Another SF II Release(HD this time) - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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GekigangerV
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"Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Sat 14 Apr 14:33:post reply

Link Here

I have to say I am kind of interested. However, I don't have a 360 or PS3 yet and I don't plan on getting either one for a year or so.

*Edit*

Here is a sample from a Capcom slideshow

Link Here





[this message was edited by GekigangerV on Sat 14 Apr 14:37]

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ONSLAUGHT
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"Holy shit!" , posted Sat 14 Apr 16:30post reply

It's like a (partial) dream come true!





Zepy
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"Re(1):Holy shit!" , posted Sat 14 Apr 16:53post reply

Man I got a bad feeling that the game will look and play like a badly animated flash game, looking at the shot from the slideshow.





Time Mage
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"Re(2):Holy shit!" , posted Sat 14 Apr 19:47post reply

quote:
Man I got a bad feeling that the game will look and play like a badly animated flash game, looking at the shot from the slideshow.



No, no! Don't even think that!

Be positive, we need everyone's hype to gather in one big hype-ball and send it to Capcom.

I'm officially hyped.





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Pollyanna
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"Re(2):Holy shit!" , posted Sat 14 Apr 20:12post reply

quote:
Man I got a bad feeling that the game will look and play like a badly animated flash game, looking at the shot from the slideshow.



Well, it should be identical to the original in terms of animation, even if it ends up looking like a flash game. It's very possible that the gameplay will be off in critical difficult to pinpoint ways, though.

Personally, I don't feel like I need a high res SFII. I play SFII from time to time for kicks, and I don't think it being in HD would really make me want to play it more. On the upside, it beats just releasing the same game again by a long shot.





Recap
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"Think twice." , posted Sat 14 Apr 21:48post reply

quote:

Well, it should be identical to the original in terms of animation, even if it ends up looking like a flash game.


KOF '94 Re-Bout didn't look "like a flash game", though...

I believe the biggest concern should be that Street Fighter is not about Ame-Komi art style, despite all that Udon stuff. This is not a Capcom product, but a Capcom USA product. So.



1080p 2D should be really impressive to watch, anyhow. Let's see what they do with the backgrounds.





Maou
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"Re(1):Think twice." , posted Sun 15 Apr 02:44post reply

quote:
I believe the biggest concern should be that Street Fighter is not about Ame-Komi art style, despite all that Udon stuff. This is not a Capcom product, but a Capcom USA product. So.

Hmm? I'm confused. Definitely fearing anything that the hateful Capcom USA touches makes sense, but isn't the idea that Udon often goes for a pseudo-Japanese comics art style, whereas the original Street Fighter II had weird American Comics-style art that reminds me of action figures or GI Joe? Seems more a case of アメコミ into 和風, but I could be wrong.





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"it's just another day in paradise" , posted Sun 15 Apr 03:32post reply

quote:

I believe the biggest concern should be that Street Fighter is not about Ame-Komi art style, despite all that Udon stuff. This is not a Capcom product, but a Capcom USA product. So.



I'll take high-res Ame-Komi art over pixelated recycled stuff (CFJ Demitri, CvS Morrigan, etc.) any day of the week.





Zepy
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"Re(1):Think twice." , posted Sun 15 Apr 04:03post reply

quote:
KOF '94 Re-Bout didn't look "like a flash game", though...
My main concern is that it appears to be using high res CG instead of high res pixel art(unlike games like KOF 94 or odin's sphere).

Using CG for animation in games was used mainly in flash games, so it does leave a dreadful feeling.





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"Re(1):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Sun 15 Apr 04:04post reply

Lets positive thinking!

Maybe the hitboxeses will be slightly different now that the sprites have changed?
Oh, and I wonder what the SFII vomit will look like in HD...





Undead Fred
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"Re(2):Think twice." , posted Sun 15 Apr 04:27post reply

quote:
KOF '94 Re-Bout didn't look "like a flash game", though...My main concern is that it appears to be using high res CG instead of high res pixel art(unlike games like KOF 94 or odin's sphere).

Using CG for animation in games was used mainly in flash games, so it does leave a dreadful feeling.

I agree... seeing the detail they're going to go for in the final version has me wondering what it'll look like. I just looked at the shot from the thumbnail, but hearing that Capcom USA's putting it out definitely makes me think they're gonna do the lazy method and use Flash. And like Polly said, no telling how it's gonna play.





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"Re(2):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Sun 15 Apr 06:26post reply

quote:
Lets positive thinking!

Maybe the hitboxeses will be slightly different now that the sprites have changed?
Oh, and I wonder what the SFII vomit will look like in HD...


I expect there will be unintentional changes to the game but, if nothing else, that will give those old fogey gamers something new to complain about.

I don't know if the world needs a re-jiggered SF2 but if that Ryu is indicative of the finished product I expect the body blows, kicks to the head, and other bone crushing blasts of violence in the game will be lovely to look at.





Pollyanna
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"Re(2):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Sun 15 Apr 06:34post reply

quote:

Oh, and I wonder what the SFII vomit will look like in HD...



YES! I forgot about this! Now, there's no way I can be anything BUT positive about this game.





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"Re(1):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Sun 15 Apr 08:03post reply

Here's David Sirlin's blog/webpage, http://www.sirlin.net/, who is the man behind this new SSFIIT as well as the producer of Capcom Classic Collection 1 and 2. He is a long time SF competitive player, linked to the EVO staff, and has a great web, complete with very interesting articles and opinions. In his last blog entry, he talks a bit about this new SSFIIT project.





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shin ramberk
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"WAAAAAAAAAAAH HOOOOOOOOOOOO!" , posted Sun 15 Apr 08:36post reply

Yes, its the American team but........

They said they are using the same exact ST engine but just upping the sprites. Did you check out the sample image? That's some nice looking stuff.

I think I would buy a 360 just for this damn game alone. Really.

I'm hyped. I'm very hyped. This gots potential. For sure!





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gekigangerv
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"Re(3):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Sun 15 Apr 08:44post reply

quote:

Oh, and I wonder what the SFII vomit will look like in HD...


YES! I forgot about this! Now, there's no way I can be anything BUT positive about this game.



I am more curious about the sound. It will be weird to hear those 15 year old voice clips on fresh sprites. Especially having a new cool-looking Guile have the voice from the original SF2.

I had been thinking that Darkstalkers could also benefit from a High Res sprite face lift.





