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| Pollyanna 2676th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
     
|  "Re(2):The E3 Thread" , posted Fri 29 May 09:09
quote:
Fragile coming to the US. Wait, I don't remember, is this game any good or does it stink?
Although Iggy's negativity toward the game is by no means unfounded, I would regard it as a bad game with a lot going for it. I liked the music, settings (especially), character designs...I thought the script was well written and there were some enjoyable vocal performances in there, too.
But as far as playing...the game is terrible. Navigating the flashlight is a nightmare sometimes, the battles are pointless and boring, there aren't nearly enough puzzles...and toward the end there are HUGE HUGE open areas where you just run and run and run until you want to bash your head in just to end your boredom.
Unfortunately, since the conclusion was sort of weak, the game left a bad taste in my mouth and I have to try to remember the "good times" from earlier in the game. But...there definitely was a time...maybe for half the game, where I thought it was truly something magical, despite the horrible gameplay.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Iggy 8916th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Wed 3 Jun 06:28
I think nobody will follow me on this, but Mario&Yoshi Galaxy is the only game of the whole conference I wanted to play.
Both the FFXIII team and Kojima were ridiculous, in a bad way. Kudos to FFXIV, on the other hand, and if they manage to keep it out of the PC (and, to a lesser extend, off the 360) it will be incredible.
MS's conference was an incredible disaster. I don't understand, with all they had in hand, they managed to purvey the panicked feeling of "we don't know what to do let's try anything". In comparison, Sony's conference was maybe the best of the 3, and after the laughable disaster of last year, I'm sorely disappointed. The fat guy wasn't even as annoying (but Nintendo's Cammy was, oh god I hate her).
Iwata was classy and swell, as always.
Sony's online race game was better than MS's, and their motion sensor thing much more game oriented, but those people should learn that "tech demo" is NG. The device is scheduled for next year, they HAVE to have more to show than the skeleton from the first demo of Zelda 64. Now make me Demon Souls 2 with this, and I'm happy.
Ueda's trailer looks better when it's finished. Let's not mention the new PSP.
Capcom's crew not coming because of the Swine Flu was lame.
I think Bayonetta looks better than GoW3, and I don't think Bayonetta looks good to begin with.
My biggest gripe is: all Sony has in hand is scheduled for a 2010 release. What are they going to sell at Christmas?
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| Maese Spt 489th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(8):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Wed 3 Jun 13:36:
quote:
So wait, help me connect the dots here because I must have missed some interrim politics. Is Itagaki back with Team Ninja? Or did they break off from Tecmo and rejoin with Itagaki?
Yeah, I'm a bit lost as well... I knew Itagaki left Tecmo right before the Koei merge (more like he was fired), but didn't know the whole team Ninja deserted with him. Or does it mean Koei-Tecmo is teaming with Nintendo now? And, more importantly, will I be able to beat the crap out of Princess Zelda with Lu Bu on the next Smash Bros? Only time will tell...
And yes, Iggy is not alone. The biggest thing of the whole E3 for me was to see, at last, a game that feels like a true sequel to Super Mario World. You sure took your time, Shigeru, you bastard. Now I have a compelling reason to buy a damned Wii.
EDIT: I refused to believe the rumors of Kojima making a brand new Castlevania game, but it seems the thing is pretty much confirmed... I don't know what to think, but at least I will give the game the benefit of the doubt. The series was in dire need of a proper rehash since long ago, and maybe him would be the right man to do so. We'll see.
[this message was edited by Maese Spt on Wed 3 Jun 13:46] |
| Pollyanna 2679th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Wed 3 Jun 14:16
quote:
Ghaleon sez: Let's not forget the umpeenth remake of Lunar~The Silver Star for PSP, also announced for the US.
It's really a shame, since Eternal Blue is so much better. I would LOVE to play it again, but I think I've done Silver Star enough. I was thinking "well, it might be nice" for a second, but when I saw those old monster designs (that were never good in the first place!) I changed my mind.
Speaking of games we've already played that are being showcased at E3...
Yuusha 30 (Half Minute Hero) is totally awesome.
I had strangely high expectations for the game, and I was not let down. It has its flaws (Oujo 30 needed longer levels and more bosses, Maou 30 needed to be way harder with more killing and less running around...Knight 30 needed to last forever because it was so great), but I was really surprised that in addition to the addictive gameplay, I found myself strangely engaged in the plot.
I don't want to gush about it forever and ever, because I don't know if anyone actually cares, but I will say that it has the rare distinction of having an incredibly awesome title screen song. At first I thought "wow, they're really ripping off the Alfee", until I found out Takamizawa wrote the song. Tohoho...
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Sensenic 1676th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(6):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Wed 3 Jun 16:23
quote:
So wait, help me connect the dots here because I must have missed some interrim politics. Is Itagaki back with Team Ninja? Or did they break off from Tecmo and rejoin with Itagaki?
Jaja, no, no, my miss here. I didn't remember at all Itagaki had been shown the way out a while ago.
As a matter of fact, now I'm starting to recall reading sth about it around here... but just vaguely...
On Real World (tm) stuff, a reliable source I be not.
/(;^_^)
quote:
Over-the-top action? In my Metroid? 
It's more likely than you think
I know, I've seen the trailer... But I wish it's kept to a minimum, such as some QTE-like finishers of sorts...
Because the rest looks so damn good...
Yeah, a man can dream. u.u
In fact, after a second watch this morning, (how could I miss it the first time?!) I couldn't help but recognize a certain very special sequence from Super Metroid.
A remake, maybe?
貧乳神・・・
"Don't give me that crap about real life. There ain't no such animal."
-Felix Leiter-
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| Sensenic 1679th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(8):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Wed 3 Jun 18:26:
quote:
) I couldn't help but recognize a certain very special sequence from Super Metroid.
A remake, maybe?
Or flashback, since it appears to be FMV.
Madre Cerebro te aniquilara!
Been reading over there:
quote:
"It will take you deeper into Samus' story, and further into the Metroid universe," said Nintendo's Reggie Fils-Aime, who prefaced the introduction by stating Nintendo's intention to develop a "mature" game that would satisfy internet-dwelling fans.
So it's more looking like a "Metroid Chronicles" to me now, since we know it goes from young Samus until at least SM.
A Story-driven Metroid, that might be good, as long as that doesn't make the game linear and less open-ended.
But on the other hand, there's the "aimed to satisfy internet-dwelling fans" part... uh-oh.
El fan de hinternete sí que te aniquilará! ò_ó
貧乳神・・・
"Don't give me that crap about real life. There ain't no such animal."
-Felix Leiter-
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Wed 3 Jun 18:28] |
| Gojira 2530th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Wed 3 Jun 23:43
quote:
FFXIV was a surprise. It even looked good for a few seconds, until I saw the tiny "online" part. FFXI-2 and here we go again.
I play FFXI and from what I read and saw about it in the site and ffxi forums, it looks like it's borrowing a fair deal from XI - the same playable races still seems to apply (sort of - the Galka look-alikes seem to have no tal, which is fine by me), and some comment on a new one being available (also, there now seem to be male mithras - ffxi's cat-people).
It's been about 7 years since FFXI was released and hopefully a lot was learned to make a better game - it looks promising, but how wonder how much will actually change.
I suppose I shouldn't talk down on FFXI since I haven't actually played it for more than 5 minutes, but my hatred for MMORPGs runs deep, like hemmheroids. I can't simply discard it. The crowd seemed pretty disappointed too, which was cute since they had been gasping for air at the announcement.
