Anime Industry go boom in the US! - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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Satoshi_Miwa
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"Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 10:08post reply

Looks like ADV is going the Geneon route in North America - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-01-28/adv-films-removes-titles-from-website

If the worst case scenario comes true I don't think this will be the last company to go under in NA....






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Mozex
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"Re(1):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 10:32post reply

So, they just de-listed some titles that they were previously going to release?





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Satoshi_Miwa
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"Re(2):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 10:57post reply

quote:
So, they just de-listed some titles that they were previously going to release?



While there is no comment from ADV right now, the general rumors going around is that these titles won't be released at all. Add in the fact ADV stopped publishing Newtype, and the Anime Network Standard TV channel went bye bye and you have people thinking it's going to bite the big one.

Especially given the fact it's never really recovered from it's horrible, horrible failure in Manga.





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"Re(1):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 11:18post reply

quote:
Looks like ADV is going the Geneon route in North America - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-01-28/adv-films-removes-titles-from-website

If the worst case scenario comes true I don't think this will be the last company to go under in NA....

So, does that mean that the titles there are just gonna die mid-series? I thought Welcome to the NHK wasn't fully released yet or something? If that's true, I know someone that's gonna be pissed. Heh heh. I want to see more Keroro Gunsou, but I didn't even know it was gonna be released on DVD here... so that sucks.





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"Re(2):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 12:33:post reply

Well, I'm supposed to start working on a new show tomorrow, so I'll see what they say. They generally keep their employees in the dark, though.





[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Tue 29 Jan 12:53]

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"The anime exodus awaits?" , posted Tue 29 Jan 12:37:post reply

Whoa. First Pioneer/Geneon. Now this.

You know, I shouldn't really be surprised to be honest. Despite all of the glitters you see in America regarding anime, it's in that bad of state. I actually should be saying that anime is in a more horrible state overall than ever. I can go ahead and list various reasons why, but I'm sure you don't need to go through them again.

Here's the thing. I'm all for supporting the industry, but I don't have time to watch anime anymore. Yes, I have a family DVD player, but I hardly~ use it in general. I am constantly on the go and that's a reason why I like reading manga more.

Maybe I should rent a title like "Nanaka" tomorrow.







うぐう!

[this message was edited by Bata kun on Tue 29 Jan 12:39]

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"Re(3):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 13:16post reply

quote:
Well, I'm supposed to start working on a new show tomorrow, so I'll see what they say. They generally keep their employees in the dark, though.



Now that I think about it, I wonder what a job interview with you would be like.

Are you snarky and elitist, or do you disguise yourself as a regular person who happens to have all the right interests and requirements for the job?

I do kind of wonder how much anime DVDs sell in north america when the people that are interested in that have long been used to downloading it from the internet or FTPs, though.





Satoshi_Miwa
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"Re(4):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 14:26post reply

To be fair I don't think the downturn in the industry is the main reason ADV went down. A lot of things fall on their own shoulders if they end up going down or being downsized. They didn't do a lot of changes when they got their cash infusion after their failed manga venture. And just sorta of kept going in a business as usual sense...

But changes do need to come to the market. Be it on the fansub side, or on the DVD side. As much as Japan hates it, the US market really can't support single volume TV series releases anymore. And unless they wake up to the fact the cash flow they need from the US market will dissapear....

Also, it'd help if they stopped releasing so much crap too. The volume and lack of quality of the product is getting pretty bad. For every 3-4 great series you get about 10 decent to okay ones and a pile of bad ones. It seems like every manga /game gets a TV series even if they don't deserve it...-.-





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"Re(4):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 15:26post reply

quote:
Now that I think about it, I wonder what a job interview with you would be like.

And I wonder which sexual persona you assume.





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"Re(5):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 15:39post reply

quote:
Now that I think about it, I wonder what a job interview with you would be like.
And I wonder which sexual persona you assume.



Also an excellent question!





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"Re(3):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 15:56post reply

quote:
Well, I'm supposed to start working on a new show tomorrow, so I'll see what they say. They generally keep their employees in the dark, though.



look who's revealing what company she works with now! bizarre...odd things happen when you step out for a bit.





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"Re(5):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 15:58post reply

quote:
But changes do need to come to the market. Be it on the fansub side, or on the DVD side. As much as Japan hates it, the US market really can't support single volume TV series releases anymore. And unless they wake up to the fact the cash flow they need from the US market will dissapear....

Also, it'd help if they stopped releasing so much crap too. The volume and lack of quality of the product is getting pretty bad. For every 3-4 great series you get about 10 decent to okay ones and a pile of bad ones. It seems like every manga /game gets a TV series even if they don't deserve it...-.-

Honestly, I hope they DON'T follow after the US and start cranking out anime that go on and on until the well runs dry and everyone is sick of it. That's one of the things that really appealed to me about anime was that series would END at some point. Sure, some had "second seasons" or spin-offs or whatever you want to call it, but at least a large majority (of what I've seen) don't keep going until they run it into the ground. Airmaster? Fun show, done. Azumanga? Awesome show, done. Cowboy Bebop? Great show, done. Throw an extra movie in here and there and keep it at that.

I'm sure the lack of quality thing you mentioned is just more noticeable these days since the exposure's so much higher. We're more aware of these shows now, so we're catching more than just the classics overseas... It's not hard to believe that there were duds in the past. They just weren't successful enough to make it out of Japan.





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"Re(5):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 16:01post reply

quote:

Also, it'd help if they stopped releasing so much crap too. The volume and lack of quality of the product is getting pretty bad. For every 3-4 great series you get about 10 decent to okay ones and a pile of bad ones. It seems like every manga /game gets a TV series even if they don't deserve it...-.-



Holy crap, I'm not the only one who believes that.

I haven't actually bought any Anime DVDs in over 5 years. There's practically no way to distinguish what's actually worth buying or not anymore (of course that's beside my general opinion that nearly everything put out these days is pure crap).

That, and I got incredibly lazy and just Tivo what's on Cartoon Network (of course, Ghost in the Shell predates my Tivo, so I might have to hunt that down).





