Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Edition - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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Ishmael
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"Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Edition" , posted Tue 3 Jun 02:39post reply

The last thread was getting puffy so it's time to bite the bullet and start a new discussion.

While I was looking forward to playing USF4 I'm now more interested to see if USF4 has downloaded correctly and will play at all when it goes live. Having the pre-order download glitch out and revert my SF4 game back to SSF4 is funny and a bit disturbing. Hopefully this is a minor blip and not a terminal "the game erases your memory card" sort of problem.

quote:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/29/guilty-gear-xrd-sign-officially-coming-west-for-ps3-and-ps4?abthid=53872f8996533ed048000017

Yeshh, just got announced today for PS3 and PS4. Bittersweet news (for me) since no PC version was announced, though, I still have some hope. The potential mods are something to dream about with that beautiful engine, and I really wish to experience my first LET IT OOUUUUUTTTT in max settings.

The scuttlebutt that this is coming out in 2014 is quite the surprise. Here I thought that I could wait on taking the plunge on a new console until at least 2015. Can I hold off on the PS4 vanilla version since I'm certain GG will receive numerous upgrades in the future? Or will I admit I have no willpower whatsoever and pick up a new system and controller so I can keep up with the latest fighting game fads? My bank account will probably have the final say in the matter.

To no one's surprise MKX has been announced. In a rare show of restraint the game was not named Mortal Kombat Xtreme! or something similar. Speaking of restraint, I like the slightly more subdued outfits the poster boys Sub Zero and Scorpion are wearing. It's a nice change of pace from some of the tacky, overdesigned crap they've worn in the past. If the trailer has any hints about gameplay it looks as if the environmental action of Injustice has been included. The hilarious old MK trick of having a character's limb get shattered only to have them shrug it off like it's no big whoop is also back for some reason. MK has received a lot of flak over the years but I admire the franchise's roach-like ability to survive and thrive. Other franchises come and go but MK will always be with us.






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Just a Person
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"Re(1):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Tue 3 Jun 03:00post reply

quote:
To no one's surprise MKX has been announced. In a rare show of restraint the game was not named Mortal Kombat Xtreme! or something similar. Speaking of restraint, I like the slightly more subdued outfits the poster boys Sub Zero and Scorpion are wearing. It's a nice change of pace from some of the tacky, overdesigned crap they've worn in the past. If the trailer has any hints about gameplay it looks as if the environmental action of Injustice has been included. The hilarious old MK trick of having a character's limb get shattered only to have them shrug it off like it's no big whoop is also back for some reason. MK has received a lot of flak over the years but I admire the franchise's roach-like ability to survive and thrive. Other franchises come and go but MK will always be with us.


Indeed, it looks great. As for the outfits, I thought the designs were already very good in the previous game (even if the ladies could wear something less stripperific in battle).

It's... interesting to see this game being named Mortal Kombat X. Does the "X" stand for the number ten? If so, is Boon counting MKvsDC as a legitimate MK game? I wouldn't.

When I watched the trailer for the first time, I didn't understand why Sub-Zero was there, considering he died in the previous game (and so did his brother) and NRS said how deaths in the MK universe would be more meaningful from now on. But according to Eventhubs, it seems that this game will allow players to "choose from multiple variations of each character"... maybe Raiden is summoning kombatants from alternate timelines? That could be a useful excuse to bring back popular kombatants like Kung Lao, Jax and Kitana, but it would make the plot even messier than nowadays.

Then again, I'm not sure if most people who play MK actually pay attention to the plot.





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"Re(1):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Tue 3 Jun 13:14post reply

quote:
The hilarious old MK trick of having a character's limb get shattered only to have them shrug it off like it's no big whoop is also back for some reason.


I honestly thought for a second he was going to start limping this time.

I did find it strange that this CG trailer done by an outside production house looks so much like gameplay. Are there hints in there past the suggestion of environmental attacks? Will kombatants be catching attacks and punching each other? Or is it just trying to look cool or match the style of the last game? The animations did seem to have some of that signature choreographed feel... (in general I feel like MK struggles to sell the impact of normal punches and kicks)





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chazumaru
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"Re(2):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Tue 3 Jun 18:17post reply

quote:
I did find it strange that this CG trailer done by an outside production house looks so much like gameplay.



Watch_Dogs sales, despite the brouhaha of complaints in recent weeks, have demonstrated that such deceiving tactics actually pay off. People know they get cheated yet they go for it anyway. Video Games have evolved into those late Saturday night clubbing girls wearing a suspicious amount of make-up.





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"Re(3):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Tue 3 Jun 20:12post reply

According to early reports, Adachi will be available as DLC for Persona 4: The Ultimax Ultra Suplex Hold. There's also going to be an extra scenario "Episode Adachi" that tells the game's storyline from his viewpoint. The content(s) will be available as preorder bonus, and also for purchase, probably at a later date like Terumi was for BBCP.

No photos lurking around yet, probably tomorrow.

http://blog.livedoor.jp/od3/archives/52073095.html





chazumaru
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"Re(4):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Tue 3 Jun 22:01:post reply

First screenshot of Adachi!

I don't even remember what Adachi looks like in Persona. ムフ♡





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Tue 3 Jun 22:04]

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"Re(3):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Tue 3 Jun 22:18post reply

I really don't know what to make of that MKX video thingy. The models look great until the motion capture ends and the terrible hand animation kicks in. That combined with the puzzling choice of music makes it look like Ed Boon's contribution to the Harlem Shake.

So far between this and the promise of Killer Instinct news I'm still pretty apathetic about E3 yet. At least Bandai Namco's silence has me really hoping that TxSF gets announced soon.





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"Re(4):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Wed 4 Jun 08:09post reply

The MKX teaser didn't hold my interest even for its short duration, but I was so pleased with Injustice (even as someone who likes neither MK nor DC comics), that I'll be eagerly watching for news. If they can include even one character I'm excited about playing, I'll be on board in an instant. Given their track record, that might not happen, though...





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"Re(5):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Wed 4 Jun 13:14post reply

quote:
First screenshot of Adachi!

I don't even remember what Adachi looks like in Persona. ムフ♡


<きれいな顔してるだろ・・ 死んでるんだぜ・・・


Second screenshot of Adachi!





chazumaru
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"Re(6):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Wed 4 Jun 19:27post reply

quote:
<きれいな顔してるだろ・・ 死んでるんだぜ・・・

ウソみたいだろ ・・・ Fun game to play at Book-Off or similar used bookstores: try to buy Volume 7 of Touch. It is usually the hardest one to find by far. I took me something like eight tries before I finally found a Book-Off that had a copy. I guess it's the only one that people keep.

quote:
Second screenshot of Adachi!

Ah! That guy! I understand better now.

Iggy told me a new DOA5U character "Onna Tengu" has been announced/leaked but I don't see that news covered anywhere. 2ch hoax? Any picture floating around?





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"Re(7):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Wed 4 Jun 21:11post reply

quote:
Iggy told me a new DOA5U character "Onna Tengu" has been announced/leaked but I don't see that news covered anywhere. 2ch hoax? Any picture floating around?



Onna Tengu sounds like a serious hoax but it's actually true.

https://twitter.com/getaway565/status/474080704846778369/photo/1
https://twitter.com/TeamNINJAStudio/status/473645235235332096/photo/1
https://twitter.com/TeamNINJAStudio/status/473645058986487808/photo/1





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"Re(7):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Wed 4 Jun 21:16post reply

Can anyone fill me in on why this new character is cool? Everyone seems excited, but he looks very bland compared to the others...
As for the DoA5 character, here is the bare:


AC『デッドオアアライブ5 アルティメット アーケード』

6月下旬にバージョンアップ予定


女天狗(CV:佐藤朱)参戦決定

人智を超えた戦闘スタイル「天狗道」で、
翼を使った空中殺法や、突風を発生させる攻撃などトリッキーな技を使用

年齢:1018歳
好物:まんじゅう
バストは93で、胸元がすぐにはだけそうな衣装も
背中には黒い翼がついている


家庭用版も同時期にバージョンアップし、PHASE4が解禁
運動会をイメージした新しいコスチュームも追加される

Voice actress and boobs size. I'd say it's legit.





Ishmael
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"Re(8):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Wed 4 Jun 21:45post reply

Decapre's ability to blip all over the screen is a hoot but I'm determined to focus on the latest grappler first no matter how bad he might be. Throw them Hugo, throw them all!

quote:
I really don't know what to make of that MKX video thingy. The models look great until the motion capture ends and the terrible hand animation kicks in. That combined with the puzzling choice of music makes it look like Ed Boon's contribution to the Harlem Shake.


It was remarkable that in order to hint that new gameplay elements were being showcased (and, possibly, to trick people into thinking this was in-game footage) the trailer suddenly switched over to traditional herky-jerky MK animation. Were people supposed to be excited about seeing the characters back in their shuffling old style of movement? Nostalgia is irrational but this may be taking it too far.
quote:

Then again, I'm not sure if most people who play MK actually pay attention to the plot.


I enjoy game plots as much as the next person but putting too much faith in the MK storyline might drive someone to drink. For a story built around death matches have there been any storyline deaths that have stuck? At this point Sub-Zero has been young, old and some sort of proto ice god so I have no idea how they are going to present him this time other than that he will be in MKX because he's a core member of the roster. Considering that MK: Armageddon was built around a supernatural bout of "king of the mountain" I'm certain the writers can come up with a flimsy and suitably absurd reason to reboot Sub-Zero yet again.

quote:
Iggy told me a new DOA5U character "Onna Tengu" has been announced/leaked but I don't see that news covered anywhere. 2ch hoax? Any picture floating around?


Onna Tengu sounds like a serious hoax but it's actually true.


Where does the headdress end and the hair begin? She might be great fun if those wings are back are used for more than ornamentation.





chazumaru
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"Re(9):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Thu 5 Jun 03:08post reply

quote:
She might be great fun if those wings are back are used for more than ornamentation.


パタパタ

The S&M Tengulatex costume is a view to behold.





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Just a Person
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"Re(8):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Thu 5 Jun 03:11:post reply

quote:
She might be great fun if those wings are back are used for more than ornamentation.

パタパタ

The S&M Tengulatex costume is a view to behold.



Good to know that at least she's not another clone of Kasumi (...I think). Some of her moves make her look a little goofy, but overall she seems to be an interesting fighter.





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[this message was edited by Just a Person on Thu 5 Jun 03:12]

chazumaru
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"Re(9):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Thu 5 Jun 03:18post reply

Actually, after watching the trailer a couple of times, I find her pretty fun. She looks like an amalgam of cool stuff: some Morrigan animations, Zangi&Darun's pile drivers in Street Fighter EX, Heihachi Mishima's sweep kicks, finish animations in the vein of Bayonetta... Pretty shameless collect-a-thon of cool video game references. With the funny accent to boot and two mesmerizing costumes.





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Mosquiton
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"Re(3):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Thu 5 Jun 03:58:post reply

quote:

Watch_Dogs sales, despite the brouhaha of complaints in recent weeks, have demonstrated that such deceiving tactics actually pay off. People know they get cheated yet they go for it anyway. Video Games have evolved into those late Saturday night clubbing girls wearing a suspicious amount of make-up.



The thing is, I feel like there's a good chance they'll show actual gameplay at E3. In that case there would be a pretty immediate comparison. (And then, the next morning...)

That's just my feeling, anyway. Who knows?

quote:
Decapre's ability to blip all over the screen is a hoot but I'm determined to focus on the latest grappler first no matter how bad he might be. Throw them Hugo, throw them all!


My favorite way to throw them all is wall bounce throw into EX clap into Ultra 2 (clap optional).

I like in general how most of the new cast can fairly easily combo into their Ultra combos! I learned to FADC into Ultra with Adon, but it feels nice to just tag one on after an EX move.

Also loving the changes to T. Hawk. Mexican Typhoon 4Eva.





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Thu 5 Jun 04:19]

Just a Person
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"Re(6):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Thu 5 Jun 04:07post reply

quote:
First screenshot of Adachi!

I don't even remember what Adachi looks like in Persona. ムフ♡

<きれいな顔してるだろ・・ 死んでるんだぜ・・・


Second screenshot of Adachi!



How about the real artwork and first screenshot of Adachi this time?





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karasu
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"Re(7):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Thu 5 Jun 04:16post reply

quote:
First screenshot of Adachi!

I don't even remember what Adachi looks like in Persona. ムフ♡

<きれいな顔してるだろ・・ 死んでるんだぜ・・・


Second screenshot of Adachi!


How about the real artwork and first screenshot of Adachi this time?



I'm excited about Adachi! I had been a bit lukewarm about the game until they started announcing all these extras!

Now, おばあちゃん Tengu... I guess it's that I've given up on DoA in general, but she's not all that interesting to me, and I don't personally care for the design.

quote:
Watch_Dogs sales, despite the brouhaha of complaints in recent weeks, have demonstrated that such deceiving tactics actually pay off. People know they get cheated yet they go for it anyway. Video Games have evolved into those late Saturday night clubbing girls wearing a suspicious amount of make-up.

This has really only become a problem in relatively recent times, since in the SuperFami era we had to rely on a tiny, grainy photo in a magazine to have any idea what a game would look like. I think it's interesting that the distance between cut scene and gameplay has gotten so close that people can even remotely hope that the quality will be the same for both.






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"Re(8):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Thu 5 Jun 06:46post reply

People are saying that this "woman tengu" of doa have the same moveset of the "male tengu" from old games.
I find it fun to see her flying with the wings...too used to see "tengu" representations beeing just someone with a mask, and not a actual bird-monster.

The update of DFC with Miyuki and Taiga is comming tomorrow acording to Terada (the guy from sega staff side of dfc)
https://twitter.com/Terra_cap/status/473809320459513856/photo/1

As the only footage was a single scripted match to show their special moves, i'm very curious to see how they will actually be...





Ishmael
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"Re(9):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Thu 5 Jun 09:28post reply

I'm impressed how even the smallest changes can radically change the way a character plays. I'm not good with either Chun-Li or Oni but even I can tell that Oni feels weaker in USF4 while Chun-Li is back to living up to her "strongest woman in the world" title.

quote:
Also loving the changes to T. Hawk. Mexican Typhoon 4Eva.


...and then there's T.Hawk. This guy feels crazy now! I could play a respectable character or I could fly around the screen ramming everything with my head. Tough call. If T.Hawk came with a Billy Jack alt. costume he would be my new main.

quote:
People are saying that this "woman tengu" of doa have the same moveset of the "male tengu" from old games.

I like that Tengirl -or whatever her name is going to be- is listed as 1018 years old. All those fictitious have to be over 18 even if they're a thousand years past their eighteen birthday. After seeing how much she uses her wings I'm now hoping for a new volleyball game just so I can have her playing the net at all times.





Mosquiton
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"Re(10):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Edit" , posted Fri 6 Jun 02:05post reply

quote:
...and then there's T.Hawk. This guy feels crazy now! I could play a respectable character or I could fly around the screen ramming everything with my head. Tough call. If T.Hawk came with a Billy Jack alt. costume he would be my new main.


I often use the fuzzy pants alt, but speaking of respect, I find that by the third or fourth time in a match you slam your opponent's face into the dirt the respect meter will have risen nicely.

And Raging Slash is still the most brutal looking Ultra.





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"Re(4):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Fri 6 Jun 13:41post reply

quote:

The thing is, I feel like there's a good chance they'll show actual gameplay at E3. In that case there would be a pretty immediate comparison. (And then, the next morning...)



I have a feeling you are right. This trailer was released too close to E3 for us NOT to see gameplay. It is a nice tease of what we may see (X-Rays, interact-ables, wonky animation, etc.)

I know a lot of people are raising a ruckus over the use of non-gameplay footage for a trailer, but in this case it isn't TOO bad. I know I would personally prefer actual gameplay myself, but this teaser makes no claims of being gameplay footage or fake gameplay footage like Watch_Dogs and many other games that are presented in a similar manner.

It almost hearkens back to old PS1 commercials that just used CGI cutscenes from the game and never any actual gameplay like FF7. Sure that footage was in the actual game, but it didn't look like that 97% of the time you are playing

On to Ultra Street Fighter IV.

I have been having a very good time with Hugo. I grinded out to 19th on PSN for Hugos on day one, but saw that I dropped to the 150s today

His size/hit boxes are fairly weird. I am not talking about Sagat high tiger shot phasing through him as that was also in SFxT, but other weird stuff like due to his size he gets hit by Goukens diagonal Hadouken from full screen. His get up animation from dizzy seems to be a much different timing than other characters as a lot of people have mistimed their level 3 focus on me after they have dizzied me.

You can notice it in the third round in this video of me making an amazing comeback the other day.

I also like the Youtube upload feature, BTW

There is also a frame data app out there on both the iOS and Android stores by brady games, but you will see it on the stores under "Dorling Kindersley" $2.99. It's okay, but could use a bit of work. I am sure someone will copy that data down and post it somewhere within the week though.





Mosquiton
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"Re(5):Fighting Game Thread 6: Head Swap Editi" , posted Fri 6 Jun 15:06:post reply

quote:

I have been having a very good time with Hugo. I grinded out to 19th on PSN for Hugos on day one, but saw that I dropped to the 150s today

His size/hit boxes are fairly weird. I am not talking about Sagat high tiger shot phasing through him as that was also in SFxT, but other weird stuff like due to his size he gets hit by Goukens diagonal Hadouken from full screen. His get up animation from dizzy seems to be a much different timing than other characters as a lot of people have mistimed their level 3 focus on me after they have dizzied me.

You can notice it in the third round in this video of me making an amazing comeback the other day.

I also like the Youtube upload feature, BTW


Wow, nice match! They were all over you, way to hang in there and pull out the victory. Love the empty cross-ups finishing both rounds. It's like you were some sort of "Madman" or something!

Edit: I put the link back where I quoted you to make sure other people didn't miss it.





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Fri 6 Jun 15:10]

Ishmael
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"Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Sat 7 Jun 07:32post reply

Any thoughts on double Ultras? Before when I picked an Ultra I often thought about all the options I was losing by not having the other Ultra. Now with both I find I'm thinking about the damage I lost from trying to cover all my bases. I'm a fickle player.

quote:
His size/hit boxes are fairly weird. I am not talking about Sagat high tiger shot phasing through him as that was also in SFxT, but other weird stuff like due to his size he gets hit by Goukens diagonal Hadouken from full screen. His get up animation from dizzy seems to be a much different timing than other characters as a lot of people have mistimed their level 3 focus on me after they have dizzied me.

