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Shindekudasai
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"New Dissidia Thread" , posted Sun 29 Jun 16:06post reply

New Trailer, new thread! No new characters announced but that trailer looks BADASS. It's so cool to see classic characters given the respect they deserve (unlike say, Setzer's treatment in Kingdom Hearts or anyone in Castlevania: Judgement). I don't know if this game will have tag or some type of coop-2-player mode, but I really hope so because by watching some of the team-ups/match-ups in that trailer (Tidus and Zidane tagging off, Squall's running duel with Sephiroth, etc) I already know that this game will rock out of this world. I'll be counting the days 'til I see Cecil, Batz, Terra, the Dark Cloud, Golbez?/Zeromus?, Exdeath?/Gilgamesh? and Kefka.






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"Re(1):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Sun 29 Jun 18:19post reply

I was a little disappointed with the generic voice acting, but I couldn't help but delight in watching the game in motion. I dunno if it'll be any good or not, but I'm sold on the novelty at least.

I like their commitment to using villains, but the problem is, with having nothing but villain/hero types, the cast might turn out a little boring. Well that...and none of the characters I like will make the cut (I guess I'm looking forward to Cecil, though).





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"Re(2):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Sun 29 Jun 18:40post reply

quote:
I like their commitment to using villains, but the problem is, with having nothing but villain/hero types, the cast might turn out a little boring. Well that...and none of the characters I like will make the cut (I guess I'm looking forward to Cecil, though).


Yeah, I'd love to see Faris, Edgar and Vincent, but I doubt they'll make it.

The game looks cool, but I'm pretty skeptical at how will it play.





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"Re(3):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 01:36post reply

quote:


The game looks cool, but I'm pretty skeptical at how will it play.

I guess the question there is...anyone remember whatever happened to Dream Factory? Tobal 2 is one of the great fighting games and one of the best things to come out of Square's creative non-RPG PSone era, but...





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"Re(4):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 02:23:post reply

I'm just amazed that they haven't shown (that I know of) Cloud yet. I mean you know he's gonna be in it so it's not like it'd be a surprise or anything...

quote:

I guess the question there is...anyone remember whatever happened to Dream Factory? Tobal 2 is one of the great fighting games and one of the best things to come out of Square's creative non-RPG PSone era, but...



I owned Tobal 1 and thought it was an okay game - interesting but not great. I never played T2 but I've always heard such high praise. So I'm curious, what additions made T2 such a great game? The only changes I'm aware of from T12 to T2 were the addition of projectiles.





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[this message was edited by Variable Savior on Mon 30 Jun 02:24]

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"Re(4):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 04:02post reply

quote:

I guess the question there is...anyone remember whatever happened to Dream Factory? Tobal 2 is one of the great fighting games and one of the best things to come out of Square's creative non-RPG PSone era, but...



They're still around! I'm always watching them. They drop new titles every now and then, but I'm way behind. Didn't play that Fighting Beauty Wulong game for PS2, or the Naruto DS fighter they did that just came out in the US. But Crimson Tears rules! Get that if you didn't back then. Also fuck the Kakuto Chojin haters.

http://drf.co.jp





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"Re(5):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 04:16post reply

Personally i'm disappointed this is coming to PSP, imagine if it were ported to PS3 and Square tried off trying to imitate Amano's visuals in 3D with cel shading and seeing if they could somehow render a scratchy pen & ink effect.





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"Re(5):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 05:18post reply

quote:
I owned Tobal 1 and thought it was an okay game - interesting but not great. I never played T2 but I've always heard such high praise. So I'm curious, what additions made T2 such a great game? The only changes I'm aware of from T12 to T2 were the addition of projectiles.

Yeah, I never played 1, but I do hear that you can't judge 2 by one. 2 is just...excellent. Before Soul Calibur did it, Tobal 2 had 8way run, meaning that you jumped with a trigger and not with up, which moved you into the background. Characters can "grapple," making it feel like a real fight. Even more significant is the fact that in most fighting games, when an attack is blocked, the attack animation continues "through" the defender. In Tobal 2, a blocked move is literally stopped by your blocking opponent, which in turn can lead back to grappling. It was also a beautifully fluid 60fps game back in its day, and it's still utterly fun today.





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"Re(5):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 06:42post reply

quote:
I owned Tobal 1 and thought it was an okay game - interesting but not great. I never played T2 but I've always heard such high praise. So I'm curious, what additions made T2 such a great game? The only changes I'm aware of from T12 to T2 were the addition of projectiles.



Off the top of my head (it's been a while since I played either game):
-more complex combo and juggle system
-VF-like timed moves
-fakes
-charging unblockables/ projectiles
-dizzies
-stances
-more grapple situations
-more uniqueness in character movesets
-custom colors for every regular character
-improved adventure mode
-deep and helpful practice mode and tutorial

Yeah I wasn't too impressed with Tobal #1 either, but I was blown away by the changes to Tobal 2. These days they're nothing new but back then they were pretty revolutionary. In fact there's still some stuff it does that I have yet to see other fighters do, like having a framerate option in practice mode which makes it easier to practice timed moves.





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"Tobal 2 thread mutiny" , posted Mon 30 Jun 07:46:post reply

Gojira's got it right! I really can't emphasize how interesting and unusual it is that moves that are blocked stop as if they impacted the blocking opponent, rather than just passing through their bodies like every other fighting game. I wouldn't be surprised if the newer Virtua Fighters do this, too, but my friends and I could never stay focused on those.

The fluidity of Tobal 2 is really what makes it special, especially for its time. The fluidity of the blocked attacks is one good example, but so too is the great 3D movement, the solid and realistic feeling of trading blows, the fact that you trip if you sidestep too quickly, and do it in a realistic and fluid way... All the delightful extras Gojira mentions are great, too. It really is the only 3D early fighter besides Soul Calibur that holds up despite its age.


edit: THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT TOBAL 2





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[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 30 Jun 07:48]

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"Re(6):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 08:19post reply

quote:
I owned Tobal 1 and thought it was an okay game - interesting but not great. I never played T2 but I've always heard such high praise. So I'm curious, what additions made T2 such a great game? The only changes I'm aware of from T12 to T2 were the addition of projectiles.


Off the top of my head (it's been a while since I played either game):
-more complex combo and juggle system
-VF-like timed moves
-fakes
-charging unblockables/ projectiles
-dizzies
-stances
-more grapple situations
-more uniqueness in character movesets
-custom colors for every regular character
-improved adventure mode
-deep and helpful practice mode and tutorial

Yeah I wasn't too impressed with Tobal #1 either, but I was blown away by the changes to Tobal 2. These days they're nothing new but back then they were pretty revolutionary. In fact there's still some stuff it does that I have yet to see other fighters do, like having a framerate option in practice mode which makes it easier to practice timed moves.



VF actually does let you slow down the action during training to get move timing correct. It also lets you turn on a frame measurement so you can see exactly when it needs to be done. This and the rest of it are the things that made the various training modes in VF4 and VF4Evo so outstanding (and make me miss the main training mode from VF5).





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"Re(6):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 11:57post reply

quote:
In fact there's still some stuff it does that I have yet to see other fighters do, like having a framerate option in practice mode which makes it easier to practice timed moves.


More important than slowing the game was the button display that lit up for every possible follow-up move to whatever you'd just pressed. You didn't really need a move list screen, because you just had to tap a button and see what lit up afterwards. (Well, you almost didn't need a move list.)

I honestly didn't use the slow-down option much. I didn't really need it with the display. It also helped that Just Frame moves had a sparkling effect, so you knew when you hit one versus hitting a regular move.

All in all, the whole package came together to make it really easy to learn all the moves. The simple motions, that the same motions were used by all the characters (or at least all the characters that could do something, in the case of ground throws and the special grapple motion), everything...





Shindekudasai
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"Re(1):Tobal 2 thread mutiny" , posted Mon 30 Jun 12:10post reply

I never played, or heard of, Tobal before. Is it available in English?

...does it even need to be in English if it's a fighting game?





