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| Professor 2485th Post
 
MMCafe Owner
     
|  "Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo Ume spotted." , posted Fri 18 Jul 20:17:
The game is out in Japan and actually getting a lot of players, unlike some other recent games like SSSen and... Akatsuki. Kind of wonder if it can keep holding its popularity though, it really plays old-style.
Most arcades don't have mode select enabled, so the second you toss in your coin, you're matched up with another player. No time for any practice. Can't blame the arcade owners though, because the units cost like hell and Capcom's only selling them by packs of 4.
I went around town to find a location that allowed practice but ended up just watching people play it at Sportsland Arcade because... Daigo the Beast Umehara was there. For a retired player, he was doing really good. He was playing with Ryu and he had a card, but I'm guessing he hasn't updated it with a player name yet? It just said "NO NAME". Total record 68 matches 67 wins, a good Sagat player beat him once. He had about 10,000 points, so that means it takes about 200 wins to earn the black Chunli outfit... youch. People eventually just gave up fighting the Beast and he went through Seth. The ending is done in American-comicbook art style.. I'm guessing Udon is helping out?
It's too early to talk about tiers but I'm hearing that Blanka and Sagat are supposedly strong. I haven't played Blanka but according to reports, Blanka's rolling is hard to counter, plus he can easily hop over projectiles or just go through them with his EX rolling. Sagat, I've used... he simply has long range, and his projectile is pretty fast.
Btw, it's an old-style game so there's no chains, but with precise timing you can connect some of the normal moves, like medium punch>medium kick.
[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 18 Jul 20:55] |
| badoor
39th Post
Rare Customer
 
| "Re(1):Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo Ume spot" , posted Fri 18 Jul 21:25
quote:
The game is out in Japan and actually getting a lot of players, unlike some other recent games like SSSen and... Akatsuki. Kind of wonder if it can keep holding its popularity though, it really plays old-style.
Most arcades don't have mode select enabled, so the second you toss in your coin, you're matched up with another player. No time for any practice. Can't blame the arcade owners though, because the units cost like hell and Capcom's only selling them by packs of 4.
I went around town to find a location that allowed practice but ended up just watching people play it at Sportsland Arcade because... Daigo the Beast Umehara was there. For a retired player, he was doing really good. He was playing with Ryu and he had a card, but I'm guessing he hasn't updated it with a player name yet? It just said "NO NAME". Total record 68 matches 67 wins, a good Sagat player beat him once. He had about 10,000 points, so that means it takes about 200 wins to earn the black Chunli outfit... youch. People eventually just gave up fighting the Beast and he went through Seth. The ending is done in American-comicbook art style.. I'm guessing Udon is helping out?
It's too early to talk about tiers but I'm hearing that Blanka and Sagat are supposedly strong. I haven't played Blanka but according to reports, Blanka's rolling is hard to counter, plus he can easily hop over projectiles or just go through them with his EX rolling. Sagat, I've used... he simply has long range, and his projectile is pretty fast.
Btw, it's an old-style game so there's no chains, but with precise timing you can connect some of the normal moves, like medium punch>medium kick.
good to see that SF4 is attracting a lot of players, even tournament level guys like daigo. I know its way too early to tell but maybe capcom did do the job of pleasing old sf2 players and new sf3 players.
btw, can Seth be considered a balanced character usable on vs play or is he just an overpowered boss?
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| Professor 2485th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(2):Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo Ume spot" , posted Fri 18 Jul 22:45
quote:
good to see that SF4 is attracting a lot of players, even tournament level guys like daigo. I know its way too early to tell but maybe capcom did do the job of pleasing old sf2 players and new sf3 players.
btw, can Seth be considered a balanced character usable on vs play or is he just an overpowered boss?
Thanks for the update! I wonder, are there any new fans getting into the game? Is there such a thing as someone under twenty right now who never played SFII, but is curious to learn how to play SFIV?
Also, are there any screens of the endings floating around? Is it really Udon art for the endings?
Daigo beat through Seth too quickly to make an accurate judgement. But IMO, he didn't seem too overpowering. He has Dhalsim's punch and a move where he shoots multiple Sonic Booms with just one hand (Kinda like Charlie), but they weren't too intimidating at all. Seth's super btw, he shoots a black whirlwind sideways, absorbes his opponent with it, and then shoots them out of that weird circular part of his stomache. Really hilarious looking.
New players getting into SF4? Very doubtful. I didn't see any teens today but did see players in their 20's. It should be summer vacation for kids starting tomorrow so things might change soon. BUT, given how unforgiving the LAN-networked game system is (you just aren't given time to play single player), I kind of have doubts that new players will have a chance to get into the game. Also, the game is pretty slow for the modern age (about the speed of CvS1?), so I'm not sure if young players would enjoy it.
The endings, I'm not sure if it's Udon, but it definitely seemed American style and it's not Capcom artist Edayan or Akiman. It'll post URLs if I find any of them floating around.
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| Professor 2486th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(4):Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo Ume spot" , posted Fri 18 Jul 23:25
quote:
Seth's super btw, he shoots a black whirlwind sideways, absorbes his opponent with it, and then shoots them out of that weird circular part of his stomache. Really hilarious looking.
Is that his Super Combo or his Ultra Combo? Ultra Combos begin with a zoom in the character, if I'm not mistaken.
Still about Seth, okay, he's not overpowered. But do you classify him as a cool boss, or is he out of place in SFIV?
I think it's his Ultra.. looked too flashy to be just a normal Super.
I think he fits in the game just about right, together with C.Viper, HentaiKamen El Furte, and Rufus. Kind of reminds me of World Heroes' Geegus.
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| Red Falcon 6044th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
     
     
     
     
   
| "Re(1):The Fat Man" , posted Sun 20 Jul 13:22:
quote:
... apparently, is kicking a lot of ass, thanks to his Dhalsim/CvS2 Sagat levels cHP, his unpunishable spin attack, and his quick dive kicks.
Fascinating.
Yeah, he's like, SS tier. Zangief is really good too. So is Vega/Bison/Dictator, whatever you want to call him. I'm just surprised that they didn't catch some of this stuff in all those loketests, they knew Viper was crap the whole time and she only really got worse. Still though, isn't this game supposed to be easily patched?
