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"SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Match Vids" , posted Fri 15 Feb 16:38:post reply

Not sure how many of you have this, but check it out as its pretty damn cool! They also have Match vids of SF4 now!

SF4 All Character AOU Footage Plus Match Vids





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[this message was edited by repukken on Fri 15 Feb 16:57]

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Just a Person
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"Re(1):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Fri 15 Feb 19:03post reply

Wasn't AOU going to start just tomorrow?

Anyway, I can't see the video in this computer... so please, answer me: by saying "SF4 All Character", do you mean all the characters revealed so far, or the full and definitive roster of the game?





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"Re(2):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Fri 15 Feb 19:20post reply

quote:
Wasn't AOU going to start just tomorrow?

Anyway, I can't see the video in this computer... so please, answer me: by saying "SF4 All Character", do you mean all the characters revealed so far, or the full and definitive roster of the game?

so far.





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"Re(3):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 00:25post reply

Its cool they have skeletons in this 3D game. I thought they were going to go for that generic electricity effect that just covers you.





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"Re(3):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 00:50post reply

quote:
Wasn't AOU going to start just tomorrow?

Anyway, I can't see the video in this computer... so please, answer me: by saying "SF4 All Character", do you mean all the characters revealed so far, or the full and definitive roster of the game?

so far.



Phew, that's better. Thanks for the answer!

Abel and Viper look nice (although I couldn't see the video yet), but in order for this game to be called SFIV, it needs more new characters than that. At least two new selectable characters (and by new, I mean REALLY NEW, not people returning from SF1/Alpha/III), and one brand new boss (Vega/M.Bison may be a secret boss, but the regular one should be someone new). So that we'd have 5 new characters.

Although my wish is for SFIV having around seven new characters. Since the first SFIII presented us to 11 new characters (one of them being the boss, and two of the other ones being almost equal), I think 7 new characters (6 regulars + 1 boss) would be great enough.





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"Re(4):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 01:08post reply

So far, so good. I particularly like how the presentation is coming along. Whether it is the character select screen or the way the camera stays at standard distance during round wins but dramatically zooms in on the match winning animation I'm enjoying the way the game looks.





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"Re(5):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 01:41:post reply

Chun Li appears to have been learning the art of sitting on people from Honda.

EDIT:
New vids at IGN, including footage of the character select screen and the temple stage.

http://media.cheats.ign.com/media/768/768984/vids_1.html

Character select art looks different from any of the art that's been shown so far.





[this message was edited by Gojira on Sat 16 Feb 01:44]

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"Re(6):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 01:46post reply

At the risk of sounding like stefan, where the hell is Cammy. If any world warrior's sultry body needs to make the transition into 3D it is her.





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"Re(7):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 01:49post reply

quote:
At the risk of sounding like stefan, where the hell is Cammy. If any world warrior's sultry body needs to make the transition into 3D it is her.



Amen. I too, would be overjoyed to see her made into delicious 3D.





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"Re(8):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 01:58post reply

quote:
At the risk of sounding like stefan, where the hell is Cammy. If any world warrior's sultry body needs to make the transition into 3D it is her.


Amen. I too, would be overjoyed to see her made into delicious 3D.



She'll probably be added in SFIV, don't worry. After all, isn't Cammy the third most popular girl of SF in Japan (and the second most popular girl of SF worldwide)?

Plus, she even appeared in FF:Streetwise (though I'm not sure if that's a good thing...).





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"Re(7):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 02:08post reply

quote:
At the risk of sounding like stefan, where the hell is Cammy.


Does Stefan still post here?





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"Re(8):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 02:36post reply

quote:
At the risk of sounding like stefan, where the hell is Cammy.

Does Stefan still post here?

Simply invoking Stefan's name is considered bad luck in some parts of the world.

Funny, but while I initially considered Cammy a shoo-in I'm beginning to wonder if she's going to make the cut or not. I suspect that Abel is taking the second grappler spot from T.Hawk. Keeping with that train of thought it might mean that C.Viper could be filling the second female character slot. This is just idle speculation on my part, mind you, but I do wonder if the New Challengers might have been dropped from the roster.





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"Re(9):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 02:47post reply

quote:
Simply invoking Stefan's name is considered bad luck in some parts of the world.


Haha, that's mean... funny, but mean.

quote:
Funny, but while I initially considered Cammy a shoo-in I'm beginning to wonder if she's going to make the cut or not. I suspect that Abel is taking the second grappler spot from T.Hawk. Keeping with that train of thought it might mean that C.Viper could be filling the second female character slot. This is just idle speculation on my part, mind you, but I do wonder if the New Challengers might have been dropped from the roster.



Well, looking at the selection screen, it seems that at least 6 more characters can be filled (probably more than that, but just to make the selection screen even). Since I don't think Ono will put more 6 new characters, at least two of these spaces could be returning people. And considering Cammy's popularity, she may have good chances of coming back (although there's also a chance of her not appearing in the game).





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"Re(10):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Mat" , posted Sat 16 Feb 04:35post reply

I was just browsing through the videos and it looks like Chun-Li also has her SFIII Kikouken pose. Perhaps on is the EX version?

Also, does Guile have a Japanese voice again? I think I hear sonikku buum. Zangief sounds like he has his CvS2 voice.





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"Re(2):Re(10):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Pl" , posted Sat 16 Feb 07:20post reply

I like the look. It's slowly growing on me.

Jesus, so many fighting games!





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"Re(7):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 08:06post reply

quote:
At the risk of sounding like stefan, where the hell is Cammy. If any world warrior's sultry body needs to make the transition into 3D it is her.



While I do like Cammy, I'm more interested in seeing Sakura. Wasn't it canon that Sakura sort of changed her fighting style to something Judo and that she became some sort of high school teacher?

Anyway, the game looks interesting. Judging from gameplay, I'm not sure if it captures a 2D feel like many people claim it does. Still, I want to try the game.

More excited about KOFXII than this, though.

Is it me or does it appear the Super bar is a mix of both SSF2X "one stock" and the custom combo gauge (it does say combo on it)?






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"Re(9):SF4 All Character AOU Trailer Plus Matc" , posted Sat 16 Feb 08:33post reply

quote:
Funny, but while I initially considered Cammy a shoo-in I'm beginning to wonder if she's going to make the cut or not. I suspect that Abel is taking the second grappler spot from T.Hawk. Keeping with that train of thought it might mean that C.Viper could be filling the second female character slot. This is just idle speculation on my part, mind you, but I do wonder if the New Challengers might have been dropped from the roster.



Well... thinking of it, she does have braided long hair, and she does have fast screen-crossing movements....

But for now I'd rather think that no, even if just for popularity reasons.
Besides, the days where fighting games had the "1 or 2 female character/s" are thankfully long gone.





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"Some GDC vidoes" , posted Fri 22 Feb 14:22post reply

Link Here

Shows off the moves of most of the original World Warriors.





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"AOU promo at official site" , posted Fri 22 Feb 17:38post reply

quote:
Link Here

Shows off the moves of most of the original World Warriors.



Those are some informative videos, thanks for sharing. So the Saving Attack can be canceled with a back dash too, interesting. Doesn't seem like canceling's eating any meter either.

Capcom's posted a high-quality version of their AOU trailer on the official site. They also have a wallpaper... of their beta test announcement. They had to spoil the art with text right dang in the middle. We'll definitely be hearing more stuff from the hardcore player's perspectives in the weekends.

Weirdest thing, Examu's announced at the last minute that they're also doing a test for Arcana Hearts 2 on the same days. From what's been reported, SFIV has about 20 people on the line, while AH2 has about 40 in its test in Tokyo. Someone's posted up some low grade videos here, look at the darn line. I'm hoping to check out either SFIV or Arcana2 on Sunday if I can make time.





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"1UP Preview and movelists description" , posted Fri 22 Feb 20:52post reply

1UP did a nice preview detailing the movelists of the ten characters revealed so far in SFIV (I wonder if the beta test this weekend will reveal any other fighters in it, although I don't think it'll happen).

From what they describe, it seems that SFIV isn't ignoring SFIII as much as we thought, since the description tells the gameplay is a mix between Super Turbo and SFIII Third Strike. Sounds interesting.

About the characters, it seems that Chun-Li and Ken are both based in their Third Strike incarnations, while the other World Warriors (including Ryu) are based in Super Turbo. Guile still only has two special moves (the Sonic Boom and the Flash Kick); I don't think it would hurt to give him at least one more special move...

Finally, about the newcomers: Abel is described as a kind of mix between Fei-Long and Zangief, and that although this mix sounds weird (and it really does), it blends well in the gameplay. C.Viper, on the other hand, is described as very original; the only weird part is that her Super Combo is described as two heavy punches, but the gameplay footage we've already seen show her Super Combo being her Ground Explosion (probably stronger), followed by two flaming Flash Kicks... I wonder if 1UP got confused while writing this preview.





