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badoor
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"Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Mon 4 Aug 01:31post reply

I've been wanting to get a SEGA Saturn for years now, ever since my old US one permanantly broke & I sold all the games I had. But college and life got in the way. Now, I finally got one, with a bunch of games. So I wanted to use this occasion to start a general SEGA Saturn thread, talk about the best games it had, the abysmal support it got in NA/PAL regions, whether the Saturn's legacy as a console with arcade-perfect SNK/Capcom/etc. ports is now diminished thanks to more recent ports on PS2, Wii, PS3, Xbox 360 etc. Or just remind ourselves that the Saturn had the very best marketing campaign of any product ever.

Secretly, though, I'm hoping I could use this thread to get recommendations (perferrably for games that are very import friendly for a man with zero knowledge in Japanese). All the games I own are in that picture above. But if that picture is too blurry and messed up thanks to my nearly broken camera lens, here's a list of the games I currently have.





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Maou
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"Re(1):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Mon 4 Aug 01:58:post reply

Hop in Chrono's time machine and fly with me to a thread from eras past! Chaz made a dynamite list of everything, though perhaps this thread would be a good chance to separate out what's heavy on text and what's not.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 4 Aug 02:00]

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"Re(2):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Mon 4 Aug 03:02post reply

quote:
Hop in Chrono's time machine and fly with me to a thread from eras past! Chaz made a dynamite list of everything, though perhaps this thread would be a good chance to separate out what's heavy on text and what's not.



2 posts in and I'm already tempted to derail the thread. Why?
The first game on Chaz's alphabetically ordered list is Assault Suit Leynos 2, sequel to a game that is dear to my heart, Assault Suit Valken.

It's worth mentioning that 6 of chaz's "get these 10" are Japanese intensive.





badoor
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"Re(2):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Mon 4 Aug 03:08post reply

quote:
Hop in Chrono's time machine and fly with me to a thread from eras past! Chaz made a dynamite list of everything, though perhaps this thread would be a good chance to separate out what's heavy on text and what's not.

Thanks, I forgot about that thread (even though I did post in it). I realize that a Sega Saturn topic comes up in the cafe about as commonly as Castlevania is mentioned in the random threads. But I still went through with a new htread anyway .





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karasu
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"Re(3):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Mon 4 Aug 04:10post reply

quote:
Hop in Chrono's time machine and fly with me to a thread from eras past! Chaz made a dynamite list of everything, though perhaps this thread would be a good chance to separate out what's heavy on text and what's not.
Thanks, I forgot about that thread (even though I did post in it). I realize that a Sega Saturn topic comes up in the cafe about as commonly as Castlevania is mentioned in the random threads. But I still went through with a new htread anyway .


Haha, I even put in a clueless, stilted-sounding early appearance in that thread! Hilarious.

I still love my Saturn, but yeah, I think some of its allure as a fighting game perfect port device has been lost since that thread, certainly. I'd personally say go for the weird and sometimes not fantastically-aged fighters like Rabbit, Astra Superstars, and even Suikuenbu Fuunsaiki. And I'll also note that Chaz's excellent list misses one game that's very dear to me, Silhouette Mirage, which is most definitely worth getting, and that received a PS release outside Japan. And I've finally decided that Taroumaru isn't necessary for my existence (thanks to the intervention staged by Maou, Professor, and Maese) so I can't in any way condone buying it at the typically ludicrous asking price. I would say that Symphony of the Night's Saturn version might be worth it at a reasonable price. It's not great, but the additional items, areas, and monsters are worth seeing, especially if you're a big fan of the game.






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Maou
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"Re(4):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Mon 4 Aug 04:43post reply

quote:
I would say that Symphony of the Night's Saturn version might be worth it at a reasonable price.
And because Karasu knows I'm a mean-spirited complainer in real life, I would say that the Saturn version is to be avoided because all the additions are kind of lame and out of place except for Maria, I suppose. The Saturn version is the "Star Wars Special Edition" of this game.





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"Re(5):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Tue 5 Aug 00:20post reply

quote:
I would say that Symphony of the Night's Saturn version might be worth it at a reasonable price. And because Karasu knows I'm a mean-spirited complainer in real life, I would say that the Saturn version is to be avoided because all the additions are kind of lame and out of place except for Maria, I suppose. The Saturn version is the "Star Wars Special Edition" of this game.


