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| Pollyanna 2719th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
     
|  "Re(7):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Thu 16 Jul 10:09
The game just came out, so maybe people are either too busy to have played it much or too busy playing to talk about it?
I had the fortune (?) of being very sick the other day, which happened to be the day I got the game...so I've played a bit.
Let me start by saying that I'm not a DQ fan. I've played all the games...I liked the PS2 DQV remake fairly well and I think DQVII is (probably) a masterpiece. I love the soundtracks. DQVIII didn't do anything for me. Also, I just finished Arc Rise Fantasia, which I liked so much I told myself to not play any other RPGs for a while afterward.
So I dunno how "valid" my opinion is, but...
I think the game is kind of boring, but extremely addictive. Even in tiny 10 minute increments, I can't stop myself from playing. I've been busy with work the last 2 days, but any time I have a second of down time I play DQ.
That being said, it does a really good job of delivering a lot of little joys. Getting a new weapon...a new accessory...finishing a little quest...getting a new drop item to use in the alchemy pot...playing with your costumes...there's always something fun to do.
So far the game has been stupidly easy, but on the upside that allows for more freedom with costumes (wearing something you want to see rather than something practical) and classes/skills. Maybe it gets tougher later? The battles have been boring, but the customization surrounding them has been rewarding.
Even though it's a big step down from DQVIII, I like the way the game looks, too. The characters and enemies have a lot of animations and the environments have quite a bit of personality all things considered. The FMV looks especially good...the opening animation (the one that plays about an hour into the game) is one of the best, if not the best plot-related FMV I've seen in a game.
On the downside, the story is sometimes charming, but overall bland, and things often feel kind of unnecessarily sluggish. For example, while it doesn't look bad to have the characters run around in battle, sometimes they get "stuck" and kind of just...run in circles while everyone else watches. I imagine they had the characters move around to simulate a "real" battle a little better, but the seemingly random running kind of kills that. Also, when a mage uses a staff, they drain MP from the enemy. This appears as a blue number over their head like any other time you drain in any other game...only this time, after that, the fight totally stops for a second or two shows a closeup on the mage and tells you how many MP you just drained, as if you couldn't see for yourself. There are also a number of time-eating jingles and unnecessary text notices that slow down processes that aren't much fun to deal with in the first place.
Speaking of jingles, I find the soundtrack barely tolerable. The opening theme (not the main DQ theme, but the one from the cinema I mentioned before) was really nice, but the majority of the songs are either immediately annoying or initially charming, then annoying a few minutes later. I especially dislike the battle themes. I'm considering putting DQ music on my iPod and playing it while I'm playing the game.
So...yeah...I guess if DQ was something spiritual to me, maybe I would be disappointed, but looking at it as another DS RPG, it's a great game.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Maou 1723th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(2):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Fri 17 Jul 00:23:
quote:
I heard this was a concerted effort by a Japanese board to bring down the rating as a protest.
Entirely possible...though the first four pages or so of reviews seemed to be legit, at least. Well, except for the guy who only wrote "Admit you're wrong, Squenix, if monsters are already visible on the field it's totally not exciting if Metal Slime or Stray Metal show up" and gave it three stars. But then, I kind of like this review, too.
The real test of course is to go to Book Off and check the prices...like, when FFXII was selling there for 3000Y three months after it came out, it was probably a sign that real-life people didn't think it was any fun, either.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 17 Jul 00:24] |
| Pollyanna 2720th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Sat 18 Jul 08:42
I'm sad that people don't get to experience the PS2 DQV. The soundtrack is worth the price of admission in itself. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a CD version of it. I bought the Symphonic Suite, but that's the old arrange and it's not the full soundtrack...
I have decided that DQIX must be a great game because it's all I want to do with myself anymore and I don't even know why.
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Apropos of nothing, this reminds me of the time a friend of mine stated that he didn't find the movie Zoolander funny until the third time he watched it. Most people would only sit through a movie they didn't enjoy once but he stuck with that bad boy for three viewings until he finally warmed up to it. Then again, I was recently eyeing a cheap copy of MGS4 even though I have an unfinished copy of MGS3 still lying around the house so who am I to judge the lengths people will go in order to sift out entertainment?
