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| Spoon 1573th Post
 
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
    
    
    
    
|  "Re(3):D&D virgin here..." , posted Sat 3 May 09:44
quote:
It this something to be ashamed of?
The answer is no, but this may not be immediately obvious to all people, as sfried demonstrates.
w/re:to his actual question:
The first big problem of any D&D game that is not a video game is that it requires other people to play with. Finding other people that are willing to "play along" and are of a tolerable level of geekiness (this will typically be people who are already your friends, because those are people you can stand) may be a challenge.
The actual rules are to be completely ignored at first. What is important in D&D is that there are two "meta-roles" (i.e. Dungeon Master and Player) that precede your "actual" role (e.g. Fighter/Thief/Cleric/gynecologist). Unless you are starting from rock-bottom with some friends, do not start with the DM's guide. Get the Player's Guide. In the previous editions, the Player's Guide actually explained the rules, while the DM's guide just explained the DM-specific stuff.
The technicalities of the rules are only somewhat important. They may be more important if you are trying to play some pre-built module campaign where players need to know exactly how everything works. For that reason, the best way to get your feet wet is to play as a Player with somebody who knows the rules already as a DM. Unless you are all beginning, the DM actually needs to know the rules. The Players can get by just by knowing what they're supposed to be, saying what they want to do, and letting the DM adjucate what happens.
I'm about the last person to ask about rule-specifics, though, because I haven't played this since elementary school, and I already know that one of the most obtuse systems of the game was abolished quite some time ago.
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| emagius
0th Post
New Customer
| "Re(2): My first time..." , posted Tue 6 May 21:00
quote:
So I finally got to penetrate the depths of role-playing by experiencing a session of D&D...and I still feel unexperienced and utterly confused with character creation (modifiers, etc.) and how certain spells work/ which dice are thrown. It's also too bad that I chose a cleric when they through me right into the heat of battle, which made all of the negotiation skills I chose utterly useless.
Don't worry. The Cleric is the strongest combat class in the game (well, tied with the Druid).
quote:
Can somebody still explain to me how things work in the game?
Generally, it's just roll 1d20, add the relevant modifiers, and compare to a target value (DC, AC). Beyond that, you'll need to be more specific with your questions.
Honestly, though, 4e looks to substantially streamline and reinvent the game. Were I you, I'd either hold off until it's widely available or try to attend one of the 4e demos. June 7th is the big day ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/gameday ), but there are other demos currently ongoing ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080319a ).
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| sfried
152th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(3): My first time..." , posted Wed 7 May 10:00
quote:
Don't worry. The Cleric is the strongest combat class in the game (well, tied with the Druid).
Can somebody still explain to me how things work in the game?
Generally, it's just roll 1d20, add the relevant modifiers, and compare to a target value (DC, AC). Beyond that, you'll need to be more specific with your questions.
Honestly, though, 4e looks to substantially streamline and reinvent the game. Were I you, I'd either hold off until it's widely available or try to attend one of the 4e demos. June 7th is the big day ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/gameday ), but there are other demos currently ongoing ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080319a ).
Is 4e that different from the previous editions? I hear they've geared it more towards combat/ the MMORPG crowd, which can be a good or bad thing depending on how you view it (I've never played an MMO in my entire life. I have so little time to dedicate nowdays and so little money). That said, I just wanted to know the basic rules of D&D and don't really plan on a life-long commitment to the franchise.
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| Nobinobita 333th Post
Bronze Customer
| "Re(4): My first time..." , posted Wed 7 May 10:39
quote:
Don't worry. The Cleric is the strongest combat class in the game (well, tied with the Druid).
Can somebody still explain to me how things work in the game?
Generally, it's just roll 1d20, add the relevant modifiers, and compare to a target value (DC, AC). Beyond that, you'll need to be more specific with your questions.
Honestly, though, 4e looks to substantially streamline and reinvent the game. Were I you, I'd either hold off until it's widely available or try to attend one of the 4e demos. June 7th is the big day ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/gameday ), but there are other demos currently ongoing ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080319a ).
Is 4e that different from the previous editions? I hear they've geared it more towards combat/ the MMORPG crowd, which can be a good or bad thing depending on how you view it (I've never played an MMO in my entire life. I have so little time to dedicate nowdays and so little money). That said, I just wanted to know the basic rules of D&D and don't really plan on a life-long commitment to the franchise.
Seriously, just find a friendly looking group of gamers and ask them to help you make a character and join their campaign. The best way to learn is to play and learn as you go. I've been playing with the same group of people on and off for over a decade now, and honestly, i still don't know all the rules. I am lazy. I just trust the DM to know how to handle things.
The best part about Pen and Paper RPGs is that you get to use your imagination. It's controlled make believe. It's about storytelling, and the fun parts of your personality that shine through as you create a compelling story together.
If you find yourself with a group that will roll their eyes at you and make you feel dumb for not knowing the rules, that's not going to be a fun group.
That said, if you must know the rules, get the player's guide. The gist of it is that you roll dice to determine your success in any action, and the odds are modified by your stats and equipment (and the actions you can take are determined by your job class), but if you want to know anything more specific than that, get the player's guide. Check the local library or bittorrent if you don't feel like paying money.
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| emagius
0th Post
New Customer
| "Re(6): 4e" , posted Mon 12 May 22:15:
quote:
can somebody give me an idea about what they're talking about? I hope they don't expect me to have played WoW or anything like that...
In addition to daily and per-encounter powers, 4e classes all have at-will powers (i.e., "infinite" times/day), often with secondary effects and/or auras. For example, the 4e Warlord has an at-will melee attack power ("Wolfpack Tactics") that grants a free 5' step ("shift") to a nearby ally (in addition to Warlord's attack). Wizards can now toss out "infinite" (limited only by rounds in a day) Magic Missiles and can even use them for AoOs.
Many classes also have the ability to "mark" opponents. For example, the 4e Paladin has an ability to mark an opponent such that the marked opponent takes damage every time it attacks someone other than the Paladin.
Everyone also has far more HP than in earlier editions and the ability to heal themselves ("Second Wind"), even in the midst of combat.
In short, low level characters have many more useful combat options, are hardier, and are more "heroic" than their previous-D&D brethren.
[this message was edited by emagius on Mon 12 May 22:20] |
| sfried
161th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(9): 4e" , posted Tue 20 May 16:31
Just had a chance to play 4E.
First of all, here's my take. "Marking" makes things needlessly compliacted, as it makes improvisational moves harder. Someone explained to me that they are taking the concept of "aggro" (I still don't know what the hell that means) and applying it to D&D. Well, it doesn't work, as the DM can chose to ignore the cost and still attack with the penalty in place.
Similarly, I'm not feeling this healing surge option. You cn only use it once a day, and it coud only heal so many of your hitpoints, whereas a cleric can just keep sacrificing his useless spells and have better recovery.
That said, levels do seem balanced out, and I like the concept of rolling 20 = auto-critical hit. But still, I do think they sort of took away things that made D&D...well, D&D. I'll see how a personal custom-made compaign plays out after its release.
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| sfried
167th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(3):Re(10): More 4E" , posted Sun 8 Jun 15:10:
Played 4E once again.
The campaign was pretty straight forward, this time playing as a Rogue. I felt pretty helpless/useless with the range of my effective actions being limited to a few, such as using a crossbow or doing an Encounter Power, but that's probably because we were all Level 1. In a way, I like 4e's character layout sheet a bit more since you know whhich weapon does how much damage (probably because it's a premade character).
It was actually more interesting this time because it was the DM who volunarily ignored some of the conditions set by the premade campaign because he found our party's solution to a certain puzzle more interesting. I believe this is what I meant by the D&D "feel" I was refering to in my last post. I noticed that alot of times in my previous sessions with 3.5 (which have been going for weeks now), improvization was one of the key things that somewhat made the campaign fun. It wasn't because you had stats to figure out, but more of how intuitively you could think outside the box. Computer RPGs have had a hard time grasping this idea of constantly improvizing for every action a character exploits, so alot of them just focus on things like making sure there are many side-quests, the illusion of choice, and making sure things are not "broken" while still being fairly predictable in the outcome.
