Dammit, Persona 4!! - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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Nate
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"Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Fri 11 Jul 10:46post reply

WHY must this game look so GOOD?!

Videos have started appearing on youtube already if you're curious to see some early plot/bosses/battles. It looks fantastic. Mainly because you can control your entire party again. I'm glad some sanity prevailed at Atlus.

I don't even hate this game's sidekick male character as much as I thought I would. How did they manage to do that?! Dammit Atlus!

So yeah, post here with your thoughts and such on the game. Looks like I'm going to have to play this one, being that it fixed the main issue I had with Persona 3. Shucks.





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"Re(1):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Fri 11 Jul 12:23post reply

I dunno - what I've seen looks too much like Persona 3. I initially adored P3 but it's repetitive nature and slooooow grinding ultimately turned me off. I've only just got back into it - I'm essentially forcing myself to finish the game.

quote:
Mainly because you can control your entire party again. I'm glad some sanity prevailed at Atlus.



I just complained about the AI teammates today!! Good God, they are dumb





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"Re(2):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Fri 11 Jul 13:22post reply

quote:
I dunno - what I've seen looks too much like Persona 3. I initially adored P3 but it's repetitive nature and slooooow grinding ultimately turned me off. I've only just got back into it - I'm essentially forcing myself to finish the game.



When you get down to it, to get anything really cool you had to do tons of grinding (though not on a Dragon Quest level, if you ask me) in the first two/three Persona games as well. Hitting Level 99 in particular took forever once you hit a certain point. Unless you did the "everyone dies except one character" trick to gain a lot for only one person, which even then only worked in IS and EP. I think.

quote:

I just complained about the AI teammates today!! Good God, they are dumb



"Hmm, so you're saying there are items that cure the main character's status? And the main character is charmed right now? I know! I'll use a physical attack and waste a third of my HP instead!"

I don't know what made this seem like a good idea.





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"Re(1):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Fri 11 Jul 19:57:post reply

This game is awesome. I'm really looking forward to its US release.

Incidentally, this game has one of the best title screen I have ever seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNEe5ll4oe0 (at the end of the video).






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Because I am the one that put you into the desert.

[this message was edited by Arngrim on Fri 11 Jul 21:56]

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"Re(2):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Fri 11 Jul 20:06post reply

I dunno, I don't remember grinding hardly at all in Persona 3. I always thought it worked out well in Persona 1/2 though, because you had so much going on. You were figuring out how to negotiate with new monsters, leveling people to get new Persona, getting new Persona into working order, or in 2, making sure your combo move team dynamic was in order. It never FELT like grinding. (But then again, I never tried to get super high level. I never do.)

After a certain point EVERYTHING felt like a waste of time in P3, though. You hit 50 hours, feel like you've done everything you could possibly do 100 times over and then you realize you're only halfway through. Ridiculous.

Hopefully I'll get Persona 3 tomorrow and MAKE time to play it, so I'll post some impressions. The real test is going to be 30 or so hours in, though.

Either way, I wouldn't be too charmed by the beginning of the game. I thought Persona 3 started strong enough. I still love the first couple of cut scenes.


On a semi-related note, the Senko no Ronde artist does the art for the Persona 3 manga. I'd recommend checking it out if you're a fan of his, or P3.





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"Re(1):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Fri 11 Jul 20:33post reply

quote:
Looks like I'm going to have to play this one, being that it fixed the main issue I had with Persona 3. Shucks.



I am just curious to know what was your main issure with P3 that's supposedly fixed in P4?





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"Re(2):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Fri 11 Jul 21:58post reply

quote:

I am just curious to know what was your main issure with P3 that's supposedly fixed in P4?



You weren't able to control your team mates in battle.






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"Re(1):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sat 12 Jul 02:13post reply

Tiny bit off topic but I was wondering to any of the cafers have you guys seen the Persona Anime?

Persona Trinity Souls?

I've only saw the first episode but that's about it as it is supposed to be 10 years after part 3.






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"Re(2):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sat 12 Jul 06:44post reply

quote:
Tiny bit off topic but I was wondering to any of the cafers have you guys seen the Persona Anime?

