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sfried
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"Interesting art styles..." , posted Fri 19 Sep 16:46post reply

This topic sort of stems from a discussion we had from one of the random threads.

Earlier this afternoon, our entire class attended a lecture by Prof. Takayuki Yokota-Murakami about non-other than the growing rise of the 2 dimensional lolita complex in Japan (and how otaku claim it doesn't jive with their view on real people, how some of these otaku are even married, etc.). Basically, he summarizes what most books already mention about how the artstyle has shifted to focus more on the "detached" qualities of 2D space rather than the vouyeristic angles by more realistic styles (hence the term "superflat"). But one interesting aspect he mentioned about was that the shift in style was in due part because some of these artists "can't draw quite as well". Perhaps this explains the rise of the galge asthetic (and cheap moe-moe blob look alikes).

Now this brings me to an interesting question: Just what happened to those who can draw well? Surely they didn't just up and quit in the early 90's. Whzt about those who followed on their footsteps?

I'm curious as to the kind of artstyle the general representatives of MMCafe actually find interest in. I'm pretty sure Shinkiro will be mentioned somewhere here, maybe even Amano, but I'm also looking for stylized 2D qualities that are unique to certain artists and not have the copy-paste faces that others can easily replicate.






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Toxico
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"Re(1):Interesting art styles..." , posted Fri 19 Sep 17:07:post reply

This topic could potentially become very interesting.... I'll elaborate tomorrow, now I only wanted to take the first reply spot

Edit, first thing first : to my surprise, my 4am drunken self didn't properly remembered Axel's Hawk Desperation move ()

Second, while I do think that the love hina / l'ciel wave just shouldn't have hit nearly as stronly as it did, I do agree with Zep~gy that you can find just way to many more currents than that in culture and subcultre.

What really struck me when I read this topic was the question of "artists / drawers" that you find insteresting didn't quit, did they?", and that inmediatly some names struck my head with bloodied hands...

First one was Katsura, the guy from the DNA^2 series. His stories wheren't that good, characters where fan service machines and he wasn't versatile at drawing. The thing that make me notice him is that he could, from time to time ad a lot of realism to his draws, with very vivid shadows and deep perceptions.

The problem with him was that, from his "design models" there where only a few that he could draw very nicely, so whenever he wanted to draw something 'cute' (usual for fan service authors) he created characters with the same faces and body structures, this amaterish fault was something that I was hoping he would overcame some day but the last thing I knew was that he wasn't currently drawing and hasn't beend doing so since years.

Katsura drew my attention becusue it was the first manga that I legaly owned and could properly analyze. (I was a young, poor mountain hill low class citizen, so sue me AND manga was really hard to adquire in my country). Also, right now in the market there are some people who imiate his style, but they are mostly authors for low quality magazines.

Another author who's realism and "US current" like draws was Takehiko Inoue. He was much more versatile than the previous author and his stories didn't revolve about hungry school girls, I always felt that the detail he could add to his drawns could create really good characterizations, and that he could "break boundries" by borrowing elements from both, US and japanese cultures (kinda like Tetsuo Hara but I didn't knew him that deeply at the time). Also, the fact that Slum Dunk was about rebelious students and could be seeing right after the time of my life where I used bricks to hit on my classmates added fuel to his influence on me. I do think that his work shined more with vagabond and that he could still develop more on his style. The things that I always heard was that Inoue focus on weird baskell ball stories didn't make his work "known and successful" and as such, he was kind of underground.

It's unusual how the few authors that do stick to my mind are not the ones that I think perfect but rather those that could improve much more than what I am seeing at the time.





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[this message was edited by Toxico on Sat 20 Sep 02:25]

Iggy
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"Re(1):Interesting art styles..." , posted Fri 19 Sep 17:42post reply

There definitely are people who go to art school without being interested in the moe culture, and work as regular illustrators. I recently had to read a book called Seirei no Moribito, and the illustrations inside where rather well executed somewhat-Art Nouveau style. Also, don't forget all the books for very small children, and, well, professional illustrators in general, those we see in Comickers and such.
I suppose we don't know them as much because they are less mainstream, and you have to go out of your way to notice them, especially when you are overseas and all you see is what sells best (or is cheap) in Japan. But they exist; Moe/=Japan.





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"Re(2):Interesting art styles..." , posted Fri 19 Sep 20:56post reply

quote:
Moe/=Japan.



What Iggy said.

Anime and video games overlap a little bit so if you're mainly interested in those two subcultures or similar subcultures, it'll naturally mean that all you'll see are similar art styles, because that is the style that is most suitable to these target markets.

That is why you'll never see mainstream games like Dragon Quest or the majority of Nintendo's games featuring moe art, because they're targeted towards the wider mainstream audience.





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"Re(1):Interesting art styles..." , posted Sat 20 Sep 07:08post reply

Well superflat is Murakami's concept and crew name, not sure if it has become a generally accepted term. Have you seen this variant of the Street Fighter Zero 3 packaging (Sega Dreamcast, Japanese version)? It is based on superflat artists groovisions and their character chappie33 (variable gender and look).





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sfried
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"Re(2):Interesting art styles..." , posted Sun 21 Sep 06:13post reply

quote:
There definitely are people who go to art school without being interested in the moe culture, and work as regular illustrators. I recently had to read a book called Seirei no Moribito, and the illustrations inside where rather well executed somewhat-Art Nouveau style.
Didn't Ganktsuou also apply a same style? As much as I do find that kind of stuff interesting, I was hoping to find ones done more by hand than computer. Toxico mentioned a few.

quote:
Also, don't forget all the books for very small children, and, well, professional illustrators in general, those we see in Comickers and such.
By "Comickers", do you mean that book series called Japanese Comickers?
quote:
Anime and video games overlap a little bit so if you're mainly interested in those two subcultures or similar subcultures, it'll naturally mean that all you'll see are similar art styles, because that is the style that is most suitable to these target markets.

That is why you'll never see mainstream games like Dragon Quest or the majority of Nintendo's games featuring moe art, because they're targeted towards the wider mainstream audience.

Actually, isn't isn't moe art pervading the mainstream more nowdays? Shining Force Feather, for instance...





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"Re(3):Interesting art styles..." , posted Sun 21 Sep 07:05post reply

quote:
As much as I do find that kind of stuff interesting, I was hoping to find ones done more by hand than computer.
Art nouveau is a late XIXth century/XXth century style, so...

quote:
By "Comickers", do you mean that book series called Japanese Comickers?

I don't know the one you're refering to, I was refering to this magazine.

quote:
Actually, isn't isn't moe art pervading the mainstream more nowdays? Shining Force Feather, for instance...

Shining Force... mainstream ?





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"Re(1):Interesting art styles..." , posted Sun 21 Sep 08:26post reply

quote:

I'm curious as to the kind of artstyle the general representatives of MMCafe actually find interest in. I'm pretty sure Shinkiro will be mentioned somewhere here, maybe even Amano, but I'm also looking for stylized 2D qualities that are unique to certain artists and not have the copy-paste faces that others can easily replicate.



Could you tell me some artists you liked from the early 90's? Personally, I think that was a very bad time for art, like...everything was kind of tacky. But that's just a generally speaking, as there were plenty of good artists, too. But what I'm saying is if you tell me who you like(d) maybe I can understand what you're looking for a little better.

There are a few random manga that look cool (that maybe no one is reading?) that I recommend, though.

Dorohedoro is one of my all-time favorites and has a really unique, highly-detailed style.

Koukoku no Shugosha, despite being difficult to read (for me at least) and overflowing with saber tooth tigers, has a neat retro style.

I also really liked Go Go Heaven, which feels like...I dunno, like it's alive on the page.

It may also be worth mentioning to Akiman fans that he has a (one volume) Turn A Gundam manga out. Also, although Kinu doesn't do the art, I still highly recommend the King Gainer manga.

Speaking of Gankutsuo, I highly recommend the manga. It's drawn by the director and it's real...uhm...sketchy. Really unique look.





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sfried
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"Re(2):Interesting art styles..." , posted Sun 21 Sep 11:01:post reply

quote:
There are a few random manga that look cool (that maybe no one is reading?) that I recommend, though.

Dorohedoro is one of my all-time favorites and has a really unique, highly-detailed style.

Koukoku no Shugosha, despite being difficult to read (for me at least) and overflowing with saber tooth tigers, has a neat retro style.

I also really liked Go Go Heaven, which feels like...I dunno, like it's alive on the page.

It may also be worth mentioning to Akiman fans that he has a (one volume) Turn A Gundam manga out. Also, although Kinu doesn't do the art, I still highly recommend the King Gainer manga.

Speaking of Gankutsuo, I highly recommend the manga. It's drawn by the director and it's real...uhm...sketchy. Really unique look.

Those are some good ones. I can't believe I forgot about Akiman.

I think I mentioned on the other thread this one artist, but it had to do more with the use of lighting than the character designs perse, so to mee his work has a different feel from show to show.





[this message was edited by sfried on Sun 21 Sep 11:02]

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"Re(3):Interesting art styles..." , posted Sun 21 Sep 12:09post reply

I'll start with K2R (Katsura) since he's already been mentioned above. I wasn't pleased with, well, ANY of the anime adaptations from his work, but I totally dig his manga, and like Toxico said he did, every now and then, make a 'super-panel' with extra attention to detail (especially in Video Girl Ai). I read an interview with him once in Animerica Xtra where he said that he once struggled with a disabled hand or something and completely lost his ability to draw, then had to work his way back up again from nothing, making marked improvements in the process. Moving along.