Sounds like me with SaGa games. Ohhh the suffering they've caused me...and yet I always come back for more.
But with DQ...it's like...when a new DQ game comes out, I buy it...and I...probably enjoy it. But I wouldn't call myself a FAN. A fan would have expectations...they would have a countdown. They would complain about changes, where I wouldn't even notice them.
My mom is a DQ fan. She's probably played DQ8 for over 500 hours. I got a DQ cellphone strap and little...keychain thing for her in Japan (those were her souvenirs, sadly enough). One of them was one of those randomly packaged things where you don't know which keychain you're getting until you open it. Anyway, it was some random monster and she exploded with all this information about it. "It likes this...it doesn't like this...it trips and falls when it does this...etc. etc." Although I had played more DQ games than her, my only response to the thing was "I think I vaguely remember fighting that at some point."
I feel like I only have so many "fan tickets" to hand out and I take them back sometimes as well. Right now, I think they belong to Megaten, King of Fighters and Monster Hunter. Everything else, I just like.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| karasu99
176th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(7):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Wed 22 Jul 00:39
So I went ahead and bought both-- I had trouble finding IV at my local retailers so I ordered it, and bought V off the shelf. From what everyone has said, playing V should be fine, since the stories aren't related at all in any significant way, right?
And... V is great! I've played through the second 'dungeon' and I'm starting on the third, and I've enjoyed it quite a bit.
I suppose the best term I can find to describe the game is that it's 'charming'. It's enjoyable in a completely different way from something like Final Fantasy IV, which is honestly the only game I can really compare it to here. For example, something like when you...
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
seemingly meet your future self in the village shortly after finishing the second dungeon (I'm guessing that's the case since I don't know for sure that it's really my future self at this point).
End of Spoiler
I can't imagine that being done in a Final Fantasy game, since they always end up being so much more 'cosmic', even early on. Plus the monster design is often slanted toward the silly, which is a little refreshing.
So yeah, a great, charming game. Hopefully I'll manage to actually finish it!
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| karasu99
177th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Thu 23 Jul 05:32
quote:
Took the words right out of my mouth. DQ has always had that charming feel to it. I really have to be in the mood for it, but I can appreciate it.
exodus, DQ5 actually has a proper story, it seems. I tried 7 many years ago and was completely turned off at the beginning by the horrible fetch quests and very slow to start gameplay. DQ5 at least starts off sort of exciting, with lots of premonition for events to come. Not saying you'll be convinced, but at least it's on a handheld! :)
I've heard some of the best as well as the worst things in relation to the DQ series leveled against DQVII, so I'm hesitant to ever give it a try.
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yeahhhhhhh I already got rid of my copy after trying IV and then looking at the rather unappealing squashed graphics next to the boasts of extremely long gameplay on the back of the box.
IV's localization drove me nuts, and I don't like toriyama's art at all, so I gave up before I started.
Well, I can't stand Toriyama either, but his art here is much less obvious than in Chrono Trigger, so that I only occasionally notice it. I can't really speak to the localization, knowing what amounts to 'SNK fighter Japanese', and the days when I bothered to read or even glance at packaging are looong behind me. What brought me to DQ in the first place is that I had heard tell that they are a somewhat different take on jrpg's, which I've found V to be, at least.
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| exodus 4192th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Thu 23 Jul 06:12
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I'm curious, what's the last game that made you think "wow, this game has nice art!" ?
you mean a modern game, right? because I have lots of examples of "wow, they did that with THIS hardware?"
I'd say muramasa, SF III, Ico, those all impressed me at the time (muramasa is contemporary, so).
Otherwise, I can certainly point to aspects I like, such as BioShock's production design, The Unfinished Swan's spare world...
actually come to think of it, lots of indies impress me. the misadventures of p.b. winterbottom, everything by amanita design, blueberry garden, etc.
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| KTallguy 1121th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(3):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Thu 23 Jul 07:49
The last game that made me go "wow this game has nice art" is Demon's Souls.