Persona Trinity Souls?

I've only saw the first episode but that's about it as it is supposed to be 10 years after part 3.



I saw the first episode...thought it looked promising...saw the second...thought it did not look promising anymore...saw the third...gave up.





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Variable Savior
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"Re(3):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sat 12 Jul 07:20post reply

Perhaps grinding isn't the right word. This is essentially my P3 experience:

- Daytime: slowly advance some social link
- Nighttime: go to Tartarus and sloooowly level up persona - the majority of which I'll never even use (thanks to the blessing/curse that is Growth 3)

It just gets so repetitive. At least in P1 and P2 when you were in a dungeon you were usually there for a reason - to advance the story or face a boss; some side quest. You had a goal at any rate. In P3 you go to the 'top' of the section you're currently in and you're essentially stuck circling that area until the story unlocks the next set of floors - and even then you just repeat the process ad nauseum.

I spent time leveling up in P1 and P2 but it never felt like such a dragging process (maybe because you could 'finish' the dungeon if you wanted). This aspect just makes P3's battles seem more like pointless drudgery then the other games (to me at least).

quote:

"Hmm, so you're saying there are items that cure the main character's status? And the main character is charmed right now? I know! I'll use a physical attack and waste a third of my HP instead!"



Man, I've been there.... Here's what solicited my own recent complaint:

I'm at a part now where one of the enemies is immune to Zio and Garu skills and strong against slash and strike. I've got Akihiko and Yukari with me - they both just pass on each of their turns; despite the fact that the enemies are only strong against Aki's strike and are completely suspectible to Yukari's pierce!!!

Even worse once in a while AI Yukari will burn SP points by casting Wind Break on one of the enemies then fail to follow up with a corresponding Garu attack..... Arrghhhh!!! I've tried directing them to attack etc - they still pull the same dumb ass shit. God how I hate them....





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catalyst
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"Re(3):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sat 12 Jul 11:21:post reply

quote:
Tiny bit off topic but I was wondering to any of the cafers have you guys seen the Persona Anime?

Persona Trinity Souls?

I've only saw the first episode but that's about it as it is supposed to be 10 years after part 3.


I saw the first episode...thought it looked promising...saw the second...thought it did not look promising anymore...saw the third...gave up.



Eyagh... Was it dragging by any chance because I had a strange feeling and possibility the anime is going to drag?






This song is so true

[this message was edited by catalyst on Sat 12 Jul 11:22]

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"Re(4):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sat 12 Jul 20:57post reply

Oh yeah, I totally agree that P3 felt like nothing but a grind after a while. If the Commu had been more interesting, it might have been saved, but lots of tiny generic plots scattered among a mostly uninteresting overlying plot with characters that never shut up and rarely have anything good to say killed it. Well, that and the dungeon(s) which was not nearly fun enough to stay interesting for the duration of the game.

quote:

Eyagh... Was it dragging by any chance because I had a strange feeling and possibility the anime is going to drag?



More like it just fell apart. The budget just...divebombed and everything got sloppy. It started to feel like generic mediocre anime pretty fast.





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"Re(5):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sat 12 Jul 21:29post reply

(Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to split these up)

If you people have been watching it on Youtube, there's probably not much I can really contribute at this point, but I'll give my take on Persona 4 all the same.

I've only played a bit, which counts for even less since the game takes like...5 hours to get started, but so far...

Superior to P3 in every way!

I won't say something silly like "Persona is back!", but I do find myself saying "wow...this actually feels like Persona again" from time to time. I mean, it's still more like P3 than 1 or 2, but it doesn't feel quite as like..."stereotypical anime-type" game.

I like the characters, I like the soundtrack and I love the story so far.

So yeah...

PLUS

*Kuma is annoying, but less annoying than he could be.

*The characters have a little more subtlety than obvious stereotypes.

*It doesn't look like crap on an HDTV.

*The method of getting your (first) Persona is brilliant. In a way, facing your shadows so early in the game is a shame because it doesn't leave a trump card for character development later on, but on the upside you grow closer to the characters much faster.

*The ability to nullify your weakness by blocking is a BIG DEAL. Very niiiiice!

*Battle animations are fun. Attacks look much more dynamic, but the battles still move lightning fast.

*As long as you don't go back home, you can fiddle around town all you want without advancing time. The ability to "warp" from one location to another is nice, too.

*Sentai Jiraiya is cool, but looks less like a frog than Chie.

*Despite being silent, the main character still has an implied personality.

*The Mayonaka TV like...base area before you go to a dungeon has totally badass music.

*Commu management and personal stats seem MUCH less restrictive.

*When Nanako asked if the weather lady decides the weather, I cracked up.

*When Igor talks too much and you skip the dialogue (he never has anything good to say) pretend like he's calling your cell phone and you're hanging up on him. It's way funnier that way.

MINUS

*Kuma could still be less annoying.

*It's too early to say if the game is going to STAY good. It could collapse into boring repetition at any minute.

*It could do with a little less dialogue sometimes. Games in the past could create compelling characters with 1/4 this much text. Persona 4 could lose 10% and no one would notice.

*So far the commu scenarios still seem boring. Too early to tell for sure, though.

*Rise's voice is arguably more annoying than Kuma's. Why give your contact characters the annoying voices!? After hearing Fuuka's dub voice, I imagine American audiences are used to being annoyed, but I swear she was adorable in Japanese. I never got sick of...what was it? "Everyone's so powerful!" or something like that.

Conclusion

Too early for a verdict, but even if things go south, it still looks like it'll fare better than P3.





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"Re(6):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sat 12 Jul 23:59post reply

A couple questions:

- Are the enemies recycled from P3 (or SMT3/AT for that matter)? One of things I liked about P3 was that they finally came with new opponents (although old SMT/AT foes did end up as personas...)

- Does the game have the same dungeon set up as P3? That is to say a single area featuring randomly generated levels with wandering enemies





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"Re(7):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sun 13 Jul 07:35post reply

quote:
A couple questions:

- Are the enemies recycled from P3 (or SMT3/AT for that matter)? One of things I liked about P3 was that they finally came with new opponents (although old SMT/AT foes did end up as personas...)

- Does the game have the same dungeon set up as P3? That is to say a single area featuring randomly generated levels with wandering enemies



-So far the enemies are all new.

-It's still randomly generated with wandering enemies, but there are lots of different dungeons. Each time there's a fog, there's a different dungeon with a different theme. Since the dungeons are plot/character related, you have a "last boss" in each them as well as cinemas every few floors.

So...it's kind of a mix between the P3 system and a traditional RPG.





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"Re(7):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sun 13 Jul 09:54:post reply

quote:
A couple questions:

- Are the enemies recycled from P3 (or SMT3/AT for that matter)? One of things I liked about P3 was that they finally came with new opponents (although old SMT/AT foes did end up as personas...)

All the mythological beings are classic, you just CAN'T turn your back on them... world mythology cycles are integral to Atlus' various RPG series! I just don't know what I'd do without my Cu Chulainn and Scathach.. well, read the Tain, I suppose. I find the shadows amusing as enemies, nevertheless. I was delighted by some of the major arcana shadows in P3 (namely Emperor/Empress)

Edit: Oh, and Kuma is awful. I shudder to think what he will be like in the English version.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Sun 13 Jul 10:19]

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"Re(8):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sun 13 Jul 11:42post reply

I'm not opposed to the mythological creatures found in the SMT games - I'm opposed to the reuse of the same characters models seen in SMT3, AT1, AT2, and that other game (Radou and the Army of something?). I agree that the mythology aspect is a valuable part of the series but lets at least see a different depiction please.





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"Re(9):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sun 13 Jul 12:18post reply

quote:
I agree that the mythology aspect is a valuable part of the series but lets at least see a different depiction please.

Hmm, I guess I wouldn't mind seeing new models with new animations(which are probably coming with SMT 4, which was announced.. some time ago now, they're probably doing the models that will be used for another few years afterwards) but I really enjoy the designs that Kaneko created, and indeed many of them have been being used since the 90's. I'd like to see them go back to the classic Moloch and Abaddon designs, which I prefer.





