Kickstarting games = a trend now. - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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"Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Thu 5 Sep 12:17post reply

And now for another that I'll probably fund, a new Shantae game.


Has this really exploded recently, or is it just that there are more games that capture my interest/are being brought to my attention?






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Lugos
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"Re(1):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Thu 5 Sep 13:05post reply

It's been around for a little while, but it began making headlines last year when Tim Shafer set up his own Kickstarter. Naturally, with its ever expanding exposure, we're going to see more and more forgotten games try to revive themselves through Kickstarter.

It's a fascinating concept, though I'm worried that a couple of high profile debacles may turn people off of it.





HokutoAndy
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"Re(2):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Sat 7 Sep 22:24post reply

Kickstarter is a way for fans to feel socially conected to the creators of the products they consume, it's here to stay.





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"Re(3):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Sun 8 Sep 04:44post reply

quote:
Kickstarter is a way for fans to feel socially conected to the creators of the products they consume, it's here to stay.


Kickstarter is also pretty much free money so it's here to stay. Still, I agree with Lugos that the thrill of it might cool off after a few big projects fall apart. I'm not saying that's going to happen but with more people jumping in every day someone is bound to make a mess eventually.





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"Re(3):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Sun 8 Sep 20:49post reply

quote:
Kickstarter is a way for fans to feel socially conected to the creators of the products they consume, it's here to stay.

To tell you the truth,I hated the idea of kickstarter. It didn't clicked to me as a trustworthy concept. And I always approach to the "Skull Girls" doubtful, the project seemed to me a studio game in disguise of a indie to make it a viral commercial success and excuse for having less characters and sell the restone by one make more profit, (killer instinct making this openly) though I love the game. So kickstarter project of DLC (another abused concept for cash milking) character Squigly, well I thought the target money is overblown amount. So I hated the Kickstarter even more until, well when I see Project Phoenix.

Project Phoenix seems like result of the talented creators got together for an art project without the company sheninagans. So I finally saw its potential and forgive the kickstarter concept, knowing there are and will people try to abuse it.

Ok, since I told you guys what I feel about the concept here is the question. Lets say Project Phoenix is succesful, but how about the rights and license for the future? Who will have the rights to the characters and the IP? If the team has a disagreement and departures happens, how would this affect sequels, new titles or projects involves the characters?





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"Re(4):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Tue 10 Sep 07:00post reply

quote:

Ok, since I told you guys what I feel about the concept here is the question. Lets say Project Phoenix is succesful, but how about the rights and license for the future? Who will have the rights to the characters and the IP? If the team has a disagreement and departures happens, how would this affect sequels, new titles or projects involves the characters?



Why worry about that? If we get one good game out of it, thats good enough. Its like saying I can't become invested in a new band because the musicians might break-up after their first album. You're worried about something that none of us have control over. Furthermore, if Project Phoenix IP were owned by some big name publisher, would you be relieved that the original team quit but another team took over? Sometimes that's worse, right?

Someone else mentioned that Kickstarter is "free money" for folks putting out projects. I agree. You are essentially giving out "donation money" and hoping you get something in return. You just have to be wary of who you are donating. There's already been many bad kickstarter projects out there.





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"Re(5):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Wed 11 Sep 07:06:post reply

Here is a crowdfunding project I can get behind. I got the DC version on a lark last year but my Dreamcast console is seriously ill so I'd prefer to have it for a more recent machine.

Honestly, if anyone likes Turrican, this game is essential.

EDIT: Having said all that, I'm astounded at the amount the want for the ports-- keep in mind this is just an update to a game that exists and is playable, so nothing needs to be built from the ground up. I'll be absolutely shocked if it funds, but it's still a really great game.






