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karasu
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"Musou-ing" , posted Sun 13 Apr 03:04post reply

Because Chaz has an excellent point. And because I'd love to discuss Musou some more myself!

quote:
Striking sword is Sima Zhao. Each character has one weapon and each weapon has one character, so you'll be using their "signature" weapon plus whatever they have a good affinity with. There are 4 classes of weapons (it's like...wind, dash, shadow, diver, I think?) Personally, I'm still at the point of trying out every character, so I haven't chosen complex favorites for secondary weapons, as I've focused my efforts on getting better primary ones.

I don't recall what the charm system was like, but this time you just have weapon attributes (musou up, elemental, whatever) and different weapons have different numbers of slots and different levels of these attributes. You combine weapons to get your ideal setup.

You will definitely want Velocity, which raises attack speed. The results can be quite impressive.

My personal favorite weapon is Ma Dai's brush, though Lu Xun's swallow swords and Cao Cao's general's swords also stick out.


I'm actually surprised that you like Ma Dai's brush, since it (and Ma Dai) is one of my least favorites. For me, I really like Zhong Hui's flying swords, Huang Gai's iron boat, and Chen Gong's bamboo scroll. I want to like Lu Su's rake weapon, but it wasn't nearly as much fun as I hoped. I rarely if ever bother with secondary weapons-- maybe I will if I ever manage to have time to approach higher difficulties!

This is just a massive game! Between story mode and all the hypothetical scenarios I've hardly even touched ambition mode!






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Mosquiton
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"Re(1):Musou-ing" , posted Sun 13 Apr 03:54post reply

quote:

Striking sword is Sima Zhao. Each character has one weapon and each weapon has one character, so you'll be using their "signature" weapon plus whatever they have a good affinity with. There are 4 classes of weapons (it's like...wind, dash, shadow, diver, I think?) Personally, I'm still at the point of trying out every character, so I haven't chosen complex favorites for secondary weapons, as I've focused my efforts on getting better primary ones.

I don't recall what the charm system was like, but this time you just have weapon attributes (musou up, elemental, whatever) and different weapons have different numbers of slots and different levels of these attributes. You combine weapons to get your ideal setup.

You will definitely want Velocity, which raises attack speed. The results can be quite impressive.

My personal favorite weapon is Ma Dai's brush, though Lu Xun's swallow swords and Cao Cao's general's swords also stick out.

-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --


Ah Sima Zhao kind of gets on my nerves, but I do think striking swords makes a decent crowd-control secondary weapon.

Wang Yi is my current favorite, I really like her air musou attacks that targets an individual. Tri-Forks are not bad and her EX moves are pretty convenient.

So I just played a bit of DW7 and didn't play vanilla 8 at all... it's a lot to take in at once since theast DW I really put a lot of time into was DW5.





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"Re(2):Musou-ing" , posted Sun 13 Apr 04:52post reply

quote:
I'm actually surprised that you like Ma Dai's brush, since it (and Ma Dai) is one of my least favorites. For me, I really like Zhong Hui's flying swords, Huang Gai's iron boat, and Chen Gong's bamboo scroll. I want to like Lu Su's rake weapon, but it wasn't nearly as much fun as I hoped. I rarely if ever bother with secondary weapons-- maybe I will if I ever manage to have time to approach higher difficulties!

I dislike Zhong Hui because he's so cool, it's stupid. He's ludicrously hot and ludicrously badass. It's like...unfair.

Ma Dai is the right mix between quirky and effective for me. Also, all those falcon noises on the Suzaku attack on his rage musou! Guo Huai might be my favorite character, but he falls just a hair on the bad side of "quirky." I need to try him with a high velocity weapon, though. That might be a lot of fun.

Ding Feng was a big favorite in 7, but I don't like his new weapon nearly as much. He has some of my favorite musou attacks by far, though. Huang Gai isn't normally the type of character I would play, but his throws are just too great. Also, I love his pantsless chef outfit.