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Satoshi_Miwa
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"Re(6):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 16:41post reply

quote:

Honestly, I hope they DON'T follow after the US and start cranking out anime that go on and on until the well runs dry and everyone is sick of it. That's one of the things that really appealed to me about anime was that series would END at some point. Sure, some had "second seasons" or spin-offs or whatever you want to call it, but at least a large majority (of what I've seen) don't keep going until they run it into the ground. Airmaster? Fun show, done. Azumanga? Awesome show, done. Cowboy Bebop? Great show, done. Throw an extra movie in here and there and keep it at that.

I'm sure the lack of quality thing you mentioned is just more noticeable these days since the exposure's so much higher. We're more aware of these shows now, so we're catching more than just the classics overseas... It's not hard to believe that there were duds in the past. They just weren't successful enough to make it out of Japan.



They have been churning out anime chasing after the US market. After the Cartoon Network boom you'll notice the amount of shows being produced exploding. A lot of them being done so they can both get the Japanese DVD sales and the lucrative US sales too. Around 03/04 it was really bad, as almost everything was getting picked up.

See, that's the big kicker about all of this too. The Japanese anime industry is also do for a major correction too. Too many shows on TV, and not enough stuff pulling it's weight. Your going to start seeing some of the smaller studios go out of business soon. (Part of the reason Geneon left the US was due to the market shift and future market shift in Japan). Throw in censorship concerns and a bit to much Moe on TV and you've got a bubble that will probably burst big time soon...





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"Re(6):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 16:43post reply

For the record, I work for several companies, but I've never had an official interview. The best way to get in is through the back door, so to speak.

Though it might be worth mentioning that a friend/coworker of mine was once told "if I had known you were an anime fan, I wouldn't have hired you".

So yeah, being a "snarky elitist" is a good way not to get hired. But honestly, I'm cheery, energetic and a bit shy in person. If you try to "rock the boat" too much at work, you get fired. The entertainment industry especially is full of people who only tell you what you want to hear and expect everyone else to extend them the same courtesy. I would say that's one reason why ADV might be in trouble. Their failure to secure TV deals is another.

But as people have said, it really is Japan's fault. They treat US companies like crap. They overcharge them, they make them buy crap series before they'll sell them the rights to good ones, and they withhold necessary materials (like masters!) for months and they insist on nonsensical "official" English names.





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"Re(7):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 29 Jan 16:50post reply

quote:

But as people have said, it really is Japan's fault. They treat US companies like crap. They overcharge them, they make them buy crap series before they'll sell them the rights to good ones, and they withhold necessary materials (like masters!) for months and they insist on nonsensical "official" English names.



And yet they all want the US Money...Boy will they be sorry when it dries up!

Part of Japan's fears are justified, don't get me wrong. Us imports do scare them, as they're cheaper than the 1-2 episode discs they get there for 30-40 bucks. But I think everybody in the market saw a little too much green from the glory days and didn't see the market changes coming to adjust.

After all it's not as if the core market is going anywhere. A lot are still in the manga field which after a brief correction is back to growing. Of course Manga is much cheaper to produce and buy over here so pitfalls are less likely...





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"Re(7):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Wed 30 Jan 03:02post reply

quote:

But as people have said, it really is Japan's fault. They treat US companies like crap. They overcharge them, they make them buy crap series before they'll sell them the rights to good ones, and they withhold necessary materials (like masters!) for months and they insist on nonsensical "official" English names.



Yeah, but also US companies are being pressured to buy up new licenses as early as possible now by fans, even before they know much about them. The industry in Japan does sort of take advantage of that, but who can say that if they didn't it wouldn't still happen? Frankly I think the problem goes much deeper than that.





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"Re(6):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Wed 30 Jan 10:07post reply

quote:
I haven't actually bought any Anime DVDs in over 5 years. There's practically no way to distinguish what's actually worth buying or not anymore (of course that's beside my general opinion that nearly everything put out these days is pure crap).

That, and I got incredibly lazy and just Tivo what's on Cartoon Network (of course, Ghost in the Shell predates my Tivo, so I might have to hunt that down).



I bought an Azumanga Daioh brick, partly because it was cheap. Can't think of anything else. I don't even know what has been released in the last few years. I would have bought Black Lagoon, but Geneon then Geneon went under.

It is increasingly hard for me to justify paying anime DVD prices. I have other interests, and anime has become less interesting at the same time. Plus the prices of new releases just aren't favorable compared to US shows, buying at discount, or waiting maybe years for a low-priced brick. Even when I do run across a show I like, I don't want to pay the asking price.





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"Re(7):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Wed 30 Jan 12:10:post reply

quote:

I bought an Azumanga Daioh brick, partly because it was cheap. Can't think of anything else. I don't even know what has been released in the last few years. I would have bought Black Lagoon, but Geneon then Geneon went under.

It is increasingly hard for me to justify paying anime DVD prices. I have other interests, and anime has become less interesting at the same time. Plus the prices of new releases just aren't favorable compared to US shows, buying at discount, or waiting maybe years for a low-priced brick. Even when I do run across a show I like, I don't want to pay the asking price.



I feel a lot better hearing that and numerous other posts in this thread.

For some reason anime doesn't appeal as strongly as it used to for me as with anything interesting and up and coming as well. Then speaking of prices, I wanted to go pick up actually that Guyver series that finished up a while back but 26 or 29 dollars for one dvd had to turn me down completely. Either I must be shopping wrong completely and must not know where to look.
In a sense it kind of actually pushed me back into the direction Marvel and DC comics.

Any idea how regular network tv views anime for their specific channel to bring in the specific age demographic? Not related to Cable or satellite?






This song is so true

[this message was edited by catalyst on Wed 30 Jan 12:11]

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"Re(8):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Wed 30 Jan 13:53post reply

Haven't bought anime in a while myself either. I think the last thing I got was Ghost in the Shell TV, first series. Never bothered with the second. It's a combination of declining interest and declining quality in what's been released. No new series has grabbed me in a long while.

When I saw so many meh series getting released and so many shelves stocked with manga, I expected this to burst soon. Pioneer and ADV were the two big companies when I was still into it. With one gone and another teetering, it's an odd feeling.

