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Replies: |
| Grave 1265th Post
 
Red Carpet Executive Member
  
    
    
    
|  "Re(2):........." , posted Thu 31 Dec 10:58:
quote:
Now we just need Itagaki to resurface and start doing his thing and we'll be set.
He better do something exciting! I still love that man, even if Ninja Gaiden 2 is not that good!
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I love when I try to get friends into games like this. "No, no...it's good! You just have to spend 5-10 hours with it."
It's good to have at least one from who gets that kind of thing! I once gave my best friend a copy of DQ7 and he loved it just as much as I did. That's when you know you have a true friend.
A lot of my former roommates will not listen to my game recommendations because they saw what I did to myself through the duration of Odin Sphere and countless other masochistic experiences. Other people, they bought Crimson Tears because of me and got really mad. However I made at least five other people fall in love with God Hand, I like to think that counteracts some of the more painful recommendations I've made!
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Of course, most of my friends are really sore losers and most games I introduce them to end in one of two ways:
One of said roommates would always play a fighting game with me when I got it (or decided to introduce him to it) and the after losing to me a bunch of times cold, he'd always practice a ton on his own, learn the systems, we'd watch combo videos together... I've been playing 3S casually on and off for years and he got reasonably close to my level in very little time! It was the most fun ever!
Needless to say I have not had any roommates like that since. Current one hates losing and seems to hate learning fighting games just as much. We only played MvC2 all of once and whined about my Captain Commando being cheap. Not promising! Good thing playing fighting games online isn't (completely) awful these days.
edit: also, Polly, I admit that I only now read the last part of your post in detail. Your friends seem to have very upsetting attitudes about how competition works!
[this message was edited by Grave on Thu 31 Dec 11:00] |
| Grave 1265th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(4):........." , posted Fri 1 Jan 03:50
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Have you ever fight Polly in a game? She has superhuman abilities :P
I recall her Rachel being good, but not scary like mbisonhatclub's Litchi. I also have a very bad memory so I don't know!
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Side note: I have Overture, but never played it. It's still sealed and never opened. I'm bit late playing some games (Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and Bionic Commando are still sealed too). I'm very curious about that game, though.
There's a lot to like, but there's a lot of unavoidable badness that you need to be willing to suck it up and deal with. I had to choose between understanding the dialogue that happens while you're trying to do shit in some battles being annoyed by the English grunts and noises in combat or understanding little to nothing, so I picked the latter. The's plot is terrible. It may in fact be carcinogenic. A few of the cutscenes are worth watching but babbling endlessly about backyard and nonsense terms they act like everyone playing should already know and uthrgtdfglhasjdfsld. The actual game itself is pretty fun! Hectic, and the maps are annoying until you know where you can and can't run to (hell, running is annoying) but still enjoyable. Also, be warned that there is one particularly painful level where you have to uncover invisible objects by using an item and your only clue to where each one is is a very unhelpful picture. Also you can't kill enemies in it or you have to start over. I gave up and watched a YouTube video and it was still unbearable.
I'm not really helping the game's case any here, huh?
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| Pollyanna 2823th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
 
| "Re(1):gorrila fate is turning" , posted Tue 5 Jan 07:43
Since we're speaking about online fighting games, it might be worth noting that it seems like the entire online Tekken 6 community consists of gangstas with sassy girlfriends/wives griping at them while a baby cries in the background.
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you need to start playing with us again instead because we are awesome and you know you love hearing bang's theme over and over
I gave BlazBlue to a friend, since I was wrapped up in other games. I'm sure I won't be much competition by the time I get it back.
I think I might have been the best by a VERY narrow margin when we started playing, but you guys got better and better very quickly and I couldn't keep up. Compare my early matches against Grave's Hakumen to my later ones.
But, I mean...they were all good fights. I don't care if I win or lose as long as it's a good fight. I only get irritated when it's no contest...hahaha.
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I will probably try out Tsubaki if Rachel is as horribly nerfed as people say she is. Polly was really good when I played against her for one match in KOFXII though.
I played a bit of Continuum Shift the other day. Rachel is indeed nerfed, but I don't feel like she's any less fun to play. What's NOT fun is getting nailed by Bang's insanely long, insanely damaging combos. I hate watching myself lose so...slowly.
I like Tsubaki, though. I was hoping she'd be a bit more "crazy", though. She's fairly boring for a BlazBlue character. Just like...Jam v2.
You're FAR too kind about KOF, though. I was a total mess when we played each other. I'm always a total mess on that game. I'm amazed at what other players can accomplish with the input lag that so cripples me. I don't get angry at games normally, but KOFXII online turns me into a frothing beast.
So yeah...big congratulations on using Elizabeth in that environment.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Grave 1270th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "punch punch punch" , posted Wed 6 Jan 00:49
That AOF video is so, so fake but I'd actually be thrilled if SNK revisited a fighting franchise that wasn't KOF or some other crossover-type title. When was the last time that happened...? As a side bonus they'd have more sprites to use for KOF XIII! Everybody wins! Unless, of course, it sucks. Hmmm.
Now I also want the AOF collection, but I don't own it and my PS2 isn't even here! Still, GameStop has it for $10 used and I have a $5 credit. Should I get World Heroes or AOF?! MMCafe, choose my adventure!
Also, any of y'all Cafe folks on facebook want to join a series of very casual fighting game tournaments? It goes like this: game is announced on the first of the month or thereabouts, month it spent learning the game (and hopefully discussing it in the group, but nobody's doing that yet...!), last week is a tournament with matches played over GGPO or 2DF. We have 14 people now but I have a fear people will be flaking out when it's time to play their matches in a few weeks. Jan. is SFA2!
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Since we're speaking about online fighting games, it might be worth noting that it seems like the entire online Tekken 6 community consists of gangstas with sassy girlfriends/wives griping at them while a baby cries in the background.
It's exactly the way T5DR was! I kind of like it! But the randoms are a little less tolerant of the usual antics. Gangstas don't dig the intensely homoerotic atmosphere, I guess. I haven't played since the patch came out, has it really improved things significantly?
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I gave BlazBlue to a friend, since I was wrapped up in other games. I'm sure I won't be much competition by the time I get it back.
Hopefully they'll announce a date for the home version of CS soon! Still, I barely play anymore, I'd like to fix that but currently I am a great number of miles away my PS3. Oh well. We've brought a few new people into the group, one is fairly new comparatively but is a quick learner and a ton of fun to play with. When you get it back you should join!
Or you could just kick our asses at Tekken. I've barely touched it since the first two weeks or so and it's a damn shame, I really like it! But lately me and video games... not holding my attention span very well. Who else at the Cafe got Tekken 6 on PS3?
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I think I might have been the best by a VERY narrow margin when we started playing, but you guys got better and better very quickly and I couldn't keep up. Compare my early matches against Grave's Hakumen to my later ones.
Oh, that's true! I remember being impressed very early on that you had picked up some Rachel combos while I was still futzing around with basic moves and running like crazy. Still, it's so sweet of you to imply that I'm capable of learning! Others would beg to differ.
I think Chinatown Faire should have finally gotten their CS machine by now. I can't worry about getting to NYC until I worry about geting back to Boston, but I'd really like to get down there and play it sometime. Seeing people destroy things with Hakumen gets me really, really pumped!
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| Grave 1272th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):punch punch punch" , posted Wed 6 Jan 02:22
Wow, this is going well! I admit that I was leaning more toward WH because of the number of fans (and absurdly detailed threads) here, MMCafe got me into Vampire Savior and that went well, so I figured this will too! For $5 for either I certainly can't go wrong, but this should be more fun to talk about!
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I'm a little interested in BlazBlue:CS, although I'll admit I don't like the first game at all. In other words, I won't be fooled into wanting a game where I can't stand the character design by smooth as silk animation. That said, I actually DO like the character design of the two new characters, so maybe.
