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| karasu99
15th Post
 
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|  "Re(3):The KOF XII decembre thread" , posted Tue 2 Dec 07:02
quote:
Ash ShenWu Duolon
Kyo Benimaru Daimon
Leona Ralf Clark
Terry Andy Joe
Athena Kensou Chin
Ryo Robert [Takuma?]
[Mai] [Yuri] [King]
Kim [Chang] [Choi]
[Yamazaki] [Billy] Raiden
What about Iori? He's also in the game...
I've been thinking of this a lot lately. Chances are, some number of characters beyond the current roster were in the planning stage, or just existed as drawings, and at some point the development was cut off and the 'best' characters were given the go ahead and finished. I'm not even sure that teams are or were even the point-- SNKP has been moving slowly away from organized teams since '95. In fact, I'd say that at this point teams are only there to advance the storyline for those who care. But they have little or no impact on gameplay at all since... what, was it '99 where some team mates wouldn't jump in and help you out depending on their feeling toward you? And that's not even mentioning games like KOF:MI that, while non-canon, still use the KOF name but reject the team concept entirely.
All I'm saying is, chances are Raiden wasn't ever seriously meant to be on a team, and if he was, it was at the pencil sketch stage.
Speaking of him, since his inclusion in CvsS, I've been waiting for him to appear in a KOF. He was, after all, in the 'original' KOF, the first Garou Densetsu! I've been waiting 18 years for a second Hwa Jai appearance, now that I mention it (not counting his appearance in promotional art for KOF)!
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| Variable Savior 454th Post
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| "Re(2):The KOF XII decembre thread" , posted Tue 2 Dec 09:02
quote:
KOF XII teams look a lot like the '94 teams.
I'm really wondering what team Raiden was supposed to be on. I'm guessing some sort of Geese backed "outlaw" team.
Well, since you're talking historically (and since XII has the whole retro thing going) the KoF 10th anniversary website suggests that Raiden could have been on two separate teams. Quotes from Yuri and Tizoc's profiles respectively.
Team England:
quote:
Yuri is a disciple of Kyokugen Karate but her appearances in the KOF series are frequently as a member of the women fighters' team. Originally in KOF '94 there was no such team and production began on King Billy Big Bear as the English team. But Art of Fighting 2 was completed at that time and the designers pressed to put Yuri into KOF, replacing her with Big Bear, who was presenting various problems, for various reasons (hah, hah) concerning capacity. Enter Yuri, goodbye Billy! (A tragedy, we know) And so the originally planned team started life anew as the mighty women fighters' team.
Garou Team:
quote:
To tell the truth, "Raiden" was to appear in KOF 2003, but before the characters were finally decided on, Tizoc took his place.
Personally I don't think either option would be valid in XII but it's fun to reminisce. Had they the time to flesh out the roster I think that they'd have put Raiden with Iori and another "bad guy" for a villains team.
Blood marks heaven's path
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| Professor 2522th Post
MMCafe Owner
     
| "Beta test vids, etc" , posted Sat 20 Dec 20:15:
Beta test footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHx62oz59TI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNquQPgtVtw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DVLs3KzAQQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKqghlt1Uy8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxBfjdZ-rHs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmGfvRyuN7s
And more here http://www.youtube.com/user/wx1682
I'll probably go check the game out tomorrow. And probably get bored in a few minutes because Mai isn't in it.
From what's been reported from the beta test so far, the graphics are great but it doesn't seem like the players are too hyped about the new gameplay (way too much poking with crouching attacks, slower than recent KOFs, no flashyness, not much combos). But there were a lot of watchers. Here's a few common things said by Japanese BBS posters:
-Damage on Supers have been toned down, but they come out a little faster now.
-Weak attacks come out very fast. But the fierce attacks on the other hand comes out pretty slow, making the game feel like it's missing a medium attack.
-Distant C and D attacks have really short range compared to previous games and they can't be used for holding the opponent back. It seems like the developers really want players to fight in close-range combat. But as a result, players are using foot sweeps (crouching B and D's) as a substitute.
-Special throws come out very slow and they seem very useless at the current time.
-The new CC system (critical counter system, read below for details) does a lot of damage, like 40-50 percent life if you finish off with a super.
-There's no screen effect on a Knockout, so you don't immediately know if you've beat your opponent or if they're still living with 0 life.
Also, let me write a quick overview of what's mentioned on the official site, here it goes.
If you've been following the KOFXII scene, you know that there was a preview event last month. The developers got feedback from attendees and they've fixed up a few points in the game's system, most noteably with the Critical Counter system.
The critical counter system (CC)
When your power bar is at MAX and you counter-hit your opponent with a closeup fierce, you'll go into critical counter time. During that time, your opponent will be opened up to attacks and you can chain your normal moves. Also, you can dash by just hitting forward. CC doesn't happen if you hit your opponent from the air.
There's also another way to use your critical counter. If you do your super right when you enter critical counter, you can do a more flashy looking super than usual. (No mention about how much more damage it does than normal supers)
The biggest change from previous builds is that the CC now requires you to be in MAX mode. With that change, the developers hope to make the gameplay more action packed so that players would fight aggressively in the beginning of the round, power up their bar, and be in a thrilling situation where they're MAX'ed up by the middle of the round. The MAX mode has a time limit, so you're kind of pressed to make the best of it.
The developers also added some aestetic changes to the CC so that it'll look more cool.
First, they've added a yellow effect on the startup so that you'd actually know when you've done it (However, another section of KOFXII's site says that the effect actually happens when you "attempt" it, so it's a bit confusing right now). Also, there's a green effect when the CC ends.
Second, they've made it so that the screen zooms into the characters when you go into CC.
There's also been control fixes, changes in the super move graphics, and move balances. We'll probably hear more about those during this weekend.
[this message was edited by Professor on Sun 21 Dec 00:02] |
| Time Mage 2746th Post
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| "Re(1):Beta test vids, etc" , posted Tue 23 Dec 05:28
After seeing the videos, I have to say I'm not liking how the gameplay looks. Crouching light attacks seem always the best option, rendering useless the Critical Counter system, since you won't be using a hard attack at close.
The game looked more solid in previous presentations, really.
Also, the pause when executing a super, without any kind of effect looks pretty ugly, specially when the opponent is in the air: They just stay there, frozen for a second, and you don't realize why until the super comes out. Some kind of spark/screen darkening or whatever is necessary there.
Also, it looks like big grappler characters suck... Which is a pity.
Graphics look gorgeous, though, and I like the fact that clashes are now much less frequent.
"News flash big guy: You can wax on wax off all you want I'm still... KICKIN' YOUR ASS!"
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| Professor 2529th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Game plays like... a KOF game!" , posted Sun 1 Feb 13:21:
Footage taken from visitors:
http://www.youtube.com/user/tomakuntube
http://www.youtube.com/user/wx8193
I took a short time to play the game. There's not much to say about it because the videos above should pretty much tell everything. It's essencially the same as before, but it's been waaay sped up. So you end up playing it differently than at TGS or the premire event.
The previous versions had smooth animation, but its gameplay speed was sluggish almost par to SF4, and it played a bit old-style. It was pretty easy to knock an opponent out of the air or right after they've rolled.
Now the game's been sped up and you can't really taste the nice animation, but it plays very much like the more recent KOFs. You can spam your opponents with jump attacks, rolling is pretty effective, and supers come out fast enough that they can be used in combos.
The interface (life bars, power bars) look much better than before. There's a new, Cricical Counter meter on the top of the screen now. It's different from the POW meter on the bottom of the screen, which lets you do a super when it's full. The CC meter starts dwindling as soon as it maxes, the POW meter doesn't. (Critical Counter: you go into custom combo time if you luckily make a counter hit with a feirce attack.)
Three gripes:
1.It seems like there's actually time over animation for the characters, but everyone kept skipping them.
2.There's still no taunts.
3. With the game's new speed, it's become pretty easy to get a CC in by accident. I'm not sure if that's what the developers intended. Given that they've made the gamespeed change this late (just 3 months before the game's scheduled release), I think it's a last minute thing after the feedbacks by beta players.
A tag on the game's cabinet said that development is 90% complete, so I'm pretty sure it'll be out without a delay.
[this message was edited by Professor on Sun 1 Feb 13:37] |
| Spoon 1725th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(6):Game plays like... a KOF game!" , posted Wed 4 Feb 07:47
quote:
Thanks Prof and Toxico.
I am probably the only one in the room disappointed that they changed the speed. It seems a bit like a cop out from the original design idea behind XII. I understand (and agree) that the game now looks more like recent KOFs, but wasn't it the point of the game to avoid that direction?
I agree that the change of speed fixes some issues. But it misses the original target of the game. Reducing speed was a brave solution to existing issues. If KOF XII did not work with that speed, it rather meant that the system was too shallow or not properly balanced within that given solution. Not that the solution should be abandoned altogether.
Same goes with the Critical Counter, which looks like the typical system-du-jour found in all the random fighting games influenced (and ultimately penalized) by last decade's school of thought. It is true that the HUD appears more polished. But is the CC really bringing anything to the table?
I share some of chaz's sentiments here. It seemed like there was a "slow fighters" mini-revolution going on, what with SF4, BlazBlue and (at least momentarily) KOFXII. Game speed isn't everything in making a fighting game accessible and exciting, but it's definitely something.
I kind of think that certain traditional elements of typical 2D fighting games simply have to be tuned differently when the game is below a certain level of speed. Anti-airs become stronger, because you have much more time to read and react. Overheads need to be relatively sped up or else they are too easily blocked. Poking games can become kind of odd... if anybody played SSF2, you might remember how some of Dhalsim's far pokes became much less useful because they could be DP'd on reaction due to the game speed... but dramatically speeding those moves up to have the same poking utility that they would in a faster game might prove game-breaking in the slower environment. And so on.
I still think that French Bread's Gleam of Force proposes so many interesting ideas that everybody who loves fighting games should give it a try with an open mind. It obviously draws inspiration from 3D fighting games (maybe even a little Buriki One...), and while being slow (and not slow), it manages to be thoroughly interesting. It's far too radical to be used as a model for what KOF or the sequel to any other traditional fighter ought to be, but at the same time that's probably one of its greatest strengths. For instance, where TvC's answer to how airdashing made mag/storm/sent too powerful in MvC2 is to give everybody airdash, GoF's answer to jumping attacks and the air game in general is to not give most of the cast the ability to jump normally.
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| Spoon 1726th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(8):Game plays like... a KOF game!" , posted Thu 5 Feb 11:23
quote:
the Break-blow series, do you have any experience with them?
Garouden Breakblow didn't come across as very immediately enjoyable to me. It has some interesting ideas (locational damage, bonuses for causing severe damage to a location, a system highly dedicated to striking/grappling), but it feels... I dunno, off. The thing about GoF is that even though it's weird as hell when you first start playing it, you at least have a grasp of "light attacks are annoying and heavy attacks HURT", and that's really obvious right away. In Breakblow, it seems like you can hit each other without any hitstun at times (ever try that Mai Otome PS2 game?), so it's hard to tell what you're SUPPOSED to be doing. There seems to be a nice sort of connection between striking and grappling, but there was this moment where we'd keep doing a quick low attack immediately into a grapple, and even if the grapple was escaped, the initiator seemed to come out with frame advantage, and the loop would get repeated forever, and we weren't sure how to stop that.
So aside from memorizing the commands for how to do some of the powerful grapples and figuring out which techniques dealt damage to the head location (if you completely ruin the head location, you can get a knockout), we weren't sure how to actually play the game well. That's what really killed the game for us.
GoF in contrast, is almost all striking. There's "grappling" among the characters in the sense of dashing into them to initiate Infight, but the result of Infight and the counter to Infight is striking. Yukie bucks this trend, but she's the game's only grappler.
While the "paper doll" look is kind of odd, I really like the animation of the moves. Also, knockouts also have real oomph to them!
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| Spoon 1727th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(10):Game plays like... a KOF game!" , posted Fri 6 Feb 07:39
quote:
Thanks for the detailed answer! I want to get my hands on breakblow just to see what it's like.
GoF is fairly simple to understand once you get beyond the "can't jump" quirk. Also, I really like the OOMPH that the attacks have.
However I still can't get the hang of playing some of the characters, like the Oendan chick. Her light attacks come out so damn slowly, it's kind of weird. I like the boxer chick and the karate-ka. Also, is there a universal throw move? If so, what is it?
Let me know if you want to play online (Isn't there online?)
Yes, there' online, but online play requires a gamepad/joystick; if you haven't got one detected, it won't let you play online.
Makoto is kind of awkward, and sometimes it feels like fishing for parries is the way to go. Her high parry hits all around her, and her low parry can't be countered in any way (kind of like Madoi's high parry in early versions...). Once she gets super armor, she can try to take some stupid risks (e.g. just run in for Infight as jabs aren't going to stop you, spam jabs because you're guaranteed to be on the winning end against any other jab, etc.).
The closest thing there is to a universal throw versus people who are defending is Infight.
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"Re(1):The KOF XII decembre thread" , posted Sat 29 Nov 23:23:
... And let's not forget that the night is still young, with beautiful spring clothes and with sexy ~ salty ~ shinny skin. 
