Arcade sticks - can we talk about them? - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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Lord SNK
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"Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Sun 20 Jul 18:36:post reply

I recently bought a PS3, as now that there is the PS4 around it's possible to find good deals for PS3, and moreover there are already a lot of games that I want to play (backlog suddenly increased!).

I got KOF13 but playing with the pad is atrocious, I can do without problems only simple movements (QCF, QCB, DP, etc.) but other things for me are impossibile to do or they come out 1 every 10 times.

Last time I played using a stick I think was more than 10 years ago, when there were yet arcades around here, but after that when emulators become popular and emulation of Neo Geo and CPS become very good as a lot of people I played on my PC (I always wanted to buy a MVS but never had a lot of money to spend on games so....). But I used a keyboard.... let's not speak about that

Now that I got a PS3 and I want to start playing using a better method of input, so I was looking online what sticks are available.
Not counting bad plastic knockoffs or unknown brands that offer models that break only after 1 use, it seems that the main brands are Mad Catz, Hori and Qanba. They all have sticks with Sanwa parts (some have Seimitsu).
Mad Catz seems to be the most popular with their Tournament Edition sticks that should be out of stock now, but a lot of people continue to search and buy them used. Hori has a lot of models that seems to be reliable. Qanba don't know, I have read conflicting views about their sticks, I don't know what to believe.

But one thing is common with all of them: the price! Why they are so pricey!?
I live in Italy and here there aren't direct distributors, or I haven't found them, Amazon or other shops have insane prices (they start from 180/200 ), eBay is not different (someone is trying to sell a Qanba Q4 for 9000, yes, nine thousand).
They seem well built, sturdy, with quality parts, but the price is higher than what I paid for my console!
I don't know in other part of the world if prices are also so high (in proportions with currency exchange). Probably in japan they have lower prices but shipment costs and customs will make everything not affordable (for example I found a Hori RAP v4 Hayabusa for something like 110, but they want 70 to ship it here, and customs are calculated on the total value inclusive of the shipment costs).

So...
do you use an arcade stick to play?
What brand/model?
Do you think that this high prices are justified?
Do you know some online store located in Europe (that ships to Italy) with affordable prices?





[this message was edited by Lord SNK on Sun 20 Jul 18:39]

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Pollyanna
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"Re(1):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Sun 20 Jul 19:21post reply

I bought an old HRAP, then a Qanba Q4, then a new Hori (the Soul Calibur V stick).

I purchased the old HRAP because it was relatively inexpensive and a huge improvement over using a pad. However, as far as joysticks go, it was pretty mediocre and it eventually left me wanting another one. Well, that's irrelevant, since they don't make that model anymore anyway, I suppose.

The Qanba joysticks are perfectly decent, though it's their cross-compatibility that's the real draw. That is to say, I recommend the brand if you're using it on multiple systems, but if you're only looking for a PS3 controller, there's no need to get a Qanba, unless they're cheaper. That is to say, they're fine, but they're not the best.

The Hori Soul Calibur V stick is perfect, in my opinion. (Well, other than the Soul Calibur part I guess) It seems that's there's no equivalent stick in their current line, though I imagine their recent HRAPs have the same parts. I would be eager to try their "Fighting Edge" line, but the SC stick certainly delivers the highest level of quality that a player of my skill level could take advantage of.

I'm very enthusiastic about playing with a joystick. For me, it's a completely different experience and hugely more enjoyable. It's not just that my execution improves, it's just...the "feel" is really nice. I make excuses to use the joystick or play games I can use it with because the act of using it is a pleasure in itself. So, in terms of if it's worth the money...I think so, if you'll really use it and I recommend getting a high quality one as well.

If you're strapped for cash or not really a "joystick enthusiast," then you might want to consider a fight pad. They're considerably cheaper and have nicer pads/button layouts. It's not a replacement for a joystick, but it's like...1/3 the cost and better than a normal controller at least.

Another thing to consider... Mad Catz is about to release a joystick that works for both PS3 and PS4. I would suspect that Qanba would do something like that as well...or maybe even something more inclusive. A good joystick is extremely sturdy (and you can always replace parts), so a "future proof" purchase might not be a bad idea, even if you won't be looking at a PS4 for several years.