I agree, the Saturn SotN is less than spectacular. Most of the additions either feel unfinished or look as if they were dropped because they were not up to the standards of the rest of the game. As in any creative endeavor what is left out is as important as what is put in. The game is an interesting curio but playing it feels more like you're scanning through the deleted scenes on a DVD rather than playing the definitive version of SotN. Then again, Badoor spent good money to buy Fatal Fury 3 so who knows how far he will go to build up a Saturn collection.

But (somewhat) back on topic: I'm currently trying to downsize my collection of games but I'm having trouble getting rid of any of my Saturn titles. Yes, the console isn't as essential as it used to be since a good number of the fighting games it used to be renown for have been re-released but I still like the packaging and presentation of those old Saturn ports. The FF games have received more recent ports but none of them compare to the Saturn version of RBFF which came in a big, black slab of a box that framed a portrait of Geese Howard lounging in a gigantic chair. Also, the Saturn port of KoF96 might be my favorite KoF game for no other reason than that I love that there is not only new character art posted during the load screens but the art is different on the P1 and P2 sides. So if you're looking for an unorthodox approach to Saturn games I would suggest you pick up the titles that have the most interesting jewel cases. Download games have nothing on puffy instruction booklets.

I wonder if there is a listing of import Saturn titles that have English language options since there seemed to be no rhyme or reason to when it was included. Why does KoF96 have English text but KoF97 does not? Who knows! Language options might not be a huge priority on fighting games but I wish they had been a bit more consistent.





badoor
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"Re(6):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Tue 5 Aug 00:42post reply

quote:
Then again, Badoor spent good money to buy Fatal Fury 3 so who knows how far he will go to build up a Saturn collection.
Haha yeah, that particular game came up as part of a bundle with the console itself. The port of FF3 is pretty bad, with low frame-rate and such. I do regret getting it.

But on a grander scale, I'm not too interested in collecting games for collection's sake, or maybe I am but I just don't know it and I'm just in denial. But the priority is to get games that I don't already own on other consoles. And as it turns out, the saturn has a lot of sub-standard or just excellent-yet-overlooked fighters that never got the continued interest years after to get rereleases on future consoles. And weird, unconventional fighting games are something I really enjoy (which is why I really love Art Of Fighting 3).





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karasu
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"Re(7):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Tue 5 Aug 02:30post reply

quote:
And because Karasu knows I'm a mean-spirited complainer in real life, I would say that the Saturn version is to be avoided because all the additions are kind of lame and out of place except for Maria, I suppose. The Saturn version is the "Star Wars Special Edition" of this game.


Imagining you as a grumpy old curmudgeon is impossible! In reality you're the voice of reason about so many of the Saturn's 'holy grail' games. Most of them are I think leftovers of a previous age, prior to being able to watch 'Let's Play' videos of the most obscure items, when the promise of some strange yet amazing fighting game had been conveyed by a few tiny low-res photos on a deep page of Diehard Gamefan. Saturn STON is by no means superior to the PS original (and its many rereleases) but like a Laserdisc version of a beloved film, it's still an interesting footnote for 'the fan who has it all'. In that spirit, I stand by my suggestion.

quote:
Then again, Badoor spent good money to buy Fatal Fury 3 so who knows how far he will go to build up a Saturn collection. Haha yeah, that particular game came up as part of a bundle with the console itself. The port of FF3 is pretty bad, with low frame-rate and such. I do regret getting it.

But on a grander scale, I'm not too interested in collecting games for collection's sake, or maybe I am but I just don't know it and I'm just in denial. But the priority is to get games that I don't already own on other consoles. And as it turns out, the saturn has a lot of sub-standard or just excellent-yet-overlooked fighters that never got the continued interest years after to get rereleases on future consoles. And weird, unconventional fighting games are something I really enjoy (which is why I really love Art Of Fighting 3).



I acknowledged a while ago that I'd never be a completionist for my Saturn collection (or any other for that matter), but I've always been on the lookout for a few titles that seem interesting. For me, one of those titles is Battle Garegga. It's a remarkably good shooter that somehow never got a port for any other system that I'm aware of.