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[this message was edited by karasu99 on Wed 11 Sep 07:09]

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"Re(4):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Thu 12 Sep 00:46post reply

quote:
Kickstarter is a way for fans to feel socially conected to the creators of the products they consume, it's here to stay.
To tell you the truth,I hated the idea of kickstarter. It didn't clicked to me as a trustworthy concept. And I always approach to the "Skull Girls" doubtful, the project seemed to me a studio game in disguise of a indie to make it a viral commercial success and excuse for having less characters and sell the restone by one make more profit, (killer instinct making this openly) though I love the game. So kickstarter project of DLC (another abused concept for cash milking) character Squigly, well I thought the target money is overblown amount. So I hated the Kickstarter even more until, well when I see Project Phoenix.

Project Phoenix seems like result of the talented creators got together for an art project without the company sheninagans. So I finally saw its potential and forgive the kickstarter concept, knowing there are and will people try to abuse it.

Ok, since I told you guys what I feel about the concept here is the question. Lets say Project Phoenix is succesful, but how about the rights and license for the future? Who will have the rights to the characters and the IP? If the team has a disagreement and departures happens, how would this affect sequels, new titles or projects involves the characters?



The PP team probably has its own legalities figured out that they haven't posted onto Kickstarter because it's legal jargon. The people working on it are too experienced to enter something like that without something like that nailed down.

On the other hand, the proposition for how the funding of the project works is probably the most outrageously risky thing. If any of you haven't read it, it says this:
"When you think of usual developing fees, USD100,000 is definitely not enough to create a video game. However, as each of our members are professionals in their own field, they do not require a salary right now, and so, are donating their time and effort into developing Project Phoenix. Their reward will come in the fans evaluation of the game and a %-based royalty of all sales. This is the reason why our project will never fail due to lack of finance after we reach our goal. It is possible to release our game with just our developers' work, but there is one cost that we just cannot ignore in order to make the highest quality video game. Our pledge, USD100,000 will be used for one of the best 3D modeling out there. This figure is the most minimum cost required."

In short: nobody gets paid until well after the game ships, and while they might get bags of money, they might also get pocket change. That there is a statement saying that they are banking on their own personal savings to live during the course of the project (who pays for meeting spaces? they are totally reliant on word-of-mouth and internet places being willing to pick up their story because they effectively don't have a marketing budget!) means that they are seriously taking on this project on faith.

It's definitely not a model that many other starving indies can take, and they even say up front that the money used from the Kickstarter will just be used to enhance the project; it'd get done even without it. So if anything, it's the anti-Kickstarter.





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"Re(5):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Thu 12 Sep 18:57post reply

I'd like to kickstart "Dark Souls inspired" 2D metroidvania with multiplayer some time. My dang mainland Chinese Windows OS isn't letting me install Game Maker tho'...





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"Re(6):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Thu 12 Sep 19:33post reply

quote:
I'd like to kickstart "Dark Souls inspired" 2D metroidvania with multiplayer some time. My dang mainland Chinese Windows OS isn't letting me install Game Maker tho'...





Something like this one perhaps? Or this other one?





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"A bag of sour grapes" , posted Fri 13 Sep 03:02post reply

Hooray for Inafune getting to make his fake Rockman game, I guess, but I think moodily on what might've been if this trend had started slightly earlier. I might be co-owner of a still-extant Cinq and funding the further adventures of Kyle Hyde, or maybe reviving what's left of dear Game Arts. Or SNK for that matter.





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"Re(1):A bag of sour grapes" , posted Fri 13 Sep 05:33post reply

quote:
Hooray for Inafune getting to make his fake Rockman game, I guess, but I think moodily on what might've been if this trend had started slightly earlier. I might be co-owner of a still-extant Cinq and funding the further adventures of Kyle Hyde, or maybe reviving what's left of dear Game Arts. Or SNK for that matter.


I'm glad I'm not the only one under-wowed by Mighty No. 9. For me, I never doubted that the money would keep rolling in to the project, since the average reaction seems to be OMGWTF MEGAMAN, let me empty my bank account to back a 2d, sidescrolling action game. It's not that I'm hating on it, I just don't see what people find so unique or fund worthy about this compared to the hundreds of Megaman-inspired games of various levels of homage/ripoff that are being made every day, except OMG INAFUNE.