Edit: Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm delighted that Zangief and Vega are really good.
 Best site EVER:Link Here
[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Sun 20 Jul 13:24] |
| Professor 2488th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(4):Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo Ume spot" , posted Sun 20 Jul 17:36:
quote:
it really plays old-style
Old style, huh? Then I'll dominate arcade competition using the following tactic:
Using Ryuken, I'll throw energy balls at my opponents. When they try to leap over them and get me, I'll just hit them with the jumping uppercut!!
Flawless strategy
Beleive it or not, it was the same with lotsa Japanese books of the time. Shoot a fireball and hit them when they jump!
Last boss Seth, so far I've seen him do Dhalsim's crouching feirce, a one-hand Sonic Boom (he can shoot two on the screen), a three-hit Shoryuken, a warp, and his Ultra where he sucks his opponent into his belly and shoots them out. I don't think he's too overpowering as a boss. That round thing in his belly is a ying/yang mark.
The arcades are spammed with Zangiefs. I haven't encountered any Rufus players yet.
So far I like SFIV for what it is. Brings back memories from the 90's. But after three days of playing, I've got three complaints I about the game.
One, for some reason, Capcom apparently shipped the SFIV units under low-resolution setting by default. Which makes no sense because this month's shipments all come with the high-def Vewlix cabinet. As a result, the game looks edgy and ugly in many arcades because they haven't changed the settings.
Two, the link system. You just don't get to practice at all, except in arcades where they give you the option to select beginner mode. What's more, you get linked pretty randomly so sometimes you end up playing against the guy right next to you, which isn't really conforting at times. That also means beginners don't have a chance because they can't avoid playing on a machine where someone's having a winning streak.
Three, the game's speed. It's quite slow, reminds me of the original SF2. But this is just a matter of taste of course.
[edit] Oh, almost forgot. There's one more small complaint I have... the in-game announcer isn't as good as 3rd Strike. It's the same announcer as the trailer from Captivate 08', the guy who says "Are you ready! Are you pumped! You're not scaaared, are you? Don't psyche yourself out maan!"
[this message was edited by Professor on Sun 20 Jul 22:35] |
| Iggy 8577th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo U" , posted Tue 22 Jul 08:07
quote:
that you thought she dies but she was just unconscious...
That's probably what happens. That or they already plan to make a SF4-2 where Guile and Abel go and save her.
In all three endings, she appears to die while giving some kind of information to the other guys. They rush to save her, Abel is stopped by Seth who isn't dead after all, and Guile... I don't remember, but I guess he just stands there screaming her name, or something.
Either way, even without Third Strike, this is a non-issue. It's like ending an episode of Golgo13 on a cliffhanger saying "Golgo is... DEAD" (replace with any random shônen manga and main character, Batman and Bruce Wayne, Bastard!! and D.S., Gunm and Gally, or Dr Slump and Arale).
The only reaction you can have is a simple "ORLY?" or "do they really think we are THAT stupid ?"
On another note, I'm note sure exactly what they did to Dahlsim, but he feels incredibly boring. Almost all of his moves seem useless or lagy.
Maybe I just don't like the engine itself and I need to adapt to it. Or maybe I will just wait SF4-2 and wish they un-nerf him.
Also, wasn't the easy 360° command in other Capcom games as well? Like, all of them? It doesn't feel new at all (the shoryûken one, on the other hand, does).
But I'm tired and maybe I'm just imagining things. I want to go back to candy mountain.
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| Professor 2489th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(4):Re(10):Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo U" , posted Tue 22 Jul 19:23
quote:
Also, wasn't the easy 360° command in other Capcom games as well? Like, all of them? It doesn't feel new at all (the shoryûken one, on the other hand, does).
As far as I can recall, the easy command was 3/4th a circle in other Street Fighter games, which still could make you accidentally jump if yoi're not fast enough with your fingers. This time, it's very, very easy, making Zangief quite a scary character.
Btw Eddy, can you confirm whether Rufus'    from air can be guarded while crouching? I haven't met any good Rufus players so far and it's been pretty easy to beat them as long as I've played a land game.
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| Iggy 8579th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Re(10):Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo U" , posted Tue 22 Jul 21:12:
quote:
As far as I can recall, the easy command was 3/4th a circle in other Street Fighter games, which still could make you accidentally jump if yoi're not fast enough with your fingers. This time, it's very, very easy, making Zangief quite a scary character.
That surprised me, so I tried Third strike (the PS2 version, so maybe it was changed in the port ?) but I still do      to make a hyper bomb. I think I did the same move in that other game in which I played Zangief, but I don't remember what it was (CvS2, maybe ?). Maybe that command wasn't implemented in the SF2 and Zero series?
I also thought the main reason why people barely use 360°s in the Vampire series was because the shortcut for a 360° is  , which makes it a bit more difficult.
Or at least that's what I thought.
Have I been living a lie ?
[this message was edited by Iggy on Tue 22 Jul 21:13] |
| Just a Person 1194th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(4):Re(10):Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo U" , posted Tue 22 Jul 23:44
quote:
Chunli dies.
I know you're not a fan of doing so...but...
ELABORATE.
WHAT???
Iggy, do you mean she dies in her ending?? But... that would be a really stupid idea, and I'm not saying that just because I love her: doesn't 3rd.Strike take place AFTER SFIV?? How could she be in that game if she dies in SFIV??
I hope that's not canon, or that you thought she dies but she was just unconscious...
Capcom killing off a character, preposterous! Everyone knows that nobody dies in any capcom game. Just look at Dr.Wily, Vega/dictator, and Albert Wesker. This is a critical element in the sequal churning machine that is Capcom. They come second to geese's base jumping hobby that he likes to do every time he feels depressed after losing to terry.
But... Dr.Wily, Dictator and Wesker are villains (villains are supposed to come back forever); Heihachi is just uber-powerful. Chun-Li, even being the strongest woman in the world, is just a good mortal woman. If she dies, she can't be cloned, or make a deal in Hell, or anything like that. I hope her ending in the home versions make clear she's not really dead...
How is the scene of she dying (or supposedly dying), BTW?
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Spoon 1600th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(1):Rufus the doofus" , posted Wed 23 Jul 10:37
quote:
you can block the dive while crouching... but other times, the dive kick will actually cross you up.
I guess the more precise question would've been, "is his divekick an overhead", but you've answered it nicely anyway :D
Does he have variable diving angles for his dive kicks depending on the button? And can he crossup cornered opponents with it? Also, do you know if counter-crossup DP motion buffering works (i.e. f,d,db+P all relative to initial facing direction), and if it does how that relates to the df,df,df+P input for DPs?
Nice to see mmcafe representation at the loketests, too! But really too bad that it looks like your attempts to get Viper buffed have been in vain... for now, anyway.
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| EddyT 759th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(2):Rufus the doofus" , posted Wed 23 Jul 10:55:
quote:
you can block the dive while crouching... but other times, the dive kick will actually cross you up.
I guess the more precise question would've been, "is his divekick an overhead", but you've answered it nicely anyway :D
Does he have variable diving angles for his dive kicks depending on the button? And can he crossup cornered opponents with it? Also, do you know if counter-crossup DP motion buffering works (i.e. f,d,db+P all relative to initial facing direction), and if it does how that relates to the df,df,df+P input for DPs?
Nice to see mmcafe representation at the loketests, too! But really too bad that it looks like your attempts to get Viper buffed have been in vain... for now, anyway.
I don't play any of the shotos in the game, but that's a good question. I have been hit out of my crossup attempts pretty regularly. Maybe I will check for you.
Rufus' Dive Kick: He only has one variation, that is done with . However, due to the speed of the dive kick and the fast recovery, one variation is all he needs.
As for crossing up people in the corner with, it may be situational. I shouldn't play theory fighter, but you can check out these other vids of Haitani, the person who was getting win streaks with Rufus at Sega Avion in Namba, Osaka.
Clip 1
Clip 2
Clip 3
Clip 3
Clip 4 (This is from my personal YouTube account... more vids to come)
It's sad for me, because I see Rufus go from suck to awesome, and watch my character (Viper) go from a character with tons of potential (back in April) to possibly the worst character in the game. It has been disheartening for sure. 
I'm not really into the other characters either, so unfortunately I have to live with her multiple deficiencies. To be honest, I felt like quitting this game altogether 3 times now. That's how bad and how frustrating it is to play her.
[this message was edited by EddyT on Wed 23 Jul 10:58] |
| GekigangerV 1581th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(3):Rufus the doofus" , posted Wed 23 Jul 15:27
quote:
you can block the dive while crouching... but other times, the dive kick will actually cross you up.
I guess the more precise question would've been, "is his divekick an overhead", but you've answered it nicely anyway :D
Does he have variable diving angles for his dive kicks depending on the button? And can he crossup cornered opponents with it? Also, do you know if counter-crossup DP motion buffering works (i.e. f,d,db+P all relative to initial facing direction), and if it does how that relates to the df,df,df+P input for DPs?
Nice to see mmcafe representation at the loketests, too! But really too bad that it looks like your attempts to get Viper buffed have been in vain... for now, anyway.
I don't play any of the shotos in the game, but that's a good question. I have been hit out of my crossup attempts pretty regularly. Maybe I will check for you.
Rufus' Dive Kick: He only has one variation, that is done with . However, due to the speed of the dive kick and the fast recovery, one variation is all he needs.
As for crossing up people in the corner with, it may be situational. I shouldn't play theory fighter, but you can check out these other vids of Haitani, the person who was getting win streaks with Rufus at Sega Avion in Namba, Osaka.
Clip 1
Clip 2
Clip 3
Clip 3
Clip 4 (This is from my personal YouTube account... more vids to come)
It's sad for me, because I see Rufus go from suck to awesome, and watch my character (Viper) go from a character with tons of potential (back in April) to possibly the worst character in the game. It has been disheartening for sure.
I'm not really into the other characters either, so unfortunately I have to live with her multiple deficiencies. To be honest, I felt like quitting this game altogether 3 times now. That's how bad and how frustrating it is to play her.
Thanks for the vids. I wonder if Dan will still be a joke character, but still be of some use when he comes to the console.
http://www.capcom-fc.com/sf4/2008/07/post_47.html
El Furte's second costume was showed off on the official blog.
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| Iron D 2931th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Rufus the doofus" , posted Wed 23 Jul 22:02
quote:
you can block the dive while crouching... but other times, the dive kick will actually cross you up.
I guess the more precise question would've been, "is his divekick an overhead", but you've answered it nicely anyway :D
Does he have variable diving angles for his dive kicks depending on the button? And can he crossup cornered opponents with it? Also, do you know if counter-crossup DP motion buffering works (i.e. f,d,db+P all relative to initial facing direction), and if it does how that relates to the df,df,df+P input for DPs?
Nice to see mmcafe representation at the loketests, too! But really too bad that it looks like your attempts to get Viper buffed have been in vain... for now, anyway.
I don't play any of the shotos in the game, but that's a good question. I have been hit out of my crossup attempts pretty regularly. Maybe I will check for you.
Rufus' Dive Kick: He only has one variation, that is done with . However, due to the speed of the dive kick and the fast recovery, one variation is all he needs.
As for crossing up people in the corner with, it may be situational. I shouldn't play theory fighter, but you can check out these other vids of Haitani, the person who was getting win streaks with Rufus at Sega Avion in Namba, Osaka.
Clip 1
Clip 2
Clip 3
Clip 3
Clip 4 (This is from my personal YouTube account... more vids to come)
It's sad for me, because I see Rufus go from suck to awesome, and watch my character (Viper) go from a character with tons of potential (back in April) to possibly the worst character in the game. It has been disheartening for sure.
I'm not really into the other characters either, so unfortunately I have to live with her multiple deficiencies. To be honest, I felt like quitting this game altogether 3 times now. That's how bad and how frustrating it is to play her.
It's certainly awesome to hav one of those Shoryuken "insiders" here at the Cafe. I read your stuff on SRK often (thought I'm not a member) and your coverage of this game has me hyped more than just about anything else. Thanks for the reports.