As for the secondary weapons, yeah, I feel like that's more of a customization thing once you start developing your favorites more. Right now, I'm still leveling everyone to get their full move sets.

quote:
This is just a massive game! Between story mode and all the hypothetical scenarios I've hardly even touched ambition mode!

Thanks to Ambition Mode, I've hardly touched story mode! Ambition Mode can get a bit boring/tiresome after a while though, so I have a feeling I'll be flip-flopping on that soon.

quote:

Wang Yi is my current favorite, I really like her air musou attacks that targets an individual. Tri-Forks are not bad and her EX moves are pretty convenient.


Wang Yi is so cool and so sexy, but what the hell is going on with her English voice!? Her delivery on so many lines is just...completely bonkers. Her "This feels great!" is so unnatural! Regardless of if she's a good actress or not, how could the director say "Yep, that sounds like how a human being would say something. Let's go with that one."

The Japanese cast can pretty awful, though. I get sick of hearing the same dumb voices in anime-style dubs and prefer stage and film actors in the mix, but I don't know who most of the DW actors are. Seemingly amateurs, though. Anyway, the result is "just kind of poor" instead of "fresh."

I am looking forward to having the Japanese voice track for certain characters, so when I start narrowing down my favorites, if one has an especially awful performance in one language or the other, at least I have options.





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Mosquiton
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""This Feels Great!"" , posted Sun 13 Apr 07:37:post reply

quote:

I dislike Zhong Hui because he's so cool, it's stupid. He's ludicrously hot and ludicrously badass. It's like...unfair.

Ma Dai is the right mix between quirky and effective for me. Also, all those falcon noises on the Suzaku attack on his rage musou! Guo Huai might be my favorite character, but he falls just a hair on the bad side of "quirky."



I agree with these assessments. Zhong Hui kind of is too much. Flying Swords are a great weapon as well! As for Guo Huai "kooky" is the word that comes to mind for that guy. He's still pretty cool anyway.

As for Wang Yi, yes, when I hear "This Feels Great!" I think "This is Pretty Bad!" But I'm used to laughing at Dynasty Warriors and still enjoying it.

One other question I had involved leveling people up with shared XP. I gather that you have to build the Academy in ambition mode?





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[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sun 13 Apr 07:53]

Pollyanna
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"Re(1):" , posted Sun 13 Apr 09:10post reply

quote:

One other question I had involved leveling people up with shared XP. I gather that you have to build the Academy in ambition mode?



Short answer: The Academy lets you "buy" experience and yes, you build it in Ambition Mode. Comes fairly quickly. There's also a Training Grounds (don't know if that's the official name) that lets characters "train" for free while you're doing missions. They level very slowly this way, but if you're not using the character anyway, there's not point in not using it.





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"Re(3):Musou-ing" , posted Mon 14 Apr 08:07post reply

quote:
Guo Huai might be my favorite character, but he falls just a hair on the bad side of "quirky." I need to try him with a high velocity weapon, though. That might be a lot of fun.



Although I do not have DW8 yet I must take this chance to declare that I loved Guo Huai to death in DW7. Not necessarily to use as a character, but whenever he would show up on a map as an enemy or ally it brightened my day. His constant hammy declarations of how he was JUST about to die with exaggerated death coughing always made me chuckle. Though I do kind of wonder if he was intended to be serious first, and bad acting just turned him into more of a joke.

quote:

Wang Yi is so cool and so sexy, but what the hell is going on with her English voice!? Her delivery on so many lines is just...completely bonkers. Her "This feels great!" is so unnatural! Regardless of if she's a good actress or not, how could the director say "Yep, that sounds like how a human being would say something. Let's go with that one."



Is Wang Yi's English voice worse than this touching scene?

quote:

The Japanese cast can pretty awful, though. I get sick of hearing the same dumb voices in anime-style dubs and prefer stage and film actors in the mix, but I don't know who most of the DW actors are. Seemingly amateurs, though. Anyway, the result is "just kind of poor" instead of "fresh."

I am looking forward to having the Japanese voice track for certain characters, so when I start narrowing down my favorites, if one has an especially awful performance in one language or the other, at least I have options.



