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Maou
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"Gyakuten Saiban" , posted Sun 29 Jun 04:58post reply

So after delaying for literally 2 years I finally bought a DS with Ouendan, DQ IV, and Wish Room aka Hotel Dusk. Wish Room I'm psyched for, and I absolutely cannot wait for Sigma Harmonics in August if only for the music and character designs, but this all reminds me that as I never owned my own GBA, I never played the graphic adventure predecessor of these two games, Gyakuten Saiban.

Any partisans for which games to play? I figure the DS remake might be best, though I hear the new content was bad. Is this the price to pay for updated graphics? 11 games is too many for me to decide.

All disagreements in posts contained herein must be prefaced with 異義あり!!! or OBJECTION!!!





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Grave
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"HOLD IT" , posted Sun 29 Jun 05:07post reply

The DS versions are absolutely fine and only the first game has bonus content, which was quite fun for what it's worth. Plus they're all bilingual! Well, I don't think AA4 is, but the first three games certainly are.





Pollyanna
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"Re(1):HOLD IT" , posted Sun 29 Jun 07:19post reply

To second what Grave said, the DS versions are A-OK, with the only addition being a bonus case in the first game. Personally though, I'd say if you could get the GBA versions cheaper, you wouldn't be missing out on much.

The extra case, although entertaining in its own way, was (in my opinion) extremely sloppy and poorly-written. I felt more bitter than delighted when I finished it. Liked the character designs, though...

If you want to play the games in English, then the DS versions are the way to go, but I would call the English versions "adaptations" more than "translations". Most things are in tact and they did a great job localizing a number of elements, but they did a completely lame half-ass job on plenty of others. I would say if you want the "real" experience, play it in Japanese.

I don't think I have a stick up my ass on this one, but I'd like to hear the opinion of anyone who's played both versions (and understands Japanese, of course).





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Red Falcon
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"Re(2):HOLD IT" , posted Sun 29 Jun 07:23post reply

quote:
To second what Grave said, the DS versions are A-OK, with the only addition being a bonus case in the first game. Personally though, I'd say if you could get the GBA versions cheaper, you wouldn't be missing out on much.

The extra case, although entertaining in its own way, was (in my opinion) extremely sloppy and poorly-written. I felt more bitter than delighted when I finished it. Liked the character designs, though...

If you want to play the games in English, then the DS versions are the way to go, but I would call the English versions "adaptations" more than "translations". Most things are in tact and they did a great job localizing a number of elements, but they did a completely lame half-ass job on plenty of others. I would say if you want the "real" experience, play it in Japanese.

I don't think I have a stick up my ass on this one, but I'd like to hear the opinion of anyone who's played both versions (and understands Japanese, of course).



Agree with this one, Polly, and I find "adaptations" is a good term to describe the English versions. BTW, veering wildly off topic,considering the way "things are looking", are you potentially out of work right now?





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Grave
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"Re(2):HOLD IT" , posted Sun 29 Jun 08:31post reply

From what I understand, you just can't translate these games directly and get everything right. With that in mind, an adaptation or localization or whatever is ideal to me. I'm sure playing the game in both languages is a very different experience, but I enjoyed the ones we got in English a great deal.

That said, with the DS versions, you don't have to choose!





Gojira
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"Re(3):HOLD IT" , posted Sun 29 Jun 13:15post reply

The only thing that struck me about the translations is that they were riddled with inexplicable grammatical mistakes and typos, but I guess in the overall scheme they could have been worse.





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Grave
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"Re(4):HOLD IT" , posted Sun 29 Jun 13:24post reply

quote:
The only thing that struck me about the translations is that they were riddled with inexplicable grammatical mistakes and typos, but I guess in the overall scheme they could have been worse.



Well, yeah! They were really bad in that department, especially the second. And half the assholes on the internet told me I was crazy for thinking so. I need a job proofreading this shit. It's totally unacceptable.

But the actual content of the scripts is pretty good otherwise!





Maou
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"Re(5):HOLD IT" , posted Sun 29 Jun 17:00post reply

These'll be in Japanese. So! Back to which of the many ones to play. Gyakuten Saiban 1 DS, then?