On the other hand, if the market collapses, I'll be able to see my unwanted anime for stupidly high prices!





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"Re(9):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Wed 30 Jan 15:45post reply

quote:
Haven't bought anime in a while myself either. I think the last thing I got was Ghost in the Shell TV, first series. Never bothered with the second. It's a combination of declining interest and declining quality in what's been released. No new series has grabbed me in a long while.

When I saw so many meh series getting released and so many shelves stocked with manga, I expected this to burst soon. Pioneer and ADV were the two big companies when I was still into it. With one gone and another teetering, it's an odd feeling.

On the other hand, if the market collapses, I'll be able to see my unwanted anime for stupidly high prices!



Manga should survive this pretty well untouched, except for fewer titles here and more of the fringe companies pulling out. They've already had a downturn period when ADV Manga crashed and burned and the costs of producing manga are so much cheaper that your risking less if a title busts.

Not to mention Shonen Jump is still a strong label, with those and Shoujo Beat selling really well. If anything it looks like Manga might pick up a bit of the anime fan base given it's lower pricing and superior format.





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"Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Thu 31 Jan 00:06post reply

Less creepy otaku people in the world woohoo!





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"Re(2):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Thu 31 Jan 03:33post reply

quote:
Less creepy otaku people in the world woohoo!



Yeah there is a positive light on that definitely lol. Can't even talk to one in a sane fashion without a naruto headband being whipped out as a conversational piece.






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"Re(3):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Thu 31 Jan 09:30post reply

I admit I haven't bought or watched anime in a few years myself.

For me the point I stopped caring was when the demographics changed. My memories of why anime first started to trickle into America as a new subculture was due to the adult aspect of it. Who here remembers those late night commercials with risque clips from Ninja Scroll and Akira? They even had a Time-Life thing going on where they shipped you new tapes every month.

For me, once the industry started focusing on pushing pre-teen and teen shows like Naruto and Inuyasha I lost interest. I liked it more when it was "omg, cartoons for grown ups!" even though we all know anime fans hate the genre being called a cartoon.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Thu 31 Jan 14:59post reply

quote:
Less creepy otaku people in the world woohoo!



But Zepy, you're a creepy otaku. :(





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"Re(3):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Thu 31 Jan 16:00post reply

quote:
But Zepy, you're a creepy otaku. :(



Yeah he is. =[

Especially after that maid cafe incident in Akiba last month.

Creeeeeeee-pyyyyyyyyyy

HINT: It involved macaroni and a makeshift pulley made of forks, dental floss and salt shakers.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Fri 1 Feb 12:34post reply

quote:
Less creepy otaku people in the world woohoo!


But Zepy, you're a creepy otaku. :(



Wa~! You have returned!

Oh and I will not comment on Zepeh's remark. =P







うぐう!

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"Re(4):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Fri 1 Feb 14:44post reply

quote:
But Zepy, you're a creepy otaku. :(


Yeah he is. =[

Especially after that maid cafe incident in Akiba last month.

Creeeeeeee-pyyyyyyyyyy

HINT: It involved macaroni and a makeshift pulley made of forks, dental floss and salt shakers.



Huh? What happened at a maid cafe? And more importantly, was Zepy involved?





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"Re(5):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Fri 1 Feb 15:55post reply

I've had a shift from anime to just plain US cartoons. They are just funnier and cheaper to enjoy.

I think my tastes have changed. I'm kind of tired of the "bad ass cool" show and moe is a turn off. I like funny stuff and Japan doesn't seem to do just straight up funny stuff. The last dvds I bought was Cromartie High and I'm watching ShinChan on TV. Because they're all comedy and lean toward a US style of humor.





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"Re(1):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Fri 1 Feb 16:12:post reply

I watch about the same amount, but I never really watched anything that would come out on DVD in the U.S. anyway. Nobody here cares about anything from the 70's or 80's. I think people downloading everything instead of buying it has probably damaged these companies just about as much as anything else. I guess what I'm saying is, I hate most anime fans around here anyway, as they're mostly of.. the "Naruto" crowd, and I'm too much of an elitist prick to tolerate them. So I'm kind of glad it's dying down a bit, haw haw.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Fri 1 Feb 16:20]

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"Re(6):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Fri 1 Feb 17:45post reply

quote:
I've had a shift from anime to just plain US cartoons. They are just funnier and cheaper to enjoy.



Merrie Melodies nevers grows old , since long ago, with some friends, we go on a "frame per frame" analysis / review of certain chapters, and is incredible amazing how well the show can look frame per frame, and you can see a lot of funny / insteresting screens that otherwise are hard to see (for example, when one characters ends up spinning for some reason, in some cases, the spinning is incredibly well detailed with funny expresions. Most of these shows and many others (like early Disney) can hold their own a lot better than most recent us stuff.

And I won't even get started when anime painted their back grounds / characters using ink instead of paint shop pro





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"Re(6):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Fri 1 Feb 17:52post reply

quote:
I've had a shift from anime to just plain US cartoons. They are just funnier and cheaper to enjoy.


WE LOVE USA FOREVER

On the topic of US cartoons, I was sad when I saw Enchanted and realised that Disney can no longer do cartoon animations like they used too.





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"Re(2):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Sat 2 Feb 06:33post reply

quote:
Huh? What happened at a maid cafe? And more importantly, was Zepy involved?


I must know know about this too. All I remember is the maid taxi service thing being stopped. =P

quote:
I watch about the same amount, but I never really watched anything that would come out on DVD in the U.S. anyway. Nobody here cares about anything from the 70's or 80's. I think people downloading everything instead of buying it has probably damaged these companies just about as much as anything else. I guess what I'm saying is, I hate most anime fans around here anyway, as they're mostly of.. the "Naruto" crowd, and I'm too much of an elitist prick to tolerate them. So I'm kind of glad it's dying down a bit, haw haw.


Ha ha ha! I wouldn't mind finishing a series like "Kimagure Orange Road" actually. (I swear. People here need to see "Kimagure Orange Road" and a whole bunch of other series.) I don't even remember the last fan subbed series I finished. I wouldn't be surprised if "Zero no Tsukaima's" first season probably is it, but these days, I don't watch fan subs as much as I used to. If I could, I'd probably watch "Shugo Chara" or "Clannad" right now. Was going to add "Kimikiss", but J.C. killed it. --'







うぐう!