How much of CT have you played? I disliked most of the character designs when they were announced and CT was making its run in arcades, but I knew I'd buy it the day it came out because it was a new Arc System Works fighter with netplay. I came to like it almost immediately, everybody has so much personality and plays so differently, even the "boring goth loli" I thought I'd hate so much. Do you really think Tsubaki and boring design Hazama are all that much better than any of the others?
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I own Tekken 6 but I don't do online play.
No? Bad connection? Don't like the people? We're fun, I promise!
More PSN questions: anyone pick up the US version of Battle Fantasia yet? I'll DL it when I'm back to where my PS3 is. Fun little game, got the Japanese version way back when it came out but never got to play it with anyone I know.
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| karasu99 258th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(4):punch punch punch" , posted Wed 6 Jan 03:03
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How much of CT have you played? I disliked most of the character designs when they were announced and CT was making its run in arcades, but I knew I'd buy it the day it came out because it was a new Arc System Works fighter with netplay. I came to like it almost immediately, everybody has so much personality and plays so differently, even the "boring goth loli" I thought I'd hate so much. Do you really think Tsubaki and boring design Hazama are all that much better than any of the others?
They all just strike me as... well, overdesigned-- a few in particular: Tager, Carl, and Rachel being the absolute worst. That's not to say I don't like any of them though-- Hakumen, Bang, and Taokaka are pretty okay. And I have played some, but not a whole lot. I don't know, maybe I'll give it another shot and see if time has mellowed my opinion.
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No? Bad connection? Don't like the people? We're fun, I promise!
Eh, maybe I'll join. I suck, for one, so everyone here will outplay me. Although since I've been around here at the Cafe for a little while I suppose you all are no longer strangers, right? If I do decide to come and play online, my PSN id is robotchris.
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More PSN questions: anyone pick up the US version of Battle Fantasia yet? I'll DL it when I'm back to where my PS3 is. Fun little game, got the Japanese version way back when it came out but never got to play it with anyone I know.
I have Battle Fantasia (on the X360 though), although I had to really search locally to find it-- only one retailer locally stocked any, and even then they only received 3 copies, two of which employees at the store bought. It's a fun game and has a decent aesthetic and nicely designed characters. I suppose it's the medieval theme, but it reminds me a bit of Golden Axe: The Duel, only good.
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| Grave 1274th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(5):punch punch punch" , posted Wed 6 Jan 09:35
I hope you give BB another try! It exceeded my expectations, but I understand not everybody is going to love it. I'm glad that most of my friends have taken to it as well, even if that led to mbisonhatclub becoming a terrifying monster with Tager and Litchi, though I hope to improve my Hakumen to match before CS comes home! 
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Eh, maybe I'll join. I suck, for one, so everyone here will outplay me. Although since I've been around here at the Cafe for a little while I suppose you all are no longer strangers, right? If I do decide to come and play online, my PSN id is robotchris.
You never really get better unless you play with people! If the netcode has really improved, it should be a great time, T6 was lots of fun even with the bad netcode. I'm not a very good Tekken player outside of my Bryan (which is mostly lacking in any strategies developed post-Tekken 3), but I want to get better as well. I really love Lars, Alisa and Leo. My PSN username is Drakee, but I won't be near my system for a while still.
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I have Battle Fantasia (on the X360 though), although I had to really search locally to find it-- only one retailer locally stocked any, and even then they only received 3 copies, two of which employees at the store bought. It's a fun game and has a decent aesthetic and nicely designed characters. I suppose it's the medieval theme, but it reminds me a bit of Golden Axe: The Duel, only good.
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I got it last week and I have been enjoying it. I still don't understand that system that much but I treat it like I am playing with SFIII (I suck at gachi though). More people should play online! I usually never play story/arcade/1p mode and just stick to online play to "learn" the game. I know I have missed out a lot of things in certain games (BB) but in others it has gone great (KOFXII). It is probably a response of the years of playing by myself before I got a ps3 ;(
Yeah, there's something about the aesthetic that I really love. It drew me to the game long before I ever had the chance to play it or see much other than camera shots of it in a Vewlix cab. Shocked me how good it looked in HD in person, even with the somewhat rough-looking models. There's something about it that reminds me of Power Stone for some inexplicable reason, but that's a very good thing in this case.
There's a lack of good English-language information about the game (or was, been a while since I looked) so it's difficult to understand if I was doing a lot "right" or not, but with more of us playing it'll be easier to develop sound strategies, at least!
And yeah, it's very interesting to see what netplay, heavy coverage of tournaments and easy access to videos online has done for the way people learn and play fighting games. It's a very different way to spread knowledge and I'm sure all the smelly SSF2T veterans and other oldschool arcade creeps hate it, just as they hate showering. But I think putting better learning tools into the hands of all players is absolutely incredible. Getting the community's help for putting together the Blazblue LE was a great step and I'm excited to see where the genre goes in the future in terms of helping the more timid and less hardcore fans get the most out of the games.
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| Pollyanna 2824th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):gorrila fate is turning" , posted Wed 6 Jan 13:03
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It's exactly the way T5DR was! I kind of like it! But the randoms are a little less tolerant of the usual antics. Gangstas don't dig the intensely homoerotic atmosphere, I guess. I haven't played since the patch came out, has it really improved things significantly?
The patch is GREAT! It's not perfect, of course...and it's still tough to parry (not that I'm any good at parrying anyway), but it's very very playable...the best anyone could hope for. It's no BlazBlue, but excellent connections really are excellent.
The only thing is, connections tend to get lost more often than I'm used to. That, and people boot me like crazy! I have no idea why, either. If I like...kick their ass, totally suck or have a bad connection, I could understand...but they seem to boot me based on...I don't know. They don't like my handle? My icon?
I totally suck at Tekken, by the way. But I am completely unapologetically enthusiastic about sucking.
I'm tempted to get a mic and counter the "gangsta trash talk" with "snobby little British girl". Might need to pitch myself up if I want to go for like...10 year old, though.
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What about Hazama? You've played as him too?
Only a bit, and it didn't go as well as I had hoped. I'll have to give him another shot soon. I'm no expert, but early impressions are:
1) His air combos are cool and super fast. Three times the number of hits in 1/3 the time as Hakumen or Bang!
2) Learning spacing and trajectory on his moves seems to be the first hill to climb. His drive is a good way to make an opening.
3) His kick super looks boring, but is really handy and can be followed by a chain and his other super.
4) He has a weird pace to him. Sometimes he moves really fast and sometimes he moves really slow.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Iron D 3358th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):punch punch punch" , posted Wed 6 Jan 13:06
quote:
I hope you give BB another try! It exceeded my expectations, but I understand not everybody is going to love it. I'm glad that most of my friends have taken to it as well, even if that led to mbisonhatclub becoming a terrifying monster with Tager and Litchi, though I hope to improve my Hakumen to match before CS comes home!
Eh, maybe I'll join. I suck, for one, so everyone here will outplay me. Although since I've been around here at the Cafe for a little while I suppose you all are no longer strangers, right? If I do decide to come and play online, my PSN id is robotchris.
You never really get better unless you play with people! If the netcode has really improved, it should be a great time, T6 was lots of fun even with the bad netcode. I'm not a very good Tekken player outside of my Bryan (which is mostly lacking in any strategies developed post-Tekken 3), but I want to get better as well. I really love Lars, Alisa and Leo. My PSN username is Drakee, but I won't be near my system for a while still.
I have Battle Fantasia (on the X360 though), although I had to really search locally to find it-- only one retailer locally stocked any, and even then they only received 3 copies, two of which employees at the store bought. It's a fun game and has a decent aesthetic and nicely designed characters. I suppose it's the medieval theme, but it reminds me a bit of Golden Axe: The Duel, only good.