Wait, is there no Japanese voice track in the English version yet? Or are you referring to some kind of person-to-person voice change feature a la SF4?

I'm frustrated reading things about DW8 because I want to get in on it but I am so behind on my backlog thanks to all the PS2 games I played last year. I'm planning to get the Vita version when I get around to it in... a year... or so...





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"Re(4):Musou-ing" , posted Mon 14 Apr 14:35post reply

quote:
Although I do not have DW8 yet I must take this chance to declare that I loved Guo Huai to death in DW7. Not necessarily to use as a character, but whenever he would show up on a map as an enemy or ally it brightened my day. His constant hammy declarations of how he was JUST about to die with exaggerated death coughing always made me chuckle. Though I do kind of wonder if he was intended to be serious first, and bad acting just turned him into more of a joke.


Hacking and coughing and talking about how he almost died is his schtick. He's even goofier in Japanese.





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"Re(5):Musou-ing" , posted Mon 14 Apr 19:36post reply

I love how Chaz's name will be forever tied to this thread (which he will anyway take over when Zelda Musou comes in to play).

I don't have anything else to add, the only Musou games I played were... Sengoku 2 and Orochi 2, maybe?
Not a huge fan, but the grinding potential and mindlessness of it all amazes me (and I say it without any veiled criticism).
My issue is that I don't know Chinese or Romance of 3 kingdoms, so either I play in japanese with characters whose names I cannot read, or I play the western version with is against my principles.

That reminds me I have some grinding left ungrinded in Basara4...





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"Re(6):Musou-ing" , posted Tue 15 Apr 18:51:post reply

EDIT
Wow, so, no patch and the only DLC we get today are base themes and music packs. Also, contrary to what Koei said, it must be repurchased on PS4. So, just to outline this, in addition to missing a patch, PS4 players cannot access huge amounts of DLC, even if they already purchased it and have to re-purchase it for PS4 if they got it on PS3.

This puts every Capcom DLC fiasco to shame. If there's ever been something worse, I don't want to know about it.

quote:
Is Wang Yi's English voice worse than this touching scene?

Youch. Although she's obviously not the big offender there, Ginichiyo at least, is only scarcely less awful in Japanese. Not that I care for Sengoku Musou anyway, though 4 does look vaguely promising.

A random note about dubbing that really stuck out for me in that scene...unlike the Japanese actors, the English ones had to try and match the previously-animated lip flaps. I think that significantly adds to the awkwardness here. This is a huge frustration in anime dubs as well, as US companies insist on matching flaps that even the Japanese original bulldozes over. Sometimes the flaps on the screen simply do not allow for any kind of natural dialogue...but apparently it's better to fill the character's mouths with awkwardly-delivered, poorly-written garbage than have things not match up just right.
quote:

Wait, is there no Japanese voice track in the English version yet? Or are you referring to some kind of person-to-person voice change feature a la SF4?

There is a Japanese voice track in the PS3 version, but not PS4 yet. We're also lacking an important update patch and all of the damned DLC. Supposedly we're getting something tomorrow, but I have a sinking feeling it'll be the paid DLC and not the things we're supposed to have. Koei of America has a pretty bad track record on this stuff, from what I hear.

I can see where, from what I said, you might think there was a character-per-character option, but what I meant was that I would decide which language was the worst offender depending on which character I was pumping the most effort into at the time.

quote:
My issue is that I don't know Chinese or Romance of 3 kingdoms, so either I play in japanese with characters whose names I cannot read, or I play the western version with is against my principles.

I hate playing any 3 Kingdoms game in Japanese, because I have to learn the Japanese names for all of the characters. I know the Chinese to English Romanizations, of course, but the Japanese names are completely different. This is especially great/terrible for a card game when I get a new card and have to say "Who the hell is this?" They could be my favorite character from the novel and I wouldn't even know.