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"Re(2):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Sun 3 Feb 13:14post reply

quote:
I guess what I'm saying is, I hate most anime fans around here anyway, as they're mostly of.. the "Naruto" crowd, and I'm too much of an elitist prick to tolerate them. So I'm kind of glad it's dying down a bit, haw haw.



Hey Red Falcon,

You're in the DC area right? You might be intersted in this:

http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/festivals/07-08/japan/events.cfm?genre_pick=FLM

The Kennedy center is having a Japan festival and this year they are premiering (for the US) some cool anime including 5cm per second (which has some of the best color composition ive ever seen in anything) and Genius Party, the newest from Studio 4C, who have done some of the most exciting animation of the past decade. As an extra treat for anyone into 4C style stuff, the manga artist Robin Nishi (author of the manga MINDGAME was based off of) will be there for a week doing sketches every day. If you like experimental films, art films and/or are tired of the anime industry, but still like good anime, you should check this out.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Mon 4 Feb 03:38post reply

quote:

For me, once the industry started focusing on pushing pre-teen and teen shows like Naruto and Inuyasha I lost interest. I liked it more when it was "omg, cartoons for grown ups!" even though we all know anime fans hate the genre being called a cartoon.



When I found out my mom regularly watched Inuyasha (when it was still showing new episodes on Cartoon Network) and my dad Tivo'd it for her that was just kind of strange. I guess it was like a late-night soap for her.





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"Re(2):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 04:45:post reply

quote:
I guess what I'm saying is, I hate most anime fans around here anyway, as they're mostly of.. the "Naruto" crowd, and I'm too much of an elitist prick to tolerate them. So I'm kind of glad it's dying down a bit, haw haw.


That's wierd. The reason I never joined any of those clubs was because they were elitist pricks...they always have these leaders who claim theselves as experts but they were (and still are) too shallow in their knowledge and exposure to justify their stature.

It's like their views on Japan are all based off of anime/manga, and think its some holyland of geniuses or something...They all act like sheep and turned something that was once just a small hobby into some sort of religion, like a subculture meme.

Think of 4chan and you'll know why I hate anime nowdays. But like you, I'm glad the industry is dying...in America. At least now I won't be buggered by those people wearing Bleach shirts in my Japanese class.

Edit: And no, I'm not one of theose people who watch Naruto and other American-hyped shit. And I'm too busy to commit myself to do something like downloading fansubs.





[this message was edited by sfried on Mon 4 Feb 05:00]

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"Re(3):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 05:05post reply

quote:
If you like experimental films, art films and/or are tired of the anime industry, but still like good anime, you should check this out.

Thanks for pointing out Genius Party, nobi! I will be there...don't suppose you or others will be? You've hit the nail on the head, too...there seems to have been a mistaken view of animation as a genre rather than a medium abroad (US in particular), and it can make people more tolerant of stuff that isn't very challenging or interesting.

There are about as many good animations as there are films, I think (a small number amongst a great many), so I'm really excited to hear that these new films should be good. I hope so, anyway---other new animators that were arrogantly described as the "new Miyazaki" like Shinkai Makoto were pretty disappointing. "She and Her Cat" was great, but his two films so far were pretty but completely cluttered and uninteresting story-wise.

Luckily there are still folks like the MINDGAME creators...cannot WAIT for Genius Party.





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"Re(4):Anime Industry goes nowhere in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 06:24post reply

While I enjoy schadenfreude as much as the next person did anyone catch the news that ADV is re-jiggering their Spring schedule to include Blu-Ray? The death throes of ADV may have been more akin to a Victorian lady swooning than anything.

Still, I do miss the ADV of old. Back in the day they would either release sleazeball titles or would take some innocuous thing and make it sound like something awful. I don't know who used to write the copy for the back of their videos but they deserved to win an award for their work. It was grand, goofy stuff and often far more entertaining than the videos. When people pine for the good old days of anime fandom I wonder if they remember things like that.





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"Re(3):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 08:44post reply

quote:

Think of 4chan and you'll know why I hate anime nowdays. But like you, I'm glad the industry is dying...in America. At least now I won't be buggered by those people wearing Bleach shirts in my Japanese class.



This thread has been too much for me to keep up with, with all the things I want to say, but this is just too wrong for me to keep quiet.

Even if the industry isn't doing well in America, anime is still rising in popularity. The market that you hate (kids that watch Bleach and Naruto and 4chan goers) are growing and growing regardless of how many companies go down. Actually, I think the 4chan crowd usually CHEERS when a company goes down, because that makes it easier for them to pirate things.

The fans that you'll see less of aren't cool people. They're socially inept, but they're nice. They're not scum. They sure as hell beat the hateful pirate crowd.

I'm sorry if that sounded hateful. I'm not trying to direct any malice at you or anything, I think you just misunderstood the situation.





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"Re(4):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 09:24:post reply

quote:
This thread has been too much for me to keep up with, with all the things I want to say, but this is just too wrong for me to keep quiet.

Even if the industry isn't doing well in America, anime is still rising in popularity. The market that you hate (kids that watch Bleach and Naruto and 4chan goers) are growing and growing regardless of how many companies go down. Actually, I think the 4chan crowd usually CHEERS when a company goes down, because that makes it easier for them to pirate things.

The fans that you'll see less of aren't cool people. They're socially inept, but they're nice. They're not scum. They sure as hell beat the hateful pirate crowd.

Edit: So you're saying that the more informed people exist because of the industry? I thought they existed because of subculture...





[this message was edited by sfried on Mon 4 Feb 09:31]

Pollyanna
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"Re(5):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 10:40post reply

quote:

Edit: So you're saying that the more informed people exist because of the industry? I thought they existed because of subculture...



I'm sorry...I don't understand what you're asking at all. I mean, I don't understand how that relates to what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that "more informed" anime fans exist because of the American industry, though. I just don't understand the relevance.





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"Re(6):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 10:45post reply

quote:
I'm not saying that "more informed" anime fans exist because of the American industry, though. I just don't understand the relevance.