EddyT
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"Re(4):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Sun 15 Apr 12:55:post reply

If Mr. Sirlin is working on this project, I would definitely trust his abilities to help make this game a solid-playing game. He definitely knows his SF. All I worry about is the consistency of the art, because I've seen how some issues of the SF comics are drawn by different artists during the middle of an issue. The example of the Ryu sprite looks pretty impressive, though... and I hope it just looks and animates well on HD.

I'm sure this will be 1000000000000000000000000 times better than the Double Dragon XBLA game, which is the stereotypical Flash game remake gone horribly wrong. Trust me, I know it's not out yet publically, but it's horrible. The art is poor in HD and it still slows down tremendously in certain areas. Get Double Dragon Advance for GBA if you want to get your DD jollies.





[this message was edited by EddyT on Sun 15 Apr 12:57]

nobinobita
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"Re(1):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Sun 15 Apr 17:46post reply

quote:

Here is a sample from a Capcom slideshow
Link Here



I'm wishing for the best, but that sprite comparisson is making me real nervious. It's like I made a wish on a monkey's paw and it's come true but gone wrong. Street Fighter is in Hi-res, but it's being drawn by UDON?

I apologize ahead of time to anyone that truly enjoys Udon's art. I really respect them for how far they've gone in chasing their dreams. It's especially impressive considering how young they are, however I don't think their work has ever been up to par with actual Capcom work.

And i'm not just being a stuffy purist. I honestly believe that low res sprite in that picture is more skillyfully made than the hi-res one.

In spite of how dated it looks, it still conveys a three dimensional form really well. It has really good coloring that shows careful deliberation over the placement of each pixel. There is nice variation in value, especially along the outlines. Ryu's gi has well conveyed planar forms that imply soft cloth falling over a body underneath.

The new sprite looks good at first glance, but falls apart under scrutiny. It's not a very careful translation of the old sprite, inspite of having been traced from it.

Just look at the gi in the new picture. It is waaay starchy and tubelike. It does not feel like a soft flowing gi at all. It was drawn by a person who did not think carefully about how cloth falls and folds. Whoever inked it made the mistake of using a solid black line on the interior fold of the left leg giving it way more weight and depth than it should have. The colorist also forgot to extend the shadow on that pant leg down to the tip of the opening making it look arbitrary rather than planar.

The upper body looks much better but it's still not perfect. Ryu's front bicep extends around his arm too much and makes it look too bulbous (although to be fair all the old SF2 sprites tended to look kinda bulbous). Also, his pectoral muscle is way too small. The best part of that image is the face, which was basically copied from Edayan's art on the GBA port of Super Turbo.

And I don't mind that part. That part was copied well enough (though I'm not a fan of the random dark line in his cheek/jaw). What I do mind is that the rest of it was not copied or updated well.

I know I sound like a complete douchebag right now, but this is a real Street Fighter game I am talking about. If it were an Udon comic or a random fan art I'd say the picture is just fine. But as a sprite for a real game, that puts it up against all the wonderful art produced by Capcom's incredibly artists from the previous Street Fighter games. And it does not compare favorably in my overlong oppinion.

Before you disagree with me take care to remember just how incredible official Street Fighter art looks:

http://www.newwavemugen.com/%7Ezweifuss/makoto/makoto.htm

http://fightingstreet.com/folders/downloadsfolder/RyuWP.jpg

Someone needs to find Bengus, Akiman, Kinu, Ikeno, and Edayan and chain them to a drafting table until all the graphics for this new game are done.





Recap
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"Re(2):Think twice." , posted Sun 15 Apr 20:40:post reply

quote:
Hmm? I'm confused. Definitely fearing anything that the hateful Capcom USA touches makes sense, but isn't the idea that Udon often goes for a pseudo-Japanese comics art style, whereas the original Street Fighter II had weird American Comics-style art that reminds me of action figures or GI Joe? Seems more a case of アメコミ into 和風, but I could be wrong.



American pseudo-Japanese is still ame-komi style, if you ask me, and usually pretty ugly. I pretty much agree with Nobita - the Udon artist just aren't in the same league of Bengus, Edayan, etc. And, what's worse, they're changing totally the style.

Anyway, we should be differentiating illustrations/chara design and sprite art. It's true that the original SF (and SFII, even) artwork is a bit "americanized" (much like most arcade art of those days) and that the series changed that with the time, but we're talking here about "sprite art", and that always was very Japanese. The Japanese knew how to draw sprites like no other, indeed, and Capcom was one of the best examples there:

http://ranobe.com/up/src/up185303.png

That just doesn't need an "upgrade" to look superb, and I honestly don't believe that a higher rez could benefit that sprite style. Then again, redrawing is the only way to make it look decent on current consoles and TVs, I suppose.



quote:
My main concern is that it appears to be using high res CG instead of high res pixel art(unlike games like KOF 94 or odin's sphere).

Using CG for animation in games was used mainly in flash games, so it does leave a dreadful feeling.


It's indeed "high res pixel art". It's using the same technique as Re-Bout - they take the old sprites, upscale them digitally and redraw them from there. It looks more like a "real" illustration because the resolution is very high. That's exactly the point here - the resolution. Low res means "scanlines" ("pixels"), making of those graphics a very different thing to high-res ones, both in presentation and, presumably, conception.

They're not using "CG" for animation, by the way. They'll leave the original frames.



quote:
Here's David Sirlin's blog/webpage, http://www.sirlin.net/, who is the man behind this new SSFIIT as well as the producer of Capcom Classic Collection 1 and 2. He is a long time SF competitive player, linked to the EVO staff, and has a great web, complete with very interesting articles and opinions. In his last blog entry, he talks a bit about this new SSFIIT project.


Nice link, but if he's the responsible of the Capcom Classic Collections, he's just not competent enough. The news gets worse indeed.


Edit: Link!





[this message was edited by Recap on Sun 15 Apr 20:50]

Zepy
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"Re(3):Think twice." , posted Sun 15 Apr 23:51post reply

quote:
It's indeed "high res pixel art". It's using the same technique as Re-Bout - they take the old sprites, upscale them digitally and redraw them from there. It looks more like a "real" illustration because the resolution is very high. That's exactly the point here - the resolution. Low res means "scanlines" ("pixels"), making of those graphics a very different thing to high-res ones, both in presentation and, presumably, conception.

Nono it has nothing to do with resolution, pixel art means you hit the pixels in by hand or ドット打ち, instead of making an illustration and putting it into pixels, which looks like what they are doing.

