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| Maou 1752th Post
 
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
  
    
    
    
    
|  "Let's talk about Rudora and 16-bit Square" , posted Mon 27 Jul 04:51:
Inspired by Iggy's mention of Rudora No Hihou and increasingly uneasy about randomthread balling all conversations into the Mu/Void, I propose talking about some of Square's late-generation 16-bit SFC games that receive relatively little attention. Alternately, it can be the thread about old Square games I have played or owned yet not spent more than an hour on.
Rudora: Iggy reminded me of Rudora No Hihou, the Secret Treasure of the Rudras, which sounds really interesting, but which, like 90% of the population, I never played because I was too busy with FFVI and Chrono Trigger (and honestly, if we hadn't been doing that, we would have been dying through Dragon Quest VI). The spell-creation system sounds enormously clever and the Indian-influenced story sounds unique. How do people feel about it? It's evidentally even gotten a fan translation in English long after the fact, I hear.
Live-A-Live: Every so often, this poor neglected game gets mentioned on the side of some other thread, often with some level of warmness. I played it about a decade ago for about five minutes and never really gave it its due. Any crusaders?
Bahamut Lagoon: I've had this one in my closet for years and years (after buying the poor unloved thing for about 500Y in perfect condition), and even played the first hour or so before grounding out. Maybe I should've kept going?
Treasure Hunter G: Okay, so no one actually played this one.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 27 Jul 05:35] |
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| Iggy 8951th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
  