Anyway, on to less negative pastures! Musing on Maou's idea above, I think the Cafe would have been a better and definitely more conscientious IP-holder of SNK's properties than a company who is rapidly replacing actual videogame releases with Pachislot.






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"Re(2):A bag of sour grapes" , posted Fri 13 Sep 06:56:post reply

quote:
since the average reaction seems to be OMGWTF MEGAMAN, let me empty my bank account to back a 2d, sidescrolling action game.


I was going to say that the average reaction isn't "let me empty my bank account," but rather "let me buy/pre-order this game that I am interested in."

Then I did the math to find the average donation is over $57. Yes, over half of the donations are for the $20 "buy the game" tier, but there are also a good number of people throwing money at the project. Nearly 1300 people donated less than $20, which means they are donating money without even getting the game. Over 4000 people donated $60 to get a box. 232 people donated $500 to get a signed sketch by Inafune. 3 have donated at least $10,000 to get dinner with Inafune.





[this message was edited by Baines on Fri 13 Sep 06:56]

HokutoAndy
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"Re(7):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Fri 13 Sep 15:49post reply

quote:

Something like this one perhaps? Or this other one?



Yup, though more on the Castlevania side. Really I shoulda just said "Castlevania: Symphony of the Night" but with th' following changes
-Stamina meter (like DSouls, Monster Hunter*)
-shield blocks melee attacks (but drains stamina)
-'parry' by attacking incoming attacks. A solid parry costs you less stamina and drains your opponent's.

So when your foe's guard is down (low on stamina) you wail on 'em.

Maaaan, C:SotN sprites are sooo nice!


*I think of Monster Hunter as "Secret of Mana in 3D", so it would also be fun to do a 2D MH project (top-down view)





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"Re(2):A bag of sour grapes" , posted Fri 13 Sep 21:06post reply

quote:
Musing on Maou's idea above, I think the Cafe would have been a better and definitely more conscientious IP-holder of SNK's properties than a company who is rapidly replacing actual videogame releases with Pachislot.



They're learning about Steam, have 1 or 2 3D games in the pipeline and they're having a (foreign) programmer (unofficially?) act as international PR guy, and just today I saw they created a new Facebook hub for the KoF license, while before it was mostly covered in the more specific pages for the phone version of the game - it's a few steps forward compared to past years, so maybe there's reason to be optimistic.

Still, if given a chance to throw money at the whole thing to get more of a say in what's done over there, boy would I take it...





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karasu99
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"Re(8):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Sat 14 Sep 05:21post reply

quote:

Something like this one perhaps? Or this other one?



There's also this, which looks nice even though I haven't played it. $15 as opposed to ??? for a Kickstarter with no particular release date seems like a good deal too. Oh, and then this came out recently and is very good, although it's more on the Rastan side of the genre.






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nobinobita
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"Re(9):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Sat 14 Sep 06:19:post reply

quote:


There's also this, which looks nice even though I haven't played it. $15 as opposed to ??? for a Kickstarter with no particular release date seems like a good deal too. Oh, and then this came out recently and is very good, although it's more on the Rastan side of the genre.



Hehehe that was the first thing I ever funded on Kickstarter ^___^






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Sat 14 Sep 06:19]

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"Re(10):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Sat 14 Sep 11:19post reply

quote:


There's also this, which looks nice even though I haven't played it. $15 as opposed to ??? for a Kickstarter with no particular release date seems like a good deal too. Oh, and then this came out recently and is very good, although it's more on the Rastan side of the genre.



Only thing I have Kickstarted is Barkley 2. I -know- y'all know about Barkley 2, right?





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"Re(2):Re(10):Kickstarting games = a trend now" , posted Sat 14 Sep 14:19post reply

quote:
Only thing I have Kickstarted is Barkley 2. I -know- y'all know about Barkley 2, right?