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Pollyanna
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"Re(3):HOLD IT" , posted Sun 29 Jun 18:13post reply

All of the games are sequential and make up one big story, so you'll want to start with one and play all 3. I say "3" and not "4" (even though it's a direct sequel) because...well...it's not that 4 sucks, it's just...not necessary. After finishing 3 I thought "I'm glad it's over, because they can't top this." So while I don't regret buying 4 and I don't regret playing it, I can't say I'd miss it if I hadn't.



quote:
BTW, veering wildly off topic,considering the way "things are looking", are you potentially out of work right now?



Yeah, I've been sort of...halfway out of work for a while now. Just to be careful, I picked up some extra work with Tokyo Pop, but then they laid off a bunch of people and that slowed down, too.

If my connections come through for me, I should be doing well in a month or two, but in this industry (or maybe all industries?) people like to tell you what you want to hear and not follow through with it. So...who knows.





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Maese Spt
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"異議あり!" , posted Sun 29 Jun 18:34post reply

I finished GS3 two weeks ago and I've been wanting to have some good Gyakuten discussion since then.

What I say applies only to the first 3 games, tough. I have not played yet GS4, nor did I make it to the second day of the extra case of GS1 (boring as hell).

quote:

I don't think I have a stick up my ass on this one, but I'd like to hear the opinion of anyone who's played both versions (and understands Japanese, of course).



Our opinions differ once again...

I myself always wanted to ask about this. I remember much rage unleashed here in the Cafe when the first translation of Ace Attorney came out, but now that I have played the whole thing (I'm late, I know!), I don't see where's the beef.

Not that the japanese puns throughout the game are that funny, to begin with. As gross and stupid as "Butz" sounds, the "Yahari" pun is not exactly brilliant. And I thank god Capcom did not let Takumi naming Naruhodo "Souka", as he planned to do... But maybe it's just that おやじギャグ are not my thing.

I do admit that my Japanese is far from excellent, so maybe I am missing some comedy gold moments here but, seriously, I can't see how GS is an "utterly impossible to translate" stuff, or how "if not in Japanese, the experience is ruined", as many claimed when the first news about Ace Attorney arised. Of course I prefer the original version whenever is available, be it a game, a movie or whatever, but I think the adaptation does fair justice to the original in this case.

Not being a native English speaker, I can't say much about typos and whatnot. Thus, my point is the translation/localization itself. Sure, the whole idea of re-setting the action in the USA gets quite stupid when you start going back and forth to Kurain village on the second game, but other than that it does not work half bad in my opinion.

For what's worth, I found the dialogues and, most importantly, the inner monologues, witty and clever enough to give you the proper image of Naruhodo & Co. I got the same impression of each character when playing either the Japanese, English and/or Spanish versions. There were some differences, sure, but our litle butthurt narcissist Mitsurugi was still Mitsurugi, and the always cynical and loudmouth Naruhodo was still Naruhodo, if you know what I mean.

For me, GS is a game about histrionic characters and endless dialectical fencing duels so, as long as that feature is well preserved on the translations, the rest has little importance.

These are my two cents.





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"Re(4):HOLD IT" , posted Sun 29 Jun 18:52post reply

quote:
All of the games are sequential and make up one big story, so you'll want to start with one and play all 3. I say "3" and not "4" (even though it's a direct sequel) because...well...it's not that 4 sucks, it's just...not necessary. After finishing 3 I thought "I'm glad it's over, because they can't top this." So while I don't regret buying 4 and I don't regret playing it, I can't say I'd miss it if I hadn't.


You know what's funny? In Europe, they released GS4 before GS3. In fact, GS3 hasn't been released yet, it's slated for October 8, while GS4 was released this April. >_>

Of course, I'm waiting for GS3 before even touching GS4.





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Pollyanna
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"Re(1):異議あり!" , posted Sun 29 Jun 19:04:post reply

I can't even begin to imagine the logic behind the GS4 before GS3 decision. I used to bitch about Capcom of America, but it looks like we don't have it so bad in comparison.

quote:

I do admit that my Japanese is far from excellent, so maybe I am missing some comedy gold moments here but, seriously, I can't see how GS is an "utterly impossible to translate" stuff, or how "if not in Japanese, the experience is ruined", as many claimed when the first news about Ace Attorney arised. Of course I prefer the original version whenever is available, be it a game, a movie or whatever, but I think the adaptation does fair justice to the original in this case.