I also don't understand Squenix's mental tick with numbering things that are only loosely related. Though when I think about it, the first time they did this they made a follow-up game in the previous game's world (FFX-2) and I guess they're doing that again with FFXIII Versus. If they haven't cancelled it.
shipoopi
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| IkariDC 767th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(8):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Thu 4 Jun 04:38:
Regarding Itagaki's return to the videogame industry: Tokyo Vikings.
It would have been cooler if they were the Techno Vikings.
About that rumored Kojima Castlevania game, it was first revealed at last year's Games Convention. It was called Lord of Shadows, developed by the Spanish MercurySteam company (of Jericho fame) for Konami.
The thing is, it's a Castlevania game but wasn't supposed to be part of the franchise, but they're testing waters now? It's confusing, with Kojima's supposed involvement and all but I guess they'll announce something about it on Konami's press conference (I hope).
Edit: By the way Polly, I forgot to comment, I'm very interested in Yuusha 30! I'm pumped up for this game because of the composer roster: Yuzo Koshiro, Motoi Sakuraba, Norihiko Hibino, Koji Hayama, Tate-Norio, Yamapy-1, SHA-V and Hiya!. Those 4 last composers were former Shinsekai Gakkyoku Zatsugidan composers in the good-old days of SNK. Good stuff!
[this message was edited by IkariDC on Thu 4 Jun 05:13] |
| Gojira 2532th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Thu 4 Jun 06:39
quote:
Edit: By the way Polly, I forgot to comment, I'm very interested in Yuusha 30! I'm pumped up for this game because of the composer roster: Yuzo Koshiro, Motoi Sakuraba, Norihiko Hibino, Koji Hayama, Tate-Norio, Yamapy-1, SHA-V and Hiya!. Those 4 last composers were former Shinsekai Gakkyoku Zatsugidan composers in the good-old days of SNK. Good stuff!
You just sold me on a game I know absolutely nothing about. I don't know what system it's for, I don't know what company makes it, I don't know what kind of game it is, hell I don't even know what the game LOOKS like. And you sold me on it.
shipoopi
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| Pollyanna 2680th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Thu 4 Jun 07:08
quote:
By the way Polly, I forgot to comment, I'm very interested in Yuusha 30! I'm pumped up for this game because of the composer roster: Yuzo Koshiro, Motoi Sakuraba, Norihiko Hibino, Koji Hayama, Tate-Norio, Yamapy-1, SHA-V and Hiya!. Those 4 last composers were former Shinsekai Gakkyoku Zatsugidan composers in the good-old days of SNK. Good stuff!
The soundtrack is really good! The last thing you unlock in the game is the sound test mode and for the first time ever, that was exactly what I wanted.
I expected the game to have a retro digital sound, but it's got a lot of variety and a surprisingly large amount of rock music. Most of Maou's songs have a heavy metal flair and the last boss theme is like crazy speed metal. There's a lot of "traditional RPG" music, too...but more than anything, it's just "whatever is most fun". The Knight's theme, for example, has a Japanese flair to it and is like...tear-jerking. Really added a wonderful feel to his scenario.
I haven't bothered checking who composed what yet, and outside of Takamizawa's songs, my ear isn't good enough to tell, but now that I have the sound test mode I'll have to see.
I thought I was done with the game, but I just found out that Yuusha 30 mode has like...20 extra scenarios, which is quite a treat. Even though your timer is 30 seconds, each scenario takes about 2 minutes, since time doesn't tick in towns and you can reset the clock for a fee. One of the most fun things is finding all the different ways to solve a scenario, which is what lead discovering the extra ones.
Like, for example, there's one level where the boss' castle is guarded by a giant beetle that's impossible to defeat. You have to do a quest to build a boat so you can reach the castle from behind. However, if you equip a flyswatter as your weapon, the beetle dies in one hit. The catch is, you can't kill anything ELSE with the flyswatter because it's such a crappy weapon. Buuut...on the upside, once you kill the beetle, you get so much EXP that it doesn't matter HOW weak your weapon is.
Anyway, the point I was getting at is that if you beat the beetle instead of building the boat, then it unlocks a branching path in the story. It's amazing that the game can give you the "full RPG experience" in so little time and still manage to include several different ways to resolve each scenario.
Still, I think maybe the strongest portions of the game are the three unlockable "games". In Knight 30, you aren't fighting the clock, you're trying to survive for 30 seconds. You can't beat enemies, and unless you have a weapon, you can only throw yourself at them pathetically or run around until you're exhausted. Even though you're technically running down the clock, everything is so frantic that the concept of "every second counts" is still evident.
But I really like what the last two games did with time. "Yuusha 300" really worked well with the concept of pacing yourself, and "Yuusha 3" taught me the value of every millisecond and every little square on the map.
Haha...anyway, I don't remember what I was getting at, but I'm happy I got to babble about the game a bit all the same.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| IkariDC 768th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Thu 4 Jun 07:13:
quote:
You just sold me on a game I know absolutely nothing about. I don't know what system it's for, I don't know what company makes it, I don't know what kind of game it is, hell I don't even know what the game LOOKS like. And you sold me on it.
Ha, ha! Great! Well, it's a PSP game with a concept based on a japanese doujin game. Feast your eyes with some gameplay videos and commercials.
Edit: Polly, regarding The Alfee, I thought it could be an interesting band but I didn't hear anything until I went to Japan. I found the Innocent Love single at a price I couldn't turn it down: 200yen. Well, I guess I could get into Takamizawa's guitar play and solos, but I didn't like the band's overall style. So, is there anything else I should check from this band before losing all hope?
[this message was edited by IkariDC on Thu 4 Jun 07:22] |
| Sensenic 1680th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Thu 4 Jun 22:32:
Railing back:
quote:
Metroid: Dread or Alive
Interview to the creators by the Parish.
Apparently it'll be "Metroid 3.5", between Super and Fusion.
They guarantee that they aim for a game playable for everyone, so no Ninja-Gaiden-esque difficulty.
As for the rest, nothing that we didn't know or guess from the trailer:
Heavily story driven, explorable but linear-by-storyline at the same time (similar to Fusion. I see possible complaints here: No room for sequence breaking make Metroid fans angry...)... And team Ninja adding their own touch of over-the-top action while keeping the sinister, lonely classic atmosphere. Will these 2 elements merge well?
No specifications on gameplay (2.5D? free 3D? FPS for bosses?)
Don't know... I have high hopes on it (it's a new title by the original team, lotsa backstory, they say it'll keep the metroid atmosphere...), but I do dread at the same time. Plenty of room to screw up (but then again, that comes with taking risks and moving things forward).
quote:
Anyway, as worried as I am about Konami letting their beloved franchise in the hands of an obscure European Spanish subsidiary, they also have Kojima to counter-balance their potential misdeeds. And Iga not being involved on the project is a good thing in my book, too. I want to believe.
Corregido 
Veremos cómo le dan el toque patrio a esta serie los descendientes de don Éric Lecarde Ricardo, "alcarde" de Segovia... :garrulo_con_boina:
Has IGA really been kicked out for good from the saga?
If that's so, even if his games were growing stale and he never managed to get the 3D's right, I think he deserves a little more appreciation than that... 
EDIT for some formattin'
貧乳神・・・
"Don't give me that crap about real life. There ain't no such animal."
-Felix Leiter-
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Thu 4 Jun 22:33] |
| Maou 1674th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(7):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Thu 4 Jun 23:33:
quote:
Has IGA really been kicked out for good from the saga?
