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| karasu99
226th Post
 
Frequent Customer
    
|  "Re(3):Bayonetta - FIRST CLIMAX thread" , posted Sat 10 Oct 03:02
quote:
The last game I can remember that tried the trick of non-stop boss battles was the unplayable Hippa Linda/Stretch Panic. After suffering through that trite trinket from Treasure I'm glad that games have not gone down that particular design route.
There's a certain logical progression in these kinds of hack and slash games toward a bosses-only game-- After all, why not showcase a bunch of carefully designed bosses rather than wave after wave of identical flunkies. The danger is when bosses start to be recycled, which is what I'd worry about with Bayonetta-- all the DMC games recycle bosses, which kindof sucked.
I'm a little interested in Bayonetta. Even though the aesthetic is a bit silly for my taste, the over the top part might be enough to convince me to try it.
Oh, and Ishmael, I have to say that I really loved Stretch Panic, especially the orbiting satellite boss. I wish that Treasure had waited until PS3 to release it, since the modeling was somewhat substandard, but other than that, I liked it. Is it that, being a Treasure game, you expected it to be incredible, and found it to be merely good, or did you really think it was awful?
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| Ishmael 3591th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
     
| "Re(4):Bayonetta - FIRST CLIMAX thread" , posted Sat 10 Oct 09:01
quote:
There's a certain logical progression in these kinds of hack and slash games toward a bosses-only game-- After all, why not showcase a bunch of carefully designed bosses rather than wave after wave of identical flunkies. The danger is when bosses start to be recycled, which is what I'd worry about with Bayonetta-- all the DMC games recycle bosses, which kindof sucked.
I'm a little interested in Bayonetta. Even though the aesthetic is a bit silly for my taste, the over the top part might be enough to convince me to try it.
Oh, and Ishmael, I have to say that I really loved Stretch Panic, especially the orbiting satellite boss. I wish that Treasure had waited until PS3 to release it, since the modeling was somewhat substandard, but other than that, I liked it. Is it that, being a Treasure game, you expected it to be incredible, and found it to be merely good, or did you really think it was awful?
Most boss fights walk that fine line between the satisfaction of learning and exploiting the bosses weaknesses and finding that one hole in their AI and cheesing them to death. For me the boss battles in Stretch Panic felt like they had fallen on the wrong side of that line. Since about the only other thing besides the boss fights in the game was the tacky hubworld there was very little in Stretch Panic to pull me in. Boss-rush games such as Shadow of the Colossus can be great fun but Stretch Panic just wasn't doing it for me. That, and since Maou was trying earlier to sidetrack the discussion with a digression into ornithology I thought I would start the Treasure backlash early. 
Now that I think about it I feel those lowly cannon fodder guys do often serve a purpose. In most games of this ilk such as DMC, NG and so on the grunts can be disposed of in all manner of different ways. While there are tactics that work better than others on the various goons there is also room for the player to experiment and develop an understanding of the move list and game engine. What seperates the bosses from the waves of enemies who only live to die by your hand is not their larger life bars or their increased damage, it's that you often can't use the strategies you used on their underlings. Being forced to use your now familiar moves in new ways is what I feel makes for a good boss fight. I'm just rambling here but now that I've written that all out I can appreciate the role the nameless peons play in a game; thanks to those poor saps I can better appreicate the complexity of the combat.
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| NARUTO 3713th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Bayonetta - FIRST CLIMAX thread" , posted Mon 12 Oct 17:47
Tried the demo, and damn this game sucks!! Never see a piece of trash like this for ages. Technicaly the game is already outdated by most of the game already released, like batman AA, uncharted or mass effect and GEOW2... Modélisation is poor and textures are really bad.
The héroine is the stupidest girl ever... She's ugly with her stupid haircut, and gross beyond imagination. I thinked that DOA or ninja gaiden would ruins the "woman images" but this game is like soft porn...
The ennemey design is grotesque and lame at a climax point, most of the time you can't even tell what they are or what they supposed to be, I mean I saw some children clay stuff that looks millions times better.
And as for the game it's already done, re-done, and done million times, to be really original. After a lame, madworld, and now this I don't think that platinium games will live longer than clover did...
