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| Time Mage 2703th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
     
|  "Re(1):Newer than the newer SF4 thread" , posted Wed 17 Sep 17:20
quote:
Almost 200 posts in the old one, so we reset.
So the big news now is it seems the latest blog post has revealed that another character is coming to the arcade version. Looks like all will be revealed on the 19th, with the actual character showing up in arcades on the 26th. The hint makes it sound like Gouken, but who knows with Capcom.
I'm really liking SFIV so far, but if they add Gouken my patience will start to crumble. And not only because of a storyline perspective (I have all the retconning done pretty much assumed), but because, gameplay-wise, adding ANOTHER shoto, even if they manage to make him pretty different, will be a bit too much.
But yeah, it'll be Gouken -_-
"News flash big guy: You can wax on wax off all you want I'm still... KICKIN' YOUR ASS!"
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| Time Mage 2704th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Newer than the newer SF4 thread" , posted Thu 18 Sep 04:49
quote:
So besides the retconning, you'd still not want him in even if he actually played differently? I thought the anti-Shoto folks hated the shotos because of the fact that they played similarly.
There is "different" and then there is "different for a shoto". Akuma/Gouki is different from Ken and Ryu, but still a shoto. Dan is different from all three, but Capcom certainly isn't going to go the Dan route with Gouken.
That is EXACTLY my point. You can make Gouken different, and he'll still be at much, as different as Gouki is from Ryu and Ken. I am a very veteran SF player and can name you all the tiny and not so tiny differences between the shotos, but even knowing those, the truth is that they all revolve around the same core ideas.
Making another new character would be much better, heck, just bringing back a non-SFII SF character would be better.
Anyway, it's not like I'll hate the game if when Gouken is released, but I'll be disappointed at their lack of creativity.
"News flash big guy: You can wax on wax off all you want I'm still... KICKIN' YOUR ASS!"
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| Iron D 2985th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Newer than the newer SF4 thread" , posted Thu 18 Sep 13:37
quote:
So besides the retconning, you'd still not want him in even if he actually played differently? I thought the anti-Shoto folks hated the shotos because of the fact that they played similarly.
There is "different" and then there is "different for a shoto". Akuma/Gouki is different from Ken and Ryu, but still a shoto. Dan is different from all three, but Capcom certainly isn't going to go the Dan route with Gouken.
That is EXACTLY my point. You can make Gouken different, and he'll still be at much, as different as Gouki is from Ryu and Ken. I am a very veteran SF player and can name you all the tiny and not so tiny differences between the shotos, but even knowing those, the truth is that they all revolve around the same core ideas.
Making another new character would be much better, heck, just bringing back a non-SFII SF character would be better.
Anyway, it's not like I'll hate the game if when Gouken is released, but I'll be disappointed at their lack of creativity.
So where do, say Sakura and Sean fit in for you? I mean, I'd say Sakura plays significantly differnt even though she has a shoryuken, hadoken and tatsu. Sean has a hadoken that's super only, and shoryu and tatsu variations. But yet I'd say he was different enough to perhaps not even be called a shoto (keyword: perhaps).
I'm not trying to pick on you or anything. I'm actually legitimately curious. In fact, I'd like to know what anybody thought of this.
Er.....
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| Time Mage 2706th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Newer than the newer SF4 thread" , posted Thu 18 Sep 17:12
quote:
So where do, say Sakura and Sean fit in for you? I mean, I'd say Sakura plays significantly differnt even though she has a shoryuken, hadoken and tatsu. Sean has a hadoken that's super only, and shoryu and tatsu variations. But yet I'd say he was different enough to perhaps not even be called a shoto (keyword: perhaps).
I'm not trying to pick on you or anything. I'm actually legitimately curious. In fact, I'd like to know what anybody thought of this.
Hmm... I'd say Sakura and Sean are in the boundary of non-shotoness. Both start from a shoto concept, which is the key here, but are modified enough to be pretty different.
Sakura, while having the hadou, shoryu, tatsu trio, has them pretty modified, and her normals are totally different. They excecuted very well her "shoto by observation" or "shoto fan" style.
Sean, on the other hand, lacks a normal hadou, and his tatsu is barely a tatsu at all. Both versions of his shoryu are also pretty different (more the first one, which was great). However, his normals are very shoto, and he doesn't have enough different ones to hide that fact. He fits very well the "shoto apprentice" role.
So, yeah, I wouldn't consider Sakura a shoto, even if she starts from that concept, but Sean is one, specifically the contrary of Gouki, the "super-shoto". Personal appreciation, of course, but that's how I see them.
"News flash big guy: You can wax on wax off all you want I'm still... KICKIN' YOUR ASS!"