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"Re(6):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 12:38post reply

quote:
I owned Tobal 1 and thought it was an okay game - interesting but not great. I never played T2 but I've always heard such high praise. So I'm curious, what additions made T2 such a great game? The only changes I'm aware of from T12 to T2 were the addition of projectiles.


Off the top of my head (it's been a while since I played either game):
-more complex combo and juggle system
-VF-like timed moves
-fakes
-charging unblockables/ projectiles
-dizzies
-stances
-more grapple situations
-more uniqueness in character movesets
-custom colors for every regular character
-improved adventure mode
-deep and helpful practice mode and tutorial

Yeah I wasn't too impressed with Tobal #1 either, but I was blown away by the changes to Tobal 2. These days they're nothing new but back then they were pretty revolutionary. In fact there's still some stuff it does that I have yet to see other fighters do, like having a framerate option in practice mode which makes it easier to practice timed moves.



Yes! Tobal no 2 love! Tobal 2 is still my favorite 3d fighting game! Its grappling system is more satisfying and even more realistic than anything that's come since. Also, don't forget the Quest Mode where you beat down then capture hundreds of monsters that you can then use in VS mode.

All the comments on the well done side stepping system and blocking system are spot on. The animation is also awesome, and the graphics still look great.

Actually, I really enjoyed the naturalistic lighting and colors in Tobal. I much prefer them to the Neopolitan Icecream color scheme that Soul Calibur and so many other games have adopted in recent times.





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"Re(7):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 12:54post reply

Even more importantly...it has...GREN CUTS! Hahahah 勝つ, it never gets old.





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Baines
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"Re(7):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Mon 30 Jun 15:41post reply

quote:
Yes! Tobal no 2 love! Tobal 2 is still my favorite 3d fighting game! Its grappling system is more satisfying and even more realistic than anything that's come since. Also, don't forget the Quest Mode where you beat down then capture hundreds of monsters that you can then use in VS mode.


Unfortunately, while the game boasted 185 monsters in addition to the full roster and hidden characters, most of the monsters were just model swaps. There were only a few movesets shared amongst the monsters. Worse, most of the movesets were extremely limited compared to the regular roster. This generally made playing monsters both a major handicap and simply boring.

As well, while all monsters were playable, some were not particularly "playable." The piledriver robots were slow and had only a couple of linear attacks. From what I recall, the magician lost life with nearly every attack he performed (as they were all projectiles.) About the only thing the three totems could do was fly away when you used the grow/shrink cheat.





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"Re(2):Tobal 2 thread mutiny" , posted Tue 1 Jul 05:35post reply

quote:
I never played, or heard of, Tobal before. Is it available in English?



No, not to my knowledge. At least there's no official translation. Maybe a patch somewhere, but really I have no idea.

quote:

...does it even need to be in English if it's a fighting game?



For the fighting part, no. Though if you want to get the most out of quest mode, it helps.





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"Tobal 2 English status" , posted Tue 1 Jul 06:33post reply

Tobal No. 1 was released in English.

Tobal 2 was never officially released in English, but a fan did an English translation patch.

As a fighter, Tobal 2 is playable without Japanese knowledge. Quest Mode is a different issue. At the very least, you need to be able to recognize different kanji and kana words, preferably on sight.

The translation patch does translate Quest Mode, as well as any menus that weren't already in English. It doesn't do anything with the tutorial video, but you don't really need the tutorial video. (Heck, many people probably never noticed that there *was* a tutorial video.)

The patch requires an ISO of the game. The homepage of the patch tells you how to create such an ISO from a legitimate disc. (There are a couple of patches, as there are apparently a couple of versions of the game.) Though it might take a little trial and error going this route, with some software not working with some hardware and some image creation methods doing bad things to PS1 games.

Of course, most people online probably just search for and find an already patched ISO.

Some PS1 emulators can have issues with Tobal 2. You might need to try around a bit to find something that works correctly.





Shindekudasai
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"Onion Knight & Dark Cloud confirmed" , posted Thu 31 Jul 15:44post reply

with totally new Nomura designs. I think the Onion Knight looks like an FF3 version of Cloud, and no complaints about DC's new design.

http://gamekyo.com/images0_4_28415.html





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"Re(1):Onion Knight & Dark Cloud confirmed" , posted Thu 31 Jul 18:34post reply

quote:
with totally new Nomura designs. I think the Onion Knight looks like an FF3 version of Cloud, and no complaints about DC's new design.



He rather reminds me more of Roxas...
No complaints with either design, though. Onion looks similar to the original sprite, and I didn't ever get to see Dark Cloud (She does look good, though ), so...





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Shindekudasai
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"FF4/5/6 villains" , posted Sun 3 Aug 16:46post reply

No sauce at this point, but folks at the snk-capcom.com forums have mentioned confirmations for Golbez(a), Exdeath, and Kefka. Can't wait to see their designs.





Shindekudasai
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"Amano promo poster" , posted Wed 6 Aug 01:01post reply

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/9/9e/Dissidia_artwork_poster.jpg

Amano art for the confirmed villains floating around Chaos. Kefka/Exdeath/Golbez? Judge for yourself. Kefka on the right next to the logo, Exdeath above the Cloud of Darkness, and someone on the left hand side that looks rather Zemus-y.





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"Re(1):Amano promo poster" , posted Wed 6 Aug 01:30post reply

quote:
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/9/9e/Dissidia_artwork_poster.jpg

Amano art for the confirmed villains floating around Chaos. Kefka/Exdeath/Golbez? Judge for yourself. Kefka on the right next to the logo, Exdeath above the Cloud of Darkness, and someone on the left hand side that looks rather Zemus-y.



Wow, I was going to say, not that "poster" again. But then I actually clicked the link and saw someone FINALLY got a better picture of it, a LQ one was in circulation for MONTHS and you couldn't see a thing.





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"Re(1):Amano promo poster" , posted Wed 6 Aug 12:47post reply

quote:
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/9/9e/Dissidia_artwork_poster.jpg

Amano art for the confirmed villains floating around Chaos. Kefka/Exdeath/Golbez? Judge for yourself. Kefka on the right next to the logo, Exdeath above the Cloud of Darkness, and someone on the left hand side that looks rather Zemus-y.

Cefca? I don't see that. I see a bikini'd figure, which could either be Yunalesca or Kuja I suppose. Granted, he should go on since I see Chaos, Sephiroth, Kuja (?), probably Garland on the left, Golbeza (maybe) on the bottom...





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Shindekudasai
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"Re(2):Amano promo poster" , posted Mon 11 Aug 18:47post reply

New pics and info at the Magic Box. Onion Knight can change jobs to either Ninja (dual-wielding!) or Sage. Cloud of Darkness (this is going to get so annoying when they finally confirm Cloud Strife for the game...) has a special that turns her green (like in the NES game if you didn't meet certain conditions and couldn't beat her). Also more pics of Tidus, Jecht (with some kind of alternate form. Sin? I didn't play X), Trance Kuja, Zidane, etc. Go look!





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"Re(1):New Dissidia Thread" , posted Tue 12 Aug 02:39post reply

I miss Tobal 2 and Dreamfactory.

I was playing EHERGZIEZEZEE or whatever the hell it's called. Also by Dream Factory. It tries some interesting new ideas.

I love some of the core concepts in these games. Fighting games have stopped being experimental :(





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"Re(3):Amano promo poster" , posted Tue 12 Aug 15:17post reply

quote:
New pics and info at the Magic Box. Onion Knight can change jobs to either Ninja (dual-wielding!) or Sage. Cloud of Darkness (this is going to get so annoying when they finally confirm Cloud Strife for the game...) has a special that turns her green (like in the NES game if you didn't meet certain conditions and couldn't beat her). Also more pics of Tidus, Jecht (with some kind of alternate form. Sin? I didn't play X), Trance Kuja, Zidane, etc. Go look!



Cloud of Darkness was always an awful name; remembering Cloud having a good chance of being in the game (he hasn't been 'officially' confirmed, has he?) makes it worse.

