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Iggy
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"The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sat 1 Sep 17:33post reply

The game deserves its own thread :

New (very powerful) EXT mode and a new Edit mode.
Balance tweaks
Kasumi, Eiji, Boss Team
Plus at least Bs Iori/Leona, Orochi, Goenitz.
Maybe 4 more ? The video is blurry.
(if you haven't seen it : http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm962418 )
Lots of new ura characters

Notes :
(Ura ?) Mai's Chhissatsu shinobibachi goes up (can be used as an anti air)
Ry can close C=>Rykranbu
EXT Terry can Charge=>activation=>Geyzer
Geese appear to be his RB self (with the cool effects on the Raging Storm. GJ !)
His Deadly Rave is automatic, and his down throw uses RB2's thunder effect (GJ !)
Takuma's Ha shkken is a now a super m(aybe Ura Takuma ?)
Kasumi can kasaneate in midair
Ura Yuri's Saiba can reflect projectiles
Each character has 8 colours, plus 2 variations for you colour edit (including effects)
Several new original backgrounds (which are NOT UGLY)
Geese kicks ass.






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Iron D
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"Re(1):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sat 1 Sep 17:44post reply

Can the presence of the almight Boss team balance out the pain of the USA Sports team?





Er.....

Iggy
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"Re(2):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sat 1 Sep 18:09post reply

quote:
Can the presence of the almight Boss team balance out the pain of the USA Sports team?



Odds are the Sports Team has been beefed up. There was a list of the changes made to Heavy D!, but I can't find it...
But then, D! was probably the best of the 3 to begin with.





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"Re(3):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sat 1 Sep 18:12post reply

quote:
Can the presence of the almight Boss team balance out the pain of the USA Sports team?


Odds are the Sports Team has been beefed up. There was a list of the changes made to Heavy D!, but I can't find it...
But then, D! was probably the best of the 3 to begin with.

based on a previous video i saw, heavy d's "shadow" move is now a super





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"Re(4):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 2 Sep 09:18post reply

quote:
Can the presence of the almight Boss team balance out the pain of the USA Sports team?


Odds are the Sports Team has been beefed up. There was a list of the changes made to Heavy D!, but I can't find it...
But then, D! was probably the best of the 3 to begin with.
based on a previous video i saw, heavy d's "shadow" move is now a super



I think I've been misunderstood here. When I said "balance out" I meant the coolness of the boss team balancing out the utter lameness of the USA Sports team.





Er.....

D`Cloud
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"Re(5):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 2 Sep 11:05post reply

quote:
Can the presence of the almight Boss team balance out the pain of the USA Sports team?


Odds are the Sports Team has been beefed up. There was a list of the changes made to Heavy D!, but I can't find it...
But then, D! was probably the best of the 3 to begin with.
based on a previous video i saw, heavy d's "shadow" move is now a super


I think I've been misunderstood here. When I said "balance out" I meant the coolness of the boss team balancing out the utter lameness of the USA Sports team.

No. Sports team rules.





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Gojira
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"Re(5):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 2 Sep 11:08post reply

quote:
Can the presence of the almight Boss team balance out the pain of the USA Sports team?


Odds are the Sports Team has been beefed up. There was a list of the changes made to Heavy D!, but I can't find it...
But then, D! was probably the best of the 3 to begin with.
based on a previous video i saw, heavy d's "shadow" move is now a super


I think I've been misunderstood here. When I said "balance out" I meant the coolness of the boss team balancing out the utter lameness of the USA Sports team.



And yet they are a vast improvement over America's current image abroad.





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"Re(1):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 2 Sep 19:14:post reply

quote:

His Deadly Rave is automatic, and his down throw uses RB2's thunder effect (GJ !)

So it means he has his pursuit move. I don't remember him having that in '96, therefore that could be EX Geese based on RB2 Geese. If they include both 96 Geese and RB2 Geese, I'll definitely pick up the game. It would be indeed interesting if pretty much all characters had EX variations this time.

Speaking of which, I forgot how EX characters based on RB2 (such as EX Terry) behaved in the original KOF'98. Did they have their fake moves and fake supers (usually and )? If so, did these fakes allow cancels like in RB2?


quote:
Geese kicks ass.


Well, this goes without saying, but I am rather surprised by the positivity emanating from your post (both because I thought 98UM would be disappointing, and because I thought you wanted to dislike the game very much).





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Sun 2 Sep 19:15]

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"Re(2):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 2 Sep 20:02post reply

I HUNGER FOR THIS GAME LIKE A PINK SUIT AND A CIGARETTE!





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"Re(2):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 2 Sep 20:33:post reply

quote:
If they include both 96 Geese and RB2 Geese, I'll definitely pick up the game. It would be indeed interesting if pretty much all characters had EX variations this time.
They said there would be several new ura characters.
I think the 4 silhouettes appearing after the two Bs in the video might be them (in which case there would be not a lot of "several"). Even if they are but 4, I bet Takuma and Geese at least will have ura. I would love to have ura Chin, but phat chance.

quote:
Speaking of which, I forgot how EX characters based on RB2 (such as EX Terry) behaved in the original KOF'98. Did they have their fake moves and fake supers (usually and )? If so, did these fakes allow cancels like in RB2?

They didn't have those. I thought they were based on RB1 ?


quote:
Geese kicks ass.
Well, this goes without saying

You actually liked KOF 96 Geese ? Or SvC Geese ?
Also, they finally gave the Raging Storm the RB1 effects back.

quote:
but I am rather surprised by the positivity emanating from your post (both because I thought 98UM would be disappointing

I think Hakase did a really good job on the port of XI, and what he's been doing so far (a fan taking over his favourite series) is what I hoped Falcoon would do before everything went horribly wrong .
Even the fight between Hakase and Imoya to release the game in the arcades is amusing.
quote:
I thought you wanted to dislike the game very much).

Oh, no no no. I still love 98, and everything that has been added so far sounds great (AND they didn't add any stupid anime opening or crappy HD filter). Plus Geese, Kasumi or Eiji should have been in the game. It's not a remake, it's a kanzenban.

And also, how long has it been since Krauzer was in a game ? 12 years ?





[this message was edited by Iggy on Sun 2 Sep 20:35]

chazumaru
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"Re(3):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 2 Sep 21:48:post reply

quote:
They didn't have those. I thought they were based on RB1 ?


Ah, possibly. I remembered that EX Terry had typical RB2 stuff, but I might be wrong. It's been a long time since I haven't played KOF'98 and I probably didn't know RB2 that well at the time either...

However RB2 pre-dates KOF'98 by a few months and SNK's teams have always been very reactive about gameplay changes for characters (ex. a lot of stuff from Ryuuko Gaiden appeared in KOF'96). Also, since the mere concept of "EX versions" first appeared in RBS, I would at least expect the variations (for Garou characters) to be taken from RBS.

quote:
You actually liked KOF 96 Geese ? Or SvC Geese ?

No, I didn't.
(OK now I see your point: "guest appearances of Geese in the KOF engine have often been disappointing, there was no reason to be optimistic." True.)