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| Just a Person 1218th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(5):Newer than the newer SF4 thread" , posted Fri 19 Sep 04:13
quote:
That is EXACTLY my point. You can make Gouken different, and he'll still be at much, as different as Gouki is from Ryu and Ken. I am a very veteran SF player and can name you all the tiny and not so tiny differences between the shotos, but even knowing those, the truth is that they all revolve around the same core ideas.
Making another new character would be much better, heck, just bringing back a non-SFII SF character would be better.
Anyway, it's not like I'll hate the game if when Gouken is released, but I'll be disappointed at their lack of creativity.
Maybe Gouken will just be a hidden boss, but not becoming a playable fighter as Akuma did.
IMO, if Capcom plans to reveal any other playable character in the arcades, it should be Seth (who has been there more time than Akuma, after all). I know it's strange, but I really like Seth's design and attacks (except for the weird Super Vacuum-like Ultra Move), and I'd love to play as him in SFIV.
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Iron D 2989th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Newer than the newer SF4 thread" , posted Sat 20 Sep 11:31
quote:
So where do, say Sakura and Sean fit in for you? I mean, I'd say Sakura plays significantly differnt even though she has a shoryuken, hadoken and tatsu. Sean has a hadoken that's super only, and shoryu and tatsu variations. But yet I'd say he was different enough to perhaps not even be called a shoto (keyword: perhaps).
I'm not trying to pick on you or anything. I'm actually legitimately curious. In fact, I'd like to know what anybody thought of this.
Hmm... I'd say Sakura and Sean are in the boundary of non-shotoness. Both start from a shoto concept, which is the key here, but are modified enough to be pretty different.
Sakura, while having the hadou, shoryu, tatsu trio, has them pretty modified, and her normals are totally different. They excecuted very well her "shoto by observation" or "shoto fan" style.
Sean, on the other hand, lacks a normal hadou, and his tatsu is barely a tatsu at all. Both versions of his shoryu are also pretty different (more the first one, which was great). However, his normals are very shoto, and he doesn't have enough different ones to hide that fact. He fits very well the "shoto apprentice" role.
So, yeah, I wouldn't consider Sakura a shoto, even if she starts from that concept, but Sean is one, specifically the contrary of Gouki, the "super-shoto". Personal appreciation, of course, but that's how I see them.
Well put. If Gouken were in the game, I'd definitely want him to be at least as different as these two.
Er.....
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| Just a Person 1224th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):The Master is here" , posted Thu 25 Sep 01:33
quote:
Are you ready?
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/66/goukenlivesvs7.jpg
Cool or lame?
I may be in the minority here, but I'm excited.
Yeah, me too! I know, it's another character that plays like Ryu and Ken, where's the originality, blah blah blah... but damn, IT'S SHENG LONG!!! (okay, I know his correct name is Gouken, but when I was a child people referred to Ryu's master as Sheng Long)
I mean, since SFII people have been eagerly waiting for Gouken to appear and impress us all with his skills (EGM can be partially blamed for that, in both the SFII and SFIII rumors)! I am very curious to watch how he fights, and how hard it is to defeat him (if it's even possible - well, maybe for that Daigo guy from Japan).
But is he a playable character or a secret boss? If he's a secret boss what's the condition to fight him?
And if Capcom plans him to be an unlockable playable fighter, I hope the same applies to Seth... give the blue guy an opportunity.
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Just a Person 1225th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(4):The Master is here" , posted Thu 25 Sep 02:17
quote:
I mean, since SFII people have been eagerly waiting for Gouken to appear and impress us all with his skills (EGM can be partially blamed for that, in both the SFII and SFIII rumors)! I am very curious to watch how he fights, and how hard it is to defeat him (if it's even possible - well, maybe for that Daigo guy from Japan).
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Oh lordy, I needed that..
...very exaggerated, I know. Sorry about that, I got a little overexcited with the news. Won't happen again.
BTW, I forgot adding in my last post: besides all those other doubts about Gouken, I'm curious to find out what's his plot in SFIV. Did he fake his death in SF1? Is he a clone or an android? Was he ressurected some way?
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Iron D 3009th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):The Master is here" , posted Thu 25 Sep 05:14
quote:
I mean, since SFII people have been eagerly waiting for Gouken to appear and impress us all with his skills (EGM can be partially blamed for that, in both the SFII and SFIII rumors)! I am very curious to watch how he fights, and how hard it is to defeat him (if it's even possible - well, maybe for that Daigo guy from Japan).
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Oh lordy, I needed that..
...very exaggerated, I know. Sorry about that, I got a little overexcited with the news. Won't happen again.