200 is completely bonkers. At that price, you might want to look into international sellers like Play-Asia. The shipping would indeed be harsh, but the relative strength of the euro vs dollars might tip in your favor.





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"Re(1):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Sun 20 Jul 21:20post reply

First up, congratulations on your PS3. As for a Joystick, you might be better off with either Madcatz or Hori considering there's a lot of users; you can find various resources if you're ever in trouble or if you feel like making modifications.

I play with Hori's Real Arcade Pro V3 series. The first generation product had a bad surface that scratches very easily (like this), but Hori's fixed it with their later releases. Personally I think the stick is pretty reliable.

Ebay might actually be the easiest way of picking up a stick. PlayAsia is another option but their prices are standard retail. Using Tenso.com to purchase directly from Japan is another option although you'll need to consider whether the hasstle is worth the potential discount.





Lord SNK
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"Re(2):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Sun 20 Jul 23:25post reply

Thank you for the replies

I exclude to buy a fighting pad, I hate the pad to play, probably I will not completely hate a fighting pad, but I think that if I'm going to spend money for a controller, I want something that satisfy me completely.

About compatibility with PS4, I think that when I will get a PS4, there would be plenty of way to mod a stick to made it compatible with that system.

I've already checked Play-asia, price start from 190$ (around 140) but shipping fee are 50$ for Fedex (I had a bad experience with them and play-asia some times ago), 100$ for UPS, 135$ for EMS. A bit too pricey.

About that tenso.com posted by the Professor, I don't get what is the advantage, as it seems from what I can read on their site that also customs could be applied (depending on the destination) so it will be the same of shipping directly from Play-asia.

I will continue to search on ebay, I'm not too optimistic, but if someone has some suggestion I will be glad to hear them



This is the most beautiful thing I have read in these days about the reason to prefer a stick to other input methods.
Thank you very much.
quote:

I'm very enthusiastic about playing with a joystick. For me, it's a completely different experience and hugely more enjoyable. It's not just that my execution improves, it's just...the "feel" is really nice. I make excuses to use the joystick or play games I can use it with because the act of using it is a pleasure in itself.







Zepy
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"Re(3):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Mon 21 Jul 00:14post reply

Qanba Q4 (Play-asia)
Mad Catz Arcade FightStick PRO (Amazon)

These are probably the lowest prices you can find online I think.

If you want to find a cheap stick in Europe, I would suggest to try searching specifically for the Madcatz Street Fighter X Tekken Arcade FightStick or the Madcatz Soul Calibur V Arcade Fightstick. A 2 years ago these sticks were making their rounds in Europe for about 70 EUR each because of how badly those two games failed.

You probably can't get a good price like that anymore because most stores have sold all their stock by now but you might be able to find it on ebay or something similar at a slightly higher price.





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"Re(4):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Mon 21 Jul 02:54:post reply

quote:
I recently bought a PS3
there are already a lot of games that I want to play (backlog suddenly increased!).
While a new arrival, this lady/gentleman is surely an ideal match for the Cafe!

I have noticed the price increase in recent years, possibly due to the fact that the main people wanting sticks now are few enough and serious enough to want really well-made ones, so the days of $40 sticks (and $20 controllers, for that matter) are sadly past. Well, at least you can pretend it is the old days and save up a bunch of money each week like when you were a kid to buy your cool accessory. Or I suppose there's always the cheap hold-over option in the meantime in the form of a Saturn pad, which, while not a stick, is surely the finest fighting controller in existence, whether it's made by Sega or Udon (the latter requiring a simple $5 converter piece since it's for PS2).
quote:
The Hori Soul Calibur V stick is perfect, in my opinion. (Well, other than the Soul Calibur part I guess)
ooh my poor Calibur series...





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[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 21 Jul 02:56]

karasu
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"Re(5):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Mon 21 Jul 03:31post reply

quote:
If you want to find a cheap stick in Europe, I would suggest to try searching specifically for the Madcatz Street Fighter X Tekken Arcade FightStick or the Madcatz Soul Calibur V Arcade Fightstick. A 2 years ago these sticks were making their rounds in Europe for about 70 EUR each because of how badly those two games failed.


I agree, I've seen some crazy deals online for game-branded fighting sticks. For some reason people seem to shy away from sticks with, say, Street Fighter X Tekken art on them as though the crummy game has perhaps worn off on the stick.

