Fighting Game Thread Spring 2020 - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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"Fighting Game Thread Spring 2020" , posted Mon 27 Jan 01:30:post reply

What better way to start off 2020 than a new fighting game thread. With more Leroys than that anime, a Sakura taking SFV, and of course the SamSho S2 and SC 6 announcement, EVO Japan certainly launched things fast for January.

And of course another hot topic in e-sports for this week was pro-gamer Fuudo, who just got married to Yuka Kuramochi. It certainly seems that he has core values, as Kuramochi is the Mika player gravure idol who took to the stage last year and became core topic from the DOA 6 presentation.

With GBVS & UNICL-R being just around the corner and GGStrive Beta also coming, this year is off to a fast start. There will be a lagfest for GBVS in early Feb (unless there are problems with the game's netplay).





[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 27 Jan 01:36]

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"Re(1):Fighting Game Thread Spring 2020" , posted Mon 27 Jan 02:36post reply

quote:
Sakura taking SFV
Fuudo, who just got married to Yuka Kuramochi.

At last, some core values I can get behind!

The Evo celebration might be enough reason for me to post Iggy's favorite song for everyone to "enjoy."





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"Re(2):Fighting Game Thread Spring 2020" , posted Mon 27 Jan 10:17post reply

Finally, some good news for a change! First off, congrats to Fuudo and Yuka Kuramochi. The sight of that loving, improbable couple will always make me smile. Second, it's good to hear that Sakura got a big win under her belt. Between that and a character that wasn't Shizimaru winning SS it sounds like I have a lot of matches to catch up on. Finally, I'm impressed that Evo Japan appears to have been a middling success. That doesn't sound like much but considering up until now it had been a huge, embarrassing failure I would say it's quite the improvement.





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"Re(3):Fighting Game Thread Spring 2020" , posted Tue 28 Jan 14:02post reply

quote:
Finally, some good news for a change! First off, congrats to Fuudo and Yuka Kuramochi. The sight of that loving, improbable couple will always make me smile. Second, it's good to hear that Sakura got a big win under her belt. Between that and a character that wasn't Shizimaru winning SS it sounds like I have a lot of matches to catch up on. Finally, I'm impressed that Evo Japan appears to have been a middling success. That doesn't sound like much but considering up until now it had been a huge, embarrassing failure I would say it's quite the improvement.



Wait a minute. I hope I am not confusing this person with another,but isn't Yuka the twitter model famous for her constant butt shots?





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"Re(4):Fighting Game Thread Spring 2020" , posted Tue 28 Jan 14:28post reply

quote:
Finally, some good news for a change! First off, congrats to Fuudo and Yuka Kuramochi. The sight of that loving, improbable couple will always make me smile. Second, it's good to hear that Sakura got a big win under her belt. Between that and a character that wasn't Shizimaru winning SS it sounds like I have a lot of matches to catch up on. Finally, I'm impressed that Evo Japan appears to have been a middling success. That doesn't sound like much but considering up until now it had been a huge, embarrassing failure I would say it's quite the improvement.


Wait a minute. I hope I am not confusing this person with another,but isn't Yuka the twitter model famous for her constant butt shots?

The same! She’s also a pretty decent SFV player (far better than the Cafe, outside of Rugal ), and a big R. Mika fan, as you could imagine.





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"Re(5):Fighting Game Thread Spring 2020" , posted Tue 28 Jan 20:26post reply

quote:
Finally, some good news for a change! First off, congrats to Fuudo and Yuka Kuramochi. The sight of that loving, improbable couple will always make me smile. Second, it's good to hear that Sakura got a big win under her belt. Between that and a character that wasn't Shizimaru winning SS it sounds like I have a lot of matches to catch up on. Finally, I'm impressed that Evo Japan appears to have been a middling success. That doesn't sound like much but considering up until now it had been a huge, embarrassing failure I would say it's quite the improvement.


Wait a minute. I hope I am not confusing this person with another,but isn't Yuka the twitter model famous for her constant butt shots?
The same! She’s also a pretty decent SFV player (far better than the Cafe, outside of Rugal ), and a big R. Mika fan, as you could imagine.



That's interesting! Is she a competitor in those SFV tournaments, too, or does she play just for fun?

Of course, playing just for fun doesn't mean the person couldn't play competitively; I still remember when Nintendo hired Utada Hikaru to have Tetris matches against a bunch of players and she managed to win against almost everyone... one more among several reasons to love her.





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"Re(6):Fighting Game Thread Spring 2020" , posted Wed 29 Jan 05:04post reply

I finally got around to watching the SF5 top 8 from Evo Japan and was quite impressed. Seeing Sakura constantly landing fists and fireballs was delightful. Abigail having combos that involve him literally walking on his opponent was also good fun. Still, there's something odd about watching a live event days later. I don't remember who won the Super Bowl back in 1996 so maybe I should re-watch that as well.

Although I have no idea whether Joker will be fun or practical in MK11 I do find his inclusion to be an amazing bit of good luck. From what I've heard Joker was an eleventh hour replacement for another character that somehow fell through. Now that the Joker is an Oscar nominated character of cultural renown NRS look like geniuses for their perfectly timed DLC.





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"EVO2K20 line up" , posted Thu 6 Feb 00:33post reply

Link Here

A few surprises in there. Most notably to me is MK11 not coming back despite only being in its second year and a whole season pass of new characters in the roster.

Under Night and GranBlue Fantasy Versus are surprise additions.

The MvC2 invitational is a pleasant addition. I have a feeling this might be a tie-in with the leaked 1UP Arcade cabinets for X-Men vs SF and MvC1 (or a possible announcement of digital releases of the oldschool Marvel vs Capcom games).

Great to see Samurai Shodown and Soul Calibur VI coming back.







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"Re(1):EVO2K20 line up" , posted Thu 6 Feb 05:01post reply

Has there been any rumors as to why MK11 didn't make the cut? Was there some sort of disagreement with WB? Is this a similar situation to that brief time when DBFZ disappeared from tournaments?







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"Re(2):EVO2K20 line up" , posted Fri 7 Feb 00:32post reply

quote:
Has there been any rumors as to why MK11 didn't make the cut? Was there some sort of disagreement with WB? Is this a similar situation to that brief time when DBFZ disappeared from tournaments?



There has been plenty of speculation, but I don't know of anything remotely official.

Speculation includes:
EVO hates Netherrealm and/or fans of NRS games. Several people cited vague claims of mistreatment of MK11 last year as evidence, as well as vague claims of previous disagreements between EVO and NRS. Because games with lower attendance and lower viewer counts made the 2020 line-up, Mk11 had to have been a victim of "politics"; no other possible explanation could exist.

In order to appeal to ESPN, MK11 was "core values"-ed out of the line-up.

Disney (which owns ESPN) objected to MK11 being promoted because it is heavily promoting DC's Joker as well as Image's Spawn.

Netherrealm decided it didn't need EVO, and will announce its own big plans for this year at Final Kombat next month.

On the other side, a few have said that while MK11 has higher attendance, viewer, and stream counts than included games, it is still a bit middling and interest had been dropping. (At least before the Joker reveal spiked interest again.) It wasn't a "must have" title in either viewer interest or actual game quality, and thus there needs be no conspiracy to explain its absence.





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"Examu and FK Digital closing soon." , posted Mon 10 Feb 19:17:post reply

Examu and FK Digital are closing down soon.

Examu will cease operations at the end of the month. Meanwhile, development, operation, and support in progress have been already taken over and continued by Team Arcana.

FK Digital ceased all development and will close at the end of March. They even cancelled Chaos Code NEXT.

Apparently, one of the producers of Chaos Code wrote a message of what have had happened.

quote:
I truly regret to inform everyone of this bad news, despite tweeting last week that I will try my best to continue the development of Chaos Code Next.

Lack of human resources and budget were always the long-term issue for the company—however the real reason why FK Digital had to make this tough decision is because of my current mental condition to the level that I cannot continue this job anymore.

If you have been following me or Chaos Code for many years, you may know that this title was created by myself—Mickey, together with my younger brother—Michael. Back in 2016, we announced the very first trailer of Chaos Code Next at Toushinsai (a major e-sports event in Japan).

Unfortunately, my brother Michael then passed away on December 25, 2017, due to illness. And we never made this sad news public, not even to the employees of FK Digital.

After I lost my brother, who was also the main director and the main force of Chaos Code development team, there were many times I thought of giving up the whole thing, but Chaos Code Next was the complete version of Chaos Code, and it was always our dream, for both Michael and myself, to fully finish the development of this title. To achieve this dream, people I really cared and loved supported me, and gave me the motivation to keep up. But recently, I lost their support, too.

Two years ago, I made the difficult decision to continue chasing our dream. And it was even more painful decision today. This decision would have disappointed many people for sure, but I mentally really cannot hold anymore. From the very first fighting game Michael and I made—Fighter’s Kyodotai, then Fighter’s Kyodotai Flash, Super Cosplay War Ultra, and till Chaos Code, for 20-plus years we never stopped making fighting games, my brother already took rest two years ago, maybe it is time for me to take a break now.

Same words again, taking a break is for accomplishing a longer journey. Hope we shall meet again sometime.



I would like to thank my parents for raising me and supporting my career. Only with such enlightened parents I could realize my dream of making video games.

Then there is my Japanese friend Sakura, who I met during my schooling in Australia. He was the teacher, who was making his own fighting game as a hobby, and then influenced us to start making fighting games.

Next is Mr. Kidooka, President of Arc System Works. Without his support and guidance, FK Digital could not have achieved such success today.

And of course, thanks to all business partners and FK Digital employees who we worked together, and to the arcade shops and players who supported Chaos Code for many years.

And finally, to my dearest brother, Michael, who had been with me for 38 years, grew up playing together and chasing dreams together. I will always remember him.

I truly thank everyone from the bottom of my heart.

Mickey Lin
February 10, 2020






"Lasciate ogne speranza"

[this message was edited by Yuki Yagami on Mon 10 Feb 19:19]



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"Re(1):Examu and FK Digital closing soon." , posted Mon 10 Feb 21:43post reply

quote:
Examu and FK Digital are closing down soon.

Examu will cease operations at the end of the month. Meanwhile, development, operation, and support in progress have been already taken over and continued by Team Arcana.

FK Digital ceased all development and will close at the end of March. They even cancelled Chaos Code NEXT.

Apparently, one of the producers of Chaos Code wrote a message of what have had happened.

I truly regret to inform everyone of this bad news, despite tweeting last week that I will try my best to continue the development of Chaos Code Next.

Lack of human resources and budget were always the long-term issue for the company—however the real reason why FK Digital had to make this tough decision is because of my current mental condition to the level that I cannot continue this job anymore.

If you have been following me or Chaos Code for many years, you may know that this title was created by myself—Mickey, together with my younger brother—Michael. Back in 2016, we announced the very first trailer of Chaos Code Next at Toushinsai (a major e-sports event in Japan).

Unfortunately, my brother Michael then passed away on December 25, 2017, due to illness. And we never made this sad new

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
This is all really unfortunate, especially about what happened with FK Digital. Putting aside the tragedy of losing a sibling, it's sad to see that smaller FG devs like Examu and FK Digital can't survive when they helped keep the genre afloat. I think these days, niche 2D fighting games are prospering, with the success of Under Night In-Birth and heck, can anyone really call Arc System Works niche at this time? SNK, while in some sense were never niche, are doing good, finally able to support 2 mainline games going with new KOF and Samurai Shodown games, and even Arika finally making their return to the genre with Fighting EX Layer.

It seems at least for Examu, there is still a different team that's relegated to working on Arcana Heart that'll seemingly still keep working on it.





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"Re(1):Examu and FK Digital closing soon." , posted Tue 11 Feb 07:37post reply

quote:
Examu and FK Digital are closing down soon.

