Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CVS 3. - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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kofoguz
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"Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CVS 3." , posted Tue 20 Jan 03:55post reply

This link says so
There's a rumor started by Kotaku, and as spreading over the net, I would like to know what are the odds? So I brought the discussion here.
If the rumor worthless you can kill the thread as you like.





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karasu99
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"Re(1):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 04:11post reply

quote:
This link says so
There's a rumor started by Kotaku, and as spreading over the net, I would like to know what are the odds? So I brought the discussion here.
If the rumor worthless you can kill the thread as you like.



My question would be: how likely is it that demand generated by western fans would sway Capcom to continue the series? I know that we would all certainly play it, but I suspect that we represent the tiniest fraction of fighting game enthusiasts, which in itself is certainly a tiny crowd compared to the crowd playing Madden, let's say.

As for the Japanese audience of such a game, I can't really say.

I'd love to see CVS3 of course.





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"Re(1):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 04:31post reply

quote:
This link says so
There's a rumor started by Kotaku, and as spreading over the net, I would like to know what are the odds? So I brought the discussion here.
If the rumor worthless you can kill the thread as you like.


I don't believe anything Mr. Ono says.





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"Re(2):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 04:41post reply

quote:
My question would be: how likely is it that demand generated by western fans would sway Capcom to continue the series? I know that we would all certainly play it, but I suspect that we represent the tiniest fraction of fighting game enthusiasts

I think the west has the biggest number of fans of the Capcom fighting games... but SNK's are in Asia (minus Japan), and I don't think most of them liked the CvS series.

Also, if they ever do a CvS3, I don't think they could/would hire enough talented dotters to build upon CvS2's engine and sprites - it would mean a 3D game, and unless they re-use most of SF4's engine, it would mean a tiny roster such as Tatsunoko's.
Would people be interested in a remake of CvS1 in 3D ? I'm not sure. Would people care about a CvS2+12 new characters (half of them being 15 years old sprites from SFZero or 3) in 2010 ? Doubtful as well.

Ono always answers what the interviewer wants to hear. Nothing to see here, at least for now.





kofoguz
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"Re(3):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 04:58post reply

quote:
Optimistic Post by Iggy.

Unfortunately that makes sense. But the part interested me was possibility of SVC2. But I always welcome NGBC2.





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"Re(3):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 05:01post reply

quote:
Also, if they ever do a CvS3, I don't think they could/would hire enough talented dotters to build upon CvS2's engine and sprites - it would mean a 3D game, and unless they re-use most of SF4's engine, it would mean a tiny roster such as Tatsunoko's.
Would people be interested in a remake of CvS1 in 3D ? I'm not sure. Would people care about a CvS2+12 new characters (half of them being 15 years old sprites from SFZero or 3) in 2010 ? Doubtful as well.



I agree. CvS was nice (although quite incomplete) and CvS2 was awesome, but I just can't see CvS3 happening...

I don't know if I'd be interested in it, as well. Unless it managed to be a better game than SFIV and KoF XII.





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"Re(4):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 05:11post reply

quote:
But I always welcome NGBC2.


Speaking of which, a lot of people are intrigued by the fact SNKP calls KOF98UM and 02UM the "UM series".
It may just mean "there are two games, that's a series for you", but some people went mad speculating what other UM game they could do (KOF 2001 or XI UM, with the system of the original game and all the characters from 02UM, for example).
And now, a few of them (us?) want a Nejibako UM (where "UM" would just mean "lots of copipe under the supervision of Neogeo Hakase"), and that would be awesome.
One thing is certain : I think NO ONE wants a SvC Chaos UM.





kofoguz
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"Re(5):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 05:25post reply

quote:
Speaking of which, a lot of people are intrigued by the fact SNKP calls KOF98UM and 02UM the "UM series".
It may just mean "there are two games, that's a series for you", but some people went mad speculating what other UM game they could do (KOF 2001 or XI UM, with the system of the original game and all the characters from 02UM, for example).
And now, a few of them (us?) want a Nejibako UM (where "UM" would just mean "lots of copipe under the supervision of Neogeo Hakase"), and that would be awesome.
One thing is certain : I think NO ONE wants a SvC Chaos UM.


Well, If you consider Tenka as UM... Btw I do want a lot of remake's under the supervision of Neogeo Hakase.

But I do want another chance for SVC, at least in the new style. Thinking of what magic they did for KoF classics in KOFXII, (chin, kensou, joe especially) one cant help dreaming.





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"Re(6):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 05:41post reply

quote:
Ono always answers what the interviewer wants to hear. Nothing to see here, at least for now.


I thought this had been well understood by everyone by now. Ono is impressively amicable in person and will always remain nice, positive and open about any topic driven by the interviewers - however how far-fetched and detached from reality it can be. He is the polar opposite of this situation.

- How awesome is my suggestion mr Ono?
- So awesome.





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"Re(5):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 06:16post reply

quote:
But I always welcome NGBC2.

Speaking of which, a lot of people are intrigued by the fact SNKP calls KOF98UM and 02UM the "UM series".
It may just mean "there are two games, that's a series for you", but some people went mad speculating what other UM game they could do (KOF 2001 or XI UM, with the system of the original game and all the characters from 02UM, for example).
And now, a few of them (us?) want a Nejibako UM (where "UM" would just mean "lots of copipe under the supervision of Neogeo Hakase"), and that would be awesome.
One thing is certain : I think NO ONE wants a SvC Chaos UM.



I think SNKP was quite tired enough of the whole Nejibako testing thing.

Personally I think the time is ripe for a Fuun Super Tag UM. Think of it, finally they can add all the original characters! And being UM they will also add random AoF2 characters! Because they're the only sprites that were the right size!





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"Re(1):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 06:21post reply

quote:
This link says so
There's a rumor started by Kotaku, and as spreading over the net, I would like to know what are the odds? So I brought the discussion here.
If the rumor worthless you can kill the thread as you like.



its kotaku, need we say more?





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"Re(3):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 06:23post reply

quote:
it would mean a 3D game, and unless they re-use most of SF4's engine, it would mean a tiny roster such as Tatsunoko's.



Wouldn't TvC box office success put a big strain on anything but SF2^2 ver 2 coming out from capcom's pocket?
Also isn't Capcom in a decent business position right now, where they can make the most of 3d side scrollers or any other series instead of fighting games? And or looking at racking budget from movies & anime series from their games? (I'm actually asking, I have no idea about these accounts).

If both of the previous statements are correct, then the need of a big seller obviously comes from SNK's side (And aren't they somewhat confident in their 2 upcoming titles?). Not to mention that isn't the company in actual danger if their next year releases bomb badly?







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"Re(4):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 07:22post reply

quote:
Wouldn't TvC box office success put a big strain on anything but SF2^2 ver 2 coming out from capcom's pocket?

That might actually be an argument in favor of a new CvS. After all, the Capcom side of CvS1 was all SF2+Cammy, Sakura and Gki (all of them already in SF4, by the way). Oh, and Morrigan.
A brand new CvS would allow them to create yet another game with these same 12 popular characters over again, and with a setting and system different from SF2HD and SF4.





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"Re(5):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 07:53post reply

I was thinking the same thing today at work, about CvS 3 stated by Ono: so it isn't strange to hear something.
Ono himself is hyped about his very project, nothing more.

But if it turns out to be real it'd be better a joint project with snk: a 3D game with SF4 engine and a 2D one with XII engine.





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"Re(5):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 08:11post reply

quote:

That might actually be an argument in favor of a new CvS. After all, the Capcom side of CvS1 was all SF2+Cammy, Sakura and Gki (all of them already in SF4, by the way). Oh, and Morrigan.
A brand new CvS would allow them to create yet another game with these same 12 popular characters over again, and with a setting and system different from SF2HD and SF4.



This is what I was thinking. Since the SF4 renders look pretty good for what they are, I thought Capcom might be looking for an excuse to plug them into something else.

I could always use another fighting game with a frustrating lack of characters I'm interested in!





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"Re(6):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 08:52post reply

I'm not surprised. Ono probably said or will say the same thing about a new Vampire Savior, MvC, Wii port of SFIV, cooking dinner, cleaning your room, and doing your laundry.

I'm not complaining. I think his fandom is great since it is one of the main reasons SFIV exists.

As for CvS 3 jjust like many said here I imagine Capcom will first do a CVS before snk does SVC since the cast of capcom's side could be reused "polygons" from SFIV. Snk needs some time to flesh out their HD sprites roster from KOF and possibly Sam Sho and other serieses.





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"Re(7):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 10:53post reply

quote:
I'm not surprised. Ono probably said or will say the same thing about a new Vampire Savior



He already did. During an interview with EGM last year (Jan 08 issue) he said:

"...I'd [also] like to see the triumphant return of Darkstalkers to a new generation of technology. It would be an interesting challenge with Darkstalkers, because in the old games you'd see a lot of really interesting animations as characters would morph into different forms. That would be tricky to do with this 3D engine, but not impossible. In two or three years, if I got the chance to resurrect that series, I'd like to shock Hollywood with how good the graphics would look."

The [also] is there because he initially said he'd like to make another MvC game. So he wants to make additional games for Vampire, MvC, and now CvS. Oh and he also plans to release Godfather IV and an eight Harry Potter book.





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"Re(8):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 11:39post reply

quote:
I'm not surprised. Ono probably said or will say the same thing about a new Vampire Savior


He already did. During an interview with EGM last year (Jan 08 issue) he said:

"...I'd [also] like to see the triumphant return of Darkstalkers to a new generation of technology. It would be an interesting challenge with Darkstalkers, because in the old games you'd see a lot of really interesting animations as characters would morph into different forms. That would be tricky to do with this 3D engine, but not impossible. In two or three years, if I got the chance to resurrect that series, I'd like to shock Hollywood with how good the graphics would look."

The [also] is there because he initially said he'd like to make another MvC game. So he wants to make additional games for Vampire, MvC, and now CvS. Oh and he also plans to release Godfather IV and an eight Harry Potter book.



A Godfather vs Harry Potter game would be ace. Dual wielding wands!





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"Re(9):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 19:42post reply

quote:
A Godfather vs Harry Potter game would be ace. Dual wielding wands!



Now THAT would be an unexpected crossover...





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"Re(1):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Tue 20 Jan 20:15post reply

A non-SD 3D remake of SvC:MotM and I'd be happy - anything else they'd add on top of that (more characters - even if just the ones that were in the other crossover games - , alternate costumes - FFWA Mr Karate Ryo! -, etc...) would be a nice perk.

I wonder how reusable 3D models (or the involved coordinates/calculations/textures/whatever) from different games are to make a different game... From Capcom there's SF4 and TvC, from SNK there's the KoF:MI series and SS Sen in the very least.

The idea of a SvC UM doesn't bother me, far from it, but between the sprite style that's being deprecated and licensing issues I'm not sure it's possible - but NGBC getting that treatment sounds good to me, and seems particularly viable considering the sub-bosses they added in KoFXI, like Silber and Hayate.





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"Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make C" , posted Tue 20 Jan 20:16post reply

BADASS Vs SNK 3

...

This thread made me remember the golden years of fighting game forums, before Dimps made SF2 3D.

"I want GUILTY GEAR X high resolution sprites with STREET FIGHTER THREE animation"

Yeah, Capcom could reuse all those polygons. And then SNK would spend a whole year just to create high resolution sprites for the Capcom cast. It is very likely. And the boss would be Orochi Gouken. Or Evil Athena!





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"Re(8):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Wed 21 Jan 00:04:post reply

I agree with everybody regarding Ono's total lack of credibility, but actually I think Darkstalkers would benefit GREATLY from SFIV's graphic engine. Look at all those cartoonesque deformations and effects, it's almost like they've created the whole graphic environment on purpose for a future Darkstalkers game!





[this message was edited by Maese Spt on Wed 21 Jan 00:53]

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"Re(9):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Wed 21 Jan 04:57post reply

quote:
I agree with everybody regarding Ono's total lack of credibility, but actually I think Darkstalkers would benefit GREATLY from SFIV's graphic engine. Look at all those cartoonesque deformations and effects, it's almost like they've created the whole graphic environment on purpose for a future Darkstalkers game!

For too long 3D fighters have been concerned with shoving as much graphic power as possible onto the screen and with creating impossibly perfect breasts. I'm not knocking either of those worthy endeavors but I'm glad to see that SF4 is allowing 3D fighters to move in new directions. Even if a new Darkstalkers game doesn't materialize I'm still curious to see what future 3D fighters will do with more creative presentations and the ability to pull them off.





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"Re(9):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make CV" , posted Thu 22 Jan 04:24post reply

quote:
I agree with everybody regarding Ono's total lack of credibility, but actually I think Darkstalkers would benefit GREATLY from SFIV's graphic engine. Look at all those cartoonesque deformations and effects, it's almost like they've created the whole graphic environment on purpose for a future Darkstalkers game!



They've got to do something else with the SF4 engine. Capcom definitely knows how to milk the cow. I wonder if a new Rival Schools could happen?





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"Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could make C" , posted Thu 22 Jan 05:33post reply

I would like Rival Schools on the SF4 engine.
But actually I would prefer CapvSNK3 with sprites like the new high def KOF title. I'd love to see a fresh take on all of the Capcom characters, and I'd like them to include more Darkstalkers characters and those other Warzard characters too!





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"Re(2):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could " , posted Thu 22 Jan 07:58post reply

Why won't Capcom and SNK end the fuck buddy relationship and just hurry up and get married





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"Re(3):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Thu 22 Jan 16:34post reply

quote:
Why won't Capcom and SNK end the fuck buddy relationship and just hurry up and get married



Because both of them are dead!!

C'mon, it's time to admit it: all of us here are worshipping a pair of corpses!!! Stop paying heed to that Ono necromancer, things won't return to what they used to be!!!!

Fellow cafers, just follow my example and let things go their natural way. If you love those franchises, don't torture yourselves pointlessly by asking for new installments, just assume they won't ever return in their former glory and leave them behind. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather see them dead than bastardized ad nauseam for quick bucks.

Please Maese, If you love Darkstalkers, leave them stalking from the Dark... forever.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Thu 22 Jan 16:59post reply

quote:

C'mon, it's time to admit it: all of us here are worshipping a pair of corpses!!! Stop paying heed to that Ono necromancer, things won't return to what they used to be!!!!



Necromancers are the most badass spell-wielders around. They need to add one to the next Darkstalkers game.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Thu 22 Jan 18:41post reply

quote:
Because both of them are dead!!

C'mon, it's time to admit it: all of us here are worshipping a pair of corpses!!!

Truest words ever spoken in 2009.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Thu 22 Jan 19:16post reply

quote:

Please Maese, If you love Darkstalkers, leave them stalking from the Dark... forever.



But I don't love Darkstalkers... I don't even like it!





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"Re(4):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 01:51post reply

quote:
Why won't Capcom and SNK end the fuck buddy relationship and just hurry up and get married


Because both of them are dead!!

C'mon, it's time to admit it: all of us here are worshipping a pair of corpses!!! Stop paying heed to that Ono necromancer, things won't return to what they used to be!!!!


I'm pretty much a pessimist when it comes to everything in life. I KNOW that the fighting game community won't be it's mid-to-late-90's self again. Still, when something like SFIV actually happens when no one thought it would, and then it actually turns out to be good which also wasn't expected, you can't help but feel like there may actually be hope for other things.

Plus, I tend to think of the fighting game community as having changed rather than no longer existing "the way it was". Online play really has revitalized fighting games and is actually making money. And when games make money , they get sequels. SSF2THDR doing well in sales and being played a lot bodes well for us all.

quote:
As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather see them dead than bastardized ad nauseam for quick bucks.


I'm pretty sure that image is a fake. It's cruel to even make us think even for a second that Sega might make a sequel to that piece of shit. Shame on you, Hayato.

quote:
Please Maese, If you love Darkstalkers, leave them stalking from the Dark... forever.



I still think that with how well done, cartoony and full of character the character models were in SFIV, a new DS done in a similar style could potentially be awesome...maybe.





Er.....

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"Re(5):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 03:08post reply

quote:

As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather see them dead than bastardized ad nauseam for quick bucks.

I'm pretty sure that image is a fake. It's cruel to even make us think even for a second that Sega might make a sequel to that piece of shit. Shame on you, Hayato.



Well I just made a quick google search in order to find a random contemporary Sonic pic to illustrate my point of view, I didn't even bother to read the title of the game. Besides, I couldn't care less about whether it is a fake or not, not anymore...

I just can't stand seeing my childhood raped again and again, so that's why I'd like my fond memories as a teen gamer to remain safe. Please, someone stop this!!!





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"Re(6):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 05:35post reply

quote:
Well I just made a quick google search in order to find a random contemporary Sonic pic to illustrate my point of view, I didn't even bother to read the title of the game. Besides, I couldn't care less about whether it is a fake or not, not anymore...

I just can't stand seeing my childhood raped again and again, so that's why I'd like my fond memories as a teen gamer to remain safe. Please, someone stop this!!!


I'm not picking on you Hayato with the proceeding but the phrasing in your post caused my mind to wander.

What is the deal with that "raping my childhood" phrase? Putting aside the vulgar choice of words, why do people get so upset when a product continues to adapt to the marketplace? Most people don't stalk former lovers they used to be in relationships with, or have their pets or family members taxidermied when they die so they will always remained seated on the couch next to them or doing some other irrational thing that shows they are incapable of accepting change. But these same people will start to wail when something that is ultimately meaningless -such as a toy line, video game series or what have you- is altered by the corporations that control it in order to keep sales up. Why is this? Nostalgia is not a bad thing but I wonder if a sense of perspective is sometimes getting lost.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 07:42post reply

quote:
What is the deal with that "raping my childhood" phrase? Putting aside the vulgar choice of words, why do people get so upset when a product continues to adapt to the marketplace? Most people don't stalk former lovers they used to be in relationships with, or have their pets or family members taxidermied when they die so they will always remained seated on the couch next to them or doing some other irrational thing that shows they are incapable of accepting change. But these same people will start to wail when something that is ultimately meaningless -such as a toy line, video game series or what have you- is altered by the corporations that control it in order to keep sales up. Why is this? Nostalgia is not a bad thing but I wonder if a sense of perspective is sometimes getting lost.

