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| TreIII
40th Post
 
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|  "Re(6):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Tue 23 Oct 13:42
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Well, this is assuming it's anything like the previous games at all. I don't know if comparing it to Tenka is relevant or not.
Not really comparing. Just saying there better be some lag on moves this time around.
Well, considering it's K2 (or otherwise known as Galapagos Team, the guys who were responsible for the first few games, before they got on their Tenchu track), I would think that, since they're back in the saddle for the series they created, they'll probably do more to direct the game as they think is proper.
Personally, I'm actually interested in this title very much. I haven't really been able to get into the series that much since SS4 (personal fave), and would really like to see if K2 can do something to inject life into the game formula, in a way that I think Yuki failed to do, despite their titles being mostly alright. If it turned out to be a stylish re-telling of the 64 title(s), complete with Shiki and Ashura being in the mix, so much the better.
Oh, and I'm also hoping for a return of the "Shura/Rasetsu" (Slash/Bust) system; preferably as it was done in SS64-2. I'd rather for the roster to be shortened, and for characters to be restored to the S/R split dynamic, as opposed to filling up the roster with clones like Rera, Rasetsumaru, Enja and Suija. I mean, why would I want any of those losers, when I could have Enja-Kazuki, a la SS64-2/SS2!, who was much more awesome than Enja could ever hope to be any way?
Dokuganryu wa Date jya ne you see?
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| NARUTO 3590th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
     
   
| "Re(7):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Tue 23 Oct 15:56
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Oh, and I'm also hoping for a return of the "Shura/Rasetsu" (Slash/Bust) system; preferably as it was done in SS64-2. I'd rather for the roster to be shortened, and for characters to be restored to the S/R split dynamic, as opposed to filling up the roster with clones like Rera, Rasetsumaru, Enja and Suija. I mean, why would I want any of those losers, when I could have Enja-Kazuki, a la SS64-2/SS2!, who was much more awesome than Enja could ever hope to be any way?
I'm with you on this one...
Fortes fortuna juvat...
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| Ishmael 2974th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Tue 23 Oct 23:58
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Oh, and I'm also hoping for a return of the "Shura/Rasetsu" (Slash/Bust) system; preferably as it was done in SS64-2. I'd rather for the roster to be shortened, and for characters to be restored to the S/R split dynamic, as opposed to filling up the roster with clones like Rera, Rasetsumaru, Enja and Suija. I mean, why would I want any of those losers, when I could have Enja-Kazuki, a la SS64-2/SS2!, who was much more awesome than Enja could ever hope to be any way?
Personally I was never a fan of having that all encompasing Slash/Bust system. With the returning cast I felt that some of the characters were given alt. versions not because the programmers had new and wonderful ideas for how they should play but because they were obligated to create the variations due to the game design. The new characters fared even more poorly. One of the things that defines a character for me is their moves. Because the new characters were introduced with two versions I never really felt like I knew what the "true" version of the character was. It sounds silly to complain that a diffused moves list made it hard for me to warm up to some characters but personal preference is rarely logical. It's funny, I don't mind EX versions of characters or some lame plot twist to explain an evil twin but having the system standardized is not something I am interested in.
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| Toxico 4304th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(8):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Wed 24 Oct 01:23
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Because the new characters were introduced with two versions I never really felt like I knew what the "true" version of the character was.
The main problem with the shura/rasetsu thing was that; to put it simple, the two modes where fairly different in strategies and such; the usefulness of the modes was fairly different; so, the more "seriously" you played the game, the more evident that it became that one mode, was useless next to the other.
Also, we have the problem that some modes where almost identical to each other except for three, two; and in some cases, even one move; wich easily made you think that instead of wasting energy on changing very little for a character, they should rather instead focus in giving the "base character" more variety; and a four color pallete swap; and, if the difference of modes was too huge, then create an alternative character..... and that's exactly what they did.
The only evil of the word is the one in the hearth of mens
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| TreIII
42th Post
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| "Re(9):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Wed 24 Oct 02:30
But you see, what you both describe would probably be quite valid arguments, if we were talking about the S/R system, circa SS3 and SS4.
However, in the 64 games (moreso 64-2), the two "sides" of the characters were much more than just a palette/model swap with a changed move here and there, they were actually VASTLY different characters, cosmetically and dynamically. And more than likely, such a thing was only made possible in the realm of 3D, because 2D has its limits in that area.
And that, in a nutshell, is what I would like to see happen here. The S/R system tightened the roster up in the way of superfluous characters, while also offering plenty in the way of variety too. And I would assume, with proper testing, we could have it such that things like "Bust Hanzo being an unstoppable ninja of mass destruction" would not be an issue, as was the case with SS64-2.
With SEN taking the series in a new direction, I would hope it would also be the time that they can actually use to clean up the roster and such. I'm expecting that the likes of Iroha and Mina won't be going any where, but I continually question the necessity of characters like Rera and the demons, because they really don't do any thing besides just give an excuse to fill another slot to make the game roster seem bigger.