Can't they try doing something clever and good for once? stop making stupid "artistic-gore-sexy-wanabee" stuff like this and try making a "real" game.
Oh, the music is great, the only good thing in this game.
Fortes fortuna juvat...
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| Tai-Pan 386th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(6):Bayonetta - FIRST CLIMAX thread" , posted Mon 12 Oct 23:44
quote:
Tried the demo, and damn this game sucks!! Never see a piece of trash like this for ages. Technicaly the game is already outdated by most of the game already released, like batman AA, uncharted or mass effect and GEOW2... Modélisation is poor and textures are really bad.
I tried it yesterday. And I loved it.
At first I was turned off by the over the top presentation, but then I started to love it. It's so ridiculous it ends up being awesome.
The graphics are good, not great, but pretty good overall. I think the developers didn't have the resources/expertize to port it to the PS3 so they gave it to Sega, and they could have done better.
But I liked the style of the game. And I liked the girl, even if her head is too small and she is ridiculous, she is still awesome. I LIKE this game.
Japanese developers are way behind western studios graphic wise. However, I don't give a shi% about 100000000000 polygon bold american marines.
"Those who follow the path of a warrior must be ready to die in order to stand for one's convictions live for one's convictions die for one's convictions"
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| nobinobita 633th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(9):Bayonetta - FIRST CLIMAX thread" , posted Tue 13 Oct 05:19:
quote:
Now you're making me sad. Devising and applying technology to solve unique problems is extremely interesting! One of the wonderful things about video games is that there's an almost continuous stream of new and interesting problems to try tackling, and at the same time, there's a continuous stream of new and interesting ways to tackle them. It's like some kind of MMA where enormous, sweating problems wrestle with hairy, stimulant-pumped minds in an unending gauntlet of pain-filled battles for submission.
Dangit, last thing I ever want to do is make anyone sad.
I should have said "technology is not a replacement for competent art design". And what I mean by that is many games are technologically impressive. They are very impressive feats of engineering, and it could be said that they are beautiful from the standpoint of technical accomplishment if you understand the feats of strength it took to get the games to perform as they do.
But this does not necessarily make the product visually appealing.
There are lots of games with really really impressive technology that just totally drop the ball with the visual execution. For instance, for some strange reason, many high profile developers keep churning out games where people have mute fish eyes (this is often because they set the reflectivity of the eyeball shader too high so its way too bright and everyone looks glassy eyed and scared all the time). This isn't a stylistic thing, it's just carelessness.
The technology is there, but the comprehension isn't always there.
It's like raising a nice fat healthy cow, butchering it for its tender marbled meat then overcooking it.
I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative. I have great admiration for good programmers. They're rare and awesome people. Good people. I just get upset when I have to abide by bad art decisions. It's like an insult to all the herculean effort of good programming (and an insult to human dignity dammit!).
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Tue 13 Oct 05:46] |
| nobinobita 633th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(10):Bayonetta - FIRST CLIMAX thread" , posted Tue 13 Oct 05:40:
quote:
As for Bayonetta, I still haven't played it yet. But apart from it looking very nice and having some nice set pieces, I'm still wondering how it's supposed to be such a big revolution from the DMC formula (I remember one of the producers saying something to that effect). Anybody who has played it care to speculate on that?
I've been wondering the same thing. After seeing the hype (and anti-hype) presented here in this thread, I decided to go and check out some vids. It just looks like another DMC or GoW to me (and in some aspects, less interesting than the two aforementioned games). Apart from the main character being hot and having a fantastic ass, what is so special about this game compared to others of the same genre?
The game's just fun to pick up and play and it controls very well. It's got way better controls than most other games. The action is fast and intuitive and there's alot of freedom to how you play. If you like guns, you can fight with guns. If you like swords you can switch to those. You can also pick up enemy weapons for a period (much like Final Fight and other brawlers hooray) and the QTE finishing moves are quick and fun to watch. Also the dodging system works well and doesn't break up the action. You can aggressively attack opponents, but they don't stand back and mutely take it up the wazoo, they will hit you back eventually, even if you're comboing them. Because of this you have to read their movements and hit the dodge at the right time, but the dodge is more like a parry. It doesn't pull you out of the action, if you pull it off successfully it takes you back into the action even more aggressively since you will initiate witch time (bullet time).
It's a nice risk vs reward system. It's way better than say, Wet, where you can spend the whole game jumping in slow motion with no punishment (well, other than the game not being fun).
The game has no gimmicks. It's not "innovative", but it is fun and solid and has way more gameplay than most other new releases.
Also, the animation is quite good : D
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Tue 13 Oct 05:41] |
| Pollyanna 2786th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Bayonetta - FIRST CLIMAX thread" , posted Tue 13 Oct 09:22
Nobi, as he often does, beat me to what I was gonna say. I will second the point that the dodging system is especially well-integrated. It's a huge improvement over the "beating a dead horse" system in DMC. It really does make a tremendous difference. I don't know if the game is "innovative", but assuming they keep up the pace from the demo, it is "blatantly superior".
In terms of graphics, I think the game looks bad in stills, but it has a very solid, well-balanced presentation. Some games will have brilliant renders or brilliant textures or backgrounds or whatever, but an unbalanced presentation, because the other aspects don't stack up as nicely. I think a number of American games have suffered from this for a long time, especially in the frame-rate department. Bayonetta doesn't aim for the top in any particular category, but it all comes together flawlessly, in my opinion.
Also, briefly...
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Alien Soldier
YES.
And...off topic...
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The héroine is the stupidest girl ever... She's ugly with her stupid haircut, and gross beyond imagination. I thinked that DOA or ninja gaiden would ruins the "woman images" but this game is like soft porn...
Although I'm sure Bayonetta's overt sexuality will be offensive to some (as will her haircut, evidently), I would consider the characters in DOA much worse. At first, I felt like DOA was just a 3D fighter with sexy girls (a good thing), but now I feel like the characters have all been reduced to nothing but wish fulfillment. DOAX2 was especially upsetting in this respect because all of the characters fit into a "safe zone". They were all the perfect blend of sassy and submissive, careful not to display any personality traits strong enough to be unappealing. I mean...the game was too stupid to be offensive (to me at least), but it made all the characters unenjoyable to me, and left a bad taste in my mouth.
Bayonetta on the other hand, is a crazy, ridiculous, exaggeration...a female Dante. Everything about her is powerful...including her sexuality. I found her a little embarrassing at first (and decidedly not sexy), but now that I'm "in on the joke" a little better, I think she's really fun.
I can't imagine her being anyone's dream woman, really. She's obviously no good to settle down with, and in a wild night of sex, I would be afraid she would bite your penis off with a giant hair dragon...or something.
But I'm no expert in women's studies. I'm just an old guy with panties on his head pretending to be a girl on the internet.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Iggy 8996th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Bayonetta - FIRST CLIMAX thread" , posted Tue 13 Oct 19:18
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"I should've been a pole dancer".
These guys understand everything: Godhand+DMC with Shanon as the main character.
I really like the fact they managed to introduce the constant focus of Godhand's dodgings into the DMC formula.
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Bayonetta doesn't aim for the top in any particular category, but it all comes together flawlessly, in my opinion.
In a game so fast with a spastic camera and special effects constantly covering everything, it is completely useless to invest trillions polygons into any of the models. I really think the choice here, from a gameplay point of view, is much smarter than GoW, for example (well, GoW is more calm, so it may not apply as well, but you see my point).
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Bayonetta on the other hand, is a crazy, ridiculous, exaggeration...a female Dante. Everything about her is powerful...including her sexuality. I found her a little embarrassing at first (and decidedly not sexy), but now that I'm "in on the joke" a little better, I think she's really fun.
To me, Bayonetta is to videogames what La Camilla from Army of Lovers was in the early 90s. She's the incarnation of the most glorious camp. Gay men will love her, and a lot of straight men will find her repulsive, menacing or frightening because, even though she would have all the body arguments of a regular babe, she would have the exact opposite attitude. And that's what makes her awesome. I mean, you'd be extremely lucky if La Camilla settled down to only bite your penis off.
I hope the boring male character will end up being her Jean-Pierre.