Jecht in that form doesn't really look like anything from FFX. His BFA form looks quite different from that (unless I've got a horrible memory of it).





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"cloud/Cloud name issue" , posted Tue 12 Aug 16:36post reply

quote:
Cloud of Darkness (this is going to get so annoying when they finally confirm Cloud Strife for the game...)



Her name is 暗闇の雲 (kurayami no kumo) so there is no problem at all in the current version of the game, which is intended for Japanese players. In fact, there will only be a problem in the US/UK version, in which Cloud shares an homonym with the FFIII boss; in other translations, I believe the name of the FFIII boss is properly adapted to each language while the FFVII protagonist's name remained "Cloud" or was changed to "Clad", depending on the country.

One can understand why the US translator for final Fantasy III DS did not really consider FFVII (or FF Dissidia) when trying to provide the most accurate translation for the original name of the final boss. Of course on the business side, it would have been more careful to avoid this confusion but translators rarely adopt a marketing approach to their job.

The translator of Dissidia could possibly change her name to "The Mist of Darkness" or something along those lines, if this proves to be a serious issue. The target audience for FF Dissidia probably does not give a crap about any of the Famicom characters anyway, so I doubt they'd make a big fuss out of the name change.





IT'S THE BLACK PUDDING!

Shindekudasai
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"Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sat 23 Aug 13:49post reply

Before seeing this video I was excited for the game. Afterwards, I am absolutely sold on it!

Onion Knight VS Cloud of Darkness

The stage, the music, the victory fanfare ... sheer perfection.





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"Re(1):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sat 23 Aug 15:15post reply

I like it! Now give me a US release date!





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"Re(2):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sat 23 Aug 15:46post reply

quote:
I like it! Now give me a US release date!



Wow. It's super busy. Looks like ... FF plus Virtua On :p





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"Re(3):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sat 23 Aug 21:01post reply

Instead of Virtual on this remind me Dragonball Tenkaichi and so on. Not necessarily a bad thing, though.
Who is Cloud of darkness? I don't recognize that character exept being a childish version of FF7 Cloud. °_°





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"Re(4):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sat 23 Aug 23:11post reply

I also see the Budokai Tenkaichi thing, and it kind of excites me. I really liked those games, sort of took the "DBZ sim" thing that Legends had going and turned it up.





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"Re(5):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sun 24 Aug 02:16post reply

quote:
I also see the Budokai Tenkaichi thing, and it kind of excites me. I really liked those games, sort of took the "DBZ sim" thing that Legends had going and turned it up.



It looks like the Kingdom Hearts battle system to me. Maybe I'm mistaken though since I only played the first game once and the second game for 3 hours.





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"Re(6):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sun 24 Aug 02:40post reply

Now, see, thought like that troubles me. Because KH sucks a dumpster full of dead dog dicks. That would just ruin everything.





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"Re(7):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sun 24 Aug 09:19post reply

The supers were so nostalgia filled... Beautiful.

Why do the stages have to be so bland though?





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"Re(4):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sun 24 Aug 18:02post reply

quote:
Who is Cloud of darkness? I don't recognize that character exept being a childish version of FF7 Cloud. °_°


Since nobody bothered : the Cloud of Darkness is actually the female character, the final boss of FF3. The boy is the onion knight, protagonist of the same game.





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"Re(5):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sun 24 Aug 18:16post reply

The question was indirectly answered before it was asked.

Original version
NDS version





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"Re(5):Actual gameplay footage!" , posted Sun 24 Aug 18:32post reply

quote:
Who is Cloud of darkness? I don't recognize that character exept being a childish version of FF7 Cloud. °_°

Since nobody bothered : the Cloud of Darkness is actually the female character, the final boss of FF3. The boy is the onion knight, protagonist of the same game.



Ok. I completely miss the NES part of the saga so I don't know ANYTHING related to that games.
So, no Chocobo in Dissidia already?





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"Full Trailer!" , posted Thu 4 Sep 23:32:post reply

There's a Tidus vs Jecht uploaded around too, but, more important:

Full Trailer - http://www.square-enix.co.jp/dissidia/movie/pv.flv

Kefka: Why so serious?

Don't you think? He looks... Don't know, too skinny, that's definitely not how I remembered him from the sprite.
But I gotta admit that it is true to Amano's original design. (Speaking from memory here, didn't check)

Oh, and what about that "hihihi..." laugh?
Where's Kefka's bitchy "HOHOHOHO!"?
They'd better have kept it. ņ_ó


Otherwise, pretty epic standard trailer stuff.

I like the irony of how the bad guys keep telling the good ones they're but pawns in the eternal gods' fight... And the game outside battles IS indeed a board one.





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[this message was edited by Sensenic on Thu 4 Sep 23:35]

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"Re(1):Full Trailer!" , posted Fri 5 Sep 00:01post reply

Man I was expecting to see FF6 characters appear because Kefka was talking about "that girl" but she never appeared!

This game has a great male:female ratio.





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"Re(1):Full Trailer!" , posted Fri 5 Sep 00:20:post reply

quote:

But I gotta admit that it is true to Amano's original design. (Speaking from memory here, didn't check)



I guess they sticked to this ...

Bonus: Amano sketch

quote:
This game has a great male:female ratio.



Considering the new re - designs that Square Soft has been putting out, I actually think that the game almost completely lacks male character representation.





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[this message was edited by Toxico on Fri 5 Sep 00:26]

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"Re(2):Full Trailer!" , posted Fri 5 Sep 00:23post reply

quote:
Man I was expecting to see FF6 characters appear because Kefka was talking about "that girl" but she never appeared!


Tell me about it ;_;

quote:

This game has a great male:female ratio.



Certainly...

It was bound to happen if they're gonna use only main characters and evil guys, though...

I'm hoping they'll include other hidden characters, aside from the main story, and that might include women...

Then again, they'll probably leave that for the sequel. (At least it'll probably reach FFXIII and we may get Lightning... ^_^; )





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Gojira
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"Re(3):Full Trailer!" , posted Fri 5 Sep 07:35:post reply

I thought I saw a female silhouette on the far left at the beginning of the trailer when they're all standing around under lightning. Given the androgynous designs though I guess it could have just been Locke or something. Do we know who all ten of them are yet?





shipoopi

[this message was edited by Gojira on Fri 5 Sep 07:37]

nobinobita
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"Re(4):Amano promo poster" , posted Fri 5 Sep 21:35post reply

quote:

Cloud of Darkness was always an awful name; remembering Cloud having a good chance of being in the game (he hasn't been 'officially' confirmed, has he?) makes it worse.



I'm more annoyed that they made a character named Rikku and then another one named Riku.





Maou
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"Re(5):Amano promo poster" , posted Sat 6 Sep 09:01post reply

Surprisingly fun video! Squall's voice is fun. They seem to have forgotten that Zidane's a pervy young dude and not a 9 year old when casting him, meanwhile. Cefca is...weird. I don't know what I ever imagined his voice sounding like in my head when I read his lines, but it definitely wasn't like that.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

Shindekudasai
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"Serious analysis and less-serious rambling" , posted Sat 6 Sep 16:32post reply

Figures, I spend a day offline job-hunting and this comes out. Kefka ... I'm a little shocked, but at least Nomura's really sticking to the Amano desings. And let's face it, it could be worse. In other news, as pointed out in the thread on the snk-capcom.com forums, alternate costumes have been confirmed. I couldn't find a good still of the models themselves in the video, but you can clearly see portraits of Squall in his Seed uniform, and Frionel's other Amano design from an FF2 poster (the one with horned headgear and a red cape). Anyone wanna play the alternate-costume guessing game?