Dokuganryu wa Date jya ne you see?
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| Iggy 8217th Post
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| "Re(7):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Wed 24 Oct 03:37:
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inject life into the game formula, in a way that I think Yuki failed to do, despite their titles being mostly alright.
Just to clear things up : you like Amakusa Kôrin, and dislike Zero/Sp, amarite?
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I'd rather for the roster to be shortened, and for characters to be restored to the S/R split dynamic, as opposed to filling up the roster with clones like Rera, Rasetsumaru, Enja and Suija.
There, there, you're talking nonsense. Who would want to play with that retarded Sôgetsu and his lame seiyû, while Suijasama is one of the best character ever created? As much as I like I like Kazuki, Enja is cuter. Every game needs a mascot.
As for the others, Rasetsumaru or Yumeji open interesting areas for the scenario, but as you mentioned, the 2D limitations of the system prevents them from being really developed. I think Rasetsumaru had a real potential to become what KOF Yamazaki fails to be, if done properly as a totally different character with the only appearance of Haô◎, not his moves.
But I suppose most of the Yuki characters will disappear anyway, if only Mina (good riddance), Yunfei (he wouldn't transfer well in 3D either) and Gedô (too difficult to modelize properly).
I have hopes for Yoshitora, and I fear Iroha will come back. From an Imoya point of view, a game with Nakoruru, Rimururu, Shiki and Iroha together is the only chance to drag the Arcana players...
I really liked the concept of Iroha, but her execution and her playstyle were... meh.
[this message was edited by Iggy on Wed 24 Oct 03:45] |
| TreIII
43th Post
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| "Re(8):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Wed 24 Oct 22:37
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FYI,
Rera comes from the Nakoruru adventure game that was released on the PC and Dreamcast some time ago. She was accompanied by a wolf, just like she is in the fighters. Despite the fact that she's the new Bust Nako, she's still her own character so to speak.
Yeah, I remember that much. But again, they ended up just using her as a way to dump Nakoruru's Rasetsu moveset onto her, and again, just goes along with what I was talking about.
So, more or less, I'll just say this: if the likes of Rera and Rasetsumaru could be made into more distinctive characters, then sure, whatever. But if they're just going to be used as was the case for the last 2.5 games, then I would rather them to be just taken out.
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And I'm still waiting on a valid reason as to what was so great about Suija and Enja in the 3D games besides their designs. I happen to like Enja/Bust Kazuki from SS4 gameplaywise.
Because they basically played vastly different from the Shura versions of the Ninja bros. Compared to the Rasetsu/Demons from the 2D games, it's "No Contest".
If you really want to learn more though, then just find a means to learn about it for yourself. There are FAQs on the 64 games. I believe Red Falcon talked to me about having videos of the game online at one point or another, maybe you can ask him about that. Or, if you just want more of a hands-on approach, go play SS2! for the NGPC. It basically is a 2D, toned down version of SS64-2, but the overall concepts of the Slash/Bust system apply in that game, right down to how Bust Kazuki and Sogetsu were radically different beasts.
For example, if you thought that SS4-Bust/Enja's little "air combo smash that requires precise timing" was cool, then you would only need to bear witness to his much more complex, DBZ-like air combination, to get an idea of why I'm so adamant about the concept as I am.
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Just to clear things up : you like Amakusa Kôrin, and dislike Zero/Sp, amarite?
You are correct, sir.
Honestly, I just didn't like the Yuki games as much as I hoped I would. In both cases, the "feel" just was not my cup of tea. And this is coming from a guy who accepted the notion that pretty much every game in the series (besides the first two) are vastly different from each other.
Top it off with the fact that I really didn't like a number of the characters that were introduced (besides save, Yoshitora and Gaoh), and that was more or less the reason why I wasn't enthused with the Yuki games. Which I think is sad, as SS is basically among the first fighting games that I fell in love with, and I would like to continue supporting it. Thus, why I'm hoping that SEN will turn out for the best.
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From an Imoya point of view, a game with Nakoruru, Rimururu, Shiki and Iroha together is the only chance to drag the Arcana players...
Is he STILL in charge of this outfit?
I would hope not. Trying to compete with AH should be the last thing that they're worried about, compared to more pressing matters, like, y'know, actually making sure the game is GOOD.
Dokuganryu wa Date jya ne you see?
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| YeldellGW 541th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(9):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Thu 25 Oct 06:16
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Yeah, I remember that much. But again, they ended up just using her as a way to dump Nakoruru's Rasetsu moveset onto her, and again, just goes along with what I was talking about.
So, more or less, I'll just say this: if the likes of Rera and Rasetsumaru could be made into more distinctive characters, then sure, whatever. But if they're just going to be used as was the case for the last 2.5 games, then I would rather them to be just taken out.
I fail to see the point of that arguement. Capcom's done the same thing for years with SF. From Ryu we got Ken, Akuma, Sean and all those other guys with similar movelists. By that logic, Galford should've been dropped long ago since he's just a slightly different Hanzo.