For a long time I used the good old Soul Blade stick for the PS1 (with a cable extension-- for some reason cables were super short back in the PS1 era), until I got my PS3, at which point nothing I've tried seems to get it to work. Fortunately I was able to find a very low price on the Tekken 5 Hori stick recently and it's been very nice..
quote:

ooh my poor Calibur series...


There there... it was a good series for quite a while!






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Lord SNK
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"Re(5):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Mon 21 Jul 06:18post reply

quote:
I recently bought a PS3
there are already a lot of games that I want to play (backlog suddenly increased!). While a new arrival, this lady/gentleman is surely an ideal match for the Cafe!



Thank you.
I'm a gentleman!

I will add also that SFxTekken stick to the list of candidate used sticks to search on ebay.
But I hope to find some good deal somewhere for some stick brand-new before surrendering to ebay!





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"Re(6):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Mon 21 Jul 08:17:post reply

I didn't have a PS3 of my own until last year, so am I cool too?

The Qanba Q4 is a good stick, I have owned one myself, and its compatibility with the Xbox 360 is a useful feature should you go play with friends who do have Xbox 360 even if you do not have an Xbox 360 yourself. Having used it and the TE sticks, the two are almost identical in form and feel, though I haven't done any modding or repair work on either. I had been hoping to see the prices for both dropping due to the PS4 initially not supporting PS3 devices, but I guess it'll take some time still.

quote:

There there... it was a good series for quite a while!



THIS ISN'T HELPING





[this message was edited by Spoon on Mon 21 Jul 08:18]

Pollyanna
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"Re(7):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Mon 21 Jul 08:44post reply

quote:
ooh my poor Calibur series...


Although your statement still stands, for the sake of conversation, I'm fairly fond of SCV, but I don't know if I want an assortment of its character art emblazoned on my joystick. If it was a single illustration, I might like it better, but I really hate the "US game cover cram a lot of artwork/renders together" approach. Also, although I like SCV (even though it's incompleteness ultimately makes it a tragedy), I don't know, if I was going to pick ONE GAME to "fly the flag of", it would be that one.

There's a downside to the SC stick, by the way...it's hard to customize, if you do want a different picture. It's not like a go to events or anyone else looks at my stick, and it's not like I look at it much either, so it didn't seem like it was worth the effort since it's not hideous or anything.





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Maou
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"Re(7):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Mon 21 Jul 12:46post reply

quote:
I'm a gentleman!

Or perhaps..."I'm a mother father gentleman!"
quote:
I didn't have a PS3 of my own until last year, so am I cool too?
You better believe it! I only bought my PS3 Dragon's Crown delivery device last year, as well.
quote:

THIS ISN'T HELPING

Without having seen it, my image of the SCV American joystick contains nothing but a badly photoshopped picture of Zwei, which is kind of (almost) the only mental impression I ever got of that game after fellow friends who've been broken-hearted after II warned me.





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kofoguz
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"Arcade sticks - can we dream about them?" , posted Tue 22 Jul 00:28:post reply

quote:
I didn't have a PS3 of my own until last year, so am I cool too?
I got my gaming libido back but I'm still piss poor and want to buy a PS3, Wii U and 3DS XL/LL, guess I'm on the edge of glory? Towards the way of awesomeness?

Also on topic since I'm on the same page for arcade sticks, but I like bat version sticks also need to play the stick on the right side, the soltion seems like to make a custom one. Maybe you can go that way. But having no money doesnt helps.

But I can leave this for you to listen since I dont think I'm so much help to your question..

Esaka with Davul and Zurna





[this message was edited by kofoguz on Tue 22 Jul 00:30]

Ishmael
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"Re(8):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Tue 22 Jul 01:01post reply

Have you tried contacting Mad Catz, Hori, and so on directly? Normally that's not a useful route to take but arcade sticks are such a niche product you might find someone at the company who can tell you what dealers or deals are available in your part of the world.

quote:
I'm a gentleman!
Or perhaps..."I'm a mother father gentleman!"

If Lord SNK were female I believe the correct title would be "Lady of Playmore" but I'm not fully versed on my honorifics.

