Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discussion - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


Original message (2792 Views )

chazumaru
718th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet Regular Member



"Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discussion" , posted Fri 16 Jul 07:23post reply

quote:
I was really, really out there trying to find some decent competitive play for Ryuuko 1 or 3, but in the end the search just proved futile. Then again I just can't blame people for not doing what they should, after all AoF 1 & 3 are so intrincated to the normal audience that not even the complete movelist for the games is available, heck; most people don't even realize that the online movelists are not completed.


That is very interesting. I was under the impression that most guides/FAQs to Ryuuko Gaiden lacked some info. It doesn't help that (understandably) only Ryuuko 2 got an All About guide. I am not even sure any documentation exists for Ryuuko Gaiden and I only own two guides which cover Ryuuko 1:
1) The very first A.A., "All About Taisen Kakutô Game", has sixteen pages on the game.
2) A series of guides from Keibunsha called "○○○○ Daihyakka", which covered every topic a Japanese boy could legally be interested in, released a "Fighting Game Daihyakka" in 1993 covering pretty much all the (consumer) fighting games of that period but it barely had 7 pages to spare on Ryuuko Neo Geo, with very few interesting info and a rather general preview of the game which was probably justified by the lack of a Super Famicom port at the time (SFC/MD games benefit from much more coverage in the book).

I would not be surprised if the SFC version of Ryuuko got its own guide(s) but I do not own any.

Toxico, would you care to elaborate on the series?

Let's start with the first game. Does it have any value in competitive Vs.? Ryuuko no Ken has clearly been thought first and foremost as an impressive single player experience so I would be interested to hear that it actually managed to make the Vs. only characters interesting enough to play. On paper, it seems that Robert and Ryo benefit from many more options. I am interested in any tidbit of knowledge. The World Heroes topic was truly a great read.

Later this week I'll post some memories of how and when I discovered Ryuuko no Ken because it made quite an impression on me back then. It won't bring any interesting info on how to play better, though...

Your favorite or most memorable Art of Fighting game
Ryuuko no ken / Art of Fighting
Ryuuko no ken / Art of Fighting [SFC version]
Ryuuko no ken / Art of Fighting [PC Engine version]
Ryuuko no ken 2 / Art of Fighting 2
Ryuuko no ken Gaiden / Art of Fighting 3
Ryuuko no ken Gaiden / Art of Fighting 3 [Neo CD version]
Another port
I only know them from KOF
I only know them from the anime (just refrain from voting...)






無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は

Replies:

karasu99
389th Post



user profileedit/delete message

PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a

Silver Customer


"Re(1):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Fri 16 Jul 07:41:post reply

quote:
Sage discussion by chazumaru


Hum, there was an All About for RnK2? That is one that I will have to scour eBay for.

I always loved 2 since it was what we never got for Garou 1-- a new version of RnK 1, with the same characters (and more) but where a single player could use any of the characters against the computer opponent. Plus those huge, gorgeous sprites and the fight damage (which didn't seem outre at the time, as it sometimes does now in newer games) were just perfect. And all redrawn when they probably could have gotten away with using the ones from RnK 1!

The multiplayer scene when I played the game originally was basically nonexistent, and my skills at it are meager at best, so I can't comment on the competitive aspect. It was actually one of the first games I bought for the home system, at a price that I can hardly stand to think of today, but it was rarely a multiplayer choice for my friends and I for some reason.

So there, I've contributed almost nothing to the conversation.





[this message was edited by karasu99 on Fri 16 Jul 08:45]

chazumaru
719th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet Regular Member



"Re(2):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Fri 16 Jul 08:56post reply

I popped up the cartridge after posting this topic and toyed around with the Vs. mode.

Ryo and Robert actually feel quite different from their Ryuuko 2 versions (I can't even pull out the dragon punch properly) and I forgot that it was impossible to cancel the D action or that charging took so long. I suppose that the characters who dominate are those who don't need the power gauge so much; for example, it seems that Jack is not very different whether full or empty (compared to other characters such as Micky or the main duo). Unless priorities change depending on the ki?

Something else I was wondering about: do the A+C and B+C actions have any value in that game?





無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は

karasu99
390th Post



user profileedit/delete message

PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a

Silver Customer


"Re(3):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sat 17 Jul 08:15post reply

quote:
I popped up the cartridge after posting this topic and toyed around with the Vs. mode.

