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| HAYATO 795th Post
 
Red Carpet Regular Member+
   
    
    
|  "Re(7):Guilty Gear 2 overture?" , posted Thu 19 Jul 01:53
quote:
Well, the same could be said about KOF,
I don't believe that you can exactly say "the same" about KOF, but I indeed think of MI as another insulting byproduct released with the US market in mind. Anyhow, that's kind of a spin-off to the series. This GG has a "2" in its title.
Well, it can certainly be so, but I had more fun playing KOF:MI about 2 hours than I ever had with all the bunch of Dudikoffs that came after '99... At least KOF:MI tries to offer something new, it doesn't rehash the same sprites and gameplay of half a decade ago. To me, Playmore games were the true byproducts, but I understand that such a 2-D gaming fan like you may think otherwise.
I also love 2D gaming, but I don't let my passion blind me. In fact, I'm more excited about this game than, for instance, about Crapcom's "Basara Cross".
¿And what do you mean with that remark about the numbering of the title? ¿Are you trying to suggest that a solid storyline is still important? As if anyone cared about storylines in a fighting game nowadays...
And for "Anyone" I mean casual gamers, not obsessed geeks like us, those people out there who represet about 80% of the gaming population.
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| Arngrim 277th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(1):GAWDAMN!" , posted Thu 19 Jul 07:58
quote:
The game's not even out yet and people are lamenting it! Damn, at least let better screenshots or video come out before saying something.
As much as I'm a GG fan, I'll reserve judgement until I see more substantial. Here's hoping the soundtrack will rock.
No.
People is 'lamenting' (I would rather use 'commenting on') on the concepts presented. There is still room for this game to disappoint the audience and, as many have pointed out, judging the game will rely on the game itself once it has been released.
As it can easily be seen, certain data can be deduced from these 2 scans for sure. Some are obvious, like Sol not wielding the Fire Seal implying that the game is set in the past and that Sin has an unispired design. But one of the most important is the derailment from the basis of the saga, which is not a good thing in this case.
Please notice that what we are commenting on is the premise shown, not the game. This is not a flame-war forum.
And yes, this thread delivers. Logical, taking into account that the direction towards a capital franchise on fighting games nowadays is heading has been shown.
But I still want to quench your thirst.
Because I am the one that put you into the desert.
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| Undead Fred 2902th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
| "Re(5):Guilty Gear 2 overture?" , posted Thu 19 Jul 14:03
quote:
hmm, I didn't like Guilty Gear that much to begin with, so it doesn't bother me!
You Northamerican will burn in hell.
BE STILL YOUNG CHILD
AND HEAR NOW MY TALE
OF THE MIGHTY INTERNET HERO
O RECAP- HAIL, HAIL, HAIL
HIS INTERNET PENIS SWINGS LONG
AND SWINGS WIDE
FELLING MANY A FOE
DON'T BOTHER TO HIDE
HIS WORDS ARE LIKE ACID
CORROSIVE, CORRUPTIVE
HIS WISE, QUICK RESPONSES
ARE SO VERY DESTRUCTIVE
DIFFER WITH HIM
AND YOU'LL SUFFER HIS WRATH
HE'LL REND YOU WITH WORDS
USE YOUR BLOOD FOR HIS BATH
HE SPEAKS HIS OWN LANGUAGE
NEVER TRY TO DECIPHER
HOW BABBY IS FORMED
CAN BE USED AS A CYPHER
NOW SLEEP WELL YOUNG ONE
YOUR GOD RECAP IS HERE
HE'S SKIMMED ALL YOUR POSTS
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR
---------------------------------------
~An elegy by Undead Freud~
---------------------------------------
I was initially disappointed to hear (what I thought) was another 2D game going 3D, but A) since it was intended to be 3D from the get-go, but was limited by technology and B) this one's apparently not even a fighting game, I can't really whine about this one. Hell, maybe it'll be fun.
Also, Recap can't seem to post without spewing venom, so thanks for pissing on another nice thread. THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS
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| Recap
109th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(7):Guilty Gear 2 overture?" , posted Thu 19 Jul 20:07
quote:
Now with Recap, that is all fine with him if he claims the game will go to the crapshooter. If it does? Okay so what? Did the earth freeze over? I just don't get where this whole U.S. market thing is coming into mind. It sounds like a weak argument if that. What says Ishiwatari doesn't have that right to make whatever he wants?