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[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Wed 16 Apr 06:36]

karasu
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"Re(7):Musou-ing" , posted Thu 17 Apr 08:57post reply

quote:
EDIT
Wow, so, no patch and the only DLC we get today are base themes and music packs. Also, contrary to what Koei said, it must be repurchased on PS4. So, just to outline this, in addition to missing a patch, PS4 players cannot access huge amounts of DLC, even if they already purchased it and have to re-purchase it for PS4 if they got it on PS3.

This puts every Capcom DLC fiasco to shame. If there's ever been something worse, I don't want to know about it.



Yeah, that pretty much 100% sucks! I'm torn as to whether or not I think it's deliberate shenanigans on the part of Koei (e.g. trying to extract all that cash twice) or just carelessness or cluelessness (e.g. having no idea that cross buy is possible, forgetting to 'check the box' when pushing the updates live, or whatever). It's also interesting that there doesn't seem to be a PS3->PS4 discounted upgrade track either, like there is for a few other games. It may even be that their perception is that the actual number of PS3 owners who would upgrade is close to zero, but even if that's the case it seems like they would at least invite the possibility? Ugh.

quote:
Japanese names

I had never thought about this being a problem, having only ever attempted the games in English. I think I actually know a few of the Japanese names though from other sources (like Lu Bu=Ryofu).






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"Horsemanship" , posted Sun 11 May 11:57post reply

So I haven't been playing much DW8 in the last month or so but I played a bit yesterday with the wife and discovered (re-discovered?) a cool trick.

If you hold down the L2 button after you whistle for your horse you'll jump onto it mid-stride.

This is so great! Why was I waiting for the horse to stop and hitting the jump button to maybe get on the horse like an idiot?

I feel like this is something I knew how to do before, and was probably in previous games, but I was still like "Whoa!"

The time limits in Ambition mode are still pretty annoying though. The "gather supplies" skill of your bodyguards doesn't quite have as strong an effect as I'd like.





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"Re(1):Horsemanship" , posted Thu 22 May 01:44post reply

It seems that Samurai Warriors 4 is making it out of Japan. I lost track of the SW at some point so how is the series nowadays?

A few new shots of Hyrule Musou have also surfaced via Famitsu. Tingle has yet to be confirmed as a playable character.

I like Musou games but I think I'm even more amused by the fact that there are so many games being made that are built around this repetitive time sink formula. At this point I would to have to take a month's leave from work and Musou all day just to get somewhat caught up.





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"Re(2):Horsemanship" , posted Thu 22 May 05:46post reply

quote:

I like Musou games but I think I'm even more amused by the fact that there are so many games being made that are built around this repetitive time sink formula. At this point I would to have to take a month's leave from work and Musou all day just to get somewhat caught up.



When are we going to get AKB48: Musuo





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"Re(2):Horsemanship" , posted Thu 22 May 11:08post reply

quote:
It seems that Samurai Warriors 4 is making it out of Japan. I lost track of the SW at some point so how is the series nowadays?


Samurai Warriors 3, at least the Wii version, felt underwhelming.

I'm not entirely sure what went wrong. It wasn't that it was on the Wii. It just felt dull after a bit, wearing out its welcome faster than previous games. Maybe it was a bunch of little things, combined with not enough positive improvements.

The map screen showing side missions battle started seemed like a positive, until you realized that there weren't any real choices. Seeing side missions scattered across the map, with time conditions set so that you can't see how you can make them all, that seemed interesting and felt like you'd have to make some real choices. Then you play a level and see the objectives move around the map so that you easily hit all of them by following a linear path.

Murasame Castle at first seemed a bit annoying, and then seemed an interesting addition. In some ways it was too interesting. While most of the Murasame stages were "play once and never play again" affairs, some were rather fun and some were good for grinding. A month in, I found myself largely replaying the same two or three Murasame stages (the multifloor castle stages) over and over again (for mindless no special objective slaughter) instead of actually running the rest of the characters through story mode.

Worse, the rest of my time was spent farming one of the Free Mode stages for easy access weapons. Not even playing the stage, just grabbing the easily accessible boxes and then suiciding.

And the game simply didn't do enough otherwise new. It looked kind of like a PS2 game. It played a lot like the PS2 games. It, other than the changes/ideas that mostly backfired anyway, felt like a very by-the-numbers no ambition and no imagination generic X Warriors game.

The English dub was rather bad, too.

Hopefully SW4 does something interesting.





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"Re(3):Horsemanship" , posted Thu 22 May 17:42post reply

Though I don't remember being completely disappointed with SW3, I can't really argue what Baines is saying because I've forgotten what was actually good. I guess that says something. All I remember is that I liked a few of the new characters. Which means most of them were pretty bland. They even had Sugita on the voice cast and had him playing the most boring, serious character possible.

On the flip side, I went back and played SW2 again recently (after finally buying the expansion for the 360 version) and still found it pretty fun. Something about the speed of the game, the characters, the flow of progression just felt tighter and smoother than the way SW3 was. Even the English voices actually sounded good for the most part, and the extra mercenary and sudoroku modes were fun, painless diversions.

I'm not sure how to feel about SW4. I suppose I'm glad it's actually coming out since the expansion for SW3 never being released outside of Japan could have indicated a lack of support for the series internationally. Will it be worth playing, though? I don't know. Koshosho seems like a refreshingly different character, at least.





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"Re(3):Horsemanship" , posted Fri 23 May 03:10post reply

The Hyrule Warriors page is up. It's frustrating to be excited about a game that's on a system you will never own.

I'm surprised to see that people share the same level of ambivalence toward SW but in spite of that the series continues to jug along. It seems that sometimes doesn't need to be stellar to continue but simply needs to be good enough to make the cut.

quote:
When are we going to get AKB48: Musuo


Don't give them ideas!





karasu
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"Re(1):Horsemanship" , posted Mon 26 May 02:35post reply

quote:

If you hold down the L2 button after you whistle for your horse you'll jump onto it mid-stride.

This is so great! Why was I waiting for the horse to stop and hitting the jump button to maybe get on the horse like an idiot?

I feel like this is something I knew how to do before, and was probably in previous games, but I was still like "Whoa!"



I keep meaning to reply to this comment but I was traveling when I first read it and didn't have a chance to actually try this out. Mosquiton, you have seriously blown my mind! I have no idea if this was a feature of previous games, but it's always been a sticking point for me in regard to horse use, to the point where I almost avoid using horses, so this materially improves my already pretty great Musou experience. Thanks!

On the subject of Sengoku Musou/Samurai Warriors, I've never been able to stand that particular Musou series, for one reason or the other. Even in Musou Orochi games I tend to avoid the SW characters a bit. The designs seem weirdly ornate, but somehow boring and nowhere near as fun to play as when compared to the DW ones. There may also be an element of Sengoku Basara designs being infinitele better for many of the same characters.






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"Re(2):Horsemanship" , posted Mon 26 May 09:28post reply

I can't believe Iggy did not share this already: Re(2):Horsemanship





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"Hyrule Warriors?!" , posted Sat 4 Oct 18:10post reply

I... I can't be the only one, can I? It's fantastic. Probably the best Zelda game in almost two decades. Do I mean that? Of course I mean that. Let's talk about this.





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"Re(1):Hyrule Warriors?!" , posted Sat 4 Oct 19:22post reply

quote:
I... I can't be the only one, can I? It's fantastic. Probably the best Zelda game in almost two decades. Do I mean that? Of course I mean that. Let's talk about this.


It's my 2nd favorite Zelda game and arguably my favorite Musou. (Admittedly, I'm more of a Musou fan than a Zelda fan, but I'm not throwing A Link Between Worlds under the bus that soon)

The game really put the Musou series into perspective for me, though. I realized how "self-focused" they are. I like Kaizoku Musou because I get to use my favorite characters, lovingly crafted with their attacks accurately rendered. Everything surrounding that is clearly less important. In nearly every Musou game, the bases may or may not matter, the enemies may or may not actually attack you and bosses are just meatbags that might scare you with a musou move from time to time. Your character is kicking ass, and that's all that matters.

