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| Maou 1818th Post
 
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
  
    
    
    
    
|  "Let's talk about Street Fighter III versions" , posted Wed 30 Sep 23:49
Yeah, SSF IV has its own thread now, but all it's done is remind me of my regrets that SF III sort of passed me by until it was basically too late (like: when the PS2 version of Third Strike came out). I love the game, even though I'm no good at parrying because my friends and I didn't have the time to hone our skills like we did with the Zero series in high school on our lowly 32-bit systems.
Anyway, I just got to thinking about the different versions of SF III: I own 3S and have only played the original VERY briefly in the arcade. May not even have ever seen 2nd Impact. This wicked funky theme Ryu has for 2nd Impact has made me believe I should revisit the series, clamor for a SF III Collection like the recent Zero collection, and learn about the other versions. I know we've talked about the other SF III's briefly in another thread once, but I'd love to hear the values of each version, even though 3S is the favored one, of course.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Spoon 1817th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(4):Let's talk about Street Fighter III ver" , posted Thu 1 Oct 11:11
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Capcom needs to do an SF3 Remix version that allows you to have the 3S cast/gameplay but with NG's menus/stages/etc.
This is SO true that it hurts... I almost cry tears of blood everytime I think about the subject!!
I assume that thinking this way is common sense and a widespread opinion among fans (at least those fans who tried the three installments of the saga), at least judging by my personal experience and my friends' testimonies.
What I cannot understand is why is taking so long to revamp/compile the games, specially after doing so with other franchises such as "Power Stone" or "Vampire Chronicles"...
I'm not sure why you'd want some of NG's interface. The garish fonts, the bland "who's next" display in single player, the ugly super art selection boxes, the large portraits that are so inferior to 3S's, the fullscreen flash that happens on any parry, the the silly-looking storm background at the prefight (which really didn't match anything in the game)... I was a fan of the crazy animated background during super for games like the Vs. series ones, but the one in pre-3S just doesn't communicate anything to me; it's a distorting background that doesn't do anything to enhance my sense of how awesome or powerful the super is.
The pre-3S backgrounds were nice, but when I think of anything else I wind up thinking about things like Urien's face in his large portrait in 2I.
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| Freeter 4474th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
 
| "Re(5):Let's talk about Street Fighter III ver" , posted Thu 1 Oct 13:39
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I'm not sure why you'd want some of NG's interface. The garish fonts, the bland "who's next" display in single player, the ugly super art selection boxes, the large portraits that are so inferior to 3S's, the fullscreen flash that happens on any parry, the the silly-looking storm background at the prefight (which really didn't match anything in the game)... I was a fan of the crazy animated background during super for games like the Vs. series ones, but the one in pre-3S just doesn't communicate anything to me; it's a distorting background that doesn't do anything to enhance my sense of how awesome or powerful the super is.
The pre-3S backgrounds were nice, but when I think of anything else I wind up thinking about things like Urien's face in his large portrait in 2I.
Because NG's look as a whole is much more vibrant and dynamic than both 2I and 3S. The backgrounds are lively and have a true sense of depth, unlike most fighting game backgrounds that are just flat and dull. The stage intros truly show off the impressive scope of these fields, unlike in 3S where they don't even bother.
The large portraits aren't refined like 3S's, but they emit a 'raw' feeling with the bold lines and sharper edges. It makes the characters look like real fighters ready to get their hands dirty instead of just posing for a photo op.
I agree about the super bg in NG being ugly, but that can easily be shut off so no complaints there.
The 'storm' pre-fight screen makes sense with the presentation given that Gill was the final boss. It's easily skippable, so if it wasn't your cup of tea, so be it. I thought the lightning effect made for a good jolt to the senses to get you psyched for the battle.
Maybe it's just the former art student in me talking, but even as a casual observer, I was first exposed to 3S before the other games, and when I saw NG afterwards I still thought it looked better even from a distance. That's just me though.
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| Ishmael 3581th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Let's talk about Street Fighter III ver" , posted Fri 2 Oct 01:31
While NG felt incomplete in its gameplay I loved the look of the thing. As Iggy noted the backgrounds were charming and organic. They also kept alive Capcom's tradition of sticking animals into the fighting stages. Whether it was an alley cat watching over Alex's stage or monkeys washing a fat man there was no shortage of life to those scenes.
Also of note is that SF3 came out during an age of endless tag matches, partner summoning and other gimmickry. It was so refreshing at the time to be able to play a game where it was simply two characters fighting it out and at no point could you hit a button to make a choppy animated Captain America hop out of nowhere or fill the screen with flying lasers bolts. While 2I fixed a lot of the gameplay issues I had with SF3 I wasn't as fond of its more garish presentation.