| "Re(1):Let's talk about Rudora and 16-bit Squa" , posted Mon 27 Jul 05:28
Thanks for not letting me derail the DQN thread any further.
Rudora
When the game came out, I was fed up with Romancing SaGa3, Seiken3 and FF6 (I was never fed up with RomaSaga2 and kept playing it until Minstrel Song came out).
My Japanese wasn't good enough to understand the plot fully. Still, the grammatical concepts of the spell creation (prefixes mean this, suffixes do that, radicals mean this and that) were awesome, and letting a boss attack until he did his own hidden technique that you would memorize, write down, then use (you, the player, not you, the character you're playing as) was taking the Rockman concept to whole new levels (though it forced you to keep a paper and a pencil near you when you played, which when you think of it is actually great and something most of us don't do anymore in this XXIst century)(and it's a shame).
The system was inevitably broken, since you could get superawesome magics very early in the game, but balanced by the clever formulas used to calculate damage (at low level, super awesome magic didn't deal much more damage then the low-tier ones, while requiring 10 times the MPs).
The graphics were awesome, as it was one of the very few RPGs that used animated sprites for everything, not only your own main characters, and everything moved very smooth. The maps were pretty, and the characters detailed enough to feel completely different from a story to the other.
The principle of having 3 different characters moving around during the 15 days before the Apocalypse, and having their actions impact on each others and the world itself was brilliant (you could either play each character to see the end of his personal story but without understanding the full plot, or playing them all day after day to get a picture of the whole scenario)(and you could just let a character rot while playing the others, learning new spells, and get back to it with new, cheaper and awesome-r spells to speed things up).
Finally, the other personal reason why I love this game is that I did it again a few years later, when I could read everything that they said, and enjoyed it like it was a brand new game.
Live-A-Live: This is one of the games (with Wild Card on WS and maybe Majora's Mask) that I feel are sorely missing from my videogame knowledge in the same way not having read Don Quijote prevents me from being the literature geek I fancy myself to be. I have a few friends who keep telling me how awesome it is. Every fucking time I see them. So I started reading Quijote.
Bahamut Lagoon: This is a very mysterious game for me. I bought it when it was released, finished it countless times (I think it had a new game+ feature, and I had several saves in parallel, trying to feed different things to my dragons...)
But I can't remember anything about it. How can I have forgotten so much about a game I poured a few hundred hours in? Maybe I just used these hours to totally empty my brain and not think about anything. I think I remember the game to be rather repetitive and not very challenging...
Treasure Hunter G: Treasure who?
Not a Squaresoft game... at the time, but sometimes I feel my attachment to Tactics Ogre might be a little irrational. I don't like the Fire Emblem formula at all, so that's already half of the tactical genre out of the way... But I don't like any of TO's successors either. I loathed FFT's small groups, unbearably complicated scenario and early brokenness with passion, and TO on GBA felt just like a toned down version of the game I loved.
I recently had an interesting discussion with a friend on how Seiken 2 (which I don't particularly like) was 10 times better than Seiken 3 (which I loved and play through at least 12 times), and I think he managed to convince me on a few points... which fortunately I forgot as soon as I came back to London.
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| Sensenic 1685th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(2):Let's talk about Rudora and 16-bit Squa" , posted Mon 27 Jul 07:30:
 {You called?
I got a deja-vu when I went to change my profile, so I decided to search a little:
Live A Live (from this post on)
(found actually using google. The search function, it did nothing  )
My opinion on the game is basically on a post there.
Simple, straight, innovative/gimmicky (see it as you will), short, charmingly stereotypical stories, and a simple and overdone yet true "message"...
A bresh of fresh air onto the genre, with really wonderful music.
Edit: Right after both posts linked on that thread, BTW, a certain Maou started wondering about Treasure Hunter and Bahamut Lagoon...
Seems you haven't taken that thorn out yet?
quote:
Iggy on Rudora
Damn, now you made me want to play it...
quote:
Live-A-Live: This is one of the games (with Wild Card on WS and maybe Majora's Mask) that I feel are sorely missing from my videogame knowledge in the same way not having read Don Quijote prevents me from being the literature geek I fancy myself to be. I have a few friends who keep telling me how awesome it is. Every fucking time I see them. So I started reading Quijote.
And damn again, now you're making me feel proud of myself.
I did read Quijote out of curiosity, and certainly enjoyed the second part (Less famous but much better than the first).
貧乳神・・・
"Don't give me that crap about real life. There ain't no such animal."
-Felix Leiter-
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Mon 27 Jul 07:32] |
| Maou 1753th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(3):Let's talk about Rudora and 16-bit Squa" , posted Mon 27 Jul 10:43:
quote:
Right after both posts linked on that thread, BTW, a certain Maou started wondering about Treasure Hunter and Bahamut Lagoon...
Seems you haven't taken that thorn out yet?
Hey man, I feel like I haven't seen you posting for ever! And you're right...looking back, I see that I didn't care about Treasure Hunter G then, either. I still have a sort of mocking curiousity about it, though, that is usually reserved just for SaGa. Now that the musings I had in that old thread about unloved 16-bit Square SFC games are their own thread, I hope to hear more, especially about Live-A-Live and Rudora! Maybe someone can really make me play Live-A-Live this time! I still probably won't play my copy of Bahamut Lagoon, though.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 27 Jul 10:51] |
| Sensenic 1686th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):Let's talk about Rudora and 16-bit Squa" , posted Mon 27 Jul 23:43
quote:
Hey man, I feel like I haven't seen you posting for ever!
Oh, it's always nice to receive a warm welcome. Thanks ^_^
Guess it's because I tend to lurk more than post ^_^; which I do only once in a while, when there's sth I really want to tell and I'm not feeling too lazy to write it. The fact that my posts almost always end up as poorly written messy walls of text doesn't help.
/(;n_n)
So normally I'm satiated enough just by leeching delicious info and clever remarks from this place.
quote:
And you're right...looking back, I see that I didn't care about Treasure Hunter G then, either.
I tried it out once, years ago, but couldn't get past some point in the beginning (sth blocking the world map and didn't know what to do), so I left it.
Same for Bahamut Lagoon... I liked its graphics a lot... (so bright!) but couldn't get around to it.