If that's so, even if his games were growing stale and he never managed to get the 3D's right, I think he deserves a little more appreciation than that...
After the atrocity that was Castlevania Judgment, maybe he deserved to get kicked to the curb...
Well, if he's out, it would be due to his basic inability to sell these slipshod Nocturne/Symphony clones to more than 10 people in Japan, I'd think. Either that, or his resounding lack of judgment (haha) visible everywhere from increasingly desperate art direction (Kojima and the illustrator of Stolen Seal/Order of Ecclesia excepted) to an inability to make a 3D Dracula platformer despite knowing that the N64 ones were bad, or, of course, for his drunken stupor that led to Judgment.
I mean, if the father of Final Fantasy can get the axe from Square for Spirits Within tanking, I'm sure a lesser force like Igarashi can vanish for not overseeing a truly impressive outing with Dracula since...1997?
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Thu 4 Jun 23:36] |
| Maou 1676th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(9):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Fri 5 Jun 12:43:
quote:
I mean, if the father of Final Fantasy can get the axe from Square for Spirits Within tanking, I'm sure a lesser force like Igarashi can vanish for not overseeing a truly impressive outing with Dracula since...1997?
It's not like the games have gotten worse, they just haven't had the new factor that Symphony had. I didn't own a PS1 back when it was released so I ended up playing both Symphony and Portrait of Ruin in the same year. I enjoyed Portrait a whole lot more; it's a much better game.
Charitable thou art to Mr. Igarashi, but I think you give him a shade too much leniency. I liked some of the portable games a lot and some of the minor tweaks are great, but they have more problems than merely lacking the polish or freshness of the 1997...or maybe that's exactly where all the problems come from. I expect Kojima's introduction might help with Igarashi's inability to add anything compellingly new to the basic and increasingly overused format, or even to do much beyond refine a set gameplay mechanic; what's more glaring, of course, is that there's no way around the fact that none of these games look or sound like anything other than portable approximations of a more impressive debut. They may be good approximations (I greatly enjoyed Minuet/Aria) with some minor updates and gameplay improvements, but they're still closer to, say, "refined" sequels like Rockman 4---or, very kindly, Rockman 9---to the original's Rockman 2, at least in my mind. So, Kojima, show me what you've got, make a decent 3D Drac at least!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 5 Jun 12:49] |
| karasu99
155th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Sat 6 Jun 06:59
quote:
Buuuut...on the other hand, I still can't see LoS as anything more than a generic 3D action game...and I don't know if I'll ever consider it a "real" Castlevania.
It's one of those 'transition from 2D to 3D' issues-- when it's a series like Super Mario Brothers, for example, the only way to succeed in the transformation of a game that depends so heavily on it being 2D is to change the kind of game it is, while somehow keeping whatever quality it is that makes it that game.
Somehow SM64 managed it, but Castlevania didn't. At least not so far.
But you're right, chances are it will be a generic 3D action game, a la God of War or Rygar or whatever. Sigh.
Wow, two threads discussing Castlevania at the same time? An outsider might think we all enjoy the series or something.
On an unrelated note, I'm excited about Yuusha 30 as well, as someone way up there in the thread mentioned. I'm glad something odd like it will be coming to the US.
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| dr baghead 3790th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Mon 8 Jun 03:38
quote:
I still can't see LoS as anything more than a generic 3D action game...and I don't know if I'll ever consider it a "real" Castlevania.
do you consider Street Fighter 4 a "real" Street Fighter, or is it still "Street Fighter EX 4" in your mind?
God of War is an excellent series(which I'm sure falls under "generic" for some reason and ergo isn't as 'good' as Castlevania), and when I was playing GoW2 I was thinking "you know, a Castlevania like this would actually be pretty kick ass" the first Devil May Cry was sort of Castlevaniay too (although the character had a gun not a spinning weapon and the setting felt too 'modern', so really God of War is more apt a comparison) there is NO REASON WHAT SO EVER a competent team (and despite how much I hate MGS's storyline, I can't deny Kojima makes one hell of a fun game) could make a Castlevania on that level.
Yeah, the N64 Castlevania's where steaming piles, but guess what: So was 99% of all N64 games, aside from anything made by Nintendo what on the N64 was worth playing?! Calling back to how the N64 Castlevanias where terrible is like calling back to SFEX on why we can't have a 3D Street Fighter and we get lame ass "Capcom Fighters Jam" instead of the equally lame but less recycled "Capcom Fighting All-Stars." Plus Lament of Innocence got pretty decent reviews it seems, but it sounds like it has a lot of room to improve, if someone can give the game more soul then just "Devil May Cry" it'd probably improve a lot.
As to whether YOU'D consider it a true Castlevania, eh.... maybe you need to learn games need to change to stay around. I had accept "Metroid Prime" wasn't "my Metroid" since I can't play FPS worth dick, but it seemed to do well right? There's like 4 or 5 of them right? Like there's more Metroid Primes then 'real' Metroids aren't there? (wikis it) yeah, 4 Metroid Primes to the 4 'real' Metroids, plus the pinball game and 3 Smash Brothers means Samus has had far more recent outings in non 'real' Metroid games then she did in 'real Metroids.... but I learned to be okay with that, that when I pass the Gamecube or Wii games I see all those shiny Metroid games I can't play and remember how much fun Super Metroid was, I can only hope some little kid who likes FPS is enjoying Metroid Prime just as much, or at the very least some hipster douche is enjoying playing it 'ironically' while wearing his "Girls Kick Ass" Samus NES Sprite T-Shirt On Sale For $29.99 at Hot Topic while lecturing people on the series history he read about on Wikipedia since this was really the first Metroid he ever played despite calling it "the greatest series ever that changed the videogame world!"
So yeah, maybe New Castlevania won't be "true Castlevania" to you, but if it's a good game to someone else it could become 'their true Castlevania' like a little kid who wouldn't touch a 2D game because they're "stupid and old" but really wants to play a kick ass horror game a good 3D Castlevania could open the doors for them (granted that kid has terrible parents and shops at very laxed EB for that example, It says "M" on the box! Why are you buying that for your little kid! someone's gonna tell corporate if sell him that!)... and you know, it gives Hipster Douchebags wearing their "Ladies' Man" Captain N Screen Capture Simon Belmont T-Shirts On Sale For $29.99 At Hot Topic something to play while lecturing their friends on the History of Castlevania and how its "the greatest series ever that changed the videogame world!" (Hipster Douchbags make a HUGE share of Sony's market after all... it's why they proudly proclaim PS1 sold well to 'non-gamers' and why the PS3 launched with jack shit in terms of anything ownable. So selling a game to them is the best way to keep the market alive)
Blanka and Dan make for a most excellent tag image (yeah still not funny)
my silly little drawin's
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| Maou 1679th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Mon 8 Jun 05:52:
Woah wait two irate paragraphs with the same pasted text in a row...is it Stabo in disguise? But seriously, I figure it's probably okay to skeptical of a 3D Dracula since all four have been terribly weak. It doesn't matter to me if tons of N64 games were bad, that doesn't make the two Dracula Apocalypse games any less of an embarrassment to the series. Both PS2 games were similar misses it seems, so while there's no reason that a 3D version couldn't theoretically be good, there's plenty of reason to at least doubt that Konami cares enough to improve a 0/4 track record. But with Kojima, who knows... I agree on Devil May Cry 1, the only one I played, channeling that Dracula vibe.
