff and translate it for everyone. Well that someone was Mr Akimoto! He has a special thanks credit on all their Marvel Games and even that Spawn game that everyone forgot about! He currently works as a translator for Marvel in Japan!
An interesting thing that came up recently is that he says he was the one that originally proposed the idea for Darkstalkers! Now in the USA that credit was claimed by Alex Jimenez who says he thought of the idea and all the characters in one sitting (this always seemed a bit fishy to me that one dude overseas, not on any creative team outlined the entire game and it's cast in one hour). But in interviews Akiman has said that someone in Japan had already proposed the idea of Universal Studios classic monsters in a fighting game. That someone was Katsuya Akimoto! Which makes sense given his great love for American pop culture!
Ah waitaminute. OK it occurs to me that what probably happened was that Akimoto proposed the idea for making a Universal Monsters fighting game. They probably contacted Capcom USA who had Alex contact Universal, who turned them down. Then he probably took down some notes on some ideas for original characters and sent that back over. Actually that's exactly as Jimenez Describes in interviews, but over time that has mutated into "Darkstalkers was created by Alex Jimenez!"
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Thu 9 Aug 21:01] |
| | "Re(4):DIE, GUESTS" , posted Fri 10 Aug 00:11
quote:
I think Sakurai said something about the unlocking being made "more fun" this year but maybe I'm confusing it with the previous release?
That would honestly be a bit worrying, as "convenient" can easily trump "more fun" in a game like Smash. Developer ideas of "more fun" run the risk of both being "not fun" and "more inconvenient". Though as long as they don't get rid of multiple options, it might not be bad. (Stuff like "To unlock X, either do Y or do Z.)
Mind, I barely even played Smash 4. It seemed solid enough, and I even got the DLC characters. I just...never played much of it. It certainly didn't help that I no longer meet up with the friends that I played Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl with. Nor did it help that I honestly barely bothered to turn on my Wii U. But it does feel the game has lost something as it has become more bloated, and it just isn't as interesting anymore. I'll probably buy Smash Ultimate, I just don't know if I'll play it.
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| | "Re(4):DIE, GUESTS" , posted Fri 10 Aug 00:15
quote:
It's funny how the more weird guest characters get announced for a series the lower my interest gets. 10 years ago if Castlevania characters had crossed over into anything at all I would have been ecstatic, now I can barely look in the general direction when something like this happens. Guest burnout? I don't know. I feel like the bubble on this whole trend is close to breaking. Or rather, if it doesn't break soon it could be damaging in general.
I had a similar feeling after E3's reveals.
Namco has always been about weird collabs (Gon, Spawn...) so you could argue Nevan is part of this legacy.
But Namco's crossovers have always been a marketing move to generate interest among people who would never have looked at the game otherwise.
Meanwhile, the actual new characters added to their games have become less and less weird, and have been replaced with generally palatable and mass media-friendly handsome fellows. Yes, Kuma, Jack and Voldo are still there, but they are legacy characters from 20 years ago. Other weirder and unappealing picks like Roger have been side-lined, Lizardman is still MIA, and the kung-fu movie legacy of Tekken is put on the back burner as Lei lost all Jackie Chan flair (for good reason I assume) and Wang, Baek and the other minor old guys are replaced by new pretty men and women. The last unconventional character the series received was Bob, 11 years ago. In Soulcalibur, the last unattractive character added (guest aside) was... Astaroth?
Meanwhile, Capcom continues to operate like it's still the 90s, and generates buzz only with their internal art team. The same season brings back legacy weirdo Blanka, adds a brand new weirdo with G, adds legacy attractive people Sakura and Cody, and I'm going to be generous and pretend Falke is a brand new attractive person. Season 2 added super-attractive Menat just after gross weirdo Abigail and before weird old man Zeku. Hell, they even reserve the biggest spotlight of the year for their out-there characters, Abigail and G this year.