As far as obscure titles go, you're right, the Saturn has plenty. Golden Axe the Duel is... interesting, and the US version can probably be found on the cheap. The same goes for Last Bronx, which was my most recent Saturn purchase. Another pretty odd and obscure fighter that I can't in any way recommend in any way than pure obscurity/WTF factor is Battle Monsters, which actually made it to the US. Like Shinobi Legions (AKA Shinobi X), I have this odd nostalgia for both titles that springs more from fond memories of the place and time I played them than anything else.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have a kind of nostalgia for the Saturn that's unlike what I have for any other console, even my very first one. I'm not sure exactly why that is.






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"Re(8):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Tue 5 Aug 03:56post reply

quote:
Battle Garegga


Raizing for me had a real golden period when they made Battle Garegga, Terra Diver, and Armed Police Batrider. Terra Diver (or Sokyugurentai) I thought had such a cool look to it what with its 3D lock-on reticle.

Now that I think about it, is there a good word/phrase to describe the "2.5D" look of the ST-V era games? There's a grunginess to the relatively low resolution textures on the quads being used for sprites that is alone kind of distinctive, but that sometimes being mashed together with cleaner looking 3D geometry makes for a strangely memorable feel.





TheRedKnight
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"Re(7):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Tue 5 Aug 04:00post reply

quote:

But on a grander scale, I'm not too interested in collecting games for collection's sake, or maybe I am but I just don't know it and I'm just in denial. But the priority is to get games that I don't already own on other consoles. And as it turns out, the saturn has a lot of sub-standard or just excellent-yet-overlooked fighters that never got the continued interest years after to get rereleases on future consoles. And weird, unconventional fighting games are something I really enjoy (which is why I really love Art Of Fighting 3).



You already have Fighters Megamix and Last Bronx, nice, but here are some other games I would suggest getting:

Fighting Vipers
Goiken Muyou Anarchy In The Nippon
Zero Divide The Final Conflict

Suiko Enbu Fuunsaiki
World Heroes Perfect
Fighter's History Dynamite

The first three are VF-likes. The Saturn port of FV has Pepsiman, which is awesome. Goiken Muyou has a great 90s Japanese street fashion feel and some really cool gameplay ideas (the sequel on the PS1 is even better) and ZD TFC is probably my favourite game on the system. It's super smooth, has an amazing soundtrack, but the character models take a bit of getting used to, especially if you like ZD2 The Secret Wish on the PS1.

Suiko Enbu Fuunsaiki could be described as mindless fun taken too far, considering the first game was not as nuts. But it's worth experiencing. The other two 2D fighters I listed are ports, but good ports. WHP lets you set the controls to six buttons which is a nice bonus, and FHD show's how loading on a CD based console should be handled.





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"Re(4):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Tue 5 Aug 05:53post reply

Well, this thread reminds me that my Saturn is in pretty dire shape right now. Can't play a game for more than 5 minutes before the graphics or textures get garbled up. I'd get a new one but my white JP Saturn is so pretty I just hate the idea of having to replace it.

I'm looking at my collection and man, for all I appreciate my Saturn I sure don't have a lot of games for it. Dragon Force is an obvious one and pretty much every Capcom fighter to ever use the 4MB RAM cartridge is a given. I'd recommend Radiant Silvergun but with the price you'd be better off getting the XBLA version on 360.

As for SotN, I side with Maou's sentiment. The only "extras" that stick in my memory of it were the extra slowdown, extra pixelation, and extra-bad translucency effects. Also Maria was in the port of SotN made for Dracula X Chronicles on PSP, pretty much invalidating any need for the Saturn version to exist.





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"Re(5):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Tue 5 Aug 11:38post reply

To it's credit, SegaSoTN's new mixes of series mainstay tunes Vampire Killer, Beginning, and Bloody Tears were outstanding.





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"Re(6):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Tue 12 Aug 10:46:post reply

quote:
To it's credit, SegaSoTN's new mixes of series mainstay tunes Vampire Killer, Beginning, and Bloody Tears were outstanding.



yes - and as a person who prefers imperfect things, the "unfinished" extras felt like I was getting a glimpse into the behind the scenes world of the game, since they weren't so much tacked on, as hidden in/extended from logical places in the world - just poorly implemented.