Mosquiton, I HOPE with all my heart that the game in question involves the phrase "Shut up and Jam." I hope so much that I'm not even going to look it up to confirm, so as to preserve the potentially hilarious fantasy.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Kickstarting games = a trend now" , posted Sat 14 Sep 16:04post reply

Though their initial funding goal was modest, they've smashed it in just 3 days.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1661802484/hyper-light-drifter

The environments really make me think of Laputa and Nausicaa, and I don't think I've wanted a game from kickstarter this much since Riot.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Kickstarting games = a trend now" , posted Sun 15 Sep 00:41:post reply

quote:
Though their initial funding goal was modest, they've smashed it in just 3 days.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1661802484/hyper-light-drifter

The environments really make me think of Laputa and Nausicaa, and I don't think I've wanted a game from kickstarter this much since Riot.



Both Valdis and this Hyper Light Drifter look to good to let them pass. In fact I found them much more appealing that Inafune's n9...

Will kickstarter become the savior of this decaying and stagnating AAA-centric industry we are enduring lately? Only time will tell... but games like these or the new Canadian Kunio-Kun incline me to think so.

Edit: New kickstarter link





[this message was edited by HAYATO on Mon 16 Sep 19:47]

karasu99
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"Re(4):Re(10):Kickstarting games = a trend now" , posted Tue 17 Sep 07:17post reply

quote:
Though their initial funding goal was modest, they've smashed it in just 3 days.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1661802484/hyper-light-drifter

The environments really make me think of Laputa and Nausicaa, and I don't think I've wanted a game from kickstarter this much since Riot.



It's got a feel of Wild Arms too, which is what appeals to me the most. I think I'll likely just wait till it comes out-- those guys don't need my money at the moment, especially since they're closing in on 10x their goal.

Thanks for pointing me in its direction though!

Wow, where is everyone on the Cafe? It's been dead this weekend!






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"Re(5):Re(10):Kickstarting games = a trend now" , posted Thu 19 Sep 01:22post reply

Someone is going too far

I've seen a lot of Mugen project based on editing NGPC sprites, but those were OK since they weren't out to make money, and to make up for the simpler sprite style, they often actually bothered to use more colors than the NGPC sprites did.

One of the things about SNKP not keeping much of a formal english presence online is that it makes it less clear which would be the best chanel to report this to...

On the other hand, if they were to be OK with this, it might open the floodgates for some interesting projects, since the time-consuimg sprite work would become less of an issue. This project has some interesting ideas on its own, but they way they're going about it just feels shady...





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"Re(6):Re(10):Kickstarting games = a trend now" , posted Thu 19 Sep 05:19post reply

quote:
Someone is going too far

I've seen a lot of Mugen project based on editing NGPC sprites, but those were OK since they weren't out to make money, and to make up for the simpler sprite style, they often actually bothered to use more colors than the NGPC sprites did.



And why the deer horns? _





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"Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Thu 19 Sep 08:36:post reply

quote:
I've seen a lot of Mugen project based on editing NGPC sprites, but those were OK since they weren't out to make money, and to make up for the simpler sprite style, they often actually bothered to use more colors than the NGPC sprites did.


I thought the same thing at first.

When I compared it to NGPC games, the art didn't match, though. I think Pocket Rumble is using original art work, rather than edits. They are just trying to mimic the look of NGPC games.

The characters are supposedly based on different fighting games and characters. Naomi intentionally looks like a female Terry Bogard because she is the "King of Fighters"-style character (with KOF-style super gauge and moves based on KOF character moves.)





[this message was edited by Baines on Thu 19 Sep 08:37]

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"Re(1):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Thu 19 Sep 13:42post reply

I've seen enough edits to recognize the bases used for most of those characters - although the crossover ones don't look as derivative, those actually non-sprite artwork of those guys and they managed to look distinctive enough in the NGPC style to not evoke anyone else. then again, in their available sprites, their legs have almost the exact same outline, which is likely not original to them either... in fact, I think it's the same used for the Parker sprite.

There is, however, a strange absence of artwork of the "original" ones in any style other than "NGPC" sprite, which is odd - no portraits, no sketches, which feels a bit suspicious.

