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| Professor 3936th Post
  
MMCafe Owner
     
|  "Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch thread" , posted Thu 29 Aug 13:23:  
New thread since the game is out now!
A few tidbits about the game.
- Online connection is a MUST if you want to customize your characters. The Campaign mode can't be played without being connected.
- Campaign mode episodes are a download from PSN. The first one currently available is 171MB, free of course.
- You have 10 points of stamina in Campaign mode. It's like a SNS game: every time you search for an enemy, you deplete a stamina point. One stamina point takes 20 minutes to recover, so that's a total of 200 minutes. Sometimes you encounter an event instead of an enemy, in which case you can recover a life or get other effects.
- Mini-spoiler: [Fuugo, Stroheim, Tonio are amonst some of the characters in the campaign mode's events.]
- There's a mandatory/automatic HDD install when you launch the game for the first time.
- There's a day 1 patch, 8MB. Haven't checked what it fixes just yet.
- Very few characters are usable from the start.
- The game is in 30fps so it's a tad little choppy.
- The game itself is really mediocre. But the interface and details are a real treat for fans. There's constantly sub-characters talking, and other nice tidbits. For example the "go to next" icon is Kouichi's face flipping through pages, and waiting for connection icon is Iggy sniffing and walking.
[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 22 Nov 20:29] |
| Replies: |
| Iggy 9641th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
     
     
     
     
     
|  "Re(1):Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch thread" , posted Thu 29 Aug 21:00
I think what bothers me the most is the lack of stages, and the semi-confirmation we won't get any more.
From a fighting game point of view, the current number is fine, more or less. Problem is the fighting game part is bad, and nobody really expected it to be any better in the first place.
But then, from a fan game point of view, it is hugely disappointing to have Hol Horse fighting in Vanilla's room or Cairo streets, or both Zeppelis from part 1&2 only fighting in areas they never saw... It just devolves the game from a good fan game to an extensive 3D model viewer and voice actors extravaganza.
I was thinking about the Capcom game on part 5, for PS2, and as bad as the game was, it did succeed in showing, in drama form, most of the scenes of the full Golden Wind. There were cinematic sequences and voice acting following the plot, and an arena for each fight, recreated from the manga to the maximum of the game's capacity.
Now, of course, the game itself was ten time worse than ASB, but I'm starting to think that as a fan game at the time, it is superior to ASB for that reason alone. I wasn't asking for a stage for each character (though that would have been nice) but the current highly detailed and limited stage selection entirely misses the point of the game: it works for a fighting game, which the game, as expected, is not.
Like a great deal of other things with the game, it shows again some huge misguided effort from a passionate but ultimately not very skilled team.
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| Pollyanna 3559th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch thread" , posted Sun 1 Sep 17:24
My opinions echo the Professor's on almost everything, but here are my impressions all the same:
-Story mode is an embarrassment-
-What's the point in the text? Without context, it's not going to tell anything to non-fans and it's not going to tell anything to fans that they don't already know. I guess it's just something to read while the game is loading? Couldn't they have put manga panels here?
-Iggy's comment about there being too few stages didn't sink in until I realized that every episode in each chapter is on the same level over and over again (with the exception of Part 6, strangely). This only makes much sense for 4.
-Some characters don't even show up in story mode (Mista, Narancia) because they don't have anyone to fight. Other chapters are kind of weird...i mean, you fight Rohan 3 times. Was he really such a major adversary!? Also, fighting the same character over and over on the same stage is just stupid and boring.
-I would've preferred a Dream Battle arcade mode that had no particular story, but inserted manga panels or something before the fights with quotes or jokes between the characters. It wouldn't have to make sense in any continuity, but it would give you an excuse to play through with everyone. Just ANYTHING.
-Thankfully, story mode is very short.
-Gameplay-
-Most importantly, the game feels good to play. It feels natural and it's a good approach to "2D in a 3D plane." It may not be a great fighting game altogether, but it doesn't feel bad when you're playing it.
-I like the "stylish" just defense system a lot.
-Stage hazards are handled strangely. You have to knock down your opponent in a "danger zone," but that doesn't cause them to get hit...it just initiates the danger, which then could hit either of you. That really doesn't make any sense to me, but since you can special taunt after a danger zone knockdown, it's still worth doing.
-Speaking of taunts, Joseph's "your next line is..." thing is ludicrously long and there's no limitation on how many times he can do it.
-Time does not stop counting down for super animations. You usually have more than enough time to finish your battles, but this still seems like an oversight.
-Everything is very easy.
-It seems like a good number of moves are too slow to be useful.
-The loading time isn't that bad unless you're just playing one round.
-Campaign Mode-
-It's cute and the character customization options are fun. I like the idea of a "living" mode that you check out a little bit every day and the stamina restrictions don't bother me, though it is a bit awkward, since there's no other decent mode to play.
-Although I like the presentation, everything takes way too long. The matches in this mode are only one round so the loading and menu time is often longer than the time spent playing the game.
-I wouldn't mind seeing modes like this in games in the future, if they're managed well, but something like the PS4's ability to go on "hold" like a portable console is going to be necessary. As-is, I could probably play 3 or more rounds of a ios game with this sort of system by the time I got to my first JoJo match. Copying the system without the speed and convenience makes it pointless.
-ETC-
-Holy crap, Johnny is cute. He turned out so good!
-I love the soundtrack as a whole, but the individual character themes are a bit hit-or-miss. Buccellatti's them in particular doesn't seem to fit his character. Diavolo, Hol Horse, Gyro and Caesar are personal favorites. I'm very glad that each character has a theme, rather than the stages.
-Despite a lot of missteps, I like the game fairly well and would recommend it to people who have reasonable expectations for it.
-I would not at all mind a sequel with mostly recycled materials packaged in a way to make up for some of the current weaknesses. As it is, it feels like a strong first step from a company that's never made a serious fighter before. Fighting games don't tend to get it right on the first try anyway, and rather than feeling like it comes up short, this game feels like it could be really worthwhile with a little work.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| Fuu
29th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(2):Re(10):Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch" , posted Tue 3 Sep 06:39:
quote:
Health by characters:
1144 エルメェス
1078 ジョナサン ツェペリ ジョセフ シーザー ワムウ 徐倫 ジャイロ
承太郎 花京院 アヴドゥル 仗助 億泰 康一 露伴 川尻
1034 ポルナレフ ホルホース 音石 ブチャラティ ミスタ ナランチャ ジョニィ
990 ディオ カーズ
968 エシディシ DIO ジョルノ ディアボロ プッチ 大統領
OK, I understand why an insane priest and a president that has plenty of clones would have lower than average health, but why is the sturdiest character not a Pillar Man, but HERMES out of all characters?
Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
Because Hermes is a grappler?
No, that's really all I can come up with. I know it's just a game, but I still find it funny that anybody can deal Kars or the Pillar Men damage just by punching them.
using HP as a "balance" tool is always strange to me, since it's something that one immediately relates to the character appearance, like how is Gouki's tiny health ever going to make sense.
In this case, I see Kira has higher health than both Dio or Kars. Sounds legit.
Hermes is top by quite a margin too.