Examu will cease operations at the end of the month. Meanwhile, development, operation, and support in progress have been already taken over and continued by Team Arcana.

FK Digital ceased all development and will close at the end of March. They even cancelled Chaos Code NEXT.

Apparently, one of the producers of Chaos Code wrote a message of what have had happened.

I truly regret to inform everyone of this bad news, despite tweeting last week that I will try my best to continue the development of Chaos Code Next.

Lack of human resources and budget were always the long-term issue for the company—however the real reason why FK Digital had to make this tough decision is because of my current mental condition to the level that I cannot continue this job anymore.

If you have been following me or Chaos Code for many years, you may know that this title was created by myself—Mickey, together with my younger brother—Michael. Back in 2016, we announced the very first trailer of Chaos Code Next at Toushinsai (a major e-sports event in Japan).

Unfortunately, my brother Michael then passed away on December 25, 2017, due to illness. And we never made this sad new

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --

This is all terrible news.
Am I being optimistic thinking the Examu=>Arcana is just a change of name and focusing on the project at hand? Are they going to be able to rebound and make a new game? Or are they just doing their best to honor the Kickstarter for the 3 people who care, and then finally go under for good?
In a just word, we would be getting a new game that would be as big of a jump as Melty Blood=>UNIEL was. After all, I can't imagine Examu to be that much bigger than French Bread... are they?





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"Re(2):Examu and FK Digital closing soon." , posted Tue 11 Feb 18:40post reply

quote:
This is all terrible news.
Am I being optimistic thinking the Examu=>Arcana is just a change of name and focusing on the project at hand? Are they going to be able to rebound and make a new game? Or are they just doing their best to honor the Kickstarter for the 3 people who care, and then finally go under for good?
In a just word, we would be getting a new game that would be as big of a jump as Melty Blood=>UNIEL was. After all, I can't imagine Examu to be that much bigger than French Bread... are they?


That's the speculation of the FGC right now.





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"Re(3):Examu and FK Digital closing soon." , posted Wed 12 Feb 01:10post reply

quote:
This is all terrible news.
Am I being optimistic thinking the Examu=>Arcana is just a change of name and focusing on the project at hand? Are they going to be able to rebound and make a new game? Or are they just doing their best to honor the Kickstarter for the 3 people who care, and then finally go under for good?
In a just word, we would be getting a new game that would be as big of a jump as Melty Blood=>UNIEL was. After all, I can't imagine Examu to be that much bigger than French Bread... are they?

That's the speculation of the FGC right now.


That's really sad news about FK Digital. The news out of Examu, however, is a bit more ambiguous. Was there ever much to Examu outside of the Arcana team? I hope Iggy's first guess is accurate but I'm afraid his second guess is closer to the truth and this is a winding down procedure.







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"Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Fri 14 Feb 04:02post reply

So what is the early consensus on GBFV? The few matches I've watched have been fairly straightforward affairs but I have heard that there are a host of option selects in the game due to attempts to make the inputs easier. Do people find the game fun to play? Is there going to be a competitive scene for GBFV? Are people treating it as an extension of the mobile game and waiting for their favorite characters to be added to the roster?





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"Re(1):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Fri 14 Feb 04:14post reply

quote:
So what is the early consensus on GBFV? The few matches I've watched have been fairly straightforward affairs but I have heard that there are a host of option selects in the game due to attempts to make the inputs easier. Do people find the game fun to play? Is there going to be a competitive scene for GBFV? Are people treating it as an extension of the mobile game and waiting for their favorite characters to be added to the roster?



Is it true that it uses a button for blocking?







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"Re(2):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Fri 14 Feb 17:38post reply

quote:
So what is the early consensus on GBFV? The few matches I've watched have been fairly straightforward affairs but I have heard that there are a host of option selects in the game due to attempts to make the inputs easier. Do people find the game fun to play? Is there going to be a competitive scene for GBFV? Are people treating it as an extension of the mobile game and waiting for their favorite characters to be added to the roster?


Is it true that it uses a button for blocking?



There's traditional hold-back-to-block in addition to a block button. The block button will block cross-ups automatically, but it has the unique weakness of making it so that any attempt to escape a throw within a certain window of using it results in a "late tech".

"Late tech" results in the person escaping the throw receiving a small amount of damage (like in old SF games!), but this damage cannot end rounds. It also puts them into a special stagger state during which they cannot act except for defensive things like blocking.

The "late tech" is a two-fold feature that I think is pretty clever: it allows them to make the throw escape window wider, but rewards the defensive player for reacting quickly / anticipating the throw correctly, while also providing a penalty for throw escape option select techniques that rely on late throw escape inputs. I think it's actually one of the more thoughtful adjustments to a long-standing fundamental 2D fighting game system in a long time!





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"Re(1):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Mon 17 Feb 14:52:post reply

quote:
So what is the early consensus on GBFV? The few matches I've watched have been fairly straightforward affairs but I have heard that there are a host of option selects in the game due to attempts to make the inputs easier. Do people find the game fun to play? Is there going to be a competitive scene for GBFV? Are people treating it as an extension of the mobile game and waiting for their favorite characters to be added to the roster?




So I've picked up the game and though I haven't had much time to play yet, it's pretty straightforward and simple. The big buzz right now is a proximitry option select that lets the player block or do a special/super depending on whether the opponent attacks, but that'll be deleted in an upcoming patch. There's also throw escaping option selects, but I can't think of many situations where they'll come to be abusable considering the game's system.

I think that all the characters in this game have their strong points and there's no characters deprived from winning. Right now the characters considered strongest are Gran, Feri, Katalina, Lancelot, the weakest is Bazaraga. Gran is like a Ryu on steroids, Feri is like a multi-function Dhalsim with cat ears and wearing more than just pants, Katalina is like the birthchild of Ryu and Samsho Charlotte, and Lancelot is like a Chipp with more durability and a strong rekka. Bazaraga is like an Abigail with a power wave. Charlotta and Metera were popular launch week characters but they're being sighted less from the game's second week I think.

Basically the game plays like a Street Fighter with a one-button block, and pressing it while holding back does a KOF94-style dodge which comes essencial to gameplay. Holding back can also block, just that the game was made for casual players in mind. The game also lets you do special attacks with just one button but there's cooldown time so it's not abusable. Doing special attacks with the traditional stick motion has less cooldown time, so normally that'll be the preferred method in normal situations for an experienced player.

Overall, jump-ins are slow and weak, so the gameplay is extremely ground-based; long-reach characters and projectile characters have advantage in that sense (also because EX moves in this game generally aren't projectile-invulnerable), which is why Basaraga is considered lower in the tiers. Matches are mildly paced but things can change very quickly because the combo damages are high. If you hit a jumping opponent with a grounded normal attack, you can juggle them into a combo for anywhere between 20-60% damage depending on character and screen location. It adds to the reason why this game is very ground-based, and you rarely witness air-to-air encounters like in KOF. For the same reason, this is about the only fighting game I can think of where it can be better to hit the opponent in the air rather than waiting for them to land when they've whiffed a dragon punch.

The throw system in particular is interesting; they're done with two buttons like most modern fighting games, and they can be done even while holding back-down on the stick, meaning you can try and block the opponent's move, and also go for both a throw or a throw excape while at it. As a countermeasure, the game features something akin to SF3rd's leap attack, which can be used as an answer to throws and also as an overhead; if it hits as a counter, you can go for a combo.

I think the ranking system in this game functions pretty well and keep players at the rank that they honestly belong to, reason being that it's easy to get downgraded. The ranking goes by Alphabets instead of points (SSS, SS, S, A, B, C), and each rank has 5 levels (SSS1-5, SS1-5, S1-5, A1-5, etc). Advancing a level requires 5 stars; you earn or lose a star for each match you win/lose, and winning 2 matches in a row seems to give you an additional star. So for example if you're at C5 and you want to advance to rank B(get to B5) , you'll need to earn 25 stars. And then you need to clear an advancement test where you need to win 3 of your next 5 matches. Once you're in rank B5, if you drop down to C1, you need to take the test again.

One point of appraisal for producer Fukuhara and the developers at Arc, while some characters received changes on their costumes from their original RPG, an unlockable option returns them to their authentic look. While it's unknown if the same option will be available in US & EU releases, it's certainly an idea to keep all fans happy. In a way, it feels almost like a callback to the B&B code from KOF94.





[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 17 Feb 17:06]



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"Re(2):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Tue 18 Feb 09:02post reply

Thanks for the thoughts! Now that everyone has switched over to trying to do weird Seth combos I haven't seen as much GB footage out there so it's good to hear a bit more about how the game is shaping up. The decision to make zoning characters so strong is interesting. For a game that's primarily built for single players it makes sense. The first instinct most players have is to run to the opposite side of the screen and toss fireballs. If the players who are primarily interested in the original GBF can get far against the CPU with those tactics they are going to be happy. I don't know if that mind-set will please competitive players but I suspect that ranked mode isn't as high on the to-do list.







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"Re(3):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Mon 2 Mar 04:09post reply

I'm normally not one to post social gossip but it's worth noting that the Yuka/Fuudo Victory Tour now features Akiman art. Oddly, this may also be the last big gathering of fighting game players in 2020.





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"Re(3):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Tue 3 Mar 10:17post reply

quote:
Thanks for the thoughts! Now that everyone has switched over to trying to do weird Seth combos I haven't seen as much GB footage out there so it's good to hear a bit more about how the game is shaping up. The decision to make zoning characters so strong is interesting. For a game that's primarily built for single players it makes sense. The first instinct most players have is to run to the opposite side of the screen and toss fireballs. If the players who are primarily interested in the original GBF can get far against the CPU with those tactics they are going to be happy. I don't know if that mind-set will please competitive players but I suspect that ranked mode isn't as high on the to-do list.



Actually, the main mode for single player in GBVS is a side scroller action RPG so I'm not sure if general fighting game strategies come into use. What's more important is I believe you can do 2 players with it online! I still haven't played it to make any good comments, which I hope to do so soon.

There's also an arcade mode of course, but there's about 5 levels of difficulty to chose from when you start off, so it shouldn't be too hard even for non-competetive players.

That still leaves the question "why'd they make the fireball game strong?". This is answerable in three parts:

1/ In other recent fighting games, projectiles are weak because there's generally a lot of EX moves that can go through them with the use of a meter. However in GBVS, EX moves can be done for free without meter, albeit there's a few seconds of cooldown time. Ergo, EX moves can be used a lot more per round than other fighters, which probably lead the developers to not give projectile invinicibility to most of them.

2/ Fireballs can be air blocked. There's also KOF94 style dodging and KOF96 style rolling. (Note: that's to say, the rolling in GBVS is as useless as in KOF96).

3/ Dragon Punches can also be air blocked except when they're EX moves or they're still on the ground.


So today the first DLCs get released, and in about two weeks the Steam version will be coming. After that will be the real fun, as people datamine and figure out all sort of goodies.







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"Character Gacha" , posted Tue 10 Mar 22:45post reply

Professional grifter game DoA6 has added a new character Tamaki. She has a fighting style similar to VF's Aoi and she also appears to be a blackout drunk. I like her already.

A new character is also coming to MK11, Cape! Cape appears to have an extensive move set and is very well animated for a NRS character. It's a shame Cape is bolted to a Spawn toy with poor articulation but nothing in this world is perfect.





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"Re(1):Character Gacha" , posted Wed 11 Mar 04:46post reply

quote:
Professional grifter game DoA6 has added a new character Tamaki. She has a fighting style similar to VF's Aoi and she also appears to be a blackout drunk. I like her already.