I don't remember any success stories regarding converting illustrations into in-game animation for a fighting game, I think there probably were but I can't remember any.(But it would be awesome if somebody brings up examples)

Oh there was Glove on fight and RBO, but they were more like flash games than anything.





Maou
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"Re(4):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 02:33post reply

Hey Nobi, those comments aren't douchebaggy at all...I'm glad someone with a more sophisticated artist's eye pointed that stuff out. It definitely is poor clothes drawing. I guess the real problem is that Udon is really just "top-notch fanart" in my eye as opposed to "official-quality art." They're about as good as they can be without being as skilled as one of the artists in Capcom Japan's employ. I like their art better than the goofy old Americanized faces in the in-between fights and character select screens, but like Recap's also pointed out, they just aren't good enough if they're actually making sprites. And drawing the endings for Capcom Fighting Jam or whatever that nonsense was doesn't make that any different, it seems.





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"Re(4):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 02:57post reply

quote:

I don't remember any success stories regarding converting illustrations into in-game animation for a fighting game, I think there probably were but I can't remember any.(But it would be awesome if somebody brings up examples)

Oh there was Glove on fight and RBO, but they were more like flash games than anything.



Darkstalkers and SF3 were done by cleanly outlining each sprite in hand-drawn form and then coloring it with a pixel method. If you search around you can find some of the original hand-drawn frames that were released in art books and whatnot. After being scanned, the hand-drawn frames were small enough to facilitate such pixel detail, but in high resolution that detail is not going to have the same effect. In fact it'd be a form of torture to force anyone to color them pixel-by-pixel when they're that large, and the end result will animate very choppy and jerky like GGX or HnK anyway. This is probably why nobody does it despite the fact that high resolutions have been around for a while.

They're obviously using a different technique for that slide, but keep in mind this is a very early quick-and-dirty example, and it hasn't been touched up or cleaned in the slightest like is so common in this process. It may not have been done to show the quality of the sprites but rather just the size. So I don't think criticizing how it looks there is going to get you anywhere right now.





Recap
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"Re(4):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 03:52post reply

quote:
Nono it has nothing to do with resolution, pixel art means you hit the pixels in by hand or ドット打ち, instead of making an illustration and putting it into pixels, which looks like what they are doing.



Per-pixel-based only techniques were abandoned back in the 80's, when the video hardware got power enough to handle sprites with a reasonable number of pixels and colors. That is, most of the sprites in post-80's video-games were drawn/designed (and usually colored) on paper, and later they're digitalized. Obviously after that they had to do the pixel treatment, but rarely they designed the sprites (and all their frames) directly with the computer (unless it's prerrendered stuff, like Cave's).


quote:
They're obviously using a different technique for that slide, but keep in mind this is a very early quick-and-dirty example, and it hasn't been touched up or cleaned in the slightest like is so common in this process. It may not have been done to show the quality of the sprites but rather just the size. So I don't think criticizing how it looks there is going to get you anywhere right now.


The style they're choosing is perfectly visible, though, and that's what I was criticizing. As I said, SF is not about ame-komi.





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"Re(5):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 04:54post reply

Considering the state of 2D fighters today... I've learned to be appreciative of pretty much anything that comes out. Of course high res doesn't mean much outside of Guilty Gear... everything else has been a wreck like re-bout or Spectral vs Generation. Still I can't help but be optimistic... it is Street Fighter II afterall! The engine is already proven to be solid... it's just a matter of getting the graphics right.

If they actually manage to get it right maybe even a proper Street Fighter sequel could be in the future... since it's obvious Capcom Japan has stopped caring about 2d fighters a LONG time ago.

... but of course KOFXII could just blow everything else away...





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"Re(6):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 05:19post reply

Unlike some of the bitchy gramps here (although I can understand their fear), I like what I see a lot. So, the art style isn't exactly the same as the original game - yeah, that's one of the things I like about it.

Considering how much work will be needed to remake the game, it's a wonder it's just going to be a downloadable one and not a boxed release (+ arcade version)...
Maybe they'll change their mind about an arcade version if the game gets popular...





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"Re(7):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 06:20post reply

Well with the work needed to remake the game that is the primary reason to be concerned... especially when that slideshow said there was a fall release date... unless they mean fall '08, because based on that developer blog they've only just begun working on this.





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"Re(7):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 06:51post reply

quote:
So, the art style isn't exactly the same as the original game - yeah, that's one of the things I like about it.



My problem isn't that it doesn't look like the original. My problem is that the game doesn't look like Capcom, it looks like Udon.

What I mean is that it looks like it was done by people trying to ape Capcom's style, but they don't have the basic drawing skills to really pull it off. Udon is full of young talented people, but they have a looong way to go if they want to ever get as good as any of the legendary Capcom artists.

The main difference between Capcom and Udon is just tens of thousands of hours of experience in drawing. The Udon guys just need to draw more, really hone their skills. They need to first learn how to draw a body and face and keep it on model. They need to learn how to do poses that have weight and read as realistic. They then need to learn about how to render things with non arbitrary light sources, color saturatioons and line weights.

After all that, then they can worry about style (which should have developed organically in the process of learning anyway).

I'm not saying they SHOULDN'T be doing what they're doing. It's amazing how far they've come and it would be foolish to turn down any of this work. At the same time I wish they would try to improve and one day match the standards that Capcom used to have.

Just look at Arnold Tseng's new art:

http://arnistotle.deviantart.com/

He's improved TREMENDOUSLY since he started at Udon... Of course, alot of this improvement seemed to happen AFTER he left Udon.

Again, I'm sorry for being so negative, but this is something i feel VERY strongly about. I love Capcom art. Capcom is one of the main reasons I have chosen to do art for a carreer so it is deeply disturbing for me to see the artwork representing Street Fighter take a step backward instead of forward.

But then again, at least Udon is keeping it alive and going.

And also, to their credit, I know people that work for them and I understand that they work under tremendous pressure, tight deadlines and very little pay. So again, it's very commendable that they can produce anything worth looking at at all.





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"Re(5):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 06:54post reply

quote:
Per-pixel-based only techniques were abandoned back in the 80's, when the video hardware got power enough to handle sprites with a reasonable number of pixels and colors. That is, most of the sprites in post-80's video-games were drawn/designed (and usually colored) on paper, and later they're digitalized. Obviously after that they had to do the pixel treatment, but rarely they designed the sprites (and all their frames) directly with the computer (unless it's prerrendered stuff, like Cave's).
I think I phrased myself wrongly. I wasn't trying to say that all the dot art is drawn from the ground up straight on the PC(though it really depends on the dot artist). What I was trying to say was really more like what Gojira described.

Though there still are dot artists that still prefer to draw pixel by pixel from the ground up.





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"Re(8):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 08:13post reply

quote:
The Udon guys just need to draw more, really hone their skills. They need to first learn how to draw a body and face and keep it on model. They need to learn how to do poses that have weight and read as realistic. They then need to learn about how to render things with non arbitrary light sources, color saturatioons and line weights.




Well, early SF Capcom work wasn't all that great either

Good example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SF2_JPN_flyer.jpg

Very 2-dimensional shading, really bizarre square jaws, etc.





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"Re(8):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 08:25post reply

quote:
But then again, at least Udon is keeping it alive and going.

And also, to their credit, I know people that work for them and I understand that they work under tremendous pressure, tight deadlines and very little pay. So again, it's very commendable that they can produce anything worth looking at at all.



I'd rather not see it alive with the current Ame-Komi style artwork Udon produces........





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"Re(9):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 20:32post reply

You know what? I'm sure that if they had showed the exact same image example, but said the game was being developed in Japan and the sprites made by Japanese artists, everyone would be praising it, throwing love and joy everywhere, instead of making nonsensical critics about the shadows of Ryu's pants.

Totally sure.





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"!!" , posted Mon 16 Apr 22:00post reply

quote:
You know what? I'm sure that if they had showed the exact same image example, but said the game was being developed in Japan and the sprites made by Japanese artists, everyone would be praising it, throwing love and joy everywhere, instead of making nonsensical critics about the shadows of Ryu's pants.

Totally sure.


Damn you Time Mage! I was going to say the same thing!

In a more assholish manner of course...

Damn you again!





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"Re(10):Think twice." , posted Mon 16 Apr 22:38post reply

quote:
You know what? I'm sure that if they had showed the exact same image example, but said the game was being developed in Japan and the sprites made by Japanese artists,



You fail to get the point. That, as a hypothesis, is totally inconceivable.





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"Re(1):!!" , posted Mon 16 Apr 23:07post reply

quote:

Damn you Time Mage! I was going to say the same thing!

In a more assholish manner of course...

Damn you again!



Hahahaha! And I KNEW you were going to say it sooner or later, of course more assholishly (is THAT a word?), you are still the king of assholes, despite what others may think.


Recap: Why that's so inconceivable? At least Capcom is doing a proper HD treatment, unlike the poor KOF94 Rebout attempt, made by a Japanese company.





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"Caca de toro." , posted Mon 16 Apr 23:12:post reply

quote:

That, as a hypothesis, is totally inconceivable.



And why is it totally inconceivable? I mean, if tomorrow they say Udon is not working on this project and that Edayan has been behind it the whole time, what would you think about it?

I think you're bitching and moaning just for the sake of it.

And what the hell is Ame-Komi (stupid non asians and their japanese words)?? And no, Google is not my friend, so shut up about it.





[this message was edited by ONSLAUGHT on Tue 17 Apr 00:02]

Recap
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"Re(2):!!" , posted Mon 16 Apr 23:43:post reply

quote:


Recap: Why that's so inconceivable?


I've been saying it from the beginning - 'cause that redrawn Ryu sprite has an unquestionable ame-komi style which just would never be used by Japanese artists (we could add here that Japanese would never use other companies' works as comprison material for an official presentation, but whatever).



quote:
At least Capcom is doing a proper HD treatment, unlike the poor KOF94 Rebout attempt, made by a Japanese company.


The former is true and I'm really looking forward to it, at least just for curiousity (though it's not "Capcom" but "Capcom USA"). As for the Re-Bout thing, that was actually a true hi-res remake (the sprites, at least), and never a "HD attempt". It's a PS2 game after all. Though we'll come to agree that it was poor, especially if we consider the backgrounds and whatnot. Japanese, but amateurish.





[this message was edited by Recap on Tue 17 Apr 00:16]

Ishmael
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"Re(3):^_^" , posted Tue 17 Apr 00:13post reply

quote:
I've been saying it from the beginning - 'cause that redrawn Ryu sprite has an unquestionable ame-komi style which just would never be used by Japanese artists.


But Akiman has noted that his art style has been influenced by such artists as Frank Frazetta and N.C. Wyeth. If you don't like the particular art style that was shown in the sample image that's fine but I don't think that art can be seperated by national borders.

While I have no idea how the final product is going to turn out I am curious to see what this version will look like. Will the characters have a consistent look? When I played a Ken/Fei Long match recently I was struck by how different the design on the two characters was. They might as well have been from different games. Will this polish help make the sprites that were added during the various upgrades mesh in a more smooth manner than it did in the past? Will Ryu's leaping still look squatty and bizarre? What will the backgrounds look like? Will E.Honda still have fifty to sixty teeth in his head on the verses sceen? Will the characters get individual shadows and getting set on fire animation? These and other silly questions are the sort of thing that have me excited about this game.





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"Re(4):^_^" , posted Tue 17 Apr 00:20post reply

quote:

But Akiman has noted that his art style has been influenced by such artists as Frank Frazetta and N.C. Wyeth. If you don't like the particular art style that was shown in the sample image that's fine but I don't think that art can be seperated by national borders.



It's quite evident, though, especially in comic, video-games and animation. Akiman's influences are just that (if anything).





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"bread bread BREAD BREAD BREAD BREAD" , posted Tue 17 Apr 00:33post reply

quote:
ahaha fancy words and top hats



I am not a big fan of Udon, but I like the fact that the American branch is doing something than just another port or compilation of Street Fighter titles. The sample art slide in the link looks very promising; hopefully they will show more details soon.

And hey, if this does well enough maybe the NIHONGO (THATS JAPANESE FOR JAPAN ^_______________^ BY THE WAY THEY ARE THE BEST LOL) branch might just take their thumbs out of their butts and will use their old fighting game licenses again. UNCONCIEVABLE! ! ! ! !





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"Re(1):bread bread BREAD BREAD BREAD BREAD" , posted Tue 17 Apr 02:23post reply

Hahaha as usual Ishmael and...Juan! are the voices of reason, actually. Edmond Honda's teeth are really the only reason I buy all these Capcom games anyway.

And randomly, I guess I do like these middling Udon things about as much as...that other game.





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"Re(10):Think twice." , posted Tue 17 Apr 02:32post reply

quote:
You know what? I'm sure that if they had showed the exact same image example, but said the game was being developed in Japan and the sprites made by Japanese artists, everyone would be praising it, throwing love and joy everywhere, instead of making nonsensical critics about the shadows of Ryu's pants.