[this message was edited by Fuu on Tue 3 Sep 06:41] |
| Pollyanna 3560th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
XBL: n/a
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Re(10):Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch" , posted Wed 4 Sep 11:19
My impression of the game has gotten worse, thanks to Campaign Mode. I actually like the mode itself, but it has to be an alternative, not the star of the show. It's practical to spend all of your stamina when you attack a boss, rendering the mode unplayable afterward. It's possible that you'll run into a boss on your first match and likely that the match will only last 20 seconds or so. After that...no more JoJo for several hours at least. No arcade mode, no survival mode, no trials, no anything but online or repeating the wretched story mode where you can't even play most of the cast. I have no idea how I didn't realize this before.
Admittedly, I'm biased here, because I couldn't really play online if I wanted, though it's not like the netcode is super amazing even if you're in Japan.
quote:
OK, I understand why an insane priest and a president that has plenty of clones would have lower than average health, but why is the sturdiest character not a Pillar Man, but HERMES out of all characters?
Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
Hermes survived long after she stopped being relevant to the story. She was evidently strangely difficult to get rid of.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| Mosquiton 1923th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(6):Re(10):Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch" , posted Wed 4 Sep 16:20
quote:
My impression of the game has gotten worse, thanks to Campaign Mode. I actually like the mode itself, but it has to be an alternative, not the star of the show. It's practical to spend all of your stamina when you attack a boss, rendering the mode unplayable afterward. It's possible that you'll run into a boss on your first match and likely that the match will only last 20 seconds or so. After that...no more JoJo for several hours at least. No arcade mode, no survival mode, no trials, no anything but online or repeating the wretched story mode where you can't even play most of the cast. I have no idea how I didn't realize this before.
I feel your pain, Polly. My friend actually just got his copy today (he missed the Saturday delivery and yesterday was a holiday of course)... I've been trying hard to resist telling him that the game might have some serious problems. I just don't have the heart to do it.
This does actually sound like shitty and annoying design, though. I probably won't play too much of the game myself, although I plan to troll with Kakyoin a bit after work tomorrow in versus mode, but I feel righteous indignation on behalf of my friends.
/ / /
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| Professor 3891th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(7):Re(10):Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch" , posted Wed 4 Sep 19:06:
quote:
My impression of the game has gotten worse, thanks to Campaign Mode.
Campaign mode is the main reason why everyone is bothered about the game even in Japan. It's the only way you can get customization items in the game, except you need to beat the bosses to get the better customizations like the extra costumes.
It can be a headache for some popular characters like Jotaro, whose Campaign HP is set pretty high that you need to fight him 30 times to beat him and hopefully get his costume. Unfortunately, you only have up to 10 points of stamina to make moves, so even if you're lucky enough to encounter him you're still not going to beat him in one try under normal circumstances.
There was a x 4 stamina bonus during this past weekend which helped a lot. I'm not sure if it was a one-time only thing by Namco Bandai to try and ease the negative user reviews on launch, but if they don't do this periodically every now and then, it'll be quite a headache to the players.
Make no mistake, Jojo ASB is a great game, possibly the best when it comes as a "graphical" fighter for the Jojo series. It's just that the 1P modes don't seem to be budgeted anywhere as much as its renderings and voice actor usages. The game balance is at odds, though it seems like things easily fixable with a patch. I can write about it if anyone's actually interested.
[this message was edited by Professor on Wed 4 Sep 20:36] |
| Pollyanna 3561th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Re(10):Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch" , posted Thu 5 Sep 02:44
quote:
This does actually sound like shitty and annoying design, though. I probably won't play too much of the game myself, although I plan to troll with Kakyoin a bit after work tomorrow in versus mode, but I feel righteous indignation on behalf of my friends.
You're lucky to have people to play with! If I can play the game with my friends, then the frustrations of not being able to play by myself will be relieved considerably. Fighting games aren't meant to be played alone, anyway.
quote:
Why is there a stamina system? Can you pay money to get more stamina?
Yes. Sadly, that is the idea. Again, Campaign Mode itself is fine with me and I don't mind that things are intentionally unlocked at a slower pace, but if they're setting it up for people to play the game for a long time, then they'll need to support it accordingly. Not that I expect this, but Campaign Mode alongside some sort of arcade mode and balance/cast updates would make for a very good game. As it stands, this is turning into one of those things that makes me bite my tongue when people trash talk Japanese games.
quote:
The game balance is at odds, though it seems like things easily fixable with a patch. I can write about it if anyone's actually interested.
I've seen a lot of crazy combo stuff, but I'm interested in which characters are functionally useful outside of that. I haven't had the fortune to play against anyone else yet and it seems like a lot of moves are designed to be "tricky"...a concept that's meaningless to a computer opponent.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| Professor 3892th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(9):Re(10):Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch" , posted Thu 5 Sep 05:08:
quote:
Why is there a stamina system? Can you pay money to get more stamina?
Hokutoandy: Campaign mode plays like an F2P game on a smartphone, and that's why it has a stamina/energy system. The screenshots here should explain things a bit-- the battery is the stamina bar and you can recover/stock up to 10 stamina points. And yes, you can pay money to recover instead of waiting, 30 yen(approx 30 cents) per stamina point.
Ok, so now about the gameplay. There's been plenty of infinite combo videos going around but let's put that aside for now since 1/they're likely to get patched, and 2/even as of now they're pretty irrelevant because you can't really do them online.
In normal fighting games, the gameplay revolves around various rocks-paper-scissors mechanics and reading the opponent's bad habits. In JojoASB though, there's two options that are so powerful that they dominate the decision making in almost all situations. Those two options are--
1- Jumping
Jumping is an extremely safe tactic in this game; not only can you avoid combos unless faced with specific characters that have good air combos, the jumps start off so fast that your opponent can't hit you standing in point blank range, or even if you jump from a wakeup. Their attack will whiff and they'll get punished. Because of that, everyone is constantly jumping.
2- Just Defence
By mashing   over and over, you can neutralize the opponent with a parry if they ever attack you. It covers against all moves, even jump attacks. The only thing it's weak against is throws, but throws do very little damage for a very huge risk-- if you read a throw coming and you guess correctly with a jump, you'll be rewarded with a full combo.
Hence, people are usually jumping or mashing their controllers when they come into close combat.
I'm not reading the various Jojo forums to see which characters are the most broken, but putting aside infinites, I think the potential strong chracters for the time being are Joseph, Dio, Diavolo, and Johnny.
Joseph's combos are relatively stable even with lag, and his crossup is extremely good. What's more, he has powerful anti-airs as well as counters, and he has various methods to make an opportunity to charge up his meter. His   S counter is particularly good because not only does it have fast startup, it also binds the opponent into a vulnerable position for a full combo on the ground, even if they were attacking from the air.
Dio and Diavolo can escape out of combos, which can be devastating, especially under laggy circumstances. Gyro and Johnny can't be thrown when they're on their horses, so together with the aforementioned Just Defence technique, theoretically they can be invincible (I haven't met anyone that good though, yet). Johnny is particularly worthwhile to mention because he becomes extremely hard to hit when he's off his horse. Lots of combos can whiff him, meanwhile his attacks won't.
[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 5 Sep 06:00] |
| Pollyanna 3564th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Re(10):Jojo ASB thread 2 - Post launch" , posted Thu 5 Sep 11:57:
EDIT: Stamina promo, Fuugo and rebalance.
quote:
..... While in reality you where attacked by King Crimson - Nico and you only came to when that write up was already done.
Speaking of that video (which has some semi decent level footage), pretty much the true highlight of it was that Shigechi player at the end, small characters seem pretty hard to deal with (I can only imagine how Iggy will be).
Ahhh, so great to see some decent matches. And thanks for the write-up, Professor. Again, having not played other people, I'm eager to learn what the "real" game is like.
I was hoping that Iggy's hitbox would be related to his stand (when it was out) and that he'd be useless enough without it that it would balance out. However, when we have Dio and Diavolo teleporting out of combos, it feels like accuracy to the source material trumps common sense.
quote:
Polly, look for me online around this weekend if you'd like a match or two (not that I'm any good). I just got the game today and should have time to play by... Sunday? I have some sense that you're on the US west coast like me, so it may be we can even get a decent network connection.
If I don't catch you this weekend, I hope I can catch you sooner or later, at least to try it out. I'm not any good, myself, having never played another human being, so we'll be a wonderful match.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Thu 5 Sep 14:27] |
| karasu99 1205th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(5):Balance Update! Free Fuugo! Stamina x 4" , posted Mon 9 Sep 06:33
I've just finished Story mode, and... while I appreciate the effort that was clearly put into the game, story mode stinks. I understand that there were tough choices that had to be made given that only so many characters made it into the game, but... like three matches against Hol Horse in part 3, three against Rohan in part 4, and a flatly stupid number of episodes (what-- 3?) in part 5 make it difficult to stomach. I would have preferred the kind of episodic-minigame-ish story mode that was in the PS1 port of the Capcom game.
Ok, granted, I don't know what I expected, but either way, it's pretty bad. I suppose on the bright side you don't have those 'your ally has gone crazy! you have to fight them!' bits like some fighting games have to justify matches between friends.
One high point though is that if you've got the Kira code and you've bought Shigechi, you'll get story mode episodes for the, Unfortunately they don't play in sequence-- you've got to go bck and play them after the fact.
The fighting game itself is pretty great though! I'm impressed by just how complex they made a few of the characters' move sets (Pucci in particular). I've been having a great time playing as the non-stand users, oddly enough.
Here's hoping there's plenty of DLC characters released! Going by the spaces on the select screen there's room for what, 4 more in addition to Baoh and Iggy? Here's hoping LisaLisa, Santana, and Vanilla Ice make the cut (not holding my breath).
www.secret-arts.com
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| Iggy 9650th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Balance Update! Free Fuugo! Stamina x 4" , posted Mon 9 Sep 19:35
quote:
Here's hoping there's plenty of DLC characters released! Going by the spaces on the select screen there's room for what, 4 more in addition to Baoh and Iggy? Here's hoping LisaLisa, Santana, and Vanilla Ice make the cut (not holding my breath).
I think the data miners have found Vanilla, Annasui, Lisalisa, Old Joseph, and Baoh, on top of Iggy and Fugo.
Have I read something about Risotto? It may just be wishful thinking.
The game is the most unpleasant thing I have played in a while. The fighting is much, much better than anything I would have dreamed of, I could even imagine that if it gets patched enough it would actually become a great fighting game (except for the 30 FPS and the netcode; patches can't do everything).
But everything around the fighting: the menus, the story mode, the esthetics and rythm of the campaign, are so deliberately rude! It feels like you have to pay and work to be allowed to be graced by the game you have payed good bucks for. Social games esthetics are nothing less than insulting (the D'arby "mini game").
But then, on the other hand, I noticed that the only DLC featured in the game are the characters (which, 300 yens for Shigechi and Iggy, are probably the cheapest in any fighting game I can think of, and they are original assets, not head swaps like Kira) and the stupid social game things that have become wholly irrelevant after the recent update.
I was expecting every single outfit, pose or famous quote to come with a price tag I would have happily paid. Hell, I would have paid 300 yens for some of the most famous outfits, but I get a full character for that price? And everything else is for free and unlockable? Why is the game so mean, and then suddenly so nice where it matters? I'm so confused.
It's like I'm in an abusive relationship with a husband that has been abused in his youth and only knows how to show love by throwing dinnerware, and then buys me a car to apologize.
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| karasu99 1206th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(7):Balance Update! Free Fuugo! Stamina x 4" , posted Tue 10 Sep 01:02
quote:
Here's hoping there's plenty of DLC characters released! Going by the spaces on the select screen there's room for what, 4 more in addition to Baoh and Iggy? Here's hoping LisaLisa, Santana, and Vanilla Ice make the cut (not holding my breath).
I think the data miners have found Vanilla, Annasui, Lisalisa, Old Joseph, and Baoh, on top of Iggy and Fugo.
Have I read something about Risotto? It may just be wishful thinking.
That would be a great outcome! Vanilla's absence in the game is pretty puzzling to start with, and part 6 could use at least one more playable character. Risotto (if true) would be pretty great as well!
quote:
The game is the most unpleasant thing I have played in a while. The fighting is much, much better than anything I would have dreamed of, I could even imagine that if it gets patched enough it would actually become a great fighting game (except for the 30 FPS and the netcode; patches can't do everything).
But everything around the fighting: the menus, the story mode, the esthetics and rythm of the campaign, are so deliberately rude! It feels like you have to pay and work to be allowed to be graced by the game you have payed good bucks for. Social games esthetics are nothing less than insulting (the D'arby "mini game").
I agree on all counts! The fighting game itself is much more fun than I expected, and story mode isn't so much bad as it is weak. But the overall aesthetic outside the fighting game parts is shockingly awful, given that CC2 is a bit renowned for that kind of thing-- the Naruto games being a prime example. Yeah, I don't even want to play Campaign at all it stinks so bad!
www.secret-arts.com
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| Toxico 5838th Post
PSN: Toxic-Baron
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Patch up." , posted Tue 10 Sep 10:50:
Diavolo's infinite is removed.
Corner infinites have been removed as well.... by modifying the gravity near the wall, meaning that pretty much all combos are lost near the wall. And notice that is near the wall, not only "with the enemy against the wall", this retarded measure certainly makes the game more boring and screw ups with gameplay at so many levels it's not even funny.
Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if ground infinites of attack -> fireball -> attack are still in.
Jumps have been slowed down, while that stopped the wakeup jump tactic, that also killed a bunch of combos and strategies where you have your stand hit and you jump on their own (rip Kira & Josuke), instant overheads are also gone.
The current meme is "patch = だが断る"
quote:
Have I read something about Risotto? It may just be wishful thinking.
Wasn't that us speaking about him here nonstop on the past thread?
Anyway, interesting things :
- down, down + all 3 atk on Jonathan uses Final Ripple and after KOed you come back to life with red health (atk, defense boost) but lock out your HH gauge
- qcb/214 + all 3 atk for Valentine with MAX HH gauge swaps himself out for another Valentine with full health. Locks out HH gauge.
- While Giorno's Gold Experience Requiem is out, it is immune to Made in Heaven's slowdown effect.
- Kawajiri can revert Made in Heaven or C-Moon to White Snake with Bites the Dust. Also if he had disk taken out they are returned to him.... "Back to the start of the day", indeed.
さっきの感じならあと100発はもつ‥‥と思うぜ
Update 24 as of 03/04/12. // 104 personajes traducidos
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Last update : Chapter 25 as of 31/08/12
[this message was edited by Toxico on Tue 10 Sep 13:38] |
| Professor 3899th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(1):Patch up." , posted Tue 10 Sep 15:33:
I've tried the game a bit after the patch and it's not as bad as initial reports puts it to be, but it's not that good either. Given that it was done in only 2 weeks though, it was sort of expected.