I'm shocked that you and I are the only two people discussing this game (and I'm only half discussing it, let us be honest). I will need to fire up my copy tonight in order to have a reasonable conversation about it.





Professor
2713th Post



user profileedit/delete message

MMCafe Owner


"Re(4):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sat 17 Jul 10:08:post reply

quote:
I popped up the cartridge after posting this topic and toyed around with the Vs. mode.
I'm shocked that you and I are the only two people discussing this game (and I'm only half discussing it, let us be honest). I will need to fire up my copy tonight in order to have a reasonable conversation about it.



A few nice nostalgic things come to mind.
-AOF Anime was soo 80's.
-Robert looked really good in the AOF2 ad.
-Combos using the no-energy situations could be so awful in AOF2.
-All About AOF2 was a really good book and even had the prefight dialogues in Japanese and English
-Gamest's AOF manga series still looks good to this age.

This site covers a lot of tidbits that general players have no knowledge about, like how the player character gets knocked down if they get hit with more than 24 pixels worth of damage in AOF1 (reason why Haoh Shokoken knocks down opponents on guard). Even has a few rough drafts of the characters.





[this message was edited by Professor on Sat 17 Jul 10:09]

chazumaru
720th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet Regular Member



"Re(5):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sat 17 Jul 18:25post reply

I never could find the ヒッポンスーパー NEO・GEOのすべて this scan comes from but I am convinced it will pop up at one of the shops in Ebisu/Namba one day. That site is great; I think you already linked to it once, Prof.

There is one thing about AOF2 they don't mention, though. I haven't tried myself yet but it seems that when you toy around with the DIP switch 2-4, you unlock new moves for all characters! All moves are performed with or . Damage data has not been implemented correctly yet and some are slightly buggy. I have a crush for the tiny Micky attack!





無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は無限早見は

IkariDC
780th Post



user profileedit/delete message

PSN: Ikari_DC
XBL: IkariDC
Wii: Toolazytolookitup

Red Carpet Regular Member+



"Re(6):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sat 17 Jul 22:55post reply

I wanted to contribute something to this thread, as I like the first entry in the series a lot. I wanted to find some scans of the review they did in the infamous Spanish magazine Hobby Consolas on AOF for Neo Geo. I didn't find any. The thing is, there were profiles and a movelist for every character in the game, but I think they made up the names of some of the moves, if not all! I remember that Ryo or Robert's shoryuken like move was "something kubrekamas" which, in Spanish, "cubrecama" means bedspread. I really wanted to read it again to find out what other stupid stuff they included.

Anyways, I think I found out about the game before reading that review. Because of Street Fighter II, fighting games were all the rage back then, and AOF's giant sprites and zoom in and out effect caused a dramatic impact on me. I loved the game's movie like presentation of the scenes, the dialogs, etc. I preferred Robert over Ryo because Ryo was fugly when he got hit in the face. Gotta love that feature! The game felt a lot different thanks to the ki gauge for specials and because of the ability to bounce off of the edge of the screen to attack the opponent.

I almost shat my pants when I found out, years and years later, that desperate attacks were in the game before KOF!

I didn't get to play AOF2 in the arcades, but when my local arcade got AOF3, I already played a lot of KOF94 and 96, so I was confident in my skills (as in, I knew the whole movelist) with Ryo & Robert. I remember the rotoscoped animations greeting me as I was putting a coin in with a grin in my face. I dunno what the difficulty level was, but I lost in the first match quite embarrassingly. I tried again to no avail. I left the place not wanting to touch that thing again for some time. It was scary! Eventually I got into it, but I still like the first AOF the best.





Tai-Pan
471th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Gold Customer


"Re(7):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sun 18 Jul 03:42post reply

quote:
I wanted to contribute something to this thread, as I like the first entry in the series a lot. I wanted to find some scans of the review they did in the infamous Spanish magazine Hobby Consolas on AOF for Neo Geo.


Hahahaha!! Wanna know something? I have THAT particular hobby consolas issue stored inside a box at my house in Argentina. I would scan it for you If I wasn't on the other end of America!!