Yeah. What if SNK-P wants to hire some illiterate Korean developers to make a 3D Metal Slug for the PS2? What if Iga decides that Akumajou Dracula won't use 2D art anymore? They have the right to make whatever they want...
A quite dumb question, seriously.
quote:
Yeah well last I checked it was North American audiences playing Street Fighter 2 on Xbox live and buying the 2D Castlevania titles for DS that Japan does not pay much attention to.
Are those the best examples you got? ... Seriously!
quote:
OH MAN
I remember that. Thanks! I'm gonna update with this later.
So now prerendered stuff is "3D"? ...!? This thread delivers, indeed!
quote:
If this was the next Guilty Gear fighting game, then that would be one thing, but it's just a spinoff game.
But it's not. There's no evidence of it being an offshot at all. Indeed, the game is called 'Guilty Gear 2', so for now, assumptions can only go in the opposite direction. I find it quite obvious.
quote:
Also, Recap can't seem to post without spewing venom, so thanks for pissing on another nice thread. THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS
Anytime.
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| Red Falcon 5929th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):Guilty Gear 2 overture?" , posted Thu 19 Jul 23:25:
quote:
So now prerendered stuff is "3D"? ...!? This thread delivers, indeed!
Hey, look who is being a smarmy ass again! Have an axe to grind because you ended up looking foolish in the other thread? I guess I'll dig out some of the stuff where he talks about always intending it to be 3D now, too. Although you'll probably ignore it too. Oh, and here is some extra info on pre-rendering for you.
Also... you seem to have missed this from the other thread, here it is again for your convenience!
Anyway, when did you do these amazing "side by side comparisons"? Did you take your computer down to the arcade and compare it visually with some likely old, burned-out cab monitors (while probably ignoring any possible gameplay issues)?
Or was this when you used to own a home cart system, which is unlikely as you said yourself that the video out on the home cart is crap and thusly it wouldn't be POSSIBLE to do an accurate comparison, unless you had a unit with modded vid output.. which I doubt, considering your comment. Or do you know somebody who has a supergun and some legit PCBs who plays said games on an RGB monitor? Regardless, a crapload of games have emulation issues, as hikarutilmitt says. I'm sure there are SOME which are emulated almost perfectly, but a lot (hell, probably the majority) are not, but I admittedly have little experience with them.
You know, I kept thinking about your claims about emulation being equally as moral as buying second hand games, and you know what, the more I thought about it the more I realized it really is just totally wrong. Here is a poorly drawn diagram I made to illustrate the comparitive differences. I'm using SS 0 because of a personal experience I had with it where a friend was emulating it a week after I bought it (and hell, a week after it came out period.)
As is demonstrated, if I were to sell my SS 0 cart, it's almost like "exchanging a right of ownership";I.E., if there was an "owner's license", I would be trading it off to some other person in a monetary exchange. The company made their original money, and REGARDLESS of whether they wanted an "owner's license" format where a buyer would have to sell it back to a state or industry run "game shop" to have it resold for a set price so the company could make money off the resale, there is no "theft" going on. An original copy was sold, and it exchanged hands; their profits were not diluted in any way as there are no "bootlegs" on the market.
The second illustration shows how downloading a rom works (or hell, a bootleg copy or a burn of a CD if we're talking about a CD-based format, what's happening is identical). You are in essence getting a "bootleg copy". It's as if the original purchaser bought it and made a bunch of copies of it and distributed them for free; this DOES damage company's profits in a sense (especially if the game was brand new, ala SS 0) If the game is old, although it will no longer directly affect the company as all extant copies have been sold/lost/destroyed/etc. and they are producing no more, it may seem "okay" on the surface, but it's still akin to flooding the market with bootlegs. They just don't have "physical form". It is still in a sense "stealing", however. If you were to go and buy an original copy, their original profit from the sale would not have been diluted (I.E., say I dumped the rom of SS 0, which cost me 600 new, and 6000 people downloaded a rom; it would be similar to having me sell 6000 copies of the game and selling them for a penny apiece, except that I would have theoretically given them away for free instead.) It's kind of like breaking down their profits so they would have made less and less money off the original sale.