I was detailing the similarities for every character in some detail, but keeping too many tabs in this browser proved to be a liability, so I lost that post, so at this point a shorter version will have to do:

- Tenchi: Sakura (general movement, limbs), Ryu (reference for height adjustments, as the character was made to be taller than Sakura via longer torso - which is why the stance was changed), Chun-Li (one of the specials)
- Naomi: Leona (hair), Terry (hat, general outfit), Saishyu (stance)
- Quinn: Yashiro-ish build, odd stance resembles one of Rugal's NGPC frames
- Parker: Guile (with far more conservative head and pants)
- June: Athena
- Keiko: Athena (? - hard to tell due to limited frames; granted, the pet looks original enough)
- Hector: Hibiki, only taller, plus hat and clearer outline of the legs; oddly, despite the supposed inspiration on SS and LB, I don't think either of them has mechanics quite like his...
- Subject 11 - Orochi Iori...

Most sprites can be checked here for comparison, but right now it's kinda late here for me to scan them all for the legs base that seems to have been used at least thrice: http://spritedatabase.net/system/ngp


Like I said, the game has interesting concepts, but if they're asking for money, it might as well be to hire a proper sprite artist and musician instead of porting the current version to 3 or 4 different OSs - games like MotM were great despite their graphical and sound limitation, not because of them. There's only so much that's acceptable nowadays, even from a smaller group.
Using their own style instead of editing smoone else's would have been a lot more acceptable, at least if asking for money.





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"Re(2):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Thu 19 Sep 15:09:post reply

quote:
Most sprites can be checked here for comparison, but right now it's kinda late here for me to scan them all for the legs base that seems to have been used at least thrice


That's what I meant. When I looked, I couldn't find exact matches. While the general look, poses, and moves are taken from characters from various games, the actual sprite work isn't a 1:1 swipe.

NGPC sprites generally had shorter, thicker legs than the Pocket Rumble characters sport. The exception is when NGPC characters were doing moves, where their legs would get longer.

For example, the pose for the still image of June makes me think of Athena. But June's image is only similar to Athena's sprite in the general pose and general outfit. June's legs are thinner, her feet are in a different position, her hands are different, etc.

Naomi's hair looks like Leona's, but I couldn't find an exact match among the NGPC sprites that I looked at. The legs are wrong for NGPC sprites, and the curves in the lower half of the legs is a detail more likely taken from KOF XIII than a NGPC game.





[this message was edited by Baines on Thu 19 Sep 15:11]

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"Re(3):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Fri 20 Sep 03:36post reply

quote:
That's what I meant. When I looked, I couldn't find exact matches. While the general look, poses, and moves are taken from characters from various games, the actual sprite work isn't a 1:1 swipe.


Well, "frankenspriting" is a fairly common practice for some Mugen projects, and the same principle seems to be at work here.





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"Re(4):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Fri 20 Sep 04:07post reply

If you guys want the legal definition, it's still called plagioh fuck it





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"Re(4):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Fri 20 Sep 06:56post reply

quote:
Well, "frankenspriting" is a fairly common practice for some Mugen projects, and the same principle seems to be at work here.



Where? I didn't find any parts that were 1:1 matches.

The more I looked, the more I felt that Pocket Rumble was new sprite art based on the look and feel of NGPC sprite art.

Maybe it is heavy editing of details, maybe it is more like SF2HDR, maybe it is just looking at NGPC sprites as references... It is easy to find similar images, but the pixels just didn't line up for even piecemeal direct parts copying when I compared images.

Honestly, it would probably be easier to just *make* new sprite art based on the NGPC sprites than to do the degree of piecemeal editing required for some of these images.

That being said, the characters are obviously based on existing pre-existing properties, and the moves performed by these characters are as well. This is clearly a(n intentionally) derivative work. But I don't think it is the outright blatant Mugen/BOR-style clone that it at first appears to be. (Though to be fair, I do have to allow for the possibility that I just didn't find the exact right sprites to look at.)





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"Re(5):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Fri 20 Sep 07:13post reply

quote:
Well, "frankenspriting" is a fairly common practice for some Mugen projects, and the same principle seems to be at work here.


Where? I didn't find any parts that were 1:1 matches.

The more I looked, the more I felt that Pocket Rumble was new sprite art based on the look and feel of NGPC sprite art.



To my eye, they look a bit 'drawn over'-- in other words the new sprite is drawn in a new layer over the other one, tweaking things where need be. It may just be that they are heavily, heavily influenced by MotM sprites etc.

While it all looks like an interesting experiment, and I'm interested in whether or not bringing the game to modern controls will make it feel a little bit more natural than the old NGPC controls, I can't say I especially enjoy the look of the game.






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"Re(6):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Fri 20 Sep 08:00post reply

quote:


While it all looks like an interesting experiment, and I'm interested in whether or not bringing the game to modern controls will make it feel a little bit more natural than the old NGPC controls, I can't say I especially enjoy the look of the game.



They may be inspired by MOTM sprite... but egads these characters are ugly.





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"Re(1):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Tue 24 Sep 15:28post reply

Shantae is funded now, good for them!

Lots of weird stuff posted to their KS comments page too like this





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"River City Ransom Underground sprite animatio" , posted Tue 1 Oct 03:45post reply

There is an interesting short YouTube video for how the sprite animation is being done for the Kickstarter project River City Ransom: Underground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R34YlOeqXWc





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"Re(1):River City Ransom Underground sprite an" , posted Tue 1 Oct 04:28post reply

quote:
There is an interesting short YouTube video for how the sprite animation is being done for the Kickstarter project River City Ransom: Underground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R34YlOeqXWc



After pouring so much talent in this game, I sincerely hope they reach their intended funding goal. There are only 8 days left and they still are a tad far from it...





Mosquiton
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"Re(2):River City Ransom Underground sprite an" , posted Tue 1 Oct 14:05post reply

quote:
There is an interesting short YouTube video for how the sprite animation is being done for the Kickstarter project River City Ransom: Underground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R34YlOeqXWc


After pouring so much talent in this game, I sincerely hope they reach their intended funding goal. There are only 8 days left and they still are a tad far from it...



I'm probably going to end up pledging a bit of support toward these guys. They seem like an earnest and talented bunch of Canadians.





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Holiday
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"Re(1):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Sat 5 Oct 00:44:post reply

And now it's the last hour for Shantae at Kickstarter. Looks like they might hit the 800k stretch goal.
Shantae @ Kickstarter

And I ended up supporting them too. Tried out Risky's Revenge on iOS and I enjoyed the game a lot.





[this message was edited by Holiday on Sat 5 Oct 00:51]

mbisonhatclub
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"Re(2):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Sat 5 Oct 06:39post reply

quote:
And now it's the last hour for Shantae at Kickstarter. Looks like they might hit the 800k stretch goal.
Shantae @ Kickstarter

And I ended up supporting them too. Tried out Risky's Revenge on iOS and I enjoyed the game a lot.


It's a real fun game, even though I hear it's the easiest of the series. I pitched in 350 to the KS myself so I could put my crappy artwork in it... (not yet started on it)





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HAYATO
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"Re(3):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Mon 7 Oct 20:32post reply

Fans of Tim Burton (or Doug Tennapel for that matter) rejoice!! A new stop-motion graphical adventure with a strong Coraline vibe is coming: Knite and the Ghost Lights.





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"Re(4):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Fri 14 Feb 04:30post reply

I recently kicked in for Darkest Dungeon.

It's a dungeon crawler with Cthulu-esque horror undertones, and the hook is that your characters can be affected psychologically by the terrible things that happen to them, developing personality quirks and fears that influence their behavior.

There's also a management angle, as you manage a stable of adventurers and organize excursions into various dungeon areas with groups of four.

They've been developing the game for nine months, so there's game footage on the site, and they're actually already funded but pushing toward some interesting stretch goals.

Art style is pretty great as well.





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"ex-Snatcher staff makes adventure game" , posted Mon 24 Feb 04:03:post reply

I can't even make this up.

also with the voice of Solid Snake.





[this message was edited by Spoon on Mon 24 Feb 07:56]