Since we are discussing sticks how does everyone position their stick when they play? At first I held my stick in my lap but that proved to be uncomfortable after a few matches. I currently perch the stick on a small table but that doesn't seem like an optimal solution either. What does everyone else do with this large box of buttons and sensors?





Lord SNK
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"Re(9):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Tue 22 Jul 03:13post reply

quote:

Also on topic since I'm on the same page for arcade sticks, but I like bat version sticks also need to play the stick on the right side, the soltion seems like to make a custom one. Maybe you can go that way. But having no money doesnt helps.



Stick to the right?!?!
It's.... wrong

I am sure I'm not able to build a custom one myself, so order a custom one from some sites is an option, but they have higher prices!

quote:
Have you tried contacting Mad Catz, Hori, and so on directly? Normally that's not a useful route to take but arcade sticks are such a niche product you might find someone at the company who can tell you what dealers or deals are available in your part of the world.



I haven't.
It seems that Mad Catz has some online official store (with another name, not Mad Catz, something like GameShark Store) but only for some european countries (Germany, UK, France) and they ship only to those countries :'(
(and the french store right now has a very good offer for the Arcade Fightstick Pro).
The european site of hori has very high prices.





Pollyanna
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"Re(9):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Tue 22 Jul 05:47post reply

quote:

Since we are discussing sticks how does everyone position their stick when they play? At first I held my stick in my lap but that proved to be uncomfortable after a few matches. I currently perch the stick on a small table but that doesn't seem like an optimal solution either. What does everyone else do with this large box of buttons and sensors?


Is your table too low, perhaps? I use one of the pieces from a nesting table. Like these. The only difference is, mine are enclosed on the bottom, so the tables can be turned on any side to give a variety of heights/lengths. When I sit in a chair, the controller/table is just a bit higher than my lap, simulating a Japanese arcade setup fairly closely.

My computer is on a standing desk, so when I play on PC it's like an American arcade setup.





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kofoguz
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"Re(10):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them" , posted Tue 22 Jul 07:26post reply

quote:
Stick to the right?!?!
It's.... wrong

But, but I have to cross my arms when stick is on the left. And it interrupts the execution.





karasu
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"Re(10):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them" , posted Tue 22 Jul 07:29post reply

quote:

My computer is on a standing desk, so when I play on PC it's like an American arcade setup.


Polly, is your standing desk a fixed height one? Presumably they're a little cheaper than the adjustable kind, which are crazily expensive. My PC setup includes a big Ikea dining room table I bought for cheap years ago, but it's murder on my unfortunately aging back sometimes.

I used to sit directly on the floor and use my legs to steady the joystick, but that was before we got dogs, who pretty much prevent that setup these days.

My biggest issue with my joystick is that the cable is seriously old-school short. I suspect that in the old days (and my Saturn cables confirm) people sat a to closer to TVs that were much smaller. Lord SNK, you may want to consider a cable extension (AKA a USB extension) which should only cost a small amount.






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Pollyanna
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"Re(2):Re(10):Arcade sticks - can we talk abou" , posted Tue 22 Jul 08:22post reply

quote:

Polly, is your standing desk a fixed height one? Presumably they're a little cheaper than the adjustable kind, which are crazily expensive. My PC setup includes a big Ikea dining room table I bought for cheap years ago, but it's murder on my unfortunately aging back sometimes.

I used to sit directly on the floor and use my legs to steady the joystick, but that was before we got dogs, who pretty much prevent that setup these days.

My biggest issue with my joystick is that the cable is seriously old-school short. I suspect that in the old days (and my Saturn cables confirm) people sat a to closer to TVs that were much smaller. Lord SNK, you may want to consider a cable extension (AKA a USB extension) which should only cost a small amount.


For standing desk setups, check out Ikea Hackers. You should be able to find an option that matches your needs/budget/skill level.

Have you successfully used a USB extension cable with a joystick? I had kind of shoddy results when I tried it. On a side note, trying to play my PC on the TV is a nightmare that just won't end. I have a lengthy HDMI cable, so I can hook it through my receiver and I have a wireless sound card/receiver than I can use to get the sound through my surround system without changing my audio settings every time and I got the USB extension cable because bluetooth is unreliable at that range, but it never worked quite right and I still have to run across the room to use the keyboard and mouse when/if that becomes necessary. The bottom line is that it's just not meant to be, but I hate to admit defeat all the same.