Props for newcomers getting into an old series through a new 3D version and appreciating the classics, but since sequels aren't a genre so much as a "follow-up to an original work" based on the very definition of a sequel, one can still make a reasonable criticism of a sequel that doesn't seem to relate to its legacy. Whether or not this means sequels are artistically bunk is another question, but as long as a game is a sequel or part of a series, it's reasonable to expect a certain type of continuity based on past precedent, I think.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 8 Jun 05:54] |
| Pollyanna 2686th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Mon 8 Jun 10:53
quote:
do you consider Street Fighter 4 a "real" Street Fighter, or is it still "Street Fighter EX 4" in your mind?
This is both an excellent question AND an excellent burn, but it's not quite the same situation. The reason I think LoS isn't a "real" Castlevania game, is that it wasn't supposed to be a Castlevania game to begin with. They showed us a game that wasn't Castlevania, then showed us essentially the same game and called it Castlevania.
But on the other hand, you're absolutely right that the times dictate what a "real" anything is, and that if Konami says it's "Castlevania", then that makes my sentiments irrelevant in the big picture. I can stomp my foot and call SF4 SF2^2 or SFEX4 all I want, but it's still SF4. So yeah, SF4 still doesn't feel quite like "SF4" to me, but I have to "accept" it as SF4, because that's the reality.
As for God of War being "generic", I think it's evolved into something that decides what is generic. When I first saw the first game, I thought "DMC ripoff", but in time, it's brought some new things to the table and DMC4 had things in it that people could say "GOW ripoff" to. So as for LoS, right now it's "GOW ripoff" or "generic 3D action game", but who knows...it might contribute something new to the genre in the end.
I really should've prefaced my statement with "as it stands now" or "from what they've shown us thus far".
Aaaaaand...
quote:
Then again, we could argue that old Castlevanias are generic 2D action-platformers...
Maybe this is a problem about what Castlevania actually is, or what do you seek in a castlevania game, and probably each one of us has a different answer. For me, Castlevania is pretty much about a whip wielding fella beating skeletons and other B-grade horror movie monsters on gothic-like backgrounds. And some kicking ass rock music. You could definitely do that in 3D as well.
Excellent point about Castlevania games being "generic 2D platformers", although I considered them more like "something that contributes to the standard for generic".
I can't really argue with what your definition of "what Castlevania is", since removing at least most of those elements wouldn't make it Castlevania, but to me, there's a gameplay "spirit" as well. The level-based Castlevanias are good to me, not because of the music or the monsters (or the whip), but because of their meticulous level design. This is a visual thing, but mostly a gameplay one.
This sort of design doesn't translate especially well to 3D because you (by necessity) have larger areas to work with. Some games pull it off (Mario Galaxy and maybe Shinobi immediately come to mind), but I think taking a SoTN-type approach to the 3D Castlevania might create something truly epic if they can pull it off.
If you used the wider areas you see in 3D games as a basis for exploration...created a huge castle, instead of something level-based and combined environments that were fun to run around with epic boss battles, I think you could create a game that people would consider a classic for years to come (and reproduced the spirit of SoTN).
However, I think the reason we haven't seen a game like this is because (as I said earlier) you have to spend money to make money, and this would be a massive undertaking.
I hope that's everything...
Oh...
quote:
Hot Topic
quote:
Hot Topic
quote:
Hot Topic
This made me think (almost incredulously) "I haven't shopped at Hot Topic in over 10 years!"
but then I realized that's not something to be proud about so much as it's something that should make me feel old.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| dr baghead 3791th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Mon 8 Jun 11:24
quote:
This is both an excellent question AND an excellent burn, but it's not quite the same situation. The reason I think LoS isn't a "real" Castlevania game, is that it wasn't supposed to be a Castlevania game to begin with. They showed us a game that wasn't Castlevania, then showed us essentially the same game and called it Castlevania.
But on the other hand, you're absolutely right that the times dictate what a "real" anything is, and that if Konami says it's "Castlevania", then that makes my sentiments irrelevant in the big picture. I can stomp my foot and call SF4 SF2^2 or SFEX4 all I want, but it's still SF4. So yeah, SF4 still doesn't feel quite like "SF4" to me, but I have to "accept" it as SF4, because that's the reality.
As for God of War being "generic", I think it's evolved into something that decides what is generic. When I first saw the first game, I thought "DMC ripoff", but in time, it's brought some new things to the table and DMC4 had things in it that people could say "GOW ripoff" to. So as for LoS, right now it's "GOW ripoff" or "generic 3D action game", but who knows...it might contribute something new to the genre in the end.
I really should've prefaced my statement with "as it stands now" or "from what they've shown us thus far".
I figured as much.
quote:
This made me think (almost incredulously) "I haven't shopped at Hot Topic in over 10 years!"
but then I realized that's not something to be proud about so much as it's something that should make me feel old.
I certainly hope your purchase wasn't ironic, though I assume it was since I can't see you as the type to wear a Hadouken Shirt in public just for the attention(unless you turned that attention into a means to berate people for scrubing as Ken and for claiming to "love Street Fighter" even if though they had no idea the series existed past the Super Nintendo)
Blanka and Dan make for a most excellent tag image (yeah still not funny)
my silly little drawin's
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| NARUTO 3706th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Mon 8 Jun 16:19
quote:
I can't really argue with what your definition of "what Castlevania is", since removing at least most of those elements wouldn't make it Castlevania, but to me, there's a gameplay "spirit" as well. The level-based Castlevanias are good to me, not because of the music or the monsters (or the whip), but because of their meticulous level design. This is a visual thing, but mostly a gameplay one.
This sort of design doesn't translate especially well to 3D because you (by necessity) have larger areas to work with. Some games pull it off (Mario Galaxy and maybe Shinobi immediately come to mind), but I think taking a SoTN-type approach to the 3D Castlevania might create something truly epic if they can pull it off.
If you used the wider areas you see in 3D games as a basis for exploration...created a huge castle, instead of something level-based and combined environments that were fun to run around with epic boss battles, I think you could create a game that people would consider a classic for years to come (and reproduced the spirit of SoTN).
However, I think the reason we haven't seen a game like this is because (as I said earlier) you have to spend money to make money, and this would be a massive undertaking.
I hope that's everything...
Amen to that!
Fortes fortuna juvat...
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| Maese Spt 498th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Mon 8 Jun 17:20
It's amazing how much passion Castlevania arises on these latitudes...
I mostly agree with Dr. B's first paragraphs (I'm afraid I got lost on the rest of his rant), so I won't repeat myself.
But Polly has a point too. In fact, she has nailed it. It's not a question of new Castlevanias being 2D or 3D; it's a question of them being actually great games or not. And of course budget has a huge impact on this regard. Last time a Castlevania title was unanimously regarded as something really "big" was SotN. Like most of its ancestors, it really made an impact back in the time, marked a milestone for its platform and give the people something to remember. It was not such an innovative game itself, but it was a damn good one; that's why SotN is remembered to this day, while most other metroidvanias have fallen into oblivion.
After SotN, subsequent Castlevanias (be it in 2D or 3D) have been mere budget titles, fun to play but easy to forget about. Back in 8 and 16 bit era, even in 32 bit days thanks to SotN, pretty much each Castlevania marked a new milestone. Each iteration of the series was long awaited and much anticipated. Castlevania was something BIG. But it's not like that anymore. That's why I think Kojima's name could bring, as Polly said, a much needed attention (and budget) to the series.