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I can't imagine her being anyone's dream woman, really.
Oh, stop gossiping like that. Kamiya just said a few days ago "I may be bald, but I'm not gay".
Though I have no idea why he would feel the need to address this interrogation, really, muohoho.
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| karasu99
241th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(6):Re(10):Bayonetta - Gayest game of 2009?" , posted Thu 12 Nov 02:50
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What's the beef with Bayonnetta's head proportions? Aren't japanese folk supposed to like tiny heads? I dunno, man, her head is awfully small. I mean, there's the proportional ideal of 八頭身 (hattoushin) where your body is theoretically the height of eight of your head lengths, and I think Bayonetta's looking more like 12 or 15. So small. It's like Magna Carta all the time.
I'm with you, my friend. I guess I really hadn't paid attention, but now that I have-- wow! Her proportions are WAY off.
That said, this is a really great and fun looking game. Can't wait for the US release, but I think I'll go for the X360 version for once, given all the reported problems with the PS3 one.
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| nobinobita 649th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(7):Re(10):Bayonetta - Gayest game of 2009?" , posted Fri 13 Nov 05:34
quote:
What's the beef with Bayonnetta's head proportions? Aren't japanese folk supposed to like tiny heads? I dunno, man, her head is awfully small. I mean, there's the proportional ideal of 八頭身 (hattoushin) where your body is theoretically the height of eight of your head lengths, and I think Bayonetta's looking more like 12 or 15. So small. It's like Magna Carta all the time.
I'm with you, my friend. I guess I really hadn't paid attention, but now that I have-- wow! Her proportions are WAY off.
That said, this is a really great and fun looking game. Can't wait for the US release, but I think I'll go for the X360 version for once, given all the reported problems with the PS3 one.
The Cafe has a strange way of seeping deep into my subconscious. My mind has been drifting to Bayonetta all week, especially after reading Iggy's insights into how Bayonetta will appeal more to a gay audience than a mainstream audience.
I think it's very interesting that the people who have been calling the game pandering and tiresome in concept are also the same people who complain that Bayonetta looks weird and isn't hot enough (not referring to anyone here so much as comments from games journalists and internet posters elsewhere). I think the character of Bayonetta is the opposite of pandering, she is really damn weird and unique and clearly not made to adhere to mainstream tastes.
Bayonetta is a kind of character that is almost non-existent in videogames: a strong, confident, cocky, aggressive woman. Her blatant sexuality is for her own amusement, not the amusement of others. She is not the typical mainstream male fantasy. She does not have a look you would typically see in Maxim or a body wash commercial. She is a physically imposing amazon, a tower of strength. Her build is almost certainly based on fashion illustrations, but her closest real life analog would be an olympic caliber athlete, like a pro volley ball player, diver or high jumper (women with strong legs and incredible core strength). Unlike most game characters, Bayonetta was designed by a woman, Mari Shimazaki, who has embued the character with a genuinely feminine presence that goes far deeper than the typical male wish fulfillment designs out there.
I think it really speaks to the strength of her design that she is so appealing to a gay audience. From what I can gather, the most essential quality of a gay icon is unshakable self confidence. I imagine this is because a healthy self esteem is hard to come by when most mainstream society disapproves of such a basic, quintessential, unchangeable part of your identity. Most gay people I know grew up with alot of secret fear and anxiety which had to be overcome later in life. This experience is easily related to the character of Bayonetta, who is a witch who was both shunned by mainstream society as well as her own culture. Since birth she has been told that her existence is an aberration. But rather than accepting fate, she has fought it and come out as a strong, aggressive individual; what many people would call "flamboyant." Given the obstacles she had to overcome, her flamboyance makes alot of sense to me. As does the flamboyance of some of my gay friends. I know that's kind of backwards... but I'd just never really given this sort of thing much thought, so I think it's pretty neat that Bayonetta has helped me understand some of my real life friends better.
I have alot of respect for Platinum Games. So far, all their games have been fiercely individualistic. I really hope Bayonetta does well. I really hope a wide audience can see that there's something special about it, rather than marginalize it as just another cheap, pandering, sexy-action-babe game. At the very least, I hope that gamers who are looking for something unique and more substantial will look past the superficially marketable qualities of the game and see the real heart that lies underneath.