The reason I am hoping for two versions of Geese is that I do not trust SNKP. Therefore, I am concerned they might start from 96 Geese (or more likely NGBC Geese) as a basis, and add stuff from there that will result in a weird mish-mash. I would prefer that they keep all the good stuff (the "real" Raising Storm, the ↓+C pursuit move i.e. everything that comes from the RB series) in an separate version.

Furthermore, I do not care much about KOF anymore but since KOF'98 is still regarded (as far as I know) as the epitome of the series and since this remake is a testament to these old fans before SNK switches to full-time softporn digico for DS and cellphones, I think it would be fair for true KOF fans who actually prefered KOF版 Geese that they get to play with "their" retardedversion of the character.



quote:
Also, they finally gave the Raging Storm the RB1 effects back.


"Raising". As it raises from the ground. The new graphics are cool. Indeed, it's back to the RB1 "surrounding" version, but it seems to cover more ground as well...


quote:
I think Hakase did a really good job on the port of XI, and what he's been doing so far (a fan taking over his favourite series) is what I hoped Falcoon would do before everything went horribly wrong .

I see. It's true that I heard very good things of the PS2 versions of KOF 2003 and XI (I guess he did 2003 as well?).
Then it's nice to hear that SNKP found the right guy for this job.

Now what bothers me is that all this positive talk about the recent PS2 versions is bringing legitimacy to the PS2 versions/compilations of Neo games in general, which is something I had not planned to interfer with my oh-so-tight budget.

quote:
Oh, no no no. I still love 98, and everything that has been added so far sounds great (AND they didn't add any stupid anime opening or crappy HD filter). Plus Geese, Kasumi or Eiji should have been in the game. It's not a remake, it's a kanzenban.


Well, judging from the niconico video, it seems you can watch the anime intro of the Dreamcast version in the gallery mode. But I see your point. I am sure there will be an optional filter, juste like you can choose between 2D and 3D versions of the backgrounds. As long as it's optional, no hurt is done.

quote:
And also, how long has it been since Krauzer was in a game ? 12 years ?

I know you're being tongue-in-cheek but, for those who really wondered, I think his last playable appearance was Garou Densetsu 1st Contact on NGPC.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Sun 2 Sep 21:52]

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"Re(4):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 2 Sep 22:51post reply

quote:
I probably didn't know RB2 that well at the time either...
I STILL don't know RB2 that well either.
And I'm ashamed. So very very ashamed.
Also, I never really liked the Gar/Ryk characters in KOF (well, mostly the way they were treated when compared to their original series) to begin with. Beside Joe in 02, I think.

quote:
(OK now I see your point: "guest appearances of Geese in the KOF engine have often been disappointing, there was no reason to be optimistic.

You are the best online Iggy/human dictionary I ever saw.

quote:
The reason I am hoping for two versions of Geese is that I do not trust SNKP. Therefore, I am concerned they might start from 96 Geese (or more likely NGBC Geese) as a basis, and add stuff from there that will result in a weird mish-mash.

I think no one like 96 Geese... But they need to have two versions of him, one with normal Reppken and the other with short ones.
If they could have one version with his kimono on and the other without, it would be perfect, but they don't have any reason to do that.

quote:
since KOF'98 is still regarded (as far as I know) as the epitome of the series and since this remake is a testament to these old fans

Exactly. I saw several fans saying "KOF 98 was the game that took me into fighting games, and this game will be the last one I'll play".

quote:
before SNK switches to full-time softporn digico for DS and cellphones

Calm down, calm down, they actually have another KOF game to release before that.


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
KOF 02 UM, of course

End of Spoiler



quote:
"Raising". As it raises from the ground.

Oh. Aaaaaah ! Ooho.
Wait !
That make sense !

quote:
I see. It's true that I heard very good things of the PS2 versions of KOF 2003 and XI (I guess he did 2003 as well?).

I haven't heard anything on the 2003 port, but I would rather have never heard anything about KOF 2003 at all, so maybe I'm not the best judge here.

quote:
Now what bothers me is that all this positive talk about the recent PS2 versions is bringing legitimacy to the PS2 versions/compilations of Neo games in general

I don't see why ? On one hand you have a faithful complete edition, on the other you have a bunch of roms, an emulator and a nice original illustration on the cover.

quote:
But I see your point.

Let's get married!

quote:
I am sure there will be an optional filter, juste like you can choose between 2D and 3D versions of the backgrounds.

I don't think so. The filter required actually some kind of work, and nobody liked it, so I think they'd rather think it never happened.

quote:
I know you're being tongue-in-cheek but, for those who really wondered, I think his last playable appearance was Garou Densetsu 1st Contact on NGPC.

Touch !
(puffs of smoke)





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"Re(1):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 3 Sep 00:08post reply

quote:
The game deserves its own thread :

New (very powerful) EXT mode and a new Edit mode.
Balance tweaks
Kasumi, Eiji, Boss Team
Plus at least Bs Iori/Leona, Orochi, Goenitz.
Maybe 4 more ? The video is blurry.
(if you haven't seen it : http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm962418 )
Lots of new ura characters



I couldn't see the video... are Kasumi and Eiji shown in it, or it's just someone confirming they're in??





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"Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 00:16post reply

quote:

I couldn't see the video... are Kasumi and Eiji shown in it, or it's just someone confirming they're in??



They're shown for about one second each, and you need good eyes.





IT'S THE BLACK PUDDING!

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"Re(5):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 3 Sep 01:59post reply

quote:

I think no one like 96 Geese... But they need to have two versions of him, one with normal Reppken and the other with short ones.



*waves hand* I like 96 Geese even though I also like using RB Geese, too. I do find a lot that it's a bit similar to playing as Kasumi, but whatever.





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"Re(1):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 03:00post reply

quote:

I couldn't see the video... are Kasumi and Eiji shown in it, or it's just someone confirming they're in??


They're shown for about one second each, and you need good eyes.



Wow, that's great! So we'll finally be able to recreate the '95 Yagami Team (Iori - Eiji - Billy). Or putting Eiji in the same team than Billy and Yamazaki (after all, his presence qith them makes more sense than Blue Mary's).

And Kasumi is a favorite of mine, as well! Now we just need Goenitz and Orochi (and maybe Orochi Iori and Orochi Leona) to complete the roster.





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"Re(2):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 04:08post reply

quote:
Now we just need Goenitz and Orochi (and maybe Orochi Iori and Orochi Leona) to complete the roster.



Iggy mentioned them in the first post, but I haven't seen the video (I'm not registering there just for this one video...).
I'd find it odd if the Riot characters were in, considering how they were loathed as overpower with the added bonus of getting teammates when playable... still, I liked Orochi Leona's animations and voice quite a bit and it'd be cool to see her return.

Goenitz and Orochi himself (hopefully toned down to playable Mizuchi levels) I can imagine being abused to some extent... then again, Orochi Shermie had the energy-thingy-appearing-at different-distances skill and it didn't break the game... hers wasn't screen-high though...

Other than Geese and Takuma (SvC new skill set might be interesting if toned down) do any other possibilities for Ura characters have been pointed out?
Mr. Big is yet to get a full-screen projectile outside AoF... maybe Kim's been through enough changes over the years (and moves inspired by his offspring, like the kick he got in MI2) to get a tweaked version too? Also IIRC Krauser had Geese-like counter moves in the RBs and he didn't use to be able to charge his Kaiser Wave a la Rugal. Oh, yeah, and King's got 2 kinds of Tornado Kick and Surprise Rose, alternate methods to use the Double Strike...