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"Re(1):AOU promo at official site" , posted Fri 22 Feb 20:56post reply

quote:
Capcom's posted a high-quality version of their AOU trailer on the official site.

Oh, scenario !
So, Chunli, Guile AND Abel all chase down remaining Shadoloo members. That alone is a huge hint on who the remaining characters/bosses can be (ahem).

While I'm at it, I can also translate some positive and in-depth stuff from the 2ch thread :

The lack of air guard is confirmed. Good, good. Also, normal throws are not as hard to escape as in SSF2X, much easier, like 3rd. The dash forward is a joke : it has half of a character's width. The super cancel can be difficult to use. The guard stop is huge.

Zangief
Double Lariat : can be used as an antiair like in SF2. But the yoga fire is so slow it's hard to pass through it.
Burning punch : useless thanks to the saving thing. 5MP cancel burning OK. EX versions hits twice.
Screw : maybe the worst version ever, both range-wise and damage-wise. But it's really fast, so it can be used as a reversal move. The EX version has invincibility.
Atomic Supplex : as ever. EX version jumps high in the sky like in SSF2.
Flying Supplex : too slow to be of any use. The EX version makes him walk really far.
Super combo : can be done with a simple 670°. Still not as easy as Hugo's.
The body press and JSK are as powerful as they were in SF2.
Zangyura can make great use of the saving system, for example saving→cancel forward→Final Atomic.

Ryu
Can cancel saving between the first and the second hit of the tatsumaki.
far SP looks like Ken's CvS version. Not a lot of changes beside that, close SK and jump MP hit twice.
Forward SP is as ever, doesn't move much. No forward MK.
He has his usual 3 moves, no leg thing he had in 3. The jump is so fast the air tatsumaki is useless.
EX hadôken is on fire, the shôryuken doesn't change (his body glows yellow) and shinkű tatsumaki hits 3 times if close.
Shinkűhadôken hits 5 times.
Ultra combo : metsu hadôken (same name as Gôki's): close up, effect, but it's just a purple (as gôki's) shinkű hadôken that hits 8 times.
The main combo is the usual jump attack-2kick-hadôken. Close SP can connect to all 3 special moves. JSP-close SP-strong shôryűken for extra damage.
As easy to use and strong as ever.

Ken
6MK is here.
Same 3 moves as Ryű, with a flashy shôryűken that moves much forward.
Supercombo : shôryűreppa, ultracombo shinryűken. close up as well, not very spectacular (no pillar of flames).
crossup MK-close MPSP-shôryűken is strong.
No shippű jinraikyaku or fancy kick moves.

Chunli
Bounces. A lot. Sexiest version ever, but has FAT legs.
The motion of the kikôken changes according to the button pressed (strong : SSF2. Normal : CvS2). The hyakuretsu can be countered. No tenshôkyaku.

Honda
Really fast jump and walk. His hyakuretsu can be countered as well. Has a new move, some sort of tackle done with all 3 punches.

Blanka.
His moves seem to have a shorter reach than his dot versions? 2SP makes him hop, fast and has a lot of range. close SK is a reliable antiair. forward KKK is fast.

Guile
2MK is crappy. Takes forever to throw a sonic boom.

Yoga
The normal throw hits only twice ? It's quite slow.
Fast jump as well. The yoga teleport is so fast it's finally useful. Yoga fire is very slow, seems nasty (you can spit one, then teleport after it). has a super projectile (super or ultra ?) like the shinkű hadôken.

C.Viper
214 WP = Slayer's Mahha punch. As fast, long and powerful as Slayer's best versions. No counter even if guarded.
The MP version is shorter, but seems to go over crouching characters and could be used to get closer to throw ?
SP is really fast, strong, and useful as an anti air. No invincibility
EX version is too slow to be used in combos, but can be comboed after. Has a spark effect.
214K is slow, but has no stop motion afterwards.
623 seems to make something explode on the ground on different places according to the button pushed.

Abel
236 seems to be like Karin's (with the second or third move hitting middle or low depending on the button used. Not sure about that) When done with 3 punch, all three connect. If the last throw is evaded, he stands there wide open.
Using kick on the second hit makes a very slow move, so it might be better to make two punch moves and stop there. Someone had his first punch blocked and the second crushed by a double larriat.
623P motion is a throw.
214K makes that Terry move. It can jump over projectiles, hit jumping opponents, and is generally fast and reliable.
214P is a roll forward that goes through the opponent. The EX version seems different ?
The 360° is slow, but has good damage.
Both super and ultra are ranbu. The ultra version had invincibility.

"Viper and Abel mix well with the rest of the cast, and both are fun to use whether you liked them on video or not. The rest of the cast may be SF2 characters, but the engine is so different it's unfair to say they are "the same as ever" But it's still closer to SF2 than to any version of SFEX."





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"Re(2):AOU promo at official site" , posted Mon 25 Feb 06:41post reply

Interwiew with some guy:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/31063.html





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"Re(3):AOU promo at official site" , posted Tue 26 Feb 16:26:post reply

quote:
Interwiew with some guy:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/31063.html



I dont know if this is old, but the producer wants to try to port the game to a lot of systems, including DS.

EDIT: http://kotaku.com/340736/street-fighter-iv-looking-at-ds-and-beyond





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"Re(4):AOU promo at official site" , posted Wed 27 Feb 01:26post reply

There will be another location test on the 29th.

I was browsing through 2ch and noticed some people talking about Sagat and Boxer Balrog were opponents during single player games. Has there been any confirmation on that?





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"Re(5):AOU promo at official site" , posted Wed 27 Feb 02:27post reply

quote:
There will be another location test on the 29th.

I was browsing through 2ch and noticed some people talking about Sagat and Boxer Balrog were opponents during single player games. Has there been any confirmation on that?



Really?? I haven't read anything about that on the net!

If Mike Bison/Balrog is in the game, what's the point of having Dudley in that SFIV poll at Capcom's website? Unless that poll isn't really to choose one more character for SFIV, or if the game is gonna have two boxers (what may not be necessarily a bad thing, since Dudley and Balrog have different attacks).

-----

Anyway, one Brazilian news reporter published an interview with Ono. The text is in Portuguese, and overall there isn't much that we haven't seen in other news before.

However, he mentioned that the game production isn't even near the end, and that people can notice that so far, there are eight characters in the top of the selection screen, and only two in the bottom, what indicates that there's still a lot of empty space in the selection screen, but this space will be filled in the final version (so I guess SFIV will have at least around 16 fighters).

And he apologizes to Brazil for representing us with Blanka... funny! Unfortunately, the reporter told him that we actually like Blanka, so he won't be scared anymore...





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"Re(6):AOU promo at official site" , posted Wed 27 Feb 08:03post reply

quote:

And he apologizes to Brazil for representing us with Blanka... funny! Unfortunately, the reporter told him that we actually like Blanka, so he won't be scared anymore...



I always thought that it was funny that Capcom represented Mexican as indians, and South americans as un dressed beasts.





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"Re(5):AOU promo at official site" , posted Wed 27 Feb 08:29post reply

quote:
There will be another location test on the 29th.

I was browsing through 2ch and noticed some people talking about Sagat and Boxer Balrog were opponents during single player games. Has there been any confirmation on that?



I've seen several confirmations now actually, such as one made by Tim Rodgers on IC forums.





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"Re(6):AOU promo at official site" , posted Wed 27 Feb 10:57post reply

quote:
There will be another location test on the 29th.

I was browsing through 2ch and noticed some people talking about Sagat and Boxer Balrog were opponents during single player games. Has there been any confirmation on that?


I've seen several confirmations now actually, such as one made by Tim Rodgers on IC forums.



Nice.

New interviews going around.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/02/inside-street-f.html

Interesting quote considering the recent Capcom USA poll.

quote:
Potential home versions of the game should offer something else to hardcore Street Fighter fans, says Ono. "If and when there are console versions, we could see someone like Sakura-chan (from Street Fighter Alpha) or Ibuki (Street Fighter III)," says Ono. "For a home version, you can sit and practice the characters as long as you want to before you take them online. So there will probably be a move to add even more characters to the home version."


So I assume there are no plans for Sakura in the arcade version. He also neither confirms nor denies a possible Wii port. If they do they would have to rework the graphics. Maybe they could try to do some DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi style celshading to try and give it a more 2D look.

http://www.gametap.com/home/read/article/4260

Some different questions from what we are used to. He explains the choice of graphics and discusses SFIII a bit.

http://www.gametap.com/home/read/article/4217

general overview from the same site.

Kotaku has an interview up

http://kotaku.com/360397/an-interview-with-street-fighter-iv-producer-yoshinori-ono

Ono mentions that C. Viper design was the result of a request from the Capcom USA side.





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"Re(7):AOU promo at official site" , posted Wed 27 Feb 14:02:post reply

quote:
http://kotaku.com/360397/an-interview-with-street-fighter-iv-producer-yoshinori-ono

Ono mentions that C. Viper design was the result of a request from the Capcom USA side.