As for games to get, I'll just list a few that I like that follow the "imperfect but interesting" mold.

Asuka 120% Limited - my favorite 2D fighter, and best in the series (only on saturn)

Shin Shinobi Den - cheaper in JP than the U.S., the weird digitized shinobi.

batsugun - nice toaplan shooter

layer section - great 2D shooter from taito

astal - a weird 2D platformer that actually is quite nice in certain ways. feels unfinished, but has some nice bits, and some neat 2D effects. (and the JP version is easier)

magic knight rayearth - nice action RPG

story of thor - aka legend of oasis. great (but oddly quiet) Alundra-style ARPG from Ancient (yuzo koshiro's company)

sonic jam - the weird 3D part is actually beatable. not many people seem to know that!

sonic R - the last Yasuhara-designed sonic game. The controls are frustrating, but the tracks are good, and that cheesy music will stick in your brain forever.

panzer dragoon 1, 2, and azel. they're all great! azel (aka RPG) will be cheaper in JP than the U.S., it's not so uncommon there.

Nights and Xmas Nights (of course)

Darius Gaiden (great 2D effects again!)

Saturn Bomberman - great with 8-10 people! the revival of hi-ten bomberman!

Dark Savior - very strange ARPG from the landstalker folks. requires some japanese.

more expensive:
elevator action returns - great co-op weird action.

soukyuugurentai - one of the best shooters on the system

bulk slash - great visuals, a weird mix of 2D and 3D

keiyo yuugekitai - platformer/shooter mix, known as keiyo's flying squadron in the UK. very loose and sloppy, but charming in some ways.

none of these, aside from MKR, Dark Savior, and Azel, require any japanese knowledge.

[edit] Forgot Silhouette Mirage! one of my favorite Treasure games, much better on the saturn than the PS1.





[this message was edited by exodus on Tue 12 Aug 10:47]

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"Re(7):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Tue 12 Aug 18:25post reply

We should always "talk SEGA Saturn". It has been medically proven to be a very healthy activity for your liver and bone marrow.

I am not sure what more I can add to the games already recommended; that already quite a lot to go through. I did not even remember writing that list.

There is fortunately more and more quality resource online to check out games, such as Saturn Memories on Youtube. Who doesn't want to see Miniskirt Police and Tama videos in glorious 1080p?





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karasu
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"Re(8):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Wed 13 Aug 03:40post reply

quote:
We should always "talk SEGA Saturn". It has been medically proven to be a very healthy activity for your liver and bone marrow.


Maybe this should be a recurring topic, much like the random games and non-games threads. Because you're right, for as good as it makes me feel to reminisce about the Saturn, it must have some health benefits. Unfortunately I think it will inevitably degenerate into old-timer rambling about 'in our day'.

Anyway, in keeping with the topic, I fired up my Saturn last night, only to discover how terrible it looks on an HD television. Does anyone know of a fix for this that doesn't require that $300+ hardware converters that I read about somewhere around a decade ago? Of course I could always find someone's unloved CRT SD TV to hook it up to...

Oh, and Spoon, I think you mentioned the 2.5 mix of chunky pixels and 3D renders that was very common on the Saturn-- I'm not sure anyone has ever coined a term for it, but maybe we all should. I can recall the days of my pixel-purist youth (here comes the old man talk) when I categorically dismissed games with those kinds of graphics, but now with slightly less clouded vision I have a bunch of nostalgia for them.

Also, since you mentioned Soukyuugurentai/Terra Diver, I thought I'd mention that if anyone's looking for it, it might be worth looking instead for its updated budget release, Soukyuugurentai Otokuyo, which fixes a few issues that I don't recall the detail of, and includes a Battle Garegga demo.






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exodus
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"Re(9):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Wed 13 Aug 04:29post reply

there is presently no fix that avoids either a $300 box or a CRT. those are your current options!





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"Re(10):Let's talk Grandia" , posted Wed 25 Feb 13:48post reply

Those old Grandia interviews give an amazing insight into the mind of Game Arts and how thoughtful they were with the creation of the game's world and game mechanics. What an amazing game.





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Maou
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"Re(2):Re(10):Let's talk Grandia" , posted Wed 25 Feb 14:13post reply

quote:
Those old Grandia interviews give an amazing insight into the mind of Game Arts and how thoughtful they were with the creation of the game's world and game mechanics. What an amazing game.