Mad props to all the SNK designers, there's something unique in each one of their styles. Of course I loved Shinkiro's semi-realistic style (esp. after '98 when his coloring improved dramatically) despite the Charlie-Sheen-ism, and Nona definately revolutionized KOF for better or worse (again, his initial work in '01 wasn't THAT great, and there were some oddities in '02 like shark-Yamazaki and Iori's pompadour OF DOOM! but he picked up some interesting new coloring skills that impressed me - Kim's art sticks out in my mind for some reason). Falcoon ... I was a big fan early on, when his fanart was just hyper-stylized original takes on the characters. But after he started working for SNK it got real old, real quick. Seriously, every single fighter having frosted tips and streaks really started to piss me off, not to mention garbage like Chief Ralf and Mignon in general.

On the U.S. side, Alex Ross is always a hit. Daniel Acuna did some sweeeet work on Flash a while back in a semi-anime style that was really interesting and original. Frank Quitely (often paired up with Frank Morrison) does good work, see All-Star Superman for reference. The best new artist I've encountered recently is J.H. Williams III, who did art for the "Club of Heroes" arc of Batman. His use of color and texture are out of this world, and he had the coolest layouts for his panels. His top feat, in my eyes anyway, was this: the arc dealt with some off-panel wonders that had popped up over the years, and he depicted each one in a different Batman artstyle from the past (one in Frank Miller style, one in Mike Grell, etc), yet also managed to keep it tight and cohesive. I urgently reccomend you guys to check out the arc, in Batman #664, 665, and 667 (666 was the special "hell" issue, and pretty cool too, but I think that may have been a different artist).





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"Re(1):Interesting art styles..." , posted Mon 22 Sep 00:46post reply

quote:
I'm curious as to the kind of artstyle the general representatives of MMCafe actually find interest in. I'm pretty sure Shinkiro will be mentioned somewhere here, maybe even Amano, but I'm also looking for stylized 2D qualities that are unique to certain artists and not have the copy-paste faces that others can easily replicate.



A fascinating topic indeed.

Realistic/naturalistic stuff =/= quality stuff in my book. I mean, if I want lifelike realism I will keep with 16th century Dutch paintings; if I want a slightly more crazy stuff, then either Botticelli or his 19th century heirs, the pre-raphaelites, will do. But when it comes to popular art, then I don't want lifelike realism. That's why I like postwar japanese aesthetic (call it "manga style" if you want) so much.

For example, these days I'm rediscovering the work Fujishima Kousuke did on early 90s and it's even more awesome than I remembered. Not that his current stylized, kind of minimalist style is bad, tough.

Artistically speaking, I'd also recommend to try some 70s manga if you truly like japanese style. Amazing stuff. I totally love the pureness and strenght that Ashita no Joe's drawings exude.





sfried
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"Re(2):Interesting art styles..." , posted Mon 22 Sep 05:33:post reply

quote:
Artistically speaking, I'd also recommend to try some 70s manga if you truly like japanese style. Amazing stuff. I totally love the pureness and strenght that Ashita no Joe's drawings exude.

Can you name some (other) specifics of 70's manga?





[this message was edited by sfried on Mon 22 Sep 06:15]

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"Re(3):Interesting art styles..." , posted Mon 22 Sep 07:39post reply

quote:

Can you name some (other) specifics of 70's manga?



Sure!

Tezuka never gets old, but my favourite thing is the jidaigeki (historical) stuff: anything from Sanpei Shirato, Goseki Kojima and/or Hiroshi Hirata is worth the read. Some of their works are totally mind blowing.

The 70s were as well the golden age of the avantgarde magazine Garo (named after one of Kamui Den's characters), so if you like more awkward/artish comic styles, that's one interesting thing to look for. I once saw there an awesome jidaigeki serial with ukiyoe style drawings, shame I can't remember the title nor the author...





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"Re(4):Interesting art styles..." , posted Thu 25 Sep 11:09post reply

What are MMCafe's opinion on artists like Yoji Shinkawa?





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"Re(5):Interesting art styles..." , posted Thu 25 Sep 11:19post reply

quote:
What are MMCafe's opinion on artists like Yoji Shinkawa?



Yoji Shinkawa is amazing. I had a professor at College that was a super excellent oil painter in the classical vein. We used to show him alot of contemporary comic/anime/videogame artists to see what he thought. The only person he was ever impressed by was Shinkawa cos of his masterful and innovative control of brush strokes.





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"Re(6):Interesting art styles..." , posted Wed 3 Dec 18:18post reply

Yet again I'm looking for inspiration.

Are there any sketchy artstyles out there? It seems nowdays the design seems to be geared more towards efficiecy and using less lines, but it makes some characters look rather flat. A perfect example would be the sylization of hair highlights from the past from todays look.

I was hoping to look for more artists that still have that sentiment for detail. I am aware overall composition is important, but I really like it when they go all over with lines. I'm a pencil kind of guy, which is why I'm trying to looks for more sites which reveal the inner workings or "assembly" of their compositions.





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"Re(7):Interesting art styles..." , posted Wed 3 Dec 21:30post reply

quote:
Are there any sketchy artstyles out there? It seems nowdays the design seems to be geared more towards efficiecy and using less lines, but it makes some characters look rather flat. A perfect example would be the sylization of hair highlights from the past from todays look.

I'm not sure AT ALL if that's what you're looking for or the exact opposite, but would it be something like Tsuchibayashi Makoto's art ?
He is the character designer of Bio Hazard, DMC, Kunoichi, Shinobi, and more importantly Sengoku Basara 1 and 2 (and Matsunaga in Heroes).

Design Works here, googleage there, more in the wallpaper sections of Basara 1 and 2 official sites. (Hideyoshi, Masamune or Wakamoto and his ho for example).





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"Re(7):Interesting art styles..." , posted Wed 3 Dec 21:50:post reply

quote:

I was hoping to look for more artists that still have that sentiment for detail. I am aware overall composition is important, but I really like it when they go all over with lines. I'm a pencil kind of guy, which is why I'm trying to looks for more sites which reveal the inner workings or "assembly" of their compositions.



He is something of an irregular, but Jyoji "George" Morikawa sometimes properly represent decent amount of detail (I think he was a pysichal trainer prior to being mangaka). With a quick view at his work you can clearly see how much he has improved through the years. From incredible looking dull characters to somewhat tough looking guys. He does, however, has amateurish faults like not giving each character enough "distintive features", not properly creating "a bibe" for certain characters.

Usually his draws are good when he is trying to represent extremely hard impacts or internal damage, which aren't that often found in the book. Puar has kindly uploaded & translated almost every chapter up to date Art wise I wouldn't advice that much looking at the beggining, but perhaps it might help you to notice how his style has evolved slowly.... very slowly.

Also, I think this is the only shonen that actually properly represent a "fighter's mind set", from fear, to confidence, initiative and several other feelings and perspectives (specially in the beggining); but that's not truly on topic.







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[this message was edited by Toxico on Wed 3 Dec 21:52]

sfried
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"Re(8):Interesting art styles..." , posted Thu 4 Dec 06:16:post reply

quote:
I'm not sure AT ALL if that's what you're looking for or the exact opposite, but would it be something like Tsuchibayashi Makoto's art ?
He is the character designer of Bio Hazard, DMC, Kunoichi, Shinobi, and more importantly Sengoku Basara 1 and 2 (and Matsunaga in Heroes).

Seems alot like Yoji Shinkawa's (painterly). What I meant to say was artists who leave their rough drafts in their webpages or have pencil sketches. An interesting example would be Masaki Hirooka's website, where most of his stuff on the main page is just doodles and sketches (not necessarily final compositions). It's really interesting just looking at it and seeing how they constructed their work and the rpocesses they use.

quote:
He is something of an irregular, but Jyoji "George" Morikawa sometimes properly represent decent amount of detail (I think he was a pysichal trainer prior to being mangaka). With a quick view at his work you can clearly see how much he has improved through the years. From incredible looking dull characters to somewhat tough looking guys. He does, however, has amateurish faults like not giving each character enough "distintive features", not properly creating "a bibe" for certain characters.
...
Art wise I wouldn't advice that much looking at the beggining, but perhaps it might help you to notice how his style has evolved slowly.... very slowly.

He seems to have adopted hard lines throughout his work, although you might not have understood what I was looking for. I was looking for artists websites that sometimes posts rough drafts of their work. I was just hoping for more artists like Masakazu Katsura that do posts some drafts/sketches here and there.





[this message was edited by sfried on Thu 4 Dec 06:25]

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"Re(9):Interesting art styles..." , posted Tue 30 Dec 15:02post reply

Speaking of versatile artists, I also stumbled upon Westvill Graphics website while looking at the links at Hirooka's website. I'm kind of amazed when very few artists can switch back and forth between the typical "anime big-eyed" to some seriously slick looking stylization like this one can. I really want to know more artists that have the ability to have more than just their one "trademark style" and really branch out between works. It's different from "art evolution" in that they begin to develop two or more styles instead of mere constant refinement refine like other artists mentioned (i.e. Kosuke Fujishima)...not that there's anything wrong with refinement, but it isn't quite as unique.