Totally sure.



I agree with you. If people didn't know it was Udon and Capcom of America, they'd be saying how great it was, with the exact same art.

Indeed, on some boards the response *is* positive, excepting the complaints that it is still just another repackage of SSF2T rather than a new game. And a few people who question what it will look like in action, combining hi-res sprites with the animation of SF2. And being online download only. And a few people who say the prior SSF2T port was done poorly. And all sorts of other things unrelated to the new images themselves.





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"Re(2):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 03:37post reply

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The new sprite looks good at first glance, but falls apart under scrutiny.



I think this is perhaps the greatest truth here.

It may be true that if people didn't find out that it was American, they wouldn't have bothered scrutinizing it in the first place, but regardless of if people have a Japan-bias or not, the sprite just doesn't look that great. If they didn't complain now, then months down the road when they got the game, they'd say "something isn't right about this".





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"Re(2):bread bread BREAD BREAD BREAD BREAD" , posted Tue 17 Apr 03:51post reply

quote:
Hahaha as usual Ishmael and...Juan! are the voices of reason, actually.

We're doomed.





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"Re(3):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 03:55post reply

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The new sprite looks good at first glance, but falls apart under scrutiny.


I think this is perhaps the greatest truth here.



Well, maybe I have lower quality standards than other people, because, the more I look at the sprite, the less I understand why it is so criticized.

Oh, and what Ishmael said about sprite consistency is true. I often chuckle when I see Chun Li's [2]8K (the anti-air triple kicks) sprites in comparison to her older sprites. If you look closely, it's nearly SF Alpha art, and looks really different from the rest. Making the art consistent will be a minor but interesting improvement.





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"Re(4):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 04:20post reply

Then again, people do criticize fighting game artwork when it's crappy, regardless, don't they? Fighting Jam is all I could think of above, but I don't think whatever the public is was very stoked about that stuff, Japanese or not. I know I wasn't.





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"Re(5):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 05:50post reply

quote:
I don't think whatever the public is was very stoked about that stuff, Japanese or not. I know I wasn't.


You foreign barbarian do not question superiority of japanese empire intelligence and you will burn in hell of badly made non-japanese games and kimchi party festival





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"Re(6):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 06:02post reply

What you say?? I got a good feeling.





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"Re(7):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 06:57post reply

Why bother with the whole thing, anyway? ST is fine as it is. It's all a bloody waste of time.





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"Re(1):Caca de toro." , posted Tue 17 Apr 12:25:post reply

quote:
And what the hell is Ame-Komi (stupid non asians and their japanese words)?? And no, Google is not my friend, so shut up about it.



Short for American comic. And hey, I could've typed in Japanese you know, since I am Japanese :P

And anyways, I would've complained even if this was done by Capcom Jp.
I just don't like the style of Udon. To me, it doesn't translate well and to be quite honest, I think some of their artists completely suck.....





[this message was edited by Saiki on Tue 17 Apr 14:04]

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"Re(8):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 15:45post reply

quote:
Why bother with the whole thing, anyway?



because their last one was one of the best selling XBLA titles ever - the fans voted with their dollars and Capcom read it as "people like street fighter II" instead of "people like 2D fighters", unfortunately. But it could be a step to something.

And of course, redoing an existing game is easier than making a new one.

I'm not into the Udon style either incidentally. But one thing I want to point out is that people are talking about this being a Capcom USA title - it's true that Capcom USA is producing it, but the game is being developed by Backbone Entertainment. That's who David Sirlin works for (he's a casual friend of mine anyway, so I hope he'll do a good job).

I was pretty disappointed with the treatment that Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo HD Remix got. The backgrounds and gems and explosions were all redone, but the character sprites just have a crappy filter on them as they're all melty and squiggly. They look like they were drawn by at-death's-door-era Charles Schultz.





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"Re(9):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 17:43post reply

At least Capcom USA has their head where the money and fan favor is at. Capcom Japan is stupid, SF franchise hasn't had a game in years yet its got a best selling comic, toy line, anime film, and other various merchandise. You don't see "dead" franchises pulling in cash like that.

While it may not be a "new" SF game, it is at least something fresh to please us SF fans salivating for something more than another compilation package.





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"Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 18:24post reply

quote:
At least Capcom USA has their head where the money and fan favor is at. Capcom Japan is stupid, SF franchise hasn't had a game in years yet its got a best selling comic, toy line, anime film, and other various merchandise. You don't see "dead" franchises pulling in cash like that.

While it may not be a "new" SF game, it is at least something fresh to please us SF fans salivating for something more than another compilation package.



I agree... SF is still much alive and kicking.

I felt that it was extremely harsh that they just gave up on the license and gave it to the US division of Capcom. When that happened, it made me lose all hope on a proper SF sequel. I will never understand why they insist that 2D gaming is dead... with the addition of hi-def TVs showing so much more detail, I feel that this could be the start of a new 2D revolution. Redone games are nice and all, but bringing a new fighter to the table, redrawn for higher resolutions... I still think that could make a pretty penny if marketed right and the game engine was solid. But who's going to make the first step? The ball is out there fumbling around, yet nobody is willing to strike out and take a crack at it.

I know that having the US division of Capcom handle new twists to SF games seems pretty odd and quite awkward, but really... it's all we've got nowadays. Better than what we have received before XBL, which is next to nothing.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Tue 17 Apr 19:29post reply

I believe the reason why Capcom Japan stopped making 2D fighters and gave the Street Fighter license to Capcom USA was that it takes the american fans five years to stop bitching and moaning about their latest game, and then suddenly say it's the best thing ever. So, here we are now, waiting for a shitty Udon product because that's what the american fans are crazy about. Thanks!





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"Re(9):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Tue 17 Apr 20:54post reply

quote:

it's true that Capcom USA is producing it, but the game is being developed by Backbone Entertainment. That's who David Sirlin works for (he's a casual friend of mine anyway, so I hope he'll do a good job).



Yeah, you know, Saturn Children of the Atom was developed by Rutubo Games, or the Rockman X epěsodes for the PS, by Value Wave. You won't find many mentioning it. They're just "Capcom products".

Anyway, how does Digital Eclipse fit in all this? Weren't they the ones behind Capcom Classic Collection? Did Sirlin just hire them or he indeed worked for them then? Whichever, he ruined the compilations. Some of the best games ever for some of the worst ports ever. Learn how to choose your casual friends better! ...





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"Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Wed 18 Apr 00:35post reply

quote:
At least Capcom USA has their head where the money and fan favor is at. Capcom Japan is stupid, SF franchise hasn't had a game in years yet its got a best selling comic, toy line, anime film, and other various merchandise. You don't see "dead" franchises pulling in cash like that.

While it may not be a "new" SF game, it is at least something fresh to please us SF fans salivating for something more than another compilation package.



Capcom Jp really cant make any more fighters since all of their crew left Capcom.





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"Re(9):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Wed 18 Apr 02:30post reply

quote:
Why bother with the whole thing, anyway?


because their last one was one of the best selling XBLA titles ever - the fans voted with their dollars and Capcom read it as "people like street fighter II" instead of "people like 2D fighters", unfortunately. But it could be a step to something.


I dunno, I think anyone who looks at sales of such things could tell it was certainly more SF2 than 2D fighters in general. I haven't heard too much about ridiculously high sales on, say, Mortal Kombat.

The game sold well because of all the people that played the SNES version and think they're the best at the game because they could beat all of their friends at it as well as the people who play the game far more frequently (tourney people).

Personally, I think we should just wait and see what happens with this thing, anyway, before we go bitching and moaning about "Oh! Ryu's arm is lacking a muscle definition line here! Oh, it's not at the right resolution! OMG UDON'S ART SUCKS!!!!" and the like.





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"Re(9):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Wed 18 Apr 03:00:post reply

quote:
But one thing I want to point out is that people are talking about this being a Capcom USA title - it's true that Capcom USA is producing it, but the game is being developed by Backbone Entertainment. That's who David Sirlin works for (he's a casual friend of mine anyway, so I hope he'll do a good job).

My point was it's a waste of time and effort, ST is perfect as it is and needs no changes, let alone a pointless cosmetic one like this. I'm sure it'll be an okay product, as the Classics collection version of ST is probably the best at-home version of the game barring usage of a supergun and a PCB (although vs. mode still has a few funny things...) and I believe Sirlin worked on that, but my original statement still stands: "why bother?" As the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Still, I guess if is it just a shallow money-grubbing attempt relying on stupid "MY HONDA IS THE BEST EVAR" and then proceeding to just mash punch type players, maybe it isn't such a bad idea for them in that sense.

Actually, I can think of TWO changes I'd like in ST... take out Gouki and Old Sagat, haw haw.

Edit: Hope I didn't come over as too grouchy, but I love my ST, ha ha.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Wed 18 Apr 03:06]

Count Hihihi
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"Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Wed 18 Apr 03:49post reply

quote:

Personally, I think we should just wait and see what happens with this thing, anyway, before we go bitching and moaning about "Oh! Ryu's arm is lacking a muscle definition line here! Oh, it's not at the right resolution! OMG UDON'S ART SUCKS!!!!" and the like.



Yes, it makes sense to wait and see that Udon's art sucks. It's like we have no way to know what Udon's art looks like!





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"Re(2):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 04:02post reply

quote:
Yes, it makes sense to wait and see that Udon's art sucks. It's like we have no way to know what Udon's art looks like!



And maybe your opinion isn't a fact!





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"Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Wed 18 Apr 05:29post reply

Yes, I know I'm talking in circles and should really stop posting in this thread. Please indulge me.

The reason I can't get too worked up over this alteration to ST is that there are so many variations on SF2 that I can't point to any one game and declare that it represents everything that is the SF2 experience. Between all the official versions, the Rainbow and other hacks, those crazy live action versions and more there are, what, a dozen SF2 games? Since all of those games were put on the market to make money I can't begrudge this latest SF2 it's place in the roster as well.

quote:
Actually, I can think of TWO changes I'd like in ST... take out Gouki and Old Sagat, haw haw.



Can we pitch the US difficulty settings as well?

Also, seeing Time Mage's avatar makes me wish that more could be done with Balrog/Bison's win quotes. If Capcom can release an entire game built around Mike Tyson quotes the least they could do is give their first Tyson game reference a few more loony lines. Then again, I suspect the programmers are going to be focused on more important aspects of the game.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 05:51post reply

Maybe we can redirect this into a more pointless postive direction with random declarations. I totally didn't even care about the Street Fighter series till SFZero 2, after which I loved it.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 06:13post reply

quote:
Then again, I suspect the programmers are going to be focused on more important aspects of the game.



Hey, that's important! Imagine Balrog taunting: "You're not Alexander!" (Yeah, I know, there's no taunt in SSFIIT)





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"Re(3):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 07:25post reply

quote:
Yes, it makes sense to wait and see that Udon's art sucks. It's like we have no way to know what Udon's art looks like!


And maybe your opinion isn't a fact!




While everything concerning art forms is, at the end, debatable, I believe you have some good reasons in this very thread to call Udon's stuff not especially brillant from a technical point of view, but anyways, the matter here is not if Udon's style is good or not more than that it is not Street Fighter style. Hence, fans (of Street Fighter) should be worried.





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"Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Wed 18 Apr 07:43post reply

quote:

Anyway, how does Digital Eclipse fit in all this? Weren't they the ones behind Capcom Classic Collection? Did Sirlin just hire them or he indeed worked for them then? Whichever, he ruined the compilations. Some of the best games ever for some of the worst ports ever. Learn how to choose your casual friends better! ...



Digital Eclipse was purchased by Backbone several years ago. Sirlin works for Backbone which owns DE - it's the same company at this point. No matter what you think of the ports - it has no bearing on whether he's a friend or not! Luckily I'm not friends with him based on his job! Heh.

Red Falcon - you misunderstand, I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying the "point" was because it's easy money, and easy to develop. the 'could be a step to something' bit was just hopeful.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 07:44post reply

quote:
the matter here is not if Udon's style is good or not more than that it is not Street Fighter style. Hence, fans (of Street Fighter) should be worried.



What is "Street Fighter's style" exactly?

The shaded pixels of SF2?

The flat, bulbous color of the Zero series?

The exquisitely detailed sprites of Street Fighter 3?

The pajama textures on a polygon skeleton man of SF Ex lol.





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"Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this time)" , posted Wed 18 Apr 07:46post reply

Look at the bright side - desite all that's been found odd with that ONE Ryu frame, maybe after some experience in redrawing characters in high resolution (perhaps starting with less popular ones for practice's sake), the final product will look better or at least it'll be harder to notice odd-looking frames in the middle of reasonable-looking ones...
I'd just be glad if they don't change Blanka into his SFA3 "monkey man" persona instead of his original beast self.

quote:
Actually, I can think of TWO changes I'd like in ST... take out Gouki and Old Sagat, haw haw.


Maybe they could just twek the angle on playable Gouki's air projectile or something - I'm not that versed in O. Sagat's strenghts to dare suggest tweaks to him though.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 07:54:post reply

quote:
the matter here is not if Udon's style is good or not more than that it is not Street Fighter style. Hence, fans (of Street Fighter) should be worried.





What is "Street Fighter's style" exactly?

The shaded pixels of SF2?

The flat, bulbous color of the Zero series?

The exquisitely detailed sprites of Street Fighter 3?

The pajama textures on a polygon skeleton man of SF Ex lol.

BTW can I also add that it is funny there was no bitching about the art style of Final Fantasy 1 Anniversary's redone sprites

http://www.the-magicbox.com/0702/ff03.jpg

I still think there is an Udon bias because that Ryu concept puts these Final Fantasy imitating RPG Maker sprites to shame.

Amano should have been hired for that job.





[this message was edited by crazymike on Wed 18 Apr 07:55]

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"Re(2):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 07:54post reply

quote:


Digital Eclipse was purchased by Backbone several years ago. Sirlin works for Backbone which owns DE - it's the same company at this point.


That shows you how illiterate am I when it concerns today's Western developers...



quote:
No matter what you think of the ports - it has no bearing on whether he's a friend or not! Luckily I'm not friends with him based on his job! Heh.


I was kidding. Really. I was. Indeed.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 08:14post reply

quote:
What is "Street Fighter's style" exactly?


A non American super hero comic style art would be one. Udon's art style falls into this category.
They try real hard to make it look like the style Capcom has created, but it falls short in many ways





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"Re(5):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 08:34post reply

quote:
the matter here is not if Udon's style is good or not more than that it is not Street Fighter style. Hence, fans (of Street Fighter) should be worried.


What is "Street Fighter's style" exactly?

The shaded pixels of SF2?

The flat, bulbous color of the Zero series?

The exquisitely detailed sprites of Street Fighter 3?

The pajama textures on a polygon skeleton man of SF Ex lol.



Exactly.

Then again, I seem to be one of the few here who is both a huge fan of SF as well as actually liking Udon's artwork. If anything it's a sight better than some of the other trash we've seen in previous official comics.

Considering the entire point of this is JUST for cosmetics, the subject is in the eye of the beholder and calling this trash or bitching about it to no end as though it is the only conclusion to come to is, frankly, rather elitist.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 08:54post reply

quote:

That shows you how illiterate am I when it concerns today's Western developers...



yeah, I have to know for work! and this will make you either love or hate the editorial I'm writing for ic...

quote:

I was kidding. Really. I was. Indeed.



oho, good then!





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"Re(7):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 09:55post reply

quote:
What is "Street Fighter's style" exactly?

A non American super hero comic style art would be one. Udon's art style falls into this category.
They try real hard to make it look like the style Capcom has created, but it falls short in many ways



Funny though, never saw Americans complaining about the anime style of the Marvel v.s series being different from the source material.

What is wrong with interpreting characters through a different cultural/visual style?





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"Re(8):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 10:15:post reply

quote:


Funny though, never saw Americans complaining about the anime style of the Marvel v.s series being different from the source material.


I can of think of three possible answers for that:

- That Capcom's Marvel series doesn't have an "anime style" at all.

- That the source material is not another video-game, and indeed the product was aimed at video-game fans and not comic-book fans.

- That Capcom's "interpretation" improved over the original in some way.





[this message was edited by Recap on Wed 18 Apr 10:16]

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"Re(9):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 11:04post reply

quote:

- That Capcom's "interpretation" improved over the original in some way.


Now this is what I call bullshit.
Where's the improvement? It was different, but in no way an improvement over the original.





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"Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this t" , posted Wed 18 Apr 12:49post reply

quote:

- That Capcom's "interpretation" improved over the original in some way.

Now this is what I call bullshit.
Where's the improvement? It was different, but in no way an improvement over the original.



I'm inclined to agree (with Onslaught). Also, with Marvel characters, "original" is relative, since the characters are always being drawn by different artists in different ways. Maybe I just don't understand.

Speaking of comics and in-game art, I think if you pit Udon artists against Japanese Street Fighter comic artists, they come out ahead. However, if you pit either against Capcom's best illustrators, they both fall short.

Personally, I don't see the old SF II sprites as exceptional by today's standards, but that doesn't change the relative mediocrity of the new look.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Wed 18 Apr 14:36:post reply

What I still don't get about all this hoopla is Street Fighter 2's early promotional artwork just isn't very good. In the SF art book even the some of the artists admits their early work wasn't very good so I don't know where all this praise is coming from.

Quote from SF Eternal Challenge:

Nishimura Kinu: "We were getting customer complaints about our illustrations of the Street Fighter II characters. People were saying "On all the character illustrations, why are their faces and costume details different? and "You should have a consistent style for all the pictures!"

Even the great Akiman (whom I love his Turn A Gundam work to death) shows his young amateurity back then with this piece!

Someone call the waaambulance





[this message was edited by crazymike on Wed 18 Apr 14:38]

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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Wed 18 Apr 14:43post reply

quote:

Personally, I don't see the old SF II sprites as exceptional by today's standards, but that doesn't change the relative mediocrity of the new look.



I love how your posts manage to highlight the mediocrity in basically everything, but still maintain that hint of optimism. Pollyanna indeed!





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"Re(9):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD this ti" , posted Wed 18 Apr 15:36post reply

quote:


I can of think of three possible answers for that:

- That Capcom's Marvel series doesn't have an "anime style" at all.

- That the source material is not another video-game, and indeed the product was aimed at video-game fans and not comic-book fans.

- That Capcom's "interpretation" improved over the original in some way.







ok

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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Wed 18 Apr 16:19post reply

quote:
What I still don't get about all this hoopla is Street Fighter 2's early promotional artwork just isn't very good. In the SF art book even the some of the artists admits their early work wasn't very good so I don't know where all this praise is coming from.

Quote from SF Eternal Challenge:

Nishimura Kinu: "We were getting customer complaints about our illustrations of the Street Fighter II characters. People were saying "On all the character illustrations, why are their faces and costume details different? and "You should have a consistent style for all the pictures!"

Even the great Akiman (whom I love his Turn A Gundam work to death) shows his young amateurity back then with this piece!