A new character is also coming to MK11, Cape! Cape appears to have an extensive move set and is very well animated for a NRS character. It's a shame Cape is bolted to a Spawn toy with poor articulation but nothing in this world is perfect.



Cape looks good, but I'm tired of guest fighters.

Tamaki, on the other hand, got me interested. So it seems the ladies from the DOA spin-off games will eventually be incorporated in the fighting games as well (meanwhile, Gen-Fu and Leon remain ignored)... considering how it doesn't look like Virtua Fighter is getting a new game any time soon, it's nice to see another game incorporate Aoi's fighting style. Even if not with the same grace Aoi has.





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"Re(2):Coronavirus Gacha" , posted Thu 12 Mar 06:54post reply

Multiple fighting game events in the western world are cancelling, some out of caution and some out of current legal statutes in their area. Norcal Regionals, a long-running and prestigious tournament, is cancelled as gatherings of greater than 1000 people are temporarily banned in their part of California.

I'm actually extremely excited for the AnimEVO side tournament this year, because somebody will be running an Eternal Fighter Zero tournament there. I don't expect the turnout to be huge even under the best of conditions, and even though it's over 100 days away under the current climate I'm sure it's in doubt.

I guess we'll all just have to self-isolate and play mobile games.







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"Re(3):Coronavirus Gacha" , posted Thu 12 Mar 08:06post reply

Maybe this will finally be the kick in the pants that the Japanese companies need to fix their netcode.

Then again, watching SFV finals with both players warping everywhere would be infinitely more entertaining...







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"Re(4):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Sat 14 Mar 11:46:post reply

quote:
in about two weeks the Steam version will be coming


Playing around with training/mission, I'm wondering how balanced the difference is between using simple and technical inputs.

My main concern is whether the devs even considered the differences between different technical inputs, particularly when nearly every character uses the same quarter-circles, dragon punches, and double taps. But two characters have charge moves, and charge moves are rather different in their up-front cost.

Standing out even more is Ladiva, who is given grappler inputs. There is relatively little difference between a single button input and a QCF+button input, but there is a pretty massive difference between a single button input and a 360+button input. Ladiva has exactly that option. While everyone else chooses between the "simple" QCF+button+button and the "technical" QCFx2+button for their desperation super, Ladiva's choice is between QCF+button+button and 720+button.


EDIT: Going into training, it looks like they both did and didn't think about it? There are balancing factors, but the effects appear to be blanket ones.

For (hold back/down) charge moves, there appears to be a blanket ~5 second penalty applied to the cooldown timer when using the simple input? Use the technical input and most charge moves have their cooldown end around the same time the move itself ends.

Projectiles deliver slightly less damage when performed with simple inputs. The technical input will net you roughly 15% more damage than the simple. (If you get 800 damage for the technical, you'll get 700 for the simple. If you get 350 damage for the technical, you get 300 for the simple.)

Ladiva's throws see much greater damage differences, +500 for specials and +1000 for supers. Perform the spinning powerbomb with the simple inputs and you'll get 1500/2000/2500 damage depending on which strength you use; perform it with the full 360 input and you'll get 2000/2500/3000. Perform Lavida's desperation super with the simple input and you'll get 4000 damage, but if you use the 720 input you'll get 5000 damage.

However, you can see that the throw damage difference was a simple blanket solution as it also affects the throw variation of Ladiva's super but not the regular hit version of the super, even though both versions use similar technical inputs. The "hit" version (QCF) does 3500 regardless of whether it is done with the simple or technical input. The "throw" version (QCB) does 3000 with the simple input and 4000 with the technical input, even though it is no more difficult to execute than the "hit" version.





[this message was edited by Baines on Sat 14 Mar 12:58]

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"Re(5):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Sat 14 Mar 13:50post reply

Has anyone picked up the PS4 ver yet? If so I am available for games. The Steam version is finally out, but unfortunately there is no crossplay.







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"Re(6):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Sat 14 Mar 19:47post reply

quote:
Has anyone picked up the PS4 ver yet? If so I am available for games. The Steam version is finally out, but unfortunately there is no crossplay.


I don't think I'll get Granblue, however I'm super happy to see that Uni[clr] will be released on Steam at the end of March instead of next year.
I've been trying to get into the game and force a friend of mine to learn it with me or face unspecified consequences, so that's just what I needed!
I haven't read the reactions of players to the [clr] revision, but I don't have much doubt it's going to be great.





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"Re(7):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Tue 17 Mar 01:36post reply

quote:
Has anyone picked up the PS4 ver yet? If so I am available for games. The Steam version is finally out, but unfortunately there is no crossplay.

I don't think I'll get Granblue, however I'm super happy to see that Uni[clr] will be released on Steam at the end of March instead of next year.
I've been trying to get into the game and force a friend of mine to learn it with me or face unspecified consequences, so that's just what I needed!
I haven't read the reactions of players to the [clr] revision, but I don't have much doubt it's going to be great.



Undernight is a title which I certainly enjoyed despite its complex combos, although unfortately I was too late to join the scene when its second release [st] came out. I do have it with [st>clr] update patch if anyone is interested in some matches, albeit on the PS4!







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"Re(8):Singing the Gran Blues" , posted Tue 17 Mar 02:17post reply

quote:
Has anyone picked up the PS4 ver yet? If so I am available for games. The Steam version is finally out, but unfortunately there is no crossplay.

I don't think I'll get Granblue, however I'm super happy to see that Uni[clr] will be released on Steam at the end of March instead of next year.
I've been trying to get into the game and force a friend of mine to learn it with me or face unspecified consequences, so that's just what I needed!
I haven't read the reactions of players to the [clr] revision, but I don't have much doubt it's going to be great.


Undernight is a title which I certainly enjoyed despite its complex combos, although unfortately I was too late to join the scene when its second release [st] came out. I do have it with [st>clr] update patch if anyone is interested in some matches, albeit on the PS4!



One thing that is very interesting about how UNI's combo damage scaling system works is that the highly flexible chaining system, big character size, and freeform juggling means that anybody can freestyle a combo, but also that the difference between optimal combos and beginner combos isn't too huge in terms of damage. A "good" combo that starts off a light hit will do 2500-3000 damage and give a knockdown or carry the opponent to the corner or both. A suboptimal combo done by flailing on the buttons will probably do 2000-2500 and not end with a hard knockdown. This is a HUGE difference compared to the likes of SF or other anime games or Tekken: in SF, a beginner to fighting games just pressing buttons will probably fail to do a combo at all!

In anime fashion, you can do combos that have looping sequences in them, but unlike other anime games re-use of the same move results in harsh additional damage scaling ("same move proration") across the board, whereas in most other anime games this usually only happens on particular moves. GGAC entertainingly had a move where successive re-use of the move worked in reverse, i.e. it did MORE damage with each usage to counteract combo damage scaling, in the form of Sol's Sidewinder!

The game has extreme lenience with picking people up off the ground, but has a strict limit on how many times you can do that or bounce someone off the wall in one combo. You can only jump cancel once in a combo, and quite unlike many other anime games, most moves can only be jump cancelled on hit and not on block.

I like how with Enkidu (or really anybody in the game) you can basically freestyle your own wallbounce loop!

MikeZ, the head engineer and gameplay designer of Skullgirls, said that "combos should be easy and reversals should be hard", which I don't entirely agree with, but UNI does a very good job of making combos very approachable and with more than just an autocombo button (though it has that, too, and it is actually important in higher level play). The one nuisance with this is that trying to come up with "good" combos is actually really tedious, since it's a lot of testing of many minor variations to come up with something substantially better than average.







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"Guilty Gear's main cast reunited" , posted Sun 22 Mar 18:58post reply

Not a surprise, but a pleasant news anyway. So pretty...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tjjkhd1WGs

Now that the mainstays of the first game are here, can we start getting anyone further? We still haven't seen anyone post GG, neither X, XX, Xrd or new...
I also wonder whether the lack of VA could be because of the virus taking its toll already.
Anyway. They can take their time as long as everything remains at that high quality.





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"Re(1):Guilty Gear's main cast reunited" , posted Mon 23 Mar 00:55post reply

quote:

Now that the mainstays of the first game are here, can we start getting anyone further? We still haven't seen anyone post GG, neither X, XX, Xrd or new...
I also wonder whether the lack of VA could be because of the virus taking its toll already.
Anyway. They can take their time as long as everything remains at that high quality.



I would be happy if they continue walking straight down this current path. They can pass by and let Kliff rest, if he likes. Otherwise, I'd be glad to have him. But if Testament and Baiken both make it in, I am very likely to buy a copy (though how much I'll actually play it would still be up in the air).

I don't anticipate the presence of Justice. Fortunately, our cruel world has taught me not to expect it.





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"Re(2):Guilty Gear's main cast reunited" , posted Mon 23 Mar 08:51post reply

I dislike that Millia now tends to dress in tan and other colors that too closely match her hair. With her old white/blue ensemble I could at least tell where the hair ended and Millia began. That said, the black blob that is Eddie pops off the screen surprisingly well.







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"Granblue FANTASY Versus" , posted Tue 24 Mar 21:04post reply

New character added, the daddy to end all daddies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dPK6apCBFk
Soooo.... apropos of nothing, how's the game? Not that I care about it, but... Asking for a friend.







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"Re(1):♂Gran♂blue♂FANTASY " , posted Wed 25 Mar 13:52:post reply

quote:
New character added, the daddy to end all daddies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dPK6apCBFk
Soooo.... apropos of nothing, how's the game? Not that I care about it, but... Asking for a friend.



Are you familiar with the source of his theme song?
SOIYA SOIYA SOIYA





[this message was edited by Spoon on Wed 25 Mar 13:53]



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"Re(2):♂Gran♂blue♂FANTASY" , posted Wed 25 Mar 20:25post reply

quote:
Are you familiar with the source of his theme song?
SOIYA SOIYA SOIYA

Yup!
I guess I'll wait for the other two to be added...







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"Re(3):♂Gran♂blue♂FANTASY" , posted Thu 26 Mar 07:51post reply

quote:
Are you familiar with the source of his theme song?
SOIYA SOIYA SOIYA
Yup!
I guess I'll wait for the other two to be added...


I now realize that part of my problem with GBF was its anemic roster. Now that the cast has become more beefy things are looking up. Once Djeeta -the actual main character- is added the game may finally feel like it has moved out of early release.







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"Re(4):♂Gran♂blue♂Calibur" , posted Fri 27 Mar 03:01post reply

Haohmaru makes his debut in SC6. I really like his stage.

In other news, the SNK World Championships were supposed to be this weekend. Are there any rumors about anything that SNK was supposed to reveal at the event? If so, will we hear about it this weekend in spite of the tournament cancellation?







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"Re(5):♂Gran♂blue♂Calibur" , posted Fri 27 Mar 05:40post reply

quote:
In other news, the SNK World Championships were supposed to be this weekend. Are there any rumors about anything that SNK was supposed to reveal at the event? If so, will we hear about it this weekend in spite of the tournament cancellation?


Sougetsu?







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"Re(6):♂Gran♂blue♂Calibur" , posted Sat 28 Mar 07:26post reply

quote:

Sougetsu?


Sougetsu is something... I guess. (This is my reaction to the trailer and Sougetsu in general.) Personally I was hoping for the moon and that we would get some small bit of KoF information. The ideal situation would be a title screen and some comically unfinished characters doing janky attacks but that's probably wanting too much.







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"Re(7):♂Gran♂blue♂Calibur" , posted Sat 28 Mar 08:09post reply

quote:

Sougetsu

quote:
I was hoping for the moon


:2ch_dandy:







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"Re(8):♂Gran♂blue♂Calibur" , posted Tue 31 Mar 23:12post reply

Djeeeta is finally coming to GBF. I'm looking forward to paying DLC prices for Ken in SF6.