Nice Hugo match!

Odd, I just had someone miss their lvl.3 focus on my Hugo as well. At the time I chalked it up to lag but now I'm beginning to realize just how oddly placed the hurtboxes on Hugo really are. Since he's as big as a tree -and moves about as quickly- it's not surprising the programmers had trouble figuring out where he could be hit to keep him from instantly getting mauled. I wonder if there are going to be combos that can only be performed on Hugo due to his size and there are points in his animation when parts of him simply aren't there.





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"Re(1):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Sat 7 Jun 09:49:post reply

quote:
Any thoughts on double Ultras? Before when I picked an Ultra I often thought about all the options I was losing by not having the other Ultra. Now with both I find I'm thinking about the damage I lost from trying to cover all my bases. I'm a fickle player.



If you're playing a character that has huge damage output already, and if they're a grappler like T. Hawk, Hugo, or Gief where one of your options is an anti-air that can make your opponents scared to jump, I think Double Ultra is pretty fun/effective.

Grapplers already do a massive amount of damage with normal/EX moves, and lot of times the Ultra damage is overkill (In Geki's second round victory for example).

On the other hand I don't really practice what I preach. Since you can connect T. Hawks anti-air Ultra 2 from a focus attack, and I don't really think Ultra 1 looks that cool anyway, I just roll with Raging Slash and enjoy the extra damage.

Since Adon is my secondary character and I feel less pressure to win with him, I pretty much always use double ultra for fun. I'm always flying over people with Ultra 1/Jaguar Revolver out of a focus attack, but the elbow smashes look amazing when it connects, and some people just love to throw fireballs. And Ultra 2 already barely does any damage most of the time, it almost never fails to disappoint me. Neither one feels crucial so why not enjoy both?

So what I took all this time to say is "It depends on the character."

BUT! I would say if you like both of your character's Ultras, go for the Double unless you're playing ranked or in a super-serious grudge match.





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sat 7 Jun 09:50]

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"A History of Ports" , posted Sat 7 Jun 19:04post reply

I really like this Youtube account's comparisons of video game ports. The owner mainly does a lot of fighting game comparisons.





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"Re(2):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Sun 8 Jun 10:23post reply

quote:

If you're playing a character that has huge damage output already, and if they're a grappler like T. Hawk, Hugo, or Gief where one of your options is an anti-air that can make your opponents scared to jump, I think Double Ultra is pretty fun/effective.

Grapplers already do a massive amount of damage with normal/EX moves, and lot of times the Ultra damage is overkill (In Geki's second round victory for example).

That is a good idea but the trouble is when I play grapplers I'm always thinking about how to land that Big Hit. Throw characters don't always have the best methods of getting in so when I do get close to an opponent I want to do as much damage as I can. Trading versatility for damage is the antithesis of how I play. I'm not two dimensional in my approach, I'm refined.

Speaking of closing the gap, has anybody had much luck with Hugo against a strong fireball character? I suspect a patient Guile or Sagat is going to give big boy some problems. Luckily everyone online seems to think that making Rolento roll around on the ground is cool for some reason so I haven't faced much in the way of projectiles.





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"Re(3):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Sun 8 Jun 11:50post reply

quote:

That is a good idea but the trouble is when I play grapplers I'm always thinking about how to land that Big Hit. Throw characters don't always have the best methods of getting in so when I do get close to an opponent I want to do as much damage as I can. Trading versatility for damage is the antithesis of how I play. I'm not two dimensional in my approach, I'm refined.



Sounds like you're becoming less fickle? Like I said, I do stick with the single Ultra with T. Hawk... but no matter how much damage your Ultra does that one Big Hit isn't going to win the match by itself.

quote:

Speaking of closing the gap, has anybody had much luck with Hugo against a strong fireball character? I suspect a patient Guile or Sagat is going to give big boy some problems. Luckily everyone online seems to think that making Rolento roll around on the ground is cool for some reason so I haven't faced much in the way of projectiles.



From what I hear the super Hugo blastoff launch and the clap are both a little iffy due to being really strict on timing. FADCing and trying to slap them with a jumping HP seems to be the way to go.





/ / /

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"Re(4):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Mon 9 Jun 04:22post reply

quote:

GekigangerV Hugo Match

Wow! Great comeback there. I thought you were dead for sure. But you retaliated!

I'm also been enjoying Ultra a lot, and I haven't been this engaged with street fighter 4 since the first Super SF4. I think Decapre may be my favorite newcomer in SF4. She combines my love of charge characters and rushdowns in a way I never thought was possible to do in one character. And I'm slowly learning how to play with her. I also like the upload feature, though it does crap out a lot and is usually a pretty slow, long process. But I can get to show off my matches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q2dYVvFX6E

(I'm particularly proud of that ending )

There're also the general system changes, which are probably the biggest since the vanilla SF4. I was surprised to learn that Red Focus also has offensive combo applications in addition to the defensive ones. And been trying to find ways to use them, like this Decapre Combo, which is honestly not that all useful.

I'm also loving the changes to Makoto. I love that her EX DP hits and allows for some fancy combos. I also like the buffs to Dudley and Hakan (who can now use oiled up Red Focus while moving, which is really menacing).

We'll see if I keep this level of excitement weeks from now. Though I guess EVO will help maintain it at least, if not increase it.





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"Re(5):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Mon 9 Jun 21:21post reply

quote:
We'll see if I keep this level of excitement weeks from now. Though I guess EVO will help maintain it at least, if not increase it.


Being primarily a PC gamer these days, I won't even see Ultra until August.

Though maybe the extra months will give Capcom time to fix the issues recently introduced into the PC version of SSF4AE when they moved from GFWL to Steamworks. (It has not been a smooth transition.)





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"Re(6):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Tue 10 Jun 06:41post reply

Nice job on the Decapre fight! While I like Decapre's weird attacks and her charge motions -all proper Shadaloo agents should have charge moves- I still don't feel too confident with her. Too often when I'm trying to use a jab combo I end up getting her fast hands. I've never thought I had quick fingers but due to inexperience I'm a bit too mash happy to play her correctly.

At some point I should try and upload a YouTube video of one of my matches. Then again, that would require I do well in an online match so it may be some time before I have anything to share.

quote:
I'm also loving the changes to Makoto. I love that her EX DP hits and allows for some fancy combos. I also like the buffs to Dudley and Hakan (who can now use oiled up Red Focus while moving, which is really menacing).

I'm still not quite certain what to make of Makoto's changes. At least I understand the reasoning behind what they did to her since they want her to be more varied instead of having her hop around until she lands a brain dead set-up for U1. That's fine for Rufus but Makoto seems capable of more.





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"Re(7):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Fri 20 Jun 00:14post reply

A quick double post to thank The Professor for continuing to support the MMCafe Tierchart Maker. Every discussion I have seen of tiers in any fighting game invariably has a MMCafe chart attached. Fighting game fans don't agree on anything except for when it comes to using the tier chart.





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"Re(8):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Wed 2 Jul 01:40post reply

Sin Kiske is going to be in GGXrd and his gimmick is... eating? Is it a Zappa sort of mechanic or is it more of a Hakan sort of thing? I don't know but I would rather think about that than Sin's creepy backstory.

An unfinished Primal Rage 2 arcade game has finally found its way out into the public eye. If this game had received a proper release I doubt I would care for it at all but that it only lives on today as a nearly lost curio fascinates me.





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"Re(9):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Tue 8 Jul 00:01post reply

I know that MMCafe is primarily a site for freemium apps but I'm one of those odd types who enjoys the occasional fighting game. Luckily someone out there shares my genre interest since it was announced that Under Night In-Birth is getting a US release. Does anyone have any thoughts about this game? Does it play well? Is it worth trying out simply for the animation?





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"Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Tue 8 Jul 00:55post reply

quote:
I know that MMCafe is primarily a site for freemium apps but I'm one of those odd types who enjoys the occasional fighting game. Luckily someone out there shares my genre interest since it was announced that Under Night In-Birth is getting a US release. Does anyone have any thoughts about this game? Does it play well? Is it worth trying out simply for the animation?



Ishmael, I feel that while I can't contribute much to the conversation of UNIB (hey, nice acronym!) I have to rescue you from continuing a conversation with yourself!

I truth I haven't posted much since I've been away from my computer for the last two weeks in the wilds of New Zealand, discussing the BBC Micro with the locals. Posting at the Cafe at length isn't the easiest via mobile.

So! All I can say about UNIB is that I witnessed a bit of it in Tokyo last July and visually it blew me away. I know Nobi had the same reaction so maybe he can speak about it. Gameplay wise... I can't say, except that for me, even a bad fighting game is good on some level. I'm sure I'll grab up a copy at the US release!






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"Re(8):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Tue 8 Jul 01:03:post reply

quote:
A quick double post to thank The Professor for continuing to support the MMCafe Tierchart Maker. Every discussion I have seen of tiers in any fighting game invariably has a MMCafe chart attached. Fighting game fans don't agree on anything except for when it comes to using the tier chart.



Thanks about the praise on the tiermaker! I should upgrade the user interface to make it more convenient. There's actually a few easter eggs in there (like hitting ! on your keyboard on the Marvel chart duplicates the character which you just clicked on) which should be better documented.

As for UNI, I'm wondering if I should pick it up-- the graphics are quite awesome and I recall nobi was praising it high not only for its animation but also because for its momentum, ie the way the opponent moves when they get hit. Between UNI and P4U2 though, I'd certainly pick UNI.





[this message was edited by Professor on Tue 8 Jul 01:05]

nobinobita
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"Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Tue 8 Jul 06:31post reply

quote:
I know that MMCafe is primarily a site for freemium apps but I'm one of those odd types who enjoys the occasional fighting game. Luckily someone out there shares my genre interest since it was announced that Under Night In-Birth is getting a US release. Does anyone have any thoughts about this game? Does it play well? Is it worth trying out simply for the animation?



Beautiful game. Has some of the best animation in recent memory, not just for the way it looks, but the way it FEELS and relates to gameplay.

Everything is nice and snappy. A lot of fighting games feel a bit floaty or overly sticky to me, but UNIB feels just right. The relationship between how the moves look and how much hit stun they do is perfect. UNIB has the speed of Guilty Gear with the weight of a CvS game.

I can't speak for the high level play, but its the most fun I've had mashing buttons in a long time (I played against the Professor about ... a little over a year ago now?).

Keep in mind I'm also highly swayed by the presence of Merkava, the coolest 'monster' type character I've seen in a game in forever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWVy5POexjQ






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"Re(2):Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Wed 9 Jul 22:28post reply

Thanks for the info on UNIB everyone! It sounds like a lot of fun so I'll be certain to pick up a copy when it is released in six to nine months from now. I better get in my pre-order soon.

quote:
Ishmael, I feel that while I can't contribute much to the conversation of UNIB (hey, nice acronym!) I have to rescue you from continuing a conversation with yourself!

But I was so enjoying having a conversation with my intellectual equal!

Evo continues to get more and more mainstream press. At the rate things are going I expect that in a few years there will be ESPN shows where talking heads don't discuss some ball related sport but instead babble on about corner combos.





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"Re(9):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Thu 10 Jul 18:44post reply

quote:
As for UNI, I'm wondering if I should pick it up-- the graphics are quite awesome and I recall nobi was praising it high not only for its animation but also because for its momentum, ie the way the opponent moves when they get hit. Between UNI and P4U2 though, I'd certainly pick UNI.



If you pick up UNI you'll be guaranteed some male bonding with other members of the board. From my personal perspective, the game is worthy based on the combo of graphics, portraits and soundtrack alone (example).

Gameplay wise, it has many common factors with current day "anime games", the characters are tragically simple to pick up, but they still have a "more detailed side" that benefits from practicing extensily the possibilities of the character (I guess Blaz Blue players understand this feeling?); the characters have enough strategic quirks to feel unique.

French Bread stated that they were much more careful with the game flow of this game compared to Melty Blood, and in my opinion it totally shows.






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"Re(3):Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Thu 10 Jul 20:41post reply

quote:
Evo continues to get more and more mainstream press. At the rate things are going I expect that in a few years there will be ESPN shows where talking heads don't discuss some ball related sport but instead babble on about corner combos.

This day is closer than you may think, but unfortunately it won't be for traditional fighters: the big DOTA2 tournament with a 10 million dollars prize is the first tournament I've ever heard of to be broadcast in a few traditional pubs in London.
Granted, there's one pub for every 10 British person in London so that's not a lot, but still... that game scares me. There was that other tournament where 30k people went to a stadium in Frankfurt to see live...





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"Re(4):Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Thu 10 Jul 23:56post reply

There is an entire official setup of "Pubstomps" sponsored by Valve where you can register your pub for event viewing and get various stuff. Valve is very very aware of the spectator sport potential of DOTA2, and they've done more for it than any other has in the field. Some southeast asian countries have public viewing areas for the event, too!

At the 8 million dollar mark for the tournament prize pool, this tournament also equalled the sum total of the prizes of all prior dota tournaments combined, including the previous million+ ones that Valve hosted. With 10+ million, it's certainly a historic moment in the industry.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Fri 11 Jul 03:08post reply

More news about unib

Aksys just announced that they will have a playable build in EVO, with the new characters
https://twitter.com/aksysgames/status/487287218688360449

there was a new pv that was finded 2 days ago, lost in playstation jp youtube account. This was uploaded to nico and youtube account of ASW now, and linked in the game website.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23973650
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekFYLjMCnfE

And Kamone, the battle planner of Melty blood, Unib, DFC and that Koihime FG was at 電人☆ゲッチャ last stream. He bringed on a copy of the console version, and showed up a little more of the new characters.
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv183872151
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Mc02OzD0OKk#t=210

obs: Nanase theme resemble the old works of french bread...when they were a doujin company. Specially Queen of hearts 2k1.





nobinobita
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"Re(4):Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Fri 11 Jul 04:23post reply

quote:
Evo continues to get more and more mainstream press. At the rate things are going I expect that in a few years there will be ESPN shows where talking heads don't discuss some ball related sport but instead babble on about corner combos.
This day is closer than you may think, but unfortunately it won't be for traditional fighters: the big DOTA2 tournament with a 10 million dollars prize is the first tournament I've ever heard of to be broadcast in a few traditional pubs in London.
Granted, there's one pub for every 10 British person in London so that's not a lot, but still... that game scares me. There was that other tournament where 30k people went to a stadium in Frankfurt to see live...



What is the appeal of mobas and dotas? Are they really that fun and accessible? Or is it more that it's just better suited to the current state of games where PCs are global while consoles are limited to certain territories and MOBAs have gameplay that isn't destroyed by lag while fighting games can only truly be enjoyed with people in the same room who all have decades more experience playing at a high level than any newcomer?

(I'm old and angry! Someone explain this to me!)






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"Re(5):Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Fri 11 Jul 04:56post reply

quote:
What is the appeal of mobas and dotas? Are they really that fun and accessible?
Fun probably, accessible definitely not. I am baffled not only by the mainstreamisation of the genre (after all, masses are allowed to play whatever they damn want), but by the fact that so many people seem to enjoy going out and watching the matches outside like it's a social occasion, even though it's a complex game that requires a lot of concentration to follow globally, and the pacing of tournament is horrendous (you have like 15 minutes between each match used up by the ban/pick process). Or maybe that's also part of the meta game, so that's exciting too? But then, why would anyone enjoy watching that in a crowded, noisy pub?
The other side of my bewilderment is that fighting games didn't manage to reach that. They are short matches of quick and fun excitement that you can enjoy watching at a superficial level even if the only thing you know is "A tries to punch B and B tries to punch A", where the only down time are the button check each time the players change... Why didn't that become popular as a social gathering and alcoholic excuse?





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"Re(5):Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Fri 11 Jul 04:57post reply

quote:
Evo continues to get more and more mainstream press. At the rate things are going I expect that in a few years there will be ESPN shows where talking heads don't discuss some ball related sport but instead babble on about corner combos.
This day is closer than you may think, but unfortunately it won't be for traditional fighters: the big DOTA2 tournament with a 10 million dollars prize is the first tournament I've ever heard of to be broadcast in a few traditional pubs in London.
Granted, there's one pub for every 10 British person in London so that's not a lot, but still... that game scares me. There was that other tournament where 30k people went to a stadium in Frankfurt to see live...


What is the appeal of mobas and dotas? Are they really that fun and accessible? Or is it more that it's just better suited to the current state of games where PCs are global while consoles are limited to certain territories and MOBAs have gameplay that isn't destroyed by lag while fighting games can only truly be enjoyed with people in the same room who all have decades more experience playing at a high level than any newcomer?

(I'm old and angry! Someone explain this to me!)



Imagine an rpg fighting game that is tolerant of moderate lag, allows a whole bunch of people to play at once, has lower execution requirements than a fighting game, runs on whatever computer you have, and is free to play. It is populated by characters that have personalities and distinct appearances, and even a weaker player can be part of the team and make a contribution. The game is frequently updated with new characters, character tweaks, rule tweaks, etc.

Imagine if every year super turbo got more super and more turbo for free. It is more personal than a regular rts, but not as fiercely individual as a fighting game. It is also very very deep and very very complex. Consider how much depth there is in team composition in marvel vs capcom, and now add rpg and map and elements to it. On top of all that, like a fighting game, there are lots of possibilities for dramatic/creative/skillful in-the-moment plays.

Tl;dr what part of multiplayer rpg rts character fighting gamr doesn't sound good to you?





nobinobita
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"What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 05:17:post reply

quote:
Evo continues to get more and more mainstream press. At the rate things are going I expect that in a few years there will be ESPN shows where talking heads don't discuss some ball related sport but instead babble on about corner combos.
This day is closer than you may think, but unfortunately it won't be for traditional fighters: the big DOTA2 tournament with a 10 million dollars prize is the first tournament I've ever heard of to be broadcast in a few traditional pubs in London.
Granted, there's one pub for every 10 British person in London so that's not a lot, but still... that game scares me. There was that other tournament where 30k people went to a stadium in Frankfurt to see live...