I got it last week and I have been enjoying it. I still don't understand that system that much but I treat it like I am playing with SFIII (I suck at gachi though). More people should play online! I usually never play story/arcade/1p mode and just stick to online play to "learn" the game. I know I have missed out a lot of things in certain games (BB) but in others it has gone great (KOFXII). It is probably a response of the years of playing by myself before I got a ps3 ;(
Yeah, there's something about the aesthetic that I really love. It drew me to the game long before I ever had the chance to play it or see much other than camera shots of it in a Vewlix cab. Shocked me how good it looked in HD in person, even with the somewhat rough-looking models. There's something about it that reminds me of Power Stone for some inexplicable reason, but that's a very good thing in this case.
There's a lack of good English-language information about the game (or was, been a while since I looked) so it's difficult to understand if I was doing a lot "right" or not, but with more of us playing it'll be easier to develop sound strategies, at least!
And yeah, it's very interesting to see what netplay, heavy coverage of tournaments and easy access to videos online has done for the way people learn and play fighting games. It's a very different way to spread knowledge and I'm sure all the smelly SSF2T veterans and other oldschool arcade creeps hate it, just as they hate showering. But I think putting better learning tools into the hands of all players is absolutely incredible. Getting the community's help for putting together the Blazblue LE was a great step and I'm excited to see where the genre goes in the future in terms of helping the more timid and less hardcore fans get the most out of the games.
I am playing Tekken 6 online, for anyone interested in playing against me. I'm...decent...definitely not as good as I should be after having played every Tekken game. I tend to get beaten pretty badly against some folks, but I can generally hold my own okay.
I actually don't have many MMCafe folks on my friends list anymore. You guys just aren't online that often, and when you are you're not playing anything that I am. I play T6 and SSF2THDR mostly.
Er.....
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| Nekros
217th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(4):gorrila fate is turning" , posted Wed 6 Jan 19:59
quote:
What about Hazama? You've played as him too?
Only a bit, and it didn't go as well as I had hoped. I'll have to give him another shot soon. I'm no expert, but early impressions are:
1) His air combos are cool and super fast. Three times the number of hits in 1/3 the time as Hakumen or Bang!
2) Learning spacing and trajectory on his moves seems to be the first hill to climb. His drive is a good way to make an opening.
3) His kick super looks boring, but is really handy and can be followed by a chain and his other super.
4) He has a weird pace to him. Sometimes he moves really fast and sometimes he moves really slow.
It reminds me of I-no in some ways... strong aerial moves and combos, wacky timing/spacing in normals and ground combos. Need training but seems more interesting than Tsubaki.
Side note: I've beaten story mode in Overture yesterday. I agree with Grave, it's not a crappy game, but it's for fans only. I appreciate the story and general setting, loved the characters and some twists of the gameplay. I find a nice surprise the Senko No Ronde-styled fight and the first part of the final boss fight, similar to Sonic's epic battle against Perfect Chaos.
The "strategy" part is not that bad, either. It's a mediocre game in terms of realisation and technology but it has a warm heart that only real GG otakus can understand and appreciate.
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| Pollyanna 2828th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Can't shut up about FFXIII" , posted Thu 14 Jan 18:55
Sooo...the FFXIII "final" trailer is out in English if those who care snf didn't catch it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJPbozRomX4&feature=related
Grumpy internet people seem to be making a stink about the song change, but if it's any consolation, I can say that the original theme song made almost no impact on the game whatsoever.
That is to say, it was pasted onto the ending FMV, which I'm sure was completed well over a year ago and without that particular song in mind.
Now if they change the other main vocal themes, that would be problematic. (Although I don't think that's the case)
In other FFXIII news, it was reported that enough was cut from the game to make an entirely new game. This is terrible to hear, but easy to believe, as the game got extremely spotty here and there and did a poor job of explaining the world that they put so much effort into building. For a full understanding of things, it's quite necessary to read some of the notes the game unlocks as you move along.
Also, I got the impression that the FMV was made long before the game was finished and some plot points had to be...massaged a bit to match up.
Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the game immensely, and its good points are extremely good...it's just that it leaves you with a sense of "wasted potential" after it's all said and done. Incidentally, I felt the same way about FFXII.
I...I think that's all I have to say about the game now?
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Pollyanna 2829th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Can't shut up about FFXIII" , posted Sat 16 Jan 04:48
quote:
Is Squenix still planning on releasing three to six other FFXIII games? I doubt that the massive amount of material left out of FFXIII proper could be used for FFXIII Versus or whatever the rest of the titles are going to be called but I do wonder if this overarching project is so large that the creators are starting to lose control.
Who knows! We could see a FFXIII-2 that undoes the
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
bittersweet
End of Spoiler
ending just like FFX-2 did! Otherwise, I feel like the world is so unique that they would have to refigure the environments to squeeze them into anything. Guess it depends on if the areas are from Cocoon or Pulse.
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The voice acting is actually really well done in the English version.
Yeah, even after spending 70 hours with the Japanese cast, they still sound pretty good. I have nitpicks here and there (Lighting has a great voice, but is trying about 15% too hard), but it looks like it'll be a (expectedly) solid dub. Hope sounds especially good and I was delighted that Dysley sounds all right, too (he was my favorite performance in Japanese).
I'd take a FFXIII International with new content for sure!
quote:
Relatedly, remember how the FMV in XII was really...lackluster? Not a shade different from X, and the in-game characters, as I recall you noting, looked so much better. Come to think of it, XIII seems to have been delayed quite a few times, too, continuing the traditiona of high-tech FMV obsolesence.
The textures on the FFXII renders just couldn't be beat. They added so much personality to the world. The FMV just looked sterile in comparison. I don't think it was an issue of technology, though...
The FMV in FFXIII look great, but I think they're tied into my biggest problem with FFXII- sloppy storytelling. In FFXII I feel like they had a great story, but when they plugged it into a game, they had to come up with a bunch of useless things to keep the characters busy (while the plot went on elsewhere). In FFXIII, they have a rich, detailed world that they can't bother explaining because the characters are too wrapped up in "more exciting" things.
What I meant about the FMV in relation to this is that they sometimes feel like they were...not "made for a different game" but "made when something else was in mind for certain points in the game".
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| hikarutilmitt 529th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(5):Advanced Variable Geo 2 combos" , posted Wed 20 Jan 07:46
quote:
So I'm guessing that AVG2 is the one to look for if I wanted to try the series out? According to Wiki, many of the others are visual novels.
Latching on to that mention of Asuka 120%, anyone want to suggest the very best one in the series if I was going to buy just one? I had one of the Saturn ones (don't recall which one, honestly) years ago but I've always wanted to give the series one more shot since it was so much fun.
Yeah, VG was a fighting game series until VG Custom and VG Max. After that it became bullshit. The shame of it all is that BG Neo has some interesting character designs, the only returning character was Yuka (known as "Misty" and "Miss T" depending on how you translate it, but it works either way as Miss Takeuchi) trying out a Clark Kent disguise. Honestly, Advanced VG2 is easily the best of the fighting games, unless you want to consider VG Custom to be its equal (since it more or less IS AVG2 with the porn put back in). VG Max is a lot of fun, too, though.
Asuka 120%...... I'll go on a limb and say Burning Fest Final (and subsequently Limited on the Saturn, if you don't care for PSX fighters) would be the"best" one, though certainly not the most popular.
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| Toxico 4846th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(1):Latest random thread" , posted Fri 22 Jan 14:21:
quote:
NGBC comes to XBLA with... different graphics.
I was wondering, why they would they bother to redrawn everything portrait wise, but thanks to this famitsu article now is pretty obvious that this game is getting a pseudo re-bout treatment.
Oh, and also, Sky stage should be out in the arcades today.... I know we all care.
EDIT :
Gah, I totally not saw that article when I checked the site... Also, The official website has updated with some character CGs for the early small villains (Z, Heart sama, Kiba clan / King)... I'm kinda interested on seeing how the colonel will end up, specially if they do try to make something on his hide / seek / banish fight.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Translation txt currently off line.