However, as the game was new, Grant's downloading of the rom did INDEED eat in to the company's profits directly; in this situation, it is identical to getting a bootlegged copy, and the massive amount of romming and bootlegging directly damaged SNK in the late 90's (once the roms started to be dumped immediately, HK bootleggers would immediately flood the market with extremely cheap bootlegged carts which most arcades in HK and many other places in Asia would pick up instead of legit copies)
I don't think your claims of there being "moral issues" about both processes is sensible; otherwise second hand sales would probably still be legally questionable. As it is, they are not. Although the game industry wanted to replicate the Recording Industry of Japan's saihanbai kakaku iji seido/resale price maintenence system (This system is why Japanese CD resale prices are so high. It is allegedly designed to keep up fair profits, but the practice has been deemed profiteering in a number of industrial countries and has been banned or is heavily regulated in many, including the UK and the US) where they would set the prices on used games, have them sold via licensed resalers, and would have established dates the games could be sold/when resales would stop (they probably would have used the same little X and Y symbols the Recording Industry uses), they lost and this never happened, and it never would have happened outside of Japan, period. Regardless, this is all why second-hand sales are quite legal and why roms (unless it's licensed, like what Nintendo is doing right now) are generally illegal. Hell, I'm pretty confident that the process of cracking and dumping roms is in of itself illegal.
Is also occurred to me while I was boxing my remaining stuff up for my move; as I was looking at many old Megadrive, PCE, and Superfami games, I noticed something and figured I'd do a few scans. The "no resale" label is NOT on them. Many of them feature the "Rental Prohibited" or "No commercial use" warnings, but nothing about resales at all; many from the same era as PS also do not have any such warnings. the "no resale" concept dates from the Playstation era and is most definately connected to the transition to CD as the major format.If all of my PS 1 and Saturn stuff weren't boxed already I'd go and check some of those, too, as the more I think about it, the more confident I am that at least one of the big companies didn't participate in the whole issue. As Sony is one of the big players in the Japanese music industry as well, they probably came up with the idea of trying to regulate it in the exact same manner they use in the regulation of CD sales. They lost.
quote:
Yeah. What if SNK-P wants to hire some illiterate Korean developers to make a 3D Metal Slug for the PS2? What if Iga decides that Akumajou Dracula won't use 2D art anymore? They have the right to make whatever they want...
A quite dumb question, seriously.
And.. what does this even mean? Are you trying to be sarcastic? You're right, a developer DOES have the right to make whatever they want. If you don't like it, tough. Stay away from it. You don't have to like it, but you can't STOP them from doing whatever the hell they feel like doing. If this was SOME attempt at sarcasm, it's just terribly flawed, as... they do indeed have the right to do whatever the hell they please. If Nintendo felt like turning Mario in to a transsexual, they could damn well do so. It would cause a public outcry, but nobody could stop them.
quote:
But it's not. There's no evidence of it being an offshot at all. Indeed, the game is called 'Guilty Gear 2', so for now, assumptions can only go in the opposite direction. I find it quite obvious.
I find this interesting too, those are quite some assumptions YOU'RE making. I, or anybody, can easily find it "OBVIOUS" that it is a spin-off using the same logic you used; it's called Guilty Gear 2: Overture (not to mention that I seem to recall WAAAY back when they first revealed what Sin looked like, they stated he was from a Spin-off game on the 360... I'll look for that article when I get home from work, too) dropping the "X" sequence which characterizes the fighting games in many people's eyes; the usage of "overture" states that it is a prequel to something, perhaps to a new GG fighting game, kind of like how there are a number of non-RPG FF7 spinoffs now that also have odd subtitles (I.E., "Dirge of Cerberus"). The fact that it.. isn't a fighter but a bizarre conglomeration of RTS and 3rd person action also make it more LOGICAL (and if we're going to pay attention to the storyline, that it's a prequel) that it is indeed some kind of spin off. That's a whole lot of assuming there, isn't it? Isn't any different than what you did, but I think there's a BIT more thought and logic put in to it, although you probably only responded like that with the explicit intent of trying to argue with Fred.
 Best site EVER:Link Here
[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Thu 19 Jul 23:54] |
| Professor 2394th Post
MMCafe Owner
     
| "Re(5):Guilty Gear 2 overture?" , posted Fri 20 Jul 01:21:
OUCH! WHAT DO YOU DO! I didn't think we'd have to watch this all over again.
I hate reruns unless they're vintage from the 80's, and this show's less than a week old.
Recap:
It feels as though you're trying to pick a fight on anyone that comments against your opinion. For example, telling people of one region to burn in hell is insulting, plain outright stupid, and it probably just took you like 5 seconds to write without even thinking. Please, try and put a bit more thought into what you write. This is a warning.