What is the appeal of mobas and dotas? Are they really that fun and accessible? Or is it more that it's just better suited to the current state of games where PCs are global while consoles are limited to certain territories and MOBAs have gameplay that isn't destroyed by lag while fighting games can only truly be enjoyed with people in the same room who all have decades more experience playing at a high level than any newcomer?

(I'm old and angry! Someone explain this to me!)


Imagine an rpg fighting game that is tolerant of moderate lag, allows a whole bunch of people to play at once, has lower execution requirements than a fighting game, runs on whatever compute

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


Just echoing Iggy's sentiments. I've never tried playing a moba (I've just never seen one with characters that appealed to me), but i also have no idea what's going on even after watching several matches on video. With a fighting game you know exactly what's going on at a glance. Maybe you don't get the high level decision making, but it's so easy to digest for a first time player as well as a first time audience.

Just wondering why Fighting Games never got to this level.

But i guess to answer my own question they were crippled by:

-high barrier to entry with hardware and software (you need a console or an arcade)
-gameplay doesn't translate well to laggy internet environment
-MOBA/DOTA has a history of forward thinking leadership behind the companies. Western companies that made inroads in China and Korea early on. Fighting games are crippled by baffling leadership at SNK and Capcom.
-Insular community that's kinda harsh on new players (not always the case, but it's the case too often)

TLDR:
Bandai should make a free to play MOBA starring all the Shonen Jump comics characters (starting from the 80s to present day). This would easily be the biggest game in the world.






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Fri 11 Jul 05:18]

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"Re(6):Re(10):Hugo pawn in game of life" , posted Fri 11 Jul 05:51post reply

quote:
What is the appeal of mobas and dotas? Are they really that fun and accessible?Fun probably, accessible definitely not. I am baffled not only by the mainstreamisation of the genre (after all, masses are allowed to play whatever they damn want), but by the fact that so many people seem to enjojy going out and watching the matches outside like it's a social occasion, even though it's a complex game that requires a lot of concentration to follow globally, and the pacing of tournament is horrendous (you have like 15 minutes between each match used up by the ban/pick process). Or maybe that's also part of the meta game, so that's exciting too? But then, why would anyone enjoy watching that in a crowded, noisy pub?
The other side of my bewilderment is that fighting games didn't manage to reach that. They are short matches of quick and fun excitement that you can enjoy watching at a superficial level even if the only thing you know is "A tries to punch B and B tries to punch A", where the only down time are the button check each time the players change... Why didn't that become popular as a social gathering and alcoholic excuse?



What i've found is that the banning and picking becomes fun to consider once you know something about the teams, and more fun when you know something about the current trends. It's very much a spot where spectators can be armchair coaches or pundits, and people considering/arguing about a draft is not so different from doing the same about a soccer/hockey/etc. Lineup selection. It doesn't do anything for people with no familiarity with it, though.

Taking it as a spectator experience, it certainly doesn't have the immediately intuitive sense that fighting games do, where the lifebar and the clock are the ultimate arbiters of success. There's a lot of things vying for your attention, and this is why the casters have become sucha thing unto themselves: they're the hosts and guides of the spectator experience. They point the camera at thing they deem significant to the current state of affairs in the game, and provide narration and analysis. That the course of the game is longer winds up not being a huge negative for spectators because there is significant opportunity to witness the arc of the game. Now, that the games are as long as they are does in fact discourage me from playing them more, though.

I think we've long passed the point where basic rpg mechanics have eclipsed fighting game mechanics in terms of being common gaming knowledge. All the millions of people that played whatever mmorpg can immediately understand the basic mechanics of a moba, and that's the really important mechanical reference point.

I absolutely think that the genre can be innovated, and having a powerful ip will certainly make a huge difference. That's what.blizzard is doing with heroes of the storm. What dota has is literally a decade of refining itself. Don't forget that arcsys tried making a gg/dynasty warriors/dota fusion that was interesting but was mostly a commercial and critical failure.

With the pow





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"Re(1):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 07:48post reply

quote:
-Insular community that's kinda harsh on new players (not always the case, but it's the case too often)

Wait, are you talking about fighting games still? Have you heard anything about the friendliness of the LoL community, to newcomers or anyone else? I'd rather receive hatemail by a bunch of Flowchart Ken in SF4, thank you very much.

I agree that Valve being smart in their public relations makes a huge difference. They have set up several streams for the tournaments, including streams for noobs where the commentators refrain from using complex lingo and explain much more.
That's brilliant.
Yet I don't understand a thing of what's happening. I know the basic rules, I had a friend tutoring me through a few games so I have a basic knowledge of the development of a game... yet I'm too noob for the noob channel. I'm under-noob. Newbie-noob.
Obviously, I'm the one to blame: if a game is so massive that 30k people gather in a stadium to watch it, I'm the one too lazy to put my mind to learning what's happening. But compared to "A punches B until B doesn't stand up"...

The main difference, I think, is not only the lag being a non-issue, it's the fact muscle memory, and even reflexes (baring some crippling disease), are not necessary in a moba: everything lies within your own game knowledge and only that. that difference is even more important than not having to own a console or being available for free: you just need to learn, you don't need to train. Or rather, training only requires you to use your knowledge.
In a fighting game, you may know that a move is punishable or that you can combo from this to that move, but you also need to be able to plink those 1-frame links or whatever. There, the only physical barrier would be your capacity of swallowing huge amount of information and reacting to them.

I'm starting to think they are a game for a generation that has embraced a new relationship to global knowledge, a relationship based on wikipedia being accessible anytime anywhere. Our understanding of knowledge as something that you worked to make your own and to which you can access from your brain, because you may not find it anywhere else, is lagging in the XXth century.
That, or the masses of compulsive sociopaths that used to play 120 hours a week WoW or FFXI just found a new time-sink.





nobinobita
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"Re(2):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 08:15:post reply

quote:
I'm starting to think they are a game for a generation that has embraced a new relationship to global knowledge, a relationship based on wikipedia being accessible anytime anywhere. Our understanding of knowledge as something that you worked to make your own and to which you can access from your brain, because you may not find it anywhere else, is lagging in the XXth century.
That, or the masses of compulsive sociopaths that used to play 120 hours a week WoW or FFXI just found a new time-sink.


It's a generation whose hair trigger mouse and keyboard skills have been honed through endless late nights browsing porn sites, ready to close all windows and delete all histories at the slightest provocation with just a few efficient clicks.

You do bring up a really good point though, about how fighting games require much more skillfull, less forgiving execution. I think this is a generational thing.

When I talk to younger gamers, particularly designers, they think that 2d fighters are "too hard" meaning they don't want to take the time to learn how to do the inputs, much less the hours of practice required to learn how to execute combos. Many of them consider this an "artificial" way to make games more difficult. They point to stuff like MOBAs and Smash Bros where the strategy is in well, the strategy and not the execution.

I like to counter with my opinion that a core part of what makes for good controls (particularly for fighting games) is what FEELS good and not just what's easy to pull off. Part of the brilliance of Street Fighter 2 was how intuitive every special move was. The inputs paralleled the resulting action. The quarter circle motion makes you feel like you are throwing that fireball yourself. Having it ready at the press of a button isn't the same.

If all that mattered was ease of input then fighting games would ... well ... they'd become MOBAs haha.

Or maybe it's not even a generational thing. It could be a PC/mouse vs Console/Controller thing. I remember the first time i played Diablo i thought "wait, i just click on the enemies? That's it? Why is this fun?"






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Fri 11 Jul 08:16]

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"Re(2):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 08:25post reply

Sorry, it will go almost off topic. I think a big part of it is about the method of revenue aquisition.

-from the event organizers perspective

One of the easier groups to convince to sponsor a event are companies directly related to the event.
Developers/publishers of the games or manufacturers of merchandise of the game are the first options. Then manufacturers of accessories (monitors, pads, arcadesticks, headsets,etc), the , hotels and restaurants close to the place of the event are always options.
But aside of those, in consoles it will come down to 3 names: Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo. Because consoles are selled as closed boxes.
As Pcs aren't a closed boxes, they have hundreds of names instead of those 3. Every manufacturer of any component is a possible candidate. Motherboards, processors, video card, sound card, coolers, power supplies, hard drives, etc. So pcs have a cutting advatage.


-from the developers perspective
Console games can rely in cosmetic dlcs, but pc games can rely in this too and in something much more powerfull to assure profit : ads. This makes the freemium model works much more smothly in a pc/mobile environment.
Other thing that work in favor of pc and mobile is...in some extension, the games for console have to justify the purchase of the console. This usually creates a loop...of productions becoming more and more expensive.Pc games don't have to deal with it in the same extent, mobile games even less.
As they can't rely in a freemium model so easily, developers for console games end up relying in sells of games a lot more. If they change the marketing from one game to another every year, it won't let a game public growup.
Instead of seeling the same game for bigger and bigger public, it becomes about making the same public from 10 years ago go from buying a new game every year to buying 3 games every year.
The fgs company that have dealed with it in the best until now was namco bandai...not a surprise that they are the top japanese vg company in Toyo Keizai Ranks.

One company that can benefiting the most from this scenario is Tencent. They are the kings of ads and mobile message systems, and were really sucessfull. First they acquired Riot (together with LoL). Then they created a divison for software development. With this they entered mmos market, and are developing a fg (Xuan Dou Zhi Wang) following this freemium system for pc. And more: in a country were consoles are banned (China)





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"Re(3):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 08:38post reply

quote:
Sorry, it will go almost off topic. I think a big part of it is about the method of revenue aquisition.

-from the event organizers perspective

One of the easier groups to convince to sponsor a event are companies directly related to the event.
Developers/publishers of the games or manufacturers of merchandise of the game are the first options. Then manufacturers of accessories (monitors, pads, arcadesticks, headsets,etc), the , hotels and restaurants close to the place of the event are always options.
But aside of those, in consoles it will come down to 3 names: Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo. Because consoles are selled as closed boxes.
As Pcs aren't a closed boxes, they have hundreds of names instead of those 3. Every manufacturer of any component is a possible candidate. Motherboards, processors, video card, sound card, coolers, power supplies, hard drives, etc. So pcs have a cutting advatage.


-from the developers perspective
Console games can rely in cosmetic dlcs, but pc games can rely in this too and in something much more powerfull to assure profit : ads. This makes the freemium model works much more smothly in a pc/mobile environment.
Other thing that work in favor of pc and mobile is...in some extension, the games for console have to justify the purchase of the console. This usually creates a loop...of productions becoming more and more expensive.Pc games don't have to deal with it in the same extent, mobile games even less.
As they can't rely in a freemium m

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


Thanks for the very detailed explanation! Consoles just have so many constraints working against them when you compare them to PCs or even smart phones and tablets. I guess that's why Consoles will always be niche, even if a few games make billions.






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"Re(4):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 09:39post reply

I think this is a little of a exageration...the big companies of fgs have gone in the route of launching things first for arcade, then porting for console, and then porting for steam. If they can launch a game for all systems and please a bigger public, there's no reason to choose between consoles or PCs.

But PCs have a major problem with piratary. This was what pretty much culminated with the creation of "freemium" model. And this is problably the reason why they are the last to receive the ports from fgs usually.

The other problem is attacking both consoles and pc market might not be so advantageous if the 2 publics are isolated from each other.

If a company is able to make a effective crossplay (let people that use a system netplay with people using other system), those groups would be much more unified. But it would problably be difficult to make sony/nintendo agree with this kind of idea ^^".





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"Re(3):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 10:04post reply

quote:
there was a new pv that was finded 2 days ago, lost in playstation jp youtube account. This was uploaded to nico and youtube account of ASW now, and linked in the game website.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23973650
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekFYLjMCnfE


Nice video! UNIB is another in the surprisingly large number of fighting games I'm looking forward to playing in 2014/15.

quote:
Fun probably, accessible definitely not. I am baffled not only by the mainstreamisation of the genre (after all, masses are allowed to play whatever they damn want), but by the fact that so many people seem to enjoy going out and watching the matches outside like it's a social occasion, even though it's a complex game that requires a lot of concentration to follow globally, and the pacing of tournament is horrendous (you have like 15 minutes between each match used up by the ban/pick process). Or maybe that's also part of the meta game, so that's exciting too? But then, why would anyone enjoy watching that in a crowded, noisy pub?


Then again, most sports have horrendous pacing. American football and baseball are primarily hours and hours of watching people walk on and off a field. That built in down time seems to help the social aspect since people use that time to discuss the game as a whole, talk about unrelated subjects, eat greasy food or whatever. The rapid pace that fighting games bang through matches might honestly be a bit much.

quote:

When I talk to younger gamers, particularly designers, they think that 2d fighters are "too hard" meaning they don't want to take the time to learn how to do the inputs, much less the hours of practice required to learn how to execute combos. Many of them consider this an "artificial" way to make games more difficult. They point to stuff like MOBAs and Smash Bros where the strategy is in well, the strategy and not the execution.

I'm not certain it's generational as it is a matter of taste. To go back to sports, the main appeal of professional sports isn't the action, it's the numbers. People become obsessed with RBI's and other stats in sports. Fantasy leagues -in which people role play as team managers- exist for every sport imaginable. It's not about whether a team wins or loses, it's whether they fulfilled the obligations of the bracket the fan invented or whether they covered the point spread. Fans love to play armchair quarterback because the slow pace and multiple instant replays from different angles easily let them second guess the players on the field. A few players achieve prominence due to their athletic prowess but most are there to be slotted in and out based on their stats. Even though fans won't admit to it, most of them have a slow, methodical, sabermetric view of the game.

Fighting game fans are adrenaline junkies in comparison. Matches are fast, loud and intense. In most sports you figure out a plan of action and wait for events to unfold. In fighting games you need to be prepared to do anything at any moment. It's not that MOBA's are refined in comparison to fighting games, rather they are primarily focused on strategy over other skills. Fighting games end up being a weird mix of skills since you need the strategic mind to understand the match as well as the twitchy reflexes needed to maximize your strategy.

In summary, I believe the reason fighting games haven't found the mainstream success of something like DOTA2 is because they are far too quick and brutal for the average passive, mathematically inclined sports fan out there.





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"Re(4):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 13:04:post reply

quote:
Football & Baseball


Great points. Very good points.

But what about America's other no 1 sport, Basketball? (Which has far greater global appeal than American Football or Baseball)

It's non stop action with scores that often tally into triple digits. Like a fighting game, the players are also very visually distinct, easy to see and they have unique play styles. And the rules are super simple: get the ball through the hoop.






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Fri 11 Jul 13:04]

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"Re(3):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 13:19post reply

quote:
Ads


Ad revenue is a bit of tertiary thing on the two biggest mobas, though. League of Legends in EU and NA as well as DOTA2 do not display any ads except for sales in their own item shops in-game. Secondary economies such as the streamers can be ad and donation driven, but the primary revenues for the developers of LoL and DOTA are not. That the platforms on which competition can be done is more fungible is true, though. I highly recommend that you watch Valve's presentation about how they think about a game's financial economy, which you can find here. The ways in which Valve has monetized the professional scene should be an essay all on its own.

Smash is a bit of an interesting case with respect to fighting games, because manual execution absolutely does matter. The execution floor is just dramatically lowered: shoot a fireball by holding a side and pressing B. But if you want to do real combos or incorporate something like SHFFL into wavedash you absolutely need to spend some time practicing... just maybe not as much as the MvC3 players who need to learn combos for three different characters. I don't think that putting Smash into the same category as MOBAs is a good idea, though, because on the whole manual execution in Smash is still much more demanding than in most mobas.

I don't think that all of the motions used in fighting games make a whole lot of sense (what on earth is hurricane kick motion representing? why are Iori's punch chains done with it, too? How does forward teleport for Akuma correlate with the motion for dragon punch? etc.), but a bunch of them do. I feel that the technical and mechanical value they add to the game is significant (doing a cross-up on honda is valuable because it makes him lose the charge he needs for headbutt! The fact that Guile needs to charge for sonic booms merits their faster recovery, and forces him to use interesting normals to make him move while he charges! The fact that M.Bison/Vega needs to charge for his forward-moving specials means that if he wants to aggressively bully his opponent with his fast walk speed, strong pokes, and deadly standing short, he has to give up his ability to use those specials!), though.

If I wanted to talk about a feel thing that I like in action games that is also in DOTA2, it's that animation cancelling is important in it. For instance, you can pump fake opponents in order to make them burn defensive skills or make them juke the wrong way or scare them off in DOTA2 (not so much in LoL, though), or you can speed up the recovery of animations by cancelling into movement.

Reactions DO matter in mobas!
Here's an image that looks like pure chaos:
delta split
This is a famous play that occurred during the previous International tournament. What's happening in that image is that one of the characters on one team cast a spell that vacuumed three of the opposing team together, in the hopes of comboing with his teammate's ice blast (which would lock them in place) and then his own wall spell. The guys who got vacuumed together got lucky and the ice blast was cast just a fraction of a second too late, but they all immediately used an item on themselves that pushes them a short distance. The amount of time that each of them had to react to what was happening is of the same order as what a fighting game player would see, and you can see that if they had not reacted in time, they would've gotten caught by the ice blast (even though it was late). Unlike a regular fighting game, what items you have might not always be the same so your reactions also have to be tempered with recognition. Consider also that the three players who were faced with that situation all managed to react in time.

I don't want to come across as some super-defender of mobas, because frankly I don't actually play them myself anymore (not enough time). However, I do think that they are valid, complex, and interesting games, and that a lot of things that we like in other games are present in them, even if not everybody likes them for very valid reasons. I think that the entire laning phase looks like nonsense until someone gives you a thorough tutorial on the game, and even then it looks weird as hell. I think that the idea of autoattacks is mechanically ok and has been thoroughly integrated into the games they are in, but the more you think about every character with a ranged attack firing homing missiles and attacks automatically hitting if the target was in range when the attack started, the weirder it gets (it's a holdover from its RTS roots, and these traits don't feel so weird in those games).

I don't think that the current gameplay models of DOTA2 and LoL, even though they are the most successful ones, are the only valid ones. I think that watching Kenshiro level up and collect gold to buy equipment for 45 minutes by punching minions would be weird and stupid. I think that watching Kenshiro punching minions and them not reacting in any way to it would be weird. I think that Kenshiro starting out weak enough to be beaten up by a single mob of minions would be weird. And so on. Mobas have a lot of weird contrivances that you just have to accept if you are to play them, and it can be pretty hard to accept them and feel "immersed" in the game (as opposed to immersed in the competition of the game).