And at the very veryyyy least, I hope people don't pass on the game because the lead character's head is small. There are many game characters out there with weird physical defects. The Batman from Arkham Aslyum has short little t-rex arms. That guy from Uncharted as an impish, Tom Cruise body. Everyone in Bioshock, including the women and children have club hands and tube limbs. Everyone in Oblivion is unbelievably hideous without exception. These deformations haven't stopped those games from becoming best sellers, so I'm hoping the conscious decision to make Bayonetta intimidatingly statuesque will not hurt its sales either.
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| Pollyanna 2800th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Re(10):Bayonetta - Gayest game of 2009?" , posted Wed 25 Nov 03:01
Japan totally loves tiny heads. Look at that Captain Tsubasa manga:
http://manga.watchanimeon.com/captain_tsubasa_-_golden-23/chapter-19/07/
THAT is a tiny head.
Bayonetta is, in my opinion, the best game of its kind and more than deserving of the perfect score it got in Famitsu. Or maybe I should say actually deserving? Well, what I'm getting at is that it's no coincidence. The amount of love and effort that went into the game is amazing. There's so much to see, so much to do and so many hidden little treasures that it's an endless delight to play.
I find that the difficulty is a bit...odd, though. If you continue and use items, the game is fairly easy (on normal)...too easy, I guess. But the gap between a good score performance and a bad score performance is surprisingly small. For example, if you use as few as 2 items and continue twice on a level, you're very likely to get the worst rank possible.
In a different game, I would probably complain about this, but Bayonetta has so much to offer outside of the "just finish the game to finish the game" model, that I find myself as interested in my performance as with progressing. Every level leaves me feeling like "I can't wait to do that again!"
I don't even know what I'm saying anymore, so let me summarize:
Bayonetta is awesome and seems to cater itself to repeat play.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| EternalNewbie
206th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(10):Re(10):Bayonetta - Gayest game of 2009" , posted Sat 28 Nov 08:12
quote:
Bayonetta is, in my opinion, the best game of its kind and more than deserving of the perfect score it got in Famitsu. Or maybe I should say actually deserving? Well, what I'm getting at is that it's no coincidence. The amount of love and effort that went into the game is amazing. There's so much to see, so much to do and so many hidden little treasures that it's an endless delight to play.
I find that the difficulty is a bit...odd, though. If you continue and use items, the game is fairly easy (on normal)...too easy, I guess. But the gap between a good score performance and a bad score performance is surprisingly small. For example, if you use as few as 2 items and continue twice on a level, you're very likely to get the worst rank possible.
In a different game, I would probably complain about this, but Bayonetta has so much to offer outside of the "just finish the game to finish the game" model, that I find myself as interested in my performance as with progressing. Every level leaves me feeling like "I can't wait to do that again!"
I don't even know what I'm saying anymore, so let me summarize:
Bayonetta is awesome and seems to cater itself to repeat play.
Agreed. Having played through the game already, I must say that overall it was quite an enjoyable experience. The game does punish the hell out of you for using items and continues, but replaying the levels is enjoyable and it is fairly easy to learn from your mistakes and correct yourself on subsequent plays. The music is enjoyable, boss battles are quite fun, being able to try different weapon setups is also appealing (so far, claws on feet with a whip is my favorite), and really the game just provides an overall good time. It's one of those games that Platinum / Clover love really just shines through on.
Also, didn't think about the gay icon stuff before, but after reading it; it makes quite a bit sense. I have quite a few male friends who are turned off by the main character, and something felt different about her but I couldn't put my finger on it myself. I just figured it was the initial slight embarrassing factor of playing a character with so much over the top sexuality that comes off as a bit like soft core porn. But, regardless of what or why, overall I enjoyed her as a character. Just seems like a fun gal.
If I had to give one complaint about the game, it would probably be how tiresome some of the button mashing gets on torture attacks and certain boss finishing moments. Though even then, they implemented it fairly tasteful and it was always balancing that fine line of me getting really annoyed with them and enjoying them as a way to simulate beating the everliving crap out of angels.