But Zelda Musou puts all of those things into a much better perspective. The enemies aren't defined by their threat to you...they obviously pose no threat...they're defined by their use as cannon fodder, either to charge your super gauge to use against stronger enemies or to take over a base. This base system is nothing new, but I felt like it was actually implemented well for once, where the layouts of the stages are very clear and there's an obvious idea of what path your army is trying to take and what path the enemy is trying to take. How many bases you control and which ones are important are crystal clear.

That's why enemies work so well as fodder, rather than threats. They don't eat up your life, they eat up your time. It takes time to kill them and claim a base. You have to decide which you can afford to mess with. These dilemmas always played out well for me...and naturally with the narrative. I really felt like I had my cake and ate it, too. The levels made sense, but they were interesting...the story stages were free of gimmicks in their progression (sudden ambushes, stupid side quests), but played out delightfully.

The counter system on the boss-type enemies (I don't know the technical name for this) is clever as well, because it no longer makes boring, endless combos the most effective way to deal with something. Now you need to watch your enemies...now you need to learn their attacks. This plays in with the sense of "time" as well, I think and keeps you feeling awesome and powerful with the counter "super moves."

I think the poor AI causes one of the game's major missteps here, though. This system fails to reach its potential in practice because the enemies are not nearly aggressive enough. I want to fail because I misread an attack, not because they're standing still for too long, not attacking whatsoever. The relative ineffectiveness of normal attacks vs counter attacks sometimes results in a meaningless stare-off, which adds tension because it takes up time, but still feels like weak game design. I think if they work with this system more and develop it a bit further in other Musou games, it might really make a big difference in the series. It adds a sense of drama to the boss battles, allows the enemies to shine a bit and lets you feel even cooler when you beat them.

The giant monster fights were very well-done as well, though I wish they had been more prevalent. More (different) monsters more often might have mixed the levels up wonderfully.

Adventure Mode is good as well, though the "secret passage" thing is really short-sighted. It's either
A) Needlessly frustrating
or
B) Pointless, because you just look online.

Really, they should've thought about that more. The stages are nice, though, and sometimes quite devious.

I enjoyed every single stage in story mode, but the story itself was awful. Like, the cinemas were terrible. Also, one huge complaint:


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Although it was cool that they let you use Ganondorf as part of the narrative, he was poorly implemented in terms of the story. If you're going to use him for several levels, they could have done something with him. Given him a more sympathetic motivation...or any sort of motivation. Although I loved the final battle, "he turned into a monster, then blew up after I kicked his ass" is a rotten conclusion for a character you spent time with.

End of Spoiler


Random Notes:
-I had to get the game from Best Buy so I could use Skyward Sword Zelda and be double adorable with the Wind Waker.
-With Agitha kind of sucking, I sort of wish they had gone with Ashei.
-I'm happy at the use of some more "classical" instruments in the soundtrack. Skyloft is a big favorite and a very clever arrangement.
-I am very pleased with both the amount of content in the game and the value of the DLC season pass. This is much better than recent Sangoku Musou games, where the ceiling on what you can spend is ludicrously high.





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"Re(2):Hyrule Warriors?!" , posted Sat 4 Oct 22:21post reply

quote:
The game really put the Musou series into perspective for me, though. I realized how "self-focused" they are. I like Kaizoku Musou because I get to use my favorite characters, lovingly crafted with their attacks accurately rendered. Everything surrounding that is clearly less important. In nearly every Musou game, the bases may or may not matter, the enemies may or may not actually attack you and bosses are just meatbags that might scare you with a musou move from time to time. Your character is kicking ass, and that's all that matters.


It was Dynasty Warriors 8 that put the Musou series into perspective for me, and it wasn't a particularly positive perspective.

I miss the feeling that there was an actual dynamic battle going on. When it felt like you were part of a war, and not just the one person that all action must be centered around. I fondly remember early games where you could cower as Dong Zhuo while Lu Bu held the pass against a half-screen of red before he finally falls to the enemy general. Or when you could sit back as Zhuge Liang as the Nanman forces wiped out the Shu army before suiciding against you on your elephant. When, if things went bad in a battle, you could generally make a beeline for the enemy commander before your army folded.