Light Warrior: he's already got a class-change in game, so the fighter/knight thing is out.
Garland: Chaos? No idea.
Emperor: Hell Emperor?
Onion Knight: They've got so many other classes to pick from, this one's up in the air. Perhaps the Luneth design from FF3DS.
Cloud of Darkness: I've seen screens of her in old skool green, might be her alt.
Cecil: Paladin and Dark Knight. I'm calling it now.
Golbez: ...Theodore from FF4DS? ::shrug::
Exdeath: Neo-Exdeath
Terra: Morph!
Kefka: Angelic-boss looking
Cloud: assuming one look will be 7, the other AC.
Sephiroth: One-Winged Angel
Ultimecia: Edea? Dunno.
Zidane: "Black-cloaked man"? Also dunno.
Kuja: Don't care.
Tidus: Y'know, they said they redesigned him for this game but I really don't see a diff. Original outfit? Or that dude from FFX-2? (also don't care).
Jecht: You guessed it, don't care!

...You know the Circle of Sages in FF1? And the Circle of Gurgans in 3? I want to see a Circle of Cids in this game.

Seriously.





Iggy
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"Re(1):Serious analysis and less-serious rambl" , posted Sat 6 Sep 18:01post reply

quote:
...You know the Circle of Sages in FF1? And the Circle of Gurgans in 3? I want to see a Circle of Cids in this game.

That might very well be the most interesting idea they could put in the game. I like it. Also, fat chance.





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"Re(1):Serious analysis and less-serious rambl" , posted Mon 8 Sep 17:23post reply

quote:
Terra: Morph!
Kefka: Angelic-boss looking
Sephiroth: One-Winged Angel



These ones I'm guessing rather than their alternate outfit it'll most likely be their "EX Mode" (Trance, morph, you name it)

Just like Ultimecia's is her final form fused with... Gryphus was its name? her liony summon thing. Or Zidane's is his own (furry) trance form. (Already seen in trailers/screens these 2)





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Shindekudasai
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"Re(2):Serious analysis and less-serious rambl" , posted Tue 9 Sep 10:03post reply

Just some thoughts that came off the top of my head. Having had a few days to mull it over, Cloud will probably have a Zack re-skin, and Sephiroth will be shirtless like in Cloud's final fantasy from VII. It would be interesting if we got Celes instead of Terra, they could easily re-skin her with the opera dress. Onion Knight will probably have a design closer to that on the cover of 3 (the one Luneth was based on, armored up, crossed swords, white ponytail, if no one knows what I'm talking about I'll post the image). I'm actually going through my whole Amano collection now trying to figure this shit out.





Shindekudasai
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"Cecil and Golbez confirmed and looking great!" , posted Fri 12 Sep 05:49post reply

http://www.psphyper.com/psp/dark-knight-cecil-confirmed-for-dissidia/

The URL is misleading, as Cecil can swap between Paladin and Dark Knight. I would assume that DK is the default form but don't know for sure. I could do without the gold streaks on his armor but it's only a minor quibble. Golbez ... looks fucking scary, and I wouldn't have it any other way :) If you dug Garland's new digs then click above.

/joygasm





Maou
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"Re(1):Cecil and Golbez confirmed and looking" , posted Fri 12 Sep 08:36post reply

quote:
http://www.psphyper.com/psp/dark-knight-cecil-confirmed-for-dissidia/

The URL is misleading, as Cecil can swap between Paladin and Dark Knight. I would assume that DK is the default form but don't know for sure. I could do without the gold streaks on his armor but it's only a minor quibble. Golbez ... looks fucking scary, and I wouldn't have it any other way :) If you dug Garland's new digs then click above.

/joygasm

Oh, Golbeza! Actually, Amano's take was still much more menacing to me because of the whispiness of the drawing that made him look like a black cloud. Not bad, though.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

Grave
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"Re(2):Cecil and Golbez confirmed and looking" , posted Fri 12 Sep 14:01post reply

The character art for Dissidia gives me a big ol' boner. I think this is the first time I've felt this way about Nomura since... Parasite Eve and the Bouncer, I guess. I don't really know what changed, but I like it!





Maou
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"Re(3):Cecil and Golbez confirmed and looking" , posted Sun 14 Sep 06:25:post reply

quote:
The character art for Dissidia gives me a big ol' boner. I think this is the first time I've felt this way about Nomura since... Parasite Eve and the Bouncer, I guess. I don't really know what changed, but I like it!

Strange, isn't it! I think I know why: the baseline Amano designs for most of the characters are so damn good, which helps a lot. I still think that Nomura, when properly supervised, can produce some excellent inking and disctinctive design, so even if FFX (and obviously Kingdom Hearts) started to stray into zipper hell, VIII's designs were far more tight, and the previous template of Amano's sketches for I-VI really keep Nomura's design problems in check while playing up his inking and line, which I think are mostly really excellent.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Sun 14 Sep 06:27]

Grave
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"Re(4):Cecil and Golbez confirmed and looking" , posted Wed 17 Sep 11:17post reply

That sounds like a pretty reasonable explanation! I mean, even in zipper-chain hell the guy can do great work, but there's something about this Dissidia stuff that just looks amazing to me. Hell, I feel pretty good about Square in general these days. FF4 DS probably earned at least 5 years of my contended silence. Let the Enix side make a next-gen Actraiser and I'll bump it up to 15!





Maou
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"Re(5):Cecil and Golbez confirmed and looking" , posted Wed 17 Sep 11:23post reply

quote:
That sounds like a pretty reasonable explanation! I mean, even in zipper-chain hell the guy can do great work, but there's something about this Dissidia stuff that just looks amazing to me. Hell, I feel pretty good about Square in general these days. FF4 DS probably earned at least 5 years of my contended silence. Let the Enix side make a next-gen Actraiser and I'll bump it up to 15!

Ah, Quintet. This won't be the thread for it, but I've always wondered about their games. I think I've heard Actraiser mentioned more in the past year than I have in all of my life, for some reason. I remember people seemed to like Tenchi Souzou/Terranigma a lot, too. Then again, they also made Granstream Saga, which may have been the worst PS RPG besides Beyond the Beyond, so I don't know.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

Iggy
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"Re(6):Cecil and Golbez confirmed and looking" , posted Wed 17 Sep 18:35post reply

quote:
Ah, Quintet. This won't be the thread for it, but I've always wondered about their games. I think I've heard Actraiser mentioned more in the past year than I have in all of my life, for some reason.

Maybe because of the VC release? I'm sure these people haven't played the game recently though; with all its (then) pretty visual and (still) gorgeous music, it has aged a lot.
I wonder if Soulblazer holds up better...

Also, I am totally on-topic.





Shindekudasai
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"Re(7):Cecil and Golbez confirmed and looking" , posted Thu 18 Sep 04:27post reply

Thanks for the link, Iggy! I'd heard about this but nobody could link me. Looks like I was right about Luneth :) So I guess it's now safe to say that we'll have at least 2 color for the main model and an alt, and possibly 2 colors for the alt. So we may get all 4 classic Onion Knights in this game :p





Shindekudasai
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"Batz and Exdeath revealed" , posted Thu 9 Oct 02:15post reply

http://www.gamekyo.com/images0_4_29222.html

Batz is another impeccable Amano translation. Exdeath turned out a little more blue than I expected, but I guess it had to be done to keep him distinguished from all the other dark, evil armor-wearing villains in the game. Discuss!





Sensenic
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"Re(1):Batz and Exdeath revealed" , posted Thu 9 Oct 06:36post reply

quote:
http://www.gamekyo.com/images0_4_29222.html

Batz is another impeccable Amano translation. Exdeath turned out a little more blue than I expected, but I guess it had to be done to keep him distinguished from all the other dark, evil armor-wearing villains in the game. Discuss!



Bartz/Butz at first disappointed me, again because I was used to his sprite.
But after rechecking Amano's artwork, yeah, it's truly faithfull. Except for the white hair. :p

Also, main page updated with system, and some gameplay videos. Pretty basic stuff for now, though.
One kind of attacks doesn't take HP?? o_O





おやおやぁ~

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-Obelix-

Shindekudasai
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"Re(2):Batz and Exdeath revealed" , posted Thu 9 Oct 06:56post reply

Haven't checked the main page but here's what I've gotten from other sources so far. You have 2 gauges, one for HP and another for Brave. Similarly, you have two different attack buttons, one to take off HP and another to deplete Brave. Brave is like 'tug of war', similar to Dragonball Legends (if anyone remembers that) - by depleting the enemies' meter you build your own. Brave is used for various special attacks and HP, well, it keeps you alive :) A third button is used in combination with the other 2 to perform actions related to the area you're in, such as running up walls or throwing objects.