Well you got a point there. Yes, nobody wants to see their favourite franchise to be ruined but to me, its better than dissappear to oblivion. Cause then you would have no chance to see decent material from the franchise.

But that doesnt mean I want them to ruin everything good. In before accusions.





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"Re(8):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 09:04post reply

I guess the point is that certain franchises, characters, etc. have special meaning and when they are realized for future in a way that bastardizes the brand or characters, it's somewhat of a waste.

For example, I like SF4 and I think that Capcom has taken great care to balance the old and the new. But games like Shadowrun (an old cyberpunk RPG) being turned into a multiplayer Xbox 360 shooter for some inexplicable reason, or the Mechwarrior franchise being ran into the ground and turned into an arcady shooter, those are the kinds of things that annoy me the most.

Most people who purchase franchises fail to capture the essence of what made that franchise so special in the first place, and look at it as an installed fan base which they can continue to phone in half asses expansions. Some THINK that they are doing the best they can to stay true to the original, but misunderstand and end up failing to some degree.

Sonic Unleashed is a great example, as interviews with the producer showed that he thought "Sonic is all about speed!", when in reality the old Sonics had much more than speed, and the speed was doled out in portions, not a constant thing (in Sonic Unleashed, you're constantly moving fast at all times with no time to really breathe or react to anything).

Fallout 3 is mixed for me, as I think the creators really tried to respect the franchise and do it justice in the best way they could. However it still lacked the quality in writing of the originals, and there were some poor design decisions that marred the experience for me. However it's selling like gangbusters and earning high praises, so I imagine people don't really mind the deficiencies (I just got bored and stopped after a while).





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"Re(9):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 09:53:post reply

quote:
I guess the point is that certain franchises, characters, etc. have special meaning and when they are realized for future in a way that bastardizes the brand or characters, it's somewhat of a waste.
I mean its better to try than nothing. If failed I can totally ignore. If achieved than wonderful. Hesitation of "you never be able to have old feel" shouldnt be the way of thinking of a producer (I mean one who cares otherwise my point is irrelevant).
An example;
I enjoyed Tomb Raider 3/4/5 but 6 was disaster. But I really enjoyed their then try TR Legend.





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[this message was edited by kofoguz on Fri 23 Jan 10:03]

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"Re(10):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 12:05post reply

Personally i'm proud of Ono & Capcom, who would have ever thought Street Fighter 4 would make it to the top of the sales charts (not just pre-order but entire sales) at gamestop.com in this age of criminal simulators and armchair commando games? Regardless of whether you think it bastardizes SF or not, obviously something was done right here.





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"Re(7):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 17:08post reply

quote:
Well I just made a quick google search in order to find a random contemporary Sonic pic to illustrate my point of view, I didn't even bother to read the title of the game. Besides, I couldn't care less about whether it is a fake or not, not anymore...

I just can't stand seeing my childhood raped again and again, so that's why I'd like my fond memories as a teen gamer to remain safe. Please, someone stop this!!!

I'm not picking on you Hayato with the proceeding but the phrasing in your post caused my mind to wander.

What is the deal with that "raping my childhood" phrase? Putting aside the vulgar choice of words, why do people get so upset when a product continues to adapt to the marketplace? Most people don't stalk former lovers they used to be in relationships with, or have their pets or family members taxidermied when they die so they will always remained seated on the couch next to them or doing some other irrational thing that shows they are incapable of accepting change. But these same people will start to wail when something that is ultimately meaningless -such as a toy line, video game series or what have you- is altered by the corporations that control it in order to keep sales up. Why is this? Nostalgia is not a bad thing but I wonder if a sense of perspective is sometimes getting lost.



Perhaps it isn't a lack of perspective, it could simply be a matter of what perspective suits you best...

I am of the opinion that some things can get perfected to a certain degree and, should this level be attained, one should stop pushing further, lest you end ruining the whole thing. Some people should argue that there's always room for improvement and I respect that but, concerning videogames, time has proven that the truth is on my side.


I'm not saying that the new installments of those decades-spanning franchises are utter crap in their entirety (some of them, like SFIV are pretty amusing and even technically groundbreaking) but it's pretty clear (based on the huge amount of panning reviews these titles generally get) that some have lost those essential traits that made them unique and appealing for its original audience.


It may be due to a radical change in the habits and preferences of the youngest generations of gamers, and I'm pretty sure that the poor bastards new customers (those who are in their mid-teens now) would find those new installments pretty amusing, be it for the sole reason that they don't know what they've been missing all these years or because the firms made a succesful revamping of their products, "bringing them to a new age of gaming"...

But the fact is that the 90's ended long ago, I'm older and not as easy to amaze as I was back then. In other words: I've changed, and my world with me. The same could be said of the videogame industry and the companies that made me vibrate of eagerness with their games. The original teams that created those franchises I cherished dissapeared years ago, and they'll never join again, so the chances of getting a game of said franchise of my time, made by the people who worked on it then and designed to suit the tastes of people of my age are impossible. And what's even more important to me: no new game will be able to get into me like those I played as a child, no game will provide me with such deep and joyful experiences, because my time of discovering and experiencing the novelty of the media ended long ago. Even if let's say, SFV' ends being a complete HD rehash of SFIII, I'll never be able to feel what I did when I saw SFIII:NG for the first time on my local arcade, or the people I befriended while playing it. If so, while in front of that superb SFV', now adapted to a new playing generation "in HD and with moar lens flarez" I'd recall playing the original SFIII, and then I'd start realizing how old I am and how crappy the industy has become, which is the opposite to what I call "having fun".

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I became a true bitch for emulators...





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"Re(8):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 18:00post reply

quote:
Hayato's rant



Your words are as empty as your soul. THIS is how easy to amaze you *still* are.





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"Re(9):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 20:13post reply

quote:
Hayato's rant

I think that's even stronger in the fighting game genre, which is heavily character-oriented (the perpetual rape of the Gar and AoF characters in KOF comes in mind, and the subsequent degradation in each sequel, KOF 2002 I'm looking at you).

Almost everything you said could apply to me when I saw the 4 Vampire characters in MvC2, who were mauled beyond recognition.
But see ? There is hope ! Morrigan in Tatsunoko looks better than ever ! All you have to do is wait half a dozen of years, and voil !





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"Re(9):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 20:17post reply

So wait...SF3 alienated SF2 fans and SF4 brings back SF2 fans, but alienates SF3 fans. So who's a bastard here?





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"Re(10):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we could" , posted Fri 23 Jan 22:36post reply

quote:
So wait...SF3 alienated SF2 fans and SF4 brings back SF2 fans, but alienates SF3 fans. So who's a bastard here?



For better or worse SFIII was a very big change from the Zero or 'II series. When rumors of 'IV' popped out a lot of people wanted & expected a fresh, new, different game that will eventually grow & gain life of it's own. And as such, the current SF IV is nothing but a wasted chance, and does certainly noy intend to step away from it's train of thought even if further revisions pop out.

Aswering the previous questions, "yes", there are bastards that didn't disliked neither II nor III, but are alienated by IV







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karasu99
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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we" , posted Sat 24 Jan 05:33:post reply

quote:
For better or worse SFIII was a very big change from the Zero or 'II series. When rumors of 'IV' popped out a lot of people wanted & expected a fresh, new, different game that will eventually grow & gain life of it's own. And as such, the current SF IV is nothing but a wasted chance, and does certainly noy intend to step away from it's train of thought even if further revisions pop out.

Aswering the previous questions, "yes", there are bastards that didn't disliked neither II nor III, but are alienated by IV



It's hard to say how I feel about SFIV-- I'm glad it was made, and I think that as a 3D game, it's about as good as you can get in terms of closeness in style to 2D. But I agree with you about it being a wasted chance. I remember all the anticipation regarding the cast, and it ended up being... just the SF2 cast.. and, oh yeah, these 4 new guys. While I think the anticipation of there being people from SFIII in there bordered on the obsessive, I'm shocked they couldn't even work in someone like Alex, who is a crossover appearance whore to begin with, but that they strangely decided to include people from Zero. I think one SFIII'er would have been enough to satisfy almost everyone.

But speaking personally, I'm just tired of seeing the whole pre-Super SF2 cast slotted in their entirety over and over into games. I see the whole 'retro' and 'nostalgia' thing being partly responsible in this case-- Capcom feels like they can sell a $60, 3D version of a 16 year old 2D game with a comfortable, familiar cast much more easily than they could a 3D fighting game with unfamiliar systems and 2 or 3 familiar faces in an otherwise all-new cast, and listen for years as people complain about how their favorite from SF2 didn't make the cut. For those of us who didn't stop playing the SF series long enough ago, though, it just ends up seeming like a stale retread in a lot of ways.

Guwahhhh. What am I talking about? It's not as if I won't buy it or something. I just wish there was a chance in hell that they would ever make a new 2D SF. I mean, try to imagine if KOF: Maximum Impact had been the direction the real KOF series had gone in.

EDIT: I realize this just reiterates what has already been said, so it's probably not a very useful comment. But still, it has the strength of my Gigantic Emotion behind it.





[this message was edited by karasu99 on Sat 24 Jan 05:49]

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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we" , posted Sat 24 Jan 05:57post reply

quote:


Guwahhhh. What am I talking about? It's not as if I won't buy it or something. I just wish there was a chance in hell that they would ever make a new 2D SF. I mean, try to imagine if KOF: Maximum Impact had been the direction the real KOF series had gone in.



There is a big difference here, though. You see, KoF Max Impact was shit, while SFIV is actually pretty good. A better comparison would have been SF EX being the direction the SF series went in.

Quite frankly, I'm not down with the argument against SFIV being strictly that it's NOT 2d. I wasn't feeling too good about it when it was first announced, but seeing what they did with the 3d changed my mind. The game is still beautiful and most importantly it still plays like SF. Not only that, but gameplay wise it's about as much old gameplay as new...this is about as good an example I can think of something being simultaneously new while still being close enough to it's roots that even old school SF2 players like it.

So not only has SFIV to a large extent reinvigorated the already established fanbase, but brought in people who haven't played SF in a long time. It's got enough of the old and new. And if pre-purchases are any indication, it'll sell like hotcakes. So where is the "wasted opportunity"?





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Ktallguy
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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we" , posted Sat 24 Jan 06:36post reply

quote:
So where is the "wasted opportunity"?



Yes, I think Capcom read the market perfectly and did the "right thing". I've played SF4 enough to know that it's not a tired rehash. It introduces enough new things to keep competitive people interested, but brings in the older nostalgic players who are happy to use the palm of their hand to mash all 6 buttons at once.

If fighting games can enjoy another renaissance, then it would be great to see Capcom relaunch old series, or *gasp* create entire new series!!

Oh, and I like the new SF4 characters now :)





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karasu99
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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we" , posted Sat 24 Jan 06:42post reply

quote:
There is a big difference here, though. You see, KoF Max Impact was shit, while SFIV is actually pretty good. A better comparison would have been SF EX being the direction the SF series went in.

Quite frankly, I'm not down with the argument against SFIV being strictly that it's NOT 2d. I wasn't feeling too good about it when it was first announced, but seeing what they did with the 3d changed my mind. The game is still beautiful and most importantly it still plays like SF. Not only that, but gameplay wise it's about as much old gameplay as new...this is about as good an example I can think of something being simultaneously new while still being close enough to it's roots that even old school SF2 players like it.

So not only has SFIV to a large extent reinvigorated the already established fanbase, but brought in people who haven't played SF in a long time. It's got enough of the old and new. And if pre-purchases are any indication, it'll sell like hotcakes. So where is the "wasted opportunity"?



I'll agree-- "wasted opportunity" is a bit harsh. But I guess my feeling is that if they were going to make this excellent new 3D Street Fighter, I think they could have been a little more original regarding the cast. The Zero and SFIII games both took a chance with the cast on their first two rounds-- Zero by introducing non-SF Capcom properties like Guy and Sodom as well as new characters like Sakura. SFIII was to my mind much more radical in terms of cast by ONLY bringing back Ryu and Ken (and later Chun Li). I would have expected SFIV to follow suit-- it's years later, we've seen both SFIII and Zero play out as series in their own right. But instead (cast-wise), all Capcom did was play the nostalgia card in a big way and bring back the whole cast of SF2, and then add in a few new characters. I'm not including in this, by the way, the console exclusives, eve though they don't go very far against my point.

No matter how beautiful and well-crafted the game is (and it is!), nothing will stop me from being just a little disappointed in the character and aesthetic choices they made, that's all.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Rumor: If fans demand, we" , posted Sat 24 Jan 13:19post reply

quote:

I'll agree-- "wasted opportunity" is a bit harsh. But I guess my feeling is that if they were going to make this excellent new 3D Street Fighter, I think they could have been a little more original regarding the cast. The Zero and SFIII games both took



The difference here is SFIV is the first new Street Fighter game in ten years and Zero and SFIII were brought about while Street Fighter was still fresh on everyone's minds. The latter two could afford to be daring because they still had ready access to the install base generated from SFII. SFIV is in a position where, save for Street Fighter's most diehard players, mostly must start from scratch.

It may not be the best idea by variety's sake, but it is also the safest.





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"I like biscuits" , posted Sat 24 Jan 20:35post reply

SFIV brought out all kinds of responses, both good and bad. Regardless, there is an electric atmosphere regarding people wanting to try the game, or have already played the game and are waiting for the console version. Those tournament sticks selling out quickly is a great sign that people want this game bad.

And we haven't even seen how the casual gamer will react when they see the game on the shelves next month.

Other companies will see how much of a stir SFIV caused, and it will create more competition. KOF and Blazblue now own the 2D market Capcom left behind, but hopefully both companies will realize that hi-res 2D graphics alone won't hold up their games. In fact, some people will see it as a flaw and both companies will have to work extra hard to make sure that it's got great gameplay and interesting characters.

Then you have 3D games like VF and Tekken, who have been upgrading their games steadily over a span of years. They see how much SFIV has changed, and they'll be under the gun to make even more major improvements. Slapping on a few new characters and adding frilly new costumes may not be enough to keep people interested... especially new players and old players who are getting tired of the same old stuff.

We all win. Fighters have come back with a vengeance in the last calendar year.





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"Re(1):I like biscuits" , posted Sat 24 Jan 22:29post reply

quote:

We all win. Fighters have come back with a vengeance in the last calendar year.



In the last calendar year fighting games got rehashes, high definition 3D and 2D graphics, and online play. But, none of that, not even the sum of them all, translate to better games.





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"Re(2):I like biscuits" , posted Sun 25 Jan 04:57post reply

quote:

We all win. Fighters have come back with a vengeance in the last calendar year.


In the last calendar year fighting games got rehashes, high definition 3D and 2D graphics, and online play. But, none of that, not even the sum of them all, translate to better games.


But I'm highly optimistic about this calendar year's and next one's.





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"Re(1):I like biscuits" , posted Sun 25 Jan 06:22post reply

quote:
We all win. Fighters have come back with a vengeance in the last calendar year.

It certainly beats the heck out of the days when fighters were based around either strikers or tag gameplay. Those were lean, difficult years.





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"Re(2):I like biscuits" , posted Sun 25 Jan 07:10post reply

quote:

It certainly beats the heck out of the days when fighters were based around either strikers or tag gameplay. Those were lean, difficult years.



You mean that period from about '99 to 2001 where every new fighting game had a tag formula of some sort? I never knew I would appreciate simple one-on-one fighting games as much as I did after all that.


quote:
In the last calendar year fighting games got rehashes, high definition 3D and 2D graphics, and online play. But, none of that, not even the sum of them all, translate to better games.



I would definitely say that what online play does translate to is a healthier and more sustainable community for fighting games. And that's certainly a good thing. Plus, I may not be much of a graphics whore, but better graphics certainly doesn't hurt.

As for the rehash part, we've had some original fighting games come out in the last year too (BlazBlue, Battle Fantasia). If these "rehases" are bothering you, then the original games are out there.





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"Re(2):I like biscuits" , posted Sun 25 Jan 10:52post reply

quote:

In the last calendar year fighting games got rehashes, high definition 3D and 2D graphics, and online play. But, none of that, not even the sum of them all, translate to better games.



Perhaps not but what those things did do was renew peoples interest in fighters. And renewed interest means sales, which in turn means more fighters, which in turn means that the companies producing those fighters will have to make quality titles to stand out, which in turn means...

better games





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Count Hihihi
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"Re(3):I like biscuits" , posted Sun 25 Jan 19:27post reply

I clearly replied to a post that claimed the last calendar year was exceptionally good when it comes to fighting games.


quote:

I would definitely say that what online play does translate to is a healthier and more sustainable community for fighting games. And that's certainly a good thing. Plus, I may not be much of a graphics whore, but better graphics certainly doesn't hurt.



Better graphics. What's the best selling fighting game in the united states? Shiny stuff sells, not good gameplay.

Oh, and..

quote:

Perhaps not but what those things did do was renew peoples interest in fighters. And renewed interest means sales, which in turn means more fighters, which in turn means that the companies producing those fighters will have to make quality titles to stand out, which in turn means...

better games



Online play is just another attraction to slap on top of a game, it can't be built upon to achieve a great fighting game. Why not read the latest Arc Systems interview at Gamasutra. If you don't agree with what they say, please, don't argue about it with me.

..And concerning such things as sales, communities, etc bullcrap arguments that should not concern the customer.. There is a game that didn't sell worth shit, didn't get any praise or was even acknowledged by the mainstream that is going to save your beloved SFIV. Yeah, the one that came before it. People still love it and play it. What matters is the product, nothing else. Why bring up anything else than the game? You can't really make a difference about anything else. All you can do is play the game.

Yeah, ok, you find sales charts so interesting.
I'm waiting for someone to bring up the great depression in relation to fighting games next.





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Ktallguy
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"Re(4):I like biscuits" , posted Sun 25 Jan 21:08post reply

I guess the point is that online play is basically assumed to be there from day one.

VF5 on the PS3 didn't have online play, because anyone who plays VF seriously (and the team at SEGA) knows that dropped frames in VF can screw up a match completely. The timing is just too strict for people to really trust online.

But the reality is that the market isn't that smart and doesn't know this. To them, not having online play boils down to not having the ability to play against other people, basically. If it's not there, the game is shunned, regardless of quality.

I really like how SF4 has rebooted the franchise in a way that people of all skill levels can pick up and do something. VF5 on the other hand is the result of years and years of entrenched fans who demand more complexity and depth. The result is a game that people need to sit down and study videos and read forums to actually enjoy. Accessibility is the wave of the future, and unfortunately, it may come at some expense to the truly hardcore players.





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"Re(3):I like biscuits" , posted Sun 25 Jan 21:21post reply

quote:
Perhaps not but what those things did do was renew peoples interest in fighters. And renewed interest means sales, which in turn means more fighters, which in turn means that the companies producing those fighters will have to make quality titles to stand out, which in turn means...

better games


My point exactly.





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Count Hihihi
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"Re(5):I like biscuits" , posted Sun 25 Jan 22:45post reply

quote:

I really like how SF4 has rebooted the franchise in a way that people of all skill levels can pick up and do something. VF5 on the other hand is the result of years and years of entrenched fans who demand more complexity and depth. The result is a game that people need to sit down and study videos and read forums to actually enjoy.



SFIV doesn't have a single element that allows people of all skill levels to "do something." It still has 6 buttons, complicated commands for special moves (+ EX stuff), and even more complicated commands for super and ultra moves. Pressing two buttons at once for a charge attack isn't going to create a fighting game revolution. Are you really so dimwitted that you have believed everything Ono has said in the interviews?

And since you brought up VF, I have to point out that as far as I know, people who are not into fighting games can appreciate the 3 button system and the simple combos the game allows you to pull off with basic mashing to have fun. Unlike in SF where the game isn't exciting without special moves. In fact, not being able to pull off special moves against an opponent who does them constantly to win simply ruins the fun. Everyone who has played 2D fighting games against a beginner knows this, so what's the difference with SFIV? And don't forget, most people will be playing it with a PS3 or 360 pad.





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"Re(4):I like biscuits" , posted Sun 25 Jan 22:47post reply

quote:

Online play is just another attraction to slap on top of a game, it can't be built upon to achieve a great fighting game. Why not read the latest Arc Systems interview at Gamasutra. If you don't agree with what they say, please, don't argue about it with me.

..And concerning such things as sales, communities, etc bullcrap arguments that should not concern the customer.. There is a game that didn't sell worth shit, didn't get any praise or was even acknowledged by the mainstream that is going to save your beloved SFIV. Yeah, the one that came before it. People still love it and play it. What matters is the product, nothing else. Why bring up anything else than the game? You can't really make a difference about anything else. All you can do is play the game.

Yeah, ok, you find sales charts so interesting.
I'm waiting for someone to bring up the great depression in relation to fighting games next.




......I really hope this is a joke or sarcasm.





Er.....

chazumaru
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"Re(5):I like biscuits" , posted Mon 26 Jan 00:22post reply

quote:

What's the best selling fighting game in the united states?



Super Smash Bros. Brawl.





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"Re(4):I like biscuits" , posted Mon 26 Jan 03:40post reply

quote:
Online play is just another attraction to slap on top of a game, it can't be built upon to achieve a great fighting game. Why not read the latest Arc Systems interview at Gamasutra. If you don't agree with what they say, please, don't argue about it with me.

..And concerning such things as sales, communities, etc bullcrap arguments that should not concern the customer.. There is a game that didn't sell worth shit, didn't get any praise or was even acknowledged by the mainstream that is going to save your beloved SFIV. Yeah, the one that came before it. People still love it and play it. What matters is the product, nothing else. Why bring up anything else than the game? You can't really make a difference about anything else. All you can do is play the game.

Yeah, ok, you find sales charts so interesting.
I'm waiting for someone to bring up the great depression in relation to fighting games next.



Wow - your response was sooooo BADASS

no... wait, just ASS

seriously though, why did you even respond?





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"Re(5):I like biscuits" , posted Mon 26 Jan 03:44post reply

quote:
seriously though, why did you even respond?

Because it was a response with arguments and words that made sense, though from a point of view that's different from the person he was answering to ?





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"Re(6):I like biscuits" , posted Mon 26 Jan 05:54post reply

quote:

Because it was a response with arguments and words that made sense, though from a point of view that's different from the person he was answering to ?



Yet I don't feel that said response was significantly related to the original point it was referencing. Why specifically reply to something only to skirt the particular issue?





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"Re(6):I like biscuits" , posted Mon 26 Jan 08:40post reply

quote:
seriously though, why did you even respond?
Because it was a response with arguments and words that made sense, though from a point of view that's different from the person he was answering to ?




The argument that the availability of people to play a game with with or whether said game sells well shouldn't matter to the consumer makes sense?





Er.....

chazumaru
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"Re(6):I like biscuits" , posted Mon 26 Jan 13:00post reply

quote:
But the reality is that the market isn't that smart and doesn't know this.

You are mistaking "not knowing" and "not caring".

quote:

Are you really so dimwitted that you have believed everything Ono has said in the interviews?


I agree with you on the topic of accessibility in MBGE SF4 but you don't need to be a jerk. Furthermore, you need to take into account that the Street Fighter II community used to weigh a few million players. Ono's true goal is to bring back people who already know how to perform quarter-circles for Ryu and charge moves for Guile, but couldn't care enough about the evolutions that followed.

That is the very reason Capcom came back to the cast of SF2. Most SF4 players won't understand anything about the different bars, EX moves and Saving Attacks, but they'll have no problem with special moves and six buttons (they'll just use HP and HK anyway). This is much easier than converting absolute newcomers.





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"Re(6):I like biscuits" , posted Mon 26 Jan 13:51:post reply

quote:

SFIV doesn't have a single element that allows people of all skill levels to "do something." It still has 6 buttons, complicated commands for special moves (+ EX stuff), and even more complicated commands for super and ultra moves. Pressing two buttons at once for a charge attack isn't going to create a fighting game revolution.



Chaz basically said it for me. The target is casual players who loved (on a basic level) SF in the past, not people who have never touched a fighting game before. And even people who have never touched a fighting game before can grasp things like push away from your opponent to block, push up to jump, and hit button near opponent to hit them. From there, if there's lasting interest, they can start learning special moves(and the SF4 inputs are much easier than previous iterations). Even basic attacks in SF4 are very flashy, and the hit effects are over the top. Good players will crush a beginner, but players of equal skill level can still have fun.

Virtua Fighter is a game that I love, but there's a myriad of things that make it unattractive to the new player. The simpler moves aren't very flashy at all, so people get bored quickly. The 3 button system appears to be very straightforward, but you have to time directional input with button pressing very precisely in order to perform any moves other than standard P or K moves. Throw timing is very strict, and there are a lot of multiple button moves combined with directional presses, even on the "beginner" characters. Character movement is slow unless you know how to crouch dash. Also, many people mash the guard button accidentally and get confused.

In my opinion, VF is a game where you have to put a lot into it to get something out of it. But I think Ono has succeeded in making a game where you can still enjoy it without sitting down and studying it.

/rant





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[this message was edited by Ktallguy on Mon 26 Jan 13:53]

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"Re:I think biscuits are okay" , posted Wed 28 Jan 03:39post reply

quote:
That is the very reason Capcom came back to the cast of SF2. Most SF4 players won't understand anything about the different bars, EX moves and Saving Attacks, but they'll have no problem with special moves and six buttons (they'll just use HP and HK anyway). This is much easier than converting absolute newcomers.



This is a good point, really, and I guess anything that helps to invigorate the fighting game market (Dead or Alive series aside ) is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. And SFIV seems to have done so in a big way, at least based on the numbers of near middle-agers like me who I've heard express their eager anticipation for its console release-- many of whom I didn't even know played games, let alone fighting games.

Plus I suppose I shouldn't suggest that returning to the 'old favorites' cast is a bad thing after being so excited about KOFXII...

I will also express my sincere hope that 2009 is at least half the year that 2008 was in terms of new fighting games. I might even buy a console Tekken 6 if it comes to pass this year!





kofoguz
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"Re(1):Re:I think biscuits are okay" , posted Wed 28 Jan 09:46post reply

I think most of the MMcafeers ranting is not just being safe, you could be safe and sexed it up a little. Its like boring sex with your ex.

On the other hand in Kof XII, (still roster number is small), they've got new tricks here and there (Chin, Kensou, etc...)

Its either boring sex with ex, or quick sex after long waiting with your regular.

That's what I think.



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -

At least sex is there


End of Spoiler







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Iron D
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"Re(2):Re:I think biscuits are okay" , posted Wed 28 Jan 16:53post reply

quote:
I think most of the MMcafeers ranting is not just being safe, you could be safe and sexed it up a little. Its like boring sex with your ex.

On the other hand in Kof XII, (still roster number is small), they've got new tricks here and there (Chin, Kensou, etc...)

Its either boring sex with ex, or quick sex after long waiting with your regular.

That's what I think.





The hell? KoF XII is the epitome of "safe" marketing.

Also, you and I must have had different experiences, but having sex with a girl you've broken up with? It was actually pretty hot.





Er.....

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"Re(3):Re:I think biscuits are okay" , posted Wed 28 Jan 18:36post reply

quote:

The hell? KoF XII is the epitome of "safe" marketing.

Also, you and I must have had different experiences, but having sex with a girl you've broken up with? It was actually pretty hot.



I guess I never thought of KOF XII as "safe". It seemed kind of..."alienatingly retro" in some ways, since it (KOF) doesn't have the same massive "old crowd" that Street Fighter has. Also, they're excluding several popular characters in lieu of some odd choices (Chin and Raiden). I dunno, that was just my view.

As for the sex thing, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think it's like a mix? Like...having sex with an ex is kind of wild and hot, but having boring sex makes it "safe". So it's a like watering down something exciting or adding a little spice to something bland. I think?





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"Re(4):Re:I think biscuits are okay" , posted Thu 29 Jan 01:57post reply

quote:
I guess I never thought of KOF XII as "safe". It seemed kind of..."alienatingly retro" in some ways, since it (KOF) doesn't have the same massive "old crowd" that Street Fighter has. Also, they're excluding several popular characters in lieu of some odd choices (Chin and Raiden). I dunno, that was just my view.


It's odd, I think KoF XII is supposed to be a "safe" title but SNKP is so far out on a limb with this one that it looks more daring than it was meant to be. For example, I suspect budget problems created KoF XII's lean character selection rather than any sort of daring choice on SNKP's part. Either that, or poor Mai is now only good enough for Queen's Blade books and not their flagship series.

Who knows, maybe this jittery dichotomy between the expected and unexpected will help KoF XII. Caught between soothing, boring familiarity and surprises that both delight and disappoint the game and I will undoubtedly get caught up in a torrid affair that will be full of passionate heartbreak and furious enjoyment. I put a lot of emotional investment into the fighting games I play.