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"Re(4):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 18:17post reply

Football (soccer) feels pretty boring to me most of the time - it can take at least 90 minutes, its highlight moments (goals, the occasional foul) are infrequent to say the least (2 or 3 per game seems very little, so about 1 per half-hour). When I try to watch it it soon feels like a green blur filled with indistinct figures.

Yet it's a surprisingly popular sport, a borderline religion in some countries. I think it helps that a lot of people have played it in their youths - the cost of entry to experiment is some room to play, a ball and a few other willing people, and a lot of schools provide that at no extra cost - it's a pretty cost-efficient way to entertain 22 people and claim it as a health and social benefit for them.
Everyone has some notion of what's going on, and from their experience, even if they don't get to be the star player they can still be part of a team and feel they contribute by being an obstacle to attacking opponents even if they lack the precision to score goals or skill (plus tolerance to criticism) to be a goalkeeper, which can contribute to some armchair coaching.

Compare to an individual sport like tennis - fewer people have played it, if they try it against a more experienced opponent the skill gap becomes clearer and they may feel that bridging that gap is not a fun way to spend their time, there's some specific equipment involved too. You're expected to handle both offense and defense and they blend seamlessly at high-level play, and to a beginner each of those aspects can take a fair amount of training (running to hit the ball, ensuring the ball goes where you want it to go when you do hit it while avoiding the net...).

I've started dabbling in LoL a bit, and while watching somebody else's matches is still a blurry mess, as are moments with several characters concentrated in the same area, the game does have several possible objectives at any given time (farm mobs, assist another player, get more powerful items, max out an ability, focus on some specific lane or enemy player, etc...), and as a beginner you can try to focus on one or a few more of those while sticking with a character whose mechanics appeal to you - as you level up and gain more options, your understanding of the game and willingness to understand more aspects of what you've been doing and can do also expands, and most options are a key press or click away.
There's room for more execution-related abilities like last-hitting minions, comboing certain abilities and moving just outside the edge of enemy reach, but timing is more relevant than sheer execution there, and teaming up with better player makes it simpler to get used to things - not unlike single-player RPGs that early on team you up with powerful characters.

The broader structure of the game also invites some armchair coaching - 5 characters out of dozens to distribute among 3 lanes can feed a whole lot of discussion about whom should handle lanes solo or with a partner, which characters are better at what, which ones work well together or are good counters to each other.
It's still baffling to me LoL players make such a big deal of the differences between the top and bottom lanes when they seem identical, apart from their distance to some stronger neutral creatures, yet that seems to be a big deal in the meta. On that alone you already have plenty of fuel to comment a match before it's even begun proper.

Also, aesthetically LoL and DOTA2 seems to owe a lot to WoW, which is bound to click with a lot of people.


Some of these aspect could apply to a different model of fighting game, but the game closest to allowing it, Smash, has made a point of turning into a 1-on-1 thing competitively.
I really do wish there were more cooperative modes in FGs - it could encourage teaching by teaming up, instead of the teacher just beating the prospective student - , but there's just GG Isuka, Smash, and that mode in SFxT that screws up the whole team if a single character goes down.

DoA5U is on the right track with its Core Fighters version and a tag-team mode, but that seems to be on PSN only, under-promoted and weighed down by its fanservice reputation...

There are some arena fighters that handles their movesets in ways so far removed from conventional fighters that established players and promotional channels like some sites will barely touch them, so that doesn't help either.


For whatever reason I'm not reminded of a Bomberman game where players that lost got to stick around the sidelines of the arena and throw bombs at it, affecting people still in play - maybe something along those lines of an FG, where losing players could affect the edges/walls of the playing field or something to an extent could allow for a cooperation model with tolerance for failure...





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"Re(5):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Fri 11 Jul 22:55post reply

quote:
But what about America's other no 1 sport, Basketball? (Which has far greater global appeal than American Football or Baseball)

It's non stop action with scores that often tally into triple digits. Like a fighting game, the players are also very visually distinct, easy to see and they have unique play styles. And the rules are super simple: get the ball through the hoop.


I've always thought of UMvC3 as the basketball of fighters. All you have to do is replace "dunks" with "lightning loops" and "LeBron" with "Vergil." That analogy isn't 100% viable since there are people outside the United States that enjoy basketball.

In other news it seems that DoA is running a Halloween costume contest. Some of the entries are interesting, some are horrifying and some couldn't be bothered and submitted doodles on graph paper.





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"Re(6):What's the deal with MOBAs??" , posted Sat 12 Jul 00:56post reply

Some top Japanese players discuss USF4, with Daigo making a Battle Garegga reference.

http://www.4gamer.net/games/225/G022539/20140704102/





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"HOLY COW WATCH EVO2k14" , posted Sat 12 Jul 13:39:post reply

Upsets left and right! The sheer quantity of matches being played means that eliminations are happening off-stream and hearsay rules the day!

Daigo eliminates Alex Valle, but then real American hero John Choi avenges Valle and eliminates Daigo!

Kazunoko, the best Yun in the world, is out!

2/3 PREVIOUS EVO CHAMPIONS OF SF4 HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED!
Xian and Tokido are out!
Fuudo's razor sharp Fei Long is still alive.

Haitani is out!

Latif is out!

Sako is still in and is kicking ass with... Elena?!?!

EDIT: SO EXCITING I CAN'T EVEN SPELL THE YEAR RIGHT





[this message was edited by Spoon on Sat 12 Jul 15:06]

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"Re(1):HOLY COW WATCH EVO2k14" , posted Sat 12 Jul 15:42post reply

quote:
SO EXCITING I CAN'T EVEN SPELL THE YEAR RIGHT

I CAN'T BELIEVE MY EYES!!

This reminds me that like with the World Cup, I enjoy watching people cheer for people even more than I actually like cheering for people myself. The Valle-Choi-Umehara thing is cool.





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"Re(2):HOLY COW WATCH EVO2k14" , posted Sat 12 Jul 21:56post reply

I had to make an early start of it today so I couldn't sit through everything but I'm now anxious to watch the videos of the matches. Obviously with a tournament like this only one person is going to go home happy but it's still remarkable to see so much talent get booted off the stage in such a short period of time. Now if Snake Eyez can get through the gauntlet of Fei Longs in his way he can finally show the world the true power of Zangief. Ugh, how am I supposed to get anything done this weekend?





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"Re(3):HOLY COW WATCH EVO2k14" , posted Sat 12 Jul 22:26post reply

I heard Daigo was sent to losers and the John Choi defeated him off-stream? I need time to at least watch the top matches too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA9y69Zyi0E





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"Re(4):HOLY COW WATCH EVO2k14" , posted Sun 13 Jul 14:47:post reply

Jan, running a team of Hulk/Haggar/Shuma, has qualified for top 8 in the winner's bracket.

Angelic, running Dormammu/Wolverine/Shuma, almost makes top 8 on the losers bracket, but in the deciding match is eliminated by ChrisG.

Two teams with Shuma in the top 8 was inches away from being a reality. Crazy!





[this message was edited by Spoon on Sun 13 Jul 15:06]

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"Re(5):HOLY COW WATCH EVO2k14" , posted Mon 14 Jul 03:59post reply

Well, apparently Harada is going to show a teaser of Tekken 7 at Evo later today. UE4, PS4/XBone (and probably PC).
That's all sorts of smarts, since it will allow the game to be released in arcades in Japan and remain there while being released for home consoles everywhere else in the world.
If there is another time jump, I wonder if Roger Jr will be properly upgraded to boring Adult Roger level.

quote:
someone on twitter asked Harada about TxSF before and he just responded "Why isn't SFxT selling?"






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"Re(6):HOLY COW WATCH EVO2k14" , posted Tue 15 Jul 02:38post reply

Sunday's Evo was all about grown men crying on stage due to their love of video games while thousands screamed their approval. It was extraordinary, just extraordinary.





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"Re(7):HOLY COW WATCH EVO2k14" , posted Tue 15 Jul 07:10post reply

quote:
Sunday's Evo was all about grown men crying on stage due to their love of video games while thousands screamed their approval. It was extraordinary, just extraordinary.



I was a lot more excited when the announcer declared "THE RETURN OF THE KING!" when Justin Wong won umvc3 than when Germany won the world cup. The image of Garireo being overcome with emotion after winning Blazblue is burned into my mind.





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"BBCP getting Celica and Lambda-11" , posted Tue 15 Jul 21:53:post reply

[edit] Confirmed by latest Famitsu article w/pics.
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201407/17057209.html


According to an unconfirmed report on GameNyarth, Celica Mercury and Lambda-11 are going to be added as playable characters to the arcade version of BBCP in fall.

Celica is a character that came from the novel releases of Blazblue, but she should also be a familiar character to players that beat through BBCP's story mode. Reportedly as a playable character, she'll be fighting with a doll(Minerva) similarly to Carl and Relius. It says that Celica will be an easy character for beginner players. (From that, I'm naturally assuming that the doll won't be controlled seperately.)

Lambda-11 plays similarly to Nu-13 except with different drive attacks.


All we need now is maybe Mai=Natsume.





[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 17 Jul 00:59]

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"Re(1):BBCP getting Celica and Lambda-11" , posted Wed 16 Jul 01:00post reply

quote:
According to an unconfirmed report on GameNyarth, Celica Mercury and Lambda-11 are going to be added as playable characters to the arcade version of BBCP in fall.

Celica is a character that came from the novel releases of Blazblue, but she should also be a familiar character to players that beat through BBCP's story mode. Reportedly as a playable character, she'll be fighting with a doll(Minerva) similarly to Carl and Relius. It says that Celica will be an easy character for beginner players. (From that, I'm naturally assuming that the doll won't be controlled seperately.)

Lambda-11 plays similarly to Nu-13 except with different drive attacks.


All we need now is maybe Mai=Natsume.



Well that's certainly cool! Hopefully they'll make it into the console version... oh, who am I kidding? This just means we'll be getting BBCP+ or whatever as a new release.

There's also this, it seems. I'm all for additional characters being plopped into P4AU, even if I have to pay for em. Also, and I don't think it's been mentioned here, the fact that P4AU "will be region free for North and South America". While a lot of news sources have been happy to jump on the bandwagon saying 'it's region free', the oddly specific language used makes me think that the Japan version may still be region locked.






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"Re(1):BBCP getting Celica and Lambda-11" , posted Wed 16 Jul 04:57post reply

Meh, the only potential Blazblue character that would get me to go back to that game is Phantom.

Out of all the character announcements this past week, Lucina and Robin being added to Smash Bros is probably the one I appreciated most. The only thing that would have made that better is if there was a way to customize Robin into the Robin that I made.





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"Re(2):BBCP getting Celica and Lambda-11" , posted Wed 16 Jul 07:21post reply

quote:


Out of all the character announcements this past week, Lucina and Robin being added to Smash Bros is probably the one I appreciated most. The only thing that would have made that better is if there was a way to customize Robin into the Robin that I made.



I do kind of wish that they added Fire Emblem characters that didn't use swords. Yeah yeah Robin does things in addition to having a sword, but he still uses a sword. There has literally never been a playable FE character in Smash that didn't use a sword.





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"Prototype GGXrd" , posted Wed 16 Jul 18:53post reply

The making of GGXrd.
In Japanese, but full of interesting tidbits of information on how you actually make a game like that.
Also, prototype Sol > final Sol.





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"Re(1):Prototype GGXrd" , posted Wed 16 Jul 20:30post reply

quote:
The making of GGXrd.
In Japanese, but full of interesting tidbits of information on how you actually make a game like that.
Also, prototype Sol > final Sol.


there is a translation of it
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2099538&postcount=229





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"Re(1):Prototype GGXrd" , posted Thu 17 Jul 08:27post reply

quote:
Also, prototype Sol > final Sol.


Saul Goodguy there needs to be added to the roster immediately.





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"Re(2):Prototype GGXrd" , posted Thu 17 Jul 17:14post reply

quote:
Also, prototype Sol > final Sol.

Saul Goodguy there needs to be added to the roster immediately.

Yes! And he could be voiced by Ishiwatari again. And Bob Odenkirk for the English version.





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"Re(1):Prototype GGXrd" , posted Thu 17 Jul 17:59post reply

quote:
Also, prototype Sol > final Sol.



Also, Vanilla Sagat > Sagat.





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"UNIIII" , posted Fri 25 Jul 01:58post reply

I Picked up Undernight Inbirth-- I haven't played it much yet, thinking to give it a run during the weekends, hopefully!


First impressions-

1/ The Graphics are awesome! Seeing the amazing sprite works at the arcades is one thing, but being able to take your time to admire them on your own screen is something more. Also, as Nobi was saying a while back, the animation/momentum movement of characters really makes it feel like you're attacking the opponent.

2/ No story mode. Given it's a French Bread game, I was naturally assuming that it's going to have a very long story mode. The arcade mode sort of copes for it since it's got a lot of dialogues, but it's not quite the same thing.

3/ In fact, the game is pretty bland when it comes to the various gaming modes. Then again, it wasn't too hard to expect when the game's price is more than a thousand yen cheaper than normal PS3 titles.

4/ The online netcode seems to be the same as other titles from Arc System Works, and as such it's very smooth. However, that said, the input time window for combos in this game are much shorter than other titles like Persona4 and Blazblue, and I think it might hinder gameplay on long-distance connections.

Modes-
Arcade mode
VS mode / VS CPU mode
Score attack mode, Time attack mode, Survival mode
Training mode
Network mode (Ranked matches, Player matches, replay mode, rankings)
Customize mode (lets you customize icon/faceplate/title for online matches)
Gallery mode
Options (System, game, sound, display, controller setting)




This game's meter mechanics are really complicated! Fortunately the game is enjoyable even without a good understanding of it. Regardless of gameplay stuff, if you've been wanting to play a new fighter that isn't a sequel and you're a pixel lover, this game may be a good pick for you.





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"Re(1):UNIIII" , posted Fri 25 Jul 02:38post reply

quote:
Meters meters


Someone translated the meters/general mechanics tutorial for the game

I keep wanting to call the game Unilever





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"Re(2):UNIIII" , posted Fri 25 Jul 10:58post reply

Speaking of UNI, some Insider's developer details interesting stuff.






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"Re(3):UNIIII" , posted Fri 25 Jul 22:03post reply

The "Official Thread" topic on GAF is also a really good source of information for this game. I must admit that, depsite Akatsuki's cameo, this game does not appeal to me. I appreciate the effort to tone down some aspects of Melty Blood (long strings and aerial game) but the tournament videos I watched are definitely not my cup of tea.





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"Re(4):UNIIII" , posted Fri 25 Jul 23:28post reply

The official site has released tutorial videos for each single character in the game. It's in Jp though-
http://inbirth.info/topic0173.html


quote:
I appreciate the effort to tone down some aspects of Melty Blood (long strings and aerial game) but the tournament videos I watched are definitely not my cup of tea.

Just out of curiousity, was it the lengthy combos that you didn't like, or something else? The game was *horrible* when it was originally released.





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"Re(2):Prototype GGXrd" , posted Sat 26 Jul 00:28:post reply

In "ex late" update they added hitstun deterioration,

http://www.4gamer.net/games/216/G021678/20140714079/
more tech talk about ggxrd production?





[this message was edited by caiooa on Sat 26 Jul 00:35]

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"Re(4):UNIIII" , posted Sat 26 Jul 02:06:post reply

quote:
depsite Akatsuki's cameo, this game does not appeal to me.



This is possibly the most niche remark on preferences I have heard all week, and I'm in the camp that likes not only likes Blitzkampf, but keeps an older executable of the game alongside a fully up-to-date one because the AI was more fun to fight/harder/read inputs in the older version. Bravo!

EDIT: just because I want to talk about ABK

I do think Akatsuki is quite a fish out of water in UNIB gameplay-wise, though. His ability to control space is weak, his movement in spite of having a double jump is weak, and his damage output if he actually manages to pin somebody down in the corner is merely good(?). He can reflector like in ABK, but given the variety of angles that people can attack at in UNIB and the speed of the high-low offense and the ability to reverse beat into whiffed A-button normals, it sounds like a gigantic gamble to use.

I have no idea what his gameplan against Hilda should be outside of "pray for the Hilda player to mess up/have a stroke".

I was just talking with some friends about Iron Man, and now I want to call this game Unibeam.





[this message was edited by Spoon on Sat 26 Jul 02:54]

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"News on Killer Instinct's Season Two" , posted Sat 26 Jul 04:42post reply

Some of them are quite old news, actually, but still...

Two characters have already been confirmed for the Season Two of Killer Instinct: TJ Combo (apparently they're still working on his model) and Maya (who still didn't get her official trailer). Cinder seems to be teased in the end of Combo's trailer, while the developers hinted at the inclusion of Kim Wu and Riptor (who, by the way, is now a female). There will also be at least one brand new character.

KI's Season One was amazing, but the change in the development team may affect the quality of Season Two. But I'm still quite curious to see how it will turn out.





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"Re(1):News on Killer Instinct's Season Two" , posted Sat 26 Jul 11:49post reply

quote:
Cinder seems to be teased in the end of Combo's trailer, while the developers hinted at the inclusion of Kim Wu and Riptor (who, by the way, is now a female). There will also be at least one brand new character.

I'm not up on my herpetology but how are we supposed to be able to tell Riptor switched genders? It's just a big lizard. Perhaps they are going in a new direction with the character which would probably be for the best since Riptor mk.1 wasn't exactly memorable. I do like that they are getting rid of the whole time travel thing from KI2. That was a needlessly busy bit of plotting the franchise didn't need.

In other fighting game news the full trailer for Tekken 7 has been released. It's totally terrible!





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"Re(2):News on Killer Instinct's Season Two" , posted Sat 26 Jul 12:07post reply

I want to throw Harada into a volcano for that godawful panel today.

- no info/screens/anything on T7 except that trailer and "it'll be easier for people to play"
- director of the T7 CG opening was invited but had nothing to show, so he pimped his credentials for almost 10 minutes ("DO YOU LIKE APPLESEED BECAUSE I DIRECTED THAT, LOOK AT THE APPLESEED COSPLAYERS, Tekken 7 will look just as good MOAR APPLESEED")
- the infamous vaporware TxSF came up in the Q&A, Harada insists it's not canceled but "it's not the right time for it at the moment, marketing bla bla bla" (trans: SFxT bombed and Namco wants to sweep TxSF under the rug)

Note to Harada: Itagaki hasn't been relevant in a long while, stop thinking people care about your imaginary beef with him.





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"Re(3):News on Killer Instinct's Season Two" , posted Sun 27 Jul 13:55post reply

quote:
I'm not up on my herpetology but how are we supposed to be able to tell Riptor switched genders? It's just a big lizard.


Well, according to them, Riptor was always a female. That kinda explains how it laid eggs in its ending in KI1. It doesn't explain why Riptor would have a heart attack whenever it looked at Orchid showing her boobs, though.

quote:
I want to throw Harada into a volcano for that godawful panel today.

- no info/screens/anything on T7 except that trailer and "it'll be easier for people to play"
- director of the T7 CG opening was invited but had nothing to show, so he pimped his credentials for almost 10 minutes ("DO YOU LIKE APPLESEED BECAUSE I DIRECTED THAT, LOOK AT THE APPLESEED COSPLAYERS, Tekken 7 will look just as good MOAR APPLESEED")
- the infamous vaporware TxSF came up in the Q&A, Harada insists it's not canceled but "it's not the right time for it at the moment, marketing bla bla bla" (trans: SFxT bombed and Namco wants to sweep TxSF under the rug)

Note to Harada: Itagaki hasn't been relevant in a long while, stop thinking people care about your imaginary beef with him.



Very disappointing, indeed. I'll forgive Harada if Michelle appears in Tekken 7 (but since I doubt she will, Harada won't get any forgiveness for now).





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"Re(4):News on Killer Instinct's Season Two" , posted Sun 27 Jul 17:51post reply

quote:

Well, according to them, Riptor was always a female. That kinda explains how it laid eggs in its ending in KI1. It doesn't explain why Riptor would have a heart attack whenever it looked at Orchid showing her boobs, though.



What if it's an hermaphrodite reptile?





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"Re(3):Prototype GGXrd" , posted Sun 27 Jul 21:09post reply

quote:

more tech talk about ggxrd production
http://www.4gamer.net/games/216/G021678/20140714079/


trasnlation of this 2nd part
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2107579&postcount=241





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"Re(5):News on Killer Instinct's Season Two" , posted Mon 28 Jul 02:36post reply

quote:

Well, according to them, Riptor was always a female. That kinda explains how it laid eggs in its ending in KI1. It doesn't explain why Riptor would have a heart attack whenever it looked at Orchid showing her boobs, though.


What if it's an hermaphrodite reptile?



Clever girl...





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"Re(6):News on Killer Instinct's Season Two" , posted Mon 28 Jul 22:34post reply

Images for the latest batch of SF4 costumes have been released. Some are good, some are bad and a good number suffer from Falcoon levels of excessive ornamentation.

But if there's one outfit that's going to sell me on the set it's that T.Hawk get-up. From the shorts to the hat to the huge, horrible belt buckle, everything about it is perfect. T.Hawk has always been the KoF Sports Team of SF so I'm glad to see he's abandoned all pretense of respectability and embraced the fashion sense of a man who flies through the air and bonks people with his head.





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"Re(5):UNIIII" , posted Mon 28 Jul 23:54post reply

quote:

Just out of curiousity, was it the lengthy combos that you didn't like, or something else? The game was *horrible* when it was originally released.



The videos I saw were updated a few weeks ago. It's not necessarily the combo strings that bothered me (although it's not my cup of tea either) but rather the overall flow of the fights and how the characters control the space between them. The flow of the game almost falls between GG and MvC (two games I do not play).

Also, and this subconsciously connected with the spacing issues I have with the game: the animations bother me. The overall sprite animation is impact-based rather than skeleton-based, by which I mean the flow of animated frames is dictated by the final impact/effect of each move (whether it's a punch or a back-dash), with the animation process then "backtracking" all the way back from the result to the initial stance, rather than having the final impact or move being the result of an animation process taking into account the physics of the characters as described on a per-frame-basis (i.e. the character moves a certain way which provokes a certain impact). Which is something Capcom, SNK, Atlus artists did pretty often, possibly because they come from a more traditional animation background.

This is a rather common trend with games people describe as "anime fighters", and it is a model that does not click with me, although it does help improving the perception of impacting hits. I always thought ASW games suffered from this issue, aside from the obvious lack of frames in some of their sprite sheets.



Tekken fans should stop whining and think of what VF fans are going through.





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"Re(6):UNIIII" , posted Tue 29 Jul 23:02post reply

quote:
The overall sprite animation is impact-based rather than skeleton-based, by which I mean the flow of animated frames is dictated by the final impact/effect of each move (whether it's a punch or a back-dash), with the animation process then "backtracking" all the way back from the result to the initial stance, rather than having the final impact or move being the result of an animation process taking into account the physics of the characters as described on a per-frame-basis (i.e. the character moves a certain way which provokes a certain impact). Which is something Capcom, SNK, Atlus artists did pretty often, possibly because they come from a more traditional animation background.


I recall having this exact conversation with someone trying to get into Capcom a while back, though we called it the "SNK-ism" of animation. Basically, if you want to get into Capcom's design team you were required to have full understanding of human anatomy (and obviously motion, up to a certain point). This really shows even in later games such as Capcom vs SNK 2, where moves for some SNK characters like Geese Howard's counter actually looked like it followed physics and human body movement compared that of SNK's animations.

On the other hand, SNK didn't really care about that and hired artists as long as they were good at drawing, and the artists were sometimes even given orders to draw positions that didn't make sense from a realistic/physical standpoint. The animations were still somewhat physically understandable up until maybe the KOF series, where afterwards they just became.. well, really anime.

On a side note, I still remember the old story where one artist who worked for a company that did Disney licensed products was taken off position because her "Mickey was too violent", and she eventually found herself working at SNK (Eiji Shirai).





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"Re(7):UNIIII" , posted Tue 29 Jul 23:37:post reply

Yes, I agree SNK was already one step removed from Capcom. From my own experience/perception, it was especially issue on KOF. I had not noticed this kind of trouble with games such as SamSpi or RnK/AOF.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Tue 29 Jul 23:41]

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"Re(8):UNIIII" , posted Wed 30 Jul 02:03:post reply

quote:
Yes, I agree SNK was already one step removed from Capcom. From my own experience/perception, it was especially issue on KOF. I had not noticed this kind of trouble with games such as SamSpi or RnK/AOF.



I always considered KoF to be a "stray off" from what SNK usually tried to do with their games, in many senses. This is specially so with the early entries of the series; so in perspective I always thought of "sad" when every other franchise was eventually shafted in favor of that particular name (well, it's not like that market would have forgiven anything else).

With the locals, in the end we always concluded something like "it can't be helped since they are allowing you to use 3 characters in one go", aka any ubberly insulting "embrace simplicity" tone down that the characters had to go through, or any absurdely high reducal of animation frames there were victim of, was explained with that line.




Now, speaking of UNI, someone did a slow motion / close up look on some of the animations of the game here - Nico (sadly only focusing on the girls).... Some of the animations are much better than what I originally perceived them to be (like Orie's hair). I also haven't noticed that Yuzuriha conceals her sword trajectory with her jacket for some moves; I always wanted something like that to appear in fiction (a well known "dirty" technique, in some fields).

Of course there is Hilda, what initally attracted me to the game was how a character fought "sitting in a throne", giving simple, aggressive hand commands. That's exactly what I do every time I plug a console.

Pretty cool view even if you aren't a fan of the style of the game (Chaz?)






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[this message was edited by Toxico on Wed 30 Jul 02:08]

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"Re(9):UNIIII" , posted Wed 30 Jul 06:21post reply

quote:
Yes, I agree SNK was already one step removed from Capcom. From my own experience/perception, it was especially issue on KOF. I had not noticed this kind of trouble with games such as SamSpi or RnK/AOF.


I always considered KoF to be a "stray off" from what SNK usually tried to do with their games, in many senses. This is specially so with the early entries of the series; so in perspective I always thought of "sad" when every other franchise was eventually shafted in favor of that particular name (well, it's not like that market would have forgiven anything else).

With the locals, in the end we always concluded something like "it can't be helped since they are allowing you to use 3 characters in one go", aka any ubberly insulting "embrace simplicity" tone down that the characters had to go through, or any absurdely high reducal of animation frames there were victim of, was explained with that line.




Now, speaking of UNI, someone did a slow motion / close up look on some of the animations of the game here - Nico (sadly only focusing on the girls).... Some of the animations are much better than what I originally perceived them to be (like Orie's hair). I also haven't noticed that Yuzuriha conceals her sword trajectory with her jacket for some moves; I always wanted something like that to appear in fiction (a well known "dirty" technique, in some fields).

Of course there is Hilda, what init

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


My thoughts watching the video:

"Wow what a great idea! This person must really love animation. What a joy to be able to see every motion close up and slowed down like this."

"wait ... did they do this just to get panty shots??"






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"Re(7):UNIIII" , posted Wed 30 Jul 08:00post reply

quote:

I recall having this exact conversation with someone trying to get into Capcom a while back, though we called it the "SNK-ism" of animation. Basically, if you want to get into Capcom's design team you were required to have full understanding of human anatomy (and obviously motion, up to a certain point). This really shows even in later games such as Capcom vs SNK 2, where moves for some SNK characters like Geese Howard's counter actually looked like it followed physics and human body movement compared that of SNK's animations.


-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


Can you elaborate on this a bit? I've heard this from other people as well, and I totally believe it. Capcom's understanding of human anatomy is unparalleled. I once showed Urien's sprite animations to a very esteemed professor of mine at Art School. He was a real genius. A Disney Imagineer when he was a teenager, he helped design a space suit for NASA, he used to conconstruct heads from shattered bone fragments for the FBI, he now reconstructs dinosaurs. He knew the human body so well that he could build it from the bones, then the tendons, then he'd lay on the muscles. He'd even add in all the guts. Then he'd add more clay on top of that for the skin and external features. It was a totally real human figure. You couldn't see all that interior detail, but he knew it was there.

Anyway, he was really impressed with the Urien sprite. He thought it was simplified well and everything was "correct", but moreover it just looked good and moved right.

Capcom was on top of their game!

If you have any details from your friend about Capcom's art and hiring process, I'd love to hear!






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"Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Wed 30 Jul 12:25:post reply

quote:
"Wow what a great idea! This person must really love animation."
"wait ... did they do this just to get panty shots??"

I will posit that you can have both!

Edit: but wait, this looks like a lot of recent "anime fighters" with the hated iron skirt/magic skirt, most recently seen in mainline releases with Athena, too? I literally cannot imagine what demographic the flash-free girl fighting game is catering to.

Edit edit: Even in terms of artistic animation, it is weird. You have this gaping frame/jump in physics where skirts should be flying but they aren't. In a game of fluid animation, it makes things look choppy and awkward.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Wed 30 Jul 16:03]

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"Re(2):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Wed 30 Jul 16:37post reply

quote:

Edit: but wait, this looks like a lot of recent "anime fighters" with the hated iron skirt/magic skirt, most recently seen in mainline releases with Athena, too? I literally cannot imagine what demographic the flash-free girl fighting game is catering to.


I don't know the specifics, but there is a "no panties rule" on a lot of things. Swimsuits are okay. So with things like Senran Kagura, all the girls are technically wearing swimsuits instead of underwear. You'll have anime with fairly sexually explicit content in swimsuits or skimpy costumes, but have underwear censored even in non-sexual contexts. In other cases, they will simply not draw the underwear, so it looks like the girls aren't wearing anything (which is obviously much less lewd). So I don't know the who enacts this rule or what media it applies to, but it is a thing.





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"Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Wed 30 Jul 23:40:post reply

quote:
Now, speaking of UNI, someone did a slow motion / close up look on some of the animations of the game here - Nico (sadly only focusing on the girls).... Some of the animations are much better than what I originally perceived them to be (like Orie's hair).


One of the first thing I noticed after picking up the game was the amount of animation that was put into Nanase's ribbon animation. Simply fascinating.

quote:

Can you elaborate on this a bit? I've heard this from other people as well, and I totally believe it. Capcom's understanding of human anatomy is unparalleled. I once showed Urien's sprite animations to a very esteemed professor of mine at Art School. He was a real genius. A Disney Imagineer when he was a teenager, he


Did you mean the hiring process, or the way how Capcom's sprite (a la Geese Howard) is animated like a real Aikodo move?

Well to add on a bit to Capcom's hiring process, this was around 2005-2007 that my younger comrade was trying to get in (and he gave up). Back then, having an understanding of the human anatomy was one of the prequisites required in joining their design team. I'm not sure what else was required, but it was certainly a requirement quite different from other developers.

Keep in mind though, this was around the period when things weren't as 3D-intensive and 2D still had a presence. I'm hearing nowadays that things aren't as hard now, though they'll still make you draw during the exams to check how well your skills are (perspectives, etc). Unlike most Japanese companies, educational background doesn't factor in to get hired, so anyone with talent should be able to get in.





[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 31 Jul 00:32]

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"Re(2):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Thu 31 Jul 01:59post reply

quote:

One of the first thing I noticed after picking up the game was the amount of animation that was put into Nanase's ribbon animation. Simply fascinating.


Being short on funds at the moment has me feeling left out over UNIB. I'm amazed at how many people I know (at the Cafe and otherwise) who are playing it.

I know it's not a game, but this is at least a little fighting game related, right? Interesting to see this kind of cross-pollination.






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"Re(3):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Thu 31 Jul 12:15:post reply

quote:
I don't know the specifics, but there is a "no panties rule" on a lot of things. Swimsuits are okay. So with things like Senran Kagura, all the girls are technically wearing swimsuits instead of underwear. You'll have anime with fairly sexually explicit content in swimsuits or skimpy costumes, but have underwear censored even in non-sexual contexts. In other cases, they will simply not draw the underwear, so it looks like the girls aren't wearing anything (which is obviously much less lewd). So I don't know the who enacts this rule or what media it applies to, but it is a thing.

I mean...kind of? I'd love to hear the rules on this, but I have no idea how I'd start that conversation with a normal person. There are too many counter-examples for me to make sense of this, though I do indeed recall that mainline international hits like SFZero did include a tiny asterix about Sakura technically wearing bloomers with certain foreign markets in mind, though the difference is negligible and that clearly hasn't thwarted other games...hello Skull Girls, DOA...even Yatagarasu, etc. Are you sure it isn't just a moe thing? Athena aside, I've only noticed this phenomenon on these girl-only "anime fighters" that all fit a certain character design.

The TV animation move has largely been to sell more DVDs, with the censored versions airing at more accessible times and the, ah, devoted buying the home versions. All a remarkable turn-around from the 70's-90's, though I wonder how much is regulation and how much is fleecing people for home releases in a shrinking market.

Bringing this back to planet earth, I sure am about to go nuts when Guilty Gear Xrd finally becomes the first GG game I really learn to play in...Q4!





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Thu 31 Jul 12:39]

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"Re(4):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Thu 31 Jul 19:05post reply

quote:
going to learn how to play Xrd


I don't know if I can keep up with your trendiness, Maou!





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"Re(4):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Thu 31 Jul 23:42:post reply

While I haven't been able to play much UNI (hoping to do so during weekends) and the summer heat is awful, I'm really liking the game's pixel art. KOF13 had great pixels, but this game takes the spritework into another level.

However, I'm also thinking that it's pretty unfortunate that the game came out at this timing-- it'll probably end up being the most unappreciated 2D fighter of the year in Japan due to a number of reasons.


1.Initial Shipments
As far as I've heard, many stores didn't pick up too many copies of the game leave aside the initial preorders-- in fact, some national GEO chain stores sold out on midnight of launch day. The game is available for purchase on PSN so that can theoretically cope for any potential sales loss, but I really doubt that Jp consumers are that savvy on buying games since digital purchases still aren't mainstream here.

2. Two big monsters coming soon
UNI's game lifespan will undoubtedly be cut short with the release of Ultra Street Fighter 4 and P4U2 coming out in August. The hardcore players will still be around, but the it's another question about the majority of casual-level consumers. With the P4G anime currently airing on TV, people will most certainly switch to the game.

3. Heaven or Hell!
Guilty Gear Xrd is another game I'm looking forward to. After this game comes out and people get awed by its graphics, the pixel art in UNI--as much as they're awesome--will probably be depreciated.



quote:
Bringing this back to planet earth, I sure am about to go nuts when Guilty Gear Xrd finally becomes the first GG game I really learn to play in...Q4!


And continuing on the discussion of GGXrd, 4Gamer released the second half of their developer's interview. It's quite a long read but a lot of interesting tricks were used to make the game feel authentic to 2D graphics.

http://www.4gamer.net/games/216/G021678/20140714079/


Here's a quick summary on some of the interesting stuff.

1. The game's background objects uses really insane perspectives/depth to make things closeby look like they're actually far away. Things had to be done this way because if they were actually placed in a far depth, their horizontal/X-axis movement wouldn't be as dynamic as traditional 2D fighters.

2. Some cutscenes use a 2D background and they look really funky when viewed from another angle.

3. The NPCs in the background aren't rendered-- they're animations drawn over a flat polygon.

4. Detailed morphs, like Millia's hair, are not actually done by morphing the renders. They're done by swapping parts.

5. Even the best looking facial renders don't look anime-perfect when viewed from different angles. To cope for that, the developers actually bend the face to make it look just right when they go into different angles. (Example shown with Bedman)

6. Some poses, like May doing a Shoryuken towards the screen, didn't look right by just tweaking the camera angle and perspective (for example, her face would end up looking way smaller than her fist). In order to achieve the right anime visual, they had to grow her arms longer for that particular shot. It wasn't a function available by default on the Unreal Engine 3 (it could expand things evenly in the X&Y&Z axis but couldn't do so for just one axis), so the engine was modded for this purpose.

7. Special effects like the puff of smoke on a jump, were rendered frame-by-frame by hand. Sort of like drawing each individual sprite. Morphing just didn't give it the authentic 2D look.