Speaking of filthy DLC practices, Tecmo Koei threw DoA6 into a ditch and left it to die. Thank you for your understanding.







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"Re(9):♂Gran♂blue♂Calibur" , posted Tue 7 Apr 06:31post reply

Also, Haohmaru in SC6 quite impressively pays homage to multiple different versions of him. I feel like the people who are working on the Tekken and Soul Calibur games' guest characters have done really amazing jobs with all of them!





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"The Kombat is back" , posted Wed 6 May 23:32post reply

No, MK12 isn't coming anytime soon... instead, NRS will release an Aftermath expansion to MK11 this month.

What we know so far is that there will be a new Story Mode involving the DLC kombatants (well, the "kanon" ones), including Sheeva (who looks fantastic!) and Fujin, who will be added to the roster in this expansion. Robocop is also being included as a guest fighter, and Stage Fatalities are back... and so are FRIENDSHIPS!

I must say, it looks quite promising. And quite unexpected, too. If only Mileena was brought back as well... *sigh*





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"Re(1):The Kombat is back" , posted Thu 7 May 22:49post reply

quote:
No, MK12 isn't coming anytime soon... instead, NRS will release an Aftermath expansion to MK11 this month.

What we know so far is that there will be a new Story Mode involving the DLC kombatants (well, the "kanon" ones), including Sheeva (who looks fantastic!) and Fujin, who will be added to the roster in this expansion. Robocop is also being included as a guest fighter, and Stage Fatalities are back... and so are FRIENDSHIPS!

I must say, it looks quite promising. And quite unexpected, too. If only Mileena was brought back as well... *sigh*


I do hope they can keep Cary Hiroyuki-Tagawa around for future games because he's doing a great job of hamming it up. Between him and Peter Weller joining the cast MK 11 has fully turned into an interactive action movie from the 1980's. The Cannon movie logo should flash on the screen at the start of the game.

A minor thing, but in the trailer Robocop unholsters his gun from his left leg instead of the right on like he does in the movies. That annoyed me for some reason.

In other game news, Iroha is coming to SS. I'll be curious to see how she plays because this little teaser didn't make it look like she was doing much that Shiki doesn't already cover.





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"Re(1):The Kombat is back" , posted Thu 7 May 23:48post reply

quote:
No, MK12 isn't coming anytime soon... instead, NRS will release an Aftermath expansion to MK11 this month.

What we know so far is that there will be a new Story Mode involving the DLC kombatants (well, the "kanon" ones), including Sheeva (who looks fantastic!) and Fujin, who will be added to the roster in this expansion. Robocop is also being included as a guest fighter, and Stage Fatalities are back... and so are FRIENDSHIPS!

I must say, it looks quite promising. And quite unexpected, too. If only Mileena was brought back as well... *sigh*



It looks like MOST of those leaks from when the game came out were right. The lack of Ash Williams seems to be from a disagreement between Netherrealm and Bruce Campbell if social media is to be believed.

Robocop sounds fun in theory, but the guy just shoots his gun, stabs people with his spike/usb thing and throws people through windows. Gonna be a lot of weird animations to create to see Robocop fight. Him lifting his leg up to kick just seems wrong in my brain.

Also, they are going to have to be really creative with those customized costumes and move variations unless they really cut down on the amount for Robocop. Just off the top of my head it is just regular and battle damage, helmet and helmetless.





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"Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Mon 11 May 00:00post reply

I don't know if this should go here or the SNK thread, but Pikointeractive, who I absolutely never heard before, has acquired IP rights for Rage of the Dragons







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"Re(1):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Mon 11 May 01:17:post reply

quote:
I don't know if this should go here or the SNK thread, but Pikointeractive, who I absolutely never heard before, has acquired IP rights for Rage of the Dragons



Piko Interactive is a name that you'll probably run into more in the future. They've been around for a few years, relying on Kickstarter campaigns to raise funding for various retro game-inspired projects. They started with a physical SNES cart release of some homebrew games, but quickly branched into physical re-releases and (legal) PC releases of various old games, some previously cancelled/unpublished games, and translations of some niche games. They did a plug-and-play system for Wisdom Tree titles, and are one of the companies that has joined in releasing games (compilation emulation carts really) for the Evercade console. Last year, they decided to expand into a retro action figure line.

I'm a bit divided over whether they are ultimately a good or bad thing. On the good side, they've been bringing attention (and legal availability) to old games that otherwise would likely remain forgotten.

On the bad side, they are a Kickstarter-reliant company that has been dipping their toes into a lot of ponds. While Kickstarter mitigates some of the risks, they could potentially crash and burn, and who knows where the rights they've acquired will end up. Or maybe they'll just lose interest. They've brought a bit of visibility and availability to some old titles, but what futures do those titles have with Piko Interactive? Will they return to obscurity while Piko expands into new efforts and newer rights purchases?


My guess is that you won't be seeing any new Rage of the Dragons games. You'll just see a legally licensed emulations such as a Steam release. Maybe a physical cart re-release, but there probably isn't enough of a market for NeoGeo cart re-releases.





[this message was edited by Baines on Mon 11 May 01:22]

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"Re(2):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Mon 11 May 06:07post reply

quote:

My guess is that you won't be seeing any new Rage of the Dragons games. You'll just see a legally licensed emulations such as a Steam release. Maybe a physical cart re-release, but there probably isn't enough of a market for NeoGeo cart re-releases.



Looking at their catalogue on their site I agree, a digital re-release for some platform is the only realistic option.







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"Re(3):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Tue 26 May 05:14post reply

I also strongly feel they license as much as they can and then hope for the best. I find it incredibly difficult to believe they've actually got all the Rage of the Dragons rightsholders onboard. I'm prettttttty sure SNK owns a chunk of that after re-absorbing noise factory, and I am 100% certain they aren't licensing it out. But the situation might be murky enough that they won't mess with it? I feel like piko is treading dangerous ground.







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"Re(4):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 27 May 03:22post reply

quote:
I also strongly feel they license as much as they can and then hope for the best. I find it incredibly difficult to believe they've actually got all the Rage of the Dragons rightsholders onboard. I'm prettttttty sure SNK owns a chunk of that after re-absorbing noise factory, and I am 100% certain they aren't licensing it out. But the situation might be murky enough that they won't mess with it? I feel like piko is treading dangerous ground.



Wow, it's Brandon!

I also really wondered how the licensing of this would work at all... thanks for shedding some light on that, even if it just leaves more questions!







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"Re(5):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 27 May 04:09post reply

Come to think of it, SNK didn't have a problem going after Square Enix when their manga got out of hand. We may never hear of it but I suspect someone, somewhere is already discussing that Piko tweet.







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"Re(5):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 27 May 07:26:post reply

quote:

Wow, it's Brandon!



FACEBOOK DOT COM LINK

This was from last year (and i'm pretty sure it was posted here) but it should give you an idea how complicated stuff got during the development. Of note:

quote:
After Mr. Eikichi Kawasaki congratulate me personally while we were having the location test of RotD at the famous NEOGEO LAND, we knew it could be a better hit than we thought so we started to work on RotD 2. Unfortunately, due to a dispute over RotD rights, EVOGA couldn't have access to revenue from Asian market and by the time the game came out the market was already overflowing with bootlegs from China. The sells plunged and lead to Evoga's closure.


I was REALLY EXCITED for them because it was a Mexican team developing for NeoGeo, and I really wanted to see them do more stuff.

EDit:





[this message was edited by jUAN on Wed 27 May 07:30]



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"Re(6):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 27 May 22:59post reply

It's a shame what happened to Evoga, they were a group that had a lot of potential.

I always thought that Twitter was the worst place to post an interview but Facebook might take the cake.







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"Re(7):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 27 May 23:39post reply

quote:
It's a shame what happened to Evoga, they were a group that had a lot of potential.


The Angel origin story will always be the best thing to come out of that company. To be a fly on that wall when that bodying occurred.





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"Re(7):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Mon 1 Jun 02:55post reply

quote:
It's a shame what happened to Evoga, they were a group that had a lot of potential.

I always thought that Twitter was the worst place to post an interview but Facebook might take the cake.



Indeed. It's sad, really, because Rage of the Dragons was a great fighting game that deserved to get sequels.

Unfortunately, even with these news, I doubt there will ever be a new RotD. Which reminds me of The Rumble Fish, which was also a great fighting game that unfortunately got abandoned too soon (although it at least managed to get one sequel... I still don't get why Sammy abandoned this series).





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"Re(8):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Mon 1 Jun 04:37post reply

quote:
Which reminds me of The Rumble Fish, which was also a great fighting game that unfortunately got abandoned too soon (although it at least managed to get one sequel... I still don't get why Sammy abandoned this series).

Wasn't TRF2 supposedly very good, but it was never released on any home console so it was Atomiswave or nothing?
At least TRF1 got a PS2 release (with a character from 2 added, I believe?)

The only thing I remember in ROTD was that Pepe was hotter than any fighting game character before or since.





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"Re(9):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Mon 1 Jun 07:18post reply

quote:
Which reminds me of The Rumble Fish, which was also a great fighting game that unfortunately got abandoned too soon (although it at least managed to get one sequel... I still don't get why Sammy abandoned this series).
Wasn't TRF2 supposedly very good, but it was never released on any home console so it was Atomiswave or nothing?
At least TRF1 got a PS2 release (with a character from 2 added, I believe?)

The only thing I remember in ROTD was that Pepe was hotter than any fighting game character before or since.



Yeah, TRF2 was only released on Arcade (and I'm not sure if it actually was released outside Japan). TRF1 on the PS2 included two TRF2 characters, Hazama (not the one from BlazBlue) and Sheryl (not the rock singer).

And indeed, in a game full of sexy ladies such as ROTD, Pepe does manage to "out-sexy" everyone else on the roster. Dude looks great.





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"Re(9):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Mon 1 Jun 10:08post reply

yes, the rumblefish 2 is quite good! I played it a bunch with my friend who had an atomiswave, but it never got a port, so most people just know nothing about it. I think it'd be a cool one to re-release with good net code now, but I also imagine it'd make about $5.





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"Re(10):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 3 Jun 01:30:post reply

quote:
yes, the rumblefish 2 is quite good! I played it a bunch with my friend who had an atomiswave, but it never got a port, so most people just know nothing about it. I think it'd be a cool one to re-release with good net code now, but I also imagine it'd make about $5.



I recall that Dimps actually re-released it on NESiCAxLive about 8 years ago. They were making some slight hints back then on possibly expanding further with the franchise, which unfortunately never happened.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 3 Jun 06:16post reply

quote:
I recall that Dimps actually re-released it on NESiCAxLive about 8 years ago. They were making some slight hints back then on possibly expanding further with the franchise, which unfortunately never happened.



Oh yes, I forgot about that! If I recall they actually have the license, not Sega. Hmm. Maybe I'll talk to them about it some day.







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"Re(3):Re(10):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 3 Jun 06:47post reply

quote:
Oh yes, I forgot about that! If I recall they actually have the license, not Sega. Hmm. Maybe I'll talk to them about it some day.

What is Dimps doing nowadays? It feels like they haven't done anything in years...
Were they on Soulcalibur 6?







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"Re(4):Re(10):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 3 Jun 07:22post reply

quote:
Oh yes, I forgot about that! If I recall they actually have the license, not Sega. Hmm. Maybe I'll talk to them about it some day.
What is Dimps doing nowadays? It feels like they haven't done anything in years...
Were they on Soulcalibur 6?




They've been making Street Fighter games, honestly. They were one of the main developers of SF4, and I believe they are also a key developer of SFV. The presence of the V-Trigger system in particular felt very Rumble Fish (what with TRF's separate offense and defense gauges), and I always wonder if that was more their doing than the GG fellow's doing.

(they've also been making a myriad of other licensed games that are not super good, too)







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"Re(5):Re(10):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Wed 3 Jun 17:53post reply

quote:
They've been making Street Fighter games, honestly. They were one of the main developers of SF4, and I believe they are also a key developer of SFV. The presence of the V-Trigger system in particular felt very Rumble Fish (what with TRF's separate offense and defense gauges), and I always wonder if that was more their doing than the GG fellow's doing.

Yeah, that was my question.
I wonder what exactly is their involvement in a game. Do they work on the foundation, and once SF4/5/SC6 are released, they move on to another project while a skeleton crew under the license holder pilots contractors to keep pumping new characters and costumes?
Or are they still actively involved in creating the new characters of SF5, SC6, and at the same time possibly working on SF6 or whatever Capcom may be working on for next generation?







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"Re(6):Re(10):Rage of the licensed Dragons" , posted Thu 4 Jun 04:13post reply

quote:
They've been making Street Fighter games, honestly. They were one of the main developers of SF4, and I believe they are also a key developer of SFV. The presence of the V-Trigger system in particular felt very Rumble Fish (what with TRF's separate offense and defense gauges), and I always wonder if that was more their doing than the GG fellow's doing.
Yeah, that was my question.
I wonder what exactly is their involvement in a game. Do they work on the foundation, and once SF4/5/SC6 are released, they move on to another project while a skeleton crew under the license holder pilots contractors to keep pumping new characters and costumes?
Or are they still actively involved in creating the new characters of SF5, SC6, and at the same time possibly working on SF6 or whatever Capcom may be working on for next generation?



So this is actually a place where the credits of a game are useful!
mobygames link

There's pretty much no doubt that primary direction comes from Capcom, but similarly there is also no doubt that primary development of the game in engineering and implementation and in-the-trenches design work is at DIMPS. There is like one software engineering/programming credit on the Capcom side, and many on the DIMPS side. There's a decently-sized artist team on the Capcom side, but again overwhelmingly the asset artists are external to Capcom.

I imagine that given the balance of knowledge and expertise, without looking at the current credits scroll of the game, additional game content is similarly structured: overall direction (e.g. character choice) comes from Capcom, implementation of it is done at DIMPS. I'm sure the total team size at DIMPS maintaining the game now is certainly less than for the development of the game as a whole, but being able to get things out at a regular pace wouldn't be really possible without having some it done by DIMPS staff. The leanest skeleton crew possible to get the content done would almost certainly consist of some engineers at DIMPS coupled with whatever outsourced artists they had.







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"Ultra Documentary" , posted Thu 11 Jun 01:15post reply

Here's a documentary that's over ninety minutes long detailing the birth and rebirth of the leather-lunged shout-a-thon that is Killer Instinct.







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"Re(1):Ultra Documentary" , posted Thu 11 Jun 11:59post reply

quote:
Here's a documentary that's over ninety minutes long detailing the birth and rebirth of the leather-lunged shout-a-thon that is Killer Instinct.

It's important to yell ULTRA!!!!! ULTRA!!! ULTRA!! ULTRA! in descending levels of loudness whenever talking about classic Killer Instinct, the spirit of the announcer.

While I doubt I can handle 90 minutes of the most 90s American thing possible, it was less gory than other American offers like Mortal Kombat and managed to have a few attractive characters amidst the X-TREME 90s Fulgore types and raging church bell thumping megabass character select screen. KI2 had pretty neat music for Orchid's stage! In the minus column, it didn't have her famous striptease finisher that somehow worked on all the various non-human characters.





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"Re(2):Ultra Tiny Cabinets" , posted Thu 11 Jun 23:40post reply

quote:
While I doubt I can handle 90 minutes of the most 90s American thing possible, it was less gory than other American offers like Mortal Kombat and managed to have a few attractive characters amidst the X-TREME 90s Fulgore types and raging church bell thumping megabass character select screen. KI2 had pretty neat music for Orchid's stage! In the minus column, it didn't have her famous striptease finisher that somehow worked on all the various non-human characters.


The documentary did do a good job of highlighting some of KI 2013's accomplishments, such as tying the soundtrack to the combo system and how Iron Galaxy's unique characters took the game into a more interesting, Darkstalkers-like direction. However, like most documentaries, it tends to overstate accomplishments. KI was one of the first to go with the à la carte purchasing system but DoA Core Fighters actually beat it to the market. Then again, Tecmo-Koei often forget about DoA so it's not surprising that no one else remembers the series either.

In other news, Arcade 1 Up -the Funko Pops of arcade paraphernalia- are releasing two mini cabs based around Capcom's Marvel games. For reasons I don't fully understand, one of the cabs features SFC game X-Men Mutant Apocalypse.





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"Re(2):Ultra Documentary" , posted Fri 12 Jun 06:55post reply

quote:
Here's a documentary that's over ninety minutes long detailing the birth and rebirth of the leather-lunged shout-a-thon that is Killer Instinct.
It's important to yell ULTRA!!!!! ULTRA!!! ULTRA!! ULTRA! in descending levels of loudness whenever talking about classic Killer Instinct, the spirit of the announcer.

While I doubt I can handle 90 minutes of the most 90s American thing possible, it was less gory than other American offers like Mortal Kombat and managed to have a few attractive characters amidst the X-TREME 90s Fulgore types and raging church bell thumping megabass character select screen. KI2 had pretty neat music for Orchid's stage! In the minus column, it didn't have her famous striptease finisher that somehow worked on all the various non-human characters.



Heh, good point! It's particularly funny to remember that finisher didn't work if the opponent was another Orchid (I mean, Orchid would still flash her, but the other Orchid would just get angry), but it DID work on Riptor (who's actually female, even if she doesn't look very feminine)...

I was surprised to find out that Fatal Fury 2 and World Heroes were among the influences for KI; to me it always felt like a combination of Street Fighter's fluid playability (it even has three punch buttons and three kick buttons with different properties) and Mortal Kombat's violence and "edginess". In fact, this may be why KI succeeded; most MK clones put too much emphasis on the gore and too little attention on how they played, and ended up not being any fun to play. Killer Instinct, on the other hand, played better than MK, also bringing impressive graphics and fantastic music.

And it being less gory is something I actually prefer (as odd as this may seem, I like the MK franchise despite its violence, not because of it). Which is why I hope there will never be a MK/KI crossover; decapitations, dismemberments, eviscerations and such just don't fit with the more "subtle" (for lack of a better word) Ultimate finishing moves (which the developers even said that were done in a way to leave uncertain if the opponent really died or not).





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"Injustice for all" , posted Sun 21 Jun 01:58post reply

Injustice 1 is currently free for download. I suspect this is a case of getting what you pay for but, hey, it's a free game.







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"Re(3):Ultra Documentary" , posted Mon 22 Jun 00:22post reply

quote:
(as odd as this may seem, I like the MK franchise despite its violence, not because of it).
I am super-interested in this opinion! Just A Person, I am genuinely, non-sarcastically curious about what you like best about the series, and the Cafe is the only place where I ever peripherally encounter the to-me mysterious world of American-made fighting games. While these things don't do it for me, I could imagine the very 1980s-90s Mad Max extreme American action-violence design that would be fun for people, or maybe even the cultural curiousity of the "Asia as misinterpreted by Americans" designs, but it sounds like there's something else there? Has the gameplay gotten a lot better? In 16-bit days, I had the impression MK was mostly a button-masher.





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"Re(4):Ultra Documentary" , posted Mon 22 Jun 09:48post reply

quote:
(as odd as this may seem, I like the MK franchise despite its violence, not because of it). I am super-interested in this opinion! Just A Person, I am genuinely, non-sarcastically curious about what you like best about the series, and the Cafe is the only place where I ever peripherally encounter the to-me mysterious world of American-made fighting games. While these things don't do it for me, I could imagine the very 1980s-90s Mad Max extreme American action-violence design that would be fun for people, or maybe even the cultural curiousity of the "Asia as misinterpreted by Americans" designs, but it sounds like there's something else there? Has the gameplay gotten a lot better? In 16-bit days, I had the impression MK was mostly a button-masher.



It was, and I'd say its gameplay only improved by the time MK 2011 (or MK9, or MK Reboot) came out.

As for what made me interested in Mortal Kombat, I'd say it's a combination of factors. First of all, the nostalgia: back when I was a kid, the only fighting games accessible in Arcades or places to rent videogame cartridges were SFII and MK (SNK wasn't really popular until KoF'95, from what I remember, and attempts from other companies were even less likely to appear on these places), so I got attached to both. And while SF got to be my favorite fighting game series ever, for a long time it only got updates rather than proper sequels; meanwhile, it didn't take long for MKII and MK3 to appear.

Then, there's the storyline. Thanks to MK's popularity in Brazil (which came from its violence, yes), video game magazines would often publish many articles about it - and sometimes they would tell its plot (back then I didn't understand English, so these articles helped a lot). And as a kid, I was fascinated by it; while SF's characters would usually each have their own independent plot, the first MK already established two big rivalries (Scorpion vs Sub-Zero, and Sonya vs Kano). And as the new games came, the story also moved forward: the old sorcerer was actually a servant of a tyrant from another dimension, Liu Kang became Earthrealm's champion and defender, Sub-Zero returned from death - only for us to find out this was actually another person using the same name, with a noble heart, changing Scorpion's opinion... even kombatants who were dropped from game to game would leave some impact, like Sonya and Kano being chained in a coliseum in MKII (which made me wonder what happened to them and if anyone would rescue them), or Johnny Cage having a tombstone with his name in MK3's Graveyard stage indicating his death, or Kitana being mentioned on both Liu Kang's and Sindel's MK3 endings, and so on. It was sort of like a 1990s comic book.

Finally, there was the surprise factor, as each game seemed to have its share of secrets, from Reptile's random appearances between fights in MK1 to the "Kombat Codes" on MK3 allowing to change conditions on matches or even fight hidden kombatants. And since there was no Internet back then, most of the time we'd be caught completely off-guard whenever one of these secrets appeared.

Looking back, MK's story wasn't really anything special, the gameplay was bad (though at least it was playable, unlike most games that tried to jump on the violence bandwagon like Way of the Warrior), and most of its appeal (other than the violence) came from tactics that we'd consider cheap nowadays. But, well, it worked on me, and thanks to the story progressing from game to game, I remained interested in it until today.





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"Re(5):Ultra Documentary" , posted Tue 23 Jun 10:05post reply

quote:

Then, there's the storyline. Thanks to MK's popularity in Brazil (which came from its violence, yes), video game magazines would often publish many articles about it - and sometimes they would tell its plot (back then I didn't understand English, so these articles helped a lot).
Thanks a lot! This makes a ton of sense about enjoying the story and worldview. Even though Street Fighter has really well-defined characters, it's always been at its best when it has only the vaguest outline of a cheerfully stupid story (Zero, SFV), while it's been dreary (SSFIV anime) or completely uninteresting (SFIII) when it actually goes into detail. Sounds like MK has a lot of fun with its sort-of-Asia world, and what a blast to have something engrossing like a game world to learn English from!

Unrelatedly, I've been meaning to mention for a long time that I really love the "I could be anyone, even someone right next to you" theme in your signature. It's true, in a mysterious and kind of uplifting way!





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"Re(6):Ultra Documentary" , posted Tue 23 Jun 12:40post reply

quote:

only the vaguest outline of a cheerfully stupid story (Zero, SFV),



I actually think that SFV attempts to have too much of a story in its Story mode, and this is part of why it's so dumb and ineffective! While it has a few choice jokes in it, I had a hard time really enjoying it even as an SF fan. It has a great deal of story that it wants us to care about, but it's hard to care about it when it's told so poorly, and with so many story moments that rather than making us go "oh how mysterious" instead leave us going "well that was pointless" what with how much dialogue and exposition it does.