C.Viper is the response against the backlash of moé and "pedo" designs? I wonder how the "should-be-targeted-for-Japanese-people" crowd will react about this...(ironic considering we could argue that actual stuff targeted towards Japanese people like IDOLM@STER and Arcana Hearts eventually end up appealing only to otaku audiences)

Overall, I don't feel bad at all towards the approach, because for one thing, I think it works, since I don't think SF4 would survive if it had still used (contemporary) anime inspire character designs, with KOFXII footing that bill and all.





[this message was edited by sfried on Wed 27 Feb 15:04]

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"Re(7):AOU promo at official site" , posted Wed 27 Feb 16:17post reply

quote:

Ono mentions that C. Viper design was the result of a request from the Capcom USA side.



Thanks for all the links. After all those interviews, I'm beginning to question if Ono is every actually sincere in anything that he says. He keeps contradicting himself (It won't be like Third Strike--oh wait it will; expert players will be able to separate themselves, but new players will still be able to compete with them). I think he's just out there drumming up press and just saying whatever will please the interviewer. I wouldn't take any of his opinions to heart because he's only allowed to say good things about the game and confirm that it's on the right track.

From the sounds of it, the Gametab article puts it best:

"The theme of Street Fighter IV is compromise."

The game really just looks like one big compromise so far.





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"Re(8):AOU promo at official site" , posted Wed 27 Feb 18:37:post reply

quote:

Thanks for all the links. After all those interviews, I'm beginning to question if Ono is every actually sincere in anything that he says. He keeps contradicting himself (It won't be like Third Strike--oh wait it will; expert players will be able to separate themselves, but new players will still be able to compete with them). I think he's just out there drumming up press and just saying whatever will please the interviewer. I wouldn't take any of his opinions to heart because he's only allowed to say good things about the game and confirm that it's on the right track.

From the sounds of it, the Gametab article puts it best:

"The theme of Street Fighter IV is compromise."

The game really just looks like one big compromise so far.



I don't like all the wishy-washy responses from Ono, either. The only solid decision made so far is that the game is in 3D.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see this game please everybody, but it's like the classic adage. I just don't know if it's possible.

PS: Sadly, if Ibuki was in SFIV (which would be awesome because I love Ibuki in 3S), she'd be 11 or 12 years old during this timeline, thus automatically nixing her due to the loli/pedo rule.

PPS: I can't wait until the follow-up to this game in 2 years, because Ken will look like this afterwards.





[this message was edited by EddyT on Wed 27 Feb 18:38]

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"Re(8):AOU promo at official site" , posted Wed 27 Feb 20:14post reply

quote:
I think he's just out there drumming up press and just saying whatever will please the interviewer. I wouldn't take any of his opinions to heart because he's only allowed to say good things about the game and confirm that it's on the right track.

His tone was exactly the same when he had to promote CFJ.





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"Re(9):AOU promo at official site" , posted Thu 28 Feb 00:33post reply

quote:
His tone was exactly the same when he had to promote CFJ.



Not only that, but Iggy's tarantula x scorpion theme is gone....

I'm scared





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"Invisible?" , posted Thu 28 Feb 01:11post reply

quote:
http://kotaku.com/360397/an-interview-with-street-fighter-iv-producer-yoshinori-ono

Ono mentions that C. Viper design was the result of a request from the Capcom USA side.



Am I doing something wrong? I'm getting a one paragraph blurb and the comments but not the actual article.

Though I am intrigued that they pulled a Dee Jay with Crimson Viper.





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"Re(1):Invisible?" , posted Thu 28 Feb 03:03post reply

quote:
Thanks for all the links. After all those interviews, I'm beginning to question if Ono is every actually sincere in anything that he says. He keeps contradicting himself (It won't be like Third Strike--oh wait it will; expert players will be able to separate themselves, but new players will still be able to compete with them). I think he's just out there drumming up press and just saying whatever will please the interviewer. I wouldn't take any of his opinions to heart because he's only allowed to say good things about the game and confirm that it's on the right track.


I suspect also part of the problem is that Ono is getting interviewed by dozens of different journalists. Each reporter is bringing their own opinions about SF to the table so it's no wonder each article slants a bit differently. Plus, there also seems to be a wide range of journalistic skill on display. I get the feeling that some of the reporters simply aren't good at doing interviews. Personally I'm impressed that Ono is able to keep a smile on his face when handed some of those inane questions when he probably would just as soon go bang his head into the wall.

quote:

Am I doing something wrong? I'm getting a one paragraph blurb and the comments but not the actual article.



It's a video interview. There are some funky load problems on my end with it as well.





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"Re(7):AOU promo at official site" , posted Thu 28 Feb 03:15post reply

quote:
Interesting quote considering the recent Capcom USA poll.

Potential home versions of the game should offer something else to hardcore Street Fighter fans, says Ono. "If and when there are console versions, we could see someone like Sakura-chan (from Street Fighter Alpha) or Ibuki (Street Fighter III)," says Ono. "For a home version, you can sit and practice the characters as long as you want to before you take them online. So there will probably be a move to add even more characters to the home version."

So I assume there are no plans for Sakura in the arcade version. He also neither confirms nor denies a possible Wii port. If they do they would have to rework the graphics. Maybe they could try to do some DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi style celshading to try and give it a more 2D look.



Yeah, that quote seems to let clear that Sakura won't be in the Arcade version of SFIV. And if he's referring to the Capcom USA poll, then I guess all the other characters in this poll (Dudley, Fei-Long, Necro, R.Mika and Dan) won't be in it, as well.

However, it also implies that the SFIV home versions will include more characters than the Arcade cast. I wonder if after that, Ono will re-release SFIV at the Arcades with the extra characters. Hey, they did that with SFA3 (at least in Japan)...

About the Wii part, most of Ono's interviews show him saying that he wants to bring SFIV to as many consoles as he can; he specifically mentions PS2 and Nintendo DS. So, if SFIV really gets ported to PS2 and DS, I'd guess that Wii and PSP will definitely get SFIV as well.





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"Re(9):AOU promo at official site" , posted Thu 28 Feb 08:18post reply

quote:
His tone was exactly the same when he had to promote CFJ.


Who else believes Ono wouldn't be negative now about CFJ if it had actually found an audience, regardless of its quality?





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"Re(10):AOU promo at official site" , posted Thu 28 Feb 09:51post reply

quote:
His tone was exactly the same when he had to promote CFJ.

Who else believes Ono wouldn't be negative now about CFJ if it had actually found an audience, regardless of its quality?



I believe that would happen no matter who the producer was. Actually I'd love to see an example of a producer being completely negative about his own game in spite of success, accompanied with an explanation of why that would be considered a good thing.





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"Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 01:05post reply

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ZMQ7ZlCqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpXh2r72HM





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"Re(1):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 01:42post reply

Man alive, Sagat looks great. Balrog looks promising as well but I wish the video of him had been a bit more clear. While I'm at it I also wish so many clowns wouldn't walk in front of the illegal video recording. Can't they let those of us who are surreptitiously trying to see the game have a decent view?





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"Re(2):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 02:05post reply

Not pictured on the vid : Bison/Boxer guy has a manager (similar to Hugo's Poison).





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"Re(1):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 05:11post reply

quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ZMQ7ZlCqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpXh2r72HM



It's nice to see favorites return and all but give us new character, dammit.





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"Re(2):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 06:32post reply

quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ZMQ7ZlCqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpXh2r72HM


It's nice to see favorites return and all but give us new character, dammit.



Did Sagat shrink? Zangief is taller than him in the vid.





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"Re(2):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 07:18post reply

quote:
It's nice to see favorites return and all but give us new character, dammit.



They're starting to make me a bit nervous, too. There's no way Crimson Viper and Abel are the only new additions, but with 8 returning characters and what's looking like 4 old bosses and no doubt Gouki will be there, how many new characters could there be? I'd hope for at least 8 newcomers total and I'd like a boss that isn't Bison, but... they're kind of beating the enthusiasm out of me little by little.





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"Re(3):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 11:16post reply

quote:
It's nice to see favorites return and all but give us new character, dammit.


They're starting to make me a bit nervous, too. There's no way Crimson Viper and Abel are the only new additions, but with 8 returning characters and what's looking like 4 old bosses and no doubt Gouki will be there, how many new characters could there be? I'd hope for at least 8 newcomers total and I'd like a boss that isn't Bison, but... they're kind of beating the enthusiasm out of me little by little.



Well, I'm still very enthusiastic about SFIV, but I know what you mean. I'm really glad that Sagat is back (although I'd prefer Dudley in SFIV instead of Balrog), but yes, SFIV needs more NEW characters in it.

I don't think, however, that it will bring 8 newcomers. Besides C.Viper and Abel, it probably will have another 2 to 4 newcomers (at least one of them being a woman, due to Ono's comments on trying to equal the war of genders in SFIV), and that's probably gonna be it.