Now sponsoring : video game analogies (ES)
Last update : Chapter 15 as of 21/01/10
[this message was edited by Toxico on Fri 22 Jan 18:30] |
| Gojira 2572th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Mon 25 Jan 01:52
quote:
It wouldn't be such a shame if Capcom didn't have so many immensely talented artists working for them. It's not about how much I dislike Udon as how much I like their other artists instead. I feel robbed...of their art.
I think they only use their own art in games that they think will sell well. TvC doesn't exactly have an overwhelming track record of success at this point. Factor in an extremely uncertain market for the game outside of Japan and well, you could just be glad there's even anything to feel cheated about.
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I promise you that I'm not nerd raging as hard as this post makes it sound. While I really (really) dislike UDON, I understand how inconsequential this all is in perspective. With that out of the way, the post as it originally tumbled out of my brain:
What Polly said, mostly. I've seen very few products from UDON artists that haven't struck me as crass fanart compared to Capcom art of the past and present. I don't like what they do. My feelings about this didn't turn into full-blown hate until HD Remix though. That shit is disgusting and we're going to have to look at it for years. Can't even make the old sprites display properly. Vile.
Every time I see UDON's artwork get tied up in a product I otherwise might enjoy or used in some official context with Capcom it just seems wrong. It's like hiring some 13 year old girl from fanfiction.net to pen the next Kingdom Hearts game. They might have actually done that. ANYWAY. MOVING ON. Have you even seen the artwork they did to promote MvC2?! Good god, it was laughable. Seeing them work with Capcom is like a pack of deviantArt assholes shitting all over things that I really like. Their stuff has always rubbed me the wrong way and it probably always will.
At least they had the sense not to let them touch the box art or the character art! Shinkiro's work for this game is absolutely fantastic.
To each his own of course, but having seen much better from Udon than HD Remix I can at least avoid balking at the mention of the name.
HD Remix was not going to be impressive whether Udon was involved or not anyway. From the start it was easy (for me, at least) to see how much Capcom themselves were underestimating the entire process. But putting that aside, yes there was some bad stuff in there. The upside is that - even though it was reported as a success - with all the problems they had and money they wasted you'll probably never see something like that again.
I have seen a few cases where Udon produced art that was as good as the original Capcom art, but that's mostly Arnold Tsang's stuff. I think that's probably why Capcom has trusted them to do the job, though they might not be aware that Tsang hasn't been with Udon for years and only does a few odd pieces for them these days like this Juri pinup that IMHO looks way better than her "official" SSF4 art. He also did those SF3-style SF4 sprites you might have seen a few months ago, though at the time nobody knew it was him.
I guess what I'm saying is, screw Udon, Capcom should just get Arnold Tsang working for them.
... was that what this was about? I forget. Oh yeah, Shinkirou's TvC art is impressive. Even though I always liked the style, TvC is probably the least awkward it's ever been. I should stop writing random stuff and go to bed now
shipoopi
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| Grave 1285th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Mon 25 Jan 06:51
quote:
Why is the discussion about the endings in TvC turning into a Capcom/Udon debate? Weren't the original endings done by Tatsunoko?
I read it more as a "justify why you hate UDON" sort of affair myself.
quote:
HD Remix was not going to be impressive whether Udon was involved or not anyway. From the start it was easy (for me, at least) to see how much Capcom themselves were underestimating the entire process. But putting that aside, yes there was some bad stuff in there. The upside is that - even though it was reported as a success - with all the problems they had and money they wasted you'll probably never see something like that again.
I have seen a few cases where Udon produced art that was as good as the original Capcom art, but that's mostly Arnold Tsang's stuff. I think that's probably why Capcom has trusted them to do the job, though they might not be aware that Tsang hasn't been with Udon for years and only does a few odd pieces for them these days like this Juri pinup that IMHO looks way better than her "official" SSF4 art. He also did those SF3-style SF4 sprites you might have seen a few months ago, though at the time nobody knew it was him.
I guess what I'm saying is, screw Udon, Capcom should just get Arnold Tsang working for them.
I think you're right about HDR, but the amount of people who defend that eye-searing product is staggering. Nothing about that game looks good! Not the menus, not the HUD, not the backgrounds, not the sprites in stills, DEFINITELY not the animation. It's almost impressive. I hope they don't do it again.
I agree that Arnold Tsang is definitely among the more agreeable of them, but I'm not wacky about his style all the time. His SF Tribute cover is okay and that Juri art is quite nice. He did do some ass-kicking One Piece fanart too, so there's that!
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| Spoon 1884th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(4):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Mon 25 Jan 13:49
quote:
Why is the discussion about the endings in TvC turning into a Capcom/Udon debate? Weren't the original endings done by Tatsunoko?
I read it more as a "justify why you hate UDON" sort of affair myself.
HD Remix was not going to be impressive whether Udon was involved or not anyway. From the start it was easy (for me, at least) to see how much Capcom themselves were underestimating the entire process. But putting that aside, yes there was some bad stuff in there. The upside is that - even though it was reported as a success - with all the problems they had and money they wasted you'll probably never see something like that again.
I have seen a few cases where Udon produced art that was as good as the original Capcom art, but that's mostly Arnold Tsang's stuff. I think that's probably why Capcom has trusted them to do the job, though they might not be aware that Tsang hasn't been with Udon for years and only does a few odd pieces for them these days like this Juri pinup that IMHO looks way better than her "official" SSF4 art. He also did those SF3-style SF4 sprites you might have seen a few months ago, though at the time nobody knew it was him.
I guess what I'm saying is, screw Udon, Capcom should just get Arnold Tsang working for them.
I think you're right about HDR, but the amount of people who defend that eye-searing product is staggering. Nothing about that game looks good! Not the menus, not the HUD, not the backgrounds, not the sprites in stills, DEFINITELY not the animation. It's almost impressive. I hope they don't do it again.
I agree that Arnold Tsang is definitely among the more agreeable of them, but I'm not wacky about his style all the time. His SF Tribute cover is okay and that Juri art is quite nice. He did do some ass-kicking One Piece fanart too, so there's that!
I remember a sketch of an SF cover that featured a 3S Makoto that was more man than tomboy.
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| Pollyanna 2836th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):capcom sucks" , posted Tue 26 Jan 19:16
For the record, I have a long-standing grudge with Capcom of America. For years, I could never trust that they wouldn't screw up a release in some way. It could be the smallest thing, but they would find a way to do something to make the US version of all their games inferior. As a result, I would go out of my way to import everything Capcom put out...partially out of spite.
That wrath is mostly unfounded these days, but I do enjoy blaming things on them all the same.
Still, it's not as if Capcom of Japan is innocent, either...:
quote:
So the big Xbox surprise was Monster Hunter Frontier. I mean, I guess it makes sense. I don't know how anyone can get excited about paying a $15 a month fee for a console online RPG, but hey, that's just me! I guess I was the only one pulling for a direct sequel to Dino Crisis 2. Sad.
Beat me to it!
MHF always seemed to be the lame kind of...Monster Hunter stepchild, and it sucks that it still looks so last gen on 360...and you have to pay the ridiculously high hunter's license on top of a Gold membership. Couldn't you download the game for free on PC, too? Not looking cool, Xbox.
On the upside, though...even though the game looks inferior to Tri in so many ways, at least it provides and ongoing, frequently updated MH experience. Tri is awesome, but its time is very short-lived in the big picture.
Here's hoping it catches on/comes out in the US!
quote:
-Gears of War meatheads appearing in the 360 version of Lost Planet 2! Oh, and LP2 is dated now. May 18. I guess I have another 4 months of playing the demo over and over. Grumble grumble.
May 18!? Brutal! I was about to say "well, that's just the Japanese date", but that's May 20th. Rgggh! They released that demo WAYYY too early! The game was scheduled for 2009 not so long ago!
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Pollyanna 2837th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):Latest random thread" , posted Tue 26 Jan 20:06
quote:
I don't know what's wrong with your setup, but are you using component cables/progressive scan? Turn the sharpness down on your set and remove post-processing, which also contributes to upscaling lag.
I realize you're only trying to be helpful, but you've asked me several times about the component cable thing. To me, asking if I'm using component cables on an HDTV is like asking me if I brush my teeth with a toothbrush instead of using my finger.
If the Wii looked good in HD, people wouldn't be so excited about playing in 1080p on emulator. For kicks, I ran the emulator through my TV and it looked dramatically better...in my eye at least.
I can't tell you what you think looks acceptable or not, and to be fair, I tend to be really picky about this sort of thing. Rather than me thinking you're blind and you thinking I don't know how to operate my own TV, instead, I'd like it if we both thought that I'm just pickier about something that doesn't mean as much to you.
quote:
Capcom's took a rather huge risk with this game, so I'll show my support of it.
I don't really care what comes to America or not, and I already bought the first game, but when you put it this way, I feel a bit guilty for potentially discouraging buyers. I should be hoping for the success of any 2D(ish) fighter in any market, really.
I'd rather play BlazBlue, but I hope anyone who picks up TvC has a blast with it.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Grave 1289th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(8):Latest random thread" , posted Wed 27 Jan 06:23:
quote:
tl;dr - Capcom's took a rather huge risk with this game, so I'll show my support of it.
I don't know, ideally I want to support everyone's fighting games. Of course, when they come out and I find out what's wrong it's another story. Sorry KOF XII. I just couldn't do it.
Anyway, I think I can afford to be a little bit nitpicky when a company is asking me to buy my second copy of a game. If the Japanese version of the updated TvC has remedied at least some of the problems that I have with the US version, well, if I buy it again I'm sure not buying the US release. I hope it's a success for Capcom, I really do, but I don't feel that I'm obligated to pick it up because they took a chance on a title that will most likely not do so hot.
edit: Has anyone heard about the status of the music in the Japanese version? It did come out at the same time, I think.
[this message was edited by Grave on Wed 27 Jan 06:25] |
| sfried 469th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(9):Latest random thread" , posted Wed 27 Jan 09:52:
quote:
Anyway, I think I can afford to be a little bit nitpicky when a company is asking me to buy my second copy of a game. If the Japanese version of the updated TvC has remedied at least some of the problems that I have with the US version, well, if I buy it again I'm sure not buying the US release. I hope it's a success for Capcom, I really do, but I don't feel that I'm obligated to pick it up because they took a chance on a title that will most likely not do so hot.
Considering this is my first and probably only copy of the game, I don't see why we should assume everyone here is an expert game importer. I usually wait until a game is translated/localized, not necessarily because I want the publisher to know there's demand in this region, but because buying the local copy tends to be cheaper than importing overall. This is the same reason I held out on importing a PC-E considering Rondo of Blood has gotten/is getting several translated rereleases (Dracula X Chronicles, Virtual Console) at a much cheaper price.
There's also the case of bugfixes, which in this case the international editions tend to receive since their release from their native land (unless Vic Ireland is handling the localization :wink: ).
[this message was edited by sfried on Wed 27 Jan 09:56] |
| Pollyanna 2838th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Wed 27 Jan 19:04
Correction:
The original opening to TvC is included, you just have to unlock it. Also, I believe a few Tatsunoko songs are included in the endings, so it is indeed as Toxico said.
So as for the soundtrack... Wii storage is not that pathetic, and Capcom grossly exaggerated their licensing issues.
quote:
it's as fun as MvC2 but less broken and gives you more control about what you do.
This much at least I can agree with. I liked the sense of originality that so many of the characters had, but I failed to see it realized in the game itself. After a while, so many cleverly-designed moves just seemed useless and most of the characters started to feel the same.
This could be my failure to grasp the game as much as its own shortcomings, though. Do you have any videos of how the game is "supposed to be played" that might change my opinion?
If the game was not a vs-style game and looked slightly better on a different console, I might like it quite a bit. As is, it has too many (personal) strikes against it.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Iggy 9052th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Wed 27 Jan 19:46
quote:
This could be my failure to grasp the game as much as its own shortcomings, though. Do you have any videos of how the game is "supposed to be played" that might change my opinion?
OK, I think we stand on too different grounds to agree on this.
I have a completely relaxed feeling about the game, I am definitely not delving into it (I barely do any baroque combo, for example). I enjoyed it as a game that didn't require me to learn many systems and strings of combos (well, mostly because I was used to MvC, though. The game would probably have felt completely obscure if I had just been playing street fighter).
But I think you are at a much higher level of play than I am. I still think GGXX and BlazBlue are too complicated for me; they do seem interesting, especially BB, but I would have the feeling of missing completely the point if I didn't spent one full week understanding and mastering each and every system. The games just aren't fun if you just fool around doing basic stuff.
TvC, on the other hand, is certainly less deep and varied than BB. But it's also more fun as a game that you would just pick up for an evening with friends who have a basic understanding of fighting games. Or even to play to occupy a boring evening while waiting for someone or something.
I did study Bayonetta. But I found out I just don't feel like studying a fighting game anymore, at least not a modern one.
So, yeah, there it is. Maybe TvC is not a modern fighting game. Thank god!
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| Pollyanna 2839th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Thu 28 Jan 05:35
quote:
OK, I think we stand on too different grounds to agree on this.
I have a completely relaxed feeling about the game, I am definitely not delving into it (I barely do any baroque combo, for example). I enjoyed it as a game that didn't require me to learn many systems and strings of combos (well, mostly because I was used to MvC, though. The game would probably have felt completely obscure if I had just been playing street fighter).
But I think you are at a much higher level of play than I am. I still think GGXX and BlazBlue are too complicated for me; they do seem interesting, especially BB, but I would have the feeling of missing completely the point if I didn't spent one full week understanding and mastering each and every system. The games just aren't fun if you just fool around doing basic stuff.
TvC, on the other hand, is certainly less deep and varied than BB. But it's also more fun as a game that you would just pick up for an evening with friends who have a basic understanding of fighting games. Or even to play to occupy a boring evening while waiting for someone or something.
I did study Bayonetta. But I found out I just don't feel like studying a fighting game anymore, at least not a modern one.
So, yeah, there it is. Maybe TvC is not a modern fighting game. Thank god!
Ah, okay. That makes sense. I don't want to give the impression that I'm super awesome at fighting games, though...I'm just an enthusiast.
Playing online has made me aware that my type is not the norm. Most players are either so bad it's hilarious or so good it's insane. I find it difficult to find players that are decent, but not incredible.
I have a tough time with games that require you to learn too much as well. I've played Guilty Gear enthusiastically since the first game, but I still don't "know" how to play. Everything in Tekken is so complicated, counterintuitive and requires so much memorization that I have to spend an hour in training for every week I take off from the game.
I don't think BlazBlue is so bad, though. There is an initial hill to climb where you become familiar with your character (they're all so specifically useful), but after that, it's fairly easy to get into for something so complicated. Although I still can't comprehend what people are doing in high-level Guilty Gear tournaments, the contestants in BlazBlue tournaments do the same thing I do, only better.
I have trouble getting my friends into fighting games because they require so much out of you. Even TvC was unpopular because "it has scary combos and I don't know what's going on". TvC is a great fighter for casual players who fondly remember playing MvC "back in the day", but I wonder if a universally accessible decent fighting game is really possible.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| hikarutilmitt 532th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(4):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Thu 28 Jan 06:34
quote:
I don't think BlazBlue is so bad, though. There is an initial hill to climb where you become familiar with your character (they're all so specifically useful), but after that, it's fairly easy to get into for something so complicated. Although I still can't comprehend what people are doing in high-level Guilty Gear tournaments, the contestants in BlazBlue tournaments do the same thing I do, only better.
Honestly, speaking as a GG fan, I found BB to be much easier to get into for newer players specifically because they dialed down so much of the ridiculous shit GG had going on in it. They simplified the cancel system to only having a single type (so just Rapid Cancel which is essentially Roman Cancel, but there's no false version to worry about trying to hit), the gauges are many but not hard to keep track of and the game is just more FUN, to me. It has a better input buffer to utilize and in general it's just a lot less strenuous to play.
I wish there were a demo version you could try out, Iggy, because you might be able to like it if given the chance.
Polly: I think some time we may need to schedule a time to play online. My Litchi needs an itch scratched ever since I went to Austin to play Continuum Shift and wasn't able to due to a lack of dollar coins.
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| Gojira 2574th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Latest random thread" , posted Thu 28 Jan 07:11
quote:
It has nothing to do with the storage capacity; it has to do with licensing.
As Toxico said, it's not the licensing. Capcom owns its own music after all, and the idea that they could license the characters but not the music is plain ludicrous.
Also yes, Wii games have average DVD storage capacity, about 4.7 GB. Which you might THINK is enough, but 1) quality sound can take up a lot of space, 2) they're already using twice as much audio for the voice samples in TvC, and 3) Wii optical discs are a proprietary Nintendo media with their own kind of audio formatting. So maybe they could handle a lot of music, but also maybe not.
So while I do agree that the new soundtrack is a creative choice, the exclusion of the old soundtrack may not have been.
shipoopi
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| Iron D 3365th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Thu 28 Jan 07:49
quote:
TvC is a great fighter for casual players who fondly remember playing MvC "back in the day", but I wonder if a universally accessible decent fighting game is really possible.
You know, I consider fighting games to be my favorite genre of videogame, but this is a thought that has come to me quite often recently (especially with all this talk of fighting games that are "easy to jump into").
I will say right now without hesitation that I believe that SFIV fits that bill pretty easily, with it not having any overly complicated systems to get used to and SF gameplay that should be familiar to every fighting game player out there. However, I know there are those on this board who don't like the game.
As for traditional 3d fighting games, I don't think their systems are overly complicated, but their move lists sure the hell are. I'm a huge fan of both Tekken and Soul Calibur, but at this point Tekken has over 40 characters and each has OVER 100 moves (with some having over 200). It's at the point where I have to go into training mode EVERY time I am playing a different character.
Playing online has made me aware that my type is not the norm. Most players are either so bad it's hilarious or so good it's insane. I find it difficult to find players that are decent, but not incredible.
Well, I must be garbage at Tekken then, considering the ass-whooping you gave me the other week.
Er.....
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| Grave 1290th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(5):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Thu 28 Jan 11:42
Sigh. I really do want to get the US TvC, even if the changes they've made piss me off. But since I barely hook the Wii up at all these days I don't know if it'd be worth it. I don't know what to do! Maybe I'll just buy Bayonetta. That sounds smarter.
quote:
TvC, on the other hand, is certainly less deep and varied than BB. But it's also more fun as a game that you would just pick up for an evening with friends who have a basic understanding of fighting games. Or even to play to occupy a boring evening while waiting for someone or something.
I think TvC strikes a good balance. I guess it's about as stripped down as a vs.-type game can be while retaining everything that makes it fun. It's visually quite exciting and the controls are simple enough for beginners to grasp. The characters may be unfamiliar to many but there are a lot of very appealing designs and different playstyles. I always hesitate to compare it to something like Smash Bros, which I think is fun but doesn't appeal to me in the same way that a traditional fighting game does at all. But it does have an SB-like appeal in that its presentation and gameplay seems nonthreatening to people who aren't hardcore fighting game fans. I hope it's successful in the world! Mostly because I'd like to see it on the HD consoles. Maybe I'll dust off the Wii and see if I can rent the US version the next time friends are coming by. This is not helping my willpower. Grarrghh.
quote:
Playing online has made me aware that my type is not the norm. Most players are either so bad it's hilarious or so good it's insane. I find it difficult to find players that are decent, but not incredible.
I don't know that I agree. Most of the randoms I've played in BB seem to fall in the mid-range with me. There are certainly beasts that show up from time to time and certainly people who are just hopeless at the game, but in my experience they represent a smaller number of players. Hmm! It is a mystery.
quote:
I have a tough time with games that require you to learn too much as well. I've played Guilty Gear enthusiastically since the first game, but I still don't "know" how to play. Everything in Tekken is so complicated, counterintuitive and requires so much memorization that I have to spend an hour in training for every week I take off from the game.
I don't think BlazBlue is so bad, though. There is an initial hill to climb where you become familiar with your character (they're all so specifically useful), but after that, it's fairly easy to get into for something so complicated. Although I still can't comprehend what people are doing in high-level Guilty Gear tournaments, the contestants in BlazBlue tournaments do the same thing I do, only better.
Agreed all around, really. BB is a lot friendlier than GG (and a whole lot moreso than Tekken!), and I think the fact that it's young has a lot to do with that. The roster is small and very manageable to not only learn your favorite characters, but all the others and what they're capable of which is key to getting better at any fighting game. The input timing is pretty forgiving and the whole thing seems far more accessible. That seems to drive GG fans into an uncontrollable rage. I enjoy it because it means lots of friends get into the game and get more out of it!
Also I guess with CT being the first installment the systems don't have a lot of time to get overcomplicated. I've been playing GG since a friend picked up the ugly-ass PS1 game on a whim when we were kids and I guess the changes made through GGX, XX, #R / and AC make more sense when you're there at every step along the way... but that doesn't mean I'm good at any of them! The GGXX games have scared off lots of my friends, but several later came around because of BB, believe it or not. I honestly don't know if I'd rather play BB or GG these days, maybe they could port AC+ to PS3 with BB's netcode and we could find out.
But then again I have a lot of casual fighter fan friends who adore GG and we had great times playing those games together. Hmm! It is a mystery.
quote:
I will say right now without hesitation that I believe that SFIV fits that bill pretty easily, with it not having any overly complicated systems to get used to and SF gameplay that should be familiar to every fighting game player out there. However, I know there are those on this board who don't like the game.
The focus system is pretty dumb, FADC is a clunky and unintuitive mechanic. The only things SF4 really has working in favor of newbies:
1. Characters that even your parents know
2. Free Ultra moves for getting your ass beaten
Everyone fell for the "it's easy for beginners to pick up! not like that evil SF3!" hype and it sucks because it's not entirely true. I have to believe that a casual fighting game fan with casual fighting game fan friends will get a lot more mileage out of TvC.
Also I heard that Yoshinori Ono is a coprophiliac
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| Pollyanna 2840th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Thu 28 Jan 12:12
Don't tell me there's a storage issue with TvC. That's ridiculous. The Arc Rise soundtrack had 71 tracks, the game was fully voiced with probably more than 20 hours of spoken dialogue and it had at least as much FMV with many more and (most likely) higher-poly renders than TvC.
quote:
Well, I must be garbage at Tekken then, considering the ass-whooping you gave me the other week.
You used a lot of characters and your skill between characters varied dramatically. I may have been better across the board, but your best vs my best was pretty even.
I'd say we're both mediocre? Hahaha...
On the subject of SF4
I think really getting into it is difficult. It's not user friendly if you want to play "correctly". However, I do think that low-level players can play other low-level players and have a great time. As can mid-level players and high-level players, as long as their skill levels are roughly the same.
I agree with Grave in that it's "easy to pick up"-ness is overrated in comparison to SF3. Sure, a SF3 rookie who can't parry would get creamed by someone who could, but a beginner in SFIV would get beat just as badly.
On a somewhat related note, I had hell with all of SF4's buttons and button combinations on a PS3 pad. I'm SO glad I have an arcade stick now. I can't wait for Super.
On the subject of BlazBlue
I'm looking forward to playing with everyone again somedayyyyy!
Maybe I should try to go back and play GG with a joystick now that I have one. I might be able to do better this time around. I certainly love the series. I'd love to see an HD reboot with a (mostly) new cast and a slightly simplified system. BlazBlue is a great model for "complex, but manageable."
Speaking of which, I think the forgiving input timing in BB is something that more fighters should adopt. It allows for players to do just about anything without hitting a huge, frustrating wall (hello, SF3!). There's no reason to "withhold" the ability to perform techniques and combos from less-skilled players other than to perpetuate the elitist fighting game monarchy that I can only imagine has contributed to the genre's downfall. I don't see any advantage to excessively strict timing.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Iron D 3366th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Thu 28 Jan 12:54
quote:
The focus system is pretty dumb, FADC is a clunky and unintuitive mechanic. The only things SF4 really has working in favor of newbies:
1. Characters that even your parents know
2. Free Ultra moves for getting your ass beaten
Everyone fell for the "it's easy for beginners to pick up! not like that evil SF3!" hype and it sucks because it's not entirely true. I have to believe that a casual fighting game fan with casual fighting game fan friends will get a lot more mileage out of TvC.
Well again, I realize that not everyone will like the focus system, but then again there are those that hate the parry system, those that hated Alpha Counters and even those that hate there being supers at all. And I'm willing to believe that TvC is easier to pick up and play, but I couldn't say from experience since I have yet to play TvC at all.
The focus system is just like the rest of SF4: easy to pick up and use from the beginning, but more complex than is immediately evident.
quote:
I think really getting into it is difficult. It's not user friendly if you want to play "correctly". However, I do think that low-level players can play other low-level players and have a great time. As can mid-level players and high-level players, as long as their skill levels are roughly the same.
I agree with Grave in that it's "easy to pick up"-ness is overrated in comparison to SF3. Sure, a SF3 rookie who can't parry would get creamed by someone who could, but a beginner in SFIV would get beat just as badly.
Agreed on the first paragraph. But on the second paragraph...well, since we're talking about the strictness of input timing, SF3's was waaaay tighter than SF4's. In fact, SF4 is the first SF where I can regularly pull off a crouching forward to Shoryuken. That's perhaps the foremost reason I'd say SF4 is at least somewhat easier to get into than SF3.
quote:
On a somewhat related note, I had hell with all of SF4's buttons and button combinations on a PS3 pad. I'm SO glad I have an arcade stick now. I can't wait for Super.
Wait...what!?!
Er.....
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| Pollyanna 2841th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Thu 28 Jan 13:22
quote:
Agreed on the first paragraph. But on the second paragraph...well, since we're talking about the strictness of input timing, SF3's was waaaay tighter than SF4's. In fact, SF4 is the first SF where I can regularly pull off a crouching forward to Shoryuken. That's perhaps the foremost reason I'd say SF4 is at least somewhat easier to get into than SF3.
I was talking more about advanced sort of things. Like some of the moves in the high level training combos in SF4 that require such precise timing. SF3 had a lot of stuff like that as well.
I haven't played SF3 or SF4 in ages, let alone one after the next to compare the two. I'll have to take your word for it. I certainly don't think SF4 was worse, but I found some of the upper level tactics in both games to be needlessly inaccessible.
quote:
Hmm? I think she meant the fact that the PS3 pad is just like the PS2 pad, but crappy. The trigger buttons range from awful to unusuable, depending on my mood, and we did all right with the PS2 pads before getting the Saturn pads. This is the worst generation of controllers ever.
...oops, or did you mean the part about being excited about SSFIV? I could see being "excited." More so than IV, anyway, for what it's worth.
This is all true. Those trigger buttons are terrible and although the pad isn't unbearable it's been downgraded from the PS2's "satisfactory" to (at least) "slightly unsatisfactory".
In the context, I was saying that I'm excited about using an arcade stick on SSF4 for reduced controller frustrations.
But I am excited about the game in general, too. I think SF4 is ugly and it doesn't really agree with my preferred fighting game sensibilities, but I love fighting games and I'm happy whenever a new one comes out. I spent a lot of time with SF4, and although that time was freckled with frustration and disappointment, I can't say I didn't enjoy myself immensely. I'm sure I'll enjoy SSF4 just as much, and that's good enough for me.
I'm not nuts about TvC either, but I had my good time with it all the same.
One thing I REALLY hope they keep in SSF4 is the "play a random song while you're waiting for an online match". That was the best idea in that whole game. Having only one "waiting for a match" song is insanely short-sighted.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Spoon 1889th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(7):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Thu 28 Jan 14:30
quote:
. It allows for players to do just about anything without hitting a huge, frustrating wall (hello, SF3!).
Ahah! Friends and I played SF Zero 2 and 3 like it was our job but never got around to 3S until the PS2 edition came out. We were never sloppy to begin with, but I could never shake the feeling, after all those Zero hours, that 3S was being a bit of a pain in the ass with its inputs...
One of the things about 3S's design that is a bit odd is that there is an absence of general link combos for a lot of characters. In ST or SF2, if you crouched and pressed MP twice, it usually looks like it ought to combo and it does. In 3S, Ryu has almost no link combos outside of his EX mule kick or links into super (which are pretty obscure to the newcomer).
Combo-heavy games in my opinion exaggerate the skill gap between beginners and the rest because beginners require many more opportunities to deal dmg or mistakes from their opponent to win, while their defeat is usually only a combo and a half away. HnK and F/UC are good examples of a game that can be really fun and funny at a higher level of play, but are utterly frustrating to beginners against higher level opponents (even just slightly higher).
Input systems are an interesting deal in fighting games because how input is handled directly results in interesting edge cases. Cross-ups make reversals difficult because they can either strip you of your charge (think E.Honda) or make it difficult for you to properly input your DP. I'm not sure that I'd like to see that removed. Many doujin games have adopted the Asuka 120% "DP" motion of "d,d": it's not only incredibly quick, but it means that executing it properly is just a matter of timing it right so that your character doesn't DP in the wrong direction (which can still happen when trying to counter a cross-up).
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| Spoon 1890th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Fri 29 Jan 09:31
quote:
02UM
02UM or RTR is a game made to replace 2002.
2002 is very popular.
2002UM adds new stuff to a game that people already really like without utterly mangling it. Well, aside from that fact that somehow Kasumi has become a top-tier character.
You will inevitably see masses of Nameless and K'. King is somehow quite good in that game as well, but she is so frighteningly boring to watch in comparison to other characters...
How much you enjoy watching 02UM matches in general (gimmicks aside, like Seth pretending that he's a smash bros. character or Ramon run cancelling for a gazillion low kicks) is a function of how much you enjoy watching hitconfirm -> custom combo.
quote:
Then again, the presence of Basara there can easily shun any kind of 'balance' discussion.
Basara X is like Hokuto no Ken: the champion will not be the one who will have mastered the most deadly technique, but the one that will have discovered the most laughable bugs.
I think they should determine the winner not according to who won the match, but with a jury system that would vote on who raped the intended system with the most blatant irony.
See, this isn't totally true: HnK has two REALLY BAD bugs, being the Rei infinite DP and Shin becoming invincible (which, Shin being Shin, is hilarious), but HnK's bounce combos and extra star glitches and blah blah blah have actually manage to balance itself out. Having an infinite combo doesn't really mean anything if you can't land it, and even less so when everybody has one (or more!). The HnK videos from the TRF tournaments on nicovideo are some of the most entertaining match videos around.
Personally, I hope that every year at least one game is on the list that has preposterous combo damage; a "silly" game by the standards of the other games, but one that is far out there and provides crowd-pleasing combos and ridiculous comebacks.
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| sfried 469th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(6):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Fri 29 Jan 14:05
Speaking about input timing, is this more predominant in older games? Along with TvC, I've been trying to get into fighting games recently with the Orochi Saga, and noticed that getting "Wicked Chew" (  ) to "Masticate" ( ) requires a certain kind of ryhthm to execute properly, especially with "Wicked Chew" to "Oxidation" (  ). I'd have to say it is rather tricky to get down, and the payoff for mastering its execution is...quite low in the bigger picture of things (especially when it is damage that counts overall).
That said, I'm glad there are people who make videos like these to help explain some of the basic principles that is otherwise not made clear in the game (hyper jumping/hyper hopping).
This thread has become an interesting read on "system transparency" and how rulesets don't necessarily need to be complicated in order to be complex. I also think that giving the player too many options for an offence (a character with way to many specials, keeping up with different guages, various combo strings) also does scare off many newcomers since it does present a problem of making them look for proper situations with which to use each. Likewise, SFIV (or most SFs for that matter) manage to do a good job of balancing the number of specials vs. opportunities of attack vs. combo links rather well to keep the barrier low.
I think this is the reason why, that despite my yearn to learn more about KoF, I still feel utterly confused and useless unless someone teaches me more of the fundamentals. I see a ton of moves on Kyo alone and there are some I can hardly figure which fits into "place" for a specific senarios (such as   ).
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| Pollyanna 2844th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Fri 29 Jan 19:37
This makes me wanna play 02UM (or Basara X?) again. I think I've done everything I can do with KOF12, after all.
quote:
Speaking about input timing, is this more predominant in older games?
I feel like I've said this before (so, sorry if I'm repeating myself), but SNK has an awful history on home port controls. With the exception of Shen's add-ons in KOF12, I have never had a problem doing anything on an SNK game in the arcade. I have nightmares about trying to do even the simplest of things on their older ports. That might be a contributing factor.
A random anecdote:
My worst SNK home port experience involved the PS version of KOF98, which thankfully I did not purchase, but had the misfortune of playing once. The gentleman who owned the game wanted to show everyone how great he was at KOF and promised to "go easy on me" or it "wouldn't be fair."
I suspect he was better than me anyway, but I found the controls so horrifically disagreeable that the world will never know for sure. As I failed to do one QCF motion after another, he kindly lectured me on the simplest and most obvious things as if I hadn't been playing fighting games since 3rd grade.
It was like "let the big boys play KOF. You can go play with your dollies."
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| karasu99 281th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(9):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Sat 30 Jan 02:32
quote:
AOF on the SNES made me cry so many times, but I loved it anyway.
Learning how to play KOF98 on the PS and it's pad rendered me useless at playing with Arcade sticks...My hands never recovered..Should I sue SNK?
But seriously, I think that for many years SNK didn't know at all how to deal with console's controller input timing and programing.
I think, though, that eventually you can train yourself to work with almost any game's horrible controls. The first Garou, for example, had miserably done controls (which I should examine on the Battle Archive version, now that I think of it) which were made worse by the ridiculous state of the hardware at the laundromat/arcade where I first played it. But somehow my roommate and I managed to garner enough skill to perform most of the specials. Somehow.
I don't think going backward from that point works as well though-- perhaps that accounts for the 'KOF home port problem' described above, which I'm familiar with.
As for the PS/PS2/PS3 controllers... they're no Dreamcast controllers, that's for sure, but I've had a reasonable time using them over the years. I wish though that someone would produce some hybrid between small, wireless controls and huge, arcade-perfect stick controls. So, medium size, clicky stick, but fairly handheld and wireless. Oh, and it would be nice if it cost between $60 and $100 rather than between $150 and $250, but was still somehow made by someone other than MadCatz.
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| Grave 1293th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(10):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Sat 30 Jan 07:07
quote:
As for the PS/PS2/PS3 controllers... they're no Dreamcast controllers, that's for sure, but I've had a reasonable time using them over the years. I wish though that someone would produce some hybrid between small, wireless controls and huge, arcade-perfect stick controls. So, medium size, clicky stick, but fairly handheld and wireless. Oh, and it would be nice if it cost between $60 and $100 rather than between $150 and $250, but was still somehow made by someone other than MadCatz.
It kills me that we'll never know how the Mad Catz PS3 and 360 pads would have been if they included the NGCD/NGP-style thumbstick instead of mediocre d-pads. I'm okay with the PS3 controller, it's not ideal by any stretch of the imagination but it does what I need it to. I refuse to buy fighters on 360 until I get a controller with a good d-pad and I'm not buying a stick for it since all my fighting games are on PS3. This is a bad cycle! I hope the Razer Onza d-pad doesn't suck so I can buy one of those and stand to play fighting games with 360 friends as well.
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| Ishmael 3675th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Mon 1 Feb 06:15
quote:
Too bad P.N.03 is rather unloved. Shame, because I thought they were attempting a sort of on-foot shmup.
Is P.N. 03 any good? I haven't actually played it and I'm just judging from the mainstream reviews at the time which could have been criticizing it because it doesn't control like halo. Even RE4 did get some similar criticism but was mostly forgiven since it is a long series and that its a survivor horror game.
I think it's best to play it firsthand. Yes, it has similar RE4 "tanklike" controlls with a forwardfacing sidestep added, some auto targeting, and, um...dance moves. Depth mainly came from defeating as many enememies as fast as you could before the combo timer runs out, but other than that, the points are mostly used to buy items. Very simplistic in that regard.
The original concept showed Vanessa carrying a gun and shooting stuff in a similar fashion. I'm not quite sure what Mikami was aiming for in this project. Perhaps Vanguard is his answer to a refined P.N.03.
What I remember most about P.N.03 was the grid system it was based around. I haven't seen a game based around grids so much since Tomb Raider, but with P.N.03 it was an intentional decision rather than lackluster programming. Vanessa didn't so much move as shimmy from one grid to another. There was never any question of where Vanessa was going to end up when she moved once you had a mental map of how big the grids were. This made the game interesting since you were always keeping track of the grids as well as trying to target the enemies in the correct order to keep your combo going. It also drained the game of a bit of tension since the safe and bad areas of the screen were so well delineated.
Take all that and add it to a pulsating soundtrack, a Stanley Kubrick visual aesthetic, and a name that was an unpronounceable mouthful and you have one oddball of a game. Now I almost wish this new game would run with what P.N.03 was doing just to see if they could come up with something that clicked a little better.
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| Pollyanna 2845th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Latest random thread" , posted Tue 2 Feb 15:37
quote:
And yes, as stupid as it sounds, the music is licenses separately in things imported overseas. That's why you have stuff like the Scramble City OVA included in the Transformers The Movie DVD as an extra with no audio track.
CAN be licensed separately and IS licensed separately are two different things. These issues do come up at times, and it is plausible that some jackass was holding Capcom up on one or two songs and they decided to scrap the entire soundtrack as a result, but that's as much as I'm willing to believe.
The catch here is that I think they're lying about the complex web of licensing. Or rather, fiercely exaggerating. If they really had such an intense sea of rights to swim through, don't you think that would be reflected in the credits?
I was told, from someone involved in the project that Hakushon Daimaou was removed due to "racial insensitivity" and that it was no coincidence that he was the only character that didn't make it. As a result, I'm inclined to disbelieve any call of "licensing issues".
I realize that I'm hard to trust in this matter, especially when it's my word against the PRODUCER OF THE GAME. If I say "I've dealt with Japanese licensors before" or "I know someone who worked on the project" I could be lying, and who could say? But like so many game companies who tell you one thing one week and something completely different the next, I don't believe Capcom on this at all. I'm not faulting them for anything, or calling foul, but I do believe they're being "diplomatically dishonest", just like every company I've ever worked for.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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"........." , posted Wed 30 Dec 17:23
Ono and the Fanboy spirit.
"Conan O'brien" , posted Sun 24 Jan 16:38
... and 