Eh.. now that I think about it, everyone who made it to CvS1 and is in this game might get the Ura treatment as an analogue the the EX version in that game...





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"Re(3):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 3 Sep 04:46post reply

quote:
Odds are the Sports Team has been beefed up. There was a list of the changes made to Heavy D!, but I can't find it...
But then, D! was probably the best of the 3 to begin with.



What the hell more could they do with Lucky?! Give him more basketball moves and even less emphasis on actually fighting his opponent!

quote:

I think no one like 96 Geese... But they need to have two versions of him, one with normal Reppken and the other with short ones.


*waves hand* I like 96 Geese even though I also like using RB Geese, too. I do find a lot that it's a bit similar to playing as Kasumi, but whatever.



I didn't mind 96 Geese either. Aside from his infinity he didn't come off as broken as hell or a total cheeseball like most of his other versions.

quote:
Mr. Big is yet to get a full-screen projectile outside AoF...



God no! I liked how KOF 96 de-emphasised long range fighting with projectiles personally.

quote:

Eh.. now that I think about it, everyone who made it to CvS1 and is in this game might get the Ura treatment as an analogue the the EX version in that game...



I'm going to go on record and say I never liked the idea of having multiple versions of playable characters.





chazumaru
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"Re(3):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 05:00:post reply

quote:

Other than Geese and Takuma (SvC new skill set might be interesting if toned down) do any other possibilities for Ura characters have been pointed out?


Nothing that clear has been mentioned in the video. We only know there will be more alternate versions than in the original game. Most of the characters' new moves mentioned by Iggy are shown in action in the video. Therefore if you know the game (or at least the character), it is quite easy to notice when something is different. From the video alone, it is impossible to identify whether each new move shown has been added to the original KOF'98 character or comes from a possible new alternate version.

Let me clarify that it has never been alluded in the video Geese had an alternate version. One of the black silhouettes quickly shown (right after the easily identifiable silhouettes of Orochi Leona and Orochi Iori) might be Geese, but when we discussed a possible alternate Geese with Iggy earlier on this topic, it was just my wishful thinking that they don't mix up a single version with different influences.

Concretely, there is little chance they include an alternate version of the Boss team ; I think the alternate versions will come from characters that were already in 98 to begin with. The only credible alternate version for a boss would be Geese because he had so many avatars that there is a lot of material available to create different versions of the character (hell, they could even steal from Young Geese if they wanted).

Mr.Big and Krauser however, have been in very few games. And usually these newer versions only added to the character in order to "modernize" his movelist. If you include NGBC Big, it doesn't really make sense to include 96 Big as well, because the old version has little to no advantage on the recent version (unless you simply make the older version dash out more damage). Same thing with Krauser: he doesn't have enough material available. The RBS/RB2 version includes the counter moves and the charge move you mentioned, but what does it take away? RBS Krauser is not as much an alternative to '96 Krauser (who is based on Garou Spe) as it is a much richer version of the same character.

On the other hand, Kim and Takuma are very good candidates as you mentioned, because they have so many different versions even without leaving KOF (I wouldn't be surprised if EX Takuma happened to be the KOF'02 version of Takuma).





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Mon 3 Sep 05:02]

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"Re(4):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 07:13post reply

quote:
I didn't mind 96 Geese either. Aside from his infinity he didn't come off as broken as hell or a total cheeseball like most of his other versions.

Sure, but he wasn't the badass character Geese ought to be presented as.
quote:
I'm going to go on record and say I never liked the idea of having multiple versions of playable characters.


It depends on how it's done. CvS1 was retarded, but the 98 thing is good, in my opinion. I know my favourite versions of Chin are his 98 and 02 versions, and they are totally different, both awesome and can't be mixed in one skillist. Same with Kyo 95/98, I guess.
It's like the Shura/Rasetsu characters in SS : some separations were stupid and fused back in one character in Zero (Rimururu or Charlotte) other were interesting because they created completely different types of play, and got separated (Kazuki-Enja, or the obvious Nakoruru-Rera).

quote:
then again, Orochi Shermie had the energy-thingy-appearing-at different-distances skill and it didn't break the game... hers wasn't screen-high though...

Goenitz in SvC was fine (even thought because of Geese and Zero, it's hard to say whether he was balanced or not). His two problems was that he was a n00b killer (but then, what new player is going to play a new version of KOF 98 ?) and that he was shallow. You didn't have lots of things to do with him. But he was Goenitz, so the simple idea of playing as him was awesome.
Oh, also, they added the 02 guardcancel-roll to the game, so he shouldn't be that much of a trouble.
Now I think of it, Goenitz and Eiji in this game might be annoying for Mature. They have most of her moves... Oh well.
quote:
Nothing that clear has been mentioned in the video. We only know there will be more alternate versions than in the original game. Most of the characters' new moves mentioned by Iggy are shown in action in the video.

I think during the show from last year, they mentioned both the normal and ura characters have been changed (I think one version of Terry that didn't have the Buster Wolf now has it, and the other one got... another move ? I don't remember exactly, I loathe Terry). I hope Ura Joe will be... well... at least not the worst character of the game.

quote:
From the video alone, it is impossible to identify whether each new move shown has been added to the original KOF'98 character or comes from a possible new alternate version.

Beside Yuri's Saiba, since only the Ura version had it (or they could give it to the normal version, but that would be retarded).

quote:
If you include NGBC Big, it doesn't really make sense to include 96 Big as well, because the old version has little to no advantage on the recent version (unless you simply make the older version dash out more damage).

Ura BIG will be the same, except he won't be able to jump !
quote:
Same thing with Krauser: he doesn't have enough material available. The RBS/RB2 version includes the counter moves and the charge move you mentioned, but what does it take away? RBS Krauser is not as much an alternative to '96 Krauser (who is based on Garou Spe) as it is a much richer version of the same character.

Now I think of it, in last year's show, Krauzer was not the boring character he was in 96. He had several old-new of moves (not the counters, I think ?), and was really rethought from a global Gar Densetsu perspective, using only the 96 sprite as a base.

quote:
On the other hand, Kim and Takuma are very good candidates as you mentioned, because they have so many different versions even without leaving KOF (I wouldn't be surprised if EX Takuma happened to be the KOF'02 version of Takuma).


I think it's safe to bet on 6 ura characters : Iori and Leona being the bs versions, and the 4 silhouettes in the video. They hinted about much more, but that is the minimum we know we will get.
Likely candidates would be... Kim, Takuma, Geese, Clark... Has Ralf changed as much as Clark over the years? Chin could be added just for me. Maybe Kensou without his powers ? It would be tied to the post 98 storyline, so maybe not... Mary of course... I think Ura Mature and Vice might be a stretch, but a version with their 96 stances and fewer but better moves (not to the extend of 96 Mature, but in this spirit) could be done, after all, they are popular characters...
Too many !





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"Re(5):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 07:23post reply

I just watched the video again (they added the 96 boss team stage, at least in 3D and maybe 2D as well, that's awesome) and...