Although I really hope that the newcomers are more than 4 characters (including Viper and Abel); otherwise, I can see SFIV being called as "Super Street Fighter II 3D: The NEW New Challengers"... (after all, neither of the New Challengers from SSFII was confirmed so far)





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"Re(3):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 12:43post reply

quote:
It's nice to see favorites return and all but give us new character, dammit.


They're starting to make me a bit nervous, too. There's no way Crimson Viper and Abel are the only new additions, but with 8 returning characters and what's looking like 4 old bosses and no doubt Gouki will be there, how many new characters could there be? I'd hope for at least 8 newcomers total and I'd like a boss that isn't Bison, but... they're kind of beating the enthusiasm out of me little by little.



Honestly, I like the ideas for the new system, I like the way the game looks and it at least SEEMS that they're willing to listen to people on what they want in it.

But so far the negatives are outweighing the positives with the number being off (IV before III timeline? the hell?), seeing only 2 new characters among 12 confirmed so far, only seeing official stuff trickle out VERY slowly with the game being less than 6 months away and then the talk of home ports already being on every system possible, which may harm the quality of the ports themselves if they're not careful (stretching to thin).

Now, I'll naturally be pleased as punch of Sakura makes it in with either the arcade or home port, but I'd still like some new characters to try out. I'm almost expecting them to just say "okay, here's Maki! but she doesn't play like a crappy Guy, now!" and then put Haggar in the home port (or vice versa). Then they'll start adding random favorites from other games and it'll just be a big clusterscrew of MvC2 all over again.





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"Re(4):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 13:21post reply

quote:
It's nice to see favorites return and all but give us new character, dammit.


They're starting to make me a bit nervous, too. There's no way Crimson Viper and Abel are the only new additions, but with 8 returning characters and what's looking like 4 old bosses and no doubt Gouki will be there, how many new characters could there be? I'd hope for at least 8 newcomers total and I'd like a boss that isn't Bison, but... they're kind of beating the enthusiasm out of me little by little.


Honestly, I like the ideas for the new system, I like the way the game looks and it at least SEEMS that they're willing to listen to people on what they want in it.

But so far the negatives are outweighing the positives with the number being off (IV before III timeline? the hell?), seeing only 2 new characters among 12 confirmed so far, only seeing official stuff trickle out VERY slowly with the game being less than 6 months away and then the talk of home ports already being on every system possible, which may harm the quality of the ports themselves if they're not careful (stretching to thin).

Now, I'll naturally be pleased as punch of Sakura makes it in with either the arcade or home port, but I'd still like some new characters to try out. I'm almost expecting them to just say "okay, here's Maki! but she doesn't play like a crappy Guy, now!" and then put Haggar in the home port (or vice versa). Then they'll start adding random favorites from other games and it'll just be a big clusterscrew of MvC2 all over again.

I remember when they used to rehash street fighter 2.. championship edition, hyper edition, turbo edition, super, super turbo... This is like a 3d extension of those rehashes.





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"Re(4):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sat 1 Mar 13:26post reply

quote:

Now, I'll naturally be pleased as punch of Sakura makes it in with either the arcade or home port, but I'd still like some new characters to try out. I'm almost expecting them to just say "okay, here's Maki! but she doesn't play like a crappy Guy, now!" and then put Haggar in the home port (or vice versa). Then they'll start adding random favorites from other games and it'll just be a big clusterscrew of MvC2 all over again.



Capcom Fighting All-Stars Reborn?





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"Re(5):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 01:24post reply

Sagat's fireballs look slow as heck. I hope he was throwing nothing but jab tiger shots, but even then the animation of the tiger shot coming out is slow.

As far as new characters are concerned: realistically I'm hoping for two more new. More than that would be great, but expecting more than that is putting your expectations too high.





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"Re(1):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 02:20post reply

quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ZMQ7ZlCqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpXh2r72HM



Watched the videos. Am I alone in thinking that for some characters at least, Capcom should have changed their character designs? I can understand Ryu, Ken, Chunli and Sagat staying the same, but they could at least change the look of Balrog.

But maybe I'm nitpicking.

Sagat looks awesome. Balrog looks like he'd be a fun character to play in a Dudley/Vanessa sort of way.

And I never really noticed how massive Zangief looked. Just seeing him move conveys a brutish attitude.






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"Re(4):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 05:37post reply

quote:
But so far the negatives are outweighing the positives with the number being off (IV before III timeline? the hell?), seeing only 2 new characters among 12 confirmed so far, only seeing official stuff trickle out VERY slowly with the game being less than 6 months away and then the talk of home ports already being on every system possible, which may harm the quality of the ports themselves if they're not careful (stretching to thin).


Perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly but I thought that the home versions of SF4 were announced before the arcade version. I suspect this game has been built for the home systems since day one and the arcade version is the secondary port.





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"Re(5):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 06:35post reply

quote:

Perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly but I thought that the home versions of SF4 were announced before the arcade version. I suspect this game has been built for the home systems since day one and the arcade version is the secondary port.


SFIV at first was announced with no specifics on whether it on consoles, arcades or both since even saying that the game exist was probably big new on its own. When EGM covered it they reported that it was on development PC tools. Then capcom announced that its coming to arcades and eventually to consoles. So probably the arcade will come much sooner than the home ports.

My memory might deceive me but I heard Ono stated that when playing SF in an arcade players won't have time to learn new characters and that he would like to add them on home ports which wouldn't make sense if the home ports come before or at the same time as the arcade version.

Then again with all that ass kissing and contradictions he could even say that SFIV will cook, clean and do your laundry.





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"Re(6):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 06:41post reply

quote:
SFIV will cook, clean and do your laundry.


The game will be renamed "Cooking Chunli" on DS. For every mistake you do on the recipe, she kicks you in the nuts, then she eats you.





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"Re(7):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 07:45:post reply

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KciNEAh45GA

A bit better quality, at least for Balrog. There are a bunch more videos uploaded by the same user.

I can only assume that if they put the car bonus game back it, it will be on that level with all the low riders.





[this message was edited by GekigangerV on Sun 2 Mar 07:46]

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"Re(7):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 08:15post reply

quote:
SFIV will cook, clean and do your laundry.

The game will be renamed "Cooking Chunli" on DS. For every mistake you do on the recipe, she kicks you in the nuts, then she eats you.


Street Fighter: The Dating Sim - Third Crush





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"Re(6):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 08:22post reply

quote:
My memory might deceive me but I heard Ono stated that when playing SF in an arcade players won't have time to learn new characters and that he would like to add them on home ports which wouldn't make sense if the home ports come before or at the same time as the arcade version.


That was when he was saying characters not in the arcade version, like Sakura and Ibuki, might be added to the console versions.

Which people promptly took as confirmation that Sakura and Ibuki would be in the console versions...





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"Re(7):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 09:16post reply

quote:
As far as new characters are concerned: realistically I'm hoping for two more new. More than that would be great, but expecting more than that is putting your expectations too high.


Yeah, that's true... still, I hope there are more than just two more new characters; a total of four new characters, as I said before, will make many people refer to this game as "Super Street Fighter II 3d: The NEW New Challengers" (since Cammy is the only New Challenger I can see coming back to SFIV, these new characters would be basically replacing the four newcomers from Super SFII).

Anyway, the presence of Sagat and Balrog makes almost confirmed that Vega will be in SFIV, as well. However, if Ono decides to bring back M.Bison as well, he'll have to create a great story to justify how he's back after being killed and his soul being sent to hell by Akuma (who, BTW, is another almost confirmed presence in SFIV)...

quote:
That was when he was saying characters not in the arcade version, like Sakura and Ibuki, might be added to the console versions.

Which people promptly took as confirmation that Sakura and Ibuki would be in the console versions...



Yes, you're right... I'd love to have both of them in the console versions, actually, but since Ibuki is one of the SFIII youngsters, she would be too young to appear in SFIV (at least I don't remember any kid fighter in the SF games... Sakura doesn't count, she's a teenager). So, for canonity reasons, I expect him NOT to add Ibuki in it.

Sakura, on the other hand, has no reasons to be out of SFIV... plus, she's very popular. And we'd be able to find out what happened to her after SFA3 (and depending on her ending, we could find out what happened to Karin, as well).





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"Re(8):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 10:02post reply

If this is indeed to SF4 it does mean it takes place after 3rd strike right? I wonder where this game falls on the time line because right now it looks closer to 3 then 4 thus 2.5 Aside any new characters I wonder if we will see and characters from 3





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"Re(9):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 10:46post reply

quote:
If this is indeed to SF4 it does mean it takes place after 3rd strike right? I wonder where this game falls on the time line because right now it looks closer to 3 then 4 thus 2.5 Aside any new characters I wonder if we will see and characters from 3



The story takes place right after SFII... like almost immediately afterward. That's why there's been talk about Vega (dictator US M.Bison) possibly not showing up in this game. Or he may pull a Geese and be back in some form.

The "IV" is a misnomer, basically. It's only "IV" in spirit, but not in storyline.





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"Re(8):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 11:01:post reply

quote:
Anyway, the presence of Sagat and Balrog makes almost confirmed that Vega will be in SFIV, as well.



Unfortunately, Mr. Claw is the only SF2 character that might be a problem because his moves won't mirror properly. They could still do it, but it would take a bit more work than most characters, and even then might end up causing problems. So I don't think they'll add him for a while, if at all.





[this message was edited by Gojira on Sun 2 Mar 11:02]

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"Re(9):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 12:09:post reply

quote:
Unfortunately, Mr. Claw is the only SF2 character that might be a problem because his moves won't mirror properly. They could still do it, but it would take a bit more work than most characters, and even then might end up causing problems. So I don't think they'll add him for a while, if at all.



Really? Why?

What would be the problem about the way his moves mirror?

EDIT: Nevermind, I figured out now what you were saying. But still, wouldn't the mirror subject be a problem for Sagat as well? His eye-patch covers only one eye; yet, he's in the game.





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"Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 13:52post reply

quote:
Really? Why?

What would be the problem about the way his moves mirror?

EDIT: Nevermind, I figured out now what you were saying. But still, wouldn't the mirror subject be a problem for Sagat as well? His eye-patch covers only one eye; yet, he's in the game.



Well, Sagat doesn't attack people with his eye.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 18:13:post reply

quote:
Unfortunately, Mr. Claw is the only SF2 character that might be a problem because his moves won't mirror properly. They could still do it, but it would take a bit more work than most characters, and even then might end up causing problems. So I don't think they'll add him for a while, if at all.



They can always give him a second claw

quote:

Well, Sagat doesn't attack people with his eye.




Well, he should!


TIGER EYE BEAM





[this message was edited by whitesword on Sun 2 Mar 18:15]

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"Re(9):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 18:38post reply

quote:
Unfortunately, Mr. Claw is the only SF2 character that might be a problem because his moves won't mirror properly. They could still do it, but it would take a bit more work than most characters, and even then might end up causing problems. So I don't think they'll add him for a while, if at all.


Also, I wonder how the whole "jumping of the walls" things could turn out with the whole dynamic camera thing... Can Chunli still do that ?
I think Mr. Claw (hehe) just changes direction in mid-air in SF EX2, but it looked awkward (and THAT means something).
The easiest way would be to remove his claw AND changed his air moves, but they probably won't do that.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 18:57post reply

quote:



Well, Sagat doesn't attack people with his eye.



Well, he should!


TIGER EYE BEAM



Fools! Have none of you played Street Fighter: The Movie Game?

EVIL EYE!





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"Re(2):Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Sun 2 Mar 23:19post reply

quote:
Well, Sagat doesn't attack people with his eye.



Oh, now I understood what you meant!

Yes, the claw attacks may be a problem to mirror. Then again, Capcom could just give him a second claw, like Whitesword suggested (although that would go against Ono's desire to "preserve the characters's uniqueness"...).

Or Vega could be the only character to have different stances depending on which side of the screen he is on (that would demand a little extra programming work, that's true, but I don't think it would be impossible to do, or even that it would take a lot of time to be done).

Or his claw could just "magically" get transfered to the other hand when he switches sides with the opponent. Cheap, I know, but I guess the SF players are already accostumed to it anyway...





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"Claw" , posted Mon 3 Mar 03:39:post reply

quote:
Well, Sagat doesn't attack people with his eye.


Oh, now I understood what you meant!

Yes, the claw attacks may be a problem to mirror. Then again, Capcom could just give him a second claw, like Whitesword suggested (although that would go against Ono's desire to "preserve the characters's uniqueness"...).

Or Vega could be the only character to have different stances depending on which side of the screen he is on (that would demand a little extra programming work, that's true, but I don't think it would be impossible to do, or even that it would take a lot of time to be done).

Or his claw could just "magically" get transfered to the other hand when he switches sides with the opponent. Cheap, I know, but I guess the SF players are already accostumed to it anyway...



While the wall rebounds might be an issue, I doubt the actual claw attacks would. It's not Tekken so it's not like you are pressing Left Punch and with the alignment it's not like people can sidestep. The only difference I can see is that your punch would be with the close arm when he's facing one way and the far arm with the other.

---

Iron D referenced the SF Movie game, therefore confirming that he is the evil one between the two of us.

quote:
Sakura, on the other hand, has no reasons to be out of SFIV... plus, she's very popular. And we'd be able to find out what happened to her after SFA3 (and depending on her ending, we could find out what happened to Karin, as well).


It would be cool if we had Adult Sakura (especially if she plays like CvS instead of SFA3) but I doubt it since they are doing the whole "classic"/no changes/cop out thing. And it's sad since they could easily mod her appearance and still have her be obviously Sakura (just a few inches taller, change the school uniform to a similar looking blouse and skirt, keep the hairstyle and sneakers). Ibuki would need to be a dreammatch hidden unlock to keep the story coherent.

---

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[this message was edited by ZamIAm on Mon 3 Mar 03:48]

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"Re(1):Claw" , posted Mon 3 Mar 13:44post reply

quote:

It would be cool if we had Adult Sakura (especially if she plays like CvS instead of SFA3) but I doubt it since they are doing the whole "classic"/no changes/cop out thing.



I'm not a Sakura fan by any stretch, but I had always hoped for an adult version of her that was decidedly different than the Sakura we know. That, and maybe an older, balding Dan.





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"Re(2):Claw" , posted Mon 3 Mar 14:12post reply

quote:
That, and maybe an older, balding Dan.



A Steven Seagal-esque Dan would be all it takes to make me love SF4 forever.





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"Re(9):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Tue 4 Mar 11:00post reply

quote:
Unfortunately, Mr. Claw is the only SF2 character that might be a problem because his moves won't mirror properly. They could still do it, but it would take a bit more work than most characters, and even then might end up causing problems. So I don't think they'll add him for a while, if at all.


Claw should be an easy enough fix. Just switch the hand the claw is on whenever he changes his facing. It would only be about as jarring as the old sprite mirroring, and they already doing a similar cheat reversing the animation skeletons themselves with facing changes.

If they planned to keep the ability to knock off his claw, then it would need to be a removable model anyway.





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"Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Tue 4 Mar 14:26post reply

Really, the issue with Mr. Claw isn't that there is no solution. It's more about likelihood.

From my standpoint as a developer, adding a character with the intention of coding in a "fix" for him is not only inelegant but reeks of terrible planning, so developers usually won't do it that way. It's a risk that almost always leads to problems, especially when the engine is brand new and all the current problems have yet to be worked out. If it must be done, getting a solution at the design level would be preferable, like giving him claws on both arms.

If they're not willing a to do a redesign like that though, his chances of being in the game are a lot lower than the rest of the characters, since they don't require such a fix to be added. If he does end up being in the game with only one claw, it means somebody at Capcom was REALLY determined to put him in there.





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"Arcade ordering" , posted Tue 4 Mar 14:44post reply

http://www.tops-game.jp/shinsaku.htm

Says its coming out sometime in August. It also seems to mention a player ID card that keeps track of fight records and something about Mobile content which I don't think Ono has mentioned yet.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Tue 4 Mar 22:00post reply

quote:
Really, the issue with Mr. Claw isn't that there is no solution. It's more about likelihood.

From my standpoint as a developer, adding a character with the intention of coding in a "fix" for him is not only inelegant but reeks of terrible planning, so developers usually won't do it that way. It's a risk that almost always leads to problems, especially when the engine is brand new and all the current problems have yet to be worked out. If it must be done, getting a solution at the design level would be preferable, like giving him claws on both arms.

If they're not willing a to do a redesign like that though, his chances of being in the game are a lot lower than the rest of the characters, since they don't require such a fix to be added. If he does end up being in the game with only one claw, it means somebody at Capcom was REALLY determined to put him in there.

the claw is such a minor thing for the whole thing to be just scrapped. looking at the big picture, its just a claw. they could just remove the mirroring on vega/balrog.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Wed 5 Mar 03:20:post reply

quote:
the claw is such a minor thing for the whole thing to be just scrapped. looking at the big picture, its just a claw. they could just remove the mirroring on vega/balrog.



There are a ton of solutions that would be preferable to that. Not only is it not a minor thing to "just remove the mirroring" on a character, but if they're using polygon collision it would never work the same when he turns around no matter what they did.

And anyway you've missed the point.





[this message was edited by Gojira on Wed 5 Mar 03:23]

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"Re(4):Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Wed 5 Mar 06:51post reply

Don't get the whole argument about the claw. Why not just have him stab with the same hand but the arm is closer or further from you depending on which side Vega/Balrog is standing? Either way you can make it pierce his opponent.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Wed 5 Mar 07:06:post reply

quote:
Don't get the whole argument about the claw. Why not just have him stab with the same hand but the arm is closer or further from you depending on which side Vega/Balrog is standing? Either way you can make it pierce his opponent.



Doesn't that changes the all his combo possibilities though? It would be weird if Vega was the only character that completely changed the way he was played depending on which side of the screen he was on.

Would the hit boxes/move priorities be different if they don't flip Vega's model when he goes from one side of the screen to the other? This kind of stuff is common in Virtua Fighter and Tekken where you have to deal with Open stances and closed stances, but if they are trying to recreate 2D hit boxes I can't see it being a problem. But my technical knowledge of fighting games is very basic so I don't know.

Baines idea about just switching the hand the claw is on would probably the best if they plan of keeping the ability to knock off the claw.





[this message was edited by GekigangerV on Wed 5 Mar 07:11]

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"Re(6):Re(10):Sagat, Balrog vidoes" , posted Thu 6 Mar 22:29post reply

quote:
Doesn't that changes the all his combo possibilities though? It would be weird if Vega was the only character that completely changed the way he was played depending on which side of the screen he was on.

Would the hit boxes/move priorities be different if they don't flip Vega's model when he goes from one side of the screen to the other? This kind of stuff is common in Virtua Fighter and Tekken where you have to deal with Open stances and closed stances, but if they are trying to recreate 2D hit boxes I can't see it being a problem. But my technical knowledge of fighting games is very basic so I don't know.

Baines idea about just switching the hand the claw is on would probably the best if they plan of keeping the ability to knock off the claw.



Yes, it may be quite hard to solve this problem.

But I still believe that Vega will be added to SFIV (not that I care if he's included or not, but he is an iconic SFII character, after all). Maybe the producers are already trying to figure how his playability would be, and that's why only Sagat and Balrog were shown.

Since M.Bison is dead, I'm expecting Vega, Cammy and Akuma to return, the first being an iconic SFII character, the second being the most popular (or the only popular, perhaps) New Challenger, and come on, we know Akuma will be in it...

Add more two to four new characters (at least one of them being a woman, due to Ono's remark about trying to balance the "battle of genders" or something like that), and we have a cast. Sure, not the perfect cast, but that can be worked in the home console versions (and posterior downloadable content) and Arcade revisions...





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"New character to be revealed on Friday?? Read" , posted Tue 11 Mar 22:39:post reply

http://www.capcom-fc.com/sf4/2008/03/3.html

Honestly, I don't understand anything in Japanese to know what is said in this page, but some people at the GameFAQs' SFIV Message Board said that it basically announces that another character will be revealed on March 14th.

Although it's not sure if this character will be brand-new or not, the scrambled screenshot doesn't look like any known SF character that I remember; plus, it seems that the article mentions C. Viper and Abel, and then the number 3 in one sentence, what may indicate that it's a new character, just like Viper and Abel.

The topic creator also says that it looks like Capcom will release details of one new character per month (although I'm not sure if s/he deduced it from the article or just assumed it without proof). Anyway, let's wait and see what happens...

-----

EDIT: blurry picture of the new character (a little bit more visible than the scrambled screenshot).





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[this message was edited by Just a Person on Wed 12 Mar 01:28]

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"Re(1):New character to be revealed on Friday?" , posted Tue 11 Mar 22:48post reply

quote:
The topic creator also says that it looks like Capcom will release details of one new character per month



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"Re(2):New character to be revealed on Friday?" , posted Tue 11 Mar 23:47post reply

My guess is that's Gouken. Or maybe T.Hawk. Or perhaps Segata Sanshiro.





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"Re(3):New character to be revealed on Friday?" , posted Tue 11 Mar 23:54post reply

quote:
My guess is that's Gouken. Or maybe T.Hawk. Or perhaps Segata Sanshiro.



Who's that??





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"Re(4):New character to be revealed on Friday?" , posted Wed 12 Mar 00:08:post reply

quote:
My guess is that's Gouken. Or maybe T.Hawk. Or perhaps Segata Sanshiro.


Who's that??


Aah, Segata Sanshiro, it's Sega's "mascot" from the Saturn days, he was in their japanese ads. It's a character based on Sugata Sanshiro (a famous movie character in Japan).





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[this message was edited by Mokona on Wed 12 Mar 00:09]

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"Re(5):New character to be revealed on Friday?" , posted Wed 12 Mar 03:45post reply

quote:

Aah, Segata Sanshiro, it's Sega's "mascot" from the Saturn days, he was in their japanese ads. It's a character based on Sugata Sanshiro (a famous movie character in Japan).



Sugata Sanshiro was Akira Kurosawa's directorial debut. Here's a collection of the Segata Sanshiro commercials, also done by Akira Kurosawa (ok not really, but they're great!):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=o3lCF8O2N50

As for Vega's claw problem, they could easily make a split second animation of him switching his claw from one arm to the other. They could even cheat it, like have him quickly cross his arms and the claw just switches. They could probably even just teleport the claw and most people wouldn't notice.





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"El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Wed 12 Mar 18:08post reply

http://kotaku.com/366743/new-street-fighter-iv-character-leaked

Luche Libre is the new Capoeira.





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"Re(1):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Wed 12 Mar 18:23post reply

quote:
http://kotaku.com/366743/new-street-fighter-iv-character-leaked

Luche Libre is the new Capoeira.



Looks more like a ninja than a luchadore.





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"Re(1):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Wed 12 Mar 18:37post reply

quote:
http://kotaku.com/366743/new-street-fighter-iv-character-leaked

Luche Libre is the new Capoeira.



Maybe it's El Stingray?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Stingray






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"Re(2):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Wed 12 Mar 19:17post reply

El Stingray!!!!

"Let's make this fast. I have a date with your sister."

That quote alone makes him my hero...





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"Re(2):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Wed 12 Mar 20:32post reply

quote:
http://kotaku.com/366743/new-street-fighter-iv-character-leaked

Luche Libre is the new Capoeira.


Maybe it's El Stingray?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Stingray




Stingray would be a nice addition, but this character doesn't look like him (sure, his looks could change - but then again, isn't SFIV preserving the characters's classical looks?).

Well, not sure about what I think about El Fuerte. His mask is kinda goofy (I mean, REALLY goofy - for instance, the VF5 wrestler has a cool mask, this one is kinda clowny), and I'm not a fan of the hair coming out of it. But the rest of the design is okay.

Plus, we need to see him in movement. C.Viper looked really weird the first time she was presented (she still looks weird, actually), but she's really cool gameplay-wise.

The only really bad part is that his inclusion kinda implies that R.Mika won't be in it (not that she had real chances anyway, but her name in that SFIV poll was giving me some hope).





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"Re(2):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Wed 12 Mar 21:25post reply

quote:
http://kotaku.com/366743/new-street-fighter-iv-character-leaked

Luche Libre is the new Capoeira.


Looks more like a ninja than a luchadore.



New Street Fighter rule: If you speak Spanish, whether you're a noble psychopath bullfighter or a luchador, you're versed in the ninjutsu art.







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"Re(3):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Wed 12 Mar 21:54post reply

The addition of another grappler makes me very happy.





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"Re(4):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Wed 12 Mar 23:33post reply

quote:
The addition of another grappler makes me very happy.



Yeah, it will bring some diversity into the fighting styles. Sure, Zangief is a wrestler, too (and Abel may be one, although he seems to have a good number of special attacks not involving grabbing), but there are some differences between the "lucha-libre" and the "wrestling", right?

Well, so far the new people are El Fuerte, Abel and Viper. How many more new characters do you all expect to see? I guess at least one more new character is very likely, but will SFIV have more than 4 new characters? That's not very certain, but I hope so.





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"Re(5):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Wed 12 Mar 23:56post reply

quote:
Well, so far the new people are El Fuerte, Abel and Viper. How many more new characters do you all expect to see? I guess at least one more new character is very likely, but will SFIV have more than 4 new characters? That's not very certain, but I hope so.


Honestly, I would be disappointed if it only gets 4 new characters. My ideal would be 8 new characters, but I'd actually be happy with 6. So, I hope they add at least 3 more new characters to the game.

And by the way, I like this new design a lot.





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"Re(6):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Thu 13 Mar 00:06post reply

quote:
Honestly, I would be disappointed if it only gets 4 new characters. My ideal would be 8 new characters, but I'd actually be happy with 6. So, I hope they add at least 3 more new characters to the game.



I agree, 6 looks like a good number to me. 8 would be better, but it's quite unlikely to happen. 4, on the other hand, would be just like they are redoing SSFII but replacing T.Hawk, Dee Jay, Fei-Long and Cammy with C.Viper, El Fuerte, Abel and whoever is the fourth new character.

Let's hope there are at least 3 more new characters, then...





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"Re(7):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Thu 13 Mar 00:10:post reply

I'm too lazy to look, but I read a recent post somewhere... somebody said that there will be a new SF4 character revealed every month before the game comes out.

If that holds true, we will have at least 4 more NEW (hopefully) characters before the game is released in late July/early August.

I like this new character's potential... but I will have to see his actual character model before I question his design. That drawing is a bit heavy on the ink.


EDIT: Capcom's US Blog shows a clearer picture





[this message was edited by EddyT on Thu 13 Mar 02:23]

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"Re(8):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Thu 13 Mar 04:57post reply

quote:
I'm too lazy to look, but I read a recent post somewhere... somebody said that there will be a new SF4 character revealed every month before the game comes out.

If that holds true, we will have at least 4 more NEW (hopefully) characters before the game is released in late July/early August.



Yeah, I read this post, too. It was at GameFAQs, if I'm not mistaken (not sure if the person who posted this info is reliable, though).

That would be great... however, I wonder whether by "new character", they mean a really brand new character or just someone whose presence in SFIV wasn't revealed earlier (like Vega, for instance).





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"Re(9):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Thu 13 Mar 08:49post reply

Wait a minute...

Spanish speaking... check
Sash around the waist... check
Mask... check
Ninja-like pose... check

... WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS TOWN





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"Re(10):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Thu 13 Mar 10:25post reply

quote:
WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS TOWN



A: Hilarious fan speculation.





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"Re(10):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrestler" , posted Thu 13 Mar 20:50post reply

quote:
Wait a minute...

Spanish speaking... check
Sash around the waist... check
Mask... check
Ninja-like pose... check

... WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS TOWN



Don't worry, Vega would never dress himself awkwardly like a luchador, let alone use a mask that doesn't protect his so-called "beautiful" face...





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"Re(2):Re(10):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrest" , posted Thu 13 Mar 23:45post reply

Oh, I wasn't suggesting that he is Vega. I'm just suggesting that maybe he is Vega's replacement.

DUN DUN DUNNNNN





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"Re(3):Re(10):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrest" , posted Fri 14 Mar 00:34post reply

Ah, I see... well, that is possible. I don't think it's very likely, but it is possible.





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"Re(4):Re(10):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrest" , posted Fri 14 Mar 17:47post reply

It's not official yet, but many site reported El fuerte not as He...But as She...






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"Re(5):Re(10):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrest" , posted Fri 14 Mar 17:54post reply

I, uh... I have a pretty good feeling that's a mistake! At least, the official Capcom US blog went with the male thing, and the whole visual thing, and... and... I...







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"Re(6):Re(10):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrest" , posted Fri 14 Mar 18:19post reply

So instead of El Stingray it is Black Widow







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"Re(5):Re(10):El Fuerte, The Lucha Libre Wrest" , posted Fri 14 Mar 20:06post reply

quote:
It's not official yet, but many site reported El fuerte not as He...But as She...



Quite unlikely, though:

1) The name is El Fuerte, not La Fuerte

2) Look at the muscles in the arms; not even Sheeva from MK had big muscles like that

3) Finally, at least from the artwork, it seems that El Fuerte is shirtless. I don't think Capcom would allow a topless female fighter in SFIV. After all, even Tecmo didn't allow topless girls in DOA... not yet, at least.





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"Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 00:16post reply

New pictures. Highlights include C.Viper's jet boots, Abel's attacks and Guile getting punched in the groin.

The home page has been updated as well. Although there aren't any screens of La Fuerte yet most every other picture on the page has been updated. The slide shows in the System menu do a particularly good job of showing off the new effects and details.





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"Re(1):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 04:54post reply

quote:
New pictures. Highlights include C.Viper's jet boots, Abel's attacks and Guile getting punched in the groin.

The home page has been updated as well. Although there aren't any screens of La Fuerte yet most every other picture on the page has been updated. The slide shows in the System menu do a particularly good job of showing off the new effects and details.



I guess Capcom will release more screens of El Fuerte (or La Fuerte? Guess we'll only find out when he/she appears in screenshots, although I'm pretty sure it's a man) in the end of this month or the first weeks of April. Probably his screenshots will be released with screenshots of Sagat and Balrog, and also their official artworks (still not revealed so far).

Then, if that rumour of "a new character revealed each month" is true, we'll probably see a fourth new character (or just another returning character, who knows?) in the middle of April.





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"Re(1):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 05:10post reply

quote:
New pictures. Highlights include C.Viper's jet boots, Abel's attacks and Guile getting punched in the groin.

The home page has been updated as well. Although there aren't any screens of La Fuerte yet most every other picture on the page has been updated. The slide shows in the System menu do a particularly good job of showing off the new effects and details.



Here are the same pics, but without the retarded ign-com tags.





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"Re(2):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 05:27post reply

quote:
New pictures. Highlights include C.Viper's jet boots, Abel's attacks and Guile getting punched in the groin.

The home page has been updated as well. Although there aren't any screens of La Fuerte yet most every other picture on the page has been updated. The slide shows in the System menu do a particularly good job of showing off the new effects and details.


I guess Capcom will release more screens of El Fuerte (or La Fuerte? Guess we'll only find out when he/she appears in screenshots, although I'm pretty sure it's a man) in the end of this month or the first weeks of April. Probably his screenshots will be released with screenshots of Sagat and Balrog, and also their official artworks (still not revealed so far).

Then, if that rumour of "a new character revealed each month" is true, we'll probably see a fourth new character (or just another returning character, who knows?) in the middle of April.



It's a guy for gods sake, what make you think its a female?





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"Re(3):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 05:32post reply

quote:
It's a guy for gods sake, what make you think its a female?



I don't think it's a female. However, remember what NARUTO posted here few days ago...

quote:
It's not official yet, but many site reported El fuerte not as He...But as She...






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"Re(4):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 18:48post reply

quote:
It's a guy for gods sake, what make you think its a female?

I don't think it's a female. However, remember what NARUTO posted here few days ago...

It's not official yet, but many site reported El fuerte not as He...But as She...


Well I don't remember the site anymore but a non-japanese journalist said that he was really surprised when at capcom they showed him the art and tell him that it was a women. The dude was a little disgusted an tell something like this.
"She look like a very bad transexsual, like those old bodybulded grannys, if they wanted a Trans character why not picking up Poison..."

Still as I said I can't tell if the dude was lying or not.






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"Re(5):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 19:42:post reply

Another loketest is planned in Osaka starting Thursday (3/20-3/23) at High-Tech Land at Sega Avion, according to the official site.

EDIT: It looks like this is for testing the ID card system. No word in the blog about whether El Fuerte/ Boxer/ Sagat will be playable, but I doubt it.





[this message was edited by Gojira on Tue 18 Mar 19:50]

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"Re(6):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 20:25post reply

I will be there in Osaka this weekend, and I'm going to try my best to go to the loktest. I hope it's easy to access from the main JR trains and/or subways.





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"Re(7):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 21:02post reply

Elements in favour of female Fuerte:
- long hair, and a palm-tree hairdo
- hides her breasts and Adam's apple
- her floating belt screens her bulging uterus / camel toe
- eyebrows high above the eyes, and seem drawn with eye liner
- small feet
- no body hair
- no scar
...

Elements in favour of male Fuerte:
- neck like a bull's
- more muscular than Chun-Li
- come on, he's topless!
- no feathers in the attire, no ribbon in his hair
...





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"Re(6):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 22:11post reply

quote:
Another loketest is planned in Osaka starting Thursday (3/20-3/23) at High-Tech Land at Sega Avion, according to the official site.

EDIT: It looks like this is for testing the ID card system. No word in the blog about whether El Fuerte/ Boxer/ Sagat will be playable, but I doubt it.



Cool! I hope someone will give us more details about the game (EddyT, maybe?).

And I hope Fuerte is in it, even if unplayable like Sagat and Balrog, just so that we know Fuerte's attacks and the definite answer to whether it's a man or a woman...

I still think it's a man, but things will get interesting if Fuerte is actually a woman... Not sure if it would be nice or not, but the fighting games world does need more ugly women, after all...





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"Re(7):Latest Stuff" , posted Tue 18 Mar 23:41post reply

I will post impressions and such ASAP. I won't have a computer out in Osaka, but I'll post when I can. I'll try to go on the first day, but if not, I'll definitely be there bright and early the next day (Friday).





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"Re(8):Latest Stuff" , posted Fri 21 Mar 01:38post reply

I posted this on another forum...

I was at the loketest today with Reno. No El Fuerte at all, nor playable Sagat or Balrog, no new backgrounds. All that's new is the IC cards. There were just 4 linked cabinets today and no separate cabinets to play the cpu.

Reno and I agree that Zangief is a beast. A lot of people were owning today with him... it's much more difficult to escape his SPDs. You may say it doesn't cause much damage like before, but it's easier to grab from ticks and especially whiffs. His EX piledriver is especially useful. It takes off the same amount of damage as a regular SPD, but what's special about EX SPD is that you can take one hit and then grab... even a multi-hit move like Ken's flaming shoryu and Blanka's electricity. It's not like a Saving Attack... it will actually keep you from hitting the second time. The man is insane now.

There was also a tricky Dhalsim player today, since his teleport is so much faster. His Ultra fireball is slow as hell, but you can teleport quick or walk up to the player, then do mind games to the opponent.

Yes you can still cancel saving attacks with forward or backward dashes.

Yes, Ultras still take off 60 to 70 percent damage, but you know what? A good player isn't going to let you land them. A good player can pressure you but yet protect himself from eating ultras, and you are pretty much wide friggin open when you miss. Of course, people who play sloppy (dash up to you while you're knocked down) will eat an Ultra no problem. For most characters, you have to treat it like a Shin-Shoryuken. You have to play smarter.

With that being said, I actually think Ultras could work in this game, even if it takes so much damage. I still think it could be handled better, but yeah it may work. However, I'm sure someone will have an abusable Ultra and that opinion may change, so take that opinion with a grain of salt. Especially if great players figure out how to exploit them, which would make the rich even richer.

I saw Chun-Li cross-up someone by jumping over and behind them, then seemingly turning around mid-air and hitting them with medium kick. I couldn't believe it, and I will try to see if this is really true.

I had played all characters at least once except Dhalsim and Zangief. The most interesting characters for me were Viper, Blanka and Abel. I have been playing Crimson Viper a lot, who is a quick character that can't anti-air well. One cool thing I did... I hit someone with a full-powered Saving Attack. While they were stunned, I hit my ultra. Needless to say, it was mega damage.

The IC cards... I have only seen Ryu (tons of them) and Ken. Reno claims to have seen a Zangief IC card. The cards contain a comment (like VF or Tekken), your total games played and your wins... along with winning percentage. You can also form your own guilds. Unfortunately, you can only play as one character on your card.

Do not ask me to try out anything during this loketest because I don't have regular internet access. I did the best I could to try things I heard about the game from previous loketests.

My overall impression: I admit to being skeptical about this game when I heard it was going to be in 3D. The game still has some issues to iron out (a tad slow and clunky, some unsightly clipping with 3D models and interaction with clothes/objects). However, graphically it is impressive and it is really fun to play. I think it was worth coming here on Day 1 to take the game for a test drive.





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"Re(9):Latest Stuff" , posted Fri 21 Mar 03:24post reply

Thanks for the impressions. When viewed in demonstration matches the Ultras looked very powerful but if they aren't the sort of thing that can be easily landed they could be a fun addition to the game. If nothing else it would be nice to have super-duper attacks that hearkened back to Fatal Fury 2 style desperation moves that were designed to seriously hurt.

Now I really want to play Zangief.





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"Re(10):Latest Stuff" , posted Fri 21 Mar 09:59post reply

quote:
Thanks for the impressions. When viewed in demonstration matches the Ultras looked very powerful but if they aren't the sort of thing that can be easily landed they could be a fun addition to the game. If nothing else it would be nice to have super-duper attacks that hearkened back to Fatal Fury 2 style desperation moves that were designed to seriously hurt.

Now I really want to play Zangief.



Anytime I hear that the 'Gief is good, I can't help but rejoice. 'Gief being so good in CFJ/CFE is one of that game's few redeeming features.





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"Re(9):Latest Stuff" , posted Sat 22 Mar 09:01post reply

Thank you for the impressions!

It's a pity that El Fuerte wasn't available in the cabinets; it would be really nice to see some in-game screenshots of him.

One question: is Chun-Li a good or bad character to play as? I remember reading someone at GameFAQd saying she was low-tier; is that true?





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"Re(10):Latest Stuff" , posted Sat 22 Mar 19:04post reply

Thank you for your impressions.

But you know, there's no point to make solid tiers at a beta stage (Zangief is good, Chunli is weak, etc). Many weak characters nowadays have been cheap bastards at a beta stage, then have been nerfed to oblivion in the finished product (Anakaris in almost every game he has been in, for example).





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"Re(10):Latest Stuff" , posted Sun 23 Mar 00:53post reply

quote:
Thank you for the impressions!

It's a pity that El Fuerte wasn't available in the cabinets; it would be really nice to see some in-game screenshots of him.

One question: is Chun-Li a good or bad character to play as? I remember reading someone at GameFAQd saying she was low-tier; is that true?



She is not low-tier, she's still good. Just not Zangief or Dhalsim great.

And I think all the guys have to do at Capcom is make sure you can actually jump away from an SPD more than 1/2 the time, and it'll be okay. As it is now, he punishes you too easily, even when your moves HIT him cleanly. He can just mash SPD you back, which is a bit unfair.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Latest Stuff" , posted Mon 24 Mar 07:58post reply

quote:
Thank you for the impressions!

It's a pity that El Fuerte wasn't available in the cabinets; it would be really nice to see some in-game screenshots of him.

One question: is Chun-Li a good or bad character to play as? I remember reading someone at GameFAQd saying she was low-tier; is that true?


She is not low-tier, she's still good. Just not Zangief or Dhalsim great.

And I think all the guys have to do at Capcom is make sure you can actually jump away from an SPD more than 1/2 the time, and it'll be okay. As it is now, he punishes you too easily, even when your moves HIT him cleanly. He can just mash SPD you back, which is a bit unfair.



I've been reading your other reports at srk and it really looks promising. My only concern are Saving attacks, which so far seem not very well integrated into the gameplay. From the several reports, they look like something that it's just there but hasn't any clear purpose.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Latest Stuff" , posted Mon 24 Mar 14:49:post reply

quote:
Thank you for the impressions!

It's a pity that El Fuerte wasn't available in the cabinets; it would be really nice to see some in-game screenshots of him.

One question: is Chun-Li a good or bad character to play as? I remember reading someone at GameFAQd saying she was low-tier; is that true?


She is not low-tier, she's still good. Just not Zangief or Dhalsim great.

And I think all the guys have to do at Capcom is make sure you can actually jump away from an SPD more than 1/2 the time, and it'll be okay. As it is now, he punishes you too easily, even when your moves HIT him cleanly. He can just mash SPD you back, which is a bit unfair.


I've been reading your other reports at srk and it really looks promising. My only concern are Saving attacks, which so far seem not very well integrated into the gameplay. From the several reports, they look like something that it's just there but hasn't any clear purpose.



Hahaha, you know my other nickname on there, huh? Actually, saving attacks are a great mix of offense and defense. I just posted an explanation of the move in detail just 30 minutes ago. This feature alone makes IV feel so different from the others. A lot of top players in the Osaka district were doing crazy stuff with guys like Abel, Ryu and Guile.

Now that you mention it... I forgot that doing a SA will actually keep your charge, even when you dash. For instance, with Guile you can charge down-back, do SA, hit the opponent to stun them, then dash forward immediately to cancel your recovery, then hit with crouching strong punch to flash kick.

I hate to say this, but I'm eating crow. I thought this game was going to be horrible, but now I feel like I'm 15 years old again, reading EGM and waiting for the next SF to come out to the arcades.





[this message was edited by EddyT on Mon 24 Mar 15:26]

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"Re(4):Re(10):Latest Stuff" , posted Mon 24 Mar 15:30post reply

quote:

I hate to say this, but I'm eating crow. I thought this game was going to be horrible, but now I feel like I'm 15 years old, reading EGM and waiting for the next SF to come out to the arcades.



You got me hyped.

Regarding SA's... In your SRK post you mentioned that SAs will absorb the first hit of any attack but the health damage that attack would have done get's grayed out on your health bar. If your opponent succeeds in connecting a hit while you have that grayed out portion, you will receive the damage of that hit plus whatever gray portion is on your life bar. The gray portion slowly converts back to regular health. I didn't explain this as finely as you did but the point I'm trying to make is that I'm thinking this is a great way to balance the effectiveness of SAs.

One of the things I completely hated about 3S is that even "safe" attacks like LPs or LKs could get parried and you could suffer 20%-100% damage from that. If a player can't attack with "safe" moves then you're just going to make everyone turtle and parry all the time.

It looks like SF4 will give players the ability to do anticipatory counters but it will come with a price and they can't be spammed like in 3S. (That's what I predict anyway)





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"Re(4):Re(10):Latest Stuff" , posted Mon 24 Mar 23:59:post reply

I think that is one of a few reasons why parries weren't liked by some in the III series. Yes, the risk of getting hit was enough to not abuse the parry so much, but an opponent parrying a random poke on purpose or by accident can be bad news. I like SAs because it has to be intentional, and you're putting more on the line if this kind of defense fails.

I really wish I could play this game again... I learned a lot just by discussing SFIV to the people at SRK. I'm just glad that there's so much interest in a fighting game series that had been dormant for 8-9 years.





[this message was edited by EddyT on Tue 25 Mar 00:04]