BTW, I forgot adding in my last post: besides all those other doubts about Gouken, I'm curious to find out what's his plot in SFIV. Did he fake his death in SF1? Is he a clone or an android? Was he ressurected some way?
Don't worry about Hihihi. It's seems his job is to swoop in and try to kill any buzz that anyone has over SFIV...for some reason.
I mean, there are those that don't like some games, and then there's those that seem to make it their goal in life to sour everyone else's expectations with said game.
Er.....
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| Sensenic 1643th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(10):The Master is here" , posted Fri 26 Sep 17:39
quote:
Nope, Shin Shoryuken. u_u
Plot-wise they'll say Ryuu learned it from him there?
(Oh, but then again he had it on Alpha, didn't he?)
Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but didn't Ryu have the Metsu Shouryuken in A3 that could only become the Shin Shoryuken on some wildly difficult conditions? Perhaps Gouken will teach Ryu how to get the move consistently? It would have also be nice if Gouken would teach Ryu how to make the Shin Shoryuken a bit more useful of a move but I guess you can't have everything.
I did remember later that Alpha Ryuu's was a bit different (not in detail, though, barely played it), so yeah, I guess it might be sth like that.
And hey, it's the Fuckin' shin shoryuken, man. You don't mess with the fuckin' shin shoryuken and go around calling it useless.
 {Shin!
 {Shooooryuken!
You can't have it all... 
quote:
GOUKEN TEACHING RYU THE SHIN SHORYUKEN WOULD BE SO BADASS
Personally I think it'd have been more "badass" if it had been Ryuu's own invention to begin with, though... u.u
You know, to prove he's getting stronger without using the Satsui no hadou, blah blah.
(If it was an ironic post, I didn't catch u.u )
おやおやぁ~
"Farpaitement!"
-Obelix-
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| nobinobita 414th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(6):Re(10):The Master is here" , posted Sat 27 Sep 05:53
quote:
Here's a video of Gouken.
I am so BORED.
Even his voice is boring, too young and uninteresting. But since he's not the only one in the game, it's more of a general trend.
I agree that he sounds too young, but I also think there's alot to appreciate about Gouken, at least from a design perspective.
I think he's the coolest looking character in the game, he looks very much like an Ikeno drawing. Also, I really love his stance, which is the same as a nio guardian statue, just like Akuma (as you can obviously tell from the background in that movie).
If you visit a Mahayana Buddhist temple you'll generally see some statues of the nio guardians, who are 2 muscular warriors that protect the Buddha. They each stand guard with slightly different stances and expressions.
One of them is Agyo (Japanese name) who stands guard with his mouth open making an "Ah" sound, hence his name. Agyo represents the beginning (of life among other thigns), as "ah" is the first sound a person can make in life, and it is also the first sound in the sanskrit alphabet. Gouken has Agyo's stance.
Ungyo stands guard with his mouth closed in an "un" shape. He represents the end. "Un" is the last sound of the sanskrit alphabet and also represents the closing of the mouth upon death. Akuma has Ungyo's stance. Also, Akuma/Gouki tends to keep his mouth shut very resolutely. He just makes a grunting "UN!" sound for most of his moves.
I'm glad they followed up with this imagery with Gouken. When I used to have fanboy dream sessions with my friends about how SFIV would be, I thought that for SFIV they should age ryu, give him distinct advanced shoto moves and the Agyo stance so Ryu is the new beginning, Akuma is the end (he's as strong as he can be and now finds life is empty). I'm glad they used this idea with Gouken.
On a related note, i really dig this alternate costume for Akuma.
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| Maou 1491th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):Re(10):The Brat is here" , posted Thu 9 Oct 10:07
quote:
She is in the first Nekketsu Seishun Nikki, where you fight her twice in that mode. But strangely, looks like Capcom wanted to retcon her out of the Rival Schools canon, as she's nowhere to be found in Moero!/Project Justice (I really can't remember if you can meet her in Nekketsu Seishun Nikki 2).
I knew it! I don't think you can make her like you like you can other characters...or my character would've, but hey. Then again, I couldn't get my hero Hayato to fall in love with my character either, so it goes. No Sakura in Moero!, but plenty of other weirdos, from what I saw. Never played any but the PS Justices, alas.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| hikarutilmitt 470th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(3):Re(10):The Brat is here" , posted Thu 9 Oct 12:04
quote:
She is in the first Nekketsu Seishun Nikki, where you fight her twice in that mode. But strangely, looks like Capcom wanted to retcon her out of the Rival Schools canon, as she's nowhere to be found in Moero!/Project Justice (I really can't remember if you can meet her in Nekketsu Seishun Nikki 2).