Although it is disheartening for you to go from loving the game so much to actually wanting to quit.
Er.....
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| EddyT 760th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(5):Rufus the doofus" , posted Wed 23 Jul 22:51:
quote:
It's certainly awesome to hav one of those Shoryuken "insiders" here at the Cafe. I read your stuff on SRK often (thought I'm not a member) and your coverage of this game has me hyped more than just about anything else. Thanks for the reports.
Although it is disheartening for you to go from loving the game so much to actually wanting to quit.
It's a love-hate relationship... I feel like a battered wife. I feel like the situation can change, and I can change it, but then I get smacked around some more and I cry myself to sleep the following night. 
Right now, I am liking it again, because I found out more about Viper's offense. Being able to super-jump-cancel her normal attacks to Ultra can help her out tremendously... if I can get the timing and movements down pat. She also has a fake Thunder Knuckle to go with her fake Seismo... something they must have added recently because I had never seen it before until 2 days ago.
I am also learning to mix it up a lot more than before, and that just like her game persona, you really have to play dirty to get wins with her. She doesn't fight fair with her electric gloves, explosives and other gadgets, so you basically do everything you can to win... and that includes a lot of fakes, throwing and abusing the 2-3 things she can do well when you knock someone down. If you fall into a pattern with her, you will lose.
As one of my SRK brethren from Osaka said, you have to work 4 times as hard to get wins with Viper. If you're into that sort of masochistic behavior, like me, she's your girl.
quote:
It looks like Rufus is strong, no doubt about that. But I do wonder how effective he is going to be once people get a bit more familiar with the SF4 game engine. In all those videos I think I saw only one person back-dash away from Rufus' dive kick. Could you forward dash under Rufus as he came down or Save Attack to take the hit and then retaliate? Would an EX anti-air work?
Besides Rufus love those videos are also a good record of people trying to figure out SF4. Most of the Save Attacks that were being done during the heat of battle in those videos were ineffective. Instead of dash cancelling a missed opportunity most players swung at thin air. A lot of players seem to understand the new game features in theory but because they haven't fully integrated it into their gameplay they end up falling back on SF2 tactics. This video of Daigo playing is probably a good preview of what SF4 will eventually be played like.
Azrael (from SRK) found out about the backdashing as well, but you run out of room eventually. Saving Attack is too slow for people to counter with (like Viper), and Rufus is so quick with his normals that he can dive kick and already mash crouching short well before you could counter with the Saving Attack strike.
We have only touched the surface with Saving Attack. I can see it evolving as the months go by. I have a feeling that there is much more to it than what has been shown so far during these gameplay videos.
It already has proven invaluable to have the opportunity to link Ultras for several characters. It can also provide different options on offense when you cancel moves with this. There's gotta be more to it than that, though.
[this message was edited by EddyT on Wed 23 Jul 22:55] |
| Professor 2491th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(6):Rufus the doofus" , posted Thu 24 Jul 17:05:
quote:
Iggy As far as I can recall, the easy command was 3/4th a circle in other Street Fighter games, which still could make you accidentally jump if yoi're not fast enough with your fingers. This time, it's very, very easy, making Zangief quite a scary character.
That surprised me, so I tried Third strike (the PS2 version, so maybe it was changed in the port ?) but I still do to make a hyper bomb. I think I did the same move in that other game in which I played Zangief, but I don't remember what it was (CvS2, maybe ?). Maybe that command wasn't implemented in the SF2 and Zero series?
Sabo10 is faster than ?
For who? Seeing as how it has to be returned to neutral each time...that's 5 inputs compared to 3.
Toxico Also, "jumping" from 270º that's just a major misconception; whenever one reacts from block, or kara cancel or any kind of cancel
EddyT It's a love-hate relationship... I feel like a battered wife. I feel like the situation can change, and I can change it, but then I get smacked around some more and I cry myself to sleep the following night.
Iggy:
I didn't know it worked in 3rd Strike as well, thanks for telling me.
Sabo10:
No, it's not fast. In fact I don't see much a use for it other than for real beginners that can't do Dragon punches. Still, it's nevertheless interesting that such a weird command does an uppercut motion. Tried with with Ryu and Sagat as well, it works.
Toxico:
That makes sense!
Eddy:
Have you tried checking the Shitaraba BBS C.Viper threads? It might be a bit hard to read but I'm sure you'll figure it out after a while. There's probably a few posts that ought to help you out in making the best use out of Viper. Try reading from around 7/20, when people have started figuring out how to use her.
http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/44889/1215950987/
[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 24 Jul 19:36] |
| Just a Person 1198th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(1):Cammy" , posted Fri 25 Jul 22:59:
quote:
It's a love-hate relationship... I feel like a battered wife. I feel like the situation can change, and I can change it, but then I get smacked around some more and I cry myself to sleep the following night.
As one of my SRK brethren from Osaka said, you have to work 4 times as hard to get wins with Viper. If you're into that sort of masochistic behavior, like me, she's your girl.
That's a shame... At first I didn't like Viper, but now she seems to be such a cool design, her attacks are so badass... let's hope the console versions (and, who knows, future arcade revisions) make her more effective in combat (and Rufus, a little less effective - although I'm quite glad to know he's a great fighter, after all).
I'll be playing with her, nevertheless; she, Chun-Li and Rufus are the three characters I'm interested in using at the arcades.
quote:
I hope that's ironic.
But yeah, the endings just tries unconvincingly to make you believe she's dead. That's nothing like Vega/dictator's face disintegrating in most of Zero3 endings.
It's not, really. Some people at GameFAQs just write stupid things, mistranslate passages from the game (though I can't blame them on that, since I don't understand Japanese, either), stuff like that. Anyway, I'm glad to know the ending doesn't make clear if she's really dead (and that she doesn't disintegrate!!).
Although I love Chun-Li, her death wouldn't bother me had it happened after SFIII:3rd.Strike (it would be sad, sure, but an heroic death would be a nice ending to her). But in SFIV, it would completely mess her story.
-----
About Cammy, I'm glad she's back (I hope her artwork gets released soon)! And although he's missing from this board for a while, I'm sure TalbainEric is really glad himself, as well.
EDIT: Cammy's picture from the new SFIV anime (from the Famitsu website)
I don't get why some places say she's not confirmed yet... Killian mentioned her being the winner of the poll to choose a character to return in SFIV, and why would Capcom put her in an anime if she has no part at all in the game? Gouken is understandable, but Cammy is still alive.
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Sat 26 Jul 05:03] |
| EddyT 762th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(1):Poor EddyT/Kunai" , posted Sat 26 Jul 02:23:
quote:
I really feel for you, Man. Seeing your posts on SRK I really get a sense of how hard you're trying to get Viper to work. The game is still pretty new, so hopefully there's hope yet. I just can't get over how much damage she takes though....ouch.
That vid of the guy winning with Viper was cool and all, but I get the impression that maybe the folks he was playing against weren't all that good.
You've mentioned having a similar situation with Ibuki in 3rd Strike. Did you ever succeed in making her effective at all, or did you eventually just give up on her?
I played Ibuki when she sucked in New Generation, when she was considered top tier in 2nd Impact, and when she was toned down pretty heavily in 3rd Strike. I can do well against most players with Ibuki except for Chun, the twins and Makoto. Yes I did stick with her through thick and through thin... and I still have fun playing her when I pick up 3S from time to time. I think she's a great design with an interesting offense, and I hope that there's an outside chance she will make the IV roster. Highly unlikely, though.
The more I play Viper, the more I start to wonder... she has a lot of interesting tools, but you don't have much room for error. I discovered a lot of stuff about her in the past week, and it has piqued my interest once again... it'll be a while before I actually set up some solid gameplans, though.
Oh yeah, her new outfit is proody hot.
[this message was edited by EddyT on Sat 26 Jul 02:26] |
| EddyT 763th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(3):Poor EddyT/Kunai" , posted Sat 26 Jul 03:08:
quote:
EddyT:
I played Ibuki when she sucked in New Generation
Er, when was this ever the case? Ibuki was considered one of the best characters in NG since the beta version; and that was before they found her one-button infinite and stupidly good SAIII.
Concerning Viper, you say she has a fake Thunder Knuckle and Fake Seismic Hammer? How are these done? They don't seem to be listed on Capcom's JPN SF4 command page for Viper. :/
Really? Are you talking about the standing back + HK launcher that you can do forever? If so, yeah I guess that is a little broken. :P
I shoulda said the game sucked, not Ibuki sucked in it. Boy it's late. I'm sorry
Fake Thunder Knuckle is qcb + weak punch, then immediately hit two punch buttons afterwards. Seismo is the same deal, but with dragon punch motion with stick instead of qcb. You can also fake a standing fierce into a seismo, thunder knuckle or flame kick. All you have to do is hit fierce punch while the stick is in the neutral position (do not stand next to opponent), then immediately do the motion for the special move. It's kind of a weird fake, but hey, it's there... maybe there is a use for it.
[this message was edited by EddyT on Sat 26 Jul 03:14] |
| Just a Person 1198th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(1):New anime trailer form Comic-On" , posted Mon 28 Jul 00:32
quote:
In this new trailer (starting from 2:50) we'll see another roster addition to the console version: the obviously definitely certain given Cammy. I like to use her and I'm quite a decent Cammy player but she's another SF2 character so I find this addition very boring and uninteresting.
Also, Dudley wins the poll on the Capcom side about the next addition in the console version, but apparently Ono states he has no intentions to add him in the roster.
Ahhwww, this game seems TOO MUCH Shin Super Street Fighter II: the yankee chosen...
Well, Cammy is a woman, so at least the male/female ratio is a little less unbalanced.
About Dudley, if I remember correctly, Capcom never said they were selecting new characters from the poll he won (it was just a "Which character would you like to see in SFIV?" poll; it didn't even say if they were talking about arcade or home consoles). The poll which Cammy won was preceded by a text mentioning Ono wanted us to select someone to be added to the home versions roster.
I don't know if the following information is true, but I've read someone at SRK.com (maybe EddyT has read it, too) saying that Ono told someone that every character from this second poll would be added to the game (the person who posted this seems to have deleted the post, though). If that is true (and I hope so!), Ibuki and Hugo will be added to SFIV as well, so SFIII would have some representation in SFIV, after all.
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Nekros
68th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):New anime trailer form Comic-On" , posted Mon 28 Jul 02:13:
quote:
I don't know if the following information is true, but I've read someone at SRK.com (maybe EddyT has read it, too) saying that Ono told someone that every character from this second poll would be added to the game (the person who posted this seems to have deleted the post, though). If that is true (and I hope so!), Ibuki and Hugo will be added to SFIV as well, so SFIII would have some representation in SFIV, after all.
That sounds awful!
I mean, look at what we have if true:
- The entire cast of Super Turbo
- 5 new characters, quite well introduced
- 2 more shoto clones (and Gouki?)
- The SF3 low-tier kunoichi
- Hugo (it's ok to me but not as Dudley/Elena)
Not what I call a brilliant cast. SF Zero 3 had the same characters of SSF2 but with LOTS of new faces and gameplay variations, I sincerely hope that guy from SRK is wrong.
Come on, TODAY DeeJay and T-Hawk!? °_°
[this message was edited by Nekros on Mon 28 Jul 02:15] |
| Just a Person 1205th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "The arcade may have a hidden boss, after all" , posted Tue 12 Aug 22:55
The Japanese SFIV blog was updated again.
I don't understand Japanese, but here's a (confuse) translation by a member from SRK.com:
"Something's happening!" Project Manager: Shiozawa Natsuki
Yo, everybody, sup!
Have you been watching the Beijing Olympics?
It started with an amazing opening ceremony by Chan Imou, and now things are really getting serious, and a whole bunch of lordly battles are playing themselves out in front of us.
Kitajima was all over the news this morning. (Kitajima is a Japanese swimmer that won gold.)
Anyway, things are just getting started! Let's go Japan!!
Street Fighter 4 is going to get pretty hot too!! It's coming, it's coming. Something will happen on 8/15. Something that lots of fans have been waiting for is coming this way!!
It's been a month since the machines went out. I think you've all got in a lot of practice with your favorite character. Now you'll really get to test your skill! Give a testament to the experience, skills, and courage that you've piled up!!
Aim for it, Seth! Defeat him, Seth! And then, the thing that you've been waiting for... Nothing special will happen for a simple halfhearted battle. So, there's only three more days till it happens. So give it your best and Fight!
It looks like from this Friday on, something special will appear by defeating Seth in a non-"simple halfhearted battle" way. I guess it could be a secret boss (that, or Capcom decided to put Seth as an unlockable character).
Who could it be? Akuma? Gouken? Shin Vega/M.Bison? Morrigan in her '90s DarkStalkers 2D sprite?
Anyway, this looks like a great addition! Not only that, it seems to show that additional content can be added in the Arcades via download (after all, this "special surprise" isn't in the arcades yet, so I guess it will be sent to them). Maybe the additional characters in the PS3/X360 versions may also be added to the arcades later, as well...
I can be any person in the world... maybe I'm this person right in front of you... maybe I'm not.
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| Tai-Pan 258th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(1):The arcade may have a hidden boss, aft" , posted Wed 13 Aug 00:12
quote:
The Japanese SFIV blog was updated again.
I don't understand Japanese, but here's a (confuse) translation by a member from SRK.com:
"Something's happening!" Project Manager: Shiozawa Natsuki
Yo, everybody, sup!
Have you been watching the Beijing Olympics?
It started with an amazing opening ceremony by Chan Imou, and now things are really getting serious, and a whole bunch of lordly battles are playing themselves out in front of us.
Kitajima was all over the news this morning. (Kitajima is a Japanese swimmer that won gold.)
Anyway, things are just getting started! Let's go Japan!!
Street Fighter 4 is going to get pretty hot too!! It's coming, it's coming. Something will happen on 8/15. Something that lots of fans have been waiting for is coming this way!!
It's been a month since the machines went out. I think you've all got in a lot of practice with your favorite character. Now you'll really get to test your skill! Give a testament to the experience, skills, and courage that you've piled up!!
Aim for it, Seth! Defeat him, Seth! And then, the thing that you've been waiting for... Nothing special will happen for a simple halfhearted battle. So, there's only three more days till it happens. So give it your best and Fight!
It looks like from this Friday on, something special will appear by defeating Seth in a non-"simple halfhearted battle" way. I guess it could be a secret boss (that, or Capcom decided to put Seth as an unlockable character).
Who could it be? Akuma? Gouken? Shin Vega/M.Bison? Morrigan in her '90s DarkStalkers 2D sprite?
Anyway, this looks like a great addition! Not only that, it seems to show that additional content can be added in the Arcades via download (after all, this "special surprise" isn't in the arcades yet, so I guess it will be sent to them). Maybe the additional characters in the PS3/X360 versions may also be added to the arcades later, as well...
I hope its Gouken..if Gouki shows up..thats gonna be too boring
"Those who follow the path of a warrior must be ready to die in order to stand for one's convictions live for one's convictions die for one's convictions"
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| Nekros
72th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(1):The arcade may have a hidden boss, aft" , posted Wed 13 Aug 17:51
quote:
The Japanese SFIV blog was updated again.
I don't understand Japanese, but here's a (confuse) translation by a member from SRK.com:
"Something's happening!" Project Manager: Shiozawa Natsuki
Yo, everybody, sup!
Have you been watching the Beijing Olympics?
It started with an amazing opening ceremony by Chan Imou, and now things are really getting serious, and a whole bunch of lordly battles are playing themselves out in front of us.
Kitajima was all over the news this morning. (Kitajima is a Japanese swimmer that won gold.)
Anyway, things are just getting started! Let's go Japan!!
Street Fighter 4 is going to get pretty hot too!! It's coming, it's coming. Something will happen on 8/15. Something that lots of fans have been waiting for is coming this way!!
It's been a month since the machines went out. I think you've all got in a lot of practice with your favorite character. Now you'll really get to test your skill! Give a testament to the experience, skills, and courage that you've piled up!!
Aim for it, Seth! Defeat him, Seth! And then, the thing that you've been waiting for... Nothing special will happen for a simple halfhearted battle. So, there's only three more days till it happens. So give it your best and Fight!
It looks like from this Friday on, something special will appear by defeating Seth in a non-"simple halfhearted battle" way. I guess it could be a secret boss (that, or Capcom decided to put Seth as an unlockable character).
Who could it be? Akuma? Gouken? Shin Vega/M.Bison? Morrigan in her '90s DarkStalkers 2D sprite?
Anyway, this looks like a great addition! Not only that, it seems to show that additional content can be added in the Arcades via download (after all, this "special surprise" isn't in the arcades yet, so I guess it will be sent to them). Maybe the additional characters in the PS3/X360 versions may also be added to the arcades later, as well...
Maybe the machines have an internal clock and certain goodies are unlocked only in a specific date.
Peraphs 15/08 both Seth and Gouki may show up.
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| Pollyanna 2549th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Better quality Akuma/Gouki vid" , posted Sat 16 Aug 05:53
quote:
Game looks better and better every vid.
Yeah, I got a chance to play it recently, and I thought it was really great. I would be completely sold on it if it wasn't for the cast. It's especially annoying for me because I'm usually attracted to weird, complicated characters.
To me, supers and EX moves felt really important. Like...probably because things felt kind of "basic" I was looking for something to get me an opening or change the tide of the fight. I found myself using EX moves more than usual because I couldn't wait for the super. Waiting for the ultra (or whatever it's called) gauge to fill up was an act in anxiety as well.
But that's a good thing, I think. I won most of my matches with the ultra move, so it felt good to have something to whip out that really turns things around.
The game really didn't feel as much like SF2 as I thought it would, either. It was more like 3rd Strike with boring characters and no parries.
I didn't play it a whole lot, though...and I don't know anything about anything, so my opinion may not be worth much at all.
I'd like to know if other people who have played it share my feelings at all or if I'm totally off base, though.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| EddyT 765th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(4):Better quality Akuma/Gouki vid" , posted Sat 16 Aug 07:45
quote:
Game looks better and better every vid.
Yeah, I got a chance to play it recently, and I thought it was really great. I would be completely sold on it if it wasn't for the cast. It's especially annoying for me because I'm usually attracted to weird, complicated characters.
To me, supers and EX moves felt really important. Like...probably because things felt kind of "basic" I was looking for something to get me an opening or change the tide of the fight. I found myself using EX moves more than usual because I couldn't wait for the super. Waiting for the ultra (or whatever it's called) gauge to fill up was an act in anxiety as well.
But that's a good thing, I think. I won most of my matches with the ultra move, so it felt good to have something to whip out that really turns things around.
The game really didn't feel as much like SF2 as I thought it would, either. It was more like 3rd Strike with boring characters and no parries.
I didn't play it a whole lot, though...and I don't know anything about anything, so my opinion may not be worth much at all.
I'd like to know if other people who have played it share my feelings at all or if I'm totally off base, though.
Polly, you are right about using EX moves... for some characters, it's better to use EX much more often than to save it and use it for a super. EX moves are really handy in the game, and the fact that most Ultras are fairly useful give you more incentive to use up the Super bar for EX stuff.
You are kinda right about the cast being boring. I play Viper only because the rest of the cast doesn't really float my boat, and at the same time I get frustrated with Viper because she is so weak compared to the others. I work really hard to win games against guys like Zangief, Dictator and Rufus, only to get shut down by several of their moves that I seemingly can't do anything about.
It's unfortunate that Capcom seemingly doesn't care about tweaking the gameplay so that the weaker characters can compete with the stronger ones. There are quite a few many people have seen in SFIV where you say, "Wow, that's actually quite unfair", but there's nothing you can do about it. It's been over a month since the game came out, and they could have tweaked some things by now, but I think all they care about now is getting the console versions out the door, and who knows if even then they'll tweak the characters? And nobody knows if the arcade versions will reflect the console changes... I personally doubt it.
It's a good first attempt, but I'm already hoping for better things on the next try.
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| Nekros
73th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(4):Better quality Akuma/Gouki vid" , posted Sat 16 Aug 19:47
quote:
Game looks better and better every vid.
Yeah, I got a chance to play it recently, and I thought it was really great. I would be completely sold on it if it wasn't for the cast. It's especially annoying for me because I'm usually attracted to weird, complicated characters.
I agreed on both states.
The real minus I've seen so far in the game is the lack of RECENT or NEW carachters in favor of the old, abused cast of SF2.
Come on, they appear in lots of fighting games: the Ex Series, Zero3, CvS 1 and 2, even SvC Chaos. I don't think it's wiser remove them completely, but filling the roster with a couple of new faces and some SF3 chars is a clever, fresher idea.
Who cares nowadays about Boxer, DeeJay and T-Hawk for example? If the problem are the "freaky" or "complex" SF3 chars, why simply NOT to put them in SF4 and give a chance to more "human" and "simply" characters? I mean, it would really hurts SFIV if Dudley, Elena, Alex, Ibuki or Hugo are added?
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| EddyT 767th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(3):Re(10):Better quality Akuma/Gouki vid" , posted Sun 17 Aug 20:31
quote:
I fought Gouki yesterday. It wasn't very exciting. He was much easier than Seth.
He'll probably be broken when he's playable.
Why? Damage ratio not seems very unbalanced to me.
Well, there are a few reasons why I worry.
One, double EX fireballs may be really hard to get around, even if they require meter.
Two, I always felt that if Gouki had EX moves in 3S, he would have been too powerful. Now he has EX moves in IV.
Three, nobody has really play-tested Gouki, so crazy combos and/or really unfair tactics may be possible with him. Also, the game hasn't had any gameplay fixes since the game was officially released... so if he's broken, we may have to live with it.
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| Iggy 8612th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):Re(10):Better quality Akuma/Gouki vid" , posted Fri 22 Aug 05:40
quote:
Instead, what I was celebrating was the idea that there wouldn't be any malarky like having a nearly completed Hugo lurking in the coding of SF3: New Generation.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Most developers have to decide to ultimately drop out some elements to ship the game on time. Would you rather the game to ship finished, if "finish" means "we'll never touch it again, and screw those Hugo drafts", or would you rather they ship a beta version that they continuously tweak via an endless stream of patches, a new move here, a new system there, a few balance issues 2 month later, making fighting games developers act like MMORPGs developers ?
If I recall correctly something Ono said a few month earlier (but we know how reliable his interviews tends to be; it's like he's a PR that says anything the interviewer wants to hear without any connection, knowledge, or power on what the game ultimately turns out)(hey, I think I'm on something here), he considered the home version of SF4 like an evolution of the arcade game, which would in turn evolve for the arcades, and so on.
I understand it as : SF4 (arcade) SF4.1 (consumer) SF4.2 (arcade) SF4.3 (consumer)... It's even farther on the track HSSFZX+triple upper.
It could be a profitable way to develop the game, if it's planned accurately in the long term. On the other hand (and if I'm right), I wonder if several small jumps (instead of a few huge leaps) will allow much freedom in deep system adjustments, like each revision of Zero or 3 had.
I'm just rambling here. Maybe I should stop.
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| Toxico 4430th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "...." , posted Fri 22 Aug 14:40
quote:
Has there been a previous fighting game with lots of downloadable patches?
Well, on the PC doujin soft context; of course we might find such examples (Super Cosplay Wars comes to mind, but I'm not 100% sure of how many updates where, but I always knew of people whinning about updates).
I can already foresee updates issues like 'certain parties supporting X1 update while another party sticks to X0,5 update' and the like, things could go complicated if there is some kind of game server that force the updates, and they don't end up being "people's choice".
My take on the issue? I don't know since when people got this beautiful, magical expectations that games are going to end up being fun, perfect, balanced and with 70% visual key cast; Street Fighter IV is a good example of how a game with +20 revisions won't suffice popular nor personal qualms; so it's better to deal with it and try to have some fun; or play "perfectly balanced" chess (wich is good, in it's own personal quiet whisky boosted way).
The only evil of the word; is the one in the heart of men
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| Ishmael 3259th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Better quality Akuma/Gouk" , posted Mon 25 Aug 03:12
quote:
Instead, what I was celebrating was the idea that there wouldn't be any malarky like having a nearly completed Hugo lurking in the coding of SF3: New Generation.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Most developers have to decide to ultimately drop out some elements to ship the game on time. Would you rather the game to ship finished, if "finish" means "we'll never touch it again, and screw those Hugo drafts", or would you rather they ship a beta version that they continuously tweak via an endless stream of patches, a new move here, a new system there, a few balance issues 2 month later, making fighting games developers act like MMORPGs developers ?
I understand that budgets, time and other factors conspire against any sort of creative project being made by a corporation. But with the first SF3 it felt like someone at Capcom tossed that sucker out the door before it was finished. Having 2I come out only seven months later made me feel like NG was a first draft, finding out that half-formed Hugo was buried inside confirmed it for me.
quote:
Has there been a previous fighting game with lots of downloadable patches?
Well, on the PC doujin soft context; of course we might find such examples (Super Cosplay Wars comes to mind, but I'm not 100% sure of how many updates where, but I always knew of people whinning about updates).
Didn't DOA4 also have a downloadable patch?
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| Pollyanna 2550th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Better quality Akuma/Gouk" , posted Mon 25 Aug 10:22
quote:
Didn't DOA4 also have a downloadable patch?
Yes. It rebalanced things a bit, if I recall.
Personally, I like to see those sort of patches in games. If Capcom waits until the 2nd version to rebalance the first version characters, then they'll still have potentially poor balance with the 2nd version characters, which won't be fixed until the 3rd version and so on. From a business perspective, I can understand the advantage, but generally speaking, if they have a network set up and some characters are blatantly over/under powered, it seems like they could do something.
On the subject of "DLC", I love Sega's "download to get what you already have" approach. On VF5, you had to pay money for costume accessories that were already on the disk when you bought it. Then on PSU, you had to wait months for "downloadable updates" that were also already on the disk and ready to go. Their tactic, I can only assume, was to drag out interest in an otherwise uninteresting game.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Gojira 2429th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Better quality Akuma/Gouk" , posted Mon 25 Aug 16:17
quote:
On the subject of "DLC", I love Sega's "download to get what you already have" approach. On VF5, you had to pay money for costume accessories that were already on the disk when you bought it.
You know, this is becoming a problem with online fighters. Herein lies the issue: WTF are you supposed to do if you're online fighting someone who has this DLC that you don't have? Is it invisible, and thus worthless? Does the game have to waste a few minutes downloading it to your drive every time you fight someone with it, thus making it a pain in the ass? Or maybe it should just simply not connect, thus causing DLC to alienate those who purchase it? No, the only answer is it HAS to be on the disc. There is no other reasonable solution aside from not having DLC and making everything on the disc free. It's dumb, but that's all they can do. And because of that, you get people looking at disc content and thinking the cart goes up here and the horse goes back there.
shipoopi
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| Pollyanna 2551th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Better quality Akuma/Gouk" , posted Mon 25 Aug 17:10
quote:
You know, this is becoming a problem with online fighters. Herein lies the issue: WTF are you supposed to do if you're online fighting someone who has this DLC that you don't have? Is it invisible, and thus worthless? Does the game have to waste a few minutes downloading it to your drive every time you fight someone with it, thus making it a pain in the ass? Or maybe it should just simply not connect, thus causing DLC to alienate those who purchase it? No, the only answer is it HAS to be on the disc. There is no other reasonable solution aside from not having DLC and making everything on the disc free. It's dumb, but that's all they can do. And because of that, you get people looking at disc content and thinking the cart goes up here and the horse goes back there.
No, the solution is easy, and it's something I'm pretty sure a lot of companies do. Whenever new content is released, then you have a mandatory download patch, whether you buy the content or not. Then you pay to use it if you like, or don't if you don't.
The downside in this scenario is that it takes up disc space even if you don't use it, but that's a pretty petty complaint, I think. Although you still end up with the "I have it but I can't access it" scenario, in this case, the idea is that the company is putting out new content that could not have gone on the disk instead of just telling you when you have the right to use something you essentially already paid for.
Of course, this would be annoying in a situation where they updated the DLC, like...every other day (and you had no interest in any of it), but that's not a very realistic scenario.
青春謳歌 弱肉強食
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| Spoon 1614th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(2):Edge review" , posted Fri 5 Sep 05:14:
quote:
9/10, if you're a Street Fighter fan that's been waiting years for a sequel.
7/10, if you're a fighting game player without any particular love towards the series.
4/10, if you're more of a GGXX or Melty Blood player.
I fall into the first and 3rd categories (the third one mainly because it's the one game that I've had the most people to play with over the past few years), and I have to say that it's really not my favourite fighting game of the year. It has some enormously entertaining points (the facial expressions), isn't bad to look at at all... but it feels kind of flat/boring, and not just in relation to GG/HnK/AH/other-game-with-hugeass-combos.
Its look is arresting enough and it's simple enough to grab a lot of new players, and that's commendable. At the arcades I've been to, I'm seeing people gather to watch it, and people put money in that I've never seen play before. But I have to worry if that same simplicity is going to affect its longevity. I want to play it again, but not because I enjoy playing it (which I only somewhat do); I want to play it so that I can see what happens to each character when their face gets splattered onto the screen by Seth's vacuum super.
Then again, my opinion is that among all the fighting games that have come out this year that I've played, GOF has the most enjoyable fighting. That includes Brawl, SC4, SF4, 98UM, SBX, SWR, and Kunio-kun Dodgeball. This of course means that I'm insane and should not be listened to.
So on a scale of 0 to GOF, it gets a 6.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Fri 5 Sep 05:15] |
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"The Fat Man" , posted Sun 20 Jul 13:04
(or 
super or can you shove in any direction for the up motion?
"Re(9):Re(10):Street Figther 4 is out! Daigo U" , posted Wed 23 Jul 07:31
move? 