SF3 I think is much more in the vein of Zero and SF2 in that there is some vague bad guy and you don't even really know why he's a bad guy, but otherwise you get a story moment in the end where you learn roughly why the person who you just made beat up all sorts of people in the streets may have done so and what they care about. If anything SF3 has a lot less story than SFZ3/SFA3, where you actually got a big text introduction at the start of each character's arcade mode, in addition to some pre-boss dialogue, in addition to the closing scene!







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"Re(7):Ultra Documentary" , posted Tue 23 Jun 20:15post reply

quote:
I actually think that SFV attempts to have too much of a story in its Story mode, and this is part of why it's so dumb and ineffective! While it has a few choice jokes in it, I had a hard time really enjoying it even as an SF fan. It has a great deal of story that it wants us to care about, but it's hard to care about it when it's told so poorly, and with so many story moments that rather than making us go "oh how mysterious" instead leave us going "well that was pointless" what with how much dialogue and exposition it does.


It really depends on everyone, but I think one of the most important things in fighting games for me is: if a character is on the character selection screen, that character is "the hero".
Yes, you can tell me that Ryu and Terry and Kyo are more "the hero" than Hakan or Xianfei or Chin canonically, but as far as my personal experience of the game is, there is nothing to prove that until you start digging into extended universe stuff. And even the extended universe of old KOFs had short stories in Neo Geo Freak for each team, explaining what the team is looking for in this tournament, why the AoF team or the Women team's composition has changed this year, or why the American Sports Team isn't part of this tournament yet again. They flesh out all the characters equally.
I guess canonically Orochi was banished in 97 by Kyo, Iori and Chizuru, but if I want to think the Korean Team's ending of 97 is what really happened because that's the one I really like for some reason, nothing is going to contradict that in the game.
Which is why the story mode of SF5 is so bad: it suddenly forces you to acknowledge that your favourite character is actually not that important. On top of being poorly written and doing a terrible job in pushing the characters who were supposed to be the main focus (especially Nash and Necalli, but I can't say Ryu, Chun-li or Cammy are gaining anything out of this mess). I think the only character that comes out well from that mess is FANG? Maybe Juri and Rashid? And then Zangief has a memetic moment?

Compared to MK's attempts at having every character involved in the story and having their time to shine, the SF5 story is pretty terrible. And even MK's unlimited budget is not enough to create a cinematic story mode where each one of the 30 characters feels important, as seen in complaints from fans of Reptile, Kotal Khan and a few others. It really is a losing battle.

On the other hand, the character stories of SF5 work really well (butchered Bengus art aside). They are a tailored short story exactly at eye level with the character, and they flesh them out by giving them something to do with their lives. Even if nothing happens with them, something still kinda happens. Sagat is lured to the dark side and resists it. Dhalsim is doing work with his community, which is something we knew he was doing in-between games but now we actually see it. Sakura is having an adulting moment. And yeah, maybe Honda is not saving the world by head-butting into a nuclear reactor this time, but he's protecting the sanctity of good public bath manners, and from the character's point of view, I'd argue it's almost as important. You also get to see some characters from the point of view of someone else, even for minor characters such as Cody, who's shown through the lens of Lucia and Poison. There's nothing immensely groundbreaking in these interaction, and that's precisely the point: it's normal everyday stuff in characters you are familiar with, and that's good.
The first batch of characters have it worse because there were not enough characters in the game at that time to give them something meaning meaningful to do (and also the art was particularly bad), but as the seasons go on, that was the thing that I ended up looking forward to the most.
A similar thing happened in Skullgirls: the base roster was uneven, but as the kickstarter characters came out the scenarios became better and better until I ended up really caring for that world.

All in all, each character being the hero and each story being somewhat canon within itself is one of my favourite things in fighting game, and having one big cinematic canonical scenario mode detracts from it far too much. I hope SF6 goes on with the same per-character structure as the latest SF5 seasons, and uses the money wasted in the cinematic story mode in somewhere more meaningful, like more characters, more backgrounds, or a lewd Cody dakimakura.





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"Re(8):Ultra Documentary" , posted Wed 24 Jun 21:11post reply

quote:
It really depends on everyone, but I think one of the most important things in fighting games for me is: if a character is on the character selection screen, that character is "the hero".
Yes, you can tell me that Ryu and Terry and Kyo are more "the hero" than Hakan or Xianfei or Chin canonically, but as far as my personal experience of the game is, there is nothing to prove that until you start digging into extended universe stuff.
(...)
All in all, each character being the hero and each story being somewhat canon within itself is one of my favourite things in fighting game, and having one big cinematic canonical scenario mode detracts from it far too much. I hope SF6 goes on with the same per-character structure as the latest SF5 seasons, and uses the money wasted in the cinematic story mode in somewhere more meaningful, like more characters, more backgrounds, or a lewd Cody dakimakura.


Agreed! I don't hate cinematic story modes, but I do prefer this structure of choosing your own protagonist, no matter if each character is only the protagonist in their own canon (like Killer Instinct's Season 1 - by the way, the multiple endings there were a nice feature as well) or if all stories can coexist in the same canon (like Killer Instinct's Season 2). Hopefully the success of MK and Injustice won't make all fighting games adopt the single cinematic story mode from now on.

---
quote:
Unrelatedly, I've been meaning to mention for a long time that I really love the "I could be anyone, even someone right next to you" theme in your signature. It's true, in a mysterious and kind of uplifting way!


Heh, thanks! Originally I did intend to portray myself as a mysterious figure (hence the signature)... nowadays the idea is really to be "just a person", as in just another guy in the board.





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"Re(9):Ultra Documentary" , posted Thu 25 Jun 16:05post reply

One of the things I quite liked about SFA3 was that it did just that with whoever you picked being the "hero", regardless of whether or not their endings contradict one another.

Of course this is why to this day I will tout the notion that the ideal setting for this sort of ensemble cast is not in a sprawling Avengers-esque adventure, but in a bar where conversations with many or a few can happen and characters can float in and out of the proceedings naturally, with every tall tale letting somebody else be the hero or the butt of the joke.

Really, I think one of the problems with trying to establish a "canon" at this point with all these characters who ought to be legendary figures in their own right is that it doesn't take into account how fact and fiction about them ought to be thoroughly muddled at this point. Chun Li is the Jackie Chan-esque supercop, and the tales of what she may have done should be far exaggerated beyond what she actually has done. Ryu has managed to remain dirt poor for 30 years, in spite of being the world's greatest warrior. Dictator has probably been NEETing it up with all his realdolls, but nobody wants to bring it up because it's so awkward. Sakura works a minimum wage job in a dying sector and is probably wondering whether or not begging Karin for a job as a concubine training partner is beneath her dignity. And so on.







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"Re(10):Ultra Story Mode" , posted Fri 26 Jun 10:17post reply

quote:
And yeah, maybe Honda is not saving the world by head-butting into a nuclear reactor this time, but he's protecting the sanctity of good public bath manners
Dictator has probably been NEETing it up with all his realdolls

This reminds me that while we all know that Sodom's heroic kamikaze ending is the only true ending of SF Zero 3, Honda's heroic headbutt ending where he teaches dolls to sumo wrestle is the second most important and likely possibility!!

Now that I've heard these good points from Just a Person, Spoon, and Iggy, I'm totally on board with future Street Fighters (and other games) only doing character-specific mini-stories and scrapping the main cinematic story modes, even if SFV's was so hilariously dumb and Zangief's scene was so joyfully magnificent (the most I'd laughed at a SF game in nearly twenty years, since Zero 3) that I'd forgotten it was mostly not very good and completely ignored Nash.

It's totally true that everyone should feel like the hero, even if the next entry in the series chooses one of the (inevitably least interesting) character's story to follow. SF Zero 2 actually did it best with character-specific mid-bosses and final bosses, but SFV's character story mode almost gets it perfect, as Iggy says, if only they'd stuck these segments in an actual arcade mode instead of structuring them around some mindlessly unloseable single-round battles.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Ultra Story Mode" , posted Sun 28 Jun 03:14post reply

I've been jumping around like a long-tailed cat in a rocking chair factory this week so I didn't have time to respond to this thread until now. However, I did want to say I found it immensely interesting. One of the strengths of fighting games is that any character in the cast is the de facto main character when you play. How many other games give you over a dozen different protagonists? This is also why, like Iggy, I prefer the character vignettes to long, rambling story modes that try to tie everything together into one narrative. I'm currently goofing around with Injustice 1 (I should talk about it elsewhere since it plays like a fighting game from bizarro-world) and I doubt I'll ever play what is apparently a robust story mode. This means I can only make inferences about the story based on the character endings but that may be for the best.







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"Re(3):Re(10):Ultra Story Mode" , posted Sun 28 Jun 04:54post reply

To add another stone to the list: I think Tekken truly lost me when they decided the scenario should stop being silly-fun and should become silly-dead-serious.
I loved the silly rivalries, the telenovela aspect of it all, and while characters in 6 still had a story, the fact it happened during world war 3 because Jin something something demon from outer space and millions of people had to die in the background (literally, in the fighting game meaning of "background") made it all a bit... vain. Of course, people did die during the previous ones, I'm sure Brian probably killed a few thousand people with his bare hands one day he was bored, but it was less "this is actually seriously happening right now you know". It really doesn't help to focus on the whereabouts of some lovable kangaroo divorcee.
And then Tekken 7 decided to focus the scenario on a different character who's not even playable and if they're not even trying neither shall I.

On the other hand, the Soulcalibur writers have been trying their best to keep doing their own thing with the miserable budget they've been given since 2, and while they've been constrained by their lack of funds (everything happening in side-novels, or not at all in the case of 5), 6 finally allowed them to tell their story properly. It might not be a great story, it's still heroic-fantasy schlock with living swords, and young kids fighting gods with the power of friendship, and a super-intelligent alchemist needing months to figure out that the guy who sacrifices children every day for breakfast might actually be the bad guy, but it's well told, fun and Azwell is the FANG/Shang Tsung the series lacked.
It might be the only series that didn't even try to tell a non-canon "this is what would happen if your character was the hero" ending for everyone, and instead insisted on tying every character to the story (even the guests), and yet they managed to make it so that everyone get their time to shine.
Except Mitsurugi.







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"Re(4):Re(10):Ultra Trailer Mode" , posted Mon 29 Jun 07:12post reply

Zato and Millia trailer.

I like that Eddie now has more white and red in him which makes him a lot easier to see what he is actually doing instead of just being a black blot splattered all over the screen. He also has a bit more personality this time out, what with him clapping along on the sidelines and attacking opponents with a sharknado.

Millia is everything I hate about ArcSys animation in one package.







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"Re(5):Re(10):Ultra Trailer Mode" , posted Mon 29 Jun 20:03post reply

quote:
Millia is everything I hate about ArcSys animation in one package.

What is going on with the neutral poses in this game. Ky was bad too.
I don't remember them being so bad in Xrd?
I understand you rarely stay in neutral in this game, so it's not a huge issue, but also, why bring even more attention to it then.







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"Re(6):Re(10):Ultra Trailer Mode" , posted Tue 30 Jun 01:21post reply

quote:
Millia is everything I hate about ArcSys animation in one package.
What is going on with the neutral poses in this game. Ky was bad too.
I don't remember them being so bad in Xrd?
I understand you rarely stay in neutral in this game, so it's not a huge issue, but also, why bring even more attention to it then.



The one problem I have with Millia's animations in this outing is that there are too many lines on her hair attacks, and because Millia is often cancelling the attacks rapidly, the overall result is that it appears very noisy.

The one jumping attack where it looks like a pair of spiked balls come out is particularly bad in the "too much line" department because it appears so briefly and seems so indistinct.







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"Japanese characters in Street Fighter" , posted Mon 13 Jul 23:48post reply

After another tired discussion about representation, I started thinking about representation in Street Fighter. Not about minorities or rare nationalities in video games, but "majority" representation: Japanese characters (since the series is still developed by a mostly Japanese team).
Ryu is our normal point of view character. Cliché, shônen hero, few characteristics besides being black belt in ganbaru. Retsu and Geki were tropes, but the main point of the game was for Ryu/the player to get out of the archipelago, travel the world, and beat the strongest people from the strongest country (Thailand). He's similar to Hayato in Star Gladiator, Justice Gakuen's Batsu, Soulcalibur's Mitsurugi, KOF's Kyo, etc. He's the character that has to be there for anything to start.
I'm not sure how Honda was seen by Japanese people in 1992, but I suspect it was a much more favorable view than in the west "LOL naked fat dude". Sumo as a sport is still regarded positively as far as I know, and while the mix "Sumo+Kabuki+Onsen" might have been a bit weird, nothing about it is particularly offensive, and I would even expect older players at the time might have favored Honda over Ryu. Gôki is technically Japanese, though he's barely human so I'm not sure how much he counts in term of "representation".
Next one is Sodom Guy, who, again, stoic cool dude, very anime, easy self-insert if you're a tryhard teenager. I won't count Satsui Ryu (and Oni) for obvious reasons.

Then things change radically. All the following Japanese characters are cute underage girls. Maybe Sakura's overwhelming popularity at the time is to blame, but after 6 Japanese adult dudes (two of whom didn't really stick, so only 4 mainstays), we have 5 Japanese girls in a row, all of them popular (except maybe Mika? She was dealt a bad hand in Zero3 and is much more interesting in 5, so I wouldn't be surprised she joins the top 20 when they ask "who do you want us to call back in SF6). They're all very different and I don't want to sound like I criticize any of them (they're all among the most interesting characters in the games they were introduced), but the shift is... interesting. Even the new background characters are all women: after Gôken and Gôtetsu during the "male" period, we have Satsuki from the dolls, Sakura's best friend, Mika's teacher...

Then the series died, 10 years pass, everyone stop playing videogames to get a job, and then Street Fighter 4 happens. Among the 10 dreadful new characters, only one Japanese: Gôken (not even a real new character, but rather someone from a half-forgotten setting being retconned). SF5's new characters are immensely better, but again, only one new Japanese character, also resurrected from FF2's background: Zeku. Two of the oldest guys of the entire franchise, two masters, but falling a bit on the side, both being without students (Ryu has long surpassed Gôken, and Guy has taken Zeku's mantle). Zeku's desperate act to remain relevant can also be read in this light (do you think the striders of the future still use fax machines?).

I'm not sure where I'm going with that. This is obviously not the reason why SF fails to attract a young audience in Japan, the issues are far bigger than that and Capcom seems to have decided they are far too big to bother fixing. Street Fighter has always been international after all, it just became so international Japan stopped being part of the conversation even though they were the ones initiating it.
But I find interesting that the new popular girls introduced in this new period (Juri, Hakan, Menat) are knee-deep into Japanese anime clichés. They could have been the new Sakura or Ibuki... and yet neither of them are Japanese. Instead, Japan got old washed-out dudes, both being very obvious one-offs that are not expected to appear in any future game except as cameos.
If that's how Capcom views their domestic audience, no wonder they're entirely focused on the west.

On the other hand, the US, Capcom's main market, was graced with Rufus and Ed during that period, so maybe I'm reading too much into all that.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Ultra Trailer Mode" , posted Tue 14 Jul 02:13:post reply

quote:
Millia is everything I hate about ArcSys animation in one package.


I couldn't help but to notice that her coat looks like saran wrap around her stomach area. The artistic expression just looks very odd.

quote:
After another tired discussion about representation, I started thinking about representation in Street Fighter. Not about minorities or rare nationalities in video games, but "majority" representation: Japanese characters (since the series is still developed by a mostly Japanese team).
Ryu is our normal point of view character. Cliché, shônen hero, few characteristics besides being black belt in ganbaru.
<snip>
I'm not sure how Honda was seen by Japanese people in 1992,



Honda was ok, not really popular compared to Ryu but people did use him. To give a little background on when the game came out, there was a huge Sumo fad in Japan during the early 1990s and that may have been one of the contributing factors to Honda being in the game. Of course though, the fad didn't seem to help Honda getting used more often; super-casual players picked Chunli over Honda since she looked better and likewise had a button mash move, but players that got more used to the game picked Honda because of his headbutt invincibility. Players in Japan didn't really care too much about character nationality, the same way so as when they're reading a manga. Of course people neither hated or laughed at Honda-- after all who can hate a sumo wrestler that's into Tiramisu which was the big thing covered by magazines back at that time? That, and he had that bear hug.

As for Capcom only coming out with old Japanese characters for the past decade or so, I think the bigger underlying point is that they haven't really made any original male Japanese fighter, period. The later characters in the series were all legacy designs by the time they were implemented into the game. The reasons might be worth some speculation.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Ultra Trailer Mode" , posted Tue 14 Jul 06:40post reply

quote:
Millia is everything I hate about ArcSys animation in one package.

I couldn't help but to notice that her coat looks like saran wrap around her stomach area. The artistic expression just looks very odd.



I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out, and I now realize it's because my eyes were looking at everywhere BUT there, and her arms are often covering that part of her torso. It's really bizarre, I entirely agree. Maybe they thought that having this thick trenchcoat was concealing too much of her sexiness, but that just looks like an incongruous mistake rather than one of GG's typical wacky incongruous elements.







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"Big in Japan" , posted Tue 14 Jul 09:19post reply

When was the last time KoF introduced a new Japanese character? Hein? It's a good thing SS is so focused on its historical anime aesthetic so Yashamaru could be added to the roster.

But as for SF, has any SF game really focused on the shonen trope of "young Japanese boy goes out into the world and makes a name for himself" since SF1? When Chun-Li became the biggest thing in video games Capcom apparently decided that the World Warrior subtitle of SF2 was the way to go. Having SF be a Japanese perspective on an international adventure was such a successful formula that its never changed course since. The characters in the ansatsuken storyline (plus the occasional ninja) serve as the Japanese focus of SF but they aren't the overriding main plot. Is the international focus of both the game and marketing the reason that there haven't been a lot of new, young Japanese guys added to the game? Is it Capcom's reluctance to use the SNK formula of periodically replacing their protagonists with newer, even skinner guys? Is Capcom saving all its designs for young Japanese fighters for a new Justice Gakuen game? Who knows?







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"Re(1):Big in Japan" , posted Tue 14 Jul 16:37post reply

quote:
When was the last time KoF introduced a new Japanese character? Hein? It's a good thing SS is so focused on its historical anime aesthetic so Yashamaru could be added to the roster.

But as for SF, has any SF game really focused on the shonen trope of "young Japanese boy goes out into the world and makes a name for himself" since SF1? When Chun-Li became the biggest thing in video games Capcom apparently decided that the World Warrior subtitle of SF2 was the way to go. Having SF be a Japanese perspective on an international adventure was such a successful formula that its never changed course since. The characters in the ansatsuken storyline (plus the occasional ninja) serve as the Japanese focus of SF but they aren't the overriding main plot. Is the international focus of both the game and marketing the reason that there haven't been a lot of new, young Japanese guys added to the game? Is it Capcom's reluctance to use the SNK formula of periodically replacing their protagonists with newer, even skinner guys? Is Capcom saving all its designs for young Japanese fighters for a new Justice Gakuen game? Who knows?



Another way to look at it:
If you were to just evaluate the cast based on the vague criteria of "high school age or younger", the last time SF added a new character that was "young" was in SF3 with Elena, Ibuki, Makoto, and Sean. We'll omit the labgrown fellows like Tweleve because youthfulness is not a significant element of their character. Yun and Yang run a restaurant and seem like they'd be at the lowest high school senior aged.

In SF4, all of the newcomers are adults, and some of them are outright parents of children.

In SFV, the newcomer Ed is ostensibly a teenager. He didn't arrive until Season 2, so in the base game, none of the characters are high schoolers. Probably the youngest character is Karin, since she and Sakura recently finished high school.

I think this is in sharp contrast to KOF, which often introduces new characters who deliberately have youthfulness as a primary character element in each new revision. SF since SF2 has basically always been grown-ups, with youths being the outliers. KOF has plenty of adults and elderly, but youthful characters seem to always be a sizeable chunk of the roster, if not story-central characters. KOF certainly also has little-kid type characters, like Bao, which SF has really only had as non-playable characters (e.g. Necro's partner Effie).

Perhaps this is the true story that SF has made for itself in this post-arcade landscape:
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"Re(1):Big in Japan" , posted Tue 14 Jul 16:39:post reply

quote:
When was the last time KoF introduced a new Japanese character? Hein? It's a good thing SS is so focused on its historical anime aesthetic so Yashamaru could be added to the roster.


That would probably be Momoko from KOF11 (Hein is from Germany).
Which reminds me, the weird thing with KOF is that the top tiers in the KOF franchise seem to generally be either an asian character or a character of unknown nationality. Germany however is one of the exceptions. I don't think it's intentional, but that's seemingly how the game goes.

I was going to continue on about how there's no top tier USA character in KOF for example (leaving aside 97's Terry), but then I remembered there was Alice....





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"Re(2):Big in Japan" , posted Wed 15 Jul 01:06:post reply

quote:
No Cabinet For Old Men
Amazing.

It's true, too. I remember English-language press around the time of Zero 2 emphasizing the arrival of the younger Sakura as unusual---sure, the school uniform was part of her appeal, but there was also the vague suggestion that it was surprising to suddenly have this kid in a roster of grown adults.

While the in-game art took on a much more traditionally "anime" look starting with Zero and continuing thereafter (as usual, we'll ignore whatever SFIII was trying to do, other than brilliant animation of boring characters), it's worth remembering Professor's point about how SFII's original designs are very much in the "gekiga" style of more serious and less stylized manga designs. I think that started fading out pretty quickly with the promotional art by Kinu and friends, but it's definitely the starting point and true of all the in-game art for SFII, so the adult protagonists make sense.





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"Re(2):Big in Japan" , posted Thu 16 Jul 01:01post reply

quote:

I think this is in sharp contrast to KOF, which often introduces new characters who deliberately have youthfulness as a primary character element in each new revision. SF since SF2 has basically always been grown-ups, with youths being the outliers. KOF has plenty of adults and elderly, but youthful characters seem to always be a sizeable chunk of the roster, if not story-central characters. KOF certainly also has little-kid type characters, like Bao, which SF has really only had as non-playable characters (e.g. Necro's partner Effie).


It's odd, characters like Abel and Rashid are probably the same age as, say, Benimaru but they come across much differently. Not only is a good portion of the KoF cast young but the way the characters are drawn and presented emphasizes their youth. In contrast, even the high school girls in SF5 such as Ibuki and Menat are built like Tetsuo Hara protagonists.


quote:

That would probably be Momoko from KOF11


Wow, Momoko was so bad that Japan has been banned from having any new participants in KoF!





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"Re(3):Big in Japan" , posted Fri 17 Jul 02:48:post reply

quote:
It's odd, characters like Abel and Rashid are probably the same age as, say, Benimaru but they come across much differently. Not only is a good portion of the KoF cast young but the way the characters are drawn and presented emphasizes their youth. In contrast, even the high school girls in SF5 such as Ibuki and Menat are built like Tetsuo Hara protagonists.


It's quite different indeed, probably a series culture difference-- Street Fighter started out, as Maou said in Gekiga/realistic style art, whereas KOF started out with a style that looked more like male fashion models and encorporated characters from their other gekiga-style games (FF, AOF) into that.


And that still doesn't really explain Momoko's existance in the KOF series. A Kapoiera kid who can shoot a lazer beam for no reason. SNK as a company had so many ups and downs that nobody was around to stop developers from throwing in their oddball brainstormed creations.





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"Re(4):Big in Japan" , posted Fri 17 Jul 08:01post reply

quote:
SNK as a company had so many ups and downs that nobody was around to stop developers from throwing in their oddball brainstormed creations.



And KOF is all the more better for it. People still remember K9999, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who even knew El Fuerte was a thing.







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"Big in Capcom Pro Tour" , posted Wed 22 Jul 14:48post reply

The costumes are kinda whatever, but the concept for the new stage is truly hilarious!

Alternatively, Gill is actually a huge fanboy of various SF characters, and that's why he commissioned statues of them. What a nerd.







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"Re(1):Big in Capcom Pro Tour" , posted Wed 22 Jul 23:19post reply

quote:
The costumes are kinda whatever, but the concept for the new stage is truly hilarious!

Alternatively, Gill is actually a huge fanboy of various SF characters, and that's why he commissioned statues of them. What a nerd.


A better shot of the stage from SF Japan. You may have thought that subset of fans who buy things like body pillows were taking it too far but they have nothing on Gill! Here I have always viewed Gill as an uninteresting bore. But if he commissioned a giant statue of Zangief and Alex wrestling in the nude I may have to reconsider my thoughts on the guy.





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"Re(2):Big in Capcom Pro Tour" , posted Thu 23 Jul 04:55post reply

quote:
The costumes are kinda whatever, but the concept for the new stage is truly hilarious!

Alternatively, Gill is actually a huge fanboy of various SF characters, and that's why he commissioned statues of them. What a nerd.

A better shot of the stage from SF Japan. You may have thought that subset of fans who buy things like body pillows were taking it too far but they have nothing on Gill! Here I have always viewed Gill as an uninteresting bore. But if he commissioned a giant statue of Zangief and Alex wrestling in the nude I may have to reconsider my thoughts on the guy.



Looking at Guile's statue, it seems Capcom may be unaware of certain SFV mods around...

But what really caught my attention is: why are there both Egyptian AND Greek statues in this stage? It seems the "World Warrior" concept dates back to ancient times.





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"Re(1):Big in Capcom Pro Tour" , posted Thu 23 Jul 04:55post reply

quote:
The costumes are kinda whatever, but the concept for the new stage is truly hilarious!

Alternatively, Gill is actually a huge fanboy of various SF characters, and that's why he commissioned statues of them. What a nerd.



The stage appears to combine elements of Gill's New Generation stage (ancient Egyptian elements) and his 3rd Strike stage (ancient Greek elements) and they just clash horribly.

Also, is the flat lighting an issue with the engine or just the way the SFV team works. There are no shadows on those illuminati goons standing next to Gill.

At least with a new CPT pack the previous pack should go down to $10, I want to get the Final Fight inspired stage.







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"Re(2):Big in Capcom Pro Tour" , posted Thu 23 Jul 05:20post reply

quote:
The costumes are kinda whatever, but the concept for the new stage is truly hilarious!

Alternatively, Gill is actually a huge fanboy of various SF characters, and that's why he commissioned statues of them. What a nerd.


The stage appears to combine elements of Gill's New Generation stage (ancient Egyptian elements) and his 3rd Strike stage (ancient Greek elements) and they just clash horribly.

Also, is the flat lighting an issue with the engine or just the way the SFV team works. There are no shadows on those illuminati goons standing next to Gill.

At least with a new CPT pack the previous pack should go down to $10, I want to get the Final Fight inspired stage.



The first time I saw the hooded guys, I thought they were cardboard cutouts of the hooded guys that Gill put on the stage due to how they are lit/shadowed versus the other elements on the stage.

I think if they can't afford to actually render shadows for them in real time on the stage, then baking out an animated texture of their shadow and sticking it onto a quad on the ground or something would be a good compromise, because the lighting on them gives a really strange sense.







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"Re(3):Big in Capcom Pro Tour" , posted Thu 23 Jul 21:03post reply

I don't think the Greek and Egyptian elements clash with each other, it's not like the civilizations were separate (and often gods of one pantheon were added to the synchretism of the other). Plus, the Egyptian statues look like people, not gods, so they could very well be Gill's predecessors.
I'm more annoyed by the fact the two Greek statues are very obviously Athenas and it doesn't make sense there would be two of them, but honestly, I've probably put more thought in this post than Capcom in the entire cultural background of the stage.

Lightning has been an issue in SF5 since the beginning and it's not going to be fixed at that stage (except if they decide to expand the life of the game well into the PS5 and make a massive update of the engine, but that would be really weird). Maybe if the fighting game division is doing so poorly internally that SF6 is cancelled and they have no choice but focusing on SF5 until their last breath?







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"Street Fighter 1 article" , posted Sat 25 Jul 09:26post reply

Interview with all sorts of people ranging from Western arcade operators to directors of the time around the first Street Fighter game and the time following its release

Cool stuff!

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"Re(1):Street Fighter 1 article" , posted Sun 26 Jul 07:11post reply

quote:
Interview with all sorts of people ranging from Western arcade operators to directors of the time around the first Street Fighter game and the time following its release

Cool stuff!

Tatsu ga Gotoku?


Thanks for the link!

I appreciate that the writers are trying to get their articles published as a book. It would certainly make for easier reading than the endlessly scrolling page of their current format. But the book might come with its own theme song? That's a feature sadly missing from most printed works.





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"Re(1):Street Fighter 1 article" , posted Sun 26 Jul 22:50post reply

quote:
Interview with all sorts of people ranging from Western arcade operators to directors of the time around the first Street Fighter game and the time following its release

Cool stuff!

Tatsu ga Gotoku?



Thank you for posting this!







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"Fighting Games Roundtable" , posted Mon 27 Jul 21:44post reply

From the sounds of it most everyone is going to be at this love-in. It will be interesting to see what they think about the current state of the genre and where it is headed in the future.







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"Re(1):Fighting Games Roundtable" , posted Mon 27 Jul 23:54post reply

quote:
From the sounds of it most everyone is going to be at this love-in. It will be interesting to see what they think about the current state of the genre and where it is headed in the future.


If online isn't the first thing brought to this table then they might as well call it quits.







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"Re(2):Fighting Games Roundtable" , posted Tue 28 Jul 06:59post reply

quote:
From the sounds of it most everyone is going to be at this love-in. It will be interesting to see what they think about the current state of the genre and where it is headed in the future.

If online isn't the first thing brought to this table then they might as well call it quits.



Personally, I hope that it isn't just them each presenting what they would've presented at EVO in turn, and is actually a real discussion between them about subjects they actually think are important in their niche.





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"Re(3):Fighting Games Roundtable" , posted Wed 29 Jul 10:42post reply

quote:

Personally, I hope that it isn't just them each presenting what they would've presented at EVO in turn, and is actually a real discussion between them about subjects they actually think are important in their niche.



That would be way more interesting, I'd be really interested if that were the case.





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"Re(4):Fighting Games Roundtable" , posted Wed 29 Jul 21:35post reply

quote:

Personally, I hope that it isn't just them each presenting what they would've presented at EVO in turn, and is actually a real discussion between them about subjects they actually think are important in their niche.


That would be way more interesting, I'd be really interested if that were the case.


Because Capcom is sending both the producer and director of SF5 I'm hoping that there will actually be some interesting discussion of the industry. If it was just a group advertisement they probably would have sent poor Ono out there to do his thing.





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"Re(5):Fighting Games Roundtable" , posted Wed 29 Jul 23:38post reply

quote:

Because Capcom is sending both the producer and director of SF5 I'm hoping that there will actually be some interesting discussion of the industry. If it was just a group advertisement they probably would have sent poor Ono out there to do his thing.



Last time I heard, Ono is reduced to some position in the eSports department. Yeah, he's pretty much reduced as a figurehead now.

The current crew running SF5 now after Ono is relieved of his producer duties are Ryozo Tsujimoto and Shuhei Matsumoto.





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"Re(6):Fighting Games Roundtable" , posted Sun 2 Aug 02:54post reply

For whatever reason I sat down and watched the roundtable. A few quick thoughts.

Good: The reveals of Setsuka and the GG characters were appreciated. The discussion segment ended up being more interesting than the announcement section. The methods for roster selection and the changing ways players play fighting games were illuminating.

Bad: Most of the announcements ended up being announcements of future announcements. But between the numerous delays caused by COVID-19 and the last-minute decision to do this event that is forgivable. What was less forgivable was when the group discussion fell back on stock answers. When the discussion turned to online issues the responses were the same old thing we've heard since 2009.

Ugly: I suspect everyone from Bandai-Namco is going to be sent to a meeting with the HR department bright and early Monday morning.







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"Re(7):Fighting Games Roundtable" , posted Mon 3 Aug 05:24post reply

/unlurk self

Now that she's been revealed for SC6 with a shiny new design mishmash that is neither classic nor new, it brought me back to thinking about the inexplicable change to Setsuka's design between SC3 and SC4. In SC3, her hair was brunette. In SC4 it was blonde. It's said that in her original design, they gave her blonde hair but somehow decided against it when deciding on her SC3 look. Yet she shows up in SC4 with blonde hair and no story explanation as to why. What serious development caused them to backtrack on this?

My theory is that people in Japan just didn't think she looked foreign enough, but is it really that simple? How did Japan interpret this character, anyway?







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"Re(8): Setsuka Calibur" , posted Mon 3 Aug 11:17post reply

quote:
/unlurk self
No, it was all destiny in order to summon you to the next lagfest (see SFV thread now printing), a tale of swords and sou...anyway.

As for Setsuka: there's a lot going on here. If like most sensible people you ignored the detailed backstory for Soul Calibur III, it was more or less possible in-game to forget Setsuka was supposted to be a Westerner taken in by a Japanese master, or whatever it was. I don't recall her having a foreign accent in Japanese, and she didn't look any less Japanese than, say, Taki. The blond hair was a more obvious signal for that character design point, and since III had already introduced the awful pastel-neon green-pink color palette garishness into the series, IV didn't have much problem amping it up in IV.

For better or worse, the new character designer for VI could mold Setsuka's fairly weak original design into something more typically "anime," so you could read it as trying to salvage a character who was pretty low-profile. All it does for me is remind me of how whereas Soul Calibur II's only bad character designs were due to the inexplicable inclusion of the Spawn guy, Soul Calibur III is where new designs jumped the visual shark with both distinctive-looking mistakes like Tira and undistinguished mistakes like Setsuka.





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"Re(8):Fighting Games Roundtable" , posted Mon 3 Aug 20:40post reply

quote:
/unlurk self

Now that she's been revealed for SC6 with a shiny new design mishmash that is neither classic nor new, it brought me back to thinking about the inexplicable change to Setsuka's design between SC3 and SC4. In SC3, her hair was brunette. In SC4 it was blonde. It's said that in her original design, they gave her blonde hair but somehow decided against it when deciding on her SC3 look. Yet she shows up in SC4 with blonde hair and no story explanation as to why. What serious development caused them to backtrack on this?

My theory is that people in Japan just didn't think she looked foreign enough, but is it really that simple? How did Japan interpret this character, anyway?



Good question. I used to assume she somehow dyed her hair black in SCIII to make herself look "more Japanese" (though I'm not sure if it was even possible to dye hair back then), and by SCIV she had accepted and embraced her situation as a foreigner and let her hair return to its natural color. But considering SCVI takes place between SC and SCII (if I recall correctly), my theory is probably wrong, otherwise her hair would still be black here.





Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.