"Those who follow the path of a warrior must be ready to die in order to stand for one's convictions live for one's convictions die for one's convictions"

IkariDC
781th Post



user profileedit/delete message

PSN: Ikari_DC
XBL: IkariDC
Wii: Toolazytolookitup

Red Carpet Regular Member+



"Re(8):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sun 18 Jul 05:24post reply

quote:

Hahahaha!! Wanna know something? I have THAT particular hobby consolas issue stored inside a box at my house in Argentina. I would scan it for you If I wasn't on the other end of America!!



Well, I have that issue stored in a box too, somewhere in my attic. Which is not in Argentina, but in the 6th floor of the building (I'm on the 2nd). I'm too lazy to scan stuff, and in this case it's not even in hand...





Spoon
1983th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive





"Re(6):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sun 18 Jul 10:14post reply

quote:

There is one thing about AOF2 they don't mention, though. I haven't tried myself yet but it seems that when you toy around with the DIP switch 2-4, you unlock new moves for all characters! All moves are performed with or . Damage data has not been implemented correctly yet and some are slightly buggy. I have a crush for the tiny Micky attack!



Double Strike, Robert's move, John's constipated bicep, and Big's baldhead beam are all hilarious!

One of the my friends said that he was never big into AOF, until one day the local machine flipped a setting to give everybody infinite gauge. What resulted was non-stop sweep -> super wars (because supers are unblockable in AOF), which almost sounds like SFA2, now that I think about it (Valle combo...).

My earliest memory of AOF involved watching some other people play it on a machine. I was really impressed by how big and awesome the sprites were, though I found Ryo's specials oddly underwhelming (my impression at the time was that the flying kick and fireball were cool, but they seemed to have no "impact"... but that was because the cpu was blocking them! Too bad I was too ignorant to acknowledge that at the time!)

AOF3 was so visually impressive that I couldn't understand why nobody was playing it. Of course, I couldn't play it either, but that was because I didn't have any quarters for the arcade machine.

When I went back to try playing AOF a year or two ago, having had years and years of fighting game experience under my belt, I found that:
- AOF3's animation are still fantastic, and its control scheme and style made it feel like it wanted to be Tekken
- AOF2's face damage was still shocking, because I realized I had never seen AOF2 up close in my life until then
- AOF1 is somewhat difficult to enjoy actually playing.

AOF's meter requirement for special moves was an interesting idea, and was quite likely partly a response to the tactical dominance of fireballs in SF2. However, the more I played it, the more the taunt/charge mechanics seemed oddly balanced... it felt like some characters could taunt meter off faster than some could charge it! Also, taunting people while they're down in AOF3 is cool (strategic incentive to taunt? I'm in!), especially considering how doing so usually involves giving up OTG damage. At first it also seemed to tilt the match quite far in the direction of the guy who gets the first knockdown, because it can quickly turn into a lame-duck scenario where the player getting beaten on has no ability to reversal and is low on life. However, blocking attacks builds tons of meter really fast, and attacks which are blocked build the attacker no real meter! Meters also regenerate slowly, too. At first it seems something like the opposite of the comeback mechanisms of SamSho and more recent fighting games (e.g. SF4 and Ultras): the player carrying the fight not only scores damage, but the losing player gets options and threats taken away. And then you get the idea that the game just doesn't want you to do wakeup specials, like, at all. It wants you to block, and then maybe do a reversal. The dynamic of the meter is so jarring that I'm not sure if it could ever be balanced in a way that doesn't feel contrived. Then again, there's that once-doujin game Monster, whose Power Break system strongly incentivized blocking when on the defense.

Tangential point:
I very much like the notion of some of the Ultras that were put into SSF4, like Rose's U2; rather than giving them some instant big damage, they gain brand new options or deterrences. For instance, Zangief having an additional FAB means jack if Zangief can never get in a position to land even one of them... and even if he does land it, is he back to square one afterwards? Many of the new Ultras serve as midscreen punishers that limit the opponent's ability to zone, and the threat of that can change the way the opponent plays enough that the balance of the match shifts.

Back to AOF:
Possibly my favourite combo in all of AOF is with Wyler. It more or less is mashing the A button while pressing towards from time to time, and can do 100%.

On the other hand, Jin Fuha mirror matches are probably the best thing in the world.