Other than that, it should not be that difficult to make a decent 3D action game while staying faithful to the Castlevania legacy. Hell, whenever I play Ocarina of Time I can feel it's still the same good ol' Zelda I learned to love since the NES era. Revamped, expanded, improved, reinvented, polygonized... but the same thing all along. 3D don't necessarily kill old game formulas, if done right. That's the quid of the question: to do it right, to put the same effort and care into the game as you put before.
tl,dr: Konami should have given Castlevania a little more love, but it seems this time they're doing it right. At last.
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| IkariDC 769th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(6):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Tue 9 Jun 00:01
Polly: Wow, that was a very nice video, wouldn't mind if they would make an album of that kind. Also, buying their albums for just some songs, that's amazing! So, what about Takamizawa's solo works?
Back on topic:
quote:
That's why I think Kojima's name could bring, as Polly said, a much needed attention (and budget) to the series.
People seems to be confused, this is not a Hideo Kojima game. It seems he trusts the team behind the game and Kojima Productions is supporting them. I agree with you both that this is a great chance for them to make a good Castlevania game, with all the attention they're getting and all. Hopefully it would mean that future Castlevania games would benefit from this.
Also, as a Spanish team is behind it, I want them to make me proud!
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| HAYATO 907th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Castillovania FTW!!!" , posted Tue 9 Jun 03:39
quote:
Polly: Wow, that was a very nice video, wouldn't mind if they would make an album of that kind. Also, buying their albums for just some songs, that's amazing! So, what about Takamizawa's solo works?
Back on topic:
That's why I think Kojima's name could bring, as Polly said, a much needed attention (and budget) to the series.
People seems to be confused, this is not a Hideo Kojima game. It seems he trusts the team behind the game and Kojima Productions is supporting them. I agree with you both that this is a great chance for them to make a good Castlevania game, with all the attention they're getting and all. Hopefully it would mean that future Castlevania games would benefit from this.
Also, as a Spanish team is behind it, I want them to make me proud!
At last the mistery unveils!!! I heard about this game many months ago, back in the times when it was categorized as a kind of spin-off with no actual wheight on the franchise.
Now, it seems it's made its way into the official IP, and has earned the Castlevania title, a smart move which will bring greater attention to the series. In addition (and judging by what's shown on the trailer), it seems they finally decided to mimic the trendy GoW-esque 3rd person, hack'n slash action pattern which is what that franchise was screaming for since the middle 2000's...
Oh yeah, this time Castillovania is gonna be the bollocks!!! Go Belmonte, go!!!!
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| nobinobita 541th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Thu 11 Jun 15:46
quote:
Excellent point about Castlevania games being "generic 2D platformers", although I considered them more like "something that contributes to the standard for generic".
I don't think the NES Castlveanias are generic, I think they are iconic. To me Castlevania is about mood more than gameplay.
There were many platformers for the NES. The reason Castlevania stood out is because it had such a strong mood to it. Like everything you mentioned, the gothic tone and backgrounds, the supernatural monsters, the axes and skeletons all tied together with a hard rock sound track. I didn't even know what Gothic meant back then, but that's certainly how the game felt.
I think the real innovation that alot of NES games offered was an increased sense of immersion. Whereas the previous generation of home games were very graphically utilitarian and almost entirely symbolic, the NES had games where you could discern different art styles that provided different tones. They often had clear esthetic intent. It may be difficult to see today, now that we have more robust graphics standards, but back then Castlevania was a great, moody, engrossing experience. It had fun gameplay too of course, but I think the art direction played a huge role in the series' success and its place in gaming history.
I'm really looking forward to this new one, even if it wasn't meant to be a Castlevania game at first because it seems to have the right mood to it. The art direction is nice, and the monsters aren't stupid looking. They aren't typical, one note, game monsters. They seem to fit into the setting of a romantic and dangerous world, instead of looking like something that popped out of a middle schooler's notebook. They strike me as less generic and more iconic.
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| karasu99
156th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):The E3 Thread" , posted Tue 16 Jun 03:50
quote:
Excellent point about Castlevania games being "generic 2D platformers", although I considered them more like "something that contributes to the standard for generic".
Okay, after reading this on my phone for a week while on vacation, I can finally type an answer using a real keyboard! Hooray.
Yes, nobinobita, you've nailed a lot of the points I was really trying to get across, but that I failed miserably at trying to convey.
I guess my real point, and one that has been hit on already, is that the new 3D CV is exciting, yes, because overall 3D platformers have been steadily getting better. BUT! And here's my only but-- it would be a real shame if it ended up being a real stinker, and this is what the franchise ended up being reduced to. That said, I'm hopeful, since the media so far have been impressive enough.
As far as what makes a Castlevania game a Castlevania game (especially the older ones) I strongly agree with with the idea that mood is a lot of what it's about, but I'll also add that the style of the play mechanics play a significant role. Just like another of Konami's IP's of the era, Gradius, it's not just about the aesthetic, although I will say that Gradius is even more about game mechanics than Castlevania is. You'll notice that for both games, people who even casually know them consistently comment on some of their stranger design decisions-- like the Moai heads in Gradius and the flying medusa heads in Castlevania.
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| ONSLAUGHT 3811th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Bayonetta movelist" , posted Sun 21 Jun 19:51
quote:
Yeah, exactly, without any volume or versatility.
I'm sure there are other games with good whips, but right now I can't find any.... Maybe the Rygar remake could qualify, in a way?
I have the PS2 Rygar, but I don't remember any of it (the mark of an average game, I guess), besides it's 6 in the morning here and I can't sleep, I'm enjoying the rain.
Speaking of whips, I just finished Rondo of Blood on PSP (remake and original version) and while it is a very good game, personally, I think it is very overrated, was I expecting way too much of it? was a mistake to play SotN years prior to this? is it bad to think that it has clumsy controls and artificial difficulty but we are blinded by nostalgia? Am I a horrible person?
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| Pollyanna 2693th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Bayonetta movelist" , posted Tue 23 Jun 06:21
quote:
I have the PS2 Rygar, but I don't remember any of it (the mark of an average game, I guess), besides it's 6 in the morning here and I can't sleep, I'm enjoying the rain.
Speaking of whips, I just finished Rondo of Blood on PSP (remake and original version) and while it is a very good game, personally, I think it is very overrated, was I expecting way too much of it? was a mistake to play SotN years prior to this? is it bad to think that it has clumsy controls and artificial difficulty but we are blinded by nostalgia? Am I a horrible person?
All I remember about Rygar is:
1: It has a beautiful soundtrack that I don't think was ever released on CD.
2:I found it for 650 yen in Japan.
3: It had an invisible minotaur.
As for Rondo...I think it's fair for anyone to call it "overrated" since it has SO much hype, but I still think it's the best non-SOTN style Castlevania.
By "clumsy controls" do you mean the usual, old-school Castlevania... er..."sluggishness?" So it's more like your character is clumsy rather than the game is unresponsive? Is that what you mean by artificial difficulty as well? Like the game is only hard because your character is clumsy?
For people who aren't already fans of the older Castlevanias, I can see this as an immediate turnoff (thus the nostalgia factor).
I didn't play Rondo when I was young, but it's a game I appreciate more and more each time I play it. However, even though I think the game stands fairly well on its own merits, there is still a sense of "context" that makes me enjoy it more. Like considering when the game was made, I mean. In the same respect, I wasn't impressed with the Metroid series as a kid, but in context of when it was made I think it's pretty impressive now.
For the record, what are some of your favorite "retro" action games as a point of comparison? (this goes for everyone else as well)
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| ONSLAUGHT 3812th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Bayonetta movelist" , posted Tue 23 Jun 07:25
quote:
As for Rondo...I think it's fair for anyone to call it "overrated" since it has SO much hype, but I still think it's the best non-SOTN style Castlevania.