Although, back in the day, the cause for the disinterest might have been the not-so-uncommon unfinished translation patches that would suddenly forget the English and start spouting mojibake, to my frustration. 
quote:
Now that the musings I had in that old thread about unloved 16-bit Square SFC games are their own thread, I hope to hear more, especially about Live-A-Live and Rudora! Maybe someone can really make me play Live-A-Live this time! I still probably won't play my copy of Bahamut Lagoon, though.
On LaL... there's little I can add, other than, "go try it! ( ò_ó)-o"
I mean, at least one of the chapters should have the gameplay/plot/setting suited for you:
- an almost-completely adventure RPG, with no battles, just an intense plot of serial murder and people on a closed space slowly losing their trust in each other? - Future Chapter.
- You enjoy the different and original fighting system and want to fight with no other worries for plot whatsoever? You have a fighting game-like RPG, where you just choose your next rival and duke it out. - Present Chapter
- You want an infiltration Metalgear-esque gameplay, with moral choices on whether you achieve your goals by killing people or not? (and far more secrets than should be allowed on such a short story) - Bakumatsu chapter
- You're sick of the blahblahblah kill God, listen to my tragical past, it's all a metaphor for the Power of Friendship triumphing over evil mumbojumbo? Then perhaps you'd enjoy an RPG with not one single word spoken, just little drawings and roars, before language was born - prehistoric chapter
- Are you sick of supposedly strong Royal Guards or ex elite soldiers starting at level 2 or 5? Perhaps you want to start -and play a whole story- with a badass character who can truly wipe the floor with his enemies from the very start, all while searching for a disciple to pass his knowledge onto - China chapter.
etc.
Just keep this in mind: the stories will never be original. On the opposite, it will be like playing an "alien" movie, a 90's anime, an spaghetti western or a chinese martial arts flick. But therein lies their charm, in living interactively the different stories, lives, you have watched so many times.
The surprises... will come later.
貧乳神・・・
"Don't give me that crap about real life. There ain't no such animal."
-Felix Leiter-
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| Time Mage 2770th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Let's talk about Rudora and 16-bit Squa" , posted Tue 28 Jul 05:38
Seiken 2's battle system was, in my opinion, poorly designed. Charging for ages to get level 10 power for your weapon then when you're about to release, get hit and lose the charge wasn't fun at all. Heck, even if you managed to get the attack, the time needed to charge was a lot of time doing nothing.
Secret of Evermore, while being as uncharismatic as a game can be, had a very, very solid battle system, with less charge levels and that very interesting alchemy idea for the magic attacks. And the music was great, too.
I started Seiken 3 several times but never got too far. A pity, because I think I would love it.
"News flash big guy: You can wax on wax off all you want I'm still... KICKIN' YOUR ASS!"
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| Maou 1756th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(1):The rise of the sinistals." , posted Tue 28 Jul 10:43
Ah, this reminds me, Seiken Densetsu 3 is another Square RPG that I own but never played more than five minutes of, oops! Then again, mysteriously, inexplicably, I've never played Seiken 2. But then, these aren't quite in the category of "forgotten Square SFC games" (though given how the series devolved into rubbish, maybe they will be forgotten by guilty association), so I will not worry about them.
Estpolis/Lufia II and Toxico: Oh! Yeah, it's not Square so it's "off-topic," but I don't care, because this little game is important. Two music tracks, Battle 1 and Towers of the Seal, are outstanding. It's a strange game in that even though it's a "story and combat RPG," it's really the puzzles that are the great part. I always looked forward to solving them, far more than I did to the okay battles and the massivley outdated 1991-era story. Oddly enough, the story is highly effective in two spots, and I'll spoil all I want because it's fifteen years later: the unexpected marriage scene (even though it was probably cribbed from Dragon Quest V) and the passage of time making it a two-act story even though the acts themselves are meaningless, and the tragic ending, of course. Even with the empty characters, the sadness of the ending lingers because the archetypal act of sacrifice is so moving and because it's so rarely done in an ending. Excellent.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Amakusa 818th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(2):The rise of the sinistals." , posted Fri 31 Jul 16:17:
quote:
Ah, this reminds me, Seiken Densetsu 3 is another Square RPG that I own but never played more than five minutes of, oops! Then again, mysteriously, inexplicably, I've never played Seiken 2. But then, these aren't quite in the category of "forgotten Square SFC games" (though given how the series devolved into rubbish, maybe they will be forgotten by guilty association), so I will not worry about them.
Seiken 2 was also called Secret of Mana.
I actually liked both 2 and 3, for different reasons. 3 had a superior battle system (it's also one of the few games where the Poison status isn't a complete joke), but even though it had built-in replayability I couldn't be bothered to actually use anyone other than the spear girl.
quote:
Estpolis/Lufia II and Toxico: Oh! Yeah, it's not Square so it's "off-topic," but I don't care, because this little game is important. Two music tracks, Battle 1 and Towers of the Seal, are outstanding. It's a strange game in that even though it's a "story and combat RPG," it's really the puzzles that are the great part. I always looked forward to solving them, far more than I did to the okay battles and the massivley outdated 1991-era story. Oddly enough, the story is highly effective in two spots, and I'll spoil all I want because it's fifteen years later: the unexpected marriage scene (even though it was probably cribbed from Dragon Quest V) and the passage of time making it a two-act story even though the acts themselves are meaningless, and the tragic ending, of course. Even with the empty characters, the sadness of the ending lingers because the archetypal act of sacrifice is so moving and because it's so rarely done in an ending. Excellent.
Lufia 2 wins props for its big puzzle focus (most of them were of the good variety). I also liked its relatively simplistic story and found the characters surprisingly charming in spite of the fact they were simple archetypes. Of course, as far as the story goes I think knowing that two of those characters are going to die ahead of time is what made me appreciate it more. A lot of people I argue this point on because I think it's particularly important that you do know how it ends, especially since that seems to be the intention by nearly replicating (with some obvious differences) the entire sequence from the first Lufia game.
I found Kagami's sword in a junk yard.
I will rule the world and find that truly good cup of coffee.
"Dink-a-dink-a-dink-a-do."
[this message was edited by Amakusa on Fri 31 Jul 16:18] |
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"The rise of the sinistals." , posted Tue 28 Jul 07:14