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"Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sun 13 Jul 13:36post reply

quote:

Hmm, I guess I wouldn't mind seeing new models with new animations(which are probably coming with SMT 4, which was announced.. some time ago now, they're probably doing the models that will be used for another few years afterwards) but I really enjoy the designs that Kaneko created, and indeed many of them have been being used since the 90's. I'd like to see them go back to the classic Moloch and Abaddon designs, which I prefer.



Since so many SMT fans seem to be attached to the old designs, I suppose we'll never see redesigns for ALL the demons, but I'm hoping Kaneko does new takes on some of them for SMT4. He's a much better artist than he used to be and I think some designs don't hold up as well as others.

Speaking of switching out designs, I'm glad we have "cool" Loki instead of "muscle" Loki in Persona 4.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sun 13 Jul 13:42:post reply

quote:


Speaking of switching out designs, I'm glad we have "cool" Loki instead of "muscle" Loki in Persona 4.

The new Loki design is an example of a revision I prefer. Some (Like Choronzon) are just lazy, as he used to look different than Legion.

I still prefer many of his older designs in general though, and honestly, I like his older 1980's style.. style more, even if he wasn't technically "as good" (but that's all opinion now anyway, isn't it?) As a side note, I think Odin is somebody else who could do with an update. I like older Thor better, however. And despite Kaneko's attention to little details about these things, he still hasn't done a red-haired Thor, ha ha ha. Ambassador Thorman = rocks.

Also, this doesn't have anything to do with any of this, but... I almost blacked out because of this.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Sun 13 Jul 13:54]

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"Re(3):Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sun 13 Jul 16:43post reply

quote:

Also, this doesn't have anything to do with any of this, but... I almost blacked out because of this.



Holy fucking shit, that almost killed me. It does have to do with SMT, though! I saw the scene you see when you die in SMT II, clear as day!

Also, when it comes to designs, you're a total 80s fetishist. Did you like the SMT remake art?





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"Re(4):Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sun 13 Jul 19:06post reply

quote:
Kaneko

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kaneko not involved in any aspect of the Persona series, beside the recycling of his SMT designs ?





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"Re(5):Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Sun 13 Jul 19:13post reply

quote:
Kaneko
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kaneko not involved in any aspect of the Persona series, beside the recycling of his SMT designs ?



You mean 3 and 4? Yeah. No part.

Kaneko did the illustrations and main character/Persona designs for 1 and 2, while Soejima did the in-game art and supporting character designs...or something like that.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Mon 14 Jul 02:20post reply

These are my scans of some of my favorite Kaneko designs. Taken from his Pandaemonium books. There are more if anyone wants them.

http://www.mediafire.com/?v123lzimyc3





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"Re(4):Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Mon 14 Jul 12:01post reply

quote:

Also, when it comes to designs, you're a total 80s fetishist. Did you like the SMT remake art?

Yes, I am, ha ha ha. I disliked some, liked some. Yuriko/Lilith is vastly superior now to her original version, that's probably one of my favourite changes (I really like Lilith's new design.)

And on a side note,

Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
classic Abaddon's design IS in P4, yaaay! (Oops, spoiler?)

End of Spoiler







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"Re(5):Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Wed 16 Jul 19:58post reply

Variable Savior
Oops. Ooops oops. Correction. I'm an idiot. There are quite a few recycled enemies, unfortunately. A bit shameless, seeing as the character renders are notably better.

On the upside, though...I'm finding the game to play very "smoothly". It's decidedly harder than P3 and yet, everything is much easier to do. It's just pieced together really well...like it took them 2 games to get the system right.

Also...

Am I the only one who played SMT Online? For a free MMORPG, it's surprisingly good! It served quite nicely when I was starved for Megaten stuff.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Thu 17 Jul 15:23post reply

quote:


Also...

Am I the only one who played SMT Online? For a free MMORPG, it's surprisingly good! It served quite nicely when I was starved for Megaten stuff.



Can you sign up if you're outside of Japan. If so, is it easy enough to play without understanding the language and not "buying" upgrades?





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"Re(7):Re(10):Dammit, Persona 4!!" , posted Thu 17 Jul 17:30post reply

quote:

Can you sign up if you're outside of Japan. If so, is it easy enough to play without understanding the language and not "buying" upgrades?



Yes, you can sign up outside of Japan. I don't know that I would recommend playing it if you don't know ANY Japanese, but it's definitely possible.

Unlike most other MMORPGs, you can play alone and still have fun/do well for a while, at least. You also don't have to buy any of the items that cost "real money" to be reasonably successful. I was about to look into spending some real money on the game when I decided "I probably have better things to do with my time."

I might have gotten into it more if I wasn't so awful at typing in Japanese. Actually, I'm just awful at speaking. I can understand okay, but constructing and typing sentences on the fly is rough.





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"Difficulty?" , posted Thu 24 Jul 11:03post reply

Polly: I've been meaning to ask you if P4 is more of a challenge than P3. I really loved the difficulty level in SMT3 (and thought the AT games were reasonably challenging from time to time) but find myself disappointed at how easy P3 is. I liked the more strategic aspects of the other recent SMT titles (need for buffs, dekaja/dekunda) and find that such tactics are largely if not entirely unnecessary in P3. Is the sequel any better?





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"Re(1):Difficulty?" , posted Thu 24 Jul 13:24post reply

quote:
Polly: I've been meaning to ask you if P4 is more of a challenge than P3. I really loved the difficulty level in SMT3 (and thought the AT games were reasonably challenging from time to time) but find myself disappointed at how easy P3 is. I liked the more strategic aspects of the other recent SMT titles (need for buffs, dekaja/dekunda) and find that such tactics are largely if not entirely unnecessary in P3. Is the sequel any better?



Yes. It's definitely harder. Also, you can choose expert from the get-go and make it decidedly hard. On normal, the difficulty is pretty good. Gets kinda scary sometimes. I can think of 3 fights already that I probably could not have won without buffs/debuffs.

But like P3, some of it is about testing yourself. You have individual dungeons with much bigger floors (more like a normal RPG) so the challenge is to see how few days you can clear them in. Pushing yourself to clear a dungeon in 2 days makes it pretty difficult. Your "deadlines" are harsher as well (though totally reasonable).

Also, the arcana chances are insane. You can choose to take them or not, but sometimes they're "reverse", which can be bad bad bad. Like...teleport you to the beginning of the maze, or give you your HP back, but take away all your SP. Orrrr....permanently lower one of your Persona's stats.

Buuut...if it falls in your favor, you can get all your SP back (which is practically like gaining an extra day) or have a spell upgraded (like you would get the maha or higher level version).

So, there's a lot of like..."managing the big picture" and deciding which risks you can and can't take when you're playing. I mean, that was an element in Persona 3 as well, but the game wasn't hard enough to make it much of an issue.

There are like...100 things I'd like to babble about in reference to the game, because I'm really loving it, but again, I'm not super far into it and my P3 experience didn't really sour until halfway at least.

I can say with confidence, however, that the game is an improvement on P3 in every way. So far I really like the characters, so that's nice at least. I thought I would hate Kuma, but he's just too funny. His in-battle quotes never cease to make me laugh, no matter how many times I hear them. Actually, everyone's in-battle conversations are really nice. They did it in P3 as well, but in this one the group dynamic in battle is really fun.

So like, if someone doesn't finish off an enemy, they'll be like "damn, someone else finish him!" or "more! more!" when you get a critical hit. Then they say all kinds of things when people are low/down/healed etc. and there's commentary by Kuma the whole time (who freaks out any time anything happens ("Somebody! Do somethinnnnng!")). They say so many different things and they work together so well (almost like they're having a conversation) it's not annoying at all.

I'm scared to death for English version, though. I had that problem with P3 where people would say "Fuuka is annoying" and I'd be like "What!? Everyone else is annoying! Fuuka is adorable!" Then I heard her dub voice and...yeah...annoying.

The performances in the game are good to very good and are sculpting my impressions of the characters (especially Yukiko), so I'm afraid that when other people play the game in English, they'll have an experience I can't relate to.





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