Someone call the waaambulance



Early SF art weren't all that great. But the standard has been raised.
Udon work is good, if compared with other doujin art.
But compared with official Capcom artists, they just fall short





crazymike
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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Wed 18 Apr 17:21:post reply

quote:


Early SF art weren't all that great. But the standard has been raised.
Udon work is good, if compared with other doujin art.
But compared with official Capcom artists, they just fall short



I think it is all subjective. As a graphic design major who thinks he isn't good enough to be an illustration major, I still get comments from the average joe-blow crowd who says "oh that is sooo good!" I don't get why they like my work but they do.

I really don't think I've figured out what makes a "good" illustrator I mean I see all the time stick figure-like illustrations that win awards. Are they technical genius? No, but they have their own visual style.

Now what I will say negative about Udon is that their style, while maybe proficiently skillful technical wise, does not exhibit emotion or a unique style.

However, in the context of this project, that is not necessary. Artists like Akiman's work would not project well into sprites because his work is naturally silky and soft, bordering between abstraction and realism. His soft contours would not translate well either for in-between motion frames, you would end up likely with a scrachy looking movement.

Most of his work is centered on a unique pose and a setting that cannot be translated well into a naturally boring profile pose of Ryu throwing a hadouken. However, Udon's sharp-edged comic-style work is well suited for in-game art.

If anything, the totality of this project should be commended because no game design company has experimented with producing ultra-high resolution artwork as sprites. Imagine if IGA took this route with the next Castlevania.





[this message was edited by crazymike on Wed 18 Apr 17:22]

Pollyanna
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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Wed 18 Apr 17:36post reply

quote:
What I still don't get about all this hoopla is Street Fighter 2's early promotional artwork just isn't very good. In the SF art book even the some of the artists admits their early work wasn't very good so I don't know where all this praise is coming from.



This is irrelevant from both ends of the argument. It isn't then, it's now, and mediocrity is no excuse for mediocrity. You can't say "SFII originally had bad art, so the remake should have bad art as well!" Of course, you couldn't expect Akiman to draw at the level he did back then any more than you can expect it from the Udon guys (I imagine they were like, 12 at the time?).

The point here (or at least, I hope the point is) just that it's a shame that Capcom's talented artists aren't working on the game.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Wed 18 Apr 21:25post reply

quote:
The point here (or at least, I hope the point is) just that it's a shame that Capcom's talented artists aren't working on the game.



But crazymike has a point: maybe their style is the most suited to make videogame sprites. I doubt that choosing Udon was because of that, though.





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Saiki
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"Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Thu 19 Apr 00:33post reply

quote:
I think it is all subjective. As a graphic design major who thinks he isn't good enough to be an illustration major, I still get comments from the average joe-blow crowd who says "oh that is sooo good!" I don't get why they like my work but they do.

I really don't think I've figured out what makes a "good" illustrator I mean I see all the time stick figure-like illustrations that win awards. Are they technical genius? No, but they have their own visual style.

Now what I will say negative about Udon is that their style, while maybe proficiently skillful technical wise, does not exhibit emotion or a unique style.

However, in the context of this project, that is not necessary. Artists like Akiman's work would not project well into sprites because his work is naturally silky and soft, bordering between abstraction and realism. His soft contours would not translate well either for in-between motion frames, you would end up likely with a scrachy looking movement.

Most of his work is centered on a unique pose and a setting that cannot be translated well into a naturally boring profile pose of Ryu throwing a hadouken. However, Udon's sharp-edged comic-style work is well suited for in-game art.

If anything, the totality of this project should be commended because no game design company has experimented with producing ultra-high resolution artwork as sprites. Imagine if IGA took this route with the next Castlevania.



Of course art is subjective.
But one of the problems with Udon is they're comic book illustrators trying real hard to draw with a more SF'ish/Japanese manga style art.
And alot of there artwork lacks any movement or emotion in there comics.
Also, their artwork lacks any sort of definition or life. If you took the colors away, you could really see how mediocre there artwork is.





Pollyanna
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"Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Thu 19 Apr 04:59:post reply

quote:

But crazymike has a point: maybe their style is the most suited to make videogame sprites. I doubt that choosing Udon was because of that, though.



Well, it depends on what kind of sprites you want to make. If you look at the SF3 sprites, they match up fairly well with the illustrations by Kinu, Ikeno and Akiman. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the SF3-style sprites, which reflect the artwork of some of Capcom's best artists so well are most appropriate for the series.

However, creating sprites like that would be a huge undertaking, and while I don't think the less detailed Udon style reflects SFII as I know it , it's not a bad alternative for the project. (I think a similar style would work much better for a SFZ remake).

For the record, I don't think the sprites look BAD. I think it's a decent attempt, and it beats nothing... but as Zepy feared, I think it may turn out looking like a flash game, thanks to the extremely "flat" style of the art.





[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Thu 19 Apr 05:16]

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"Re(6):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Fri 20 Apr 00:11post reply

Polly: Do you think that 2D isn't ready for HD yet? I mean, we're all used to pixel-based art... for us to witness something as clean as this, how does any company attempt to make a 2D game without it looking "flat" or "fake"?

Then again, it could be different if a game was built from the ground-up. Since this upcoming game will be a revision of sorts of an existing game, it could look even more awkward. Especially since we've been familiar with the SSF2T game engine and look for almost 15 years.





Pollyanna
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"Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):Another SF II Release(HD" , posted Fri 20 Apr 06:29:post reply

quote:
Polly: Do you think that 2D isn't ready for HD yet? I mean, we're all used to pixel-based art... for us to witness something as clean as this, how does any company attempt to make a 2D game without it looking "flat" or "fake"?



Well, I think Guilty Gear and Hokuto no Ken are close enough to give us some idea. The Guilty Gear sprites look surprisingly good for how simplistic they are. I'm sure someone can completely discredit this opinion with some large collection of numbers and abbreviations that I've never heard before, though.

But the point is, I can't say "2D isn't ready", because it's a matter of how much money, effort and talent goes into it, not if it's technically viable. It's the same as HD with 3D games. If you have crappy renders, it doesn't matter how shiny and crisp they are...it'll only make their flaws more evident. It's not until recently that the concept of HD gaming has been very appealing to me...and it wasn't until Blue Dragon that I got really excited.

Edit: This is more related to my previous post, but looking at the 3rd Strike sprites again, I was wrong. They aren't really that detailed, they're just really expertly drawn. I guess they do a good job of "implying detail" or something.





[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Sat 21 Apr 07:50]