BTW, it'd help to check up on things before you state them as though they're facts.
Red Falcon:
Thanks for notifying me, but for now, let's drop the subject overall. Next time you spot a bad flame, just give me a note. As intriguing as the used-games topic is, there's no need to yank the subject back up on an unrelated thread. That'll do more bad than good.
BTW, it's correct that you didn't see the "No Resale" logo on your older games. The logo only appeared after 1998, when CESA launched its campaign against used games. It was abolished after 4 years in 2002, when the surpreme court made its ruling. It's actually a pretty short-lived thing.
I've put up a link on the BBS's Threads list, which people can use from now on whenever there's something up in the BBS.
[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 20 Jul 01:47] |
| IkariDC 641th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(8):Guilty Gear 2 overture?" , posted Fri 20 Jul 05:38
quote:
Sorry for dredging up the old thread, Prof, I just find it amusing that he continues to ignore anything that disproves something he claims
Well, I found it extremely funny that you made copy pasta of that large chunk of text from the old thread!
I think that maybe the problem is that he is not explaining himself because he thinks it's hopeless at this time, but that is the very reason why the argument is getting katamari damacy-ish bigger, rolling and rolling?
But seriously dudes, chill out! I think that all of you are valuable customers of the cafe, It's nice and entertaining to have some friendly flame wars here and there, but when "friendly" is going down the toilet, it's a shame.
GAZEROCK IS NOT DEAD
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| Recap
113th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(8):Guilty Gear 2 overture?" , posted Fri 20 Jul 05:45
quote:
If I might offer some friendly (honest, friendly!) advice: back away and post with a bit less of an attitude. I know you've been booted from other forums for this exact same attitude.
You have a huge chip on your shoulder and seem to have no problem displaying it to people as though you're proud of it, but it's the sort of thing that makes people not like you. I'm not saying that everyone wants to be liked by everyone, that's dumb, but sometimes a person just needs to know when to shut up (this post aside).
If you really know me from some other forums which I've been "booted" from, you'll also know quite well that the "attitude" I develope is _always_ a response, much like in this case. It's fine if you don't like me. I never pretended to be liked. But don't fool yourselves. Liking me or not, agreeing with me or not, the whole thread is here to be read and get where both, the idiocy and the flame war appetite comes from at any moment.
If you or anybody else wants to talk about any particular post/subject though, I'll be glad to give you all the explanations and context needed. In the meantime, save your advices. Thanks.
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| Recap
116th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(5):oh" , posted Fri 20 Jul 09:25
quote:
I really feel bad to tell this to another Spaniard, but I think you're just rude and elitist.
Yeah, you also said I'm "very narrow-minded" while missing totally the point of the discussion you were taking part at the same time so how can be relevant what you have to ever say?
quote:
It's not _always_ a response, it's just how you post. If it's not about fake-low-res presentations (and the bitching therein) it's about general inaccuracies of a game's presentation. It's ALWAYS one of those and that's not an attitude, it's just arrogant and annoying. There's a reason that an edited (and severely scanlined) Decap Attack image was made that says "Recap Attack!" on it .
Ohh, so there you have it... you were related to the TNL retards. I was pretty sure that the way you talked in the SF Zero 3 thread about the "anal" people who care about graphic presentation and whatnot had an actual insulting intention to it towards me at then end, you know. I feel less "guilty" now you have finally exposed yourself.
So let's recap: You find me "bitching" once again about "scanlines" in one of your very forums and feel the need of posting a pretty assholic (and misinforming, by the way) reply because you just can't tolerate different opinions, especially if they remind you of your blatant ignorance (though that's just a side effect).
There were many people there very interested in knowing it all, you know. You could have let them do earlier.
Learn tolerance, fella. Maybe then your advices about "attitude" can be taken as something else than pointless ranting.
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| Juan 4416th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(6):oh" , posted Fri 20 Jul 09:37:
quote:
I really feel bad to tell this to another Spaniard, but I think you're just rude and elitist.
Yeah, you also said I'm "very narrow-minded" while missing totally the point of the discussion you were taking part at the same time so how can be relevant what you have to ever say?
It's not _always_ a response, it's just how you post. If it's not about fake-low-res presentations (and the bitching therein) it's about general inaccuracies of a game's presentation. It's ALWAYS one of those and that's not an attitude, it's just arrogant and annoying. There's a reason that an edited (and severely scanlined) Decap Attack image was made that says "Recap Attack!" on it .