By "clumsy controls" do you mean the usual, old-school Castlevania... er..."sluggishness?" So it's more like your character is clumsy rather than the game is unresponsive? Is that what you mean by artificial difficulty as well? Like the game is only hard because your character is clumsy?
For people who aren't already fans of the older Castlevanias, I can see this as an immediate turnoff (thus the nostalgia factor).
I didn't play Rondo when I was young, but it's a game I appreciate more and more each time I play it. However, even though I think the game stands fairly well on its own merits, there is still a sense of "context" that makes me enjoy it more. Like considering when the game was made, I mean. In the same respect, I wasn't impressed with the Metroid series as a kid, but in context of when it was made I think it's pretty impressive now.
For the record, what are some of your favorite "retro" action games as a point of comparison? (this goes for everyone else as well)
Yeah, that's what I mean about clumsy controls, the way the character moves. Don't get me wrong, I used to love the old school Castlevanias, they were some of my favorite games back in the day, and I still think they have some of the best soundtracks/graphics/settings ever. But let's be fair, we are somewhat blinded by nostalgia, the old school Castlevanias were never THAT good, honestly, I don't know how the heck I could finish those games CV 1 to 3 back then... Same thing happened with Battletoads; I finished the game when I was a kid, but I tried to play it a few years back, and damn it, I got irritated with its difficulty and gave up. Were we so patient/masochist in our childhood? How come we could finish crap/hard/boring as hell games and play them over and over after that? Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think I could enjoy many games from the past as I did when I was young (heck I loved Bugs Bunny Birthday Blowout and I leave it as a happy memory).
Megaman is an exception to this, because I can go back to them always, and of course, the Marios.
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| Pollyanna 2694th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):Bayonetta movelist" , posted Fri 26 Jun 09:49
quote:
Yeah, that's what I mean about clumsy controls, the way the character moves. Don't get me wrong, I used to love the old school Castlevanias, they were some of my favorite games back in the day, and I still think they have some of the best soundtracks/graphics/settings ever. But let's be fair, we are somewhat blinded by nostalgia, the old school Castlevanias were never THAT good, honestly, I don't know how the heck I could finish those games CV 1 to 3 back then... Same thing happened with Battletoads; I finished the game when I was a kid, but I tried to play it a few years back, and damn it, I got irritated with its difficulty and gave up. Were we so patient/masochist in our childhood? How come we could finish crap/hard/boring as hell games and play them over and over after that? Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think I could enjoy many games from the past as I did when I was young (heck I loved Bugs Bunny Birthday Blowout and I leave it as a happy memory).
Megaman is an exception to this, because I can go back to them always, and of course, the Marios.
I would agree that CV 1-3 on NES are pretty unplayable today. About a year ago, I thought "You know, I never got through CV3...I should try it again" and it was a huge mistake. The X68000 Castlevania/Castlevania Chronicles holds up a little better, though.
I'm actually not much of a retro game enthusiast and I don't care much for nostalgia, either...but I do appreciate the tight level design of some older games. Still, there's always the question of "Was this ever really good?" that may be better left unanswered.
I don't think Battletoads was EVER good, though. I have argued against that game for as long as I can remember, and I'm convinced that people only defend it as a joke now.
But the old Megaman games still hold up well? Like...without nostalgia goggles? I've always been wary. I was never much of a Megaman fan, but I really enjoyed 9 because it was so meticulously designed. Is there one in particular you would recommend? Usually people say 2?
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Maou 1691th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Rondo: what a horrible night to have a curse" , posted Fri 26 Jun 10:49:
quote:
Yeah, that's what I mean about clumsy controls, the way the character moves. But let's be fair, we are somewhat blinded by nostalgia, the old school Castlevanias were never THAT good, honestly, I don't know how the heck I could finish those games CV 1 to 3 back then...
If we don't talk about the Dracula series in every ten threads, there is a problem. Thanks, Onsy!
Like Polly says, context matters a lot for evaluating old works of any medium, and I think that if you evaluate the game as a platformer in the mid-nineties on a new CD system, it's hard to not find it to be pretty impressive. Does The Seven Samurai "suck" because it's not as epically shot as the modern The Lord of the Rings? I doubt it. I'm almost as tired of the internet-ism of "it's so overrated" as I am of the internet's tendency to overrate. For me, Rondo is a damn fine 2D platformer by any measure, which may or may not be enjoyable in this day and age depending on one's sensibilities and attitude towards challenge, especially considering that---in my view of course---games have become a great deal too easy, from idiotic, unskippable tutorials to instant respawn and quicksaves and the assumption that everyone is going to survive to see the ending.
In any event, these old games are hard in that they don't give you as many "tools" as we are now used to, in terms of control possiblities, move lists, and the babying measures mentioned above, but Richter functions incredibly well within Rondo's own mechanics and environment. What I mean is, Rondo's controls are frustrating if you wanted a Nocturne/Symphony version of Richter, but in the game's own context, Richter controls well relative to the tasks that he must complete. He can jump, attack, move, and so on in a way that enables a skilled player to succeed without feeling like the game is cheap. That said, I can totally see being bummed to find that Richter in Rondo isn't as kickass awesome to control as he is in Nocturne/Symphony in the prelude, where he's just a joy. I'd love to have that kind of control in a proper 2D, non-Metroidvania sequel.
For my own context, lest I sound like a grumbling oldschooler (though this may be true, except I became one in reverse: here's how): the first Dracula game I ever played was the Playstation one! How about that! I loved that game's atmosphere and was keyed up to play the old platformers, creaky or no, and ended up loving them for their atmosphere, music, difficulty, and all the other things that were praised in the last Dracula binge on the randomthread.
quote:
I would agree that CV 1-3 on NES are pretty unplayable today. About a year ago, I thought "You know, I never got through CV3...I should try it again" and it was a huge mistake.
Interesting, I'm surprised to hear, Polly. 2 might be unplaybe, but the first and third are outstanding in my book. I was just playing the third the other night and finally made progress for the first time. Great design, great music, incredibly lush and sophisticated for a simple 8-bit FC game. I'd call that a sign that it's held up, given that I didn't play it during its own time and still was impressed at the game given its hardware and historical setting.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 26 Jun 11:15] |
| Pollyanna 2696th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):Rondo: what a horrible night to have a " , posted Fri 26 Jun 17:30
quote:
Interesting, I'm surprised to hear, Polly. 2 might be unplaybe, but the first and third are outstanding in my book. I was just playing the third the other night and finally made progress for the first time. Great design, great music, incredibly lush and sophisticated for a simple 8-bit FC game. I'd call that a sign that it's held up, given that I didn't play it during its own time and still was impressed at the game given its hardware and historical setting.
After the X68000 remake, I can't enjoy NES CV1 anymore. That might be my problem, not the game's, though. I think 2 is an okay game in its "historical context", but yeah...can't enjoy it now.
But 3...really? I didn't know it was thought of as a good Castlevania. Is it just impossibly difficult? I've never been so bad at a game since Soul Calibur. Most Castlevania games are either "mildly challenging" or "slightly easy" for me...but CV3 is just a disaster. If I keep suffering, will the pain turn into pleasure?
"Finally made progress" sounds both discouraging and encouraging at the same time...
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Toxico 4753th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(1):Rondo: what a horrible night to have a" , posted Fri 26 Jun 21:46:
quote:
I would agree that CV 1-3 on NES are pretty unplayable today. About a year ago, I thought "You know, I never got through CV3...I should try it again" and it was a huge mistake. Interesting, I'm surprised to hear, Polly. 2 might be unplaybe, but the first and third are outstanding in my book.
Actually, 1 was thought of as an extremely easy game in it's year (it was much more nicer than other of plataformers of those years) (I even remember saying something like "you can't clear anything? play Castlevania 1 or Ninja Gaiden 2") . 2 Had certain weird puzzles that where completely unsolvable without help from a magazine or something, and I have still nightmares about them (Even to this day, whenever I find myself with an "unanswerable" question I think to myself "Damned castlevania 2".)
"1" had charisma and "shine", that's why it became really popular.
"2" had a different charisma and perhaps less "shine", that's why a bunch of people liked 1 over 2.
Now "3"... Three had the big merit of.... almost completely changing the game at some points, depending on what character was your helper. It wasn't like mario or megaman or sonic, where "Choosing another route" was "the same mario / rockman / sonic" facing a different stage. With a different helper you could access other areas in other ways, it really gave the feeling of approaching the game in a different manner (that fact alone could keep players playing the game over and over again). Even in now days, few games achieve the sense of "truly changing the game course" due to your actions.
Also, "3" had a charisma and "shine" that where pretty close to those of "1", and as thus due to it's options and methods; it was popular alike with every castlevania fan.
EDIT : I realized that I have a copy of Castlevania 3 2 steps away from me... Funny thing.
quote:
For the record, what are some of your favorite "retro" action games as a point of comparison? (this goes for everyone else as well)
I think you are judging too harshly, now that many consoles are "over" one can truly look at it and say something like (for example) "that game, really "overdid" the NES". Where as in graphics, music, pacing, length, style; there are always game out there that pretty much push the platform to it's limit, and that manage to be enjoyable and leave a certain type of mark on you.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 08/05/09 (99 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Fri 26 Jun 21:49] |
| Maou 1692th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(2):what a horrible night to have a curse" , posted Sat 27 Jun 00:15:
quote:
After the X68000 remake, I can't enjoy NES CV1 anymore. That might be my problem, not the game's, though.
Interesting, and fair, given how great the remake's music is. Oddly enough, though, despite the similarities of the games, I'm always put off by X68000's second level with the tiresome green goo you have to slice through. The barriers actually create a barrier in my mind to playing the whole rest of the game, and make me want to cruise through 1 instead.
quote:
But 3...really? I didn't know it was thought of as a good Castlevania. If I keep suffering, will the pain turn into pleasure?
Ha, really? Akumajou Densetsu/"III" is probably the best-loved next to Rondo, from what I know. It's just so...epic. The pain definitely becomes pleasure, I promise. I mean, even the pain of losing as I couldn't clear level 3 was assuaged by the wonderful "Wicked Child" song there, and I evnetually made it up through 6 or so last I played. I think it helps a lot once you get through 3 or so and get a partner. Grant Danesti controls like a more modern Belmont with his adjustable jumps, and Alucard cleans out enemies decently well. I think my fortunes in that game improved a lot once I finally got to Grant.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sat 27 Jun 00:19] |
| karasu99
160th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(3):what a horrible night to have a curse" , posted Sat 27 Jun 03:01
And I am compelled, as if by some horrible curse, to reply at least once to every CV-related thread... sigh.
quote:
Akumajou Densetsu/"III" is probably the best-loved next to Rondo, from what I know. It's just so...epic. The pain definitely becomes pleasure, I promise.
I will second this, and suggest that it's one of those games (the NES seemed to be a locus for this) where you had to almost develop a muscle memory for the way the game needs to be played, but that at the start is almost torturous in its apparent difficulty. Back when it came out, I can remember the Nintendo Power maps of what was coming up in later levels being one of the only things that kept me playing. When I bought the game for the Wii a while back I was pleasantly surprised to find that not only did I remember the levels and techniques, but I had actually improved somewhat.
Something else I also enjoyed about it was its early use of multiple paths. I don't recall many other games doing that on the NES. It was like a bugger, fancier CV1.
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| ONSLAUGHT 3818th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Richtaaaaa!" , posted Sat 27 Jun 13:10:
quote:
But the idea is that we can damn Rondo unfairly for not having the complex control schemes and low difficulty of modern games and it would be the same as unfairly denegrating an "old" film like Seven Samurai because it lacks some of the accoutrements of newer filmmaking technology. All of this was with the implicit meaning that the seemingly "creaky, difficult, and old" work was in fact at least if not more impressive, I assure you!
You're making it sound like Rondo is the be all end all of hard games and every new game is super easy compared to the games of old days. Rondo is not a bad game, it has great music, graphics, setting... but it's not that fun. I finished the game, and there's only one way to finish it, and that's memorizing everything and turning yourself into a robot like being with preprogrammed reflexes. When you get through all the shit the games throw at you you eventually get good at it, and finish the levels you thought were impossible at first, but how is it that a game becomes fun just after countless hours of frustration? I don't need a game to kick my ass again and again just to reward me with fun at the end! A game needs to be fun from beginning to end, it doesn't have to almost give me a heart attack with frustration (that's what a job and its respective boss is for) with the hope that it might get fun after I master it. I understand your point, and I know the Castlevanias are not bad, I enjoy them, but they're not as good as I thought they were when I was a kid.
[this message was edited by ONSLAUGHT on Sat 27 Jun 13:17] |
| Pollyanna 2697th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):Richtaaaaa!" , posted Sat 27 Jun 17:24
quote:
You're making it sound like Rondo is the be all end all of hard games and every new game is super easy compared to the games of old days. Rondo is not a bad game, it has great music, graphics, setting... but it's not that fun. I finished the game, and there's only one way to finish it, and that's memorizing everything and turning yourself into a robot like being with preprogrammed reflexes.
I can't argue with your experience with the game, but I can say that mine was different. Actually, one of the big reasons why I liked Rondo is because I didn't feel like it required me to memorize anything.
I'm not really very good at video games compared to a lot of people, but I pretty much breezed through Rondo...the first time and every time since. I guess something about it just "clicked".
I have a friend who plays Metal Slug and Contra, two series that I can't play to save my life. I say "it requires too much memorization". He said "it's more about recognizing "patterns" so that you have an idea what to expect, rather than memorizing what actually is going to happen." Incidentally, he found Rondo to be "full of mean tricks that you have to memorize".
But even within the Castlevania series, my experience differs. For me, CV4 flip-flopped between being stupidly easy and hitting me with a surprise death or situation I couldn't immediately figure out.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Maou 1694th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):Richtaaaaa!" , posted Sat 27 Jun 21:34:
quote:
I think he was just quoting Dracula.
Oh Onsy, you're just a pile of secrets!
And yeah, it may just be a difference of what you like in terms of games right now. Rondo is definitely one of the easier Draculas, and like most good games in the series, it's hard but not cheap in that your guy has the skills to do well within his own environment, though said environment is full of challenges. Maybe a stray Medusa head or two will trap you aggrevatingly, but otherwise, this is an entirely fair game.