When they show the silhouettes, you have : someone who should be Orochi, obviously Goenitz and the two bs, then the 4 characters I thought were Ura versions.
But then look closely to the 2nd character's head. Look at her head, her hair, her head shapped like the prince in Katamari Damashii.
Could she be XIAN FEI !? And in this case, could the rest of them be characters like Duck King or Lee Pailong or other characters from Nejibako ?





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"Re(6):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 07:54post reply

quote:
... XIAN FEI !? And in this case, could the rest of them be characters like Duck King or Lee Pailong or other characters from Nejibako ?



Don't get my hopes up! Now I'll be dissapointed if they DON'T do it :(





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"Re(7):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 07:58post reply

quote:
Don't get my hopes up! Now I'll be dissapointed if they DON'T do it :(


Yeah, you're right, it could be... a strange drawing of Ura Athena with one of her short haircuts from the NESTS games.
BY NONA.





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"Re(7):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 08:38post reply

is there a link for the vid?





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"Re(8):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 10:13post reply

quote:
is there a link for the vid?



It's on the start of the thread... those who can read have seen it.

About the afomented faint moves.
1.- 98 Ura versions of realbout characters didn't have any feints.
2.- Iggy implied that feints where "new" to RB2 (he said something in the line of "they are rbs characters, that's why they don't have feints"); on fatal fury; the feints where present since garou 3; as a fun fact; in garou 3 almost every move had a feint (not 2 or 3 moves like in the rb series); plus, they where performed similary to the normal move; (por example, fireball with b+d will produce the feint of the fireball +c move, that applied to the desperation moves as well).





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"Re(9):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 13:14post reply

Hmmm...looking good...

I'll definitely be all over this when it releases.





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"Re(9):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 14:11:post reply

quote:
in garou 3 almost every move had a feint (not 2 or 3 moves like in the rb series); plus, they where performed similary to the normal move; (por example, fireball with b+d will produce the feint of the fireball +c move, that applied to the desperation moves as well).



True, however feints in Garou 3 were quite retarded on practice (too tough to input for their utility, sometimes buggy like Andy non-screaming fake super that gave it away, etc.). But you're right, all RBs had the fake anyway, so the non-implementation of fakes was definitely a choice from the designers.


quote:
XIAN FEI !?


Hmmm it would be nice but I am not convinced. I mean, we could even go wild and say the second one from the right looks like a hat-wearing character, and by that you know I mean <spoilerz>PLAYABLE SMART CHOI OH MON DIEU!!!!</spoilerz>. But to be honest I really can't figure out who these people are supposed to be.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Mon 3 Sep 22:33]

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"Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 16:51post reply

quote:
True, however feints in Garou 3 were quite retarded on practice (too tough to input for their utliy, sometimes buggy like Andy non-screaming fake super that gave it away, etc.).

By the way, were those feints any useful ?
Hamaru had a projectile feint, and I never understood the usefulness of it. Maybe it was too fast, or SS was too slow...





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"Re(2):Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 22:12:post reply

quote:

By the way, were those feints any useful ?


In short, yes.

Garou 3 was trying too hard to become at the same time the richest 2D fighting game ever and a(n im)possible alternative to what 3D fighting games were bringing to the genre. Therefore it included tons of crazy shit, such as these fake moves (and these "tons of crazy shit" are what makes Garou 3 simultaneously fascinating, dumb like a dick, very interesting to study, tiresome, underestimated and completely boring to play). I am far from being an expert of Garou 3, but most people agree that the fake moves were only really useful for a few characters.

RB and its sequels streamlined this very cleverly. First, you can only fake one move and the S-power attack (a few characters actually fake their P-power instead of their S-power). To take Geese's case as an example, that means you can only fake the Reppuken and the Raising Storm. To compensate, they made the faints very easy to pull out at anytime and harder to distinguish immediately from the real move than in Garou 3.

Being able to fake S-power moves is expecially important in the Real Bout series because you need to remember that when one player loses his first life gauge, he gains unlimited access to S-power moves. So if we follow the case of Geese once again, it means a Geese player in difficulty can suddenly pull out a real Raising Storm or fake one anytime, which becomes an essential aspect of Geese's strategy.

For example, a Kim player (like our Tristan from Boulette) will have no trouble connecting his insanely fast H-kyaku between the beginning of a Raising Storm animation and the apparition of the energy wave, which would normally strongly penalize Geese because he would then lose most of his mind game. However if Kim launches his H-kyaku on a fake Raising Storm, the Geese player will have the time to guard (lame!) or to pull out a jdan ateminage and counter the H-kyaku (awesome!).

But wait! It happens that Kim's own fake super is a fake H-kyaku. Therefore - and you probably see where I am going - a good Kim player can fake that he got fooled by a fake Raising Storm and then punish Geese while he is doing a useless jdan ateminage (awesome). Unless Geese knew that and launched a Reppuken instead of his counter... Unless it was a fake Reppuken! Add the temporary plane shifting aspect to all this, and two RB2 players who know each other very well can sometimes spend five good seconds without any contact between their two characters. And these five seconds are usually five super tense seconds of pure mind gaming awesomeness.

And I did not even bring up the most useful characteristic yet, which was either introduced in RBS or RB2 (I need to double-check... Anyway, it is for sure in RB2). You can chain fake moves into your combos. In that case, they act like "fake cancels" allowing to interrupt the normal combo with a completely different move, which opens up quite a lot of possibilities. Great example here. Check out the fake Raising Storms at 00:04, 00:09 and 00:10.

So in less short, fuckyes.


[edit] Another nice example of clever fakes: Geese vs. Lawrence.





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[this message was edited by chazumaru on Tue 4 Sep 03:48]

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"Re(3):Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 22:40post reply

quote:
Check out the fake Raising Storms at 00:04, 00:09 and 00:10.

Woh.
Wooooooh.
OK.

But then, these fake moves can also be used in combo like a dokocan/roman cancel, if I get it right ?
Since the new activation of KOF 98UM seems to have the same properties (which may be risky for the game) I guess you could pull out such a combo... Except you can only activate one gauge, and the deadly rave seems to be automatic (or maybe not, or maybe there will be an Ura Geese automatic and normal Geese manual, or...)
I really, really regret missing the RB2 party train.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 23:09post reply

quote:
I really, really regret missing the RB2 party train.

Well, there's always Garou Densetsu Battle Archives Vol.2. (I know, I know...)

Just to be entirely honest in the example I gave about Kim vs. Geese: if the Geese player keeps a cool head (which is sometime very hard when you chain matches after matches), Kim's fake is in fact one of the few fake supers you can identify as a fake early enough. But I still get caught sometimes (because I am an idiot), and I wanted the whole post to focus on Geese for glorification clarification.

So much for the OT! Oh, wait a second.

That really nice Geese vs. Lawrence match I included in the update of the previous post comes from a series of cool match-ups not available on their original website anymore. Luckily, a lot of them got updated on Youtube by a wonderful person.

Now we're good.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 23:33post reply

quote:
Well, there's always Garou Densetsu Battle Archives Vol.2. (I know, I know...)

Seriously ? If 98UM doesn't have a release date by october, I'll get BA2 with Sengoku Heroes. I'll have nobody to play with me, but...
...
Or World Heroes...
...
.......And the ugly cover...





