Killer is Punchout - Forums

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"Killer is Punchout" , posted Wed 5 Mar 01:31post reply

I recently beat Killer is Dead. When I was out for lunch I passed by a pretty girl wearing shorts and high socks, and when I took a look the Killer is Dead gigolo meter filling up sound played in my head. When videogame sound effects start ghosting into my everyday life is when I know I've thoroughly enjoyed a game.

I feel like comparing it to Metal Gear Rising 'cause both sell themselves as bonkers ex-Capcom swording action. I like Killer is Dead's controls more though. Transitioning between weapons is smooth and the attack/block/dodge setup is quick and satisfying. Going into murdervision and cutting enemies in half also felt like a smoother execution of MGR's zandatsu.

Killer is Dead's mechanics were made in a way to eliminate 'distances', your murdervision attack sends you zipping across the screen to murder whatever it is you were looking at in a single stroke. When you dodge an enemy bullet, your counterattack sends you flying straight at them. When you're surrounded by enemies you automatically track towards the closest ones with every forward stepping swing. It's like... even though you walk around in a 3D environment, when the enemies come out it transforms into a next gen version of Punch-Out, it's all about timing the correct attack/dodge/block maneuver to your enemy's attack style.

And the first tough boss fight in the game against King David has a sequence where you have to mash attack fast enough to win the blade clash. I lost on my first two tries and was on my last continue until I realized "I... must take off my pants to win". By going pantsless my body was able to expel excess heat from button mashing faster, and so I overcame King David (who also wears no pants in-game).

It's a fun game, I spent... about 12-20 hours on it. The pacing is satisfying and the story is really vague but presented in a cool way.


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"Re(1):Killer is Punchout" , posted Wed 5 Mar 03:17post reply

I recently beat Killer is Dead.

It's funny you should bring this up since I felt almost the exact opposite, that MGR had far super combat. But this is of course a completely personal thing and a matter of opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I love the crazy design of Grasshopper games, the weirdness of some of their decision making, their flat out wonderfully fucked-up voice acting choices, and their desire to hew oddly close to old-school arcade games in both the look and the gameplay of their titles. It's just that for actual fun games Platinum has come remarkable close to what would be my fabled 'perfect game' on an astounding number of occasions.

Hopefully sometime in the not so distant future we could somehow receive the gift of a collaborative game with some Frankenstein melding of Grasshopper's weird aesthetic with Platinum's perfect-grade gameplay and control. But maybe that's too far out of reach in this imperfect world!

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"Re(2):Killer is Punchout" , posted Wed 5 Mar 08:00:post reply

Killer Is Dead feels very much like an extension of No More Heroes, what with the punch for breaking guard and the mechanics adjusted to take into account the removal of the Wii-mote.

I feel like MGSR is even more Punch-Out like simply because the enemies in it have flashes that cue the attack (just like Punch-Out!), but because the blocking mechanic in MGSR has both an active and a recovery period like a fighting game move/active parry (think Last Blade), doing the block immediately following all flashes doesn't always work. If the attack has a sufficient delay following the flash, it will hit you during the recovery period, and that recovery period isn't easily cancelled. This nuance is well-understood by the designers of the combat, with some of the bosses being set to mix attacks that need to have the block activated immediately versus ones which needs to have the block delayed slightly. Since there's no holdable defensive state, it forces the player to recognize quickly and pick the correct timing. Some attacks also cannot be blocked and must be dodged (which normally isn't much of a revolution), and which always somehow makes me think of Bald Bull and Super Macho Man, but in the context of a game where all defensive actions have a significant recovery period and so require significant commitment, it ups the intensity for the player.

I do agree that there are relatively few moves that Raiden has that zip him to an enemy. The Zandatsu state in particular is a contrast to other game's kill frenzy modes, because in those modes your reward for lots of killing is killing everything everywhere. Zandatsu rewards either timing (as a result of counters), precision (in boss fights where a forced Zandatsu is triggered by the boss) or correct positioning in the moment prior to the activation of Zandatsu. It's a different mentality.

Raiden in particular is a curious mash of great mobility (high-speed running with automatic "parkour", high speed jumps) with clumsy mobility (he often moves faster in short distances by attacking rather than by using directional movement). His basic sword has incredible power (Zandatsu being able to instantly kill enemies at full health) combined with a feeling of incredible weakness (flailing away at bosses with it often feels like it does barely anything!). The scissor he gets from Sundowner does more damage than any non-Zandatsu attack in the game, but its slowness and clumsiness makes it feel like a MonHun weapon (in the best way!). Mondo's movement is much more restricted in the play areas, what with not being able to freely jump or parkour to wherever he wants, and though most of the sword fighting in MGSR still takes place with enemies on a plane, just having that makes for a much more expansive and free feeling. Mondo's subweapons aren't bad, but they are very much subweapons: secondary things that have a particular purpose. They are still cool, and the hilarity of getting a giant drill arm from a girl as a thank you for a pleasant evening will never fade.

I really thought of Asura's Wrath once I got to the final battle of Killer Is Dead: a duel on the moon complete with the New World Symphony blasting?

[this message was edited by Spoon on Wed 5 Mar 08:05]

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"Re(2):Killer is Punchout" , posted Wed 5 Mar 08:27post reply

I recently beat Killer is Dead.

It's funny you should bring this up since I felt almost the exact opposite, that MGR had far super combat. But this is of course a completely personal thing and a matter of opinion.

I loved both games!! To me, both of them are masterpieces and I wouldn't like to be forced to choose between them...

Prior to playing KID, I was afraid I would get disappointed: it was my first Suda51 game and it looked pretty similar to the awesome MGS:R, which I had beaten not so long ago. Fortunately their mechanics were as different as their respective art styles.

MGS:R, with his frantic action pace, its hard sci-fi vibe and THE MOST AMAZING FINAL BOSS BATTLE EVER gave me the adrenaline rush I coveted. In fact, I liked it so much that I finished it twice in a row, something I rarely do nowadays.

KID got me with its oniric visuals, its charming characters and its surreal, film-noir plot instead. Its battle mechanics surely feel rougher than the MGS:R ones but, on the other hand, the combo system adds much more depth to the combat than Raiden's marrow-maiming slashes.

So in the end, I managed to enjoy two of the best action games of the past generation without feeling any sense of redundancy. I'm glad that I could appreciate both of them separately, without my mind stablishing uncalled for comparisons.

As a fun note, I should thank Suda51 for allowing me to reconcile myself with my childhood: as a teenager, I usually had recurring dreams of a beach of silver sand beneath violet skies, dimly lit by a humongous, white full moon. It seems I was not the only one!

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"Re(3):Killer is Punchout" , posted Thu 6 Mar 14:27:post reply

Spoon! That is some excellent combat analysis of MGR. I agree with nearly everything you say. MGR is an brilliant action game. One of my favorite games of last year.

Andy's analysis of KiD is also great and I agree with a lot of the points (although I could go on about how great zandatsu is all day). It also reminds me of a small frustration with Rising, though.

There are times when I would execute a perfectly timed parry and totally whiff because the enemy was out of range... and often I would know it was going to happen. When it doesn't land, the counter animation makes Raiden look like he doesn't know what he's doing... and I really shouldn't have to parry late to make the dude look better.

I'm sure they could figure out a few ways to fix this. If they do a sequel, and they really should, there's definitely some room for refinement. I want it. I want it bad.

/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Thu 6 Mar 14:30]