Just a Person
1422th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet Executive Member




"Re(7):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Mon 19 Jul 01:25post reply

I already said it in the topic about SNK's glorious past, but I always preferred Art of Fighting over Fatal Fury. I know the FF series has a better gameplay, and its plot seems to be more developed as well, but I always considered the AoF characters (the main ones at least) more charismatic. I never really liked the "coolness" of the Lonely Wolves trio, and only started liking Mai after she joined King and Yuri in King of Fighters.

Anyway, AoF1 had a nice story, nothing too elaborated, but nice enough to let the player aware of why Ryo and Robert were fighting everyone in the city. Although it wasn't so nice that we could only choose two characters for the main mode (and two characters that were not so different in terms of gameplay).

AoF2 was a huge improvement, even if most game reviews say otherwise. Three of the coolest AoF characters were introduced in this game (sorry Temjin, but I'm talking about the other three... although Takuma technically wasn't introduced in AoF2, but in the first game we didn't know who he was), and as someone mentioned earlier, the game had brand-new sprites with much more detail, even though SNK could have gotten away recycling the ones from the first game (too bad they didn't follow this way of working in the KOF series...). The clothes-ripping was quite unnecessary IMO, even back then, although it was more acceptable than shaving your opponents' heads bald in World Heroes. And I always laughed my head off at the ending credits, with those joke scenes (like Yuri wearing Lee's mask)!

AoF3 had wonderful graphics and animation! However, the gameplay still felt too heavy, and that took a lot off the fun in playing it. It was also bad that only Ryo and Robert returned and only 6 other characters were added (okay, 8, but Sinclair and Wyler weren't available from start). Still, they deserved more chances in SNK games than they got; Kasumi was the only character introduced in AoF3 who actually was lucky to enter the KOF series, right? I always thought that Karman Cole would be a great addition to the AoF team (he's Robert's bodyguard, after all; it would make perfect sense that he entered the tournament to protect him).

It's a shame that the AoF series only lasted three games (I refuse to consider Buriki One as part of it), but they left fond memories! And at least we can often see Ryo, Robert, Yuri, King, Takuma, Eiji, Kasumi and Mr.Big in KOF...





I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.

Toxico
5062th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(3):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Mon 19 Jul 09:53post reply

quote:

Something else I was wondering about: do the A+C and B+C actions have any value in that game?



It really depends on the character. Some quick characters actually had a good BC toe kick that was quicker than a sweep and have more or less the same range.... But the bests A+C or B+C moves where the "non standard ones" like the ones from Jack (though it was bad for you if they got blocked). Todoh also had a decent A+C command but no one is asking


Well, now if I where to speak about the games I should say...

I is a very very methodic fighter, there isn't much room to improvisation here and there and most of the fights where carried out by who landed biggest amount of single hits. Since it's too methodic it can get boring and monotonous if you play too much with the same mix ups, so in the end people ended up back on the 1p features of the game to keep the love going.

Just like P.O.W. (脱獄) there is a very very intrincated juggle system hidden in the game, but unlike P.O.W. it's really hard to trigger and hard to use.

II is a more complete version of the first one, that much is easily known.... but, but! the game reduced the usefulness of the basic weak attacks and increased the reliance on special moves, the problem with that is that when a player gets really good (like, doesn't do mistakes and escapes by reflex every throw) you really can't K.O. them if they are careful, you can't break their guard by just attacking, and accidental attacks made so little damage..... I remember having many, many combats on this one that ended up in time over, and even then the player that lost had something like 50% life....

The game introduced "normal" ground combos (and some silly things like close standing C x 3 intro zanretsuken) but since it wasn't "normal" to hit the enemy (human or CPU) there it wasn't that many chances to experiment stupid things each time the enemy messes up... Also I have heard many whining critics from now day players because they can't handle the AI, but that was pretty much common at the time (heck, since I couldn't get Geese 100% of the time, I was disregarded as mentally challenged by the other players, that could easily ace the game )

Gaiden... Is well, a complete different package, with the inclusion of command moves, overheads and what not the game relies a lot more on normal attacks that the other titles, but that doesn't mean that the specials aren't important at all... Also the speed of the game was reworked so much that it obviously feels like a complete different game.