If that's the case, then what do we lose from losing the American anime industry? They don't know anything anyway...





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"Re(4):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 11:10post reply

quote:

Thanks for pointing out Genius Party, nobi! I will be there...don't suppose you or others will be?



I'll definitely be there, just keep an eye out for the guy with the Naruto headband and Bleach shirt with Full Metal Alchemist hoodie. Haha I kid.

But I'll definitely be there. I love Studio 4 C. There are very few studios in animation or live action that have their business model of putting the artists first. It's rare that you get to see any sort of production where the result is what the creators truly wanted.

I don't really feel like Anime is in too bad of a slump right now because there are still studios like 4C putting out amazing work and getting recognition for it here in the US and abroad. Of course, I'm talking about it from the production side, I'm no expert on how the industry is doing in the US.

quote:

The fans that you'll see less of aren't cool people. They're socially inept, but they're nice. They're not scum.


I gotta show some support for you on this. There's too much hatred towards anime fans or "weaboos" as those in the know like to call them. There's nothing inherently wrong with openly enjoying Inu Yasha or Naruto. There's also nothing wrong with taking Japanese class cos you like anime. That's as good of a reason as anything else.

I can put up with the fan girls and boys because they are at least genuinely interested and excited about what they like.

But I can't stand the people who feel superior to those fans, just because they like more obscure series, or even worse, because they like stuff outside of anime and that somehow makes them a more well rounded and complete human being (like for instance "The Answer Man" from Animenewsnetwork.com ).

Doh, now I sound hateful. Anyway, I'm not saying anyone on this board is an elitist asshole (I haven't met most of you in person before), just saying there are better things to hate out there than your average US anime otaku.

So lets forget all the hateration and show support for the things we like.





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"Re(7):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 11:37post reply

quote:
I'm not saying that "more informed" anime fans exist because of the American industry, though. I just don't understand the relevance.


If that's the case, then what do we lose from losing the American anime industry? They don't know anything anyway...



I still don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that since people who buy anime aren't as big of "experts" as the people who pirate it, there's no need for the industry?

So, less obnoxious people who support the industry they love are irrelevant in the face of assholes who pirate everything simply because the pirates "know more"?

Then I guess the next step is "since all anime fans are assholes, then why do we need anime at all?"

I don't know if you're being sarcastic and trying to make fun of me, or you're just being really hateful towards anime fans or what...





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"Re(8):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 11:48:post reply

See, that's the crux of it. On one hand you have the lowest common denominator who always like to come up with hasty generalizations based on their limited experience, and on the other you have the elitist jerks who think their view and only their view is the truth. We end up with two extremes, and I hate both of them to be honest. That's what's the problem with American culture in general: It's always a dichotomy.

Not that I'm not open to people who are willing to know more about Japanese animation (and more about real customs and culture) in general. I'm open to the new fans, but it's not the end-all-be-all of mediums like some people would like to point it out as, so if they came there for that, then I don't know what to tell those people. Like alot of things in American culture, its highly overrated for its "underrated" status.

In fact, back in the country from I was from, it was mostly kept among ourselves rather than trying to make an "industry" out of it today... (and there was no relative cuture shock that made it "oh-so-different")





[this message was edited by sfried on Mon 4 Feb 11:56]

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"Re(9):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 14:04:post reply

I don't really see the argument here, but I am interested in two parts of whatever the deal is with animation fandom in the US of late. On one hand, I can see the lamentations of fans in the US who back in the day had to hand-subtitle and distribute titles on VHS and had a community born of scarcity, long before domestic companies decided to make the source of their hobby into an industry of its own.

At the same time, the difficulty of watching this animation from elsewhere and of making an underground around it sort of made Japanese animation into a genre whereas it probably ought to be seen as a medium. Does one like "anime?" Probably the same way one likes film: one likes the good ones.

Maybe the 'strata' of anime fans in the US has been created by this strange genre-ization of the animation medium. Given the level of public knowledge that I gather the US has of Japanese animation at this point, maybe soon it won't be an issue of people who like popular low-grade stuff being a disgrace to anime culture or whatever that is, but just of them having bad taste in the same way that people who like bad movies have bad taste. They won't be defaming this phantom genre of "anime" because anime won't necessarily mean one thing or the other, just that it's not live-action. Sure, there are some "fans of anime" in Japan, too, but the average dude will just have stuff he likes that may happen to be animated, and maybe the US audiences could/should move to something similar.





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[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 4 Feb 14:06]

sfried
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"Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 14:37:post reply

quote:
I don't really see the argument here, but I am interested in two parts of whatever the deal is with animation fandom in the US of late. On one hand, I can see the lamentations of fans in the US who back in the day had to hand-subtitle and distribute titles on VHS and had a community born of scarcity, long before domestic companies decided to make the source of their hobby into an industry of its own.

At the same time, the difficulty of watching this animation from elsewhere and of making an underground around it sort of made Japanese animation into a genre whereas it probably ought to be seen as a medium. Does one like "anime?" Probably the same way one likes film: one likes the good ones.

Maybe the 'strata' of anime fans in the US has been created by this strange genre-ization of the animation medium. Given the level of public knowledge that I gather the US has of Japanese animation at this point, maybe soon it won't be an issue of people who like popular low-grade stuff being a disgrace to anime culture or whatever that is, but just of them having bad taste in the same way that people who like bad movies have bad taste. They won't be defaming this phantom genre of "anime" because anime won't necessarily mean one thing or the other, just that it's not live-action. Sure, there are some "fans of anime" in Japan, too, but the average dude will just have stuff he likes that may happen to be animated, and maybe the US audiences could/should move to something similar.



Thank you Maou. This is exactly what I mean. There are those who will treat it like a medium, and those who would treat it like a genre. I despise the latter, if not because of the many hasty generalization they come up with Japanese animation being "superior" mainly because "Western" animation has not evolved from anything outside of the Disney, Hanna Barbera, and Loony Tunes. It really bugs me because I've really seen alot of underground independent animators trying to make a career out of being an animator, when they get slapped in the face because what they do isn't "anime".

The result? They become unoriginal for the sake of conforming. Why? Because the industry demands it. People are sheep and flock to the latest trend. They just watch anime because they see everyone else watching it, as oppose to making decisions for themselves as to whether or not a certain show appeals to them.

And I see the elitists as nothing but herders, trying to sway people to "see the light" but in reality blinding them from the fact that it isn't being Japanese which makes anime appealing.

At least this is a problem I see exclusive to the US.





[this message was edited by sfried on Mon 4 Feb 14:48]

Burning Ranger
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"Re(1):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 14:51post reply

quote:
Looks like ADV is going the Geneon route in North America - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-01-28/adv-films-removes-titles-from-website

If the worst case scenario comes true I don't think this will be the last company to go under in NA....



I feel like I ought to weigh in on this too.

I think the real problem with the American Anime-industry collapse is that there was too much saturation. That is, the more the masses began to like Anime, the more the publishers wanted to bring over. This is what ticks me off the most because a lot of the stuff that was brought in was crap. I blame the mass popularity of Anime on Dragonball, Pokemon and Sailor Moon. All of which IMHO were of low quality to begin with, which probably brings up questions about society in general (but I won't go there).

It was a matter of time before this would happen, and I think it's a sign of what may come for the video game industry. I get the feeling that there's going to be a second crash of the video game industry because just like in the days of the Atari, today we're being saturated by many craptacular games across 3 consoles and 2 handhelds. For every good game to be released, I reckon there are 4-10 bad games out there. What does that say?

But I digress...back to the Anime. I maintain it was bound to happen. A part of me is sad that this is the way it's all going. But then at the same time, a part of me wants to go back when Anime was truly a word-of-mouth niche with a few companies that brought over truly good anime.

Then again what do I know?





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nobinobita
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"Re(2):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Mon 4 Feb 18:24:post reply

quote:
There are those who will treat it like a medium, and those who would treat it like a genre.

...

It really bugs me because I've really seen alot of underground independent animators trying to make a career out of being an animator, when they get slapped in the face because what they do isn't "anime".

The result? They become unoriginal for the sake of conforming. Why? Because the industry demands it.



I totally agree with you guys that its a medium and not a genre.

I'm curious about your comments on animators being forced to conform to anime stylings though. I work in animation and from my experience the field here is pretty anti anime. And I mean this from the most commercial houses to the Art houses. People involved in animation here generally look down on anime. There are lots of people here and there that enjoy it, but there are also many people who dislike it simply because it's Japanese.

I had a teacher who was an ex Disney guy who just couldn't stand anything "anime". It broke my heart cos I learned alot from him and consider him a mentor. But everytime I tried to show him something good like Memories, or MINDGAME or Ghibli stuff, he'd go out of his way to find reasons to dislike it.

I'm not saying that everyone is a rabid racist, but I've met dozens of animators who won't even give any anime a chance simply because they've convinced themselves its a genre, not a medium, and its uniformly bad. And they see nothing wrong with that logic.

Furthermore, i've seen lots of students go to school inspired to study animation because they like anime, only to be told it's wrong and American animation is superior. The ones with weaker wills are bullied into believing so and "learn the error of their ways" and renounce Anime.

That may sound like an extreme example, but Ive seen it happen lots of times.

I wish people could just enjoy animation as a medium as you've expressed, but for some reason it's easy to consider a country of origin a genre, which is of course absurd.

It's not all bad though.

I once watched Steamboy with a veteran Disney animator (and I mean veteran, this guy was a lead on The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, and every other Disney feature from the 80s through the 90s).

I was hesitant to ask his opinion of it, given my previous experiences with Disney guys. He watched it for a while then he said "I can't help thinking of what Eric Larson said about animation--that if you can do it in real life, then why bother animating it".

I thought he was going to go into a diatribe about how the characters and movements weren't exagerated enough, but he continued. He said, "this goes against everything I learned at Disney, but before I was an animator my first love was illustration, and this is illustrated beautifully." He enjoyed Steamboy, he thought it was beautifully done, because he could enjoy it for what it was, rather than hating it for what it's not.

Whenever I find myself dwelling on negative experiences, I just calm myself down by recalling a good one. I'm hoping I'll live longer this way.





[this message was edited by nobinobita on Mon 4 Feb 18:30]

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"Re(2):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Mon 4 Feb 19:02post reply

quote:
I blame the mass popularity of Anime on Dragonball, Pokemon and Sailor Moon. All of which IMHO were of low quality to begin with

There, there. Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon were extremely high quality products... when they were produced, in the early 90s. Also, they were shows designed to appeal to the broadest audience possible, and they succeeded.

Saying these series are low quality because you dislike them is again treating anime as a global genre, and looking for something that is by definition not in widely popular shows. It's like if you were blaming Heroes for not being as well written as Twin Peaks, or saying Stephen King should read more Hemingway.

Maybe another problem would be that the most popular shows in the US are over 10 years old. This isn't healthy for anyone, not even for the parent japanese companies.





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"Re(3):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 5 Feb 02:20post reply

quote:

Hey Red Falcon,

You're in the DC area right? You might be intersted in this:

http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/festivals/07-08/japan/events.cfm?genre_pick=FLM

The Kennedy center is having a Japan festival and this year they are premiering (for the US) some cool anime including 5cm per second (which has some of the best color composition ive ever seen in anything) and Genius Party, the newest from Studio 4C, who have done some of the most exciting animation of the past decade. As an extra treat for anyone into 4C style stuff, the manga artist Robin Nishi (author of the manga MINDGAME was based off of) will be there for a week doing sketches every day. If you like experimental films, art films and/or are tired of the anime industry, but still like good anime, you should check this out.


Hey, thanks for the heads up, I'll definately have to check it out. At the same time though, I can't lie and say I just like "good anime", I just... like what I find to be entertaining, ha ha. For example, I'm a big fan of super robot shows, and I can't exactly defend all of the ones I like as being especially good, ha ha. But that still doesn't stop me from resenting these "young whippersnappers", much the same way I resent people who can't appreciate the good qualities in many older games. I knew a guy who pretty much refused to watch anything I tried to show him in terms of anime because it was "old", and therefore was "bad." I really couldn't follow his "logic" at all, it was just beyond me.





