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| |  "Re(4):Fighting Game Thread 2025" , posted Fri 21 Mar 02:32  
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They did; MK Armageddon has a kart racing minigame titled Motor Kombat.
Color me surprised then. Maybe bringing it back won't bolster MK1's chances after all.
But enough derailment, have a Tekken 8 collab with the new Atelier game because why not.
MK1's situation is quite curious, indeed. It sold more than SF6 and Tekken 8, which should indicate it was successful, yet it seems WB Games may cancel its Season 3. Sure, apparently Season 2 didn't do as well as they expected, but still, it's not like the overall project failed.
Oh well. Anyway, the Tekken 8/Atelier collab is unexpected, but looks nice nevertheless.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(7):Futbol of the Wolves" , posted Thu 27 Mar 06:47
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They actually put him in, the madlads
And yet, he looks like a more boring Roberto. But whatever gets the game to sell, right?
He looks so out of place
Quite a random choice, indeed. We already knew Cristiano would be involved with CotW somehow, but I expected him to be a special narrator or voice actor. He does seem to have some cool attacks, though.
But... is he part of the default roster or a later DLC fighter? If he's one of the 17 initial fighters, honestly, that's a weird move; even Ken, Chun-Li and Mr. Big would make more sense as default CotW fighters.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(8):Futbol of the Wolves" , posted Thu 27 Mar 09:26
quote:
They actually put him in, the madlads
And yet, he looks like a more boring Roberto. But whatever gets the game to sell, right?
He looks so out of place
Quite a random choice, indeed. We already knew Cristiano would be involved with CotW somehow, but I expected him to be a special narrator or voice actor. He does seem to have some cool attacks, though.
But... is he part of the default roster or a later DLC fighter? If he's one of the 17 initial fighters, honestly, that's a weird move; even Ken, Chun-Li and Mr. Big would make more sense as default CotW fighters.
It is odd that he doesn't seem to be a guest character or DLC, he just lives there. Fame is a strange thing, and this guy has a great deal of it, but in terms of fit.... idk man. To me this feels like the strangest guest character since Norimaro.
/ / /
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| | "Re(10):Futbol of the Wolves" , posted Thu 27 Mar 23:59
I'm biaised because I wasn't feeling the game anyway, but I don't particularly mind. That game has the biggest "straight bro" energy this side of CoD anyway (that and the whole guest DJ thing, with DJs who stopped being cool 5 years ago, and apparently one of those will also be a guest playable character if the datamining is to be believed?).
On one hand it is sad it happened to a series that used to be respectable, but on the other, one guy with tons of money is basically buying a game company to make the game of his dreams, and honestly, if I were in his place, you would have a new Vampire Savior with Army of Lovers for the soundtrack and Brigitte Fontaine as a secret character.
So I'm less disappointed than I'm jealous.
But also Nintendo just showed Saga Frontier 2, a new Rythm Tengoku, and... Salamander 3???
So it balances out.
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| | "Re(10):Futbol of the Wolves+MKvsSF" , posted Fri 28 Mar 02:27
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that and the whole guest DJ thing, with DJs who stopped being cool 5 years ago, and apparently one of those will also be a guest playable character if the datamining is to be believed?.
Really? Oh dear...
quote:
and honestly, if I were in his place, you would have a new Vampire Savior with Army of Lovers for the soundtrack and Brigitte Fontaine as a secret character.
That's... actually not a bad idea. I could get behind that.
---
Anyway, speaking of news about weird video game crossovers, Fortnite will get Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Kitana and Raiden skins (Sub-Zero was already released, in fact), meaning that people will get to see MK kombatants against SF fighters in an official video game for the first time (sure, a third-person shooter probably isn't the kind of game most people wanted for this crossover to happen).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| "Re(2):Re(10):Futbol of the Wolves+MKvsSF" , posted Fri 28 Mar 23:06
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Anyway, speaking of news about weird video game crossovers, Fortnite will get Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Kitana and Raiden skins (Sub-Zero was already released, in fact), meaning that people will get to see MK kombatants against SF fighters in an official video game for the first time (sure, a third-person shooter probably isn't the kind of game most people wanted for this crossover to happen).
I don't know how a game that will let Hatsune Miku blast Scorpion with a shotgun became the biggest thing ever, but good for them.
In other news, Project L 2XKO, the money laundering scheme fighting game from Riot, announced that after many years of work it is finally going to launch with a roster of ten characters. Welp.
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| | "Re(3):Re(10):Futbol of the Wolves+MKvsSF" , posted Mon 31 Mar 03:56
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I don't know how a game that will let Hatsune Miku blast Scorpion with a shotgun became the biggest thing ever, but good for them.
Indeed.
Now there is an official trailer showing the kombatants in Fortnite. Sub-Zero, Scorpion and Raiden look pretty good. Kitana... well, I get that her original UMK3 outfit could be quite inappropriate for a game aimed at all ages, but her new shorts look kinda bad. If the developers wanted her to be a bit more covered up, it would be better to just give her full pants like the ones she has in MK11 (and that look pretty good).
Also, if Kitana is in Fortnite, they should have added Mileena as well; in my opinion, there are some characters who should always be present together in all video games (like Ralf & Clark, Mature & Vice, Yun & Yang, and so on).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "the soul still burns!" , posted Fri 4 Apr 20:19
quote:
Did I hear that Soul Calibur II, the best-playing one, is going to be on Switch 2?! Now there’s the reason I need a new system for once—I can finally stop playing SC VI while wishing it were just a little more like II and a little less like III+.
Yes, it is! The question now is whether Heihachi and Spawn will also be present in it - when the PS2 and Xbox versions were adapted to the more modern consoles, players could have access to both characters regardless of which console they were playing.
(I suppose Link will remain exclusive to the Switch 2 port)
This is great news! It's hard to even remember that there was another downloadable port of SCII in PS3 days, and while I don't think anyone played it, I'm reminded that they did indeed have all three guest characters.
As always, including with the recent classic Street Fighter collections, the key is whether the port can manage to build up a community of players when all the serious fans are already on linked emulated versions. Fightcade kind of obviated the need for SF collections, and for some odd reason the Dolphin Gamecube emulator seems to be the venue of choice for online SCII. I kind of wonder why that is! I have a hard time imagining that the Gamecube version had the most players in the old days, though I sort of faintly recall that maybe it was for some reason a very good port, especially where the more widely played (I assume) PS2 version had inexplicable slowdown on Talim's stage and elsewhere.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(1):the soul still burns!" , posted Fri 11 Apr 16:43
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Did I hear that Soul Calibur II, the best-playing one, is going to be on Switch 2?! Now there’s the reason I need a new system for once—I can finally stop playing SC VI while wishing it were just a little more like II and a little less like III+.
Yes, it is! The question now is whether Heihachi and Spawn will also be present in it - when the PS2 and Xbox versions were adapted to the more modern consoles, players could have access to both characters regardless of which console they were playing.
(I suppose Link will remain exclusive to the Switch 2 port)
This is great news! It's hard to even remember that there was another downloadable port of SCII in PS3 days, and while I don't think anyone played it, I'm reminded that they did indeed have all three guest characters.
As always, including with the recent classic Street Fighter collections, the key is whether the port can manage to build up a community of players when all the serious fans are already on linked emulated versions. Fightcade kind of obviated the need for SF collections, and for some odd reason the Dolphin Gamecube emulator seems to be the venue of choice for online SCII. I kind of wonder why that is! I have a hard time imagining that the Gamecube version had the most players in the old days, though I sort of faintly recall that maybe it was for some reason a very good port, especially where the more widely played (I assume) PS2 version had inexplicable slowdown on Talim's stage and
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I've never understood Soul Calibur on a deeper level. But I can say with certainty that the newer games just don't feel as good to play as the older ones. I figure part of that is nostalgia, but I think there must be some deeper mechanical issues at play too (like how modern attempts at Beat em Ups rarely ever feel as good as Final Fight). Could you elaborate on what sets Soul Calibur 2 apart for you?
I LOVED Soul Calibur for the Dreamcast. I think it's the best button masher ever made, and I mean that as the highest compliment. The way the characters react to your inputs is really intuitive. It's a game where someone with absolutely no skill can still have fun cos what happens on screen matches up really well with what they're doing with their hands. And you can eventually feel out different characters without actually memorizing their hundreds of moves. You just kind of know what the difference will be between a regular tap and a F+tap and a F-F + Tap and holding a button down vs not etc. Everything FEELS right! The newer Soul Caliburs still actually have that element, but for some reason they just don't feel as good and I can't put my finger on it!
www.art-eater.com
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| "Nobi Calibur II" , posted Fri 11 Apr 19:29
Viscount Nobi-ngton, I am so glad A) that you are here and B) that you are talking about one of my favorite fighting games, and the only one I can unselfconsciously claim to be "quite good" at. I can't wait to play it again for the first time in years!
I LOVE Soul Calibur I like you, and its presentation is actually better than II: it's miles prettier than the arcade, it has so many wonderful modes and so much artwork with just the right pacing to unlocking the fun, and the guard impact system is great and at its most complex. Soul Calibur II is actually a step down in presentation in that it has fewer characters and modes, but it plays the best and the fastest. Soul Calibur III feels like you're playing in the mud with a way worse system (and you are). Soul Calibur IV feels like you're playing in the mud, while also underwater. Soul Calibur V feels like...who knows, no one has ever played Soul Calibur V, except Iggy and Pollyanna and I'm not sure I believe them, though I sort of admire Namco's perverse bravery in "pulling a SF III" by replacing all their iconic characters with new, far worse characters with similar attributes! Soul Calibur VI is basically Soul Calibur III, but at it's least played at Soul Calibur II speeds.
So why does Soul Calibur II feel and play so great? Part of it's the smoothness and speed, including with which you move in and out of the background (8-way run), far more easily than Soul Calibur I and much more like Tobal 2 in the best possible way. (I really love Tobal 2! And I know you do too!) This is important because it connects to three other things that make SCII perfect and which all its successors fail at: 1) moves that track opponents laterally when they are moving into the background, 2) moves to attack opponents with when you yourself are moving into the background, many of which are knock-downs, and 3) a large number of knock-down moves in general, many of which also track into the background.
In a game where jumping is mostly irrelevant, this variability of trips and 3D field attacks/escapes is key, otherwise you're just left bored out of your mind mashing only attack and block with virtually no consequence or variation, which is why III and onward feel like some dumb chanbara (and not even Onee-chanbara!) or punchfests...it's rock-paper-scissors, but with just rock and rock. From III onwards, no one ever gets tripped, and there's never any need to move into the background because most of your moves don't work while in 8-way run and none of them knock down anyway. Either Soul Calibur I and II were the world's biggest accidents, the fabled monkeys producing Shakespeare on a typewriter randomly over a million years, or someone (everyone?!) fundamentally, 120% misunderstood how movement and thus fun worked, starting from SCIII.
In SC II, it's a constant high-mid-low attack three-choice guessing game paired with high-mid and mid-low guard impacts, a slightly simpler two-choice guessing game that might let you break free of a beatdown or alternatively to continue to press an attack by anticipating and parrying an opponent's counterattack to your whiffed aggression (it's like if SFIII's blocking parries were actually fun and exciting! I hate SFIII! But you knew that too!). And when you have the ability to have all kind of attacks to/from the 8-way run, you have an incredibly fluid and high-motion game, where people are getting grabbed and tripped, rolling away in and out of the background after knock-down in order to escape, or alternatively getting up immediately to take a gamble on a well-timed guard impact at the right height, or playing one of many guessing games between similar three beat moves that either end mid or low/trip for the final hit.
SC II may have some silly Todd McFarlane character wedged in and it doesn't have enough stages compared with SC I, but it still looks beautiful today and it plays like the constant flow of the swordfight of your dreams.
THE SOUL STILL BURNS!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(1):Nobi Calibur II" , posted Mon 14 Apr 03:31
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Viscount Nobi-ngton, I am so glad A) that you are here and B) that you are talking about one of my favorite fighting games, and the only one I can unselfconsciously claim to be "quite good" at. I can't wait to play it again for the first time in years!
I LOVE Soul Calibur I like you, and its presentation is actually better than II: it's miles prettier than the arcade, it has so many wonderful modes and so much artwork with just the right pacing to unlocking the fun, and the guard impact system is great and at its most complex. Soul Calibur II is actually a step down in presentation in that it has fewer characters and modes, but it plays the best and the fastest. Soul Calibur III feels like you're playing in the mud with a way worse system (and you are). Soul Calibur IV feels like you're playing in the mud, while also underwater. Soul Calibur V feels like...who knows, no one has ever played Soul Calibur V, except Iggy and Pollyanna and I'm not sure I believe them, though I sort of admire Namco's perverse bravery in "pulling a SF III" by replacing all their iconic characters with new, far worse characters with similar attributes! Soul Calibur VI is basically Soul Calibur III, but at it's least played at Soul Calibur II speeds.
So why does Soul Calibur II feel and play so great? Part of it's the smoothness and speed, including with which you move in and out of the background (8-way run), far more easily than Soul Calibur I and much more like Tobal 2 in the best possibl
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Thank you for the detailed reply! You articulated so many things that I could only vaguely feel, thank you for taking the time to explain it all so well!
One really great point that you brought up is that Soul Calibur and Soul Calibur 2 had really really good full 3D movement. That's something that I feel like 3D fighting games actually moved away from over the years. The movement in the earlier Soul Calibur games felt SO GOOD and they gave more meaning to stabbing/swinging attacks (and the direction of their arcs!) than they'd ever have in a 2D playing game. They also lead to the best ring outs of any fighting game! I know Smash is totally based around Ring Outs, but it's Soul Calibur where i've had the biggest belly bursting laughs in reaction to ringouts, the funniest game mechanic in fighting games.
I wish I had more to add to this conversation. Oh hey, have you seen this rad cover of The Edge of Soul?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw6mh_QJAEw
It's incredible!
Here's how I rank the Soul games:
Soul Calibur - Most complete package overall
Soul Calibur 2 - Best gameplay
Soul Edge - Best Intro Ever
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| "Re(3):Nobi Calibur II" , posted Wed 16 Apr 00:31
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Soul Calibur - Most complete package overall
Soul Calibur 2 - Best gameplay
Soul Edge - Best Intro Ever
100% on the money. Interestingly, the other two most important criteria also produce the same rank order:
-Soul Calibur - adjustable underwear color code for Sophitia
-Soul Calibur 2 - angle of Seung Mina's throw animation
-Soul Edge - "Sophitia!!" special outfit from the opening movie
OR
-Soul Calibur - possibility of creating a nearly perfect opening movie via the adjustable characters in each part of the sequence : 1) inevitably, the version you create is the one true version, or 2) Astaroth in every scene, including Sophitia's dainty "flinching against the cold wind" scene, which is also perfect
-Soul Calibur 2 - worse opening, but fun competition to see who can press a button to do a battle cry at the last minute before the loading screen ends
-Soul Edge - opening so perfect as to make playing the rest of the game impossible
quote:
The movement in the earlier Soul Calibur games felt SO GOOD and they gave more meaning to stabbing/swinging attacks (and the direction of their arcs!) than they'd ever have in a 2D playing game.
So true! As a Nightmare/Siegfried main, this is an especially joyous aspect of the game. A tiny reason SCII is the best: Nightmare has this one lateral attack where he makes maybe a 540 degree mid-level swing with his sword, but if you hold the attack button as he goes all the way around, he pulls the sword up at the end back to starting position at an angle to make a tiny, spiteful little low hit to his opponent's ankle that can throw people off.
Did someone say ring outs? Soul Calibur I and II have such good throws (how emblematic that over the course of the weaker later entries, throws ended up being 100% useless and easily blockable by SC VI, without even using guard impact) that getting chucked out of/near to the edge of the ring is a real danger and strategy. I think SCII is the first game where you might actually dangle halfway off the cliff rather than floating stiffly in mid-air. Speaking of yucks regarding ring-outs, this is in contrast to the slightly weird physics of Tobal 2's ring edges, where you would literally get sucked out of the area if you dangled even a little bit over the edge.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(5):Nobi Calibur II" , posted Thu 17 Apr 17:43
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If only Bamco would be willing to pull a Tony Hawk 1+2 scenario and release "Soul Caliburs", a repackaged Soul Calibur 1 with 2's gameplay.
Alas, that was theoretically what SCVI was supposed to be, but someone misread the memo and gave us a repackaged SCI but with SCIII's gameplay instead. Argh! 
On the positive side, we can at least thank the internet for giving us a remade Soul Edge introduction. Even the otherwise useless SCIII and SCIV have a purpose here!
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What the heck is Capcom thinking, making the stupid decision of using the EO version with no roll cancels for ranked in the collection.
On the other hand, it might still be better judgment than letting second-rate outfits like Udon produce an off-model animated trailer! I've never been quite sure how they managed to make it into Capcom's official circle, especially when much more talented animators from the 1994 SFII anime, or even the SFII V (not 5) series and subsequent mid-grade OAVs, were available. Was it a Capcom USA thing? The good news of course is that a perfect Moero Justice Gakuen-themed animated trailer for Fighting Collection 2 already exists, and it is the opening of Justice Gakuen 1.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(6):Nobi Calibur II" , posted Mon 21 Apr 02:14
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On the other hand, it might still be better judgment than letting second-rate outfits like Udon produce an off-model animated trailer! I've never been quite sure how they managed to make it into Capcom's official circle, especially when much more talented animators from the 1994 SFII anime, or even the SFII V (not 5) series and subsequent mid-grade OAVs, were available. Was it a Capcom USA thing?
It probably was a Capcom USA thing, but they'd also built a fanbase as manga/anime-like artists over the years and established themselves in the West as being the big Western Capcom artist group.
I first knew Udon from their work at Marvel, where they did the art and coloring for Gail Simone's Deadpool and then Agent X runs. While Udon even then had detractors, it built itself a fanbase with its manga/anime-like art style and detailed digital coloring, which stood out against the other Marvel artists.
Udon's Street Fighter comic book came about a year and a half after their Marvel work with Simone. My guess is that Udon got the deal because they were the biggest "professional" Western studio that produced anything similar to Capcom's art style, likely offered pretty good terms, and actually knew and cared about what Street Fighter was.
That built them an even bigger fanbase in the west, as they were now doing a manga/anime-like style for a larger audience that actually wanted that style. I'd guess that Western fanbase is what got them more and more Western Capcom comic book work, as well as being tapped for other projects like game art.
I honestly don't remember seeing a particularly big criticism of Udon's work (outside of Marvel) until in-progress art for SSF2THDR started getting posted to the SRK forum. Redrawing existing side view static poses of lone characters on a blank background meant the art didn't provide the various distractions present in their other artwork (like dynamic poses, action, complex backgrounds, Chun-Li in a string bikini, etc). It became obvious the artists didn't understand anatomy, from having brand new muscle groups magically appear out of nowhere to always drawing ankles reversed or drawing every ear cauliflowered. It was also obvious the artists didn't understand the necessity of logical consistency when drawing for animation. Or that the imposed studio style was far from enough to mask the differences in skill of the various artists.
But by that point, Udon had already been long established as the Western Capcom artists. Even the SSF2THDR backlash was seemingly largely restricted to a few groups online, not affecting the much larger Udon fanbase.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(5):Nobi Calibur II" , posted Mon 28 Apr 15:24
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Astaroth in every scene, including Sophitia's dainty "flinching against the cold wind" scene, which is also perfect
DUDE. One of my most vivid memories of SC is doing just that. My friends and I absolutely lost it after seeing Astaroth acting so demure.
While the price of convincing college dorm friends to learn to play Soul Calibur against me was occasionally finding my copy’s perfectly directed opening (first section first cut: Siegfried; second second first cut: Cervantes, absolutely no Lizardman or Rock) destroyed, it was hard to complain about the all-Astaroth cut, especially when the wind scene came up and I laughed my @$$ off.
Big thanks also to Baines for the interesting history of Udon’s mostly undeserved formal association with Capcom, especially after SSFII HD, which should have been disqualifying. My feelings towards them are more kind when they’re just mid-tier American fanart, of course, and I feel a little bad about ragging on them given the indirect connection where Long Vo and other (former?) members would contribute gift art to the Cafe in early days.
…though Cafe fanart reminds me that former MMC oekaki contributer Xue Xue far outpaced anything they could do.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P - THE FOOL  | "Summer of Zero3" , posted Tue 23 Sep 05:16
Zero 3, and to a lesser extend CvS2, have always been games that I wanted to like but really... nah.
I've never been a huge fan of ISM/grooves, and there's something in the controls that bugs me even though I can't put my finger on it. However, it seems 2025 is the year of Zero3 !
After Capcom unexpectedly added the 3 double upper characters to the collection, I found this amazing tournament (which apparently is a regular thing) of Zero 3 but only on Z Ism, and that's the most fun I've had watching this game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8H08o-huwE
And finally, someone on Resetera posted this incredible Brazilian hack that basically converts the game into KOF?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zN-vqcgc1E
quote:
Run: Not a Street Fighter 3 style dash, no, if you want to get in faster you’ve got a full on run to close the distance in nothing flat.
Short hop: Another King of Fighters staple, if you want to slip in an air attack without your opponent catching you.
Just defend: As in Mark of the Wolves, you can perform a more effective block by guarding with the correct timing. Similar to a custom combo, you can also enter a « Daigo Mode » where you automatically just defend any attack.
Roll/Escape: Standards from King of Fighters, you can perform invulnerable dodges which let you avoid attacks but may leave you open afterward.
Air blocking: Breaking from Alpha series convention, normal air blocking is no longer possible, making air movement generally less safe. As in Mark of the Wolves, you are still able to just defend in the air.
Life recovery: Unlike Street Fighter, your health is no longer guaranteed to be fully recovered between rounds, allowing your opponent to wear down your characters through attrition. You do, however, have the option of converting your unused super meter into additional recovery between rounds instead of carrying that meter over.
ISM: This is simply no longer a mechanic, instead players always have access to alpha counters, multiple super moves, and custom combos. Instead you get to choose an air recovery type,
I wonder if they will keep adding more characters, since they stopped at Boxer/Juni/Juri. Or maybe do the same to CvS2? Import SNK characters into Zero3? I'd love to see where this can go.
Who knows, maybe one day T.Hawk will be playable in Zero3!
The only thing that triggers me is that they call it "Zero 3 Mix", yet they're using the US names. Pick a lane, Brazil!
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| | "Re(2):Summer of Zero3" , posted Mon 20 Oct 00:41
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Zero 3, and to a lesser extend CvS2, have always been games that I wanted to like but really... nah.
I've never been a huge fan of ISM/grooves, and there's something in the controls that bugs me even though I can't put my finger on it.
quote:
Zero 3 and CvS2 are examples of games where the game isn't filled with endless possibilities but is overstuffed with junk. Grooves, Shura/Rasetsu or whatever often isn't a source of variety, but rather something to sift through until you find the most effective thing and stick with it. All games boil down to that philosophy, but grooves make it feel like you're ignoring half the game. That's especially annoying since I just want to play Z ism and ignore all those silly custom combos.
Interesting thoughts. I always saw Grooves/ISMs/etc as a way to give players more freedom in how they prefer to play, but reading your comments, I have to agree that they can indeed make these games feel "overstuffed" and making the player having part of the mechanics taken away from them.
Do you guys think this also applies to games like Capcom Fighting Evolution or BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle, which also have different systems/mechanics but where each character is "locked" into a specific system/mechanic (like Sakura being "locked" in the SFA2 system while Alex is "locked" in the SFIII system, or the same button being used for Drives for BB characters and for summoning Personas for P4A characters)?
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| | "Re(3):Summer of Zero3" , posted Mon 20 Oct 22:31
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Interesting thoughts. I always saw Grooves/ISMs/etc as a way to give players more freedom in how they prefer to play, but reading your comments, I have to agree that they can indeed make these games feel "overstuffed" and making the player having part of the mechanics taken away from them.
Do you guys think this also applies to games like Capcom Fighting Evolution or BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle, which also have different systems/mechanics but where each character is "locked" into a specific system/mechanic (like Sakura being "locked" in the SFA2 system while Alex is "locked" in the SFIII system, or the same button being used for Drives for BB characters and for summoning Personas for P4A characters)?
I think it's difficult to know because something might work perfectly in your mind, when it's unshackled from any boring reality checks. For such a weird crossover as BB Cross Tag, I guess giving everyone their own system was a necessity in order to keep each section of the roster recognizable. CFJ had so many fatal problems that I don't even think locking character to their systems would make the list. I suppose having a sort of groove edit like CvS2's home edition had would have helped at least make it even more goofy and maybe more fun?
Ultimately, the issue we're grappling with when a system is so strong it overwhelms the character. If your character in 3S cannot take advantage of the parry system like Remy, or FADC doesn't reward your character in SF4 enough like THawk, the character is handicaped in not a fun way. It's low tier at a system level, the concept of the character just doesn't mesh with the way the system wants the game to be played.
And when you introduce the ISM system, then the issue becomes "which character can take the most advantage of the stronger ISM", and the selection process becomes even more overbearing. Not only your favourite low tier character might have issues such as damage or hitboxes, it also just fundamentally doesn't work because it doesn't jell well with the stronger ISM, or the stronger ISM requires you to play it in a very narrow and unsatisfying way.
And also, in CvS2, you pick an groove for the whole team, so if your ace requires A Groove, then the rest of the team is also limited to the character who per default work well in this groove. Having groove selection per character and not per team would probably be less limiting?
A real balance pass on these games should not only adjust some numerical values of some characters, it should also tweak the systems of each ISM to make them better to play as. But then, when the rolling cancel bug was patched in a rereleased, everyone hated it and it actually made the stronger characters even more oppressive because balance is a really difficult science.
And then, on the other extremity of the scale, you have Arcana Heart, where each arcana is basicaly a groove of its own, there's as many arcanas as there are characters, and while each character is designed to work with her own default arcana, she can also use any of the others for a dizzing amount of possibilities. Each character has a list of arcanas with which they work well, each arcana has a list of characters wich which they work well, and everything is just fine tuned by years and years of revisions and additions that make the game now utterly unpenetrable and fascinating.
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| | "Re(6):Summer of Toshinden" , posted Tue 28 Oct 05:42
quote:
Speaking of which... the first three Toshinden games are getting rereleased! No, seriously, they are.
That's a curious move... to rerelease the first three Toshinden games (which probably won't be bought by many people), but not the fourth one that was kinda like a (really bad) 3D KOF with ring-outs (which, granted, would be bought by even less people, but it's not as if it would make anyone decide not to get the first three games). Or the curious Saturn port of Toshinden 2, which actually had a different name, a different storyline and even some different characters (kinda like Bloody Roar Primal Fury and Bloody Roar 4). Or even the Toshinden equivalent to VF Kids that was only released in Japan.
Then again, the three first games are the most famous ones in the series. Toshinden 2 looked quite nice, and 3 was uglier but was more playable (and had a much bigger roster, although most of them would have very similar movelists). 1... well, 1 was a little better than 4, I guess.
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| PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: n/a
| "Re(7):Summer of Toshinden" , posted Tue 28 Oct 23:38
quote:
Speaking of which... the first three Toshinden games are getting rereleased! No, seriously, they are.
That's a curious move... to rerelease the first three Toshinden games (which probably won't be bought by many people), but not the fourth one that was kinda like a (really bad) 3D KOF with ring-outs (which, granted, would be bought by even less people, but it's not as if it would make anyone decide not to get the first three games). Or the curious Saturn port of Toshinden 2, which actually had a different name, a different storyline and even some different characters (kinda like Bloody Roar Primal Fury and Bloody Roar 4). Or even the Toshinden equivalent to VF Kids that was only released in Japan.
If ever there was a time for me to show up suddenly, it's for Toshinden-posting!
I should point out that this is getting published by Edia, who infamously split the Valis series into three (and counting) releases, each much more expensive than similar collections! So I wouldn't be surprised to see them release at least two collections of Toshinden to grab up the remainders. There's a Gameboy game too, and Toshinden S, the Saturn version of the first game! This is a series that I might actually be inclined to get the collection of, given the sheer number of hours I put into it (2 especially). Toshinden 1 was my first Playstation1 game!
Anyway, HI EVERYBODY! I'll probably recede into the darkness of lurking again after this.
You have to carefully reproduce the world of "Castlevania" in the solemn atmosphere.
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hazzann