One of the most satisfactory things about Gaiden is just how much the game is focused on hitting the enemy. Most of the characters can be split in just two categories, one is the heavy hitters, that are character that rely on (almost) slow attacks to make contact to the the enemy and the others are the rush down characters, which are the ones that rely on quick attacks and quick chains to entangle and kill the enemy... Even though we could group the characters in only these 2 sub divisions, every character is just so radically different one of the other that they play "strong" in totally different circumstances, and more over all of the characters are fun and dynamic once you get a clue on what you are supposed to do with them. It's also very surprising how there is basically no gameplay archetype in Gaiden, nothing like "slow but strong, slow with range, fast and balanced"; all of the characters feel like they aren't going to appear in another game control wise (and they didn't, har har), of course most people don't even realize this... Mariah and Hol Horse have nothing on Wang or Kasumi

.... Then again, Gaiden has always been "shunned" since it had too many command moves, ground recovery moves and things akin to a 3D game... It's kinda funny because I know a lot of people (including me) that don't really do a stiff line to differentiate between games. In the end SF 1 or Tekken 10 are always going to be about K.O.ing the enemy and teasing the losing player , people also disliked that characters where cheesy and bizarre, unlike a bunch of animu blondes like in gekka no kenshi series







目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Update 21 as of 29/01/10 (Temporary mega upload link).

Now sponsoring : video game analogies (ES)
Last update : Chapter 18 as of 02/07/10

Toxico
5084th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(4):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Fri 30 Jul 09:20post reply

You didn't thought that I would let this thread sink down just like that, right?







目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Update 22 as of 27/08/10 (Temporary mega upload link).

Now sponsoring : video game analogies (ES)
Last update : Chapter 18 as of 02/07/10

Professor
2763th Post



user profileedit/delete message

MMCafe Owner


"Re(5):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sat 14 Aug 21:30post reply

What in the... not worksafe





Nobinobita
789th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet Regular Member+



"Re(6):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sun 15 Aug 00:00post reply

quote:
What in the... not worksafe



Oh wow. So the damage info was done by changing the palette rather than making more sprites. That's really cool! Not unlike the techniques Mark Ferrari employed. I wonder how many of the alt costumes in KOFXIII use similar palette tricks.






www.art-eater.com

Professor
2766th Post



user profileedit/delete message

MMCafe Owner


"Re(7):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Sun 15 Aug 18:35:post reply

quote:
What in the... not worksafe


Oh wow. So the damage info was done by changing the palette rather than making more sprites. That's really cool! Not unlike the techniques Mark Ferrari employed. I wonder how many of the alt costumes in KOFXIII use similar palette tricks.



Actually, the damages in AOF are done by overlaying a layer of sprite over the normal ones. I'm amazed that you've noticed the possibility of color swapping though, I didn't even think about it though I've played XIII; all the alt costumes except for Raiden and Takuma uses swapping tricks in the game.


Humn... Comiket is over and I am quite inspired.





[this message was edited by Professor on Sun 15 Aug 19:57]

Toxico
5112th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(8):Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting Discuss" , posted Mon 16 Aug 10:12:post reply

quote:

Humn... Comiket is over and I am quite inspired.



This is what I call inspired, har har har.

MUTEKI NO RYU . SAIKYO NO TORA GA ... better quality ver

SUPA RIAL AKUSHION GAMU

I don't remember a CM for gaiden though.....

Damn, I'm gonna plug in that AoF Anthology right away

Also, I remember seeing these awesome CM about a daughter hitting on her dad in order to distract him and beat him in NG games, Hahahahaha.


EDIT :

!! I only knew about some of King's auto guarding moves... Coincidentally, they aren't on that vid, har har. Perhaps that is so since I don't remember bugging the hell out of the game with her.

EDIT :

quote:

Also, I remember seeing these awesome CM about a daughter hitting on her dad in order to distract him and beat him in NG games



Hohohohohoho

Another one

I don't have a clue on just how many they are on total.


Aaaa, for the record, checking This Garou Densetsu 3 CM we can see Terry using the Triple Geyser at some point to stop a jump.... and that isn't possible, har har har, as the move is part of a "secret" (really secret) short chain combo.







目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Update 22 as of 27/08/10 (Temporary mega upload link).

Now sponsoring : video game analogies (ES)
Last update : Chapter 19 as of 12/08/10

[this message was edited by Toxico on Mon 16 Aug 19:49]