She was in both games and I know that at least in 2 you CAN get her to like you, but you have to do various (easy) things to get to fight her, then you have to beat her and be mean to everyone else. She'll end up liking you just because you beat her in a fight.
Honestly, 2 was my favorite game of the series because it still felt solid, they made some small gameplay changes that balanced it a good amount, Ran and Nagare got added and there was a slew of minigames to play. Moero!... I liked but not a whole lot. The graphics and music were nice, but the game itself felt like a step backward, IMO. The only worthwhile addition to it was the tag feature was expanded to let you have your partners get you out of a double/triple-team.
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| Iron D 3030th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Re(10):The Brat is here" , posted Thu 9 Oct 18:09
quote:
I never had the import, but I can confirm that in the US ver. of Project Justice there was no side-game, no chara creation and no Sakura. However you could unlock 20 or so pre-made extra fighters, one of whom (Hillary) was a direct Sakura clone.
Uhm, SF4 .. relevant .. something .. fuck it.
WTF? I used to play PS1 Rival Schools all the time, and Sakura (not a clone) was DEFINITELY in there, and with an ending. I recall she wasn't part of any other school, but she DID have an ending. It's been years however, and I can't remember what her ending was. I do think it wasn't relevant to the rest of the story though.
The bolded parts should suffice in pointing out your mistake.
Whoops. Got what title we were talking about mixed up with all of the mentions of both of the games in this trhead.
quote:
You missed what I was trying to get across here. Perhaps what I should have said was "SHOULD BE at least in her early 20s".
It doesn't change my response.
Okay. You don't like the fake Sakura redesign. Fine.
I, on the other hand, would have liked to have seen some sort of updated Sakura that somehow fit into the story. BUT, I realize this is a fighting game and that looking for any sort of coherence is pointless. Just wishful thinking.
So basically, I'm seeing that SFIV on home systems will be a dream match.
Er.....
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| Just a Person 1237th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Cammy: in or out? Make up your mind, Ono..." , posted Fri 10 Oct 21:47
As you know, at Comic-Con it was revealed that Cammy had won the poll to decide which character should be added to the PS3/X360/PC versions of SFIV, right?
Okay, so in August, at the Leipzig Games Convention, 1UP talked to Ono about Cammy, and here's what he said: "As you know, we allowed people to vote on which character they most wanted to see in the console version, and Cammy won, so she's definitely in the game. We have a rough version of her already up and running."
Well, guess what. 1UP talked to Ono again at the Tokyo Game Show, about which new characters would be added to SFIV. Here's what he said about Cammy: "Cammy's appearance in the anime has touched off a lot of talk about how she'll be the next new character, but we still haven't decided on anything yet, so let's call it TBA for now."
Okay, so have I misunderstood him, or did he just "un"-confirmed Cammy? I think it's quite frustrating to say a character will definitely be in, then say you're not sure yet if the character will be in or not. Even though it's quite certain that Cammy will be added to the game, the "un"-confirmation of her in the game is a real shame...
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Grave 1131th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(3):Cammy: in or out? Make up your mind, On" , posted Sat 11 Oct 01:03
To best serve the game? Doubtful. To best serve ST fans who fear and hate change? Yeah, that's probably more like it. The whole thing thus far has been one long, sloppy blowjob to people still hung up on the SF2 games, and it's still kind of disappointing to me because I thought that was what HDR was supposed to be. Even though that's looking more like an awkward, painful BJ with braces, or one of those Riley Mason ones where she tucks her lips in and it looks like the worst thing ever... um, what was I saying?
Yeah. I'm still really excited to play the game, don't get me wrong, but I'm sick of the treatment of SF3 fans and I'm sick of the lazy, boring cast. Okay, so now even the SFA fans have somebody. What do the SF3 fans get? We have... a couple of Urien/Gill moves on Seth with no explanation. Uh huh. Announce a SF3 character so I can shut up already. All this complaining is getting exhausting.
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| Tai-Pan 300th Post
Bronze Customer
| "Re(4):Cammy: in or out? Make up your mind, On" , posted Sun 12 Oct 04:08
quote:
To best serve the game? Doubtful. To best serve ST fans who fear and hate change? Yeah, that's probably more like it. The whole thing thus far has been one long, sloppy blowjob to people still hung up on the SF2 games, and it's still kind of disappointing to me because I thought that was what HDR was supposed to be. Even though that's looking more like an awkward, painful BJ with braces, or one of those Riley Mason ones where she tucks her lips in and it looks like the worst thing ever... um, what was I saying?
Yeah. I'm still really excited to play the game, don't get me wrong, but I'm sick of the treatment of SF3 fans and I'm sick of the lazy, boring cast. Okay, so now even the SFA fans have somebody. What do the SF3 fans get? We have... a couple of Urien/Gill moves on Seth with no explanation. Uh huh. Announce a SF3 character so I can shut up already. All this complaining is getting exhausting.
EXACTLY
"Those who follow the path of a warrior must be ready to die in order to stand for one's convictions live for one's convictions die for one's convictions"
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| Pollyanna 2572th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):Cammy: in or out? Make up your mind, On" , posted Sun 12 Oct 07:44
quote:
I'm very interested to see what Studio 4C will do with Street Fighter. They've been doing some fantastic stuff over the years.
MindGame was amazing, Tekkon Kinkreet was very pretty, Genius Party was beeyootiful, and Kemenozume is the best TV show Ive seen in years, though i guess technically that was Madhouse, but it may as well have been 4C.
At the very least they will do something very visually interesting with the SF franchise.
H-how could you not mention Kaiba!? I was kinda lukewarm on the ending, but otherwise, it's one of my favorite shows of all time.
On the subject of SF anime, though...I remember when the movie came out and you had to pay an arm and a leg to get a copy. I used to watch the last battle like...every day for practically a year. I was so upset when they changed the soundtrack for the English release, because the original had been burned into my mind so well.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Spoon 1641th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(8):Cammy: in or out? Make up your mind, On" , posted Sun 12 Oct 08:37
Anecdote:
At the annual poster sale that happens in the main hall of my university, a bunch of students who were around my age were looking at a CvS2 poster. It was just the Capcom side, and they were naming the characters. They could name everybody from SF2, and nobody from outside of that. If I showed them the 3S roster with the SF2 returning guys omitted, I bet they wouldn't be able to identify even one of them.
Blathering:
Sometimes I get the feeling that with SF, we've ran into something like what comic book companies like Marvel had to deal with: you've got a bunch of faithful who've kept up with all the storylines of some characters for years, and want more story built up with that knowledge and background. On the other hand, you have a bunch of kids who aren't going to know what the hell is going on if they're thrust into that kind of story, and need to start from the beginning. And of course you've got some people who just know of the thing, and little more.
No matter what they do there's going to be people unhappy. But if I were tasked with making an SF that will serve as an entry point for all kinds of people who have had little or no exposure to the game, as much as I love SF3 I don't think I'd do it with SF3's cast. I also don't know how many people are enough of a genius to be able to do it with a completely new roster... though if they did, there'd be little point in calling it Street Fighter in the first place.
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| Baines
239th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(9):Cammy: in or out? Make up your mind, On" , posted Sun 12 Oct 11:34
quote:
But if I were tasked with making an SF that will serve as an entry point for all kinds of people who have had little or no exposure to the game, as much as I love SF3 I don't think I'd do it with SF3's cast.
But to be fair, you'd probably include at least a couple of SF3 characters?
In an SF2-heavy product, you might not want to go with the guys who look too similar... So no Necro (Dhalsim+Blanka). And maybe not even Dudley (anti-Boxer). Possibly not the too weird (No Inspector Gadget, Twelve, or Gill. Mind, I wouldn't have made the SF4 boss, either.) But you've still got possibilities left. (I'd skip Sean too, because the game, heck Capcom as a whole, seems too shoto-heavy.)
Heck, you might even try for at least a token representation of various eras, because you don't know what your audience will remember. (Personally, I'd even include Poison. But with Poison, I wouldn't have Hugo, Sodom, Guy, or Cody return. At least not for a first game.)
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| Iron D 3032th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Cammy: in or out? Make up your mind, On" , posted Sun 12 Oct 12:15
quote:
Blathering:
Sometimes I get the feeling that with SF, we've ran into something like what comic book companies like Marvel had to deal with: you've got a bunch of faithful who've kept up with all the storylines of some characters for years, and want more story built up with that knowledge and background. On the other hand, you have a bunch of kids who aren't going to know what the hell is going on if they're thrust into that kind of story, and need to start from the beginning. And of course you've got some people who just know of the thing, and little more.
No matter what they do there's going to be people unhappy. But if I were tasked with making an SF that will serve as an entry point for all kinds of people who have had little or no exposure to the game, as much as I love SF3 I don't think I'd do it with SF3's cast. I also don't know how many people are enough of a genius to be able to do it with a completely new roster... though if they did, there'd be little point in calling it Street Fighter in the first place.
I actually thought of this before, but didn't post my thoughts for some reason. You probably put it better than I would have anyway.
The above mentioned mindset is why the iconic comics characters don't change much. At one point Commissioner Gordon wasn't a Commissioner anymore, but he was brought back because due to the cartoon series and movies he's too well associated with the Batman mythos.
At one point (actually at a bunch of points) Norman Osborn was killed off, but he was brought back because he's one of Spidey's most well known rogues.
I'm sure alot of the "hardcore" fighting game fans would love to see some big changes in the SF cast, but apparently Capcom is willing to take the risk of alienating those who recognize the characters as they are.
Er.....
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| Count Hihihi
132th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(10):Cammy: in or out? Make up your mind, O" , posted Sun 12 Oct 22:01
quote:
Blathering:
Sometimes I get the feeling that with SF, we've ran into something like what comic book companies like Marvel had to deal with: you've got a bunch of faithful who've kept up with all the storylines of some characters for years, and want more story built up with that knowledge and background. On the other hand, you have a bunch of kids who aren't going to know what the hell is going on if they're thrust into that kind of story, and need to start from the beginning. And of course you've got some people who just know of the thing, and little more.
No matter what they do there's going to be people unhappy. But if I were tasked with making an SF that will serve as an entry point for all kinds of people who have had little or no exposure to the game, as much as I love SF3 I don't think I'd do it with SF3's cast. I also don't know how many people are enough of a genius to be able to do it with a completely new roster... though if they did, there'd be little point in calling it Street Fighter in the first place.
I actually thought of this before, but didn't post my thoughts for some reason. You probably put it better than I would have anyway.
The above mentioned mindset is why the iconic comics characters don't change much. At one point Commissioner Gordon wasn't a Commissioner anymore, but he was brought back because due to the cartoon series and movies he's too well associated with the Batman mythos.
At one point (actually at a bunch of points) Norman Osborn was killed off, but he was brought back because he's one of Spidey's most well known rogues.
I'm sure alot of the "hardcore" fighting game fans would love to see some big changes in the SF cast, but apparently Capcom is willing to take the risk of alienating those who recognize the characters as they are.
Comic books are just telling stories. If Marvel or DC bring back a character, it's usually because that character carries a legacy to the story. Understandable.
SFIV is a game. It shouldn't need to bring any of the old characters back.
Yeah.
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| Iggy 8702th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):Re(10):Cammy: in or out? Make up your m" , posted Wed 15 Oct 23:17
quote:
Heck, if it were that bad I'd think 2d production would have ceased after even New Generation.
They could have if it wasn't tied to the CPS3. You can ditch a game or a series, but a whole board, that's a different story...
But indeed, that team was too powerful at the time. They were too much "art for art's sake", which led to decisions such as postponing 3rd strike just to polish Chunli, to the point that the rest of the team had time to add Remy. In the meantime, Zero3, done quickly by a (somewhat) second-rate team, ended up ten times more profitable than that.
And they didn't fall alone: they were seriously weakened, though they were indestructible, and didn't see the rise of the 3D, led by Inafune's Bio team. After 3rd Strike, the anathema felt on the other 2D teams.
The reason why Funamizu&co left after CvS2, despise its good results, was because it was nearly impossible for 2D artists to work at Capcom anymore.
Times change.
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| Iron D 3039th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Re(10):Cammy: in or out? Make up your m" , posted Fri 17 Oct 02:41
quote:
I seriously doubt it was that bad. If that were the case, why did Cap continue making 2d fighters for at least a couple of years after 3rd Strike? If it was a failure of the proportions you're stating, I'd think that all 2d production would have shut down immdediately, including 2d non-fighting games. Heck, if it were that bad I'd think 2d production would have ceased after even New Generation.
Iggy is correct, the CPS 3 and development on it was a huge failure in every respect (the fact that the board is shoddy as hell and dies if you touch it wrong doesn't help matters either) The earlier SF 3 games were bombs period, and 3S didn't become popular until some time after it had been out, and by then it was way too late to make up for the high development costs.
I didn't say it wasn't a failure at all; the CPS3 being a financial failure is widely known. I was just saying that it alone wasn't the downfall of all 2d at Capcom. For one, Capcom didn't completely quit on 2d games after the CPS3 and secondly, while Cap did focus much more on 3d than 2d after 3S most companies were doing the same thing at about the same time.
Er.....
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| Just a Person 1242th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):New artworks and info on Gouken and Set" , posted Sat 18 Oct 02:46
quote:
new BADASS artworks for Gouken and Seth are BADASS
When are they giving us Sheng Long from SF3? Because Ono.
You know, now that Gouken and Seth are confirmed as playable (and Gouki was even showed as playable at the Tokyo Game Show), I am thinking... Sakura, Dan and Fei-Long (and Cammy, even though Ono wants to unconfirm her) will most likely be selectable by default in the consoles, but will the same apply to Gouki, Seth and Gouken?? Or will they be secret/unlockable characters, since one of them is the game's final boss and the other two are secret bosses??
If the three of them are selectable by default, I guess we'd see only one more additional character (totalizing 24 characters, thus six complete lines at the select screen). But if they are secret, I guess we can count with at least two additional characters, up to four additional characters (as unlikely as it is)...
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Just a Person 1252th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(6):SFA3 character rumor" , posted Wed 5 Nov 04:23
quote:
oh yeah, he did die didnt he? lol
i'm just gonna assume that the hidden characters arent canon to the story at all
If I remember correctly, he was presumed dead after SFZ3, due to him being already very old and having leuchemia. But I don't remember any official source confirming his death, so he may be still alive with no problem with the SF plot (actually, even less problem than in the case of M.Bison or Gouken).
I loved these inclusions (that is, assuming they are REALLY confirmed, since Ono said once he had some character models in-game that could be out of the final cut), Gen and Cammy look great (although it's weird that Cammy's scar doesn't seem to appear in her in-game model in any side of her face, only in her portrait)!
The only sad part is that SFIII fans will probably be left unhappy; after Ono said he didn't want SFIV to have as many characters as SFZ3 had, and considering SFIV currently has (again, assuming Cammy and Gen are confirmed) 24 characters against SFZ3's 25 (28 if we consider Balrog, Juli and Juni), I think this may be the final roster of SFIV... it doesn't bother me at all, but other people may get upset with it.
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Time Mage 2714th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):SFA3 character rumor" , posted Wed 5 Nov 08:03
I didn't expect Gen at all, and I must say I'm pleasantly surprised, for the addition itself, and for the appearance: I think he looks really good. Also, he's always been a very interesting character gameplay-wise, so that's a plus, too.
And regarding Cammy, I think the modeling of her face is pretty good. Normally, SFIV characters faces are not so good when first revealed (Fei Long was the last example, now looking really good), but Gen and Cammy both look great from the beginning.
Also, I love Dan's faces.
"News flash big guy: You can wax on wax off all you want I'm still... KICKIN' YOUR ASS!"
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| Just a Person 1254th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(10):SFA3 character rumor" , posted Thu 6 Nov 00:47
quote:
Now, seems that at least 2 characters have to be announced till the end of the year. And maybe other 2 or 4, if Ono will use some of the harsh models that are left. I hope for at least 2 SF3 chars, but if I know well Ono, the next (and perhaps last) fighters will be T-hawk and DeeJay.
Well, we already have 24 characters, which not only is a high number according to Ono, but completes the select screen just fine. But yeah, maybe Gouken and Seth (and even Gouki, although I think that's unlikely) will be unlockable characters (since they are bosses and all), opening space for more two characters.
However, I doubt in this scenario that two SF3 chars would be added. We can feel lucky if one of them turns out to be Ibuki (I don't know, she seems to be the most recognizable one from the newcomers in SF3, and she's a girl - since Ono said he'd like to balance the genders ratio), in the end.
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Just a Person 1257th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(4):Re(10):SFA3 character rumor" , posted Mon 10 Nov 19:16
quote:
Looks like there's one more SFA/SFZ character to be had....and it's Rose. Ono sez: "No SF3 for you!"
http://www.jontendo.co.uk/gfx/roster.jpg
I wonder what other death character will make it into the game... Perhaps a SFIII character has a chance of showing up if they haven't actually been born in the SFIV time period, and hence they aren't alive yet.
Was she even confirmed as dead, anyway? She seems to be in the same situation as Gen: assumed as dead, but without any confirmation.
Oh well, if it's true (and it seems so; her portrait is quite consistent with the artwork style SFIV has been following), part of me is glad Rose is back (she's a very cool character), and other part of me is sad that no SFIII character made the cut (although SFIII happens only after SFIV, some of the characters were probably already involved with street fighting before the third tournament).
At least it's Rose, and not T.Hawk and Dee Jay. Nothing against these two, but Rose is just better.
(BTW, those jontendo links aren't working here; found the supposed select screen at the Fighters Generation website)
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Time Mage 2715th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Re(10):SFA3 character rumor" , posted Tue 11 Nov 02:18
quote:
I wouldn't be so sure. Remy and Guile play really differently; the real question would be wether Remy's playstyle (or any of the other playstyles: Necro don't play like Dahlsim or Blanka at all) could translate well in a system without parrying. That's the problem with crossovers : I'm not sure Makoto or Urien would fare well outside of 3rd Strike (Urien was boring as hell in Jam).