SF5 (and Mortal Kombat, for different reasons) aside, I'm trying to remember any new non-conventionally attractive character added to a long-running fighting game series in the last 10 years.
Xanadu in KOF14...?
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| | "Re(5):DIE, GUESTS" , posted Fri 10 Aug 00:44
quote:
It's funny how the more weird guest characters get announced for a series the lower my interest gets. 10 years ago if Castlevania characters had crossed over into anything at all I would have been ecstatic, now I can barely look in the general direction when something like this happens. Guest burnout? I don't know. I feel like the bubble on this whole trend is close to breaking. Or rather, if it doesn't break soon it could be damaging in general.
I had a similar feeling after E3's reveals.
Namco has always been about weird collabs (Gon, Spawn...) so you could argue Nevan is part of this legacy.
But Namco's crossovers have always been a marketing move to generate interest among people who would never have looked at the game otherwise.
Meanwhile, the actual new characters added to their games have become less and less weird, and have been replaced with generally palatable and mass media-friendly handsome fellows. Yes, Kuma, Jack and Voldo are still there, but they are legacy characters from 20 years ago. Other weirder and unappealing picks like Roger have been side-lined, Lizardman is still MIA, and the kung-fu movie legacy of Tekken is put on the back burner as Lei lost all Jackie Chan flair (for good reason I assume) and Wang, Baek and the other minor old guys are replaced by new pretty men and women. The last unconventional character the series received was Bob, 11 years ago. In Soulcalibur, the last unattractive character added (guest aside) was... A
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
I don't feel like Smash Ultimate is bloated in that it's merely fulfilling what the fandom has always screamed for, which is having all the characters from all previous games plus some new additions. I don't know if I'd say guest characters have gotten tiresome so much as they've gotten commonplace.
Gigas is new to Tekken 7 even if everybody forgets he exists in the game! And is largely based on Marduk!
Soul Calibur definitely isn't getting enough new weirdos. I think SC4 got Algol and Dampierre, but Dampierre appeared in a previous game, so he doesn't really count. I don't think any weirdos were introduced in SC5.
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| | "Re(7):It was not by hand I was given flesh..." , posted Fri 10 Aug 02:01
quote:
I don't feel like Smash Ultimate is bloated in that it's merely fulfilling what the fandom has always screamed for, which is having all the characters from all previous games plus some new additions. I don't know if I'd say guest characters have gotten tiresome so much as they've gotten commonplace. It was always joked that this was Masahiro Sakurai's way of saying "Never asked me for anything ever again". On one hand, much of the announced stuff is geared towards tournaments and events like EVO (Final Smash meter instead of a ball, the option to turn off stage hazards in every stage), but on the other though, it's going to be hard for him to surprise us something like a meaty singleplayer campain like the Subspace Emmisary, or intriduce new interesting mode to play. It almost feels like he's trying his darnest to cater to both sides of the spectrum, but I do feel the hardcore Smash crowd (i.e. hardcore Melee players) can sometimes be indeed damaging by preventing the series from further evolving.
I mean, what if the next iteration of Smash played something more like Power Stone?
One of the big strengths of Smash and Tekken is that neither reinvent themselves TOO much from a casual perspective from one edition to the next, and in some cases from the competitive perspective as well. For all that the competitive scene decries the changes since Melee, the changes are still not as radical as the ones SF gets from one numbered edition to the next. I think Tekken is by far the most conservative of the major classic fighting game franchises still going today, and in some ways that is a really good thing, because players don't find their skills getting rendered totally obsolete from one version to the next. Itagaki famously decried Tekken games as all being the same, but there's actually a lot of value to be found in its extreme refinement of the same mechanics... even if it winds up that some of those "refinements" take it into similar problems that Smash did. The complaints sluggishness of movement in T7 echo similar complaints about Smash post-Melee!
I'm hoping that Soul Calibur is good and healthy, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how I perceive the game after having spent a lot of time with Tekken this year. When I played SC2 back then, I didn't even know what difference "8-way run" made, even though it's supposed to be one of the radical new systems between SC1 and SC2!
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
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CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re:It was not by hand I was given publicity" , posted Fri 10 Aug 02:48:
One thing that's nice about the ever-expanding Smash roster is the attention it can give to unloved or forgotten series. Going as far back as the Ice Climbers, there's a fine tradition of Smash acting like a fight promoter or idol producer---"Just do what I say, I'll make you famous, kid!" Now, at last, the criminally underloved (in Japan) Dracula might actually get some real attention for the first time since...Nocture in the Moonlight?! And this fits in with Nobi's point about Smash being the new MvC2...behold, a gigantic smorgasbord of goofy characters to be enjoyed by everyone, with a small roster of viable characters to be used by actual serious people. As someone who can't play tag games that are not Justice Gakuen to save his life, I always appreciated the insane collection of (mostly bad) choices in MvC2 and found 3 to be dreadfully serious and boringly small.
quote:
When I played SC2 back then, I didn't even know what difference "8-way run" made, even though it's supposed to be one of the radical new systems between SC1 and SC2!
Don't worry, Namco didn't either, which is why games after the perfect SC2 had 8-way run but without any tracking attacks or meaningful low attacks that worked, making the whole thing the pointless chanbara it's been since SC3. I scour every SC6 video looking for good 8-way run attacks, hoping against hope...THE SOUL STILL BURNS
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 10 Aug 03:29] |
| | "Re(2):Smash is this Generation's MVC2!" , posted Fri 10 Aug 06:44
quote:
...MvC2...behold, a gigantic smorgasbord of goofy characters to be enjoyed by everyone, with a small roster of viable characters to be used by actual serious people. As someone who can't play tag games that are not Justice Gakuen to save his life, I always appreciated the insane collection of (mostly bad) choices in MvC2 and found 3 to be dreadfully serious and boringly small.
Well, MVC:I certainly isn't the MvC2 of this generation....
quote:
When I played SC2 back then, I didn't even know what difference "8-way run" made, even though it's supposed to be one of the radical new systems between SC1 and SC2! Don't worry, Namco didn't either, which is why games after the perfect SC2 had 8-way run but without any tracking attacks or meaningful low attacks that worked, making the whole thing the pointless chanbara it's been since SC3. I scour every SC6 video looking for good 8-way run attacks, hoping against hope...THE SOUL STILL BURNS
https://8wayrun.com/threads/run-counters-in-scvi.19707/
Maou, do you mean good attacks while performing 8-way run or good low/tracking attacks for stuffing 8-way run?
/ / /
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| | "Only the pretty survive" , posted Fri 10 Aug 06:51
quote:
SF5 (and Mortal Kombat, for different reasons) aside, I'm trying to remember any new non-conventionally attractive character added to a long-running fighting game series in the last 10 years.
Xanadu in KOF14...?
I'm wondering if that is, accidentally or not, a bit of a rigged question?
How many fighting game series even meet the prerequisite conditions? And it starts with arguably the two largest names being excluded?
Licensed games, or games that just pull their roster from previously designed and established characters, have their own considerations. If there are few if any viable non-conventionally attractive characters in the universe, then a fighting game based on that universe isn't really going to have the option in the first place. Further, the characters are already established, and their existing popularity is going to be a large factor in their inclusion. In the case of licensing characters owned by other companies, there may be further restrictions both on roster picks and how characters are to be portrayed.
One other concern is how many fighting games were maintained over the last ten years. For example, Virtua Fighter 5 is 12 years old. R and Final Showdown fall into the ten-year period, but introduce only a single new character. He's a pretty boy, but some acknowledgement deserves to be given for the returnee being the non-conventional Taka-Arashi.
(Not even brought into this is the "beautification" of existing characters, where less conventionally attractive characters get more conventional makeovers.)
So, what do we have left? DOA, Soul Calibur, Tekken, Guilty Gear, Killer Instinct, maybe BlazBlue?
Even if you disallow Killer Instinct's licensed guest stars (Arbiter, RAAM, Rash), even if you disallow the not remotely human characters (Aganos), you still have Kan-Ra and Hisako.
Tekken 7 has Gigas (who might get disqualified for not being human enough), but TTT2 also had Sebastian. Its guest stars have the licensed/pre-existing issues mentioned above, but Tekken 7 did pick characters like Akuma (versus a more conventionally attractive SF character) and Negan.
Soul Calibur depends on the double question of whether you count Soul Calibur IV (it is ten years old) and whether you consider Algol to not be a conventional pretty boy beauty.
Guilty Gear has its own caveats. Do you count or discount Kum Haehyun, as the girl is conventionally attractive but you are effectively playing the muscular old man body suit. Do you count or discount Bedman, who is a conventional pretty boy, but riding around in a bed makes him less attractive.
I haven't kept up with BlazBlue, but as a ten-year old series, then if there is any character that fits, then they'd count. Is there any? Surely there is at least one? ... Wait, Tager. Tager exists, so BlazBlue has at least one character.
DOA, unsurprisingly, fails.
Smash Bros falls into licensed/pre-existing characters issues, but (another ten year old title) Brawl did add Wario. And those Miis in Smash 4 are rather homely.
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| | "Re(1):Only the pretty survive" , posted Fri 10 Aug 08:12
quote:
I haven't kept up with BlazBlue, but as a ten-year old series, then if there is any character that fits, then they'd count. Is there any? Surely there is at least one? ... Wait, Tager. Tager exists, so BlazBlue has at least one character.
Arakune qualifies as well, yes? And I also add Izanami; sure, her face is pretty, but take a look at her limbs (especially at her armpits and the sides of her thighs)... And then, of course, there's her Astral Finish smile.
I was going to mention Skullgirls' Painwheel, but she looks kinda cute without her mask. On the other side, there's Double...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(2):Only the pretty survive" , posted Fri 10 Aug 13:29
quote:
new characters added to their games have become less and less weird, and have been replaced with generally palatable and mass media-friendly handsome fellows.
Proving yet again that Gouketsuji Ichizoku/Power Instinct remains at the cutting edge, two decades later.
quote:
Bedman, who is a conventional pretty boy, but riding around in a bed makes him less attractive
CITATION NEEDED
quote:
Maou, do you mean good attacks while performing 8-way run or good low/tracking attacks for stuffing 8-way run?
Good question! I'm meaning good tracking attacks against 8-way runners, good attacks while 8-way running oneself, and lows (particularly in 8-way run). I don't think I'm imagining this: while we weren't professional gamers or shut-ins, we did play a LOT of SC1 and SC2, probably a collective 1000 hours, so we were pretty good. I'll use my man Nightmare as my example. At the most basic level, I used a combination of his Rook Splitter ( +vertical, overhead, tracking against 8-way runners) with his Axel Kick (trip while 8-way running), together with his  (surprisingly, a punch, a low-recovery knockdown to use in combination with the above), low ground stab ( or  +vertical in 8-way run, I think) and his forward horizontal slash (catches 8-way runners). Between these, there's a great tracking-knockdown game with sweeps in all 8 directions which gets to the core of "rock-paper-scissors in 3D" in SC2.
With SC3, the now-distinct Nightmare and Siegfried had a weak Rook Splitter, no Axel Kick (Siegfried's sad-ass paralyzing kick from his side stance doesn't count), and reduced the horizontal slash's range for catching 8-way runners. His long-time back-stepping +horizontal (low attack), which I noticed in "high-level SCVI play," was always too weak to be an interesting Axel Kick substitute. So in the end, you're left with a whole bunch of mids and blocking: without tracking moves and good 8-way run lows/trips, there's no reason to 8-way run at all other than to avoid someone. You might as well be playing Karate Champ if the lows suck and the 3D movement doesn't work strategically. My long-time sparring partner, whose Talim and Ivy used a similar combination of trips, attacks against 8-way runners, and good moves within 8-way run, ran into similar boredom.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(3):Only the pretty survive" , posted Sat 11 Aug 02:30:
quote:
I'm meaning good tracking attacks against 8-way runners, good attacks while 8-way running oneself, and lows (particularly in 8-way run). I don't think I'm imagining this...
Ah. Okay, so Soul Calibur V was actually infamous for weak movement. Running got you totally wrecked/comboed/destroyed and there was no real reason to try it. Kind of an over-correction, and one of the many issues that game had.
From what I've seen, SC6 is trying to strike something of a balance here. The devs I think have also mentioned SC2 a lot, and in general it looks like there's some sort of conscious effort to get back to the "glory days." But you know, without the step guard.
There are definitely some good tracking moves (Ivy has a ranged low throw that tracks movement very well, which I look forward to using), and there looks to be some counterhit-style effects for catching a run in certain circumstances (may or may not be move specific). But I think they intend for step/run to be pretty useful as well.
I think they're cognizant of all this stuff and they're trying to square all the weird unintentional things that snuck into previous entries in the series. I wonder if they're leaving backdash cancelling in the game (I would prefer they don't if for no other reason than because it looks dumb).
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sat 11 Aug 02:54] |
| | "Re(1):G (-not-Mantle)" , posted Wed 15 Aug 05:07:
quote:
Is nobody going to comment on how G's VT1 allows him to do Omega Rugal's infamous forcefield fireball?
Because once I realized that, I realized I need to stare at all of his kicks to see if he does a genocide cutter anywhere...
Some people have called G kick special a kind of reverse Genocide Cutter. Here's a slow motion hit box video that shows all the versions. The three default strengths start at 6:24, the Presidency Level 2 versions start at 13:14, Max Presidency is at at 17:52:
https://youtu.be/cbLqST0AvnI?t=6m24s
Most of G's moves appear to be based on Q's animations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VivPApIEa5k
What if the real inspiration was just men's fashion: GQ
I had heard that, too, but his dash punches have really quite different poses. His dash straight is an upwards punch (that looks kinda like.. a bolo punch?), and his dash low isn't the swipe that Q's is. He doesn't have Q's overhead punch (since he has the kick), and his normal punches come across as actually being punches. He does have a knife-hand move with standing jab (though he does it at waist level rather than from the top of his head), and his standing strong (?) as well as his command grab reference the gut punch Q does for Deadly Double, but he also does a number of backhand punches which Q does only one of (jumping strong). G's standing medium kick looks kinda like Q's standing roundhouse, but otherwise G's kicks have a lot more grace and poise to them, while Q's mostly look like him just thrusting his leg or even himself at the enemy, sometimes without much care for even his own balance.
Q also doesn't have all the stylish hat adjustments which G does. In fact, Q largely doesn't touch his hat! G on the other hand makes a point of putting his hands and fingers on his hat.
Their command throws are a bit different, too. G does a 2-hit thing that is Deadly Double like in its gut punch followed by the uppercut, but Q's uppercut has him rock backwards for the windup, follow by a wide uppercut stance that is actually oddly graceful for Q. G's uppercut tries to copy the final pose, but it's much stiffer and narrower.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Wed 15 Aug 05:59] |
| | "Re(4):G (-not-Mantle)" , posted Thu 16 Aug 04:05
quote:
The theory is that element of grace was lost with whatever turned G into Q. Assuming Q is G...
But it's not very common for fighting game characters to switch identities, is it? I mean, the only ones I remember now are Ein/Hayate (DoA), K9999/Nameless and Tizoc/King of Dinosaurs (KoF), Sub-Zero I/Noob Saibot (MK)... and that's it.
I'm not criticizing the idea, though; if they're the same person, it would be an interesting way to finally learn more about Q's story (although G is quite mysterious himself).
Before Tizoc/KOD, there was Raiden/Big Bear. Lee Chaolin took on the persona of Violet in Tekken. You could argue Iori/Miss X counts.
In the end, you have a few different version of this idea.
1) You have a person who is just wearing a different outfit, or is in disguise. They are the same person, and any differences are intentional actions. This covers wrestlers presenting different personas (Tizoc, Raiden) as well as characters in disguise.
2) You have a person who is actually changed, whether mentally or physically, into an arguably new being. Noob Saibot is Sub-Zero I, but he isn't really "Sub-Zero" anymore, he is the reanimated wraith of Sub-Zero (or something like that.) Differences here aren't necessarily an intentional act.
3) You have a character that was changed for reasons outside the game's universe. These situations may or may not even bother with an in-story explanation. K9999 becoming Nameless fits this. You could possibly argue that this also covers when a clone or variation of a character gets promoted into a full-blown "has their identity" character, such as Rasetsumaru deriving from Bust Haohmaru.
(Side note: The kind of reverse also exists, characters that are officially the same identity, but they've changed anyway.)
But fighting games tend to not discard a character for too long, returning to what was popular. There just isn't much drive to change a character into a new character, not when you can just keep the old character and create a new one as well. Even if you try to change things up, fans might reject the changes, or you'll go back to the tried and true just to boost interest. (Tekken tried legacy fighters, and even did a time jump, yet you still see the originals showing up time and again. Capcom tried to shake up the SF roster with SFIII, a tactic they haven't tried again.)
Back to G... If G is Q, then he's going to be a #2 situation. Q isn't going to be G just putting on a mask, he'd be a G that is physically and mentally different. Assuming he isn't just a copy of G, or is derived from G at all.
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| | "Re(2):Gut-punch Quarterly" , posted Mon 20 Aug 22:57
quote:
On a change of subject, this may sort of belong to the SNK thread, but it's interesting to see how despite the uprise in e-sports, for at least Japan's SNK scene, there seems to be a huge road split between the casual fans that like their games for the characters and those who like them for competition. The casual scene seems to be growing larger while the competitive scene seems to actually be smaller than the KOF13 era.
I don't know how much of that is actually SNK's fault.
I like various modern fighting games. I like several of SNK's older fighters. I like the KOF characters.
I only recently truly accepted that I simply don't like KOF the game itself. This isn't just an "I don't like game X" situation. I find KOF to be equally unappealing to play as it is to watch, to the point that I rate it below games that I actively do not even like. I feel KOF's game design suffers serious issues at every level, from actual play down to the fundamental levels of what the devs think about when designing it.
KOF started as an entertaining gimmick, a dream collection in a healthy world of fighters. But over time SNK shed the traditional 1v1 games that supported the KOF series. With the loss of supporting titles, character development arguably stagnated for a significant chunk of the roster. SNK never shied away from 100% combos, and KOF becaming increasingly focused on (and somewhat inbred about) its combo mechanics. The team format further stunted some character development, with characters relegated to roles that almost automatically rendered them inferior to others.
And I honestly feel that is more on SNK than me. At some point you have to look at the divides in the audience and accept that maybe it is the product itself that is responsible.
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| | "Re(1):Gut-punch Quarterly" , posted Tue 21 Aug 00:05
quote:
Leaked images of Hitomi, Leifang and Scylla in DoA6.
Now with a trailer!
I practiced karate for some years when I was a kid, and I love to see how most of Hitomi's techniques are accurate in relation to it. And it's nice to see her looking like an actual fighter, strong and serious. Shame that Team Ninja will likely present her in small bikinis shortly after the game is released, just like all the other women in it...
...Oh well, whatever. I hope Leon and Lisa make it to DOA6 as well (since he has been just a bonus fighter ever since DOA4, and she had her fate uncertain in the end of DOA5's Story Mode, where it's not clear if she managed to escape the ship before the explosion or not - I mean, she most likely escaped, but it will be nice to see some confirmation).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(3):Gut-punch Quarterly" , posted Tue 21 Aug 02:56:
quote:
While that sort of thing can only be anecdotal it's still interesting. I wonder if that's because SNK Heroines is creating an upswing in interest from casual players or if SNKH was created specifically because they realized so much of their fanbase wasn't interested in the e-sports side of things?
It's because of two polar movements:
1/ The amount of self-produced SNK merchandises and licensed products to third parties has seen a sudden surge since last year. I can't recall ever seeing so many products since the mid-90s. Aside from the usual cliche items like toy figures, clear files, shirts, posters and coffee cups, they're making odd stuff like ecobags, lolipops and cookies (which I guess is a great idea since some of the fans would love to take a lick or bite of their favorite characters). As of the very recent, I have no idea how SNK managed to get a collaboration with Tokyu Hands because usually, it's the bigger titles that can find their way there, like the Fate series, Idol Master, Monster Strike, etc.
2/ KOF14 is more or less a Windows Vista. It might be better than Windows ME (a la KOF12), but it's still really mediocre. While the KOF13 population migrated to KOF14 on release, many of the players moved off to other games (and no they didn't move back to 13). So the game was only featured at Evo for one year, which didn't help. But even if the game was rated highly amongst the players and they stayed around longer and returned to EVO, it's very likely that it wouldn't have made much difference to casual fans. It's a game where players compete to see who's the best at playing the game system, not the characters. As a result, people mostly use the same few top tier characters in the competitive scene. Casual fans will very rarely see their favorite characters in action-- and when they do, it can end up being a public execution by the top tiers.
[this message was edited by Professor on Tue 21 Aug 03:02] |
| PSN: zonepharaoh
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Wii: n/a
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CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(1):Soul and Discs Burning" , posted Wed 22 Aug 01:02:
While I'll never play it, I feel that the surprising announcement of Windjammers 2 is news that all the Cafe must hear. Even more perplexingly, I see it's a new game by the French company DotEmu, who did the port of the original---was this any good?
quote:
Oh, and Tira's back.
I went through the whole gamut of reactions in about three seconds: first, disappointment that SCVI too would feature the downloadable character racket. Next, annoyance at the return of the worst and least-interesting mainline character in the series, whose "harbigner of death" story unintentionally cooincided with the ruination of the series starting with her debut game, SC3. Then, joy when I realized that, like with most of the duds in SFV season 1, the DLC setup meant I could screen her out of my local play entirely.
Onto more important matters, like recreating Lizard Man in character creator!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Wed 22 Aug 01:03] |
| | "Re(1):Soul Blazing i mean Burning" , posted Wed 22 Aug 02:52
quote:
It's because of two polar movements:
Hmm, that's interesting. I'm not surprised that the audience for the tournament scene is limited. When I watch I find my interest wanes when the characters I like or unusual picks get eliminated. As Baines noted SNK might want to think about a new 1v1 game just to give people something different to look at.
Also, kudos to the people handling SNK's marketing because they have been doing a bang-up job. Athena's vtube channel is going to unite the world.
In other news, Soul Calibur 6 revealed some information about their character creation. Ha ha, you can make a lizard or a squinty skeleton! I love nonsense like this! Oh, and Tira's back. Is the voice director trying to get the flatest and most emotionless line readings possible?
AHEM
If you like me inspected the character creation segment frame by frame because you are a crazy person enthusiast, you will notice that options they clicked on included Human, Outcast, Fallen Angel, Mummy, and Automaton. Does this portend both the appearance of Deprived from Dark Souls, Devil/Angel from Tekken, and YorHa soldiers from Nier Automata?!
The giant colorful afros return is the best news, though
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"Cody and the Blowfish" , posted Mon 28 May 10:53:
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Actually, it's been so hot here until the past week that I couldn't even get an urge to update the tiermaker until recently although EVO was going on (that, and Comiket was happening). 
It's in my lineup for sure. 