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"Re(1):Batz and Exdeath revealed" , posted Thu 9 Oct 10:29:post reply

quote:
Exdeath turned out a little more blue than I expected



Isn't this the Amano sketch? Also, in the game a lot of his great moments where on his white guise (like, mauling the old man).







悪魔の化身か地獄の使者か
リングで突然相手が消える!!

[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 9 Oct 10:31]

Shindekudasai
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"Re(2):Batz and Exdeath revealed" , posted Thu 9 Oct 12:23post reply

Yeah, just that with the small liberties Nomura has taken I figured he'd be in black, or at least a darker blue. It's not a problem per se, just not what I expected. No matter what they do at this point it'll still kick Castlevania: Judgements ass 6 ways from Sunday (see that thread for some more butchery revealed today).





Shindekudasai
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"Main cast complete: Cloud & Terra pics" , posted Fri 10 Oct 01:27post reply

Nomura, I forgive you for everything. Even Kingdom Hearts.





Toxico
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"Re(1):Main cast complete: Cloud & Terra pics" , posted Fri 10 Oct 02:58post reply

quote:
Nomura, I forgive you for everything.



What!? Tina BLONDE!? this better has alternative colors. It's funny how for Butz the sticked to the 2d sprite and not the FVM, while they did the opossite for her.







悪魔の化身か地獄の使者か
リングで突然相手が消える!!

Shindekudasai
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"Re(2):Main cast complete: Cloud & Terra pics" , posted Fri 10 Oct 03:53post reply

There'll be multiple colors, we've seen Frioniel in blue and yellow, both in his standard model.





Gojira
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"Re(2):Main cast complete: Cloud & Terra pics" , posted Fri 10 Oct 04:55post reply

quote:

What!? Tina BLONDE!? this better has alternative colors. It's funny how for Butz the sticked to the 2d sprite and not the FVM, while they did the opossite for her.



Wasn't Tina always blonde in her artwork though?





shipoopi

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"Re(3):Main cast complete: Cloud & Terra pics" , posted Fri 10 Oct 05:14:post reply

quote:
Wasn't Tina always blonde in her artwork though?



Digging around my memories, I remember than in a lot of scketches for the psx she was blonde, but I don't recall anything on the snes.

The fact that in '94, I realized that one of existence joys was spending the night awake, drinking whisky playing SNES, and not getting the proper 8 sleeping hours for highschool; seems to have some effect on my memories of my game play runs and art inquires.

And, the fact that there it was no internet in my country up to '96 also contribued to my inability to check the official art.

Finds

Finds

Finds

Finds







悪魔の化身か地獄の使者か
リングで突然相手が消える!!

[this message was edited by Toxico on Fri 10 Oct 05:16]

Maou
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"Re(2):Main cast complete: Cloud & Terra pics" , posted Fri 10 Oct 07:46:post reply

quote:
Nomura, I forgive you for everything.


What!? Tina BLONDE!? this better has alternative colors. It's funny how for Butz the sticked to the 2d sprite and not the FVM, while they did the opossite for her.

Tina is...not bad! I'd say Butz stuck with the original Amano sketch rather than the sprite (not that it was much of a sprite, which is to say it was a crappy, lazy, FF IV-level sprite). Er, except for the white hair. Poor Butz (!?) Klauser, least exciting Final Fantasy protagonist of all time*, destined to fail with a (for Amano) dull design and a preposterous name.



*Edit: I forgot Vaan. But he doesn't count, for so many reasons. Even Balflear agrees he's no hero.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 10 Oct 07:49]

Grave
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"Re(3):Main cast complete: Cloud & Terra pics" , posted Fri 10 Oct 08:05post reply

Yep! The whole cast looks amazing. Best Nomura art ever.





Maou
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"Re(4):Main cast complete: Cloud & Tina pics" , posted Fri 10 Oct 08:28:post reply

quote:
Yep! The whole cast looks amazing. Best Nomura art ever.

Crisis Core was pretty good from what I saw, too. I used to think that the way his inking got so heavy in starting in Kingdom Hearts (ick) was questionable, but it's kind of distinctive and has grown on me, jagged chins and lips and all.

Funny thing is, a few of the characters Nomura designed actually look weaker in this rendition...Sephiroth is excellent, but this Cloud is weak when compared to other iterations, and Squall's hair doesn't appear to have recovered from the cartoony chopiness of Kingdom Hearts to the masterful lines of FF VIII.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 10 Oct 11:40]

crazymike
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"Re(5):Main cast complete: Cloud & Tina pics" , posted Fri 10 Oct 09:06post reply

Man this project only makes me want to be a fan whore and demand more 3d remakes of old FF titles





Shindekudasai
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"EX modes for Exdeath and Ultimecia" , posted Wed 15 Oct 20:30post reply

... aka Neo-Exdeath and Griever.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...4047743777.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...4047702928.jpg





Sensenic
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"Re(1):EX modes for Exdeath and Ultimecia" , posted Wed 15 Oct 20:49:post reply

quote:
... aka Neo-Exdeath and Griever.



Those links be wrong, my friend.

Here:
One, two, three

Also:
- Summonings will be just an image of the creature on screen. Seeing how Ifrit has Amano's design, whereas the others are pretty different... I'm guessing they're taking the original or random different artwork for each?
- Butz fights with techniques from other fighters. That is, mime Job. Clever!
- Stage for FFV is a castle (very characteristic FFV castle design)


List of summons:
-Exdeath?? (that's what the katakana reads, anyway. Seen "Exodus" written somewhere, don't remember any summon by that name myself...)
-Gilgamesh
-Syldra
-Chocobo & Moguri
-Diablo
-Tomberi
-Knights of the Round
-Bahamut
-Brothers
-Madine/Maduin
-etc

EDIT: Formatting!





おやおやぁ~

"Farpaitement!"
-Obelix-

[this message was edited by Sensenic on Wed 15 Oct 20:52]

Shindekudasai
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"Re(2):EX modes for Exdeath and Ultimecia" , posted Thu 16 Oct 07:10post reply

Thanks, I was pretty tired when I posted those. :)

Mimic job for Batz rocks since they're already using job changes for LW and Onion/Luneth.

Carbuncle looks a bit like the Tactics Advance version, which had a similar Summon function (image pops with 1-or-2-frame animation, then effect takes place).

Exodus is another translation for Exdeath used for his summon in FF Tactics Advance/A2 and FF XII (and before the argument starts, he's a giant crazy tree who keeps Chaos and Zeromus in his company - it's Exdeath).

It's nice that they're using a mix of classic and modern summons. Hopefully Knights of the Round won't be abusable or take 10 minutes to show. ;)





Maou
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"Re(2):EX modes for Exdeath and Ultimecia" , posted Thu 16 Oct 12:49:post reply

quote:
Exdeath

There's no debate on it being Exdeath, luckily, since clumsy mistranslations don't count. But meanwhile, whatever EX mode is (I'm not actually paying attention to game mechanics so much as artworks), I'd love to see an alternate Exdeath be Neo-Exdeath. If I can't play as a killer death-tree that takes up the whole screen, Dissidia has nothing for me.

Also, having SeeD outfit Squall for an alt. costume is cool.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Thu 16 Oct 12:50]

Shindekudasai
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"Terra can Morph! And Kefka's EX Mode" , posted Thu 6 Nov 05:08post reply

Yeah! Eat it, Sephiroth, what with your one wing and your opera chant and legions of fangirls! THIS is how real villains play.

Err, sorry.

!





Maou
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"Re(1):Terra can Morph! And Kefka's EX Mode" , posted Thu 6 Nov 09:27post reply

quote:
Yeah! Eat it, Sephiroth, what with your one wing and your opera chant and legions of fangirls! THIS is how real villains play.