It has got this totally oppressive, Diablo 1 style artwork, with some gore when it needs to. I really like the look and design of the enemies in the game, they take some generic designs and give them a lot of life with good animation and small touches here and there. Some of the bosses are Shadow of the Colossus style huge, and I like the designs for all of them. I also really like the armor and weapon designs, and the attack animations.
The environments impressed me the most though. Some of them are very beautiful, and some of them are just ugly as sin, but in a way that made me feel: "Jesus, I'm so disgusted and feel so oppressed, I'm not sure I want to go any further". They made me feel exactly how the protagonist must feel slogging through swamps made of god knows what.
Technically, there are a lot of problems with the engine, such as the lack of shadows and AA, and some silly ragdoll effects that can break the mood. But I was enjoying myself too much to notice.
Play to win... or to have fun too! :)
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| Maou 1739th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Thu 23 Jul 08:01
quote:
The last game that made me go "wow this game has nice art" is Demon's Souls.
It has got this totally oppressive, Diablo 1 style artwork, with some gore when it needs to. I really like the look and design of the enemies in the game, they take some generic designs and give them a lot of life with good animation and small touches here and there. Some of the bosses are Shadow of the Colossus style huge, and I like the designs for all of them. I also really like the armor and weapon designs, and the attack animations.
The environments impressed me the most though. Some of them are very beautiful, and some of them are just ugly as sin, but in a way that made me feel: "Jesus, I'm so disgusted and feel so oppressed, I'm not sure I want to go any further". They made me feel exactly how the protagonist must feel slogging through swamps made of god knows what.
Technically, there are a lot of problems with the engine, such as the lack of shadows and AA, and some silly ragdoll effects that can break the mood. But I was enjoying myself too much to notice.
Discussion of Dragon Quest and visual design in the same thread? I love the Cafe!
For my most recent "wow's" in response to game art are the usual refrain from me: flOwer, Colossus, flOwer, Wish Room/Hotel Dusk, flOwer, Braid, flOwer, and flOwer. Since I'm still bumbling through Wish Room and love graphic adventures, I'd say I'm especially stuck on its outstanding black-and-white style (or is there a better word for it, nobi?) and animation-frame style art.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| exodus 4195th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Fri 24 Jul 01:32
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You guys gotta remember that Brandon doesn't like traditional RPGs. (Unless something has changed?)
well, it hasn't totally changed, but I do appreciate mid-period traditional RPGs, having finally beaten chrono trigger, and the super bland Brave Story, which was nostalgaic enough for me to get through. I also would've beaten the DS version of FFIII if someone hadn't stolen it. I got pretty far in Crisis Core too, though it's ultimately a bit boring.
For me, it's more about the graphics and the story, which both have to overcome the grinding (and it's nice when there's none necessary) and that's where I have trouble with DQ.
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Demon's Souls is a weird beast. I thought it looked clunky too at first (and at E3), but it's one of those games that looks not-fun to play if someone is not good at it. Once you get good at it, the action is pretty great, with great backstab kills and all.
playing it felt not fun, to me, but I can acnkowledge that there could potentially be more there. I just generally dislike 3D brawlers, and this seemed like a clunkier version of that, so it didn't do it for me. Maybe I'll try to get further into it if it sells poorly and gets discounted. I'm not paying full price for it though, it seems too unlikely to engage me. I dunno!
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| Pollyanna 2731th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Sat 25 Jul 20:36
So I've hit about 30 hours in DQIX now....most of them have been spent leveling up/gaining skills. This isn't like me! I usually try to fight relatively few enemies, level up as little as possible and follow the plot straight through.
But the class system is so addictive! It's like DQVIII in that you get skill points when you level up that can go into weapons or "class specific" skill sets, only when you change classes, you start out at level one, but keep all your skills. You do not keep your SPELLS, which would make things way too simple.
Since there's no penalty for doing...anything, really, I keep starting my characters over in new classes, seeing which ones I like, which combination I like on a team, and what kind of character I can build with combined skill sets.
Thanks to the early introduction of metal slimes, (re)leveling low-level characters is quick and painless. I don't think I'm overleveled for this part of the game, but I have spent a good deal of time making sure my team is just how I like it (until I get some other idea in my head of a fun combination).