I do, however, think that Street Fighter 3: 2nd Impact Giant Attack is one of the greatest game names ever.
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I wonder if I've made a horrible mistake in even mentioning the portraits, because it shifts the discussion to something about art assets in the game as opposed to strictly interface issues/elements... then again, on further thought I'm not really sure how to divide those things without sounding hopelessly arbitrary.
Still, if the answer to "these things seem ugly/annoying" is "you can skip them", that doesn't make it sound like it's altogether better.
Actually, I think that discussing the artistic style of a game is perfectly appropriate. Gameplay, art, and other elements all come together to make a game and each piece is, in its own way, as important as the other.
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| Pollyanna 2775th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Let's talk about Street Fighter" , posted Sat 3 Oct 07:56
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Actually I take this as "the guts to reinvent yourself" as far as a series goes. (This topic has popped up here a lot).
Yes.
And...
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She's not saying KOF XII is perfect game. Eventhough its lackluster game, sprites that reflects personality, art choice, backgrounds. Those are giving us the hints what will coming to future KOF games. I think she means that.
Btw KOF XII lacks a lot of things, (most unbelieveably brain freezing, is it too hard to add picture endings or "thanks for playing" pics?)It still is a beautiful game if you have someone around to play together.
Yes as well.
KOF XI has gorgeous, stylized, well animated sprites and backgrounds... (most of)the characters show so a tremendous amount of personality through their movements alone. The cinemas, although lacking in characters we actually want to see, look stylish and crisp.
It's another SF3: simultaneously impressive and underwhelming, but certainly holding a lot of potential.
Also, Kofoguz's addition of :"If you have someone around to play" is important. I'm having an absolute blast with the game playing with friends. The online makes me want to murder someone, and I've only gone through arcade mode 3 times, but I'm still enjoying the game so much that I've hardly touched any other fighters since I got it.
I mean, we're comparing to SF3 here, which is...highly coveted for it's single player experience or something?
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Toxico 4781th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(5):Re(10):Let's talk about Street Fighter" , posted Sat 3 Oct 10:49
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You guys say this as if KoF reinvents itself more than other fighters. In fact, I've always felt that KoF doesn't reinvent itself enough. XII is sort of a reinvention, but doesn't even add a single new character and is just as much about being old school as being something "new".
Hell, I could look at just SNK games and see other series that have reinvented themselves more often and to a greater extent (such as the Fatal Fury series).
That's exactly the point (but you are not interpreting it correctly), when fighting games where more in vogue; it wasn't that weird seeing games trying extreme make overs in other to keep the appeal open (for example; in the AoF series none of the games inherits graphics from the previous one, they where always redrawn in order to modify slightly the style). It came, a point in industry where companies became too conservative and "make overs" where pretty much done for (don't make me count the amount of games where Morringan sprite or Sol sprite has been pasted). Prior to XII the game KoF was the epitome of..... let's say.... "keeping the characters coherent with the previous game.
When people where pretty much nominating KoF as a green peace representative SNK went out of it's way, and tried to re - inject life to the series once and for all. That's something that we haven't seen in a while and we won't see in a while; it gave the game a whole knew image (not only literally but direction wise as well).
Heck, if it wasn't for sega sammy thing; it' sure that Blaz blue would have been a guilty gear last name instead of a new game. It was a forced evolution, not a willing one
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
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| Spoon 1820th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(6):Re(10):Let's talk about Street Fighter" , posted Sat 3 Oct 11:21
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You guys say this as if KoF reinvents itself more than other fighters. In fact, I've always felt that KoF doesn't reinvent itself enough. XII is sort of a reinvention, but doesn't even add a single new character and is just as much about being old school as being something "new".
Hell, I could look at just SNK games and see other series that have reinvented themselves more often and to a greater extent (such as the Fatal Fury series).
That's exactly the point (but you are not interpreting it correctly), when fighting games where more in vogue; it wasn't that weird seeing games trying extreme make overs in other to keep the appeal open (for example; in the AoF series none of the games inherits graphics from the previous one, they where always redrawn in order to modify slightly the style). It came, a point in industry where companies became too conservative and "make overs" where pretty much done for (don't make me count the amount of games where Morringan sprite or Sol sprite has been pasted). Prior to XII the game KoF was the epitome of..... let's say.... "keeping the characters coherent with the previous game.
When people where pretty much nominating KoF as a green peace representative SNK went out of it's way, and tried to re - inject life to the series once and for all. That's something that we haven't seen in a while and we won't see in a while; it gave the game a whole knew image (not only literally but direction wise as well).