Err, sorry.

!

THAT'S THE SPIRIT. I have no need for the shoddy sound programming of VII's One Winged Angel when I have a 17-minute prog-rock organ masterpiece for the original Square evil angel, way before Nomura's anime-inspired feather aesthetic took hold. All Cefca all the time.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

Sensenic
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"Re(2):Terra can Morph! And Kefka's EX Mode" , posted Thu 6 Nov 21:16post reply

quote:
Yeah! Eat it, Sephiroth, what with your one wing and your opera chant and legions of fangirls! THIS is how real villains play.

Err, sorry.

!



Terra's really really cute/anime-ish, though. Too much, perhaps.
Look at her eyes in that picture where she looks sad...

That being said, the EX modes look delightful.
Seems Kefka's wings are not for show and will allow him to fly freely.

More interesting info is new summons, such as Leviathan and, for the first time, Bomb and... Barbariccia!
Nice fanservice touch there.

Also main page updated, with explanations for guarding, dodging and EX Mode.
Seems like Squall's EX Mode is with the Lionheart instead of the Revolver... and Zidane's super is sth about Terra and Gaia combining? Where's Luminaire?

But best of all is just a few minutes into the video, after Squall gets the EX Node whatsoever... Lokk at him, he grinds on the stages' rails! A la Tony Hawk, or Sonic! (or Tidus & co in a FFX cutscene IIRC).
I certainly didn't expect that posibility.





おやおやぁ~

"Farpaitement!"
-Obelix-

Ktallguy
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"Re(3):Terra can Morph! And Kefka's EX Mode" , posted Fri 7 Nov 02:52post reply

The demo I played at TGS allowed everyone(?) to grind on the rails, actually.

The game is beautiful and has more depth than you might think. There are some cool little ways to outsmart opponents which I'm sure will be fun in multiplayer. I'm definitely looking forward to it.





Play to win.

Sensenic
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"Full Trailer! v2.0" , posted Fri 14 Nov 22:06:post reply

quote:
The demo I played at TGS allowed everyone(?) to grind on the rails, actually.



Yeah, I guessed everybody can do it.
It's the movement itself, that I hadn't noticed before, what surprised me.

But I have sth more important to say so
Thread, In the name of the TGS trailer being uploaded, I bump thee.

A couple of things to note, other than all the characters appearing, etc.
- Chupon/Typhoon as a summon
- Who else could have they chosen for Chaos but... Norio Wakamoto. Guess when you're searching for a seiyuu for a big bad guy, he's the first in the contact list. XD

Also Amano's illustration for the good guys, to be in the cover of the Dissidia+PSP limited edition. (Guess it'll be reversible with the bad guys on the other side)

EDIT: Subtitled too!





おやおやぁ~

"Farpaitement!"
-Obelix-

[this message was edited by Sensenic on Fri 14 Nov 23:14]

Cain Highwind
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"First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 02:20post reply

Will be a Tarutaru from XI named Shantotto voiced by Megumi Hayashibara

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/1220016_1124.html





Maou
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"Re(1):First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 06:33post reply

quote:
Will be a Tarutaru from XI named Shantotto voiced by Megumi Hayashibara

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/1220016_1124.html

Thousands of gamers in turn will wonder what the hell "Final Fantasy XI" was. I kind of like the idea that in this sense, secret characters will not only be secret in that they are not available at the start, but in that their very existence as Final Fantasy characters will be secret to a great many people. No one (in Japan) finished XII either, so Judgemaster Gabranth would be a great secret character in the same way, plus he was actually really cool.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

Time Mage
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"Re(2):First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 07:31post reply

quote:
No one (in Japan) finished XII either, so Judgemaster Gabranth would be a great secret character in the same way, plus he was actually really cool.



Huh? Why not? It was too difficult? Too long? Or perhaps people didn't like the story?

In any case, the lack of popularity of FFXII really depresses me.





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ONSLAUGHT
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"Re(3):First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 07:43post reply

quote:

Huh? Why not? It was too difficult? Too long? Or perhaps people didn't like the story?


Perhaps being the worst Final Fantasy to date didn't help...
Seriously, I thought I was the only one that didn't like XII. I love FFT and VS, but this piece of turd was a letdown.





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"Re(4):First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 07:49post reply

quote:

Perhaps being the worst Final Fantasy to date didn't help...
Seriously, I thought I was the only one that didn't like XII. I love FFT and VS, but this piece of turd was a letdown.



Well, I, on the other hand, consider it the best FF out there, gameplay-wise, and overall on par with FFVI and FFIX at the top.

Not counting Tactics, that is.





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"Re(5):First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 07:53post reply

quote:


Well, I, on the other hand, consider it the best FF out there, gameplay-wise, and overall on par with FFVI and FFIX at the top.

Not counting Tactics, that is.


To each his own, I guess.





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"Re(6):First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 11:14post reply

quote:


Well, I, on the other hand, consider it the best FF out there, gameplay-wise, and overall on par with FFVI and FFIX at the top.

Not counting Tactics, that is.




You made a mistake, you said that it was on par with FFIX at the top, but FFIX sucked

quote:

To each his own, I guess.



NO! YOU MUST LEARN TO LIKE FFXII OR ELSE!





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"Re(5):First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 11:33post reply

Agreed. I thought that I was the only person that liked IX.
quote:
...and overall on par with FFVI and FFIX at the top.






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"Re(7):First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 11:37post reply

quote:


Well, I, on the other hand, consider it the best FF out there, gameplay-wise, and overall on par with FFVI and FFIX at the top.

Not counting Tactics, that is.



You made a mistake, you said that it was on par with FFIX at the top, but FFIX sucked


To each his own, I guess.


NO! YOU MUST LEARN TO LIKE FFXII OR ELSE!



Gods be DAMNED, there are some negative folks on this board.

Damn, Onslaught. First Twilight Princess, now FFXII? What games do you like?

I personally find it shocking that there are people who would consider XII the worst of the FFs when there are pieces of shit like X, VIII and let's face it I and II out there.

I mean, I know not everyone is going to have the same opinions, but I'm getting the impression that all a game needs in order to be considered crap by SOME of the members here is that the game be popular and/or overall well received.





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"Re(3):First secret character...." , posted Sun 23 Nov 12:37post reply

quote:

Huh? Why not? It was too difficult? Too long? Or perhaps people didn't like the story?



It's hard to phrase into words, there are good references to the older games on the marks and many interesting little details, and you can investigate a lot of things (tough you rarely find something that is worth the trouble)... But the story seems to drag, the last time I touched the game was months ago. I'm on something like +110 hrs file and I still don't feel that the game is getting near any kind of climax.



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -

The last thing I did was making learning that Cid has an special evil nethecite power and having him running away


End of Spoiler



quote:

Damn, Onslaught. First Twilight Princess, now FFXII? What games do you like?



I'm betting he'll answer something like "latest NHL game"... Or a "marvel movie" game.







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"Mmmmhh..." , posted Sun 23 Nov 16:08post reply

quote:

Damn, Onslaught. First Twilight Princess, now FFXII? What games do you like?


Well, I love NHL 2K8 and that Ironman game is rad!

...

Nah, just kidding. I don't hate games just because they're popular. TP I didn't like for the reasons I gave in that other thread, and FFXII, well, let's say it bored me to death.
I have this friend, who is a huge FF freak, he has every FF to date (except for FFXI, but that's another story), and has played every game like a hundred times. Well, he brought me FFXII (after he was a few hours into it), and was very excited because he knows I love FF. I started playing it, and was bored within minutes. And when I had my first encounter with an enemy, he explained the battle system... my response? "Are you shitting me? are you telling me that this game plays for itself??? an RPG? where we barely have any interaction outside pressing A and the ocassional B??? They removed that?? Thanks buddy, but fuck you and fuck this game" Of course, he said it wasn't so simple, that there was a lot of strategy to it, and you could always heal in battle if things don't go according to plan, or some crap like that. We (he) played for like an hour, but I was super bored, moving from point A to point B (I must admit, the first city was huge, but was a pain in the ass to navigate).
Oh, and then the characters; I know FF is not recognized for having the manliest protagonists, but this is ridiculous, I won't even explain this.
I started playing RPG's just because he introduced me to the gem that is FF VI, then VII, VIII, IX and X and I liked them all, some more than others, but FFXII feels like a different game, it's not FF to me.