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| Pollyanna 2805th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Bayonetta - Gayest game o" , posted Sat 28 Nov 08:50:
Glad to see someone else here played (and enjoyed) the game. It really is one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had...and the first game where I started over on "hard" immediately after winning it. There's just too much to experience in one playthrough. It left me hungry for more (and had plenty more to offer).
Yesterday, someone asked me what I liked best about the game ("everything" was not an option). At first I said that I liked how the battle system balanced offense and defense, but after I thought about it for a moment, I found that the game's greatest point is that it's perfect.
Of course, there's no true "perfection" and that's subjective anyway, but what I mean is that it doesn't have any weak points. It's full of ideas and all of its ideas are executed fully and properly. Nothing about the game falls short and nothing about it says "we tried this, but it didn't work" or "I didn't get to do everything I wanted with the game" or "we didn't have the budget to do this".
quote:
If I had to give one complaint about the game, it would probably be how tiresome some of the button mashing gets on torture attacks and certain boss finishing moments. Though even then, they implemented it fairly tasteful and it was always balancing that fine line of me getting really annoyed with them and enjoying them as a way to simulate beating the everliving crap out of angels.
I think if they had penalized you for not jamming on the buttons like a madman, then it would have been a problem. As it is, if I got tired of it, I could just jam less enthusiastically and maybe get a few less points.
My complaint is that the (lengthy) shooting and driving levels were not divided into their own chapters. This would be better both for people who want to play them and for people who don't. It's a frustration to me that I have to go through the entire shooting "game" to relive my favorite boss fight.
Edit:
I didn't know you could put the claws on your feet! I'll have to give it a try. I can't see myself replacing the iceskates or rocket launchers, though.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Sat 28 Nov 08:53] |
| Pollyanna 2805th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):My $0.02 Re: Bayonetta [Opinion Time!!!" , posted Mon 30 Nov 04:07
quote:
To begin, I want to put things into context: I haven't played the demo, but I have watched some footage and saw some screenshots. Having said that, here's why I'm interested in the game.
In my mind, Bayonetta is a game that looks and sounds good, but doesn't take itself seriously. It's the video game equivalent of movies like Shawn of the Dead or Hot Fuzz or Black Dynamite (which I also haven't seen but have seen lots of trailers). There aren't many games in this genre, but I can name two: God Hand and No More Heroes. In a world with more serious games in the genre (like Devil May Cry), there are too few of the ones that don't take themselves seriously--who have outlandish characters and over-the-top gameplay and insane storylines.
That's what Bayonetta is selling me. And why I'm eagerly waiting to play it.
Though, it still needs a gorilla in a lucha libre mask...complete with the proper BGM.
I'm really glad to hear this. So many people who don't like the game (who haven't played it) don't seem to understand that it's supposed to be funny. It is simultaneously one of the most epic and most hilarious games I've played. Hurling an enemy the size of a house over your shoulder is dramatic, but it's also ridiculous. I spent the entire game saying "how are they going to top this?" after each successive "this is the coolest thing ever" event.
Of course, that might not be what everyone wants and I admit, as a huge God Hand fan, I'm a bit biased. Speaking of which, although you won't find any "gorillas", a few God Hand references sneaked in all the same.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Iggy 9023th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):Bayonetta - FIRST CLIMAX thread" , posted Mon 14 Dec 21:14
OK, so, I didn't take the time to say how much I adore this game and how everything except the mini games and the loadings on PS3 are perfectly perfect and awesomely awesome. The game is so rich in references (Viewtiful Joe of course, but also Ôkami, DMC, and so many other things, up to Indiana Jones) that you almost always have something to look at and laugh to, and with.
Anyhow.
If unlocking the latest bits of bonuses of the game is too difficult for you (and I mean "finish all the levels with a Platinum ranking or more" difficult, so there's no shame to be had), I just was made aware of this semi-cheat feature:
Massive spoiler ahead, of course.
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"Re(3):My $0.02 Re: Bayonetta [Opinion Time!!!" , posted Mon 30 Nov 08:36
"Re(6):My $0.02 Re: Bayonetta [Opinion Time!!!" , posted Wed 2 Dec 07:51