Heck, if it wasn't for sega sammy thing; it' sure that Blaz blue would have been a guilty gear last name instead of a new game. It was a forced evolution, not a willing one
I'm frankly kind of frightened at the prospect of KOF being the vanguard of change, for many of the reasons mentioned here. Sure every year KOF gave us a different super gauge, but it also gave us things like 13 years of the same Iori sprite.
SF2 might be infamous for its endless slight variations, but back in the day, Capcom was at the forefront of endless and creative new fighting games. Here at mmcafe we have a tendency to discuss SF2, SF3, and Vampire somewhat excessively, but I remember a time when arguing whether Capcom or SNK made better fighting games could be done without mentioning KOF or SF at all. I remember the days when Samurai Shodown ruled, until Cyberbots came and stole my heart, whose dominion was then soon contested by Marvel Super Heroes. Actually, I remember mostly being a Capcom fan, with the main exception being Samurai Shodown.
What strikes me as kind of interesting is that fighting games lately have taken deliberate steps, sometimes backwards-facing ones, to ingratiate themselves with a new generation of fans. How many other types of games have had to do that? FPS and third-person shooting games have become continuously more feature-packed and complex from the days of Wolfenstein and Ultima Underworld. Among the various big hits, arguably Team Fortress 2 has shown some of the simplifying mentality (though it has also brought in a slew of thoughtful features), and sure, FPS games haven't always made steps that seemed to make it smarter (I always recall Looking Glass Studios and how long it took for other developers to catch up to the things that they did in terms of single player). But still, we definitely don't see a prevailing sentiment of "hey, we need to bring the Doom 1 crowd back with Doom 1 style gameplay and Doom 1 levels of feature simplicity".
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| Maou 1825th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(7):Re(10):Let's talk about Street Fighter" , posted Sat 3 Oct 11:35:
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But still, we definitely don't see a prevailing sentiment of "hey, we need to bring the Doom 1 crowd back with Doom 1 style gameplay and Doom 1 levels of feature simplicity".
Spoon, I like your points. To bring this sorta back to SF III again: even if I don't like SF IV very much in terms of it not being hand-drawn and its over-familiar cast, the game surprised me in not seeming particularly simplified gameplay-wise, at least in comparison to anything other than the hyper-technical Third Strike. In between the dashes, half-surge dash moves, connecting supers from regulars, and so forth, it seemed like a surprisingly technical game for one that seemed to want to bring back the casual SF crowd with all the old characters. I do hate the lack of air-blocking, but that's about all that seemed simplified to me.
edit: And to bring it further back to SF III, I hereby present an amateur theory from a 3S-only player who's now heard two great 2I tunes: the second of three in a SF series always has the more groovy, mellow, funky tunes than the more noisy third installment, even if the third installment is 'better' in terms of gameplay. Which is to say, SFZero 2 also has the fun, peppy electronic or jazz pieces that are in pretty stark contrast with the (quite fun) bombast of SFZero 3's soundtrack.
double-edit: I hereby confirm my own 'theory' now that I've heard Ibuki's 2I tune, which is the spiritual successor to Sakura's theme in SFZero 2 (in terms of style, not melody), before both schoolgirls got peppier versions in their respective sequels.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sat 3 Oct 12:08] |
| Maese 531th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(8):Re(10):Let's talk about Street Fighter" , posted Sat 3 Oct 13:18:
I'm late to the party, so pretty much everyhing I wanted to say it's been already said. But since I have a penchant for monologues, here I go anyway.
I have a soft spot for 1st and, specially, 2nd Impact. The artwork, music, backgrounds, the general paraphernalia surrounding the game always struck me as way superior to the later 3rd Strike. I played them on Dreamcast way before I could get my hands on 3rd Strike, so maybe that's why they left a stronger impression in me. The stages are much livelier, the music is funkier, the in-game atrtwork is gorgeous... Those after-battle screenshots rocked my world, and brought back oh so many memories from the SFII days. Overall, I think 1st Impact was a bit more impressive (perhaps groundbreaking?) on the artsy side, while 2nd Impact had better music. 3rd Strike has some awesome tunes and backgrounds as well, but it pales in comparision with the previous two. Ryu's onsen stage was gorgeous, and Elena's two-stages-in-one gimmick was great too.
Gameplaywise, 1st Impact felt a bit rougher, but 2nd Impact was much smoother, almost on the same level as 3rd Strike. It added the great feature of boosting your special moves using your Super Art gauge, which I loved with a passion. It made macthes much faster and more thrilling. And, 2nd Impact also had Hugo on it, a character I've never played with but who I love to fight against, as the Final Fight whore I am.