Thanks! And let's not forget that the same exists for Lunar, as translated by some guy. They never had the money Square did, but their attention to detail, right down to having nearly every random villager in every town change their dialogue after major events, always blew my mind.

...Meanwhile, the shambling zombie that remains of Game Arts today has dropped the ball where previously they were announcing a new addition to PSN each month on the 20th.





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"Shigatake" , posted Wed 25 Feb 19:19:post reply

Also the MMC might enjoy the anecdote that Shigatake of VanillaWare's fame used to develop his own shooting games on the Saturn as a hobby, using the popular STG maker Dezaemon 2.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Wed 25 Feb 19:22]

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"Re(1):Shigatake" , posted Wed 25 Feb 22:28post reply

quote:
Also the MMC might enjoy the anecdote that Shigatake of VanillaWare's fame used to develop his own shooting games on the Saturn as a hobby, using the popular STG maker Dezaemon 2.


Shigatake seems to be able to do everything! except save the Japanese game industry

Also I now realized it has been already more than 10 years since Habanerotan appeared on the internet and 20 years since Sega Saturn





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"Re(1):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Wed 25 Mar 11:31:post reply

Sega Saturn was my favorite system after Sega Genesis. US did not give it much love like Japan did. Everyone did not know that Saturn games were far more better than its USA ports. Games I enjoyed were SFvXmen, MarvelvsSF, Pocket Fighter, Rockman 8, Rockman x4, KOF 95, KOF 97, Samurai Shodown iv, and Street Fighter Zero 3. Action Replay+ was the best innovation ever made at that time.



quote:
I've been wanting to get a SEGA Saturn for years now, ever since my old US one permanantly broke & I sold all the games I had. But college and life got in the way. Now, I finally got one, with a bunch of games. So I wanted to use this occasion to start a general SEGA Saturn thread, talk about the best games it had, the abysmal support it got in NA/PAL regions, whether the Saturn's legacy as a console with arcade-perfect SNK/Capcom/etc. ports is now diminished thanks to more recent ports on PS2, Wii, PS3, Xbox 360 etc. Or just remind ourselves that the Saturn had the very best marketing campaign of any product ever.

Secretly, though, I'm hoping I could use this thread to get recommendations (perferrably for games that are very import friendly for a man with zero knowledge in Japanese). All the games I own are in that picture above. But if that picture is too blurry and messed up thanks to my nearly broken camera lens, here's a list of the games I currently have.







Long Live!

[this message was edited by neo0r0chiaku on Wed 25 Mar 11:32]

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"Re(2):Let's talk SEGA Saturn" , posted Sun 29 Mar 00:29post reply

quote:
Sega Saturn was my favorite system after Sega Genesis. US did not give it much love like Japan did. Everyone did not know that Saturn games were far more better than its USA ports. Games I enjoyed were SFvXmen, MarvelvsSF, Pocket Fighter, Rockman 8, Rockman x4, KOF 95, KOF 97, Samurai Shodown iv, and Street Fighter Zero 3. Action Replay+ was the best innovation ever made at that time.



As the avid, devoted Sega fan I was in my childhood and teenage years, I invested on a Sega Saturn as well. Given the wonderful fanchises SEGA had brought us throughout the 16-bit era and Sony's rookie status in the console arena, choosing Saturn over Playstation looked like a sure bet to me back in the day. Now that almost 20 years have passed since their original debut I still think I made the correct choice and I don't regret my decision in the slightest: Sonic Team's creations (Nights into Dreams, Burning Rangers), the Panzer Dragoon series and all the Capcom arcade fanfare (Vampire Hunter, Marvel Superheroes, Super Puzzle Fighter II-X...) brought me so many hours of joy I can't properly define my youth without it.

Sadly though, I got rid of most of my Saturn-related goods about a decade ago due to space constraints (albeit more than enough for myself, my flat is rather small), but I still keep it in its original box somewhere, along with my JAP Astal and my EUR Panzer Dragoon Saga, mainly for nostalgia's sake: everytime I see them on the shelf, my mind wanders around those halcyon times when life was easier and the videogame industry was as healthy and innocent as the dreamy teenager I once was...