I might not have given that impression, but I actually agree with you. There were things I didn't like about the English version, but I think "fair justice" is definitely a good way to describe it. Sure, I hate some of the name changes, some of the jokes and the fact that when I use the Japanese names people don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I still think they made the right choice with the translation. There's no point in having pun names if no one gets the pun.

So yeah, I definitely wouldn't say "the experience is ruined" if it's not in Japanese, just that the experience is slightly different or at worst, slightly compromised.

The thing though, in this case, if the player knows Japanese well enough to play it in Japanese, I can't recommend the English version over the original. From a point of comparison "there's nothing wrong with the English one" doesn't mean anything if you haven't played the Japanese. That being said, I don't think people who can only play it in English are really missing out or anything.





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[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Sun 29 Jun 19:07]

IkariDC
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"Re(2):異議あり!" , posted Mon 30 Jun 01:07post reply

Bought the first two american Ace Attorney games, but the third one is out of stock just everywhere. As already stated Apollo Justice is out now in Europe but not the third one. Does it matter if I haven't played the third one? I want to now if I'll miss something if I play Apollo firs, because otherwise, it seems that if I play it first, playing the third one later will be a much rewarding experience.





Iggy
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"Re(3):異議あり!" , posted Mon 30 Jun 03:09post reply

It doesn't matter, as the 4th one is just a huge pile of garbage that just doesn't make any good to the series as a whole. Fortunately, it also doesn't spoil anything about the 3rd game, so you can play the very best game of the series after the worst to wash that taste out of your mouth.





IkariDC
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"Re(4):異議あり!" , posted Mon 30 Jun 15:35post reply

quote:
It doesn't matter, as the 4th one is just a huge pile of garbage that just doesn't make any good to the series as a whole. Fortunately, it also doesn't spoil anything about the 3rd game, so you can play the very best game of the series after the worst to wash that taste out of your mouth.



Victoly!





IkariDC
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"Re(5):異議あり!" , posted Tue 1 Jul 15:15post reply

quote:

Victoly!



So I bought the game yesterday and I guess I celebrated it too early... I was like, ok I set the DS to English an surely the game will load up in English or something...

Wrong! You can only switch the language from Spanish to Italian! Ok, the game seems to have a decent translation so I shouldn't worry about it. But the voices... Apollo and Wright have some that sound about right and others not so hot. Payne is brilliant, but oh my god... Kristopher is just god awful, I can't stand it...

I hope it doesn't get worse later, I'll regret not buying the american version...





Maese Spt
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"Re(2):異議あり!" , posted Fri 4 Jul 22:58post reply

Pollyanna and me agree. Existence is undone.

But wait!

quote:

So yeah, I definitely wouldn't say "the experience is ruined" if it's not in Japanese, just that the experience is slightly different or at worst, slightly compromised.



The same could be said of any trasnlated work, right! Itīs not just GS>PW. I wonder how great would be reading Romance of the Three Kingdoms in Wenyan Chinese, but...

Also: Ikari, por el amor de dios, how in earth can you like Payne's Spanish voice?!





Pollyanna
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"Re(3):異議あり!" , posted Mon 7 Jul 09:37post reply

quote:

The same could be said of any trasnlated work, right! Itīs not just GS>PW. I wonder how great would be reading Romance of the Three Kingdoms in Wenyan Chinese, but...



Well, yes...but there's a little more compromised than in most games I see. Still, for something so difficult to translate, I think it holds up well enough. It's not really fair to compare it to something that translates easily.





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Maese Spt
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"Re(4):異議あり!" , posted Mon 7 Jul 12:17post reply

quote:

The same could be said of any trasnlated work, right! Itīs not just GS>PW. I wonder how great would be reading Romance of the Three Kingdoms in Wenyan Chinese, but...


Well, yes...but there's a little more compromised than in most games I see. Still, for something so difficult to translate, I think it holds up well enough. It's not really fair to compare it to something that translates easily.



I got your point, but what I was trying to say is that, excluding the puns (which I don't care about, to begin with), I don't really think GS is THAT difficult to translate. But it's just my opinion.