Much standard characters, such as Dudley, Yun/Yang, Ibuki or Oro would have to be reinvented to fit in SF4. The SF2 characters were much simpler, and SFZero didn't have any clear concept or formula to begin with so its characters translate more easily to other engines.
On the other hand, Vega or Balrog would outright suck in 3rd Strike the way they are now.
In fact, I think Remy would actually be overpowered if translated pretty directly to SFIV from SFIII: Guile's low recovery time on fireballs plus high and low fireballs like Sagat, without parries, makes a really powerful tool in SFIV. That, plus his other options, would make Remy pretty good, at least in theory.
On the other hand, there are other characters, like Elena, who is a poke heavy character, who I think would fit pretty well in SFIV. Alex would also fit pretty naturally, and Dudley too, as well.
If you want my opinion (if you don't, I'm going to write it anyway :P), I think they are reserving the SFIII for a second iteration of SFIV, if things go well. Not only it could be set a bit later in time, allowing for many SFIV characters to make more sense (even if it's pretty much proved that they don't care too much about consistency), but it also could be used to hook the SFIII fans once the ST and old games fans were actually hooked to the game.
Oh, and I love Rose's addition, BTW.
"News flash big guy: You can wax on wax off all you want I'm still... KICKIN' YOUR ASS!"
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| karasu99
1th Post
New Customer
| "Re(8):Re(10):SFA3 character rumor" , posted Tue 11 Nov 02:51
quote:
On the other hand, there are other characters, like Elena, who is a poke heavy character, who I think would fit pretty well in SFIV. Alex would also fit pretty naturally, and Dudley too, as well.
Yeah, I'm surprised that someone like Alex hasn't been included-- he's had a pretty high profile of late, so I honestly have been expecting him.
As a forum new guy, I have to say I'm impressed by SFIV on a bunch of counts, like the animation, art direction, facial expressions, 2-D gameplay, and the few new characters (who fit in pretty well, surprisingly), but I'm disappointed in a few things too-- the SFII-heavy roster, for one. I mean, I was happy way back when SFZ3 was revealed to include all of the SF2 characters, but that was because they had 'bridged' the chronologically older SFZ with the chronologically newer SFII in a satisfying way. But here they've just blown their proverbial wad straightaway. Oh yeah, and Gouken's inclusion is just silly.
But I think you're right about an update in the future to include new characters. Those kinds of updates rarely add more than just a few new faces.
Really, I just don't know where they were going with the roster for SFIV, what they were trying to accomplish, or who they were trying to please with it.
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| Spoon 1672th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(9):Re(10):SFA3 character rumor" , posted Tue 11 Nov 04:41
Some of the things about Dudley would be a poor fit for SF4. His wide variety of juggle combos don't really fit with the rest of the cast, and towards+MK as-is might be just a little too good in the SF4 world.
Necro is also a combo-heavy character, and having him, Blanka, and Sim in the same game might feel kinda weird. Necro's short-meter Electric Snake could be re-tooled into an EX-only move that costs two bars, but to me letting him have ES and some other super he could use as a real reversal dampens the experience of Necro. I'd also be wary of all the hitconfirm ES combos, that would also feel out of place in SF4... sure you can combo into supers in SF4, even with juggles or supercancels, but poke->hitconfirm->super comes across to me as one of the elements they wanted to reduce in the game. Jab twirly punch would almost certainly have to be nerfed in order to prevent excessive abuse of it in a Parry-less world.
Sean would fit fine in SF4, however. Unfortunately, we've already got characters with crackshoot-like overheads, so his appeal might be dampened.
Charge-partition Remy might be a little too good in SF4, since there's no Parry. You could try focusing your way through, but you'd probably get hit by another boom during your forward dash, or if your dash brings you too close to Remy, he might just flash kick you. Anyway, I wouldn't want him in a game where his presence would dilute or be diluted by that of Sagat and Guile.
I think that Elena is the best fit for SF4, seeing as how she is a pokey-pokey character, was not predicated on long combos, doesn't have anything that would make you go "she wouldn't be able to get away with that if Parry was in the game", and fits the "World Warrior" criteria of having a strong cultural motif (and one that is not already represented in the game).
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"Re(6):Newer than the newer SF4 thread" , posted Thu 18 Sep 13:42
"Re(2):The Master is here" , posted Wed 24 Sep 23:03
"Re(1):The Master is here" , posted Wed 24 Sep 23:48:
)...
"Re(10):Re(10):The Master is here" , posted Sat 27 Sep 13:08
who (I fear) will (most likely) put me to sleep as well (unless it is someone completely new). 
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