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For example, if you thought that SS4-Bust/Enja's little "air combo smash that requires precise timing" was cool, then you would only need to bear witness to his much more complex, DBZ-like air combination, to get an idea of why I'm so adamant about the concept as I am.
If that's what I'm missing, then from my POV I'm not missing much. Don't care for anything that's an overblown juggle, which is what that's sounding like.
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| Red Falcon 5974th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Thu 25 Oct 07:20:
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I fail to see the point of that arguement. Capcom's done the same thing for years with SF. From Ryu we got Ken, Akuma, Sean and all those other guys with similar movelists. By that logic, Galford should've been dropped long ago since he's just a slightly different Hanzo.
Naaah, Galford is PRETTY different than Hanzo in pretty much every SS with maybe the exception of just plain ol' Samurai Spirits... From Shin onwards they diverged more and more. On a similar note, I don't think comparing Gouki and Ken in, say, ST or 3S is really appropriate. Although there are similarities, one is a LOT better than the other in both cases (although they swap positions, ha ha ha.. uh oh, that sounds lewd!) and you can't use the same tactics with both charas with equal effectiveness. Just like Galford is generally kind of crappy and Hanzo is generally not particularly crappy.
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If that's what I'm missing, then from my POV I'm not missing much. Don't care for anything that's an overblown juggle, which is what that's sounding like.
No, it's just a really complicated super that launches you in to the air and ends with... a big watery burst thing, I don't know how to explain it. I forget the input for the super exactly, I haven't dug out Asura Zanmaden in a while, but it was something like.. QCF + BC, QCF, A, QCF B, QCF C, QCF C, QCF B, QCF A, ABCD... or something along those lines. Just like Kazuki/Enja's... rokudorekka or whatever its name was, just much longer and more difficult to complete properly, as the timing on it is really strict.
ANYWAY, I'm pulling for the return of Yuga as a boss (not going to happen) Tetsuban or Karakuri Hanma as playable charas (also not going to happen) Gaira as a chara (not going to happen) or Zankuro as a normal playable chara like in Tenka (this isn't going to happen either...) Wait, why am I hopeful about this game again?
 Best site EVER:Link Here
[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Thu 25 Oct 07:27] |
| TreIII
44th Post
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| "Re(2):Re(10):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Thu 25 Oct 12:45
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I forget the input for the super exactly, I haven't dug out Asura Zanmaden in a while...
And THAT, was something that I was hoping you'd change months ago! You gotta bring that back out again... ^_^
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ANYWAY, I'm pulling for the return of Yuga as a boss (not going to happen) Tetsuban or Karakuri Hanma as playable charas (also not going to happen) Gaira as a chara (not going to happen) or Zankuro as a normal playable chara like in Tenka (this isn't going to happen either...) Wait, why am I hopeful about this game again?
Because there's always a possibility. Like I said before, K2/former Team Galapagos is in charge again, for like the first time in close to a decade.
If there's any body that I would trust with SS taking possibly a different direction altogether (well, some what different, if it doesn't just dredge up the 64 games verbatim), then it would be K2.
I can't say it enough...we need more of the Shiki/Asura storyline. Re-telling, or sequel that ret-cons PSX WR out of existence...I don't care.
Dokuganryu wa Date jya ne you see?
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| TreIII
45th Post
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| "Re(3):Re(10):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Fri 26 Oct 13:19
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Also, we can hope for a pretty interesting roster with their general dislike of moe character. I think this will be the only fighting game in years to have new characters that aren't magical lolicrap or a beautiful and ambiguous 15-year-old boy who has somehow become one of the most powerful warriors in the world on a quest to both save the world and somehow redeem himself from a past he doesn't remember.
The question is : will Imoya let them do what they want to do ?
I think it probably boils down more to the question of "Who needs who more?", and possibly "Who holds the upper hand?"
K2 LLC may not be exactly rolling in the dough, but they DO have their own, fairly regular series to attend to, through Tenchu. Therefore, I don't think K2 was exactly knocking down the doors of SNK's offices, begging and pleading for the chance to work on a Samurai Spirits game. More than likely, SNK extended the invitation to them because they needed K2, especially with the fact that Yuki flew the coop years ago, and has no more need to do business with SNK.
With that said, I think it would be safer to believe that possibly a few compromises would have to be made, but K2 would have to have the power to run the show as they see fit, or else they'd probably just as easily call any deal off.
So, in the end, we can only wait and see. But, considering that I think it's SNK who's more in need of K2, as opposed to the other way around, I would think it would be more of a thing that K2 gets to have more of a say of how they want to do their game. And seeing how there is a rather tell-tale spatter of blood in the logo of SEN itself, it may be a sign...
Dokuganryu wa Date jya ne you see?
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"Re(2):Re(10):The Samurai Spirits Sen thread" , posted Wed 24 Oct 04:56