Coming back to 4E, my party was going to do use one of the background props as a shield, but couldn't because of something concerning the Player's Handbook. There are still many principles I could not grasp logically about 4E's nature, such as why everyone could heal themselves, and why certain classes like the bard had to be removed.
[this message was edited by sfried on Sun 8 Jun 15:11] |
| Spoon 1591th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):Re(10): More 4E" , posted Mon 9 Jun 18:32:
quote:
Played 4E once again.
The campaign was pretty straight forward, this time playing as a Rogue. I felt pretty helpless/useless with the range of my effective actions being limited to a few, such as using a crossbow or doing an Encounter Power, but that's probably because we were all Level 1. In a way, I like 4e's character layout sheet a bit more since you know whhich weapon does how much damage (probably because it's a premade character).
It was actually more interesting this time because it was the DM who volunarily ignored some of the conditions set by the premade campaign because he found our party's solution to a certain puzzle more interesting. I believe this is what I meant by the D&D "feel" I was refering to in my last post. I noticed that alot of times in my previous sessions with 3.5 (which have been going for weeks now), improvization was one of the key things that somewhat made the campaign fun. It wasn't because you had stats to figure out, but more of how intuitively you could think outside the box. Computer RPGs have had a hard time grasping this idea of constantly improvizing for every action a character exploits, so alot of them just focus on things like making sure there are many side-quests, the illusion of choice, and making sure things are not "broken" while still being fairly predictable in the outcome.
Coming back to 4E, my party was going to do use one of the background props as a shield, but couldn't because of something concerning the Player's Handbook. There are still many principles I could not grasp logically about 4E's nature, such as why everyone could heal themselves, and why certain classes like the bard had to be removed.
That's the thing with D&D: you can do whatever you want in a given situation, and that's what makes it fun to play... it's sort of what I was alluding to when I said that "the rules are only somewhat important".
This used to be epitomized by the spell Cantrip, which basically let you do anything you could think of, but only with very weak effects (say, you could make a breeze strong enough to blow out a candle, but you can't make a gust of wind so strong that it could push a ship... you can make a banana peel for somebody to slip on, but you can't grease an entire stairway... ).
The "healing surge" system did not use to exist; it's new to 4E, probably to alleviate problems with item distribution and healer management (or not having a healer). Disrupting the flow of the game.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Mon 9 Jun 18:33] |
| Baines
228th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(4):Re(10): More 4E" , posted Tue 10 Jun 12:22
quote:
It was actually more interesting this time because it was the DM who volunarily ignored some of the conditions set by the premade campaign because he found our party's solution to a certain puzzle more interesting.
A great GM can make nearly any rules system work. Heck, a great GM doesn't even *need* a rules system. Part of this comes from knowing how and when to apply the rules.
Several RPGs have something the equivalent of "Rule Zero", which is that if the GM (and players) don't like something in the rules, then they should change it to something they do like. Apply the sections you like, drop what you don't, add what you think is missing, take the printed game engine as only a framework to create your own personal incarnation upon.
The biggest problem with designing a rules system is that most GMs aren't great GMs. Many will rely on the rules to even produce something playable, that doesn't devolve into arguments or players walking out.
You have to make rules to cover everything you can think of, because someone will complain about every area that is lacking. Which is an understandable argument when people are paying for your rules system. They want rules that cover everything. After all, if everything comes down to "use your own judgment," then why buy the rules at all?
The spin-off problem though is that if rules are present, most people will use them. The more you make rules for the fine details, the less people will deal with these details on their own. If you write a way to simulate negotiation with die rolls, then people will start rolling their negotiations rather than role-playing them. (D&D tried to address this by giving bonuses for role-playing, but the problem exists across the board.)
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"D&D virgin here..." , posted Sat 3 May 07:39
OUT OF THIS WORLD 
"Re(4):D&D virgin here..." , posted Sun 4 May 14:04