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"Re(1):Mmmmhh..." , posted Sun 23 Nov 17:43:post reply

I too despise FF XII.

POST ENDS





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Sun 23 Nov 17:44]

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"rant rant rant" , posted Sun 23 Nov 18:08post reply

Overall negativeness and bashing of popular franchises? That's the Cafe's speciality, my friend!

But our rants do have a basis (more often than not).

quote:
I started playing it, and was bored within minutes. And when I had my first encounter with an enemy, he explained the battle system... my response? "Are you shitting me?



Same here, but my dissapointment began on an even earlier stage.

I was curious about the game, mainly because of my love for the original FF Tactics. The intro was really promising story-wise, and scenario quickly grew into me. But soon all those cool characters were gone for good, many of them dead, and I was given control of a girly weirdo as my main character. "Well, let's stick around yet a little bit, it should get interesting again with the first combats", I thought.

How naive of me.

It was the most boring, cheap, stupid, painful and irritating combat system I've ever tried (and this comes from a guy who enjoys playing Gensou Suikoden). I endured about 6 hours and then just surrendered to evidence.

I REALLY wanted to love FFXII, but... I just couldn't bring me to it. Probably I am missing a wonderful story and some great characters here, and maybe some entertaining gameplay as well but, hell, I don't wanna play my Final Fantasies like friggin' MMORPGs.

And let me add that VIII and X, tough of course not the best ones out there, are not bad games nor bad FFs at all, in my opinion. IX was dull and boring as hell, on the contrary.





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"Re(2):Mmmmhh..." , posted Sun 23 Nov 19:45post reply

quote:
I too despise FF XII.

POST ENDS



Same.





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"Re(4):The FF12 bashing thread-jack" , posted Sun 23 Nov 20:13post reply

OK, let's jump on the FF fiesta : I laughed at FF4, liked 5, loved 6, loathed with vibrant passion 7, and despised every game branded with the FF franchise on it afterward.
Like many people, I think FF12 should not have been branded "FF". It should have been its own franchise, and people would have seen that despise its problems, the game was and is fresh, healthy, and how every thing in it just breathed new air in a genre whose necrosis is rampant.

On a different tone, Raidou 2 is brilliant. it fixes every problem spotted on the first game, and develops further.
I feel like it's the only game that learned anything from FFXII, on its small level of "low-profile spin-off from a niche franchise", and it's a real shame.





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"Re(3):Mmmmhh..." , posted Sun 23 Nov 20:30post reply

Well, even if I'm pretty sure I won't convince anyone (and in fact I don't have that intention), I'd like to explain why I think FFXII is so good.

First, the battle system: Sure, in other FF's you mash X more times... So what? The meaningful interaction is next to none, as most battles are a matter of attack, attack, attack, attack forever.

In FFXII I found that, instead of telling the characters what to do in every situation, I was the "general" and dictated the strategy to my soldiers, thanks to the great gambit system. I made my group so I had a physical attacker whose primary role was stealing, receiving enemy attacks, and doing some moderate damage in the mean time. He had good armor, a good shield, and was generally protected with statuses and if possible with the "lure" status, so enemies would focus on him. I had a damage dealer with a greatsword or a spear or a katana, focused on doing the most damage possible. And finally a magician, in charge of the most important cures and buffs (everyone could cure and buff to some degree), plus using elemental nukes whenever was necessary. Most of those tasks were controlled by gambits, and it wasn't boring at all, because even if the gambits had a general structure, I had to change them from zone to zone, to adapt to the different enemies in each place, and change their actions in many situations.

And of course, there's the boss battles, the most intense and fun in ANY FF to date. Their patterns change through the course of the battle, forcing you to adapt and interact (In a meaningful way!) more than in normal battles.

On top of that, you know... You can just switch gambits off, set the game on "wait" and... voilą! Classic FF gameplay! (almost)


Regarding the story, there are two things to consider: Characters and the overall story. The overall story, instead of being centered in the group, like many other games, is instead more broad. Sure, the group does influence the outcome of the events, and sure, they sometimes dictate the path of the story, but they are not the absolute center of it. The lack of any (stupidly done) romantic main plot throws many people off, as well as the too political tone of the story. Those are good things to me, but I understand that some people don't like them.

Regarding the characters, they don't have the typical RPG treatment of development through shocking revealings of their past, or reunions around a campfire where everyone starts revealing their sentiments. No, it's, in most cases, more subtle. You can tell Vaan evolves in the game a lot, even if there aren't any shocking revelations about him. The transition from being so naive about the world and wanting revenge on the empire to his final, more mature self is gradually done and it's mostly appreciated through how he speaks and what he says in the cutscenes, and not because in a cutscene he suddenly says "I've changed". And that's for Vaan (who, by the way, is NOT the main character, even if you see the game through his eyes), but most other characters get the same treatment. The fact that the facial and body expressions are so natural and well done in the game helps a lot in conveying their personality through this way. Plus, the dialogues are the most natural and well written in the whole series.

And although I've covered the two most controversial aspects, I want to mention the HUGE optional content of the game. And the good thing is not only that it is huge and fun, but also that it is very well distributed throughout the duration of the game. In most games, however good the optional content is, 90% of it is situated at the very end of the game, so you are forced to play the main game straight and then you have suddenly all the optional content at the end. In FFXII, it is carefully distributed (mostly in the form of hunts) throughout the whole adventure, letting you stray from the main path at any moment. I find that really refreshing, and also, if you do hunts as soon as they are available, many are a huge challenge, something that I personally love.

There are bad things about it, of course, but In my opinion, the good things far outweigh the bad ones, making this an outstanding game.





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"Re(5):The FF12 bashing thread-jack" , posted Sun 23 Nov 20:43post reply

quote:

On a different tone, Raidou 2 is brilliant. it fixes every problem spotted on the first game, and develops further.



I was thinking about going on and on about the FF series, but this has caught my attention much more since I was on the line about getting Raidou 2.

My main question is...are the battles less boring now? That was the only thing I really disliked about the first game. The fights weren't strategic enough to make up for how slow and clunky they were. They failed as RPG fights and they failed miserably as action game fights.





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"Re(6):The FF12 bashing thread-jack" , posted Sun 23 Nov 23:47:post reply

quote:
I mean, I know not everyone is going to have the same opinions, but I'm getting the impression that all a game needs in order to be considered crap by SOME of the members here is that the game be popular and/or overall well received.
Nah, we just demand the best. Besides, my joke was that XII wasn't well-received in Japan at all, so any 'secret characters' in Dissidia from XII would be genuine surprises/mysteries! Like Captain Falco or something.





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"Re(4):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 03:45post reply

quote:
Well, even if I'm pretty sure I won't convince anyone (and in fact I don't have that intention), I'd like to explain why I think FFXII is so good.

First, the battle system: Sure, in other FF's you mash X more times... So what? The meaningful interaction is next to none, as most battles are a matter of attack, attack, attack, attack forever.

In FFXII I found that, instead of telling the characters what to do in every situation, I was the "general" and dictated the strategy to my soldiers, thanks to the great gambit system. I made my group so I had a physical attacker whose primary role was stealing, receiving enemy attacks, and doing some moderate damage in the mean time. He had good armor, a good shield, and was generally protected with statuses and if possible with the "lure" status, so enemies would focus on him. I had a damage dealer with a greatsword or a spear or a katana, focused on doing the most damage possible. And finally a magician, in charge of the most important cures and buffs (everyone could cure and buff to some degree), plus using elemental nukes whenever was necessary. Most of those tasks were controlled by gambits, and it wasn't boring at all, because even if the gambits had a general structure, I had to change them from zone to zone, to adapt to the different enemies in each place, and change their actions in many situations.

And of course, there's the boss battles, the most intense and fun in ANY FF to date. Their patterns change through the course of the battle, forcing you to adapt and interact (In a meaningful way!) more than in normal battles.

On top of that, you know... You can just switch gambits off, set the game on "wait" and... voilą! Classic FF gameplay! (almost)


Regarding the story, there are two things to consider: Characters and the overall story. The overall story, instead of being centered in the group, like many other games, is instead more broad. Sure, the group does influence the outcome of the events, and sure, they sometimes dictate the path of the story, but they are not the absolute center of it. The lack of any (stupidly done) romantic main plot throws many people off, as well as the too political tone of the story. Those are good things to me, but I understand that some people don't like them.

Regarding the characters, they don't have the typical RPG treatment of development through shocking revealings of their past, or reunions around a campfire where everyone starts revealing their sentiments. No, it's, in most cases, more subtle. You can tell Vaan evolves in the game a lot, even if there aren't any shocking revelations about him. The transition from being so naive about the world and wanting revenge on the empire to his final, more mature self is gradually done and it's mostly appreciated through how he speaks and what he says in the cutscenes, and not because in a cutscene he suddenly says "I've changed". And that's for Vaan (who, by the way, is NOT the main character, even if you see the game through his eyes), but most other characters get the same treatment. The fact that the facial and body expressions are so natural and well done in the game helps a lot in conveying their personality through this way. Plus, the dialogues are the most natural and well written in the whole series.

And although I've covered the two most controversial aspects, I want to mention the HUGE optional content of the game. And the good thing is not only that it is huge and fun, but also that it is very well distributed throughout the duration of the game. In most games, however good the optional content is, 90% of it is situated at the very end of the game, so you are forced to play the main game straight and then you have suddenly all the optional content at the end. In FFXII, it is carefully distributed (mostly in the form of hunts) throughout the whole adventure, letting you stray from the main path at any moment. I find that really refreshing, and also, if you do hunts as soon as they are available, many are a huge challenge, something that I personally love.

There are bad things about it, of course, but In my opinion, the good things far outweigh the bad ones, making this an outstanding game.



Good points here. I too have no intention of changing anybody's mind, but I really liked that this game felt so different from other FFs in both gameplay and story because 1) the romantic plots of ALL of the previous 3d FFs was really getting on my nerves and 2)the more political story was awesome to me since I love that kind of stuff in stories. Better than all that cliched lovey-dovey stuff.

The battle system felt unique in a good way to me. It gave the game sort of a "strategy-RPG-ish" feel...just a little.

Also, yes Vaan was another stereotypically effeminate male, but he was still not as annoying as Tidus and not as annoyingly angsty and emo as Squall.

The extra/side missions feel less tacked on than past games and the Tactics fanboy in me really enjoyed having more Bangaas, Moogles, Nu Mous and Vieras.





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"Re(5):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 07:21:post reply

The story completely falls apart (not like I particularly cared) and it's essentially an MMO without the ability to grief people and with slightly less grinding. Considering I hate MMOs, FF XII was sort of doomed for me.

Edit: Of course, I haven't really enjoyed an FF since 6, so whatever.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Mon 24 Nov 07:22]

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"Re(6):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 08:21post reply

quote:

Edit: Of course, I haven't really enjoyed an FF since 6, so whatever.


As somebody else said (Iggy?), FF XII should have been called something else, perhaps nobody would hate it then.
To me, the real FF XII is Lost Odyssey.





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"Re(7):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 08:32post reply

quote:

To me, the real FF XII is Lost Odyssey.



I said the same thing. Though maybe that's not taking it back far enough. Maybe it's more like the real Final Fantasy 7.





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"Re(8):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 08:39post reply

quote:

To me, the real FF XII is Lost Odyssey.


I said the same thing. Though maybe that's not taking it back far enough. Maybe it's more like the real Final Fantasy 7.



Well, maybe, but that doesn't make FFXII a bad game. Not even a bad FF, if you don't consider it one.

I mean, I try to value games for what they are, not for judging if they follow the invisible set of rules a standard FF has to follow.

You can like FFXII, you can dislike it, or you can be in an intermediate state, but I just don't understand not liking it because it doesn't feel FF-ish.

Of course, it's obvious it has more in common with other Matsuno games than with the classic FF games, but that was to be expected, in my opinion. I really don't know why people was surprised by how different it was: I could see that from a mile away.





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"Re(9):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 08:55post reply

quote:

I mean, I try to value games for what they are, not for judging if they follow the invisible set of rules a standard FF has to follow.

You can like FFXII, you can dislike it, or you can be in an intermediate state, but I just don't understand not liking it because it doesn't feel FF-ish.

Of course, it's obvious it has more in common with other Matsuno games than with the classic FF games, but that was to be expected, in my opinion. I really don't know why people was surprised by how different it was: I could see that from a mile away.


It's not because it's different, it's because it is boring. If it wasn't called FF, it would have been just another MMORPG to me, and I tend to ignore those. I loved Tactics, I loved Vagrant Story, and they were very different than your average FF, but they were good, they were fun, they hooked me from the beginning, FF XII failed to do that, it bored me, and I just don't have to play a boring game just because it has the brand of a beloved franchise.





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"Re(8):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 09:32post reply

quote:
To me, the real FF XII is Lost Odyssey.


Isn't it more the real Shadow Hearts 4?

And yeah, offline MMORPGs are a genre of their own. It's something Minstrel Song had as well as FFXII, and I love them because I hate interaction with other human being in a game.





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"Re(8):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 09:41post reply

quote:

To me, the real FF XII is Lost Odyssey.



Once again, same.





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"Re(9):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 11:52post reply

I actually liked the battle system in FFXII, but I hated the game for the large numbers of immensely huge empty open fields. Also that Vaan probably only had a total of 10 sentences worth of dialogue in the 2nd half of the game maybe, because all that was happening had nothing to do with him at all.





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"Re(2):First secret character...." , posted Mon 24 Nov 12:06:post reply

quote:
Will be a Tarutaru from XI named Shantotto voiced by Megumi Hayashibara

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/1220016_1124.html
Thousands of gamers in turn will wonder what the hell "Final Fantasy XI" was. I kind of like the idea that in this sense, secret characters will not only be secret in that they are not available at the start, but in that their very existence as Final Fantasy characters will be secret to a great many people.



Since I've been playing FFXI for about a year now, figure this may help non-FFXI players learn a thing or two about Shantotto:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Lady_Shantotto_Exposed!

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Shantotto

I'm curious to see how her laugh will sound like (no voice samples in the game, it's all text and animations), and it's almost not surprising we don't get to see a hero/villain pair for FFXI considering she's the revealed character.

Edit: just remembered something a friend told me in-game and went to read about it: Shantotto is the central character to one of 3 new announced expansions for FFXI:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/2008_-_(11/22/2008)_Square_Enix_Developing_New_Content_for_Final_Fantasy_XI





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[this message was edited by Ikari Loona on Mon 24 Nov 12:14]

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"Re(10):Mmmmhh..." , posted Mon 24 Nov 12:16post reply

Maybe we should start a new FF/Dissidia topic? Somehow I have the fear that if I start it, no one will post in it (cooties perhaps?).

quote:
I actually liked the battle system in FFXII, but I hated the game for the large numbers of immensely huge empty open fields.



Yeah, that bugged me and the fact that in the latter portions of the game it became necessary to constantly buff yourself and debuff enemies. This wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't combined with the fact that enemies would hit you with 5 status ailments at once. It stopped being challenging and just got annoying.

The boss fights on the other hand were excellent. Really exciting.

Not having the main characters as the only focus in the story was fine, but the result was that you spent most of the game engaged in what felt like pointless fetch quests while more interesting things were happening elsewhere.

I liked the game, but it was frustrating because I feel like it fell way short of its potential.





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