I wouldn't call the series less good because it's harder than modern games (and I do find the wimpification of modern games to be pretty clear). Personally, I'm more happy when I'm being challenged by a game, in that getting to the end as you suggest isn't when I have fun so much as when I'm in the process of skirting death and occasionally dying. But I could definitely see how you could enjoy the tension from youthful gaming less over time. Just play what's fun! So... WII FIT FOR YOU
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sat 27 Jun 22:03] |
| sfried 377th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(1):Richtaaaaa!" , posted Sun 28 Jun 16:16
quote:
You're making it sound like Rondo is the be all end all of hard games and every new game is super easy compared to the games of old days. Rondo is not a bad game, it has great music, graphics, setting... but it's not that fun. I finished the game, and there's only one way to finish it, and that's memorizing everything and turning yourself into a robot like being with preprogrammed reflexes. When you get through all the shit the games throw at you you eventually get good at it, and finish the levels you thought were impossible at first, but how is it that a game becomes fun just after countless hours of frustration? I don't need a game to kick my ass again and again just to reward me with fun at the end!
I admitt Rondo was hard, but not unmanageable. The best way to enjoy it is in bite-szied pieces, and this is perhaps why I think the save system works so well with this game: You can comeplete it at your own pace. Not at all like a robot.
Perhaps you were aiming to get the best ending in one sitting? Part of the experience is enjoying a regular run and then replaying it to see where you might have goofed off. This isn't technically a "play to win" kind of game where your execution has to be flawless against some experienced player, but rather good enough against the games A.I. (or rather scripting). Seeing yourself get the hang of certain nuances of the game is part of the appeal, not to mention Rondo is chalk full of secrets for a Classicvania game. I take it you read some guides to complete it, because it's not easy to grasp everything if you were fresh to the game as I was.
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| Spoon 1772th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(2):Richtaaaaa!" , posted Sun 28 Jun 17:41
Contra Shattered Soldier epitomized the memorization style: at first everything is impossible, and then once you know the tricks, it's really not that hard at all.
In spite of that, I really liked Shattered Soldier. I can't say that it's the best Contra game, and the near total lack of non-memorization platforming sequences definitely bugged me, but I still had a lot of fun with it. Trying to unlock the Contra Dog ending cutscene (which is kind of funny... I guess) really did require you to play like a robot, though: you had to hit 100% of all targets (not that hard), and also not die once in a single run through of the game (hard to do even when you know all the tricks, because it's easy to slip up or get sloppy).
Speaking of old and hard games that may or may not require excessive training to succeed at, what do you people think about the various Ghosts n Goblins games?
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| Spoon 1773th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(4):Richtaaaaa!" , posted Mon 29 Jun 05:21
quote:
Speaking of old and hard games that may or may not require excessive training to succeed at, what do you people think about the various Ghosts n Goblins games?
I never played it much, but the Makaimura series always struck me as the evil and possibly less intelligent cousin of the Dracula series, also filled with monsters (but less iconic) and challenges (but less fair). Just looking at the furious streams of enemies who attack your guy, it seems like there's less of a Dracula emphasis on having your limited skill set fit within a corresponding environment, such that killing enemies is almost like a one-on-one fighting game as you face off, and more like Contra. Come to think of it, Makaimura almost seems like danmaku (bullet hell): the platformer. Others may love it more, though?
oh ffs my browser didn't send the post I made
point summary:
- Red Arremer felt like a duel
- CV is better looking and better sounding and will likely always be that way
- CV had bunches of sequels that were willing to tinker a bit with the formula, and sometimes backpedal on the changes in subsequent sequels, which I wish Makaimura could've done
- Makaimura not having a lifebar was part of its flavour, but I wonder if it would've been more easily enjoyable had it used a lifebar.
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| Pollyanna 2698th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Richtaaaaa!" , posted Mon 29 Jun 06:59
quote:
Speaking of old and hard games that may or may not require excessive training to succeed at, what do you people think about the various Ghosts n Goblins games?
Haven't played the first one in years and years. When I was a kid, it was too hard for me...my mom had to win it for me. Hahaha...
Dai Maikaimura/Ghouls and Ghosts is my favorite. It's frantic and terribly challenging, but manageable.
Super is...a game I always wanted to like, but could never make any progress with. It has an amazing atmosphere, and it still looks great to me. The levels are inventive too, but my attempts to play it always end in frustration. Or rather, I've never had the determination to finish it. In a way, you're more empowered than the second game, but as the formula became more complex it also became harder for me to play.
The PSP game was okay. It got the atmosphere right and it was reasonably challenging, but I felt like they didn't quite pull it off. Like sometimes it was frustrating in the wrong way. I guess it felt like another team doing a decent approximation of something good?
If you want to count the Maximo games, I enjoyed them as well, but wished they captured the environment of the original a bit better. Still, I'm not a fan of 3D platformers much at all, so the games must've been good if I bothered to go through both of them?
If we're comparing to Castlevania, I guess I like the goofy halloweeny environment of Makaimura just as much (if not more) and I appreciate the frantic "running for your life" feel that so many parts of the games have. Castlevania is a bit slower and less "crowded with enemies", so you feel like you're picking things apart a bit more. Makaimura is like...I dunno...running through a mass of man eating crows, crying and beating them off frantically.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| karasu99
161th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(5):Richtaaaaa!" , posted Tue 30 Jun 01:43
quote:
point summary:
- Red Arremer felt like a duel
- CV is better looking and better sounding and will likely always be that way
- CV had bunches of sequels that were willing to tinker a bit with the formula, and sometimes backpedal on the changes in subsequent sequels, which I wish Makaimura could've done
- Makaimura not having a lifebar was part of its flavour, but I wonder if it would've been more easily enjoyable had it used a lifebar.
Funny that we end up talking about two of my favorite series in comparison, and even funnier that two of favorite series have a very similar Halloween-ish vibe. I wonder what that says about me?
Anyway, I find it pretty hard to pit these two against each other. Even the soundtracks are comparably awesome. For one thing, the first Makaimura and the first CV are tough to compare given that CV was on a far inferior platform (NES) than Makaimura (ARC), at least graphically. I always thought Makaimura was harder because of the constant nature of the enemies-- it's like every level is the clock tower.
You could always make the argument that weapon-wise, Makaimura is CV with infinite sub-weapons, but I think that's a little silly. I guess I still have to think a little on the comparison of these two and post some more later.
Oh, and Spoon, a lifebar was (sortof) attempted in Goku Makaimura, by giving the different armors different values and displaying them onscreen. I think it's the onscreen display that makes it different psychologically, because technically even the one hit armor is a lifebar of sorts.
One last CV comment-- played Dracula's Curse for the first time in at least 15 years last night. I was amazed to find that even though the medusa heads are almost identical in just about all the 2d games, they updated them to a completely jarring detailed version in DC! Weird, just weird.
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| Maou 1695th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(6):Alucaaaaard" , posted Tue 30 Jun 10:45
quote:
One last CV comment-- played Dracula's Curse for the first time in at least 15 years last night. I was amazed to find that even though the medusa heads are almost identical in just about all the 2d games, they updated them to a completely jarring detailed version in DC! Weird, just weird.
But don't worry, they'll still knock you to your doom, detailed or no. I FINALLY cleared stage 7 (underground mine version...wish I'd been at the gates version instead) for the first time last night. I must have suffered through that falling block sequence about 10 times, and all of this because I took the route to get Alucard, who I wish I hadn't taken to replace Grant anyway, who can actually jump properly. It's been a fun beating, though.
I still like the one-on-one feeling to Dracula games that I think Polly first mentioned. I was facing off against a skeleton knight (just one) at the top of the stairs and it reminded me that each enemy is out to duel with you in a thoughtful way...it is the anti-Contra. Which is probably why I'll never play Makaimura even though if 'enemy hell' is in a shooter, I think it's great. All Ikaruga all the time, here.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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"Re(1):Bayonetta movelist" , posted Sun 21 Jun 04:32