So, overall, I like 2nd Impact the most in the whole series. Sure, 3rd Strike is great, has a lot of characters, car-punching bonus stages and whatnot, but 2nd Impact the true Street Fighter 3 for me.
I'm all for a remix version using 3rd Strike characters in 1st and 2nd Impact stages and musics, though.
[this message was edited by Maese on Sat 3 Oct 13:20] |
| Tai-Pan 379th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(9):Re(10):Let's talk about Street Fighter" , posted Sun 4 Oct 00:37
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So, overall, I like 2nd Impact the most in the whole series. Sure, 3rd Strike is great, has a lot of characters, car-punching bonus stages and whatnot, but 2nd Impact the true Street Fighter 3 for me.
You speak the truth and nothing but the truth.
.........
Now...thank you Polly, you convinced me, I will spend $60 for KOFXII, for I can't resist.
"Those who follow the path of a warrior must be ready to die in order to stand for one's convictions live for one's convictions die for one's convictions"
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| Pollyanna 2778th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):Re(10):Let's talk about Street Fighter" , posted Sun 4 Oct 09:50
Sorry to derail this with KOF XII talk.
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Now...thank you Polly, you convinced me, I will spend $60 for KOFXII, for I can't resist.
I was pretty underwhelmed with the game (excluding the sprites) at first, but the more I've played it with friends, the more its grown on me. Even the characters that I thought were hopelessly gimped before have turned out to be extremely fun once I've spent some time with them.
I really just love KOF, though...so I'm going to be predisposed to like the game. Still, I'm surprised that I'm playing it more than 02 UM, which I thought would be a much bigger deal. In XII, I think I appreciate the more intuitive hitboxes, the relatively better balance and the excellent wakeup game. Also, even though it uses all old characters, once you stop focusing on what they're "missing", you find a lot of new ways to play them. I wish that all the characters had been as reworked as the Psycho Soldiers team, but most of them are more different than they first appear.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Pollyanna 2780th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Let's talk about Street F" , posted Sun 4 Oct 14:31
quote:
My reaction to KOF XII was "Wow, these sprites would be even nicer if I slid my chair back ten feet." This is atypical!
While it could be their resolution against the resolution of every other UI element is what's tripping me out, it's not like that hasn't happened in tons of other fighting games that came out in the last ten years. It is a hell of a lot more jarring in HD, but I think it's more that I felt crowded while playing the game. Claustrophobic-like! Trapped too close! It's almost like... you can't escape!
SHAZAM, BACK ON TOPIC
At ease, loser, you're entitled to your opinion...unless your opinion is that KOFXII looks better with the filters on...in which case, I will never trust another word you say.
Speaking of resolution, all this talk is making me want to bust out 3rd Strike again, but I wonder if it would look better running it on the PS3, or running it on the PS2 through my HDBox thingie and playing at the windowed, native resolution. Or...or...would an emulator scale better? I can run an HDMI cable from my computer to the TV. Hmmm...retro gaming is so troublesome in the HD era.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| HAYATO 947th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Street Fighter III HD" , posted Wed 7 Oct 03:26
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Speaking of resolution, all this talk is making me want to bust out 3rd Strike again, but I wonder if it would look better running it on the PS3, or running it on the PS2 through my HDBox thingie and playing at the windowed, native resolution. Or...or...would an emulator scale better? I can run an HDMI cable from my computer to the TV. Hmmm...retro gaming is so troublesome in the HD era.
Final Burn Alpha is a great, not so demanding, arcade emulator loaded with filters that will allow you to play SFIII in an awesome fullHD, even on a low-end PC (such as my poor, 4 year old Pentium 4)... The first time I applied the filters I found myself on the verge of shedding tears of sheer joy!!!
In case you want to play it on TV, I'm afraid I can't help you though...
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| karasu99
224th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(1):Street Fighter III HD" , posted Wed 7 Oct 04:11
quote:
Final Burn Alpha is a great, not so demanding, arcade emulator loaded with filters that will allow you to play SFIII in an awesome fullHD, even on a low-end PC (such as my poor, 4 year old Pentium 4)... The first time I applied the filters I found myself on the verge of shedding tears of sheer joy!!!
In case you want to play it on TV, I'm afraid I can't help you though...
Wow, that was an alarming subject line-- I thought it was... well, you know, the impossible dream of Capcom un-forgetting SFIII.
On a related subject, I'm setting up my Dreamcast tonight for some Third Strike goodness.
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