Reports have been saying that CyberConnect2 completely botched the system so that juggles can't be done anymore, but that doesn't seem to be the case. They've gotten a lot more harder to do with a weird gravity pull and it seems to incease around the edge of the stages as Toxico mentioned.
The run speed and sway has been increased in this patch so the zoning game has gotten pretty trivial compared to before. I have no idea why the developers did that.
The instant jumps have been fixed but it's something that should've come together with improved netcode. Without that, it'll be impossible to play against wakeups due to lag. Also, jump attacks can't be done on the way up, probably as an unintentional byproduct of fixing the instant jumps. This means air-to-airs has been extremely restricted. Another thing, the jumps have more recovery time on landing than before, and it hasn't been well adjusted. Characters that need to jump in with their middle attack are going to have problems.
The patch is already getting a lot of complaints and I think it may have worsened things for the game than make it better. The next update--which will fortunately come with a netcode fix, won't be coming out for another month. With very little being said from CyberConnect2, the future of the game is looking bleak to the eyes of the public. President Matsuyama hasn't written a word on Twitter since 9/4. Given how much effort his staff put into the game, I dearly hope things will rise and shine.
[this message was edited by Professor on Tue 10 Sep 19:49] |
| Iggy 9653th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Patch note & next patch details" , posted Wed 11 Sep 21:56
Well, that's nice, they're definitely learning:
Patch 1.02 notes
They even have plans for the next one:
Patch 1.03.
It seems they will change the damage of the throws and tweak the stylish moves, which is necessary.
Let's hope it will also revert all the stupid changes of 1.02 (gravity change, HHA animation shortening for Jolyne, phantom jumps...)
But to be honest, some of the things in 1.03 also seem quite scary. Changes in characters HP? Did anyone complain about that? Why nerf Easy Beat if it's the only thing you can reasonably do online, and some characters can't even use their because it doesn't connect?
And WTF about "we'll fix the online icon to show accurate connection". Are they going to keep the code as it is, and only change the indicator to say "your opponent has crappy connection, find a better one"?
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| Iggy 9654th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Nail in the coffin" , posted Thu 12 Sep 08:35
Suddenly a lot of mysteries found out their own common answer.
Graphinica
【ジョジョの奇妙な冒険 オールスターバトル】
© 荒木飛呂彦＆LUCKY LAND COMMUNICATIONS／集英社
©2013 NBGI
キャラクターデザイン / 色彩設計 / 特効 / 絵コンテ / キャラクターモデリング / 3Dモーション
Basically, the only things that everyone agree are great (design, color, sketches, 3D models, animations) were outsourced to Graphinica.
The rest falls down to CC2: the story mode, the campaign social game, the online... All thanks to CC2. I wouldn't be surprised if the music was also outsourced as that's pretty common.
That explains why so many elements seem at odd with the rest in term of visual design (menus, artworks, down to the butchering of animations that lead to Jolyne's current HHA).
It also means that whatever DLC character remaining are already done at Graphinica, and that won't go any further.
All the parts that were so full of love for the source material were actually outsourced...
き…切れた
ぼくの体の中で なにかが切れた…決定的ななにかが……！
I'm playing with Iggy tonight and then I'm done with this game and this company.
ON THE OTHER HAND, we did discover a bunch of very talented people. They have worked on Asura's Wrath animation or Penguin Drum's 3D effects amongst dozen of great and mundane things... But more importantly, they're helping on GGXrd (or at least on the PV... but that has to mean they're involved in the actual game, isn't it?).
GUILTY GEAR Xrd –SIGN-
絵コンテ／演出／作画／
2Dデザイン／撮影／音響／
編集
Let's keep an eye on them and forget everything about this regrettable incident.
And I mean EVERYTHING.
I'm still looking forward for Graphinica's Iggy though.
|
| Iggy 9660th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Old farts and CPR" , posted Thu 26 Sep 19:35
So, Lisalisa and Joseph have been released.
I just played a few minutes with them, and they are really nice, maybe my favorite DLC characters after Iggy.
Lisalisa has a system that looks like KOF's Angel's Unchain Combo. Not sure how efficient that is (especially with the retarded Just Defense system) but she feels very good, and looks and sounds even better.
BIG DISAPPOINTMENT however: her alternate costume is NOT her bath towel. BOOOOOOOOOH.
Old Joseph is alright. Good reach, an interesting move where he pours tar on the ground that can act as a trap or a counter move (the tar falls down even if Joseph is hit during the startup, like Iggy's fake DIO). He has his stand but can also do the hamon breathing... he seems quite capable. He doesn't sound too bad either, though I'm afraid it might be a bit awkward in the anime if the voice actor has to force his "old guy" voice for the whole season...
They also copied a few animations from the Capcom game (the stiff walking for example), which would be shameless if the base material wasn't so good to begin with. Plus, the moves are very different, so that's good too.
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| Nekros 575th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(1):Old farts and CPR" , posted Thu 26 Sep 19:51:
quote:
So, Lisalisa and Joseph have been released.
I just played a few minutes with them, and they are really nice, maybe my favorite DLC characters after Iggy.
Lisalisa has a system that looks like KOF's Angel's Unchain Combo. Not sure how efficient that is (especially with the retarded Just Defense system) but she feels very good, and looks and sounds even better.
BIG DISAPPOINTMENT however: her alternate costume is NOT her bath towel. BOOOOOOOOOH.
Old Joseph is alright. Good reach, an interesting move where he pours tar on the ground that can act as a trap or a counter move (the tar falls down even if Joseph is hit during the startup, like Iggy's fake DIO). He has his stand but can also do the hamon breathing... he seems quite capable. He doesn't sound too bad either, though I'm afraid it might be a bit awkward in the anime if the voice actor has to force his "old guy" voice for the whole season...
They also copied a few animations from the Capcom game (the stiff walking for example), which would be shameless if the base material wasn't so good to begin with. Plus, the moves are very different, so that's good too.
Sounds cool, game's roster brings fanservice to a whole new level.
How many DLC were (or planned to be) released?
I wonder if they include all on the disc for the western release or it will end in tons of day1 DLCs.
Still, no Diego or Weather Report. Sad.
[this message was edited by Nekros on Thu 26 Sep 19:53] |
| Iggy 9667th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):JoJo Musou rumours?" , posted Mon 7 Oct 00:32
quote:
Character modelling aside, it can't be worse than CC2's take on the series...
Now that's unfair. There is a lot to criticize in ASB, especially the insanely high expectations the producer had set up before the release that came back like a barbed-wire boomerang in his face, but the game could be far, far worse.
On the other hand, it took Kôei 2 games to get the simple concept "Ken punching a lot of mobs that just stand there waiting to be killed" right ... since they'd have to be much more creative for the mano a mano nature of Jojo, the only way the game could turn right would be if was 100% outsourced to, I don't know, Craft&Meister or something.
Now that the disappointment has passed and I can look back to ASB with a more serene mind, it looks more and more like what I expected it to end up being one year ago, when we first saw Joseph and Wamuu at the TGS 2012 and before the crazy marketing plan impaired my judgement: a fun but deeply broken fighting game with characters I love dutifully represented and fun to move around the screen. And it has many more characters than I expected then!
I really don't expect anything close to that from Kôei Tecmo, really. Least bad case scenario: they got the licence for the part 3 anime and will make a game with Jôtarô punching hordes of zombies created by DIO or Enya, with the same quality expectations as the Phantom Blood game.
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| Iggy 9673th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Unbelievably good news" , posted Sat 12 Oct 05:36:
Full patchnotes
I won't be able to play until next week, but the opinion is overwhelmingly... positive.
Basically, every bad thing the last patch brought has been erased. The gravity seems back to normal, the botchered animations are fixed, the jump attacks are back... AND they fixed the throws (now deal between 90 damage (Iggy) and 150 (Okuyasu)), maybe too much, but it's still a huge improvement. AND they fixed DIOvolo (their bursts require 2/1.5 jauges). AND they added new stuff (cancellable 2H which allows several characters to cancel 2H into stuff, like their GHA or the unblockable move for Okuyasu or Kawajiri, which is a welcome buff; or even a new type of Roman Cancel for stand users that allows them, for 1 jauge, to cancel any move while stand off into stand on). AND they slightly nerfed the stylish moves by nerfing the guard jauge (750=>500 and slower to recover in several cases) and making it slightly more expensive (25%=>30%). It might still be too strong, but at least they didn't make it useless which is a huge relief. AND they didn't patch out the fun combos based around the provocation force restand: they just made them more difficult to do or to loop. AND they didn't do some of the stupid things they annonced in the preliminary notes, like nerfing the EB.
The general opinion except amongst trolls is that it is, by far, the best version of the game. It might not be balanced at all (Whamu is probably far too strong, and Rohan and Otoishi seem to have been nerfed, which is hilarious), but at least it's more fun to play and has much more variety in what the characters can do.
AND it looks like they are listening to what people who actually play the game think, AND they look like they want to improve their game instead of just running away with the money.
And.... there is a december update centered around individual character adjustments.
I wasn't expecting half of all that. Wow.
(The online is still crap, btw)
[this message was edited by Iggy on Sat 12 Oct 05:50] |
| Iggy 9675th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Kimosexy" , posted Fri 25 Oct 09:25
This game will have been a roller-coaster of emotions until the very end: Annasui is unusual (a kind of combo-chart character, where each move exists to be fed to another move) but nothing really works well together, and the damage output is abysmal. Worse: it's Annasui. I would trade him for Weather in a heartbeat.
Vanilla is surprisingly OK, on the other hand. As a representation of the manga, I think he's much better than Capcom's Vanilla. His S button is strange, as he's not really able to fight in his stand, just bubble around the screen. But S is also used as a blood drain move, like Dio. All in all, I find him fun to play... at least against the CPU, since like all unblockable characters (Okuyasu or Kawajiri), he's useless against a human opponent who knows how to stylish move.
As for the clothes in the update, we're reaching the bottom of the barrel. Giorno with a slightly different print, DIO identical except with a cape, Okuyasu in a t-shirt... I must admit BOSS-Diavolo was unexpected and a very good surprise, though. And Shadow DIO is as cool as ever.
I really wonder what the last campaign will bring... several important outfits miss (I don't think we've had Jôtarô part 4 or 6 yet ?), but not enough for a full campaign. And there is very little hope for Lisalisa's bath outfit, Annasui's female version and dwarf Valentine...
Ah well. There's probably plenty more random outfits for Jolyne and Rohan.
Apparently, the "all characters for 300 yens" sales will end early december. I suppose Baoh and the character patch will come around that time? The game is more or less already dead anyway, so they can take all the time they want.
|
| Iggy 9685th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):Ver 1.04 URRRYYYYYY!" , posted Thu 28 Nov 22:36
quote:
 
jojoasb_ver104_20131128.pdf
This is... a brand new game. So much has changed I can't even imagine how the game will would have looked like in a few weeks if many people were still playing it. The Stylish Move is now a proper parry and divided into up and low! That's huge. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the game has many fast overheads, so I suppose low SM is still the best option...?
One thing is certain: balance has gone through the window. Valentine and Kawajiri barely have anything usable now. Iggy's damage have been nerfed to oblivion, while Hol Horse seems stronger than ever.
But everyone seems to have received more things to do, so even if half of the characters end up broken in one way or another at least they should end up more fun to play during casual sessions.
For example, maybe the pillar men are finally going to be able to use their modes? And who know what possibilities it's going to open? Lisa seems much more usable, Ceasar is going to even more of a pain than he is now, Jonathan seems to be hitting like a truck, Joseph's counters look really entertaining... Otoishi seems like a totally different character.
Bucca seems to have been well buffed, neither too strong or weak. His strong 閉じろジッパーーッ！！ being throw cancellable is going to create some amusing traps.
Johnny players' reaction to the patch:"本当に…本当に…なんて遠い回り道…ありがとう…それしか言う言葉が見つからない… ".
It's far too late to save the game in Japan, but the westerners who will try it in this state (yes, all 10 of them) will have a mighty fun product.
If we get a sequel via the new TV series (I wonder if the VA change means it's going to be difficult?), the team at least seems to have gained some much needed skills on how to make a serious fighting game.
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| Toxico 5912th Post
PSN: Toxic-Baron
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| ".... So unfair.... HEEEYYYYYY" , posted Fri 16 May 09:16:
So, apparently the "1.04" version for the US release has some rebalancing here and there, but not as radical as the stuff from 1.03 to 1.04. The most relevant thing so far seems to be that campaing energy regenerates every 2 minutes instead of 5. Currently, details are being recorded here
That, along with the newly added arcade mode, make it so that we are having people dreaming about a future more polished ver 1.05 for every region.
Speaking of, Iggy-tan, omochikaeri
Speaking of, I would like an "anime voice" pack for the characters of part 3, but it would be useless to have it before knowing every change that they are going to make in the future. (I doubt Devo will be Heihachi again)
さっきの感じならあと100発はもつ‥‥と思うぜ
Update 24 as of 03/04/12. // 104 personajes traducidos
Now sponsoring : video game analogies (ES)
Last update : Chapter 25 as of 31/08/12
[this message was edited by Toxico on Fri 16 May 20:03] |
| Toxico 5912th Post
PSN: Toxic-Baron
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):.... So unfair.... HEEEYYYYYY" , posted Fri 16 May 20:03:
quote:
In the end, is there any part 3 character from ASB that has the same voice actor as the anime?
I really wonder if we'll get an ASB2, or if the backlash was so severe they'll make a different game to ride on the success of the anime, from a different team.
Hmmm, if they are fuelled by international success (the game currently seems to be very well thought of); we might see some further support in some ways.
I think I recall abut CC2 stating that they "over did it" with the expenses, and I figure that they wouldn't want to think of another game (like what anime studio do, where they a milk series for a couple of years before going for the sequel); world wide release might boost earnings enough to think positively... probably.
About the anime vs ASB, from the top of my head, right now the only characters that have appeared on both are Enya, Dio, Jotaro, Noriaki, Benimaru, Heihachi & the fortune teller. From that lot, only Dio and Jotaro have retained the same voices..... I'm secretly praying for the D'arbies to be keep as they are. Yamazaki is surprisingly a cool sounding homosexual elitist gambler.
edit : Roughly 10 hours after plugging the game, I'm at more or less 70% trophies and I might get platinium before I need to go to work  , right now I'm mostly waiting for the Forever fight.
さっきの感じならあと100発はもつ‥‥と思うぜ
Update 24 as of 03/04/12. // 104 personajes traducidos
Now sponsoring : video game analogies (ES)
Last update : Chapter 25 as of 31/08/12
[this message was edited by Toxico on Fri 16 May 20:05] |
| Toxico 5912th Post
PSN: Toxic-Baron
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):.... So unfair.... HEEEYYYYYY" , posted Mon 26 May 09:25
So, Devo the cursed was changed to Soul Sacrifice. Furthermore his VA is no longer Heihachi Dwarf, but rather Shouto Kashii.
... Since the sponsor is the same, I had the vague expectation that that All Star Battle cast would be majorly reprised in the anime; but once you think things more deeply, it's easy to realized that the guy acting as the general sound director or whatever it's called is probably different even if the sponsor happens to be the same (two different medias, two completely different directors, naturally).
Also, speaking of "thinking about it", I was arguing with a friend how odd it was that ASB was updated for the US version, but the JP version was left to rot... And we could make some sense of it, if the character changes for the US version are actually what they intend to apply to the sequel, that would give some sense to the "extra work" that they are doing right now.
...... Speaking of, what's my true reason for posting? there it can only be one
さっきの感じならあと100発はもつ‥‥と思うぜ
Update 24 as of 03/04/12. // 104 personajes traducidos
Now sponsoring : video game analogies (ES)
Last update : Chapter 25 as of 31/08/12
|
| Just a Person 1733th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):Jojo Pt.4 Anime announced!" , posted Thu 24 Mar 03:57
quote:
Since the part 4 is one of the longest, I guess CC2 will (unfortunately) have the time to release a 3rd game after the end of the anime... and before they announce the part 5 anime.
If they do an anime of part 5, that is. It's probably the most violent... Not sure how most fights will fly on TV (Rizotto of course, but even Buccellati, Illuzzo, Squallo, Sale... more than half of the fights are borderline gore).
What would be the point of adapting parts 1-4 and leave part 5 out? Some of the violence could be toned down in the anime, if necessary. Anyway, the previous parts also had their share of gory scenes.
Now, supposing that all parts of JoJo's Bizarre Adventures will get their anime adaptations, I wonder if Araki will manage to finish part 8 by the time SBR's adaptation is finished...
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Iggy 10191th Post
Star Platinum Carpet- S.P.W. Board Master
| "Re(3):ｷﾀ━(ﾟ∀" , posted Mon 4 Apr 19:34
I agree with Jotaro not being very likable, but I think he has a clear role that he's handling pretty well (and the supporting cast is created from the ground up to balance his drab personality: Polnaref, for example, would be transparent if he had been a support character in part 2 next to Young Joseph).
Araki thought about breaking his manga in 3 parts from the beginning. Therefore, the basic plan he had was "Dio will come back in part 3" and "the three heroes will be very different from each other while retaining the same heroic core". When you put Jonathan, Joseph and Jotaro next to each other, I think he pulled it out very well. Of course, he then went on with the series.
I have the feeling each subsequent character was created as an antithesis from the previous one: cheerful, heroic and in-your-face Josuke => discrete, reserved, calculating, and not entirely good Giorno (whose main strength is less his stand than his shrewd personality)=> Jolyne, very determined, reliable and impulsive (always following her heart over everything else) and a good person at heart=> Johnny, almost powerless, that slowly overcame his past and his body's limitations by growing into all sorts of shades of grey=> someone without any past nor body.
Season 4 is fantastic, but it takes a while to grow. I personally like Season 5 better, because there's not a single volume wasted. Season 4 could have done with 4 volumes less at the beginning, I think. But when it picks up, it has some of the strongest moments of the entire series.
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| Just a Person 1738th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):ｷﾀ━(ﾟ∀" , posted Wed 6 Apr 05:57
quote:
I agree with Jotaro not being very likable, but I think he has a clear role that he's handling pretty well (and the supporting cast is created from the ground up to balance his drab personality: Polnaref, for example, would be transparent if he had been a support character in part 2 next to Young Joseph).
Araki thought about breaking his manga in 3 parts from the beginning. Therefore, the basic plan he had was "Dio will come back in part 3" and "the three heroes will be very different from each other while retaining the same heroic core". When you put Jonathan, Joseph and Jotaro next to each other, I think he pulled it out very well. Of course, he then went on with the series.
I have the feeling each subsequent character was created as an antithesis from the previous one: cheerful, heroic and in-your-face Josuke => discrete, reserved, calculating, and not entirely good Giorno (whose main strength is less his stand than his shrewd personality)=> Jolyne, very determined, reliable and impulsive (always following her heart over everything else) and a good person at heart=> Johnny, almost powerless, that slowly overcame his past and his body's limitations by growing into all sorts of shades of grey=> someone without any past nor body.
That's a very interesting analysis, Iggy. And it makes complete sense.
By the way, since you mentioned Seasons 4 and 5, can you give your opinions on Seasons 6, 7 and what little we have of 8 so far? I'm not very familiar with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, but I love how it seems that each season (or part, or however we name them) has a distinctive personality, even if some concepts remain throughout the series.
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Iggy 10194th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P Requiem
| "Re(5):ｷﾀ━(ﾟ∀" , posted Wed 6 Apr 20:07:
Stone Ocean is by far the worst out of all 8 parts. The few good elements or moments are drowned in a sea of stupidity and self-contradicting nonsense. It's also the worst period of the manga art-wise: pages and pages of empty backgrounds and drab surroundings. It doesn't help that it came just after an impressive streak of the 25 strongest volumes of the series (second half of part 4 + all part 5): the downfall was violent, and for a long time I was being delusional about it. I couldn't believe a manga could fall from great to trash so fast, but it really did.
The worst thing is that Jolyne might be my favourite Jojo, but she's wasted on this awful series.
SBR is not great, but the standards for the series have plummeted so hard during SO that it ends up bearable. It's far too long and has many boring streaks and questionable logic, but if you swallow early on the bitter pill of "OK, it's the mummy of JC, move along", it becomes bearable. The strange double-hero casting with almost no support is also a nice change.
I have nothing good to say about Jojolion at the moment. As a series, it's a mystery scenario, so it will live or die by its conclusion: if the mystery ends up being clever and interesting, it may be a good series, if not it would have been a total waste of time.
Because of the emphasis on mystery, it is also the first season except part 4 that is not a journey with a clear goal, and unfortunately most of the 100s of volumes have been about exciting incidents that moved the general plot forward, while the general plot itself remained a weak excuse for more interesting one-shot enemies (it's the exact of opposite of, say, Attack on Titan). What that means for Jojolion is that the characters often appear aimless, ending up in trouble by chance, for no good reason, and the quality of the fights being quite low doesn't help.
The most surprising element of Jojolion, however, is that it has introduced so far a grand total of zero likable characters. Most of the core cast, and most of the new characters that keep on popping, are actively unlikable, and there are very marked and strong efforts by the author to make them annoying, despicable or repulsive (Yasuho might be the only saving grace of the series). In any other series, it would be a big criticism, but in the bizarre adventure of Jojo, it could also appear as the most bizarre element of part 8, hence thematically defensible. I would just like a confirmation that Araki still remembers how to write likable characters once in a while...
[this message was edited by Iggy on Thu 7 Apr 03:39] |
| Just a Person 1739th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(8):ｷﾀ━(ﾟ∀" , posted Thu 7 Apr 04:36
quote:
* Stone Ocean ;) That's why I should be working instead of posting here.
Wait, no, it's the opposite.
Aaaaaaah.
Heh, don't worry, we could understand you meant Stone Ocean. And thanks for the detailed insight on the series!
So Stone Ocean is the weakest part? That's sad; although I never read it, the arts and general descriptions of Jolyne, Pucci and FF (I guess that's the name of the plankton girl, right?) made it seem very interesting.
And the mysteries in JoJolion also keep me intrigued (again, even though I'm not even reading the manga)... it's kinda frustrating that it may take several years before this season is finished.
Now, the real sad part is, this series probably won't ever be published in my country (mangas with huge stories have no chance in our comic book market, unless they're named Naruto, One Piece or Monica Teen - and except for the latter, I'm not even sure that the others sell that well, despite having a considerable fanbase... what JJBA doesn't have here, sadly).
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
|
| Spoon 3306th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):ｷﾀ━(ﾟ∀" , posted Thu 7 Apr 05:16
For all of the dullness and stupidity that SBR often has, it at least marked the return of backgrounds. It generally looks good, too.
Having the Jojo of SBR be really weak was an interesting change, but Johnny is weak with a boring super power, and it's to the point where he often doesn't do anything interesting. This is as opposed to other "weak" Jojo characters needing to be full of cunning and tricks in order to win. I liked that SBR's head villain had a power so overwhelming that it kept you thinking "how will they overcome this? He's so menacing, and so powerful, and so determined!" in addition to having a very clear goal. As cool as the idea of Johnny's ultimate power is, it winds up feeling for me like the bad sort of deus ex machina. I don't even know if that's factually accurate with the story at this point, it's just the impression that has remained with me these years later.
As for Stone Ocean, part of me will sarcastically say,
"Don't you see? Ever panel with a blank background in Stone Ocean is meant to portray the characters as if they were in a white-backdropped fashion shoot! You just don't understand the genius of it!"
But that part of me just enjoys making insane rationalizations for any given thing.
In conclusion, I agree that Jolyne is a really cool Jojo.
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| Iggy 10196th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P Requiem
| "Re(7):ｷﾀ━(ﾟ∀" , posted Thu 7 Apr 22:46:
quote:
Having the Jojo of SBR be really weak was an interesting change, but Johnny is weak with a boring super power, and it's to the point where he often doesn't do anything interesting. This is as opposed to other "weak" Jojo characters needing to be full of cunning and tricks in order to win. I liked that SBR's head villain had a power so overwhelming that it kept you thinking "how will they overcome this? He's so menacing, and so powerful, and so determined!" in addition to having a very clear goal. As cool as the idea of Johnny's ultimate power is, it winds up feeling for me like the bad sort of deus ex machina. I don't even know if that's factually accurate with the story at this point, it's just the impression that has remained with me these years later.
I don't like Johnny, but I like the idea behind him and how he was intended. I like that he was not necessary made to be likable.
He was surprisingly well thought for a Jojo protagonist: physically weak (to the point he couldn't walk), but also mentally weak (because of his father and brother, and I think he's shown as indulging on success when he had it) and finally morally weak. He initially gets the worst power of all Jojos (shooting your fingernails? really?) and slowly evolves to overcome his weaknesses. At the end of SBR, he managed to climb all the way up to the starting line where the other Jojos started their mangas.
What I mean is: he's the only hero who evolves. All the other Jojos start already ready for action, all their heroicness packed up, they eventually learn a trick or two along the way (a stand you say? Nice, I'll take it!), but they start their journey mentally "finished". Johnny is the opposite, and that evolution is the real story behind SBR (which ties well with the identity of the mummy). It is also interesting that he is himself confused with what the adventure is about, being mistaken into thinking the trip is about fixing his legs while it is instead about fixing his weak personality, self-indulgence and lack of willpower (and the danger of doing it without addressing his lack of morals, as illustrated with the "killing glance" thing).
All these failures in the character are even more meaningful when you think Johnny is a parallel-universe Jonathan, who was the most boringly perfect character of the whole series.
And I agree, Valentine was a great opponent (better than any villain not called DIO or Kira). All the shades of grey of Johnny are present in him, but in reverse. In a way, it was thanks to Valentine that the final confrontation was better than Golden Wind's: Giorno merely happened to be a hero because Diavolo was a plainly evil asshole. Giorno was grey, but the enemy was full dark, which allowed him to come up as the lesser evil, and he was so cunning his weak Stand never was an issue for brutally killing anyone that stood in his way, most of the time indirectly. Giorno didn't need Star Platinum: he, as a human being, was even more powerful than the most powerful stand.
Part 5 was also a story of salvation, but it was the salvation of everyone in the group except him (Buccellati's of course, but also Trish, Abbacchio, Narancia, and even Fugo who refused salvation). Giorno was these people's Christ, a morally compromised Christ, while Johnny is looking for him but ultimately never receives him because his reasons fail him, while Valentine wants him for others (to impose selflessly his dictatorial idea of what others should be wanting to have) and fail for the same reasons. There is nothing interesting to say about Diavolo except talking about his hair.
Valentine, in contrast, could have been the hero of the manga if the cards had been played differently. This is what makes the line "I trust you 100%, but I want to trust you 101%" great: often, many people (Araki included) believe that Jojo quotes are memorable because of their bizarre grammar. It's actually their ability to condense complex situations, contexts and feelings in one allegedly strangely constructed series of words, that made "だが断る。", "てめえは俺を怒らせた" and others so great. The only reason "祝福しろ。" was so memorable was because it promised great things ahead... and then Annasui ended up under-delivering consistently in all of his subsequent appearances.
To conclude on SBR's themes: unfortunately Araki is not a good enough writer for such complex ideas, and he fails short several times throughout the series (and more crucially, shows that he didn't really know how to cross the finish line). However, the intent was very interesting, and he ran with it until the end without changing the topic mid-way through, which is commendable. It's also better to read a failed manga that was too ambitious, than a failed manga whose the author couldn't care less about his world and characters(Stone Ocean).
None of this makes me optimistic about Jojolion, though.
[this message was edited by Iggy on Thu 7 Apr 23:04] |
| Iggy 10198th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P Requiem
| "Re(8):ｷﾀ━(ﾟ∀" , posted Fri 8 Apr 20:29
I disagree, Fugo's scene was interesting and necessary: not everyone accepts to sacrifice its security to potentially receive salvation. I understand the issues that Araki had upon whether making him come back as an enemy or not, and I think the manga works that way too.
Sandman is the great mystery of SBR for me. I have no clue what Araki's intend was with this character, since he doesn't even have a shell of a plot compared to everyone else. He might have been Dio's replacement, but Diego arrives too early in the game to make this hypothesis solid. I really think Araki forgot him after the first volume.
The World Diego is not really a character: he's more of a concept, a trope, and he doesn't replace anyone. He's merely the final wall Johnny needs to overcome. Johnny has become a hero of his own after beating Valentine (he reached the starting line of all the other Jojos I was talking about), the final fight with The World Diego is merely his "Stardust Crusaders" moment. TWD is quite different from Dino Diego during the little he is shown (closer to the DIO we know), so I don't think he eats anyone's lunch. Dino Diego was never going to be the final villain: every character in the manga is scattered between the "good guy" and "bad guy" camp, never fully belonging to either side, and ultimately more grey than any other color. Maybe that was Sandman's role: being a hero, being the whitest character with the purest purpose, and ultimately failing in the most soul-crushing way (because we all know that native American people lost that war)?
If Dino Diego lost his role, which would have been "the final obstacle Johnny would have to overcome to find his way", it would be to Valentine (and he does, literally).
Dino Diego is grey, a darkish grey, at best akin to Dio before he put on the stone mask. He is the possibility Dio had to not turn full-evil. The World Diego is as dark as DIO, darker than Valentine, and thus is necessary to paint Johnny whiter than he ever was during the series.
Zeppeli's death was necessary for Johnny to reach his final state as a character. His motive with the child was... weird and ultimately almost made into a gruesome joke in the final pages, but the actual point of Zeppeli's trip was a teenage rebellion against his father and family, the child was merely a trigger. depending on your point of view, he either failed his rebellion and died like a stupid teenager with daddy issues, or succeeded the moment he left home and started walking on his own without looking back (the James Dean/YOLO approach).
SBR is a manga full of failures, almost all the characters fail their scenario arch, and Johnny ultimately fails off-screen later. I think Lucy and Bocorocco may be the only ones to get out of SBR successful? But SBR is also the first series that started in Ultra Jump, and I read the failure of its characters as Araki's way of moving his series from the younger readers of Jump to the adult readership of UJ. SBR is a strange and bitter series that rings hollow: the real successor, the character who links the series to its future, is Higashikata, a nobody we barely saw in one panel out of 20 volumes. SBR has a higher death toll than any other series (except Stone Ocean, but you could say Stone Ocean's Bad End was a precursor to this). All the characters who were temporary allied at a given point with Johnny and Lucy die: Mountain Tim, Hot Pants, Wekapipo and even Dino Diego. Most of them died with a purpose they failed to achieve.
What makes SBR difficult to read is that you would naturally use a shonen manga reading grid to understand a manga by Araki, but the author worked as hard as possible to break away from it, leaving the series fall in a strange no man's land.
None of this makes me optimistic for Jojolion, again.
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| Spoon 3308th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):ｷﾀ━(ﾟ∀" , posted Sat 9 Apr 15:05
quote:
What I mean is: he's the only hero who evolves.
I somewhat wish that this was the approach taken with Joseph over the course of the series: he never becomes wiser, he just becomes increasingly decrepit.
quote:
Johnny needs to reach the starting line of the other Jojos.
This is a sentiment that I wondered about just from the trope of the Zeppeli: that the Zeppelis are always there to show the way, but will always die. Them dying is important/useful for all kinds of reasons, like motivating the Jojo, selling how powerful the foe is, and cutting the Jojo loose such that there is truly nobody else that the Jojo can count on to defeat the enemy but the Jojo. As you said, the Jojos prior to Johnny are in most ways fully-formed by the time the adventure begins: the only thing they're getting from their time with the Zeppelis is special powers. They don't change their personality, their morals, their anything.
Zeppeli is the fully-formed character, with a charismatic appearance/personality/capability. Unlike other Zeppelis in the series, we actually do get a view in his head and see what he is thinking. Indeed, he's around for so much of the story that in all ways he's a fully working protagonist/co-protagonist. He totally overshadows Johnny, which absolutely seems intentional.
From my perspective of a long-time Jojo reader, Zeppeli surviving for so incredibly long in the series made me keep hoping that he wouldn't die. After all, in this post-part-p6 universe, all kinds of things are upside down: the Joestar is weak and worthless and seemingly a sidekick, the Zeppeli is introduced right at the start and seems to be the protagonist, Dio is still Dio but is somehow not the central villain, etc. But just like in the previous ones, he too dies to what is the penultimate villain of the journey. Now that you've posed it, I do agree that that structural similarity juxtaposed with where Johnny gets to following it is genuinely interesting: that Johnny is not fully-formed in a heroic sense in his personality or his wisdom at the start of the journey, and that he only achieves it at the end. And I think that's what got me: structurally it's interesting enough, but I didn't personally feel convinced of Johnny's evolution, and that must be why my immediate recollection of my impression was so negative.
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| Just a Person 1755th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(2):Worlds collide" , posted Mon 16 May 21:45
quote:
Does Araki have any word about it?
Araki doesn't care about any derivative work based on Jojo as it doesn't impact his work, and answers "do whatever you want" to everything, more or less. Which is why every knowledgeable fan laughed at CC2's claim that Araki was supervising the story of EOH.
That explains a lot, actually... well, at least whoever really wrote the story of EOH tried something different, but to be honest, I prefer the way the story was handled in ASB, with the actual stories from each part presented as they were in the manga (...well, except for JoJolion, where it was just Jo2uke finding the heroes from the previous parts and having senseless fights against them) - although it wouldn't hurt to have some CG scenes between battles, or at least illustrations with texts to better present the stories.
Oh well, maybe in a future ASB2 (or EOH2)? I wouldn't doubt if JJBA gets yet another fighting game before Araki even finishes JoJolion...
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Iggy 10235th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P Requiem
| "Re(5):Worlds collide" , posted Sun 22 May 02:19
quote:
Hirohiko Araki served as a consultant for the game and created exclusive pieces of artwork for its promotion and packaging; most notably, he developed from scratch a new character design for Midler, since Capcom was interested in using her in the game and she had been only vaguely shown in the original manga.
This is correct.
I mean, the exact details of Araki's relationship with the team are hazy, but Midler was indeed designed for this game, her victory/defeat art drawn for it, and Araki also created a couple of artworks for the game (something he couldn't be bothered to do for ASB, and I think he only drew the cover for EOH). I also believe he teased the Capcom staff with Alessy, but I don't remember the details (something of a test to see how dedicated they were? Or a trade, put him in and you can have Midler? I can't remember, I just know Alessy is in the game because of Araki)(which is funny if you think about it: having Alessy in a Stardust Crusaders game before Hol Horse, Vanilla Ice or Enya).
But you have to remember the game is almost 20 years old. People change, for better or worse.
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| Micky Kusanagi
213th Post
PSN: MickyKusanagi
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CFN: MickyKusanagi
Frequent Customer
| "Re(6):Worlds collide" , posted Tue 24 May 16:34:
quote:
Awesome! Have you read the two previous parts (Phantom Blood and Battle Tendency)?
I have never read JJBA, but the idea of each part being so different from each other sounds very interesting. And Stardust Crusaders is the most famous part of it, as far as I know, with many people loving it and many people hating it (then again, all parts seem to have a good share of people that love them and hate them).
Yes I read both of them. I'm only 39 chapters away from the Stardust Crusaders finale and I'm loving it. I love everything I've seen about Jojo so far: the art style, the plots, the insane battle gimmicks, the characters, just everything. I'm positive I'll get on par with Jojolion fast. This manga single-handedly destroyed my "waiting for KOF14" video game schedule for May -clearing as much as I can of GGXrd -SIGN-'s M.O.M, Mission and Challenge modes.
Ore no...kachi da!!
[this message was edited by Micky Kusanagi on Tue 24 May 16:38] |
| | "Re(4):Reality, is entertainment" , posted Wed 1 Mar 02:07
quote:
Has any character first dubbed in ASB kept the same VA once in game?
Okuyasu and Otoishi did.
I initially was under the selfish impression that characters that had their voices for big commercials, would reprise when it comes down to it.... But oh boy, I was wrong.
As for Jojo anime, Yoshikage became Diavolo  It's confusing..... I'm scared boss, I'll be waiting for your call.
Speaking of the anime, has any announcement been made about whether there are plans to adapt Vento Aureo, Stone Ocean and so on?
As for the manga, I read somewhere that JoJolion may be nearing its end, but the main antagonist may not be really a member of the Rock People, after all...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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"Re(5):Oh noだズラ" , posted Sat 23 Nov 12:01:
