Most balanced fighting game ever? - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


Original message (2574 Views )

Iron D
2860th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Mon 21 Apr 14:18post reply

What fighting game is largely considered to be the most balanced of them all?

I once heard someone mention SSFIIT as the most balanced, and I've also heard that one of the Virtua Fighters (I think 2) was the most balanced ever. So I thought this would be a nice place to discuss this.





Er.....

Replies:

shin ramberk
338th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Bronze Customer


"Re(1):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Mon 21 Apr 14:47post reply

quote:
What fighting game is largely considered to be the most balanced of them all?

I once heard someone mention SSFIIT as the most balanced, and I've also heard that one of the Virtua Fighters (I think 2) was the most balanced ever. So I thought this would be a nice place to discuss this.



Hrm... My guesses from what I've heard throughout the year are...

Capcom Games
HF, ST

SNK Games
SS2, KOF 98, maybe KOF 2002?

I don't know much about Sega, Namco and Sega-Sammy games.

Maybe we should make a "a completely horribly unbalanced" thread too. The funny thing though is that Super Turbo is the most balanced and unbalanced game (IMO). If you leave Gouki/Akuma as a playable character, the game gets completely broken because he dominates all other characters. If you leave him out it becomes a lot better balanced.

So my horribly unbalanced game pyramid would look like this...

ST - 1 character that beats them all: Gouki/Akuma
WW - 1 character that beats them all: Guile
3S - 3 characters that really dominiate: Yun, Chun Li, Ken
SFA/SFA2 - 3 to 4 characters that really dominiate.
CvS2 - 4 or so broken characters: Blanka, Sagat, Sakura, Dictator
MvC2 - 4 or so: Magneto, Storm, Sentinel, Cable





http://ramberk.blogspot.com

Spoon
1562th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member





"Re(1):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Mon 21 Apr 16:10post reply

quote:
What fighting game is largely considered to be the most balanced of them all?




I've heard that it's Karate Champ, because nobody holds an unfair advantage over anybody else.

Joust is supposed to be quite balanced, too.





Iggy
8469th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(2):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Mon 21 Apr 16:58post reply

quote:
SS2

Except Ukyō, and Ukyō, and Ukyō.

quote:
KOF 98
Except Daimon, Chizuru and Chris. I've heard good things on 98UM balance, though Iori and Krauzer dominate. Well, KOF makes you use 3 characters, so you can always fit a weak one between two powerful others.

quote:
KOF 2002?

Five characters dominate as well.

To answer the question, I think at least one revision of GGXX managed to do the job correctly... Maybe #reload?
Samurai Spirits Zero Special was quite balanced as well. Mizuki was weak and Enja was a good joke, but I don't remember any über-character.





Red Falcon
5999th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(1):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 00:59:post reply

Somebody beat me to it, but Karate Champ. There is no truly "balanced" fighting game outside of that, it all comes down to you finding what kind of stupid crap you can enjoy/tolerate as opposed to what kind of stupid crap you can't stand. For the record, Accent Core is pretty well balanced, although I really dislike it.


quote:
What fighting game is largely considered to be the most balanced of them all?

I once heard someone mention SSFIIT as the most balanced, and I've also heard that one of the Virtua Fighters (I think 2) was the most balanced ever. So I thought this would be a nice place to discuss this.







Best site EVER:Link Here

[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Tue 22 Apr 01:00]

Toxico
4387th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(3):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 01:00post reply

quote:
SS2
Except Ukyō, and Ukyō, and Ukyō.



Ukyo, Charlotte and perhaps Kyoshiro are to be considered "unholy" on spirits 2, how ever due to an engine bug, if one character is at the corner, it becomes almost invincible, so playing the game was just wasting time, when you play long and deep enough, almost every game becomes like this.

It's better if people just learn that the only properly balanced games in human history are the likes of chess, some sports where close (like tennis), but being blessed with physical advantages (big arms and the like) breaks the game :P





The only evil of the word; is the one in the heart of mens

Red Falcon
6000th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(4):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 01:04:post reply

quote:
SS2
Except Ukyō, and Ukyō, and Ukyō.


Ukyo, Charlotte and perhaps Kyoshiro are to be considered "unholy" on spirits 2, how ever due to an engine bug, if one character is at the corner, it becomes almost invincible, so playing the game was just wasting time, when you play long and deep enough, almost every game becomes like this.

It's better if people just learn that the only properly balanced games in human history are the likes of chess, some sports where close (like tennis), but being blessed with physical advantages (big arms and the like) breaks the game :P

Yeah. I find it's best just to not worry about balance issues and go ahead and deal with it. If you worry about people being broken too much, you really probably won't have much fun playing any fighter. And yeah, ST is really well balanced if you exclude Gouki, but it's still ALL match-ups, so you really need to play two or three charas to "play" it. And O. Sagat and Balrog (Claw) are pretty stupid fights for most characters, too.





Best site EVER:Link Here

[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Tue 22 Apr 01:05]

Spoon
1563th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member





"Re(5):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 01:35post reply

The Guity Gear games are quite balanced... except at the top. The top characters always hold some substantial advantage over the rest.

I've heard that the most balanced GG is actually Slash, but that might just be coming off of #R, from which many top/high characters got mega-nerfed. #R Eddie is just... really really strong. He has no negative matchups, at worst only even ones. AC is quite balanced among all the characters below the top, but Eddie and Testament are just too strong... Testament has no bad matchups, and I don't think Eddie does either.





Iron D
2861th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(5):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 03:09post reply

quote:
SS2
Except Ukyō, and Ukyō, and Ukyō.


Ukyo, Charlotte and perhaps Kyoshiro are to be considered "unholy" on spirits 2, how ever due to an engine bug, if one character is at the corner, it becomes almost invincible, so playing the game was just wasting time, when you play long and deep enough, almost every game becomes like this.

It's better if people just learn that the only properly balanced games in human history are the likes of chess, some sports where close (like tennis), but being blessed with physical advantages (big arms and the like) breaks the game :P
Yeah. I find it's best just to not worry about balance issues and go ahead and deal with it. If you worry about people being broken too much, you really probably won't have much fun playing any fighter. And yeah, ST is really well balanced if you exclude Gouki, but it's still ALL match-ups, so you really need to play two or three charas to "play" it. And O. Sagat and Balrog (Claw) are pretty stupid fights for most characters, too.



Let me point out that I ask this question only out of curiosity. As I mentioned in the VS thread, I'm not a tourney-driven tier whore. I play with whatever characters I feel are fun (and for me, that's usually the majority of the cast in any fighting game I play).

Despite this, I've always found tiers to be a fun thing to read about. For some reason, despite not paying much attention to tiers when I play, tier talk has always been really fun. Maybe it's the fact that I've never been a top level tourney player at any fighter ever...

Also, I already assumed that there are no completely balanced fighting games out there. That's why the thread is titled "what is the most balanced fighting game" rather than "is there a perfectly balanced fighting game".





Er.....

Toxico
4388th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(6):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 03:26post reply

quote:
That's why the thread is titled "what is the most balanced fighting game" rather than "is there a perfectly balanced fighting game".



Well, Samurai Spirits 0 Special (and perhaps 0 as well) should be hold high and worshiped as one of the few games where, is fun and; what happens in the game, is what the company wants to happen in the game (no stupid brain dead bugs, unblockables, strong hard to punish chains, low risk ~ huge reward moves and so on); in video game history almost no company can claim that (but every company does), it might be a coincidence that instead of a 'game maker trained crew' the game was made by old game fans who own a video game company.

Recently I heard from a respectable arcade drunkard with wide experience that "the last smash brothers meele is, perhaps the most balanced fighter in history, it's a shame that it's not meant to be played seriously".





The only evil of the word; is the one in the heart of mens

Spoon
1564th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member





"Re(6):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 04:10post reply

quote:

Also, I already assumed that there are no completely balanced fighting games out there. That's why the thread is titled "what is the most balanced fighting game" rather than "is there a perfectly balanced fighting game".



The problem is, Karate Champ throws that assumption out the window because it IS a perfectly balanced fighting game.

So the contest is really for second place, and there's still some value judgement on what is "more balanced": a game that has almost all really balanced characters but with a few that are waaaaaaaay above the rest, a game with slightly less balanced matchups (like many 6-4's rather than all 5-5's) but with more characters forming a "high tier" due to their large number of 6-4 matchups, a game where everybody in the cast has only either 8-2 or 2-8 matchups, etc...

It's kinda hard to make a good metric for it outside of "totally balanced" and "not really balanced but liveable".

I heard SS Tenka was pretty balanced?
I don't know the truth of it because I didn't play it extensively myself. Arcana Heart FULL! is pretty balanced.





Iron D
2862th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(7):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 05:19post reply

quote:



a game with slightly less balanced matchups (like many 6-4's rather than all 5-5's) but with more characters forming a "high tier" due to their large number of 6-4 matchups,




This was pretty much what I was aiming at when I thought of this thread, but for the sake of conversation I'll say that anyone who puts in their two cents can interpret balance any way they choose. Just make it clear which viewpoint you're coming from.





Er.....

Mokona
452th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Gold Customer


"Re(1):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 05:36post reply

I'd say any Dragon Ball Z game out there, since all the characters have the same fucking move list.

I'm kinda kinding. I don't really play these games anymore, I rented DBZ Budokai back when, and that was what struck me, all the characters had basically the same moves, with the same commands (no character specific controls). This made playing the game with several characters really uninteresting (let's say I was glad I just rented that)





Blah!

Nobinobita
317th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Bronze Customer


"Re(8):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 06:01post reply

quote:

This was pretty much what I was aiming at when I thought of this thread, but for the sake of conversation I'll say that anyone who puts in their two cents can interpret balance any way they choose. Just make it clear which viewpoint you're coming from.



When you're talking about gameplay balance you have to consider what level people will be playing at. For instance, if you don't play competitively, most of the Capcom fighters are pretty balanced. For casual play I think Third Strike and even CVS2 are balanced. But for high level play all that goes out the window. But how many people can actually play at that level?

I've been playing SF for almost 2 decades now, but I'm definitely not going to rank at any tournaments (well, i won a CVS2 tournament at an Anime convention once, but that doesn't really count). I love to watch high level play, i enjoy the technique and strategy and theory behind it, but I don't really play well enough to abuse any characters. I can't roll cancel on command, I can't charge partition, hell i have trouble canceling into supers consistently.

I wonder what percentage of people who buy and play fighting games actually are able to take advantage of tiers? I would say out of the 35 or so people I've known personally that play fighting games (as in play enough to have a basic understanding of the system and to learn movesets), maybe 6 of them played really competitively. 6 and one half if i count myself.





Spoon
1565th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member





"Re(9):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 06:21post reply

quote:

I wonder what percentage of people who buy and play fighting games actually are able to take advantage of tiers?



Cable/Sentinel/Commando works at any level of play.

Genei-Jin Yun is worthless at low level play; either of his other two SAs work better.

CvS2 Blanka is good at any level of play!

etc.





Red Falcon
6002th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(6):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 07:39post reply

quote:
Testament has no bad matchups, and I don't think Eddie does either.

Oh, I agree, I just meant they are comparatively well done. Honestly, Testament is one of the major reasons I don't care for accent core, I just find him too tedious a fight.





Best site EVER:Link Here

ZamIAm
1726th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member





"DBZ" , posted Tue 22 Apr 08:48post reply

quote:
I'd say any Dragon Ball Z game out there, since all the characters have the same fucking move list.

I'm kinda kinding. I don't really play these games anymore, I rented DBZ Budokai back when, and that was what struck me, all the characters had basically the same moves, with the same commands (no character specific controls). This made playing the game with several characters really uninteresting (let's say I was glad I just rented that)



Sadly, I can disagree because while the movelists are similar, some characters just do more damage outright while others are missing moves.





Bata kun
3133th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master





"Re(1):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 10:21post reply

"Arcana Heart Full" from what I have heard is just about as balanced as you can get? Except for Lieselotte, everyone else has a shot I guess. Even though Fiona's a semi-boss character, she is not easy to win with overall because outside of her standing hard attack, she doesn't have many effective attacks overall and don't get me started on Yoriko.







うぐう!

Professor
2458th Post



user profileedit/delete message

MMCafe Owner


"Re(2):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Tue 22 Apr 21:15:post reply

I think I'll get smacked if I mention Urban Champion

IMO, Real Bout Fatal Fury (the original one) was an interesting game because it seemed to be "brokenly well-balanced". Almost all the characters had some kind of an amazingly useful move that made them good.





[this message was edited by Professor on Tue 22 Apr 22:49]

Spoon
1566th Post



user profileedit/delete message

Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member





"Re(3):Most balanced fighting game ever?" , posted Wed 23 Apr 01:34post reply

quote:
I think I'll get smacked if I mention Urban Champion



NO FLOWER POTS
NO POLICE CARS
200 LIFE
FINAL DESTINATION