8. The game runs in 60fps, but the character animations are purposely restricted to 15fps to give them an anime-look.

9. Graphical collisions were an issue when characters overlapped. In order to solve it, one character gets placed a little behind the other in the Z-axis.

10. The text written on the characters (like Sol's "Free" and "Rock You") get re-pasted when the character flips direction from 1P side to 2P. Otherwise the words would look mirrored.





[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 1 Aug 01:48]

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"Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Fri 1 Aug 01:58post reply

quote:

My thoughts watching the video:

"Wow what a great idea! This person must really love animation. What a joy to be able to see every motion close up and slowed down like this."

"wait ... did they do this just to get panty shots??"


Yeah, in fact there are many were that last bit feeling simply oozes through the work, Like the guy that captured the motions for Dragon's Crown (great watch as well) (Oh, and he did 2 of the guys as well).

Since I don't have many games that I would like to have, I have searched for "animation analysis" here and there, figuring that there it should be many that liked both, animation and games; I remember that my first extensive search ended up as something like....

KoF XIII -> close up animations for Mai.
CvS2 -> someone made an animation video for the dream cast version, where every girl was editted to skin color and recorded on extreme close up style
Tekken -> King throws and every multi-part throws on the female cast.
Dark Stalker -> Midnight bliss close up & slowmo.

...... And, there it were many others; the only one that I enjoyed greatly was someone coloring Raiden as a naked perv and busting heads with him (gender equality at it's best!).






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"Re(2):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Fri 1 Aug 03:11post reply

quote:


Yeah, in fact there are many were that last bit feeling simply oozes through the work, Like the guy that captured the motions for Dragon's Crown (great watch as well) (Oh, and he did 2 of the guys as well).




Wow this is precisely the game I hoped would get this treatment! Thanks for the link!

Minor complaint, I wish there were a video this detailed for all the monsters in the game. I'd love an animated Beastiary. I can't even find gifs of the monsters on Tumblr. Where my monster Otaku at?

I might have to make these gifs myself ... hmmmmm ...






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"Re(2):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Fri 1 Aug 17:00post reply

quote:

Yeah, in fact there are many were that last bit feeling simply oozes through the work, Like the guy that captured the motions for Dragon's Crown (great watch as well) (Oh, and he did 2 of the guys as well).

Since I don't have many games that I would like to have, I have searched for "animation analysis" here and there, figuring that there it should be many that liked both, animation and games; I remember that my first extensive search ended up as something like....

KoF XIII -> close up animations for Mai.
CvS2 -> someone made an animation video for the dream cast version, where every girl was editted to skin color and recorded on extreme close up style
Tekken -> King throws and every multi-part throws on the female cast.
Dark Stalker -> Midnight bliss close up & slowmo.

...... And, there it were many others; the only one that I enjoyed greatly was someone coloring Raiden as a naked perv and busting heads with him (gender equality at it's best!).



It reminds me of this Skullgirls slowmo animation videos for Peacock - the same guy also made some for quite a few other characters, and at least one focusing on panties and chests...





...!!

nobinobita
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"Re(2):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sat 2 Aug 08:44post reply

quote:
"Wow what a great idea! This person must really love animation."
"wait ... did they do this just to get panty shots??"
I will posit that you can have both!

Edit: but wait, this looks like a lot of recent "anime fighters" with the hated iron skirt/magic skirt, most recently seen in mainline releases with Athena, too? I literally cannot imagine what demographic the flash-free girl fighting game is catering to.

Edit edit: Even in terms of artistic animation, it is weird. You have this gaping frame/jump in physics where skirts should be flying but they aren't. In a game of fluid animation, it makes things look choppy and awkward.



I always thought the Iron Skirt was a stylistic thing. It kind of makes the character more alluring if you're of a certain mindset. To a porn addled brain, less can be more.

I spent a good chunk of time playing UNIB last night. It's really fun! I absolutely cannot speak to high level play, but to a casual player like me it was very easy to pick up and enjoy. It's very beginner friendly. At least as beginner friendly as the Persona fighting game and much friendlier than Blazblue or Guilty Gear. All the characters have the same move inputs for specials more or less, but they all still feel very different.

At first I just admired the animation, but was only drawn into a few characters (Merkava is so cool!). But after actually playing the game for a few hours there isn't a single character I dislike. They're all really well done and they feel very distinct in both characterization and gameplay.

Highly recommended!






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"Re(3):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sat 2 Aug 09:06post reply

quote:
I don't know if I can keep up with your trendiness, Maou!
Better watch it, Spoon, last year I played a game made that very same year, and this year looks like a similar trend! Soon it will be just you playing Last Window all by yourself...! Just kidding. I'm busy playing SFC games in the meantime. I really am stoked about GG though--thanks, Prof!





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"Re(3):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sat 2 Aug 11:56:post reply

quote:


UNIB easy to play




I'm still trying to figure out just which 1v1 2D fighter it was that featured both light/medium/heavy attacks as well as an easy-mode combo that is done just by pounding the light attack button as a universal mechanic (as opposed to just getting rapid-fire jabs like in most Capcom/SNK fighters).

The new Jojo fighting game has it (and will even burn a super meter as a combo ender if you have it!), P4A had it before that, Akatsuki Blitzkampf Ausf Ausche (sp?) had it before that... and I just remembered, later revisions of Melty Blood had 5A 6AA as a universal combo for all characters using the Half Moon groove.

Is there a fighting game mechanic forensic history expert here?





[this message was edited by Spoon on Sat 2 Aug 13:16]

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"Re(4):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sat 2 Aug 23:29post reply

About the discussion of unib beeing easy to play...i think it depends in the background of the person with fgs. Comparing it to melty blood.

1-Melty gives too much freedom in air movement options. You can use double jump, super jump, air dash (foward or backward) in any kind of combination (diferent from guilty gear). Like, super jump over the oponent, air backdash to uncross, then use neutral double jump to cross again (you can control the falling arc of the neutral jumps), the use air dodge to change the direction one more time. Not only unib have less air movement options, but more things are air unblockable.

2-While unib retained melty reverse chains (going from weaker attacks to stronger), it's much less flexible than in mb. In mb the window is bigger, what means you can chain normals super early or super late. So it's very easy to create frame traps. Almost every character having charged/half charged/ command normals with clash/super armor/guard point in mb helps even more.

3-Those 2 things helps mb mantaining momentum (okizeme or pressure)for much longer time compared to unib. Kinda things takes longer to return to neutral. To compensate for this, mb gives a wide array of defensive options. EX shield, Shield, dodge, air dodge, ex guard, alpha counter, heat activation, etc. Unib simplify this a lot with a simple idea: blocking gives grd, so eventually you will get grd vorpal. 10% + damange, alpha counter consuming just grd and chain shift (the roman cancel).

I think unib actually ended up beeing very close to real bout fatal fury/last blade, but with a little more air movement options, weaker defensive mechanics (no deflect/break shots) and a modern chain system. If you come to unib from a snk background, you probably will be at home. If you come from a sf background, you probably still will be more confortable at unib than to say, at marvel.

But it go both ways. People coming from marvel or guilty gear may not be very confortable with unib. Even melty players would somewhat fall in this category too, but things are more ambiguous as they are more at easy with the imput buffer system than any other group and want to suport the developers no matter what happens.





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"Re(5):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sun 3 Aug 03:32post reply

quote:
UNIB mechanical discussion


One of my friends who is a strong Guilty Gear player described it like this:
UNIB taking away airblocking forces you to play a ground game because anti-air hits can be converted into substantial combo damage. Blocking gives you a lot of GRD, and winning the GRD tug of war is huge. Air dashing costs super meter, so successful blocking is hugely rewarding: it allows you to sap your opponent's super meter, and it gives you an advantage in owning the GRD which tilts momentum hugely in your favor. There is also no guard crush or guard balance so common in anime air dash fighting games.

For lower level players who are used to playing "anime fighters", this is strange: holding up-back is not a universal defensive option, trying to playing footsies on the ground is anathema to the rushdown style they are accustomed to, and choosing to patiently block giving the defender an advantage is hard to wrap the mind around. Just block. There are no game mechanics that will conspire to force you to press buttons like guard crush. Just block.

However, a negative consequence of the lack of air blocking together with the confirmable damage off of attacks results in all 3 characters with big normals (Waldstein, Gordeau, Merkava) being 3 of the top characters in the game. On top of that, Waldstein's huge and dominating normals give him overwhelming abare (ability to hit buttons and fight back while in frame disadvantage). There's more to I can conjecture, but I haven't gotten my hands on the game yet!

(Random thought: displaying a tug of war gauge in the bottom center of the screen comes from Gleam of Force, except in that game the Measure gauge was meant to display the handicap damage ratio between the two players?)





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"Re(6):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sun 3 Aug 06:56post reply

quote:
UNIB mechanical discussion//

Random thought: displaying a tug of war gauge in the bottom center of the screen comes from Gleam of Force, except in that game the Measure gauge was meant to display the handicap damage ratio between the two players?




Really efficient and interesting explanation of UNIB, so thanks for that!

However I just watched a Gleam of Force video and it's a bit tough to grasp the mechanics of the Measure Gauge.

Could you explain this one a bit? I'm a big fan of systems and gauges in general. I'm not necessarily an advocate of super-complicated systems, but it's always interesting to learn about them.





/ / /

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"Re(6):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sun 3 Aug 07:35post reply

quote:
UNIB mechanical discussion


Since "ex late" (version 2.0, september 2013) "assault"...the hyper hop/air dash foward don't cost meter anymore. But if the opponent block, you are still giving them grd.

But about defense, you are spot on. There's the grd thing filling up, but there's more. Like in melty (and DFC), you can't be killed by chip damange. The last hit have to connect. Other thing is you actually stay in frame advatage after sucessfuly teching a throw.

About chars with big normals domination, the diagram of data collected from the arcades shows they are much closer to other characters than people think. It may be that people don't know how to fight against them, walldenstein in special.

His claw swings destroys projectyles, and he even have a projectyles (B+C). So for sure he's intimidating for low level players if they stay too fixeted in "if I stay in the ground he can use the 360, if I jump his air unblockable normal will hit me."

But his normals takes longer to activate (to compensate the reach), and his invecible reversals consumes meter (360°C and 623C). To complete it, the 360 do just around 2,3k of damange, in a game were meterless combos do around 3,5k. If i would compare him to a melty character, it would be Nero Chaos.





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"Re(7):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sun 3 Aug 10:14:post reply

quote:


Could you explain this one a bit? I'm a big fan of systems and gauges in general. I'm not necessarily an advocate of super-complicated systems, but it's always interesting to learn about them.



The Measure gauge in the middle actually depicts 3 different things simultaneously, and that's why it's so confusing. Each of them might make sense alone, but when crunched together you think that they mean something they don't.

The three pieces of information are as follows:
- the "balance" of the match
- the positions of the two players in the arena
- the distance between the two players

The "balance" of the match is something which I never totally figured out the numbers for, because GoF comes with a very hard damage handicap that happens simply based on life gauge difference. The "balance" is shifted mostly by whoever is successful with offensive actions: successfully triggering Infight and landing attacks will shift it in the favor of the player doing that. I don't recall offhand whether or not it affects damage scaling, and whether or not that was changed in later versions. So a player that is getting walloped will likely see the gauge shifted 99-1 in favor of the opponent, but a successful counterhit heavy attack can completely rocket the gauge in the reverse direction. I like to think that it is significant in affecting decisions of who is the winner should the round end by the timer hitting 0, but I don't know the way the numbers actually work myself. (Did I just completely contradict what I wrote in my previous post? Yes. Whoops!)

The two arrows indicate the player positions, the the length of the entire bar indicating the length of the arena.

The "Measure" and the number beside it is a numerical indicator of how far apart the two characters are.





[this message was edited by Spoon on Sun 3 Aug 10:20]

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"Re(8):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Fri 8 Aug 21:21post reply

Under night etc. etc. will be ported in Europe in 2015 by NISA!





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"Re(9):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Thu 14 Aug 23:18post reply

This video of the ultras in SF4 with the camera angles turned off amused me. First, I didn't realize just how tall the stages are in that game. Second, it's interesting to see that almost all the ultras in vanilla SF4 played out straight didn't use any camera cuts. I wonder if having an option to turn off the cinematic camera was considered at an early stage. Or perhaps how the camera was going to be used in SF4 hadn't been decided when those first ultras were being animated. Either way, it's interesting to see how the animation changed as the game progressed.





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"Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Fri 15 Aug 06:12post reply

Pretty impressive website compiling the hitboxes of UNIEL.





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nobinobita
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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Fri 15 Aug 08:23post reply

quote:
Pretty impressive website compiling the hitboxes of UNIEL.



Oooooo I was just about to post this!

Someone else just pointed out to me that many of the actions don't even have an impact frame!

Example

Just a startup and end (with a smear/blur in between). This gives you the sense of slashing THROUGH the opponent, instead of freezing on the impact and making it feel sticky like most other anime type fighters.






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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Fri 15 Aug 14:33post reply

quote:
Pretty impressive website compiling the hitboxes of UNIEL.


Oooooo I was just about to post this!

Someone else just pointed out to me that many of the actions don't even have an impact frame!

Example

Just a startup and end (with a smear/blur in between). This gives you the sense of slashing THROUGH the opponent, instead of freezing on the impact and making it feel sticky like most other anime type fighters.



So... you like it like that?





/ / /

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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sat 16 Aug 20:21post reply

Steam has a Japanese indie games sale running until the end of the weekend for Comiket, which includes Vanguard Princess at a really nice price point.

By the way, what happened to this guy/crew? Former SNK staff, no? Is he/they involved in any recent fighting game?





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"Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sun 17 Aug 02:49post reply

quote:
Steam has a Japanese indie games sale running until the end of the weekend for Comiket, which includes Vanguard Princess at a really nice price point.

By the way, what happened to this guy/crew? Former SNK staff, no? Is he/they involved in any recent fighting game?



The people who play VP still wonder this, because literally years ago he teased a new character and update, and has been mum about it since. The Steam version has some balance changes from the otherwise latest version, and I don't know if they were generally considered positive or not.

It's a beautiful game that has an interesting take on combos (many characters couldn't cancel most normals in earlier versions, so any combo that was more than just "jumping move -> grounded move" required a setup or use your assist!), so I really do wish that it does better.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Sun 17 Aug 04:16post reply

Maybe Prof has better intel but if I understand the blog scuttlebutt I found correctly, his family is based near Fukushima and the Tsunami forced him to go AWOL from daily otaku-related activities in order to address the issues back home? Don't quote me yet and wait for better assessment/translation/info but that seems to be what I get from a quick search.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Mon 18 Aug 11:01:post reply

quote:
Maybe Prof has better intel but if I understand the blog scuttlebutt I found correctly, his family is based near Fukushima and the Tsunami forced him to go AWOL from daily otaku-related activities in order to address the issues back home? Don't quote me yet and wait for better assessment/translation/info but that seems to be what I get from a quick search.



His family is in Fukushima and he was worried of the quake's aftermath because it's an old house. However, I'm not sure if it directly effected him and his doujin activities. He seemed to be still living in Tokyo a few months after it happened.

Amusingly, there was a rumor that he halted the project and went into selling hentai doujin CGs (Sample 1 / Sample 2), but I'm pretty sure it's a different artist imitating his style (the details on the characters like their hands and fingers are completely different).

As of right now, nobody knows what he's doing.





[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 18 Aug 11:03]

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"Re(8):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Fri 22 Aug 06:18:post reply

We need a new thread.


But in the meantime, here's an Ehrgeiz video.





[this message was edited by Spoon on Fri 22 Aug 06:19]

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"Re(9):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Fri 22 Aug 12:09post reply

quote:
We need a new thread.


But in the meantime, here's an Ehrgeiz video.



GOD BLESS THE RING.

Man, I recall when that game was the shit! Thanks for the nostalgia hit!






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"Re(9):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Mon 25 Aug 01:52post reply

Several old Capcom fighters are getting re-released with Nescia support. This is only of interest to a handful of crusty old Tokyo arcade gamers but it's something.

quote:
Pretty impressive website compiling the hitboxes of UNIEL.


ArcSys to fans: Drop dead. There are plenty of other sites that discuss the engines of fighting games so was this site targeted?

quote:
We need a new thread.


But in the meantime, here's an Ehrgeiz video.


I always wondered if Ergheiz would have found it's way if it hadn't become so tied in the public's mind with its FFVII guest stars. All I can remember about the game was that everyone ran around in circles trying to sweep each other and it's the only fighter I can think of that culminates with you punching a dog unconscious. Ergheiz was a weird game.





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"Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Mon 25 Aug 03:38post reply

quote:

Pretty impressive website compiling the hitboxes of UNIEL.

ArcSys to fans: Drop dead. There are plenty of other sites that discuss the engines of fighting games so was this site targeted?




My guess is because it contains source-quality sprite rips as well as hitbox data. Other sites which provide frame data usually don't have either.





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"Persona 4U2 Alt Shadow cover" , posted Tue 26 Aug 02:24:post reply

quote:
My guess is because it contains source-quality sprite rips as well as hitbox data. Other sites which provide frame data usually don't have either.


One side of me says it was handled as expected, another side says pity, because it would've been nice art reference.


Talk about art,
http://img.p-ch.jp/libimg/0609f5711a42f9904d5c897417a3ebc8e6d0.png





[this message was edited by Professor on Tue 26 Aug 02:25]

Just a Person
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"Re(1):Persona 4U2 Alt Shadow cover" , posted Tue 26 Aug 03:24post reply

quote:

Talk about art,
http://img.p-ch.jp/libimg/0609f5711a42f9904d5c897417a3ebc8e6d0.png



Cool! But weren't Adachi, Elizabeth, Margaret and Marie supposed NOT to have shadow selves? Labrys and Sho are understandable since they have their "final boss" variants (plus, regular Labrys also has her shadow self).

Questions aside, I really like this cover.





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"Re(2):Persona 4U2 Alt Shadow cover" , posted Tue 26 Aug 03:27post reply

quote:

Elizabeth, Margaret and Marie supposed NOT to have shadow selves?



shadow Igor incoming





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"Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):UNIIII" , posted Tue 26 Aug 05:19post reply

quote:


Man, I recall when that game was the shit! Thanks for the nostalgia hit!



Because the fans clearly demanded it, here is nearly 1.5 hours of Sasuke vs. Cloud

seriously what





chazumaru
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"POKKEN" , posted Tue 26 Aug 22:56post reply

Announcement.

My new #1 most anticipated moment of 2015 is seeing Pokémon fans at Evo.
And they thought Smash fans were insane...





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"Re(1):POKKEN" , posted Wed 27 Aug 00:56post reply

Wow, kind of impressed by the Ergheiz videos. The game is better than I gave it credit for. If it had been more popular and they developed it further, I wonder if it would've turned out nice.
quote:
Announcement.

My new #1 most anticipated moment of 2015 is seeing Pokémon fans at Evo.
And they thought Smash fans were insane...


I'm surprised that it's an arcade game! I'm getting a very ugly image of (possibly gross) adult fighting game super fans beating poor little children and hogging the machines.





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"Re(2):POKKEN" , posted Wed 27 Aug 02:49post reply

Who is Pokken (ugh, what a name) aimed at? Pokémon fans are legion but is this the type of combat they want the characters to engage in? Outside of fighting game circles does anyone know or care who people like Katsuhiro Harada are? I appreciate that Nintendo is willing to branch out into new genres and is teaming up with people who already have a proven track record with those types of games. Still, if the early sales on Hyrule Warriors are anything to go by I hope they aren't going to end up with nothing more than expensive curios.





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"Re(3):POKKEN" , posted Wed 27 Aug 03:12:post reply

quote:
Who is Pokken (ugh, what a name) aimed at?


Mainly adult Pokémon fans, according to the video I shared. Although it makes sense for them to focus more on adult users for the arcade release. I guess everyone gave up having kids back in the arcades now.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Wed 27 Aug 03:14]

Lord SNK
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"Re(3):POKKEN" , posted Wed 27 Aug 03:18post reply

According to Siliconera Harada said this:

quote:

According to Harada, the game doesn’t use Tekken’s engine, and is something completely new. It won’t focus as much on the fighting game genre’s technical aspects, and will be mainly about the action.
Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2014/08/26/pokkn-tournament-will-focus-action-aspect-fighting-games/#sfL9y0rwkgFT5KCf.99



So this will not be a fighting game but a button smasher fireworks demo?





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"Re(3):POKKEN" , posted Wed 27 Aug 03:43post reply

quote:
Who is Pokken (ugh, what a name) aimed at? Pokémon fans are legion but is this the type of combat they want the characters to engage in? Outside of fighting game circles does anyone know or care who people like Katsuhiro Harada are? I appreciate that Nintendo is willing to branch out into new genres and is teaming up with people who already have a proven track record with those types of games. Still, if the early sales on Hyrule Warriors are anything to go by I hope they aren't going to end up with nothing more than expensive curios.



Oof, this just strikes me as more of a good idea for a fan-made game than anything else (as I'm sure it's a concept that's launched a thousand shitty Mugen games), but what do I know?






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"Re(4):POKKEN" , posted Wed 27 Aug 03:49post reply

quote:
Who is Pokken (ugh, what a name) aimed at? Pokémon fans are legion but is this the type of combat they want the characters to engage in? Outside of fighting game circles does anyone know or care who people like Katsuhiro Harada are? I appreciate that Nintendo is willing to branch out into new genres and is teaming up with people who already have a proven track record with those types of games. Still, if the early sales on Hyrule Warriors are anything to go by I hope they aren't going to end up with nothing more than expensive curios.


Oof, this just strikes me as more of a good idea for a fan-made game than anything else (as I'm sure it's a concept that's launched a thousand shitty Mugen games), but what do I know?



I wonder if this was originally part of the plan when Nintendo began their collaboration with bamco on Smash Bros.





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"Re(5):POKKEN" , posted Thu 28 Aug 03:14post reply

I'm interested in seeing how this POKKEN develops. It seems Katsuhiro Harada want's to visit the series "roots" rather than "dumming it down" as many people would assume:
quote:

Tekken is designed to let players use tactics while freely controlling their characters to the fullest, and it’s also the title that has built the foundations of our company’s character action and animation system.

The feeling of unity when moving characters, the excitement of landing an attack, and the pain when taking a hit. Those are the feelings that have been cultivated in the knowhow of what we can call ‘Tekkenism,’ which will be well and alive in the upcoming title’s Pokémon action.

The competitive fighting game genre has acuminated into what many people might see as a hardcore way of playing, but originally, it was a genre that was enjoyed in a wider range.

This time, with Pokkén Tournament, rather than it being a competitive fighter, it is a competitive action game, as we’re bringing it back to the roots of action and competitive games, by developing it into something that can be ‘enjoyed in a wider range’.






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"Re(6):POKKEN (+ more on P4A:U)" , posted Thu 28 Aug 09:30post reply

Pokkén seems weird, but it may turn out to be a fun game. I wonder, though, why Bandai Namco never attempted to do something similar with the Digimon franchise, since it is part of their franchises (the Battle Arena games do not count, they feel more like a poor Smash Bros. attempt).

Oh well, by the way, the console trailer for Persona 4 Arena Ultimax is great!





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"DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO)" , posted Sun 31 Aug 21:24post reply

Dead or Alive 5 Last Stand (for PS4/XBO) has been announced today. Why?

No idea if it is shown at the Sony conference tomorrow but it will be released in Spring 2015. Interesting that the DOA series arrive on PS4/XBO before Tekken and VF. I guess this is the advantage on not having to deal with arcade division vs console division politics. It was expected that Team Ninja would soon reveal their first game for PS4/XBO, but I was rather hoping for either a new action game or a beach volley sequel taking all the physics/sweat/mud improvements of DAO5 into account. Why?





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"Re(1):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO)" , posted Mon 1 Sep 01:06post reply

quote:
Dead or Alive 5 Last Stand (for PS4/XBO) has been announced today. Why?


They should just release a Capcom vs Koei Tecmo





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"Re(1):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO)" , posted Mon 1 Sep 05:17post reply

quote:
Dead or Alive 5 Last Stand (for PS4/XBO) has been announced today. Why?

Instead of multi-gen releases most games now seem to be going the GTA route of releasing a game on an older generation system and then putting out the "remastered" version on the new systems. I'm not certain what I think about that. Still, if this version of DoA features the all the DLC it might be a bargain even if you have to buy a new console to play it.





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"Re(1):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO)" , posted Mon 1 Sep 06:57post reply

quote:
Dead or Alive 5 Last Stand (for PS4/XBO) has been announced today. Why?


I don't have anything against DOA5 and I'm very pleased that they've been able to take it this far, but if this is a packaged release, I question the logic. The idea must be that the game has done well as a free to play...enough that they're keeping it alive. But if they make the new one a disc release and if it doesn't have cross generation online multiplayer, then I don't know what the hell they're thinking. If it is a standalone, maybe they can do something more exciting with it, because the way the renders are now, I don't know how much the game would benefit from a higher resolution/frame rate.





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chazumaru
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"Re(2):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO/PS3/360)" , posted Mon 1 Sep 22:10post reply

Actually, I just found out the game is also coming for PS3 and 360, as contractually required for any third party PS4 game coming from Japan. Then, let's hope this means all current DLC costumes will be included in Last Stand pro bono, for some weird, financially unsound, consumer-friendly reason.





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Just a Person
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"Re(1):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO)" , posted Mon 1 Sep 22:47post reply

quote:
No idea if it is shown at the Sony conference tomorrow but it will be released in Spring 2015. Interesting that the DOA series arrive on PS4/XBO before Tekken and VF.



To be fair, Tekken is about to get a real new game on PS4/XBO, while this is just a re-release of DOA5.

Nevertheless, it's good news. DOA5 is a fun game, this strategy may allow more people to get to know it, and it should be fun to see how improved (or not) this game will look like in the current platforms. Maybe it will even have some new characters (who maybe won't be more clones of Kasumi).





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"Re(2):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO/PS3/360)" , posted Mon 1 Sep 23:47post reply

quote:
Tekken is about to get a real new game on PS4/XBO

Wait a minute, that doesn't sound right. Tekken 6 took two years and a revision in the Arcades to come to consoles, and PS4 will probably not have a decent user base in Japan until Christmas 2015 at best. I always found your inconspicuous user name very suspicious, as well... Are you secretly from 2016? Should I be scared of Putin yet or did they take a break once they reached Belgium? Remember that good advice!


quote:
Maybe it will even have some new characters (who maybe won't be more clones of Kasumi).

You make me realize that Kasumi and Sub-Zero have a lot more in common that one would think at a first glance.





Même Narumi est épatée !

Just a Person
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"Re(3):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO/PS3/360)" , posted Tue 2 Sep 06:20post reply

quote:

Wait a minute, that doesn't sound right. Tekken 6 took two years and a revision in the Arcades to come to consoles, and PS4 will probably not have a decent user base in Japan until Christmas 2015 at best.



You're right, I forgot the Tekken games take a good time from the Arcades to the consoles. Tekken 7 will likely reach the PS4/XBO before an eventual DOA6 does, though (in turn, DOA6 has good chances of being released before VF6).

Speaking of DOA, apparently there will be a stage with DOA1 Danger Zones. It looks interesting.





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chazumaru
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"Re(4):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO/PS3/360)" , posted Tue 2 Sep 07:41post reply

Nice throwback! I'll need more (let's say Shun Di and Aoi) to be fully convinced but at least they are trying to bring some other features. I am pretty sure that was Kasumi's stage (inspired by the famous elevator scene from Akira) in the trailer. I wonder if other classic stages will make an appearance in this game.





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"Re(4):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO/PS3/360)" , posted Tue 2 Sep 22:06post reply

A new GGXrd character has popped up. Hopefully she will get an intro video soon.

quote:
Speaking of DOA, apparently there will be a stage with DOA1 Danger Zones. It looks interesting.


I wonder what the Senran Kagura crossover is all about? It's probably just more costumes but since DoA5 already has half the cast of VF loitering in the roster anything is possible.





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"Re(5):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO/PS3/360)" , posted Wed 3 Sep 03:15post reply

Yoshinori Ono is working on a new Fighting game
https://twitter.com/Yoshi_OnoChin/status/506501145045381120





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"GGXrd" , posted Thu 4 Sep 08:12post reply

quote:
A new GGXrd character has popped up. Hopefully she will get an intro video soon.



Man, if someone had the scans...
http://i.imgur.com/LGcu4R6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ityafrg.jpg

... Maybe they could figure out if her name is supposed to be written Elfert (Trèfle backwards) and what's her name's connection with Guns & Roses. Also they'd see a lot of stuff about the new character and the consumer version, I guess.





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"Re(1):GGXrd" , posted Fri 5 Sep 04:41post reply

quote:
A new GGXrd character has popped up. Hopefully she will get an intro video soon.


Man, if someone had the scans...
http://i.imgur.com/LGcu4R6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ityafrg.jpg

... Maybe they could figure out if her name is supposed to be written Elfert (Trèfle backwards) and what's her name's connection with Guns & Roses. Also they'd see a lot of stuff about the new character and the consumer version, I guess.



Evidently it's supposed to be Elphelt?





chazumaru
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"Re(2):GGXrd" , posted Fri 5 Sep 05:36:post reply

Ah... Obviously...

By the way, what should have been quite literally the highlight of my previous post is that the scan confirms Dizzy as Sin's mother! I am not the biggest ASW fan so I could have missed an earlier confession but I thought it would forever remain a running gag that their connection would never be openly acknowledged by Arc System Works.

SRK has a good recap of the new info.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Fri 5 Sep 05:39]

Ishmael
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"Re(6):DOA5: Last Stand (PS4/XBO/PS3/360)" , posted Fri 5 Sep 06:28post reply

quote:
Yoshinori Ono is working on a new Fighting game
https://twitter.com/Yoshi_OnoChin/status/506501145045381120


Seeing as how all game companies are nervous about trying anything too risky with the current gen systems I think I can guess what this latest collaboration with Dimps will produce.

Darkstalkers Are Not Dead

quote:
Elphelt


Is that Cheer & Fire?

Darkstalkers Are Not Dead





nobinobita
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"Re(3):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Fri 5 Sep 07:20:post reply

quote:
Ah... Obviously...

By the way, what should have been quite literally the highlight of my previous post is that the scan confirms Dizzy as Sin's mother! I am not the biggest ASW fan so I could have missed an earlier confession but I thought it would forever remain a running gag that their connection would never be openly acknowledged by Arc System Works.

SRK has a good recap of the new info.



Her birthday is Dec 25th and she has a lot of cake related attacks. I wonder ...

So my 30-something Japanese friends tell me that in Japan they have a term called "Christmas Cake." It's a metaphor for the perfect age for a woman to marry (25). The idea is that it's ideal to eat your Christmas cake on the day of Christmas (the 25th/age of 25). If you eat it too early, you're going too fast (getting married at 18 is like being so impatient you eat your cake a week early). The bigger question is, how many days after Xmas can you wait to eat your cake? A day or two, of course. No worries! But after 5 days (when you enter your 30s) maybe you start to question things.

I wonder if this love starved, marriage obsessed moe waifu is a parody of this idea.

Also, LOL at the comments section where people are like "WTF is this dating website profile bullshit, they're ruining fighting games!" Do you even fighting games bro?






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[this message was edited by nobinobita on Fri 5 Sep 07:23]

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"Re(4):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Fri 5 Sep 08:05:post reply

quote:
Darkstalkers Are Not Dead

quote:
have had a term called "Christmas Cake." It's a metaphor for the perfect age for a woman to marry (25). The idea is that it's ideal to eat your Christmas cake on the day of Christmas (the 25th/age of 25).
Haha, I love dead expressions a lot (they are so..."groovy!") and that one is dead as a doornail---a fairly telling sign of socio-demographic change. Your friends are taking you on a marvelous Kimagure Orange Road-esque timewarp, to tie it into the other thread! Today, we live in a world where batsu-ichi (to tie it into games and the XBoxOne = X-1) can be promoted as positive~





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 5 Sep 08:08]

nobinobita
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"Re(5):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Fri 5 Sep 08:51post reply

quote:
Darkstalkers Are Not Dead
have had a term called "Christmas Cake." It's a metaphor for the perfect age for a woman to marry (25). The idea is that it's ideal to eat your Christmas cake on the day of Christmas (the 25th/age of 25). Haha, I love dead expressions a lot (they are so..."groovy!") and that one is dead as a doornail---a fairly telling sign of socio-demographic change. Your friends are taking you on a marvelous Kimagure Orange Road-esque timewarp, to tie it into the other thread! Today, we live in a world where batsu-ichi (to tie it into games and the XBoxOne = X-1) can be promoted as positive~



Like i said, thirty somethings haha. They did grow up on Kimagure Orange road!






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"Re(6):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Fri 5 Sep 18:17post reply

Sega now has even more in common with SNKP, since they're also sueing over unauthorized depiction of their game in High Score Girl






...!!

Professor
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"Re(7):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Fri 5 Sep 20:03post reply

quote:
Sega now has even more in common with SNKP, since they're also sueing over unauthorized depiction of their game in High Score Girl




Sega isn't sueing over the manga. They were just unhappy that Square Enix started using Virtua Fighter in the manga before asking for permission. They warned SquEnix about it but granted future permission because it'd be good PR. That all happened 2 years ago.





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"Re(8):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Fri 5 Sep 20:22post reply

quote:
Sega now has even more in common with SNKP, since they're also sueing over unauthorized depiction of their game in High Score Girl



Sega isn't sueing over the manga. They were just unhappy that Square Enix started using Virtua Fighter in the manga before asking for permission. They warned SquEnix about it but granted future permission because it'd be good PR. That all happened 2 years ago.



Thanks for the clarification - my legalese is clearly lacking.





...!!

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"Re(8):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Tue 9 Sep 10:28post reply

Speaking of Virtua Fighter, here is the best English-language article about Fighting Vipers 2 you'll probably find anywhere.

SRK actually with a decent article? NO WAY!





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"Re(9):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Wed 10 Sep 00:51post reply

The portable version of Smash will not be compatible with the 3DS Pro but will be compatible with the second controller stick on the new 3DS. Funny how that worked out.





Ishmael
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"Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Sun 21 Sep 05:16post reply

Capcom fiddles with the dip switches in SF4. This mode is free and just for fun so I'm certain there are people out there who are completely pissed off about it.

A new Tekken character has been announced. I like her sunglasses.





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"Re(2):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Tue 23 Sep 02:08post reply

quote:
Capcom fiddles with the dip switches in SF4. This mode is free and just for fun so I'm certain there are people out there who are completely pissed off about it.


Ah, just like with everything. It's why we can't have nice things.

My first thought was that they should have called it 'Rainbow Edition'. I'm all for it! It should lead to some hilarity, I'm sure!






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HokutoAndy
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"Re(3):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Wed 24 Sep 12:02post reply

quote:
Capcom fiddles with the dip switches in SF4. This mode is free and just for fun so I'm certain there are people out there who are completely pissed off about it.




They missed out on a golden opportunity to make a non-stretchy Dhalsim, a stretchy Dan, and a cyclonic Zangief with MvC Storm's moveset dangit!





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"Re(4):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Wed 24 Sep 17:40post reply

quote:
Capcom fiddles with the dip switches in SF4. This mode is free and just for fun so I'm certain there are people out there who are completely pissed off about it.



They missed out on a golden opportunity to make a non-stretchy Dhalsim, a stretchy Dan, and a cyclonic Zangief with MvC Storm's moveset dangit!



The only acceptable way to handle Dan in this is to make play like an actual Kyokugenryuu character, full screen projectiles and the works - Ryo was all wrong in CvS, might as well get it right here.





...!!

Spoon
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"Re(5):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Thu 25 Sep 04:38post reply

I think of it more like HF than Rainbow... actually, if anything these make me think of the EX mode characters in Guilty Gear. The Rainbow characters were just insane caricatures of how they normally play, or crazy riffs on how to solve issues of the character (for normally non-projectile characters, this usually meant some special move of theirs would pop out a hadoken).

The funny thing about EX mode characters in Guilty Gear is that there are cases where some of their moves get rolled into later official versions of the character.





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"Re(6):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Tue 30 Sep 12:00post reply

Harada claims the newest Tekken character is built with beginner players in mind. But do new players want a simple character? There are times it seems newer players can adapt to a game far more quickly than others because they are approaching the game with a fresh outlook, unlike veteran players who have trivia from a dozen other fighters lodged in their brains. Game designers need to start making characters for older, enfeebled players.





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"Re(7):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Tue 30 Sep 12:35:post reply

quote:
But do new players want a simple character? There are times it seems newer players can adapt to a game far more quickly than others because they are approaching the game with a fresh outlook, unlike veteran players who have trivia from a dozen other fighters lodged in their brains. Game designers need to start making characters for older, enfeebled players.




Interestingly, this is something I've been wondering about myself-- are there any good examples of how new players can adapt faster to a new fighting game? It's something I've given some thought to for a potentail future project, but I've yet to find any points where a newcomer would actually have an edge over veterans. Veteran players simply seem to adapt faster unless they're specialized to a single series.





[this message was edited by Professor on Tue 30 Sep 12:39]

Ishmael
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"Re(8):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Thu 2 Oct 10:31post reply

quote:
Interestingly, this is something I've been wondering about myself-- are there any good examples of how new players can adapt faster to a new fighting game? It's something I've given some thought to for a potentail future project, but I've yet to find any points where a newcomer would actually have an edge over veterans. Veteran players simply seem to adapt faster unless they're specialized to a single series.


Hmm, it's hard to say since I only have anecdotal evidence to back up any of my half-baked notions about games. But if I had to guess I would say that the one place where veteran players have an advantage is in having a better grasp of the fundamentals of fighting games such as spacing, when to attack, when to block and so on. That's something that you might only be able to learn as you play games. To use a tournament example it's why Justin Wong was able to do so well in Killer Instinct tournaments by ignoring most of the intricacies of the game engine and using the basic skills he employs in any fighter he plays.

When it comes to learning a character I think it's a much more level playing field. I think there is a tendency to overestimate how long it takes to learn a character. Back in the arcade days people learned characters one credit at a time but they still managed to become competent at the games. Nowadays there is a wealth of information available but most players quickly realize they don't need to memorize every attack or bit of frame data. Instead they find something that wins matches and run with it until it stops working. This tunnel vision approach to learning a game is found in most players regardless of how long they have been playing. Again, see Justin Wong's run in KI for that behavior in action. I think there are times when experienced players get too set in their ways and try to play multiple games the same way but that's not something that's an obvious advantage to a new player.

I was being a bit snarky in my previous post since I do think that someone with experience will often be able to adapt faster than someone who is trying fighting games for the first time. I don't, however, think this is as insurmountable a challenge as it is sometimes viewed. I also don't think that most methods of bringing in new players are particularly good. Has anyone ever used "EASY" mode in a fighting game? Too many games try to entice new players by making something that is one step removed from the actual game. Instead of trying to find one thing that will appease new players programmers would do a lot better if they thought of how they can make a game that is engaging to players of all skill levels.

Then again, I am just rambling.





CHAZumaru
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"Re(9):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Thu 2 Oct 18:31post reply

quote:
Back in the arcade days people learned characters one credit at a time but they still managed to become competent at the games. Nowadays there is a wealth of information available but most players quickly realize they don't need to memorize every attack

Regarding this specific point, this is something that is troubling me with modern fighting games. "Back in the days", you had to learn your character "one credit at the time" (as you elegantly put it) because 1. you had no resources to pinpoint what to focus on 2. each character did not have so many moves to begin with. You could learn all of them, and many of them probably had some utility.

With the increasing complexity of game systems and character movelists, becoming good at a fighting game has become a metagame of frame analysis and rejecting data (rather than gathering data). There are three or four moves than can serve as anti-air, but there is really only one you should use. So the intelligence in playing becomes how much you narrow your poolset of moves' knowledge compared to how much you learnt in the first place. And I admire the players who do that well, but I am much less impressed by the game designers who built this system.

It looks deep, but considering how games are now digested by their audience, I rather see it as crude game design. Players should be left with evident choices, and those choices should be extremely simple to grasp. That's why "Rock Paper Scissors" is such a popular game design principle, often used to schematize/explain/design more obtuse mechanics. It's a clear rule, with easy to grasp choices, but no obvious winning solution.

It's from the application of simple choices that depth should appear. That's the basis of popular games such as Go or Chess. It's also the popular explanation for (association) football's popularity worldwide compared to more complex sports (the famous 17 laws of the game which make the official referee manual much thinner than most professional sports' equivalents).

I wish fighting game developers would aim for that kind of design. I was very disappointed when KOF12 progressively revealed more gauges during its development; the initial design with only a life bar shown was quite promising to level the field. And veterans would still be advantaged by the instinctive knowledge described by Ishmael to explain J.Wong's run in Killer Instinct.





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Professor
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"Re(9):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Thu 2 Oct 21:16:post reply

I was thinking that games with completely odd controls (take Buriki One for example) can possibly be one area where the experiences of a seasoned player could actually hurt them and give advantage to new players. A control scheme that makes you move with the buttons and attack with the joystick is so revolutionary that I haven't seen a similar game since!

Seriously though given that Buriki One is as kaput as the Virtual Boy and no love in the world can bring it back, I can't come up with more practical cases where a new player can have advantage over a seasoned player in a new fighter. It's something I'd be delighted to find as encouragement to new players. Having more free time as a youth is certainly a plus, but that's about it.




quote:
There are three or four moves than can serve as anti-air, but there is really only one you should use.

Art Of Fighting Gaiden is our teacher





[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 2 Oct 22:36]

Ishmael
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"Re(10):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Fri 3 Oct 09:26post reply

Quan Chi is back in MKX and still looks like a guy wearing cheap stage makeup. I must say his Warlock mode is hilariously inventive and looks like great fun. His Summoner mode looks like a lame version of Nakoruru but everyone is going to want to play Warlock mode anyway so why bother trying to make it interesting?

quote:
It looks deep, but considering how games are now digested by their audience, I rather see it as crude game design. Players should be left with evident choices, and those choices should be extremely simple to grasp. That's why "Rock Paper Scissors" is such a popular game design principle, often used to schematize/explain/design more obtuse mechanics. It's a clear rule, with easy to grasp choices, but no obvious winning solution.


This is a very good point. Too many games mistake overload with complexity. I've always felt that Tekken does itself no favors with move lists that stretch off into infinity. Thing is, fighting games have always been complex. Back in SF2:WW Ryu had 35 different ways of attacking his opponent. That variety gives players the ability to act in their own way to any situation. To pull off an anti-air in WW should Ryu use a standing , crouching or a dragon punch? The player can constantly create their own play style on the fly which is tremendously exciting. But at what point do options become hindrances? When do stances, gauges and gameplay systems become a confusing mess? I don't know, but I don't think it would hurt if programmers sometimes took a step back and ask themselves whether their game would make any damn sense to someone who has never played fighting games before.

quote:
I was thinking that games with completely odd controls (take Buriki One for example) can possibly be one area where the experiences of a seasoned player could actually hurt them and give advantage to new players. A control scheme that makes you move with the buttons and attack with the joystick is so revolutionary that I haven't seen a similar game since!


...Or in the case of Buriki One the programmers might want to ask themselves if the game makes any damn sense to anyone. Nuts, it's not very encouraging for new players if the best advice you can offer is to wait for a game with a control scheme so original that nobody knows how to play it. Perhaps the best thing to do is remind new players that at the end of it all fighting games are simply about knocking the other guy out and that you shouldn't overthink things when you're just starting out.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Fri 3 Oct 11:33post reply

It's the good ol'

complexity != depth

One thing which fighting game players will always have an advantage in is in having manual coordination. Even in games which you don't have to do fireball motions or EWGFs, I'm used to having to have to react quickly to things, to having coordinated button presses within short timing windows, and knowing the difference between situations where input is lenient and input is strict and using that to my advantage. There's less cognitive overhead burdening my actions and reactions. The more like fighting games we know a given game is, the more transferable skills are. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

A familiar question is "how good of a gamer does a person reviewing a game have to be"; that is, is it possible that in spite of arbitrary amounts of game design knowledge and experience, simply not being good at a game prevents you from evaluating it accurately? When Blazblue had the innovative 2F input buffer for button presses which made linking moves much much easier, how actually useful that mechanic is would be totally lost to somebody below a certain level of competence. No matter how good it looks on paper, without a sufficient level of skill you can't appraise whether or not it's well implemented.

But some would argue that that kind of minutuae suggests something inherently wrong in the game design.

One thing's for sure is that it is possible to simply drop experienced players into a space where EVERYTHING is different. Dominant fighting game players definitely do not suddenly become dominant FPS players, and those in turn do not suddenly become dominant RTS players. The Gundam Vs. series is absolutely a fighting game series, but it's also definitely way different from fighting games in the 2D vein that to this day is still paying its dues to Street Fighter.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Sat 4 Oct 00:30post reply

I think it all boils down to the fact that most fighting games are generally shit at explaining themselves. Probably because they are made by people who have been playing fighting games for long, worked to start developing fighting games, and now go on doing the same thing they enjoyed 20 years ago, without noticing that the world has changed or the people they used to be when they munched through quarters with SF2 or Garô don't exist anymore.
There is no regeneration of generations. The new players have different skills and different histories than the one we had when we were their age in the 1990 (+/- 5 years).
I am still amazed on how fighting game developers fail at explaining why anyone should be excited by their new game. Which is why the only fighting games that somewhat work are crossovers of famous franchises. You don't need to explain what interesting strategies Adachi brings into P4U or why is Rockman such an interesting and complex character that has no equivalent in Smash Bros: they are Adachi! From P4! They are Rockman! The Rockman you always liked, not the fat one from SfxT!

Unfortunately, what it does is merely build up the hype, and hype deflates easily. With all the buzz on Smash, the demo didn't even have tutorials on how to play the game, what you are supposed to do with, at the very least, the Villager and Rockman. Likewise, with all its mode, the final game doesn't even have a proper tutorial, or even explanations about Smash-specific concepts such as the fights around the ledges.
In the end, the novelty of Rockman in Smash ran off far before the game was released, and when we see him on the select screen now, it's just "ah, yeah, Rockman is in this game".

I never understood why trailers for new fighting game characters were merely flashy fast montages of the visually impressive moves, without any actual gameplay explanation. Why should I be excited for that new Korean chick you add to SSF4? What's her playstyle? Which kind of players is she for? Well, in that case, I'll just focus to the characters I already know, Ibuki, Adon, T. Hawk...
But that's good for me, because I know the others. How about a totally new player? He sees these 10 new characters. Yeay! Excite! And then he gets slaughtered online and goes back to Ken.
Meanwhile, all the game wants to teach is merely obsolete and unpractical combos. Yeay.
In the end, fighting games end up like Wonderful 101 (well, it's probably the opposite): you can only enjoy them if you have the courage, dedication, and net literacy to go online and learn their obtuse mechanics.

"With that character, you should never jump". "With that character, you should focus on attacking aggressively and pressuring". "With that character, you should play defensive, keep your distances, and spam projectiles". "If an opponent pins you down with projectiles, here are some techniques to get out". "If an opponent is jumping at you with a dive kick, here is what you should do".
Developers who fail at putting themselves in the shoes of a beginner should not be allowed to complain that their game is deserted. You can put Wolverine and Ironman in your MvC, it will attract people, they will play for a week-end, watch cool things explode, and then sell it because they don't understand what to do and how to properly enjoy it.

Conclusion: Skullgirls is a fantastic game and it should get so much more recognition. Plus, Eliza is finally available! And she's fantastic! Play Skullgirls.





kofoguz
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"Gameplay Cake!" , posted Sat 4 Oct 03:10post reply

Ok after a few days ago's foolishness I have to redeem myself by saying something smart. Hooray for more foolishness.
quote:
I never understood why trailers for new fighting game characters were merely flashy fast montages of the visually impressive moves, without any actual gameplay explanation. Why should I be excited for that new Korean chick you add to SSF4? What's her playstyle? Which kind of players is she for? Well, in that case, I'll just focus to the characters I already know, Ibuki, Adon, T. Hawk...
But that's good for me, because I know the others. How about a totally new player? He sees these 10 new characters. Yeay! Excite! And then he gets slaughtered online and goes back to Ken.

After the hype of Smash Brawl I tried to play it for the first time, I dont think it was rocket science but I couldn't get into it. Maybe it was that playing alone and there's no fun fighting without friends or with friends themselves in real life outside the game. Or maybe there was no "game explaining itself" feature, I dont mean I want game to hold my hand, not at all, but there should be something catchy. Now with new Smash, trailers and new additions achieved to get me hyped for some reason but since no wii U I'm thinking going back to Brawl for second chance.
quote:

Interestingly, this is something I've been wondering about myself-- are there any good examples of how new players can adapt faster to a new fighting game? It's something I've given some thought to for a potentail future project, but I've yet to find any points where a newcomer would actually have an edge over veterans. Veteran players simply seem to adapt faster unless they're specialized to a single series.

I dont know if it's quite the same example but a friend of mine refused to play 2002 because he thinks that the designs and moves were too marvel for his taste (Especially K9999). We used to play 97-98 but I believe he stopped after and didnt played the sequels. But maybe this wasnt a good example since the story is just for one person and doesnt include new players to get it on easily.





Professor
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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):GGXXmas Cake" , posted Sat 4 Oct 06:32:post reply

Personally, I think tutorials are really hard to develop for fighting games. Some people have tried to make really in-depth tutorials and I don't want to speak ill of them, but they feel like doing homework and they're the furthest thing fron having fun.


It's quite understandable. For example, old SNK titles like Fatal Fury always had the "how to control" demo in the beginning of the game (hold up to jump, back to block, A to punch, B to kick, C to throw --remember that?). Back then, that was good enough because everyone was a beginner. Everyone learned the metagame gradually as they played the games, accumulating experience as they switched titles.

Tutorials in modern fighting games try to close some of that experience gap for new players, but that's like cramming in years of experience into a few pages. It's sort of scary to think that good tutorials in fighting games actually only touch the surface of the meta-game and they still end up so huge.

Digressing a bit, Take action games in comparison. Super Mario in particular is a really good example of how you can make the gameplay itself into a tutorial; the player can just hit the start button and start playing, and the learning will come naturally from the first few stages. The game's mechanics and gimmicks are introduced in a well presented manner that there's no text needed to explain anything. Of course, learning the weirder techniques like moving inside the blocks would need explaining, but that's sort of a tech or a glitch and not a part of game by design. You certainly don't need to know them to play through the game.

Perhaps making a tutorial in a similar manner may be one solution, but things aren't as easy for Fighting games. Its main salespoint isn't as a single player experience, and when playing head to head, human opponents are a totally different experience from CPU movement. For one example, people will use techniques and glitches that have been discovered throughout the years. Unlike Super Mario, you *need* to know them in order to play because often times the developers won't fix it and may even adapt them into the game's future sequels because they add depth by bringing a more multi-layered metagame of rocks-papers-sissors. This is another example of why fighting games have gotten complicated to play. I think only two games actually do a good job at actually explaining them in-game, which are Blazblue and Skullgirls.


Conclusion #2: Skullgirls is a fantastic game and it should get so much more recognition. I'm looking forward to Beowolf too.





[this message was edited by Professor on Sat 4 Oct 21:37]

Ishmael
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"Re(1):Gameplay Cake!" , posted Mon 6 Oct 05:41post reply

How much is a fighting game obligated to explain itself? Take the Souls games as an example. Everything you need to win is available in the game but it's certainly not going to tell you about any of it. Instead, you are almost obligated to rely on others. Whether it is the in-game graffiti (which may or may not help) players who come into your world (who may or may not help) or the internet (which is the internet) the games have a second layer of interaction that is every bit as dangerous as any of the enemies you face. An entire community has built up around the Souls games just through trying to figure out how to play the dumb things. How is this community different from the community that has sprung up around fighting games? In the past several years fighting game developers have been relying more and more on that community. Not only does the fighting game community help take the burden off trying to explain every factor in a fighter but it also adds that second layer of interaction that goes beyond the game itself. Like the Souls games, this has both benefits and problems.

quote:
It's the good ol'

complexity != depth


While it is ultimately on developers to recognize what should and should not be in a game I do wonder if the excess clutter in games might partially be due to misreading fan demands. Take Divekick for example. Here was a game that initially gained popularity because it was absurdly streamlined. But as the game progressed more characters, sub-systems and extraneous crap was shoved in until the title that was finally sold to the public had none of the simplicity that had drawn people to the game in the first place. If fans can't show any restraint what are game developers supposed to think that they actually want?

quote:
I never understood why trailers for new fighting game characters were merely flashy fast montages of the visually impressive moves, without any actual gameplay explanation. Why should I be excited for that new Korean chick you add to SSF4? What's her playstyle? Which kind of players is she for? Well, in that case, I'll just focus to the characters I already know, Ibuki, Adon, T. Hawk...


But isn't it the players who decide how a character is going to play? I remember Juri was originally advertised as a character who had easy special moves so she would be accessible to new players. But while she had simple commands it turned out that she's a situational character who ended up being complicated due to the way she has to be played. Honestly, the trailers for Juri sold me on her because they advertised her as the psycho chick that was missing from my life Street Fighter. Sometimes selling the style is more useful than anything else. That, of course, also has its problems...

quote:
After the hype of Smash Brawl I tried to play it for the first time, I dont think it was rocket science but I couldn't get into it. Maybe it was that playing alone and there's no fun fighting without friends or with friends themselves in real life outside the game. Or maybe there was no "game explaining itself" feature, I dont mean I want game to hold my hand, not at all, but there should be something catchy. Now with new Smash, trailers and new additions achieved to get me hyped for some reason but since no wii U I'm thinking going back to Brawl for second chance.

I'm having the same issues with Smash as well. Everyone else seems very excited but at the moment I don't know what the deal is with those games. Is it as Iggy said and Smash is doing a bad job of telling me how I am supposed to be playing? Or is it because I don't know anyone who is part of the Smash community who can explain what it is I'm supposed to be excited about? I don't know but for me I feel that Smash is the fighting game that the Professor was looking for that is so different from the norm that new and old players alike will be on equal footing when playing.

Conclusion #3: Skullgirls initially shipped without something as elementary as a moves list and that faux pas has stuck with me ever since.





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