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"Re(10):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them" , posted Wed 23 Jul 03:06post reply

quote:
Is your table too low, perhaps? I use one of the pieces from a nesting table. Like these. The only difference is, mine are enclosed on the bottom, so the tables can be turned on any side to give a variety of heights/lengths. When I sit in a chair, the controller/table is just a bit higher than my lap, simulating a Japanese arcade setup fairly closely.

My computer is on a standing desk, so when I play on PC it's like an American arcade setup.


Yeah, the table I'm currently using isn't quite at the optimal height for me. I could look for another table but I don't want to end up with a set-up that's larger than the one needed for Steel Battalion just because I'm in a Goldilocks mood about my controller. Oh well, I'm moving at some point this year so I'll add "game table" to my list of things I need to pick up for the new place. That will make it feel like a necessary purchase.





Lord SNK
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"Re(2):Re(10):Arcade sticks - can we talk abou" , posted Wed 23 Jul 03:42post reply

I emailed MadCatz support as suggested by Ishmael (thank you) and they replied today!

The UK version of their store ships also to Italy! Hooray!
(but the user registration form require an english address.. probably at checkout where there is the calculation of the shipping fee they will asks again the delivery address and probably it will accept also international address...)

They have the Fightstick Pro for 69.99 and shipment is 23.33, for a total of 93.32, around 118.
Surely is better than other prices I have seen around here, but the french store (that doesn't ship to Italy ) has the same stick for 69.
Obviously only the store with the worst price is the one that ships internationally (in europe).





Lord SNK
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"Re(3):Re(10):Arcade sticks - can we talk abou" , posted Thu 7 Aug 16:41post reply

Small update: at the end I got the Fightstick PRO PS3 version, directly from Mad Catz UK for the incredible low price of 39.99 (about 50)!

Go grab one of them if you are in Europe as long as they are in stock!

(The site list the price as 69.99 but there is a coupon that can slash the price by 30, on checkout write FIGHTSTICKPS3)





Professor
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"Re(4):Re(10):Arcade sticks - can we talk abou" , posted Thu 7 Aug 20:58post reply

quote:
Small update: at the end I got the Fightstick PRO PS3 version, directly from Mad Catz UK for the incredible low price of 39.99 (about 50)!

Go grab one of them if you are in Europe as long as they are in stock!

(The site list the price as 69.99 but there is a coupon that can slash the price by 30, on checkout write FIGHTSTICKPS3)



Congratuations on your new stick! Next, you'll need to get used to the lag on KOF13's netplay, haha'





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"Re(5):Re(10):Arcade sticks - can we talk abou" , posted Fri 8 Aug 01:59post reply

Wow, that's a great savings. Congrats on not only getting a stick but finding one at a reasonable price.

quote:
Congratuations on your new stick! Next, you'll need to get used to the lag on KOF13's netplay, haha'

Now your true challenge begins!





Lord SNK
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"Re(6):Re(10):Arcade sticks - can we talk abou" , posted Fri 8 Aug 21:22post reply

Thanks to both, but first I need to learn again how to play using a stick after years of playing with other types of controllers, and then I should change my Internet provider as my connection is shit at the moment.





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"Re(1):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Thu 2 Oct 07:31:post reply

quote:

So...
do you use an arcade stick to play?
What brand/model?
Do you think that this high prices are justified?
Do you know some online store located in Europe (that ships to Italy) with affordable prices?



Quick TL;DR answer: Qanba Q4RAF (PS3/X360), Custom Stick (PS2, DC)

Longer answer: I've always wanted to play my fighters with the right equipment, but I've always had a cheap side because, back when I was a college student, I didn't have a lot of money. I could only dream about getting a good arcade stick like a MAS or X-Arcade stick.

Back in the early 00's, I used a US Sega Saturn Virtua Stick (the US version) on both my SS and Dreamcast (via adapter). Then I realized those US-model sticks were crap, and wanted to try a Dreamcast Arcade stick, but realized that too sucked for me. But, I made do, opting to use the well-worn Saturn stick flaws and all.

When I got a PS2, Gamecube and Xbox, I did a stupid thing and bought a 3-system arcade stick by MadCatz ( I think). Big mistake: the controller was even worse than the Saturn stick. And because of this, to this day, I refuse to buy a MadCatz stick, even though they are recommended in the community. They've made crap products in the past, and therefore, I believe they make crap products now.

Anyway, a few years ago, not long after SFIV hit, I solicited a craigslist ad and bought a custom built arcade stick with Green Lantern art, a bat-top Joystick and Sanwa parts. It was far better than anything I had before and I used it on my Xbox 360, PS2, PS3 (via adapter) and DC (also via adapter). It worked fairly well, but for some reason, I couldn't use it on Tekken Tag 2.

Then I saw a Q4RAF stick being sold at a gaming con (Magfest) and decided to take the plunge, especially since I could now afford it. It's been my go-to stick, though I'm considering modding it with a Bat-top joystick and perhaps Happ buttons (because I'm old-school like that).

As for price, I don't think you're going to find better under the $150 range (about what I paid for the Q4RAF) unless you go for a stick with 1-system + PC compatibility. Prices seem much better than they were 10 years ago...






So much to do so little time...

[this message was edited by Burning Ranger on Thu 2 Oct 07:32]

Lord SNK
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"Re(2):Arcade sticks - can we talk about them?" , posted Fri 3 Oct 03:28post reply

quote:

Quick TL;DR answer: Qanba Q4RAF (PS3/X360), Custom Stick (PS2, DC)

Longer answer: ...



Thank you for you reply, but I've already got a MadCatz Fightstick Pro for PS3 (it works also on PC without any problem) for a very low price (39) directly from MadCatz UK site.
I'm very happy with it, probably also because it's my first serious stick so I'm unable to make comparison with other sticks.





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"Hi I'm back" , posted Fri 3 Oct 16:57post reply

quote:
Thank you for you reply, but I've already got a MadCatz Fightstick Pro for PS3 (it works also on PC without any problem) for a very low price (39) directly from MadCatz UK site.
I'm very happy with it, probably also because it's my first serious stick so I'm unable to make comparison with other sticks.

Glad you like your stick! Also, welcome, new person!

I don't wanna diss your new toy, but the Pro kinda felt cheap and light to me compared to the TE-S, but I'd take that over the massive bases on some of the sticks Hori has released over the years. I also dislike the Vewlix layout on the Pro and the standard line of TE sticks, leading me into the next part of my post, where I resume my age-old tradition of agreeing with Polly about something.
quote:
The Hori Soul Calibur V stick is perfect, in my opinion. (Well, other than the Soul Calibur part I guess) It seems that's there's no equivalent stick in their current line, though I imagine their recent HRAPs have the same parts. I would be eager to try their "Fighting Edge" line, but the SC stick certainly delivers the highest level of quality that a player of my skill level could take advantage of.

They DID make another Noir TE-S, and without that ugly grey pointy bezel! And it has a standard button layout, so you don't need to do any rewiring, as if moving a few pairs of quick disconnects around was so laborious. If you use turbo after that, though, it lights up awfully funny now.

It was their TTT2 stick, and they didn't sell it for very long. I was hoping to scoop one up for 360, since my PS3 is pretty much dead and that's all I have sticks for. I've jabbered at Markman about how cool it'd be if they had a permanent Noir-style offering, since aftermarket prices on TTT2 and SCV sticks sometimes get absolutely stupid... but I don't think it's happening anytime soon. I'll just wait the 1-2 years it'll take for Tekken 7 to come home, hope there's gonna be a 360 version, and take my shot then!





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"Re(1):Hi I'm back" , posted Sat 4 Oct 11:13post reply

Hey Grave. Did you go to the con this year? First year I haven't loaned them anything in about 14 years.





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"Re(2):Hi I'm back" , posted Sat 4 Oct 11:21:post reply

quote:
Hey Grave. Did you go to the con this year? First year I haven't loaned them anything in about 14 years.

I was there briefly! Don't even think I made it to the game room. I did win passes for the Yoshiki concert, but we had to leave town before it started. I got a lot of neat Monster Hunter toys though and had some excellent food, so all in all it was OK!

edit: I would have never allowed that to happen if I didn't have tickets for the MSG X Japan show in just over a week. We may have been in a hurry but I am not crazy.





[this message was edited by Grave on Sat 4 Oct 11:22]