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| Maou 2815th Post
  
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|  "ironic FFVII remake love/hate thread" , posted Sat 20 Jun 04:00  
Now that the Neogaf FFVII remake thread has reached 150 pages of excited people with bad taste, I can't avoid it any longer. Time for a mostly mean-spirited FFVII thread about what should and shouldn't happen with the game. Then again, even if it's the weakest Sakaguchi Final Fantasy, it's still a nice call-back to the 90's internet fan scene and the early Cafe, so maybe something nice will come up.
My special director's cut will soley feature the Midgard section up until the shitty Shin-Ra tower, cut immediately to the Nibelheim flashback/Sephiroth secretly "dies" part, then consist exclusively of Cid yelling furiously at people for the rest of the game.
all previous hate/love (hate) still applies quote:
This guarantees that people with bad taste will get exactly the remake they deserve. I guess there finally was no longer any choice but total pandering once they realized that XV was on the brink of its first decade.
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FF7 is nowhere near my favorite RPG but it's not my most hated FF either so I would totally play a remake.
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I guess I'm curious to see how they'll handle Cloud in drag, and maybe all those forgettable random encounter monsters which could get away with looking silly because they were filler on the way to get to Sephiroth.
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You keep your filthy hands off of VI, Nomura, or I am calling the police!
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DON'T YOU KNOW NOMURA'S IN THERE!!!
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I know it's easy to hate on Nomura cos he's not as amazing as say Amano or Terada or other super world class artists, but I think he's a very solid artist in his won right, and I really respect SquareEnix for consistently putting their visual artists in the spotlight.
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Rank garbage like Advent Children
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Iggy 9931th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):ironic FFVII remake love/hate thread" , posted Sat 20 Jun 05:36
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In an interview where they talk about if he'd do other remakes, people were trying to get Nomura to talk about VIII or IX, but instead he said that he didn't like how they skipped over V and VI, implying that he would like to see them remade. Which also shows that he is not acknowledging the ugly mobile ports of said games, thankfully.
This... may not end well.
What FF7 needs is an asymmetric online version, like that shooter Evolve. All the players play alone and try to follow the story normally and eventually save the world. But a select few play as Yuffie, who can invade random players' games, steal all their materia regardless of the point they are in the game (including during a boss fight), and then run away while the previous player is stuck without any way of reaching her and has to start all over again.
Also, an alternate Dirge of Cerberus that happens in a world where the party didn't get Vincent. You spend 20 hours inside your coffin, in the dark, and then the credits rolls.
Regardless of my general dislike of FF7, my love for fighting game crossovers is too strong to not keep track of the new Dissidia. Hopefully this time they will go beyond the main characters and villains and start to dig forward. For example, I wouldn't mind to play Lydia from FF4, or Faris from FF5 if they manage to get her design right.
Well, I would probably hate playing the game period, but knowing that interesting characters are in the game would be nice.
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| Maou 2817th Post
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| "Re(4):ironic FFVII remake love/hate thread" , posted Sun 21 Jun 06:52:
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I could never quite figure out what was happening in the storyline and then I finally found this one-page manga (ja).
It covers it remarkably well! Which sadly reminds me why 90% of the game and all sub-characters who aren't Cid should be cut, per my wonderful director's cut ("Now with less game!").
It was originally going to be a lot more of a police story in Midgard, which was going to be New York, you know. You think I'm crazy, but I'm pretty sure that was the original concept draft. I would play that!
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You spend 20 hours inside your coffin, in the dark, and then the credits rolls.
Heheheh.
I also would like to capture this Neogaffer for the Cafe because his/her opinions on the subject are accurate and hilarious:
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Par Score:
FF7 is pretty low down the list of Great Final Fantasies, but it's right at the top of the list of Great Final Fantasies That Look Like Ass.
It sits in a perfect sweet spot of jank-ass graphics, jank-ass translation and jank-ass gameplay, that makes nostalgia goggles completely incompatible with the experience of actually going back and replaying it.
FF6 and earlier are probably going to be exactly as you remember them if those are your jam. FF8 and later are also not as far down the jank curve, on top of generally being not as well loved.
FF7 is a perfect storm of jank-nostalgia.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sun 21 Jun 08:22] |
| Maou 2823th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(10):ironic FFVII remake love/hate thread" , posted Wed 24 Jun 05:51:
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if Nomura is driving I'm getting off. To wait for the MIDNIGHT TRAIN BACKYARD YEAH
HECK YEAH. Reminds me, I think you and me and JJJ are supposed to play Guilty Gear but I just moved, gotta unpack it.
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There really is a lot to like about the game.
When I'm not in death-to-VII mode, I really do love the level of detail in Midgard, and the cleverly constructed interactive Nibelheim/Sephiroth "dies" memory sequence at the inn. VII is sort of like Revenge of the Sith. In the right mood, it can feel super cool and exciting, even if in more sober moments you realize it's dumb compared its forebears.
Too bad there are so many off-notes (Aerith dies and is forgotten for hours, and soon the idiots are having fun snowboarding), loose ends (maybe they shouldn't have buried major story explanations for Cloud's past and archenemy Jenovain in obscure libraries, or forgotten about the human costs of bombing missions for THIRTY HOURS until the end), sloppy FMV inconsitencies, and a damn boring/backward world outside of Midgard.
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Barret is like Mr. T as a banchou character with metal bands replacing the cloth wraps. That's totally cool. How could you not see that as cool.
Heheh. Remember Cid's limit break where he lights a stick of dynamite with his own cigarette and throws it at people? Relatedly, maybe another reason for the enthusiasm towards the game is that the characters are all sort of reducible to dumb, "cool" focus points instead of the more interesting designs prior and since. Big swords, gun hand, robot cat, vampire...
What would your re-edided version look like? 300% more airtime to apoplectic Cid is a given.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Wed 24 Jun 06:03] |
| nobinobita 1521th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(6):ironic episodic cyber hats" , posted Tue 8 Dec 12:26
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In today’s Famitsu interview with Tetsuya Nomura and Yoshinori Kitase, they confirmed that CyberConnect 2 will be developing the Final Fantasy VII Remake.
What's the problem? At least the remake will be as fun to play as the .hack games..
Depending on who you ask, this is an improvement.
Let's not forgot Asura's Wrath! Nobi can at least be happy~ (I should have played it.)
I have to admit, I enjoyed the art direction for Asura's Wrath but didn't necessarily enjoy the gameplay. Same goes for most Cyberconnect2 stuff.
I think FFVII will be a good property for them though, especially if it's episodic. Cyberconnect2 are best at making games with great presentation and simple controls with varied gameplay depending on the scenario. Their best example of this isn't Asura's Wrath, but actually their Naruto games.
For instance, the 9 Tails battle in Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 was a great boss fight. This is how Final Fantasy boss battles should play out in a realtime game. The controls were streamlined in a way that was both cinematic and engaging. When you run left or right you don't just move a few steps, you leap over buildings. But you're still in control, it's not just a QTE. The level of control is the same, but the scale of movement and damage is upped drastically.
That's what Cyberconnect is especially good at. Scale.
A lot of people are comparing the FFVII remake to the recent Hobbit Trilogy, that really really didn't need to be a trilogy.
I think the difference is that, although The Hobbit weighs in at over 300 pages, it can also easily be read in 2 cozy, lazy days.
Meanwhile FFVII was a 60+ hour long RPG for the average person that played it. There's a lot of content in there. It's easy to forget how experimental and inventive the game actually was. I mean, there were 26 different mini games in there! One of them was arguably the first Tower Defense game!
Considering the absurdly high fidelity they are going for, it's not unreasonable to split the game up into pieces. I mean, in Japan it's ok to price the game higher, but people in the US would riot if it came out with a $100+ asking price haha.
More scattershot observations on FFVII remake:
-I don't actually like how the characters look that much.
-Advent Children and FFXV have a much better blend of realism and stylization
-The way the faces are done in FFVII remake are a bit too realistic, they clash with the clothing which is still rather iconic. This makes the characters feel like they are cosplaying.
-Barrett should be buffer and he shouldn't wear sunglasses at night. Who decided on that??
-This is really nitpicky but I hate how slow Cloud is to stand up after dramatically cartwheeling from the train. In the original game he cartwheels and lands on his feet running so fast you barely notice. His agility is something he takes for granted, it's so natural. In the cinematic trailer he gets up slowly like an asshole who knows everyone is watching him. Haha sorry, but I just hate modern cinematic conventions like this that actually detract from character building for the sake of keeping the audience engaged with cheap camera tricks.
-I'm disturbed at how many hits it takes to kill a Shinra goon, the weakest enemy in the game. Every action game should have a weak enemy that takes one hit to kill, instead of 2 full auto combos. When you finally run into an enemy that takes a full combo to kill, it feels more powerful. When you get strong enough to down that enemy in one hit later, you feel more powerful. For the love of god, Devs please stop assuming that every enemy in every game should be a damage sponge! I'm pretty sure the grunt soldiers died in one hit in the original too.
-I'm still looking forward to this remake though. I hope it turns out alright!
www.art-eater.com
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| Mosquiton 2105th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):ironic episodic cyber hats" , posted Tue 8 Dec 16:10
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-I'm disturbed at how many hits it takes to kill a Shinra goon, the weakest enemy in the game. Every action game should have a weak enemy that takes one hit to kill, instead of 2 full auto combos. When you finally run into an enemy that takes a full combo to kill, it feels more powerful. When you get strong enough to down that enemy in one hit later, you feel more powerful. For the love of god, Devs please stop assuming that every enemy in every game should be a damage sponge! I'm pretty sure the grunt soldiers died in one hit in the original too.
I very much agree with your premise here, and this is something I have thought a lot about, but my opinion differs just a bit on the particulars.
This kind of thing has a huge impact on how a game feels. In a beat'em up or combo-based game, I prefer that even the weakest peon politely remain standing and react with convincing bodily distress as I continue a combo. Should I see fit to stop beating them, they may be allowed to go down. Should they actually be knocked to ground or propelled into a wall twenty feet away by the overwhelming force my attack, going down and staying down is fully expected. For God's sake man, have some sense of decorum!
I can definitely agree with your "one-hit" philosophy in most games involving presumably deadly weapons. To think that a huge, sharpened sword or even a dull one... like maybe you had to repeatedly knock away a heavy ball and chain while protecting Casca when you were halfway through slaying a hundred men or something... or maybe you just borrowed it from your friend Zack....
Anyway to think that a massive blade that's taller and probably weighs more than the poor bastard it's slamming into, a monster of a sword that you are whipping through the air like Ichiro Suzuki or Barry Bonds would swing a hollow plastic wiffle bat, would take than one hit to dispense with a common grunt is already a hell of a stretch. To see them get back up after being flung across the room by a goddamn windmill swing that looks like it would stop a charging bull is just ridiculous. It is, at the very least, extremely poor form. Badly done, fellows. You are not even fit for Power Rangers Putty Patrol.
Yet according to modern game design wisdom, having that lowly opponent, who could probably not best you in combat were you to put your controller down for three full minutes to use the bathroom... for that weak-ass punk to get back on his feet like he had just been taking a smoke break, defiantly raise his puny, standard-issue weapon and ask, "Please sir, may I have some more?" is just one more addicting opportunity for the player to unload another identically animated combo into his apparently unbreakable, unrendable, but oh-so-damage-absorbent body and watch goddamned numbers fly out of them. Maybe you'll even score some sick crits, producing integers so large that they mostly obscure the physical impact of your hits! Better add some flashy particle effects, too! Now you can't even see the thing you're hitting anymore, but you know that he's got to be feeling like, tens of thousands of hit points worth of hurt... like this guy's grandkids are going to be using hi-potions every morning before they go to school that shit stings so bad. Truly this is, like, the true glorious feeling of wagering one's life in battle, ya know? SOLDIER represent!
...
In the immortal words of River City Ransom, "BARF!"
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| nobinobita 1522th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(8):ironic episodic cyber hats" , posted Thu 10 Dec 12:11
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-I'm disturbed at how many hits it takes to kill a Shinra goon, the weakest enemy in the game. Every action game should have a weak enemy that takes one hit to kill, instead of 2 full auto combos. When you finally run into an enemy that takes a full combo to kill, it feels more powerful. When you get strong enough to down that enemy in one hit later, you feel more powerful. For the love of god, Devs please stop assuming that every enemy in every game should be a damage sponge! I'm pretty sure the grunt soldiers died in one hit in the original too.
I very much agree with your premise here, and this is something I have thought a lot about, but my opinion differs just a bit on the particulars.
This kind of thing has a huge impact on how a game feels. In a beat'em up or combo-based game, I prefer that even the weakest peon politely remain standing and react with convincing bodily distress as I continue a combo. Should I see fit to stop beating them, they may be allowed to go down. Should they actually be knocked to ground or propelled into a wall twenty feet away by the overwhelming force my attack, going down and staying down is fully expected. For God's sake man, have some sense of decorum!