While it had been on the decline for years, it was completely thrown away with the heavily scripted Dynasty Warriors 8. There was no war anymore. It was just the player moving from scripted event to scripted event, the overall battle entirely faked, ally and enemy soldiers spawning and despawning as events required, and the player forced to go through each section of a linear progression.

My fear for Hyrule Warriors is that it is in the same mold as Dynasty Warriors 8, but I haven't been able to find anyone who has played it who would confirm or deny that fear.





Pollyanna
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"Re(3):Hyrule Warriors?!" , posted Sun 5 Oct 02:17:post reply

EDIT:
DUDE. Somehow I didn't realize that the Adventure map is actually an accurate reproduction of the original Legend of Zelda overhead and that the solutions to the "puzzles" (which bush to burn, which tombstone to move) are exactly the same. It's still a little clumsy, but I can scarcely call it random! That really blew my mind!
quote:
While it had been on the decline for years, it was completely thrown away with the heavily scripted Dynasty Warriors 8. There was no war anymore. It was just the player moving from scripted event to scripted event, the overall battle entirely faked, ally and enemy soldiers spawning and despawning as events required, and the player forced to go through each section of a linear progression.

My fear for Hyrule Warriors is that it is in the same mold as Dynasty Warriors 8, but I haven't been able to find anyone who has played it who would confirm or deny that fear.

I must have worded myself poorly. When I said that the stages were free of "gimmicks," I meant that they were not heavily scripted. The game is very distinct in that respect. You have a clear-cut playing field of enemy bases and ally bases, and both sides are marching against each other in a tug-of-war. You have objectives that pop up (clear a path for this general, make a run to the Great Fairy) to mix things up, but every stage in story mode essentially follows the same principle of "capture territory and march towards the boss." Unchecked territory will endlessly spawn enemies and mini-bosses. Most enemies are not defined by their threat to your health, but their threat to the mission as a whole. If you do poorly at maintaining your territory, you'll have to decide if you have time to kill the boss before everything falls apart, or if you should bolster your army before the final fight.

Adventure Mode has a wealth of different objectives, but they don't fall on the heavily scripted side, as there is no scenario involved. One of my favorite kinds of stages is the "kill this many enemies in this amount of time" where killing enemies also spawns giant monsters that wreck your shit and you don't have time to kill.

Although I don't necessarily share your opinion that Musou games used to be better, your complaints about the heavily scripted nature of DW8 are certainly well-founded and definitely addressed in Zelda Musou.

Yeeek, talking about overly-scripted battles with disappearing and reappearing troops gave me unhappy flashbacks to older Super Robot Wars games, where they would rearrange the entire board 5 times a battle, making any kind of strategy completely impossible. Suddenly 20 enemy units would appear and you would lose half of your team, then you would attack 2 of them, 18 would retreat, a completely new set of 20 would appear in different places, and 5 completely new units would join your team. I can take that in a Musou game, but not an SRPG.





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[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Fri 10 Oct 20:44]

Amakusa
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"Re(4):Hyrule Warriors?!" , posted Tue 14 Oct 18:28:post reply

quote:
EDIT:
DUDE. Somehow I didn't realize that the Adventure map is actually an accurate reproduction of the original Legend of Zelda overhead and that the solutions to the "puzzles" (which bush to burn, which tombstone to move) are exactly the same. It's still a little clumsy, but I can scarcely call it random! That really blew my mind!


There's actually a couple of places where things aren't where they should be (one place is missing a staircase, one place the cave is one square over). Otherwise it's mostly accurate.

quote:
I think the poor AI causes one of the game's major missteps here, though. This system fails to reach its potential in practice because the enemies are not nearly aggressive enough.


You won't think that when you're getting molested by eight Dinofols.





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[this message was edited by Amakusa on Tue 14 Oct 18:30]