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"Re(5):Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Mon 3 Sep 23:38post reply

Wow, so that's why people use the fake moves so much in the RB2 matches I've watched. That explains a lot, chaz.

Those videos are awesome, thanks for linking them!





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"Re(4):Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Tue 4 Sep 03:25post reply

quote:
Check out the fake Raising Storms at 00:04, 00:09 and 00:10.
Woh.
Wooooooh.
OK.

But then, these fake moves can also be used in combo like a dokocan/roman cancel, if I get it right ?
Since the new activation of KOF 98UM seems to have the same properties (which may be risky for the game) I guess you could pull out such a combo... Except you can only activate one gauge, and the deadly rave seems to be automatic (or maybe not, or maybe there will be an Ura Geese automatic and normal Geese manual, or...)
I really, really regret missing the RB2 party train.


I remeber about the feint moves in RB2... It was really interesting.
I remeber watching a fight long time ago, the 2 dude were playing like Chaz said, with 5 sec or more of mind gaming in a Xiang fei / Duck king fight. They did pull out some crazy stuff, so impresive that I didn't even guess how they did it. I was then just watching them with big eyes, and some twinkling stars around me...






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"Re(9):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Tue 4 Sep 07:47post reply

quote:
is there a link for the vid?


It's on the start of the thread... those who can read japanese have seen it.
Fixed. I meant a link to download.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Tue 4 Sep 13:28:post reply

To further add on the 'feints' subject.

Example for Zero and Zero special.

quote:
Hamaru had a projectile feint, and I never understood the usefulness of it.



You might have been trying to fake the enemy from full screen; in order to "make" the enemy jump.... That's retarded.

The feint itself is good at close combat; at a certain distance (a little less than "round start" distance), a blocked senpu retsu san recovers slowly when the enemy block it, and since it's close, some characters can't jumping or if they see the move the move too late, they will rather block the whirlwind and then attack you; when you make that happen; you can feint the move, and then do a running throw.

Let's say that the enemy saw you, then you can feint the whirlwind, and do a running A or a running strong slash; OR you could have made the whirlwind instead of the feint, or even better yet, you could add another feint after the initial feint.

The fact that hao is a lose cannon when running with quick attacks and long attacks works in advantage of the feint; also the fact that in korin and musouken the whirlwind was too damn abusable; and the feint itself can bring a change of pace the gameplay that actually makes the character both; more interesting to play and have a bigger edge on the offensive; but as previously stated; you have to tame your enemy after many hours of play and perhaps days and months, so that he can realize what choices does he have, and what possible "solutions" can he come up with.

More games need feints :P





[this message was edited by Toxico on Tue 4 Sep 13:30]

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"Re(7):Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Tue 4 Sep 15:47post reply

quote:
Let's say that the enemy saw you, then you can feint the whirlwind, and do a running A or a running strong slash; OR you could have made the whirlwind instead of the feint, or even better yet, you could add another feint after the initial feint.

Finally !
Thanks !





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"Re(8):Re(10):Niconicopunch!!" , posted Tue 4 Sep 23:57post reply

This thread is stuffed with useful information!





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"That horrid emotion system." , posted Fri 7 Sep 12:43post reply

One of the items that bothered me about "1998" is the emotion system and I thought it was horrible in here. Other than that, nothing much else bothered me. So, is there a way to make it back to "1996" or "1997" or am I still stuck with that uh, thing? (If you need examples, characters like Mai have a happy face when you press start at the order select screen, characters like Andy have a neutral face and characters like Rugal have an angry face.)







うぐう!

Just a Person
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"Re(1):That horrid emotion system." , posted Fri 7 Sep 23:38post reply

quote:
One of the items that bothered me about "1998" is the emotion system and I thought it was horrible in here. Other than that, nothing much else bothered me. So, is there a way to make it back to "1996" or "1997" or am I still stuck with that uh, thing? (If you need examples, characters like Mai have a happy face when you press start at the order select screen, characters like Andy have a neutral face and characters like Rugal have an angry face.)



Actually that system is from KoF'97, if I'm not mistaken (though KoF'98 also had it).

Anyway, that was just an optional thing; you don't have to check these faces if you don't want to.





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"Re(2):That horrid emotion system." , posted Sat 8 Sep 00:59post reply

quote:
Actually that system is from KoF'97, if I'm not mistaken (though KoF'98 also had it).

Anyway, that was just an optional thing; you don't have to check these faces if you don't want to.



How faces are attributed works slightly differently in each game. It does affect the gameplay (although not in a dramatic way), so it does not really qualify as "optional".





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"Re(3):That horrid emotion system." , posted Sat 8 Sep 03:36post reply

quote:
Actually that system is from KoF'97, if I'm not mistaken (though KoF'98 also had it).

Anyway, that was just an optional thing; you don't have to check these faces if you don't want to.


How faces are attributed works slightly differently in each game. It does affect the gameplay (although not in a dramatic way), so it does not really qualify as "optional".



Bingo. The faces affect the outcome of a bout (although not in a big way), which is why I brought this issue up. After "1998", this was abolished completely.







うぐう!

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"Re(4):That horrid emotion system." , posted Sat 8 Sep 04:32post reply

quote:
How faces are attributed works slightly differently in each game. It does affect the gameplay (although not in a dramatic way), so it does not really qualify as "optional".


Bingo. The faces affect the outcome of a bout (although not in a big way), which is why I brought this issue up. After "1998", this was abolished completely.



From what I recall the faces reflect the relationship between characters, and that only affects how much stock they have at the beginning of a match (for example, Iori's on bad terms with everyone so he'll always start with no stock - I don't remember how it is in extra though, maybe the bar's shorter or longer, since that's affected betwen round anyway; a character that follows someone (s)he's neutral to will retain stock from the previous round and a character on good terms will get one extra level of stock); I think it also affects if a yet-unused character from the same team in the background will assist during a dizzy if you press ABC, but it's not something I've seen happening in 98...





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"Re(5):That horrid emotion system." , posted Sat 8 Sep 05:48post reply

While you are "thinking" that is the execution of the team assist I can assure you that it does indeed has to do what you think that it does.
quote:
...I think it also affects if a yet-unused character from the same team in the background will assist during a dizzy if you press ABC, but it's not something I've seen happening in 98...







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"Re(6):That horrid emotion system." , posted Sat 8 Sep 06:23post reply

Actually, there are two emotion systems : the one in the Neo Geo - PS1 version, and the DC version, which is based on the same friendship system as the assist.

I guess there will be the option to choose between "original" and "DC" (and hopefully "none", since nobody liked either).





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"Re(7):That horrid emotion system." , posted Sat 8 Sep 07:34:post reply

quote:
From what I recall the faces reflect the relationship between characters, and that only affects how much stock they have at the beginning of a match (for example, Iori's on bad terms with everyone so he'll always start with no stock - I don't remember how it is in extra though, maybe the bar's shorter or longer, since that's affected betwen round anyway; a character that follows someone (s)he's neutral to will retain stock from the previous round and a character on good terms will get one extra level of stock); I think it also affects if a yet-unused character from the same team in the background will assist during a dizzy if you press ABC, but it's not something I've seen happening in 98...