All of the boss fights I fought have been fairly one-dimensional, but I've spent so much time building these characters...picking out their clothes...picking out their features and skills and whatever that it feels like I'm putting my team building skills to the test. Like I'm tossing my baby birds out of the nest and seeing if they can fly or not.
It's so hard not to get sidetracked in the game. There's an absolutely stupid number of quests and "hidden" bosses that get stronger every time you fight them...and items to make...and places to explore (they practically give you free reign over the world as soon as you get your boat, which is fairly early).
The plot has been hit or miss, but some of the short stories have been very good...reminding me a lot of DQVII.
I feel like a "closing statement" needs to go here, but I don't really have one.
Uhm...
Yay DQIX!
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Iggy 8947th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Sat 25 Jul 21:31
quote:
There is no better Japanese RPG to avoid enemies in, given that it introduced the enemies on screen bit, who are incredibly easy to avoid, and given that you can run easily, with no penalty, ever.
"Easy to avoid" except for 90% of them.
And all the Japanese RPG where the enemies are visible on screen (Romasaga and FFXII jump in mind immediately) disagree with you as well. And there are plenty of games where fleeing has no penalty, though, like in Chrono, you have to enter the fight before fleeing.
Face it, Chrono Trigger has no quality whatsoever beside being easy to understand and having been released in the states.
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| Maou 1749th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Sun 26 Jul 15:30:
I don't think I can argue that Chrono Trigger is great to its opponents any more than I can with film fans who don't like Casablanca or Seven Samurai or Lawrence of Arabia or something. If Chrono doesn't do it for an RPG fan, there is nothing left in this world that can please them.
On the other hand, I still contend that Chrono's monsters are easy to avoid if you just walk (not run) around them. I'd say that at least half of all fights can be avoided if need be (and in any event, you'll never ever ever need to grind because the experience is generous). If "grind" means "having to ever fight a monster" then it's a grind game, but otherwise, no way. In any event, the fact that it takes all of two seconds to run if you do bumble into a fight makes it pretty painless and un-grindy. And for other grind-free games, Final MMORPG XII doesn't count, I'm talking about conventional RPG's, nor do the RPG's that tried to copy the on-screen battle system but missed the point by having field enemies that loaded you into a separate battle screen, wasting the same amount of time as before with random battles. I love Estpolis/Lufia and friends, but on-screen, yet turn-based, fights are what I'd love to see more of.
Anyway, speaking of which, Dragon Quest without random encounters seems hard to imagine.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sun 26 Jul 15:46] |
| Pollyanna 2734th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Sun 26 Jul 15:43
I'm getting used to not having random encounters in RPGs. The lack of them in DQIX have encouraged me to explore more, which I've enjoyed tremendously. But again...not really a DQ fan.
quote:
On-screen, yet turn-based, fights are what I'd love to see more of...hardly anyone copied that after Chrono Trigger.
I think that's a bit short-sighted. To pull that off, the characters would have to either have boring attacks or always go around in wide open spaces, which just makes for more needless running.
In Chrono Trigger, the characters can jump to places that don't actually exist without it looking awkward, because the graphics are simplistic. In a game with detailed renders, it wouldn't work unless you bothered changing their animation based on their environment, which is more trouble than it's worth. The fact that most games use a host of renders for the same character (overhead map/battle/cinema/important cinema) complicates things even further.
Not only that, you would have limitations on what you could do in terms of background design.
It's a fine idea for a 2D game or a more primitive 3D one, but I think maybe you're stuck in an old-school line of thinking for RPGs. Or maybe I'm just biased because I hate huge, sprawling open areas and games that artificially increase their length by making you run unnecessarily far to get anywhere. (something Chrono Trigger most definitely didn't do)
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Maou 1750th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Sun 26 Jul 15:57:
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It's a fine idea for a 2D game or a more primitive 3D one, but I think maybe you're stuck in an old-school line of thinking for RPGs. Or maybe I'm just biased because I hate huge, sprawling open areas and games that artificially increase their length by making you run unnecessarily far to get anywhere. (something Chrono Trigger most definitely didn't do)
Actually, that's just it. I do want tight, well-designed dungeons that don't expand forever needlessly (I would have liked XII a lot more if I hadn't felt like every dungeon was me traversing the entirety of another RPG's world map). Why would having the characters fight enemies on-screen be a problem? I'd like to see them bump into monsters, have the menu turn up, and have combat take place in close quarters in a well-shaped dungeon with nice backgrounds. Unless we're talking about making it some kind of combo or action RPG (and I'm not, really), they shouldn't need the 'dead space' to jump around everywhere or climb on trees and whatnot.
I've felt that the switch to battle screens is what's short-sighted lately...given that world maps and random encounters are often phased out these days since they were really just concessions to technological limitations of times past, why should a separate battle screen have to happen, where the same environment you were just running around has to be re-animated with more or less detail? Instead, what if they put all their energy into making just one of these environments and making it so that it both looked pretty and could easily accomodate a battle? I just don't see any justification for the schizophrenia between field and battle screen anymore, other than that the two have been stuck in two separate compartments in people's minds for so long.
Like, even XII---which I found to a good example of the problem you rightly mention where dungeons are far too sprawling and empty---showed that you could have detailed fights in pretty environments...the environments there were just too big, since the fights and escapes were calibrated with an online RPG system in mind. If a menu had popped up in XII's field for fights, you could have just cut down the size of those fields and have had just the kind of seemless combat I'm hoping for.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sun 26 Jul 16:00] |
| Amakusa 815th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(6):Re(10):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Mon 27 Jul 04:29
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Psh, I wasn't too serious about calling CT the finest thing in the world...trollbait? Especially after posting that it was terrible out of the blue? I believe miserable London is making you more dour than ever, dear sir.
Anyway, I just assumed Chrono Trigger was sort of a classic at this point but that people who don't like it have a solid reason they don't like it and are highly unlikely to be convinced, regardless of what reputation it may have. It's just not some new game where people's opinions are likely to be in flux.
When people remember Chrono Trigger as being an awesome game they remember Chrono Trigger as it was when it first came out, when it found a way to stand out among all the other games around it. In retrospect, it wasn't the game system itself that people loved, but how it was presented. At its base level it really was no different than Final Fantasy.
Changing random encounters to set encounters certainly addressed peoples' growing concern with the random encounters themselves, but then all the set encounters were placed in such a way that you pretty much would run into all of them made things no different than how random encounters played out. You would still attempt to kill them all or run from every encounter; it was exactly the same as any other game. The only difference there would be the encounters would no longer be random, and that really isn't enough. There is no method of encounter avoidance, which I deem is very important to having visible field encounters.
In some regards the battle system in Chrono Trigger is what I would feel is inferior to Secret of Mana; their presentation is similar (perhaps deliberately so), but it was very rare that you couldn't just run through all the monsters in Secret of Mana if you really wanted to.
I found Kagami's sword in a junk yard.
I will rule the world and find that truly good cup of coffee.
"Dink-a-dink-a-dink-a-do."
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| Iggy 8950th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Re(10):Re(10):Dragon Quest IX?" , posted Mon 27 Jul 04:31
quote:
Especially after posting that it was terrible out of the blue? I believe miserable London is making you more dour than ever, dear sir.
You're probably right.
I still can't stand how everyone assumes this is one of the best game in history even though the scenario is insultingly bland, the system boring to death and the technical execution, while top-notch at the time, was surpassed in a matter of months (like all the technical summits ever).
I mean, even without pulling the Saga card again, Rudora no Hihou has one of the best scenario and storytelling out there, looked gorgeous in his time, was trying something completely new and original, and nobody cares about it.
To go on with your cinema metaphor, it's like everyone would still talk about Mel Gibson's Braveheart while nobody would remember Imamura's Unagi.
OK, my metaphor sucks, but you see where I'm going here, do you? Not that I care if you don't.
What I mean in the end is: screw you, England!
Oh, and to go back to my first post in this thread: I already got back two of the friends that got sucked up in DQN. So much for "a game that will last until next year!"
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