I can definitely agree with your "one-hit" philosophy in most games involving presumably deadly weapons. To think that a huge, sharpened sword or even a dull one... like maybe you had to repeatedly knock away a heavy ball and chain while protecting Casca when you wer
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
This guy gets it!
www.art-eater.com
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| Maou 3001th Post
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| "Re(8):ironic episodic integer displays" , posted Thu 10 Dec 14:34:
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Yet according to modern game design wisdom, having that lowly opponent, who could probably not best you in combat were you to put your controller down for three full minutes to use the bathroom... for that weak-ass punk to get back on his feet like he had just been taking a smoke break, defiantly raise his puny, standard-issue weapon and ask, "Please sir, may I have some more?" is just one more addicting opportunity for the player to unload another identically animated combo into his apparently unbreakable, unrendable, but oh-so-damage-absorbent body and watch goddamned numbers fly out of them.
Mosquiton for President! So very true. One of the many reasons why all 3D action games which are not God Hand are stupifyingly boring is how long it takes to get anything DONE for all the punching, numbers, or punching AND numbers that must be accomplished before wasting a peon.
It's like fighting games for people who don't know how to do an input.
It's like that weird mode in the home version of...Street Fighter Zero 2 (??) where a normal move input would produce the super version instead if you had meter.
It's like how the duel between Darth Vader and Ben Kenobi is exciting in the first Star Wars because it lasts for 45 seconds, whereas it's dumb and boring in Revenge of the Sith because it lasts 5 minutes.
It's like the Cookie Clicker-ization of games.
Despite the appeal of finally getting to see Midgard outside of its slums, will the FFVII remake add excitingly new dimensions of disappointment to FFVII's legacy of mediocrity via endless display of integers and level 1 bad guys who just won't die? Stay tuned! Reminds me of Tim's review of FFXIII: quote:
Numbers were, in the early days of the role-playing game, a placeholder for some more-effective future means of communicating the awesomeness of an attack. In Final Fantasy XIII, you will never see an enemy’s total hit points: you will, however, see the shit out of the amount of HP being subtracted with each attack. The stronger the attack, the bigger the numbers. The bigger the numbers, the bigger the . . . numerals. The numerals themselves grow in size, turn gold, begin to glow and gleam. The growth, goldness, and gleam of the numerals indicates to us that the game designers might understand, on some subconscious level, that using the graphics is the key to enhancing the effectiveness of the game’s communication of damage to the player. God, helping these people clean up all the little inconsistencies in the game design would be about as much fun (and gum-destroying) as brushing your teeth eight hours a day.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Thu 10 Dec 15:57] |
| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "FFVII oral history" , posted Wed 11 Jan 10:59
Saw this through Karasu, but he's not here right now, so! Polygon has rare look in English at the development background to FFVII. Seriously unfortunate article layout (though the prose-form Amano section is predictably the best), and VII is still a pretty weak Final Fantasy, but it's a fascinating look at the times, creative-business nexus, and technological shifts.
Posting it in this thread because if FFXV, of all things, actually came out, can the equally chimerical FFVII remake be far behind?
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| PSN: robotchris
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| "Re(1):FFVII oral history" , posted Thu 12 Jan 01:41
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Saw this through Karasu, but he's not here right now, so! Polygon has rare look in English at the development background to FFVII. Seriously unfortunate article layout (though the prose-form Amano section is predictably the best), and VII is still a pretty weak Final Fantasy, but it's a fascinating look at the times, creative-business nexus, and technological shifts.
Posting it in this thread because if FFXV, of all things, actually came out, can the equally chimerical FFVII remake be far behind?
OH! You beat me to it!
Yes, this is a fascinating article! I've been outspoken about my deep dislike for FFVII (but I've acknowledged its influence on games in general), but reading this almost ALMOST makes me want to try playing it again to see if I still dislike it.
I was surprised at how frank some of the people interviewed were since I though Japanese game devs were notoriously tight-lipped about processes like the ones discussed here.
I makes me wish that Polygon would take a crack at this sort of thing for more games!
You have to carefully reproduce the world of "Castlevania" in the solemn atmosphere.
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"Re(2):Re(10):ironic FFVII remake love/hate th" , posted Fri 26 Jun 07:33