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"Re(4):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 5 Feb 03:01:post reply

quote:
Hey, thanks for the heads up, I'll definately have to check it out. At the same time though, I can't lie and say I just like "good anime", I just... like what I find to be entertaining, ha ha. For example, I'm a big fan of super robot shows, and I can't exactly defend all of the ones I like as being especially good, ha ha. But that still doesn't stop me from resenting these "young whippersnappers", much the same way I resent people who can't appreciate the good qualities in many older games. I knew a guy who pretty much refused to watch anything I tried to show him in terms of anime because it was "old", and therefore was "bad." I really couldn't follow his "logic" at all, it was just beyond me.


You know why old anime remains good? Simple: story and scriptwritting.

I have no interest in giant robots whatsoever. But then you showed Zeta Gundam once and I realized what made shows like these appealing.

You might also add to your case it was the artstyle they used back then (as you kept on emphasizing in th past), and they had better budgets for regular shows because of the boom.





[this message was edited by sfried on Tue 5 Feb 03:08]

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"Re(3):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 5 Feb 08:13post reply

quote:

Saying these series are low quality because you dislike them is again treating anime as a global genre, and looking for something that is by definition not in widely popular shows. It's like if you were blaming Heroes for not being as well written as Twin Peaks, or saying Stephen King should read more Hemingway.



But Heroes sucks because it's not Twin Peaks! It's a universal fact!

LOL, J/K. I really like Heroes and Twin Peaks so there.

But seriously, I think I know what you mean. Perhaps I am still a little bit elitist, even though I don't watch as much anime these days as I used to. In grad school, we had lengthy discussions about mass media and what was high brow and what was low brow. When I talk about Dragonball or Sailor Moon or Pokemon, I consider it low brow. The masses tend to like low brow so I can understand why they rose in popularity. Then again, lowbrow content is what I feel is killing the anime industry.

But what do I know, right?





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"Re(3):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Tue 5 Feb 12:45post reply

quote:

Furthermore, i've seen lots of students go to school inspired to study animation because they like anime, only to be told it's wrong and American animation is superior. The ones with weaker wills are bullied into believing so and "learn the error of their ways" and renounce Anime.

That may sound like an extreme example, but Ive seen it happen lots of times.



That reminds me of my art teacher in middle school. There was nobody around that ever made me feel as if drawing cartoons was worthless until after I met that person. Didn't help I was surrounded by people who could do stuff like do a pencil replication of the cover of the Predator VHS movie box and the like. I just drew Snoopy.





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sfried
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"Re(3):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Tue 5 Feb 14:18:post reply

quote:
I had a teacher who was an ex Disney guy who just couldn't stand anything "anime". It broke my heart cos I learned alot from him and consider him a mentor. But everytime I tried to show him something good like Memories, or MINDGAME or Ghibli stuff, he'd go out of his way to find reasons to dislike it.

The problem is the backlash from that reaction. You end up with people hating all of Western animation when all the examples they simply cite are a bunch of rubbish American cartoons. It's like they dismissed European animation already.





[this message was edited by sfried on Tue 5 Feb 14:40]

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"Re(4):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 5 Feb 15:28post reply

quote:
When I talk about Dragonball or Sailor Moon or Pokemon, I consider it low brow. The masses tend to like low brow so I can understand why they rose in popularity. Then again, lowbrow content is what I feel is killing the anime industry.

I think we need to make a difference between lowbrow series and low quality series(in term of production, not content).
I think low quality stuff (series with poor direction and art, or whose quality drop abysmally after the first few episodes) are much more dangerous for the industry than lowbrow stuff.

Or maybe I just don't understand lowbrow.





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"Re(5):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 5 Feb 16:32post reply

quote:
When I talk about Dragonball or Sailor Moon or Pokemon, I consider it low brow. The masses tend to like low brow so I can understand why they rose in popularity. Then again, lowbrow content is what I feel is killing the anime industry.
I think we need to make a difference between lowbrow series and low quality series(in term of production, not content).
I think low quality stuff (series with poor direction and art, or whose quality drop abysmally after the first few episodes) are much more dangerous for the industry than lowbrow stuff.

Or maybe I just don't understand lowbrow.



I agree with Iggy about Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon. They were high quality series when they came out, and they still are if they can appeal to current generations. Then again, they're the typical shonen and shojo series, so they're not deep for you now. I used to watch Sailor Moon when I was a kid but I cannot stand it now, but I still like Dragon Ball a lot.

Oh, and regarding production values, Dragon Ball has some episodes where the quality drops to unbelivable low levels. I didn't notice it as a kid, but for example watch the episode of Freezer coming to earth and Trunks appearing for the first time, which was all cool, watch the next episode and everything is fugly!






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nobinobita
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"Re(4):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Tue 5 Feb 17:02post reply

quote:

The problem is the backlash from that reaction. You end up with people hating all of Western animation when all the examples they simply cite are a bunch of rubbish American cartoons. It's like they dismissed European animation already.



I agree, that is a huge problem. It's a vicious cycle. I often find myself unconsciously reacting from that backlash, that's why I think its so important to dwell on the positive not the negative.

Like you've pointed out, America is very inclined towards polarization. It's often the case that to uphold one thing, you have to tear down another. I think the best way to break out of that cycle is to avoid argument and just enjoy things and share the things you like.

On that note, is there any European animation you could recommend to me? I'm familiar with (and love) some of the classic animators like Yuri Norstein (not sure if you'd consider him western) and Paul Grimault. And I really like some of the comics artists from Europe that have an animation background, like for intance Enrique Fernandes, but I have a hard time tracking down any contemporary stuff. Unless you count Totally Spies (which after a few viewings isn't that bad of a show).





nobinobita
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"Re(6):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Tue 5 Feb 17:24post reply

quote:

I agree with Iggy about Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon. They were high quality series when they came out, and they still are if they can appeal to current generations.


Awesome, I'm glad other people remember Dragonball fondly. I never watched Sailor Moon regularly, but from what Ive seen that show is drawn consistently well. I've never seen a single bad drawing in any frame of the show, and though the animation was low frame rate at times, it was always solid and fun to watch.

If you like the drawing style of older anime, you should check out this DVD:

http://www.pelleas.net/aniTOP/index.php?title=yasuo_otsuka_documentary_1&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

http://www.danielthomas.org/pop/film_reviews/otsuka_joy.htm

It's a documentary with english subtitles about Yasuo Otsuka, a very influential Japanese animator. He did key work on all the big Toei films from the 60s and 70s as well as classic TV shows like Lupin and Heidi. He's a huge contributor to the formation of Ghibli and continues to teach and influence animators to this day.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Wed 6 Feb 07:07:post reply

quote:
On that note, is there any European animation you could recommend to me? I'm familiar with (and love) some of the classic animators like Yuri Norstein (not sure if you'd consider him western) and Paul Grimault. And I really like some of the comics artists from Europe that have an animation background, like for intance Enrique Fernandes, but I have a hard time tracking down any contemporary stuff.


I bet you have seen When the Wind Blows.

The Crab Revolution is another good French short.

Kirikou and the Sorceress as also pretty recent.





[this message was edited by sfried on Wed 6 Feb 07:30]

ZamIAm
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"France" , posted Wed 6 Feb 13:46post reply

quote:

Kirikou and the Sorceress as also pretty recent.



I can vouch for Kirikou's quality.

And HA!, someone else admitted to watching Totally Spies (though I haven't seen it in over a year).
Waits for Iggy's reaction.





Toxico
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"Re(6):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Wed 6 Feb 16:18post reply

quote:
I agree with Iggy about Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon.


While, Sailor Moon kept itself more or less in a 'clean' 'steady' level through most of the series, that isn't so with Dragon Ball. It's simple, all of the characters fought exactly the same through most of the Z part; same attacks, same modus operandi, same lazer finishing move, plus, most of the series went with the plot device of "they are aliens, they are strong". The first series had a little more charisma, most characters used "different attacks" and "strategies" during the entire series, wich was much more fast paced and direct. The first series itself was much more well directed to kids, while the second one tried an attempt of "let's do a kid series that grown ups might watch": the only thing the Z series improved was more / clearer transparency effects, and sadly everyone loved it by that.

Plus, speaking of quality, the 80s really scream loudly you are already dead





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IkariDC
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"Re(7):Anime Industry go boom in the US!" , posted Wed 6 Feb 16:20post reply

quote:

I agree with Iggy about Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon. They were high quality series when they came out, and they still are if they can appeal to current generations.

Awesome, I'm glad other people remember Dragonball fondly. I never watched Sailor Moon regularly, but from what Ive seen that show is drawn consistently well. I've never seen a single bad drawing in any frame of the show, and though the animation was low frame rate at times, it was always solid and fun to watch.

If you like the drawing style of older anime, you should check out this DVD:

http://www.pelleas.net/aniTOP/index.php?title=yasuo_otsuka_documentary_1&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

http://www.danielthomas.org/pop/film_reviews/otsuka_joy.htm

It's a documentary with english subtitles about Yasuo Otsuka, a very influential Japanese animator. He did key work on all the big Toei films from the 60s and 70s as well as classic TV shows like Lupin and Heidi. He's a huge contributor to the formation of Ghibli and continues to teach and influence animators to this day.



That's very interesting! I'll look for it the next time I place an order for some music CDs.






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Iggy
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"Re(1):France" , posted Wed 6 Feb 17:42post reply

quote:
And HA!, someone else admitted to watching Totally Spies (though I haven't seen it in over a year).
Waits for Iggy's reaction.


I know someone who worked on that, so I can't really talk about it. Unfortunately.

Yeah, Kirikou was a huge surprise for any France-loathing french people.





Sensenic
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"Re(6):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Wed 6 Feb 22:58post reply

quote:

The Crab Revolution is another good French short.



I really loved that one, thanks for the link.





Like the wind...

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nobinobita
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"Re(6):Re(10):Anime Industry go boom in the US" , posted Mon 18 Feb 15:50post reply

quote:

I bet you have seen When the Wind Blows.

The Crab Revolution is another good French short.

Kirikou and the Sorceress as also pretty recent.



This is a little belated, but thanks for the links! I'd seen the Crab Revolution before, but it didn't have subtitles so I had no idea what was going on. It's much more enjoyable now that I can understand it.

Also, thanks for "When the Wind Blows", I've been looking for that ever since I went through my Pink Floyd phase in high school! It was very touching. I love the subtlety of it, how the people really act and sound like real people.





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"Viva la French Animation" , posted Wed 20 Feb 14:28:post reply

Wow, amidst all this talk of French animation, I totally forgot to mention about Persepolis.





[this message was edited by sfried on Wed 20 Feb 14:30]

Toxico
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"Re(1):Viva la French Animation" , posted Wed 20 Feb 14:39:post reply

quote:
Wow, amidst all this talk of French animation, I totally forgot to mention about Persepolis.



I'm surprised that no one has mentioned "Martin Mystery", it had some really fun episodes, also; this was great most of the time.





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[this message was edited by Toxico on Wed 20 Feb 14:42]

nobinobita
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"Re(2):Viva la French Animation" , posted Wed 20 Feb 16:34post reply

quote:
Wow, amidst all this talk of French animation, I totally forgot to mention about Persepolis.


I'm surprised that no one has mentioned "Martin Mystery", it had some really fun episodes, also; this was great most of the time.



There was an episode of Martin Mystery based entirely off of John Carpenter's the thing. They were stuck in an arctic environment where a shapeshifting creature/virus was loose and they had to keep checking each others DNA to see who was still human. It even had a scene with a dog turning inside out into a monster. Very fun!





CHAZumaru
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"Re(3):Viva la French Animation" , posted Thu 21 Feb 06:51post reply

I guess I finally understand how weirded out Japanese people must feel when they read foreigners' discussions about their old animated shows.





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Juan
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"Re(4):Viva la French Animation" , posted Thu 21 Feb 11:27post reply

quote:
I guess I finally understand how weirded out Japanese people must feel when they read foreigners' discussions about their old animated shows.



I used to watch this all the time in Spanish.

I don't remember much other than the cat was a giant asshole and I loved it.





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