In "1997", if you were in Advanced mode, it affected the number of stocks you'd receive tremendously and it affects the actions of the team members. For Extra mode, only the latter is implied. In "1998", this is the case as well for both modes. However, unlike in "1997", "1998" is more lenient because if you lost with three stocks in the end with Rugal for example, you'd start the next round with two stocks instead of none. Regardless of relationships, the bar keeps getting shorter in Extra mode when you lose.

quote:
Actually, there are two emotion systems : the one in the Neo Geo - PS1 version, and the DC version, which is based on the same friendship system as the assist.

I guess there will be the option to choose between "original" and "DC" (and hopefully "none", since nobody liked either).



Oh yeah. I forgot about the DC version. It's been years since I've played it. Never the less, I'd figure that you already have the chance to remove the advantage anyway.







うぐう!

[this message was edited by Bata kun on Sat 8 Sep 07:37]

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"Re(7):That horrid emotion system." , posted Sat 8 Sep 17:04post reply

quote:
Actually, there are two emotion systems : the one in the Neo Geo - PS1 version, and the DC version, which is based on the same friendship system as the assist.



I read once that there are in fact two different systems on the Neo Geo version: on arcade ("MVS") settings, it is randomized every day. On home console settings, it depends on the character's persona. But I can't verify right now because my copy of 98 is a few thousand kilometers away.

Iggy: unless I am mistaken, one extra advantage of getting the BA compilations (over playing on a PC emulator) is that you get access to the Neo Geo CD soundtracks.





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"Re(8):That horrid emotion system." , posted Sat 8 Sep 18:02post reply

quote:
I read once that there are in fact two different systems on the Neo Geo version: on arcade ("MVS") settings, it is randomized every day. On home console settings, it depends on the character's persona.

Indeed. Some characters could have several moods (randomised) while other were always high, bored or assholes.





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"Re(1):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Fri 21 Sep 03:12post reply

TGS !

It feels like the first real KOF official art I've seen in years. This screams "KOF"! This screams "SNK"!
I don't know if it's Shinkir or not, but even the illustrator has been chose wisely.

Hakase超GJ.





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"Re(2):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Fri 21 Sep 03:41post reply

Is that Geese giving the audience the finger!?





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"Re(2):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Fri 21 Sep 04:54post reply

quote:
TGS !

It feels like the first real KOF official art I've seen in years. This screams "KOF"! This screams "SNK"!
I don't know if it's Shinkir or not, but even the illustrator has been chose wisely.

Hakase超GJ.



Because of how little you can see, Red-haired leona's head looks hilarious and preposterous at a glance.
It indeed looks very classic SNK, though.





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"Re(2):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Fri 21 Sep 09:38post reply

quote:
TGS !

It feels like the first real KOF official art I've seen in years. This screams "KOF"! This screams "SNK"!
I don't know if it's Shinkir or not, but even the illustrator has been chose wisely.

Hakase超GJ.



Kasumi even looks like she has her '96 look.





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"Re(3):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Fri 21 Sep 10:00post reply

Oh man that art looks completely kof!

We haven't had that since... 98?

Oh yeah.





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"Re(4):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Fri 21 Sep 11:50post reply

quote:
Oh man that art looks completely kof!

We haven't had that since... 98?

Oh yeah.



Agree'd.

And yeah, Geese certainly looks awesome flippin' people off like that.

I only wonder though...is this bit of giving us this "old school style" art just a nice throw-back because we're still going to be stuck with the other style for XII on up?





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"Re(5):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Fri 21 Sep 12:56:post reply

quote:
We haven't had that since... 98?



2000 was the last "shinkiro era" cabinet art (oddly enough, those posters are still present in my local arcade)

quote:
I only wonder though...is this bit of giving us this "old school style" art just a nice throw-back because we're still going to be stuck with the other style for XII on up?



Well, the only poster that could be seen wasn't really "falcoonish" if you know what I mean.

I just noticed; old Terry, no garou one.





[this message was edited by Toxico on Fri 21 Sep 13:46]

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"Re(6):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Fri 21 Sep 15:56post reply

quote:
2000 was the last "shinkiro era" cabinet art (oddly enough, those posters are still present in my local arcade)


Hey you're right. I actually forgot about the existance of 99 and 2000, hmmm.





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"Re(2):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Fri 21 Sep 17:37post reply

quote:
It feels like the first real KOF official art I've seen in years. This screams "KOF"! This screams "SNK"!
I don't know if it's Shinkir or not, but even the illustrator has been chose wisely.

Hakase超GJ.

Quiet and undynamic pose, this look deffinitely like Shinkiro's art. This KOF98UM is turning from gold to diamond....






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"Re(1):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sat 22 Sep 05:06post reply

I can't list everything that's reported (also I don't think people would be interested in so many details in a game that's still in development)(and people who are know where to find the information) but the list of the changes keeps coming, and it's incredible. The only bad things so far are the gauges (which don't look so great) and the fact the characters waiting in the background have disappeared (that's a bit lame).

Several characters have new moves, lots of mild changes, and lots of new demo (Terry/Geese, Billy/geese (the same as in RB), Rugal/Goenitz (Rugal is crouched with his hand on his eye, then he stands up with his eye red, laughing like mad), Shermie/Brian...) . Lucky has changed completely, and while ura Joe is still lame, he has a few new moves.

I just can't wait.





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"Re(2):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sat 22 Sep 05:54post reply

quote:
and the fact the characters waiting in the background have disappeared (that's a bit lame).



No they haven't

I think those latest "Press" screens are just 1on1 matches not 3 on 3.

Cool to see them using previous backgrounds, they're really putting the "Ultimate" in Ultimate Match which is awesome!





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"Re(3):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sat 22 Sep 06:55post reply

quote:
Cool to see them using previous backgrounds, they're really putting the "Ultimate" in Ultimate Match which is awesome!



Including Orochi's own, and the red effect when Riot Iori and Leona face off; also, new moves for Eiji and Krauser:

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/822/822006p1.html





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"Re(4):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sat 22 Sep 18:04:post reply

Not only old backgrounds, but also old musics : with a Heidern/Ralf/Clark team, you will have their 95 music.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/gamespace/download_alt.php?pid=935218&sid=6179551&id=6179551





[this message was edited by Iggy on Sat 22 Sep 19:42]

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"Re(5):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sat 22 Sep 23:22post reply

quote:
Cool to see them using previous backgrounds, they're really putting the "Ultimate" in Ultimate Match which is awesome!

---

Including Orochi's own, and the red effect when Riot Iori and Leona face off; also, new moves for Eiji and Krauser

---

Not only old backgrounds, but also old musics : with a Heidern/Ralf/Clark team, you will have their 95 music.



Wow... I thought KoF 98:UM would be just another rehash of another previously released game, but SNKP is really putting effort in it! When you think the game can't be better than it seems to be, they announce another cool feature!

KoF XII is taking a long time to be released, but KoF 98:UM seems to be a really great way to spend some time while XII doesn't arrive...





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"Re(6):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 23 Sep 03:21post reply

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNiEYKb7fF4

including cover art, gameplay, and World Heroes Perfect.





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"Re(4):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 23 Sep 05:32post reply

quote:
"Raising". As it raises from the ground. The new graphics are cool. Indeed, it's back to the RB1 "surrounding" version, but it seems to cover more ground as well...



It's actually raging レイジング and not raising ライジング.

We all should know for sure since Rock Howard has both Raging Storm and Raising Tackle in Garou, and you can even clearly hear the difference in his speech. :)





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"Re(5):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 23 Sep 07:12post reply

quote:
It's actually raging レイジング and not raising ライジング.
ベルモンドの子孫よ また会おう

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"Re(7):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 23 Sep 07:18post reply

quote:
including cover art, gameplay, and World Heroes Perfect.

World heroes gorgeus's art is gorgeus.





TreIII
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"Re(8):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 23 Sep 13:48post reply

Seeing Geese get his "pick you up off the ground, just so I can slam you back into it!" move makes me giddy.

I can only hope that maybe they'll give Yamazaki his "stompy stompy" special from RB2 as well, either in his default or his EX.





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Iggy
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"Re(8):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 23 Sep 17:30post reply

TreIII : Ura Yamazaki has his Drill level 5, is that the move you're talking about ? I don't know Yama very well.

quote:
World heroes gorgeus's art is gorgeus.


Unfortunately, it is not. When you watch it closely (there was a scan of it somewhere) you see it was drawn by some second rate eroge artist. Jeanne and Ryko are just random moe females, and Hanz looks like an average virgin 15 years old male protagonist. Such a bummer after the brilliant arts of the other compilations.





Ikari Loona
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"Re(5):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Sun 23 Sep 22:49post reply

quote:
"Raising". As it raises from the ground. The new graphics are cool. Indeed, it's back to the RB1 "surrounding" version, but it seems to cover more ground as well...


It's actually raging ƒ‚‚ƒ‚ and not raising ƒ‚‚ƒ‚.

We all should know for sure since Rock Howard has both Raging Storm and Raising Tackle in Garou, and you can even clearly hear the difference in his speech. :)



His team move with Terry makes it sound like it's Rising for both moves: he starts by saying "rising", performs the rising tackle, then the victim's sent Terry's way, who uses buster wolf, I think, then rock finishes with the R***** Storm, only saying "storm" - so he just ends up saying "rising storm".





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Toxico
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"Re(9):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 03:52post reply

quote:
I can only hope that maybe they'll give Yamazaki his "stompy stompy" special from RB2 as well, either in his default or his EX.



quote:
TreIII : Ura Yamazaki has his Drill level 5, is that the move you're talking about ? I don't know Yama very well.



He is speaking of Yama's real bout 2 pursuit, where he used a 3 hit combo to kick of his enemy from the ground; using it was rather.... satisfactory.

The lvl 5 drill is where, instead of pummeling the enemy with the snake arm; Yama throwed I think that 8 fireballs to them to finish them later with the hook; a move somewhat difficult to do that had good damage. Failing it would "reset" you to the "lvl 1 drill" by the way.





Iggy
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"Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 06:25post reply

Important change : EXT 95 Ky and Mai can't do their special air moves during a step.

quote:
He is speaking of Yama's real bout 2 pursuit, where he used a 3 hit combo to kick of his enemy from the ground; using it was rather.... satisfactory.

Oh, Ok. Let's see...
...
......
Apparently, Ura YAmazaki has it, and (like most of the new moves(for example, Eiji has a new move where he throws daggers in the air which uses his air frame and looks lame) it reuses existing sprites (in this case, some animations of his Drill move).
Speaking of which, the level 5 is easier to do : you just have to pump up to the level 4 and push ABC as fast as possible.
His baigaeshi or appears to be different : it's like Anakaris's kotodama gaeshi. First time, he swallow the projectile, and the second time, he shoots it. If this is true, Athena rape is in the air. (by the way, Athena seems to have a new super projectile. Weird.)

It is extremely easy to escape normal throws now, and it includes grabs. This is going to hurt Choi, Chin and Joe... (maybe that is the reason of Chin's new super throw ?)(he may also have a new super counter. Why not)
Speaking of my chara, Shermie hasn't changed a bit (too bad, but at least she won't show her panty every 5 seconds like in 02) beside the fact the Shermie Cute won't miss when done too close to the wall.
Mature's weak Dicide (dayside? deicide?) throws the opponent in the air, so you can follow up with a heaven's gate.
Also, her MAX heaven gate appears to be like in 96.
Vice has new antiair super.

Also, several (all ?) ura characters appear to have their own BGM. Ura King seems to have the 95 female team theme, Ura Mary her RB3 theme, and Ura Yuri her diet theme, but that would be too wonderful for my little fairy heart and I refuse to believe this before I hear it with my very hears.

Keep in mind some of this information might be wrong, or is subject to change, etc.





kofoguz
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"Re(9):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 08:00post reply

quote:
TreIII : Ura Yamazaki has his Drill level 5, is that the move you're talking about ? I don't know Yama very well.

World heroes gorgeus's art is gorgeus.

Unfortunately, it is not. When you watch it closely (there was a scan of it somewhere) you see it was drawn by some second rate eroge artist. Jeanne and Ryko are just random moe females, and Hanz looks like an average virgin 15 years old male protagonist. Such a bummer after the brilliant arts of the other compilations.


No I didnt mean the flyer/poster/cover, I meant the promo art of the characters,Jeanne , Hanzo, Rasputin, Bruce Lee guy and the viking guy. I guess they were drawn by ogura.
this one By The Way that kyo,iori, billy, athena, vice, mrbig poster is awesome.





Evenor
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"Re(2):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 09:44post reply

quote:

Vice has new antiair super.



kehfrgjrkfjsdksasbdknlfr

This is seriously shaping up to be an amazing game!!
I really hope once it's released, people won't discover some minor glitch that complete breaks the game.





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TreIII
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"Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 09:51post reply

quote:
I can only hope that maybe they'll give Yamazaki his "stompy stompy" special from RB2 as well, either in his default or his EX.

TreIII : Ura Yamazaki has his Drill level 5, is that the move you're talking about ? I don't know Yama very well.


He is speaking of Yama's real bout 2 pursuit, where he used a 3 hit combo to kick of his enemy from the ground; using it was rather.... satisfactory.


Ye-up! That's the one! ^_^

And...I just realized! With this game, I can FINALLY live out my dream of having my Team "Code Black" (Mr. Big, Lucky and Heavy D)! Huzzah!

Speaking of which, I wonder how far they will go with the "special team endings" this time around. With the likes of Eiji, Kasumi, the 96 Boss Team, as well as Goenitz and Orochi added into the mix, that definitely means that we should have at least a few more special ending pics to unlock. I expect to see my "95 Antagonist Team" and "96 Women's Team" pictures, to say the least.

Two more questions: who is doing Rugal's voice this time? Is it Norio Wakamoto (a la 2002), or is it back to the original guy? Also, will the "Evil!" versions of the New Face team actually have AI patterns this time around (as in, you may be able to fight them in Arcade mode)? It just wouldn't be the same without being able to re-live my favorite "Boss Fight" from any KOF game (Vs. Evil New Face in 97).





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Toxico
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"Re(2):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 10:20:post reply

quote:
Speaking of which, I wonder how far they will go with the "special team endings" this time around. With the likes of Eiji, Kasumi, the 96 Boss Team, as well as Goenitz and Orochi added into the mix, that definitely means that we should have at least a few more special ending pics to unlock. I expect to see my "95 Antagonist Team" and "96 Women's Team" pictures, to say the least.



Well since they got a drawer for the game; "worst case scenario" we should asume that there it will be an art gallery; we can only pray for them to evade a "generic universal ending" for 1p play

quote:
Also, will the "Evil!" versions of the New Face team actually have AI patterns this time around (as in, you may be able to fight them in Arcade mode)? It just wouldn't be the same without being able to re-live my favorite "Boss Fight" from any KOF game (Vs. Evil New Face in 97).



*I think* that in the AES 98' game they had a AI patterns written for 'alter' survival mode.

In 94 re bout had "improved" AI and was "a little" more difficult than the original game. I wonder if we'll get incredible hard AI bosses and enemies, I remember that clearing this game was obscenely easy :P





[this message was edited by Toxico on Mon 24 Sep 10:23]

TreIII
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"Re(3):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 10:28post reply

quote:
well since they got a drawer for the game; "worst case scenario" we should asume that there it will be an art gallery; we can only pray for them to evade a "generic universal ending" for 1p play


Agreed. I mean, while the programmers have a bit of work cut out for them, every body else has it rather easy. Some cute script writer could possibly write some more win quotes for the characters if they were so inclined. And the artist only has to basically "fill in the gaps" that would be alloted because of the new entrants to the cast.

Aesthetics-wise, there really isn't much excuse for them to not go as above and beyond as the programmers seemingly are doing so. I would be much more understanding if this was a new game, but they're using an established product as a basis, so I'm expecting a bit more.


quote:
*I think* that in the AES 98' game I think they had a AI patterns written for 'alter' survival mode.

94 re bout had "improved" AI and was "a little" more difficult than the original game. I wonder if we'll get incredible hard AI bosses and enemies, I remember that clearing this game was obscenely easy :P



Well, anything that they could do, with the possibility of expanding playtime, would be welcome, in my opinion. But it would just make sense, at the least, to make it so that, if you were in arcade mode, and were on your way to being able to fight Orochi, you'd have to go through the New Faces first.

Of course, if they wanted to be complete bastards about it, and made it so you had to fight Omega Rugal, Goenitz, the Orochi New Faces AND then a suped-up Orochi as the grand finale, ALL IN A ROW, I wouldn't be at all opposed to that either. ;)





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Iggy
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"Re(2):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 16:10post reply

quote:
Two more questions: who is doing Rugal's voice this time? Is it Norio Wakamoto (a la 2002), or is it back to the original guy?


No new voice, they all come from the original game (or 96, or RB depending on the situation).

quote:
Also, will the "Evil!" versions of the New Face team actually have AI patterns this time around (as in, you may be able to fight them in Arcade mode)?

All the ura characters have AI patterns. Also, the computer AI seems to have been rewritten, like in 96 or Musken, when the computer reacted to your inputs and antiaired you the second your character actually jumped.





Ishmael
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"Re(3):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 23:02post reply

quote:
All the ura characters have AI patterns. Also, the computer AI seems to have been rewritten, like in 96 or Musken, when the computer reacted to your inputs and antiaired you the second your character actually jumped.


It wouldn't be SNK if the CPU wasn't psychic. I guess someone, somewhere likes that sort of thing.





Toxico
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"Re(4):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Mon 24 Sep 23:36post reply

quote:

It wouldn't be SNK if the CPU wasn't psychic. I guess someone, somewhere likes that sort of thing.



Most likely they keep doing it, because it is "old school", and is something most game companies forgotten. But we are in different times now, I don't think the now day player has enough on in them to do something like learning al the AI patterns variations and creating (usually) boring strategies to counter the enemy. In most cases, the AI was so cheap, that any kind of change to the orinal pattern meant death, it was something like "if you go out of the rule book, you taste defeat" thing.

If you ask me, they should drop these methods; but most likely is easier to make a "counter everything" AI pattern than an AI that actually seems intelligent and can put the moves to creative uses.





shin ramberk
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"Re(5):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Tue 25 Sep 00:46post reply

quote:

It wouldn't be SNK if the CPU wasn't psychic. I guess someone, somewhere likes that sort of thing.


Most likely they keep doing it, because it is "old school", and is something most game companies forgotten. But we are in different times now, I don't think the now day player has enough on in them to do something like learning al the AI patterns variations and creating (usually) boring strategies to counter the enemy. In most cases, the AI was so cheap, that any kind of change to the orinal pattern meant death, it was something like "if you go out of the rule book, you taste defeat" thing.

If you ask me, they should drop these methods; but most likely is easier to make a "counter everything" AI pattern than an AI that actually seems intelligent and can put the moves to creative uses.



Didn't Sega put a VF a few years back that had the fighting styles of famous VF players programmed into their VF game? I think Sega also had an AI system that learned from your patterns and actively worked to counter them so you had to continually change / modify your style. I could be misremembering here.





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Iggy
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"Re(4):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Tue 25 Sep 01:59post reply

quote:
It wouldn't be SNK if the CPU wasn't psychic. I guess someone, somewhere likes that sort of thing.


I was about to say "it's still better than the boring battles with that stupid CPU in Nejibako", but now I think of it I'm not sure.





Iggy
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"Re(1):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Wed 26 Sep 01:38post reply

Hakase interview
Nothing new, beside the fact the game is "95% complete", and that the arcade version seems compromised.
ハカセ神決定.





Toxico
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"Re(2):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Wed 26 Sep 02:08post reply

quote:
....and that the arcade version seems compromised.
ハカセ神決定.



Compromised as "at first, we thought that people will still play seriously a 10 year old game, but later realized that they wouldn't".





Iggy
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"Re(3):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Wed 26 Sep 02:37post reply

quote:
Compromised as "at first, we thought that people will still play seriously a 10 year old game, but later realized that they wouldn't".


I think the game would be much more successful in the arcades then MIA2... Especially when you look at MIA1.

But maybe it's just me. Anyways, he says he still wants an arcade version of the game. The problem comes from above him.





TreIII
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"Re(4):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Wed 26 Sep 05:08post reply

quote:
But maybe it's just me. Anyways, he says he still wants an arcade version of the game. The problem comes from above him.



Maybe they'll change their tune once they see actual sales from the PS2 version. If it's good, then maybe we might yet see a "Ver B" for the Arcades that probably will do something to fix the issues that might be present in the home port, followed by ANOTHER slew of ports of the arcade version for the PS2 and Wii...





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Count Hihihi
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"Re(6):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Wed 26 Sep 05:18post reply

quote:

Didn't Sega put a VF a few years back that had the fighting styles of famous VF players programmed into their VF game? I think Sega also had an AI system that learned from your patterns and actively worked to counter them so you had to continually change / modify your style. I could be misremembering here.



When asked about such a feature in VF3, Yu Suzuki mentioned that pretty much every game he has ever made learns the tactics the player uses often. This was in an interview in GameOn!USA.





YeldellGW
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"Re(7):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Thu 27 Sep 06:46post reply

I'm just happy that Yashiro, Shermie and Chris are being referred to as the Orochi team ingame.





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"Re(8):Re(10):The KOF 98UM Thread" , posted Thu 27 Sep 09:44post reply

life/power bar design sucks. overall im excited though





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