Ohh, so there you have it... you were related to the TNL retards. I was pretty sure that the way you talked in the SF Zero 3 thread about the "anal" people who care about graphic presentation and whatnot had an actual insulting intention to it towards me at then end, you know. I feel less "guilty" now you have finally exposed yourself.
So let's recap: You find me "bitching" once again about "scanlines" in one of your very forums and feel the need of posting a pretty assholic (and misinforming, by the way) reply because you just can't tolerate different opinions, especially if they remind you of your blatant ignorance (though that's just a side effect).
There were many people there very interested in knowing it all, you know. You could have let them do earlier.
Learn tolerance, fella. Maybe then your advices about "attitude" can be taken as something else than pointless ranting.
I SEE
think well your answer
[this message was edited by Juan on Fri 20 Jul 09:38] |
| Catalyst 270th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(2):Re:Guilty Gear 2 overture?" , posted Fri 20 Jul 14:48:
quote:
Whoa, things really flared up while I was asleep.
Recap:
From what I gather, you want others to respect your opinion, yet, you keep provoking them and don't really care to listen when they've got anything to say.
If you have issues in communicating with people, forums are not meant for you. It would be more wise to post at locations where you can contribute knowledge without discussion, such as the Wikipedia.
I'm afraid that you've outwelcomed your stay here. Goodbye.
Does this mean what I think it does? Did Recrap become the first user banned from the Cafe? I hope not, at least not now, when everybody was having so much fun...
Well there was one long long back, I wasn't a member but a lurker at the time where the professor refused to let one person join, I believe it was a woman but she was known for causing trouble someone from gamefaqs but this was a long time ago. Wish I knew the name for proof of evidence.
But anyways now that all the hubub is over and seeing this thread I made went up and down lets try to keep this on news shall we folks?  
[this message was edited by Catalyst on Fri 20 Jul 14:52] |
| Sensenic 1573th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "(Not really about) Guilty Gear 2 overture" , posted Fri 20 Jul 18:25
quote:
The last ban that I recall was back in 2004, someone named SNKNeoShingo. I believe Orochi Tigresa was also banned somewhere along the line. Oh, the memories. Bottom line, people don't get banned here unless they really, *really* try hard.
There we go! Orochi Tigresa that was the name. I didn't know Shingo got banned, I thought everyone kind of put up with his antics and made him the butt of jokes?
Nope, IIRC it was an account someone made precisely to make fun of SNKneogeoshingoandthelike, stating he was the true one, always trolling his posts, etc.
Like the wind...
"When the finger points to heaven the idiot looks at the finger."
-A kid from Amélie.
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| deisied 425th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(8):Re:Guilty Gear 2 overture?" , posted Mon 23 Jul 15:23
quote:
I just don't think I can add much to the board anymore, that's why I haven't been posting here. I still have Majoria's News, if anybody is interested.
I miss Rid too! But, that's my fault more than the fault of his not posting here much anymore.
Anyway, to post on topic (for some reason), I really get the feeling that GG2O is very much Ishiwatari showing us the kind of intentions he had as a game designer from the beginning. I mean, it's not just the "GG was originally planned for 3D" thing, either. It's clear that he's had this world, these characters, and this music in his head for a long time. GGX and forward was the kind of hardcore establishment he needed to actually get the business opportunity to let this world free, I think. Now that he's actually getting a chance to do that, it feels like a betrayal to us, who for the most part only give a shit about him because of a great fighting game. To him, I think it's the opposite.
Anyway, I'm interested 'cause I kinda am a GG nerd even past just thinking it's a solid fighter. I'm into the characters, music, world, (story lawlz). At the very least, that's one way this game cannot fail. The soundtrack will rock, the character designs will be creative but flamboyant (flag). It'll be worth checking out at the very least. If it turns out "overture" really does mean that this game is a precursor to GG2:GRAND MAGNUM OPERA the fighting game conclusion, then that's even more reason to get excited.
So yeah, in a franchise where even the hardcore crowd is bitching about incremental arcade updates, it seems hard to get upset about an attempt to have us look at the franchise in a new way. Then again, Isuka didn't get them very far...
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ISHIWATARIIII!
"Re(6):oh" , posted Sat 21 Jul 03:36
"A man with a golden eye told me to give this" , posted Wed 25 Jul 03:41: