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repukken
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"Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Thu 31 May 17:50post reply

What'd you guys think?

http://high-scoreonline.com/2007/05/31/first-image-of-super-sf2-turbo-remix/#more-282





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GekigangerV
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"Re(1):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Thu 31 May 18:00post reply

quote:
What'd you guys think?

http://high-scoreonline.com/2007/05/31/first-image-of-super-sf2-turbo-remix/#more-282



Looks good, but the thumbs bother me. I think the original sprite had them pointed horizontally, while these are in some impossible vertical bend.





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"Re(2):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Thu 31 May 21:28post reply

quote:
What'd you guys think?

http://high-scoreonline.com/2007/05/31/first-image-of-super-sf2-turbo-remix/#more-282


Looks good, but the thumbs bother me. I think the original sprite had them pointed horizontally, while these are in some impossible vertical bend.



I just saw one image in it, the Ken one.
It looks very good. If they manage to have the same fluid animation as SFIII, that will probably be the best 2D fighting game of the year.





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"Re(3):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 00:16post reply

Those inhuman thumbs need to be fixed but otherwise I like the way that the old SF2 sprite is being built upon.

quote:
If they manage to have the same fluid animation as SFIII, that will probably be the best 2D fighting game of the year.


I'm not sure if there's going to be much competition in that catagory.





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"Re(4):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 00:36post reply

That looks so good that it is scary! This makes me wonder will Capcom continue on updating their other games and not just this version of SSF2X alone? This ALMOST makes me want to buy an HD television.





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"Re(4):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 00:47post reply

quote:
I'm not sure if there's going to be much competition in that catagory.



That's true... still, SNK plans to release KoF XII this year with completely new sprites, right? And Sammy was planning a port of Guilty Gear (not sure which one) to Wii this year, if I'm not mistaken.

quote:
This makes me wonder will Capcom continue on updating their other games and not just this version of SSF2X alone? This ALMOST makes me want to buy an HD television.


Yeah... if they do this with DarkStalkers, Morrigan would finally get brand-new sprites... unless they decide to remake every character EXCEPT her, just to keep up with our humorous quotes about that...





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"Re(5):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 01:00post reply

quote:
That looks so good that it is scary! This makes me wonder will Capcom continue on updating their other games and not just this version of SSF2X alone? This ALMOST makes me want to buy an HD television.



Well, it looks great, but I think we should wait till we see some actual footage of the game before judging it. In case they would aim to an SFIII-like animation rate, game development will take forever (too many sprites per char, I'm afraid), so my official bet is that the actual game will move like crap (much like an animated gif ala Odin Sphere). But I sincerely hope they don't ruin it completely and achieve a standard SF Alpha animation ratio...





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"Re(6):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 01:14post reply

Hopefully they will stick Peter Griffin in at the end after Bison.





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"Re(4):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 01:41post reply

quote:
Those inhuman thumbs need to be fixed but otherwise I like the way that the old SF2 sprite is being built upon.


I agree. I kept trying to bend my fingers into the position drawn and there's just no damned way, the human hand isn't built like that.

As it is, it looks nice, though. Long as they keep their promise of the gameplay being identical I'm fine.





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"Re(7):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 01:42post reply

I sincerely hope this isn't the way they plan on hyping the game.





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"Re(6):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 05:53post reply

quote:
Well, it looks great, but I think we should wait till we see some actual footage of the game before judging it. In case they would aim to an SFIII-like animation rate, game development will take forever (too many sprites per char, I'm afraid), so my official bet is that the actual game will move like crap (much like an animated gif ala Odin Sphere). But I sincerely hope they don't ruin it completely and achieve a standard SF Alpha animation ratio...


They are not going to touch the animation at all. It's swapping each old sprite for a new one, keeping intact everything: animation, hit boxes, etc. The producer said it: direct orders from Capcom.


And yes, those thumbs are weeeeird.





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"Re(7):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 09:11post reply

quote:
Well, it looks great, but I think we should wait till we see some actual footage of the game before judging it. In case they would aim to an SFIII-like animation rate, game development will take forever (too many sprites per char, I'm afraid), so my official bet is that the actual game will move like crap (much like an animated gif ala Odin Sphere). But I sincerely hope they don't ruin it completely and achieve a standard SF Alpha animation ratio...

They are not going to touch the animation at all. It's swapping each old sprite for a new one, keeping intact everything: animation, hit boxes, etc. The producer said it: direct orders from Capcom.


And yes, those thumbs are weeeeird.



What I would like is if Capcom USA got a hold of the 3S engine and started to make their own updates to the engine. Yes, I know this is super maximum blasphemy (sp?) but face it, Capcom JPN abandoned the SF IP a long time ago...

I'd rather have a bastard sequel then nothing at all.

I'd play a new version of 3S that had a few new characters and balanced the game a little bit. They can hire the top JPN and USA players to help with the balancing. 3S Chun Li needs to be slapped down!

I actually might buy a 360 just for this stupid game. If this game is only a downloadable game, its gonna be a BIG GAME.





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"Re(8):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 09:39post reply

Those are some WEIRD shoulder muscles and veins Ken's got going there. I'm no anatomy artists, but that seems...unusual.

quote:
I'd rather have a bastard sequel then nothing at all.

Yikes, what about Capcom Fighting Jam though?





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"Re(9):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 16:17post reply

quote:
Those are some WEIRD shoulder muscles and veins Ken's got going there. I'm no anatomy artists, but that seems...unusual.

I'd rather have a bastard sequel then nothing at all.
Yikes, what about Capcom Fighting Jam though?



Yeah, those arms are really weird lookin'... and I have studied anatomy. I think they are drawn too angular and with detail that doesn't seem realistic. It's not as bad as Rob Liefeld, though.





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"Re(10):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 17:10post reply

quote:
It's not as bad as Rob Liefeld, though.



Nothing is that bad. Liefeld draws aliens with nonexistent muscles, not humans.





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"Re(9):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 20:50post reply

quote:

Yikes, what about Capcom Fighting Jam though?



I know I always stick up for CFJ, but, at least that was made by Capcom, and not Capcom of America. I don't know if that makes your point more or less valid, actually.

Anyway, I don't think CFJ was a bad game at all, just SEVERELY lacking in characters. If you're going to make a game that's 95% recycled, you had better recycle a lot of stuff.

If they doubled the roster, I think they'd have something pretty decent. If they doubled it and added like, 4 totally new characters, they'd be doing great, and if they did all that and let you choose "grooves", then they might have something golden.

I thought CFJ was a great game to build upon, but only now that Capcom has refused to do so has it truly failed.

As for the Ken sprite...I like it better than the old Ryu one, but those arms/hands are screwed up. I think they tried a bit too hard.





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"Re(10):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 21:39post reply

quote:

Yikes, what about Capcom Fighting Jam though?


I know I always stick up for CFJ, but, at least that was made by Capcom, and not Capcom of America. I don't know if that makes your point more or less valid, actually.

Anyway, I don't think CFJ was a bad game at all, just SEVERELY lacking in characters. If you're going to make a game that's 95% recycled, you had better recycle a lot of stuff.

If they doubled the roster, I think they'd have something pretty decent. If they doubled it and added like, 4 totally new characters, they'd be doing great, and if they did all that and let you choose "grooves", then they might have something golden.

I thought CFJ was a great game to build upon, but only now that Capcom has refused to do so has it truly failed.



Yes, I agree. CFJ looked like a nice idea at first, and when Ingrid was announced as a playable character, I was hoping Capcom would add D.D. and Rook as well, and maybe Death (the one who talked to Haggar in the CFAS intro), maybe even Haggar and some characters from other Capcom games (Saturday-Night Slam Masters, Captain Commando, RockMan, Strider, etc.). With just a little plot it would be awesome in my opinion (well, NGBC had a very small plot, had sprites in different qualities, and yet it did look better than CFJ... except for the endings).





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"Re(10):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Fri 1 Jun 23:04post reply

quote:

Yeah, those arms are really weird lookin'... and I have studied anatomy. I think they are drawn too angular and with detail that doesn't seem realistic. It's not as bad as Rob Liefeld, though.


When I looked at the pic, the image that came to my mind was Toguro (Yuuyuu Hakusho)...
I think it's time to some internet flamming towards the artist, like the time with SNK vs Capcom Chaos and Nona's art depicting the characters with strange (burnt?) forearms and legs...





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"Re(2):Re(10):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First I" , posted Fri 1 Jun 23:18post reply

Has anyone posted a side by side comparison of the original animation and the refurbished one? Seeing what was in the original sprite and what has been modified might be interesting.





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"Re(10):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sat 2 Jun 01:02post reply

quote:

Yikes, what about Capcom Fighting Jam though?


I know I always stick up for CFJ, but, at least that was made by Capcom, and not Capcom of America. I don't know if that makes your point more or less valid, actually.

Anyway, I don't think CFJ was a bad game at all, just SEVERELY lacking in characters. If you're going to make a game that's 95% recycled, you had better recycle a lot of stuff.

If they doubled the roster, I think they'd have something pretty decent. If they doubled it and added like, 4 totally new characters, they'd be doing great, and if they did all that and let you choose "grooves", then they might have something golden.

I thought CFJ was a great game to build upon, but only now that Capcom has refused to do so has it truly failed.



I prefer to think CFJ did never happen. It takes all the awful decisions which had been decreasing the artistic quality of this company's fighting games with the time (upscaled sprites for a fake hi-res presentation, crossover nonsense where the sprites belong to different styles, ugly artwork...) and makes of them a video-game.

As for the new sprite from SSFIITHDR, I laughed, honestly, but we already have thread for that so I'm not repeating. It's interesting, nevertheless, that Western developers need to hire comic illustrators to draw sprites these days. 'Cause I don't believe it's _only_ due to the new resolution benchmarks, that is.





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"Re(10):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 3 Jun 15:33post reply

quote:
Those are some WEIRD shoulder muscles and veins Ken's got going there. I'm no anatomy artists, but that seems...unusual.

I'd rather have a bastard sequel then nothing at all.
Yikes, what about Capcom Fighting Jam though?


Yeah, those arms are really weird lookin'... and I have studied anatomy. I think they are drawn too angular and with detail that doesn't seem realistic. It's not as bad as Rob Liefeld, though.



I can see what their trying to do by mimicing the SSFII artist. But they should use less lines and change up the weight of the lines they do use and apply a little more gradation(left arm). As is most of the interior lines have the same thickness of the outline of the arm which flattens it.





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"Re(10):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 4 Jun 05:00post reply

quote:
Anyway, I don't think CFJ was a bad game at all, just SEVERELY lacking in characters. If you're going to make a game that's 95% recycled, you had better recycle a lot of stuff.

If they doubled the roster, I think they'd have something pretty decent. If they doubled it and added like, 4 totally new characters, they'd be doing great, and if they did all that and let you choose "grooves", then they might have something golden.


I'm not the biggest fan of groove systems, but CFJ was the best choice I can think of to put a groove system into. And Capcom didn't do it.

quote:
I thought CFJ was a great game to build upon, but only now that Capcom has refused to do so has it truly failed.


The old "Capcom doesn't get it right until the second try" theory? Probably true for CFJ as well.

quote:
As for the Ken sprite...I like it better than the old Ryu one, but those arms/hands are screwed up. I think they tried a bit too hard.



Might they be limited by the shapes of the original sprites? I can't help but feel Ken's arms should be a little longer, but his hands probably need to be not much further out than his knees.

As for the angularness, it will probably show off the "HD" aspect a bit better with those extra detail lines present onscreen.





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"Re(1):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 4 Jun 06:23post reply

You know what? I'm sure that if they had showed the exact same image example, but said the game was being developed in Japan and the sprites made by Japanese artists, everyone would be praising it, throwing love and joy everywhere, instead of making nonsensical critics about the shadows of Ken's thumbs.

Totally sure.

MESSATSU





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"Re(2):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 4 Jun 14:44post reply

quote:
You know what? I'm sure that if they had showed the exact same image example, but said the game was being developed in Japan and the sprites made by Japanese artists, everyone would be praising it, throwing love and joy everywhere, instead of making nonsensical critics about the shadows of Ken's thumbs.

Totally sure.

MESSATSU



i doubt it
most ppl are praising the sprite anyways.
a few of us that aren't just think it's badly drawn. thats all





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"Re(3):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 4 Jun 22:17post reply

quote:
i doubt it
most ppl are praising the sprite anyways.
a few of us that aren't just think it's badly drawn. thats all



Pssst, it's a trap!





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"Re(4):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Tue 5 Jun 00:16post reply

I HAVE THE FUNNIEST FEELING THAT I'VE SEEN THIS SOMEWHERE BEFORE





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"Re(5):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Tue 5 Jun 00:20post reply

Animated.





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"Re(6):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Tue 5 Jun 05:18post reply

quote:
Animated.



The gif proves that either american or japanese(for the sake of outsourcing : korea, russia, anywhere), if it's done this way, the guy is drawing some detachable muscles with visually painful positioned thumbs.





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"Re(7):cadaver flesh heavily resembles chicken" , posted Tue 5 Jun 06:38:post reply

quote:

The gif proves that either american or japanese(for the sake of outsourcing : korea, russia, anywhere), if it's done this way, the guy is drawing some detachable muscles with visually painful positioned thumbs.

I prefer to think CFJ did never happen. It takes all the awful decisions which had been decreasing the artistic quality of this company's fighting games with the time (upscaled sprites for a fake hi-res presentation, crossover nonsense where the sprites belong to different styles, ugly artwork...) and makes of them a video-game.

As for the new sprite from SSFIITHDR, I laughed, honestly, but we already have thread for that so I'm not repeating. It's interesting, nevertheless, that Western developers need to hire comic illustrators to draw sprites these days. 'Cause I don't believe it's _only_ due to the new resolution benchmarks, that is.







ok

[this message was edited by JUAn on Tue 5 Jun 06:46]

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"Re(2):Re(10):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First I" , posted Tue 5 Jun 07:29post reply

quote:
Those are some WEIRD shoulder muscles and veins Ken's got going there. I'm no anatomy artists, but that seems...unusual.

Yeah, those arms are really weird lookin'... and I have studied anatomy. I think they are drawn too angular and with detail that doesn't seem realistic. It's not as bad as Rob Liefeld, though.

I can see what their trying to do by mimicing the SSFII artist. But they should use less lines and change up the weight of the lines they do use and apply a little more gradation(left arm). As is most of the interior lines have the same thickness of the outline of the arm which flattens it.

I agree that the thumbs are really weird and they look broken. But the rest of the critiques about line weight changes and other details that don't really support the body structure or anything like that aren't really keeping in mind something very important- this thing is animated. If the detail work was a lot simpler, then yes, you can toy around with line weight and so forth. Otherwise, trying to track the details (look how much is in his hair alone, for example) AND maintain consistent light and shadow while is already enough without having shifting line weight to deal with. I'm just saying that while some of the comments are valid, others are judging it as a still drawing, as opposed to a frame of animation.





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"Re(7):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Tue 5 Jun 08:52:post reply

I know this much, it doesn't look like ST Ken to me anymore, ha ha ha. Sigh, why can't people leave well enough alone? All this bloody HD, what about us who LIKE our sprites pixelated and blurry? I don't want to be playing a comic book, I want to be playing ST. Waaaaaah, I'm going to go and have a childish temper tantrum now.

Maybe if it draws in some new players, but... I dunno, I'm too much of an old-timey elitist to appreciate this sort of thing. Despite what many people seem to believe, HD doesn't make a game better if it was fine as it was.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Tue 5 Jun 09:02]

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"Re(8):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Tue 5 Jun 09:05post reply

quote:
I know this much, it doesn't look like ST Ken to me anymore, ha ha ha. Sigh, why can't people leave well enough alone? All this bloody HD, what about us who LIKE our sprites pixelated and blurry? I don't want to be playing a comic book, I want to be playing ST. Waaaaaah, I'm going to go and have a childish temper tantrum now.

Maybe if it draws in some new players, but... I dunno, I'm too much of an old-timey elitist to appreciate this sort of thing.

Well, that's what I didn't really like about the project... just seemed redundant. Like there weren't enough versions of SF2 out there to begin with.

And I think that's where people get pissy about the nationality of the team making it- I think if it were a Japanese team, I'd be whining about them beating a dead horse, but since it's a US team, it comes off more as the annoying little brother tagging along and yelling MOM SAID I COULD PLAY TOO





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"Re(8):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Tue 5 Jun 20:51post reply

quote:
All this bloody HD, what about us who LIKE our sprites pixelated and blurry? I don't want to be playing a comic book, I want to be playing ST. Waaaaaah, I'm going to go and have a childish temper tantrum now.

Maybe if it draws in some new players, but... I dunno, I'm too much of an old-timey elitist to appreciate this sort of thing. Despite what many people seem to believe, HD doesn't make a game better if it was fine as it was.



Well, on the bright side, unless you were wanting another re-release of the original, this doesn't effect you, so much. I mean, you still have your old-timey sprites, and all these whippersnappers with their crazy HD contraptions get their comic book thing.

From my perspective, I don't lose anything by them releasing this, and if they HAVE to do it again, I'd rather they do something new with it. I agree that it wasn't broke to begin with, but I'm interested to see how this will turn out all the same.

Of course, this may be the difference between an old person sitting on a porch and griping about kids on scooters and an old person who thinks they're young because they're riding a scooter. Or...something.





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"Re(8):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Wed 6 Jun 01:45post reply

quote:
HD doesn't make a game better if it was fine as it was.



Well I don't think the point of this remake is to "make it better" just breathe some new life into it.

I could be a purist and say running my old PSX games on a emulator with texture filtering, anti-aliasing and higher resolution is bastardizing the original but I think it makes me want to play it again and I will still faithfully remember the way I played it originally.





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"Re(8):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Wed 6 Jun 02:57post reply

If it offends you so badly that you would rather have nothing, then go ahead and have nothing.





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"Re(1):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Wed 6 Jun 05:06post reply

whoah, those are some funky thumbs.


Reminds me of the South Park with the kungfu ninjas.





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"Re(1):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Wed 6 Jun 08:15post reply

don't like it. it's uh....weird.





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"Re(9):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Wed 6 Jun 10:52:post reply

quote:
If it offends you so badly that you would rather have nothing, then go ahead and have nothing.



But I don't have nothing, I have ST. Classics collection version of ST is good (hell, arcade version is almost perfect, vs mode has the odd sound issue and freezes, but nothing big) and anyway, an ST PCB isn't exactly pricey if you know where to look. I'm certainly not going to get it, especially if it ends up being a poor approximation, but if you delight in the HD, go ahead and and revel. I stand by the statement "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Wed 6 Jun 10:55]

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"Mmmmhh..." , posted Wed 6 Jun 15:09post reply

quote:
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


Well, it's not like they're replacing every ST copy in the world with the new HD one, or forcing you to buy it...
But anyway, I see this as exciting news, the graphics look gorgeous, and Udon seems to be putting a lot of love into this, let's hope they show something at E3.





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"Re(1):Mmmmhh..." , posted Wed 6 Jun 15:29post reply

quote:
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Well, it's not like they're replacing every ST copy in the world with the new HD one, or forcing you to buy it...


While this is true, the thread asked "What do you think?" And I stated what I thought about the whole project. I'd also say that the people who hope this is somehow going to "revive" SF (haven't heard too much of this line of thought here, more elsewhere) shouldn't hold their breath, but that isn't really at issue on this forum.





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"Akuma Image revealed" , posted Fri 8 Jun 02:52post reply

If anyone is interested it, Akuma just got posted on that site. Check it out

www.high-scoreonline.com





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"Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 02:53:post reply

Several Shots of Akuma

I wonder if they redrew each the shotos individually or they just worked on one shoto and did the appropriate color swaps and heads swaps and added Akuma's appropriate clothing.





[this message was edited by GekigangerV on Fri 8 Jun 02:53]

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"Re(1):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 08:53post reply

quote:
Several Shots of Akuma

I wonder if they redrew each the shotos individually or they just worked on one shoto and did the appropriate color swaps and heads swaps and added Akuma's appropriate clothing.

gouki looks bulkier than ken.. so im guessing, they redrew each shoto differently.. but im not sure on ken & ryu





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"Re(2):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 09:02post reply

quote:
Several Shots of Akuma
gouki looks bulkier than ken.. so im guessing, they redrew each shoto differently.. but im not sure on ken & ryu



Yeah, Akuma's arms don't look proportional at all!





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"Re(1):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 09:28post reply

quote:
Several Shots of Akuma

I wonder if they redrew each the shotos individually or they just worked on one shoto and did the appropriate color swaps and heads swaps and added Akuma's appropriate clothing.



i think i like these pics.
but why is gouki wearing sandals?





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"Re(2):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 10:03post reply

He always had sandals in SSF2X.
quote:
Several Shots of Akuma

I wonder if they redrew each the shotos individually or they just worked on one shoto and did the appropriate color swaps and heads swaps and added Akuma's appropriate clothing.


i think i like these pics.
but why is gouki wearing sandals?







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"Re(3):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 10:07post reply

quote:
He always had sandals in SSF2X.


no, he wore zouri's, which are shaped different from sandals





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"Re(4):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 10:10post reply

Whoops. Zouri's are sandals to me. Now please excuse me as I brought shame to my hosehold by committing suicide.
quote:
He always had sandals in SSF2X.

no, he wore zouri's, which are shaped different from sandals







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"Re(4):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 10:20post reply

Street Fighter HD is pretty cool as an idea. What I've seen so far though...

I feel like a wish was made with a monkey's paw.





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"Re(2):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 10:33post reply

quote:
Several Shots of Akuma

I wonder if they redrew each the shotos individually or they just worked on one shoto and did the appropriate color swaps and heads swaps and added Akuma's appropriate clothing.
gouki looks bulkier than ken.. so im guessing, they redrew each shoto differently.. but im not sure on ken & ryu



His gi's sleeves also seem to be a little different to me.
About the proportion of his arms, we'll have to wait and see his sprites in game to find it out. But I think he looks fine.





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"Re(3):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 13:03post reply

These drawings aren't so good, I can see Akuma's birth control patch!





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"Re(4):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 13:22post reply

So I'm retarded... what is this game exactly?

It's an HD version of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo with Sprites by UDON Studios (or in their style or something) I get that much... but why?

Is it a budget title? I can't imagine they expect people to pay $60 for a game they can get elsewhere for $20 or less even if it is prettier (although anatomically wrong)

Is it going to be 'arcade perfect'? like just putting the new sprites to the old coding and making the 'best' port possible?

Is for the 30th (or whatever, 20th?) Anniversy of SF? and in that case Why is it a remake? and why a remake of SSF2T? why not a remake of SFA3Upper+PSPedition or something since more characters equals more better right? Why not just mix and match characters from SFA, SF2, and SF3 games and call it "SF4"? Was a prettier version of SF2 really what people wanted to celebrate with?

... so I'm confused by this game very much so.






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"Re(5):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 13:27post reply

quote:
So I'm retarded... what is this game exactly?

It's an HD version of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo with Sprites by UDON Studios (or in their style or something) I get that much... but why?

Is it a budget title? I can't imagine they expect people to pay $60 for a game they can get elsewhere for $20 or less even if it is prettier (although anatomically wrong)

Is it going to be 'arcade perfect'? like just putting the new sprites to the old coding and making the 'best' port possible?

Is for the 30th (or whatever, 20th?) Anniversy of SF? and in that case Why is it a remake? and why a remake of SSF2T? why not a remake of SFA3Upper+PSPedition or something since more characters equals more better right? Why not just mix and match characters from SFA, SF2, and SF3 games and call it "SF4"? Was a prettier version of SF2 really what people wanted to celebrate with?

... so I'm confused by this game very much so.



It's budget. It's downloadable, it's supposed to be arcade perfect, and SF2 has way more "star power" than SFA.





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"Re(6):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 19:44post reply

quote:
It's budget. It's downloadable, it's supposed to be arcade perfect, and SF2 has way more "star power" than SFA.



Thank you, it all makes sense now (not really, but at least I know what I'm looking at)






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"Re(1):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 21:57post reply

quote:
Several Shots of Akuma


I fear I'll have to eat my own words. Ryu looked OK, Ken looked OK (except for the thumbs), but Gouki looks pretty bad! I'm not asking for perfect anatomical accurateness, but having arms twice as wide as his legs (as well as nearly as long) does look too deformed.

I hope it's only Gouki the one they're exaggerating so much, and still have hopes on this, but I have to admit that this Gouki seems ridiculous. Maybe he'll look better in movement?





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"Re(2):Akuma" , posted Fri 8 Jun 23:31post reply

The forshortening on his arms make no sense. Look at how his glove wraps around his left arm. It goes around the wrist on one side and waaaay up on the forearm on the other. Then look at the glove on the right arm. That one's drawn totally differently. It's drawn more correctly, but its still askew as if Akuma put on his gloves wrong.

This artist can't even make a picture look symmetrical.

The muscle placement is different on each arm, and the shading and line work is totally arbitrary. The interior of the figure has equal if not heavier line work than the outline.

This is not stylization, it's failure.

And i guarantee it will not look better in motion. If it looks stiff while it's still, it won't look any better animated.

I'm guessing that the artists drawing one frame at a time, instead of going back and fourth between frames to make sure that the lines displace correctly.

I bet there will be no secondary motion (like clothing swaying) and the lines will jump all over the place.

I'm guessing all this because all these sprites look like art school student drawings, not professional work.

I mean, it's cool that they are doing this at all. But I wish the artists had more self respect, or respect for the source because they are producing very second rate drawings.





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"Re(3):Akuma" , posted Sat 9 Jun 02:16:post reply

quote:
respect for the source


I don't know why even people that customize toys think Akuma have huge arms, because the source never had Akuma with oversized arms...
Or perhaps I'm forgetting they come from Japan, and that they are the most anatomically correct drawings ever... I mean, it's not like Akuma was a lazy palette swap of Ryu back in the day and it was easier to leave it like that instead of bulking him up like the official art depicted him...

But you are right, these stupid gaijins don't have respect for the source. Damn amerikans and their stupid amekomi style, I hope they rot in hell.





[this message was edited by ONSLAUGHT on Sat 9 Jun 02:18]

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"Re(4):Akuma" , posted Sat 9 Jun 02:36post reply

The changes to Akuma's win poses don't bother me too much since those don't affect how the game itself handles. Besides, the SF2 win poses have been a bit bland ever since Capcom got rid of those shrieking faces that Ryu and Ken used to have whenever they raised their arm in victory.

But since it looks like the people doing the repainting have figured out how to add some mass to the characters without disrupting the hitboxes I wonder if this means that Sagat's SF2 sprite will no longer be rail thin?





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"belch" , posted Sat 9 Jun 04:00post reply

quote:
those shrieking faces



People need to really replay the game to see that there was never any correct anatomy going on. Hell, all the side by side sprites that have been shown look just as crazy as the original. Also see the ONSY post. Now excuse me while I equip my rose colored glasses andNEXT TIME ON SMILEY ROLLEYES: THE THREAD WE DISSCUSS THE FAILURE OF UDON TO ACHIEVE ANATOMICAL PERFECTION OF ZANGIEF'S CROTCH





ok

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"Re(4):Akuma" , posted Sat 9 Jun 04:14post reply

quote:

But you are right, these stupid gaijins don't have respect for the source. Damn amerikans and their stupid amekomi style, I hope they rot in hell.



I'm pretty sure the guy who drew these is ASIAN-American so there's no excuse for that mess!!!

All kidding aside... I'm not asking for "correct" anatomy in a literal sense, I just want something that doesn't look wrong. What does "wrong" mean? Well, that's obviously too retardedly specific to explain on the internets... but you have to agree that at the very least, when the artist can't even draw two arms on the same character in a consistent manner, then something is "wrong."





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"Re(5):Akuma" , posted Sat 9 Jun 04:44post reply

quote:

But you are right, these stupid gaijins don't have respect for the source. Damn amerikans and their stupid amekomi style, I hope they rot in hell.


I'm pretty sure the guy who drew these is ASIAN-American so there's no excuse for that mess!!!





Isn't most of UDON Asian-Canadian?





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"Re(6):Akuma" , posted Sat 9 Jun 05:21post reply

quote:
I'm pretty sure the guy who drew these is ASIAN-American so there's no excuse for that mess!!!




Isn't most of UDON Asian-Canadian?




Yeah, and since Canada is, as far as I know, part of America (as Mexico, Brazil, Guatemala, Chile, etc. are), they are therefore Asian-American. :)


I still don't like Gouki's arms, despite being oversized like any other art from him as Onsy has showed. It is not because I don't like the "ame-komi" style, though. Ryu and Ken still look great to me.





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"Re(7):Akuma" , posted Sat 9 Jun 08:02post reply

Out of curiosity, is there anyone who likes Udon's comics, but does not like the sprites? Or vice-versa?





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"Re(1):belch" , posted Sat 9 Jun 08:29post reply

quote:
those shrieking faces


People need to really replay the game to see that there was never any correct anatomy going on. Hell, all the side by side sprites that have been shown look just as crazy as the original. Also see the ONSY post. Now excuse me while I equip my rose colored glasses andNEXT TIME ON SMILEY ROLLEYES: THE THREAD WE DISSCUSS THE FAILURE OF UDON TO ACHIEVE ANATOMICAL PERFECTION OF ZANGIEF'S CROTCH

Studio audience: \( ' o ' )/
\( ' o ' )/ \( ' A ' )/ \( ' O ' )/ WOOOOO

quote:
I'm pretty sure the guy who drew these is ASIAN-American so there's no excuse for that mess!!!

All kidding aside... I'm not asking for "correct" anatomy in a literal sense, I just want something that doesn't look wrong. What does "wrong" mean? Well, that's obviously too retardedly specific to explain on the internets... but you have to agree that at the very least, when the artist can't even draw two arms on the same character in a consistent manner, then something is "wrong."
Again, the comments about the characters being too bulky just flies right out the window when you look at the original artwork. And I'm sure no one complained about the Street Fighter anime movie... I remember at one point seeing Guile standing beside some other Interpol guys and his shoulders were about 6-7 heads wide. The only problem I had with that Akuma sprite where he's just standing there was that the foreshortening on his wrists looked a little weird... like the fist and the forearm weren't agreeing with each other properly (could just be how they drew the gloves). But other than that, he seemed fine anatomically. There's really not that much to nitpick over in terms of structure and anatomy and all of that other than a few broken thumbs and stuff like that.

That being said, I don't really like the style they're going for (just seems a little "trying too hard" to me). I'm against the game more because it just seems redundant. If people are so shallow that they can't appreciate an old game without updated graphics, then they need to return their gaming console to the store they bought it from and get back to watching MTV reality shows and doing donuts in their Hummer. As for the fans of the original just wanting a little facelift to their favorite game, I can totally appreciate that... but I just think that should come with a minor amount of new content at least (sort of like a remake... like how they handled the Resident Evil remake or something). The only issue would be if they could balance it properly or not, but from what I understood, there was a qualified SF2 balance expert in charge, so I don't see why that couldn't happen.





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"Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sat 9 Jun 10:19post reply

I like the new images and (until pointed out) haven't noticed the anatomical errors. They do need to fix those issues but on the flip side, CAPCOM should have done this a long time ago.

quote:
As for the fans of the original just wanting a little facelift to their favorite game, I can totally appreciate that... but I just think that should come with a minor amount of new content at least (sort of like a remake... like how they handled the Resident Evil remake or something). The only issue would be if they could balance it properly or not, but from what I understood, there was a qualified SF2 balance expert in charge, so I don't see why that couldn't happen.



True, there's alot they could do. Ranging from adding a few hidden characters from other SF games (crosses fingers for Rose, Alex, and I guess Sakura for the heck of it) to CAPCOM finally bucking up and determining an official winner for the SF2 tournament (which is actually doable with some careful thinking).





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"Re(2):Akuma" , posted Sat 9 Jun 11:52post reply

quote:

I hope it's only Gouki the one they're exaggerating so much, and still have hopes on this, but I have to admit that this Gouki seems ridiculous. Maybe he'll look better in movement?



Gouki always looked ridiculous. Almost every piece of art I've seen of him had huge arms.





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"so" , posted Sat 9 Jun 15:41post reply

How did Udon get picked for this anyways?

Is Street Fighter more popular in the US than Japan?

Just seems kinda odd. Capcom USA owns the street fighter license or something now, right?





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"Re(1):so" , posted Sat 9 Jun 17:13post reply

quote:
How did Udon get picked for this anyways?

Is Street Fighter more popular in the US than Japan?

Just seems kinda odd. Capcom USA owns the street fighter license or something now, right?



I'm not sure if street fighter is more popular in the US or Japan, but Capcom USA owns the street fighter license.





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"Re(3):Akuma" , posted Sat 9 Jun 18:07post reply

quote:

Gouki always looked ridiculous. Almost every piece of art I've seen of him had huge arms.



The problem I have with these images isn't that the arms are too big, it's just that the linework is not very good. The placement and weight of the lines does not make sense.

Like someone else pointed out earlier, these characters have muscles like Toguro 100% from YuYu Hakusho. Except that Toguro was supposed to be a grotesquely ripped monster while these are supposed to be human beings.

And it's not because it's American style either. If you want to see a good American artist who works in a Capcom influenced style, look at Ed McGuinness. He works exclussively for Marvel, in what is undoubtably a Superhero Comics style, yet I think his art is much more meaningfully influenced by Capcom (specifically Bengus) than anyone at Udon.

He has enough respect for himself to go out and learn how to draw properly, and he has enough respect for the source material to actually draw meaningful influence from it as opposed to just superficially copying it.

But all this aside. Something else just occured to me. These new updated sprites look like they are vectors. Perhaps that's why they have that unappealing jagged look to them that I don't like. Programs like Illustrator can be very difficult to work with, especially if you have to do thousands of drawings quickly in a short span of time.





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"Re(4):Akuma" , posted Sat 9 Jun 18:15post reply

quote:

But all this aside. Something else just occured to me. These new updated sprites look like they are vectors.



They aren't.





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"Re(2):so" , posted Sat 9 Jun 18:20post reply

quote:

Capcom USA owns the street fighter license.



Was there any press release about this? Or is this info based off of something Akiman said on his blog years ago?





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"Re(3):so" , posted Sat 9 Jun 19:11post reply

quote:

Capcom USA owns the street fighter license.


Was there any press release about this? Or is this info based off of something Akiman said on his blog years ago?



If you're doubting the validity of the claim, then play Capcom Fighting Jam. It says something like "Street Fighter characters copyright of Capcom USA" or whatever.

I wanted to say "Play the Japanese Capcom Fighting Jam", but that's kind of redundant.





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"Re(1):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sat 9 Jun 20:30post reply

quote:
I like the new images and (until pointed out) haven't noticed the anatomical errors.

A friend of mine made that thorough Gouki drawing critique: Link
Her humor is special, but she has good points.





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"Re(2):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sat 9 Jun 23:20post reply

quote:
I like the new images and (until pointed out) haven't noticed the anatomical errors.
A friend of mine made that thorough Gouki drawing critique: Link
Her humor is special, but she has good points.

LOL.. im posting this on my blog.
whats her name? just giving credit where its due. lolz





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"Re(3):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sat 9 Jun 23:40post reply

Glad you like it. :p
Her name's Momoko.





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"Re(2):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 02:27post reply

quote:

A friend of mine made that thorough Gouki drawing critique: Link
Her humor is special, but she has good points.



Your friend is brilliant.





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"Re(3):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 02:45:post reply

Your friend is brilliant. I am her man forever.

Does she have her own site or anything?


-doh!

How do i post edit?

LOL I dunno.





[this message was edited by nobinobita on Sun 10 Jun 02:46]

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"Re(2):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 04:34:post reply

quote:
I like the new images and (until pointed out) haven't noticed the anatomical errors.
A friend of mine made that thorough Gouki drawing critique: Link
Her humor is special, but she has good points.



lol, your friend pointed out so many things i didnt even notice.
i like her humor
I really wonder what Cammy and Chunli will look like.....





[this message was edited by Saiki on Sun 10 Jun 04:40]

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"Re(3):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 05:26post reply

quote:
I like the new images and (until pointed out) haven't noticed the anatomical errors.
A friend of mine made that thorough Gouki drawing critique: Link
Her humor is special, but she has good points.


Am I the only one who thought the thing about it being a Mega Drive/Genesis sprite was odd? >_>





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"Re(2):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 06:20post reply

quote:

A friend of mine made that thorough Gouki drawing critique: Link
Her humor is special, but she has good points.



I wish I could ask her for critiques. I've been studying anatomy for a while, but I can always learn more. Do you have any contact info?





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"Re(3):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 10:37post reply

quote:
lol, your friend pointed out so many things i didnt even notice.
i like her humor
I really wonder what Cammy and Chunli will look like.....



As long as they don't look manly-muscled, ugly or like sl**s, that's fine to me.

Fortunately, the people at UDON (at least the ones that do the comics) seem to really like these two ladies (especially Cammy, who they seem to think is the real main SF character), so I guess they will both look fine.





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"Re(1):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 11:13:post reply

I was wondering about this game. Are they redoing the music and voices also?

The game could use some remixed tracks and Guile definitely needs a more manly voice.

Even then, I probably won't play the game that much. Some friends and I played a bit last night and it just feels so unpolished compared to today's 2d fighters.

I know the system is the archetype that started it all, but it really is something that has been refined over the years. I really wish they would have just made a proper sequel to 3rd Strike.


edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Streetfighter_II_Turbo_HD_Remix





[this message was edited by HARO on Sun 10 Jun 11:16]

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"Re(2):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 11:39post reply

quote:
I like the new images and (until pointed out) haven't noticed the anatomical errors.
A friend of mine made that thorough Gouki drawing critique: Link
Her humor is special, but she has good points.



Wow, interesting. I wonder how her reactions would be if she saw Grappler Baki (scroll down for some good thumbnails).





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"Re(2):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 11:47:post reply

quote:

I know the system is the archetype that started it all, but it really is something that has been refined over the years. I really wish they would have just made a proper sequel to 3rd Strike.


What? ST is really still one of the best made and best balanced fighters out there. Everyone stands a chance, it's all about match-ups... even T. Hawk can get by in some matches. can't say the same for Sean or even really Twelve. Not that I'm ATTACKING 3S; it is hardly a favourite of mine, but people often praise it wildly without acknowledging the fact that it is really pretty flawed. I think the much stricter timing in ST puts a lot of modern players off. I definately still play it, but I'd take ST over it any day of the week. Of course there are some bloody horrible matchups in ST (Hawk vs. Dictator comes to mind, ha ha) so I guess it all comes down to me preferring Claw and O. Sagat dominating (but to a considerably lesser degree) than Yun, Chun, and Ken dominate in 3S. Of course, if you just genuinely prefer the way the SF 3 series plays over ST, then that's the way it is.

I guess this post is kind of OT now, as I'm not really addressing this HD remake, but I already said how I feel about it, don't really feel any need to repeat myself. Although I will also add on that considering Capcom USA's track record, I don't expect it to be a very faithful remake or even particularly competent, period.

Edit: Looking for a video of a very uneven matchup in 3S, Chun vs. Alex...
Edit edit: It's proving quite difficult to find one, as I guess few people are even willing to attempt it. Come to think of it, that's something else I miss about ST... everyone pretty much had to know at least two charas to survive, in case somebody counter picked you. In 3S, all you have to do is take Chun Li... unless you're really good, then you take Yun instead.

Edit edit edit: Does anyone else remember the vid I'm talking about? It was KSK vs... Ohnuki or Nuki or someone. KSK is the best Alex player in Japan, and he pretty much just sits and blocks because Chun outprioritizes EVERYTHING he can do... and they start laughing about it.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Sun 10 Jun 12:14]

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"Re(3):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 12:23:post reply

quote:
Edit edit edit: Does anyone else remember the vid I'm talking about? It was KSK vs... Ohnuki or Nuki or someone. KSK is the best Alex player in Japan, and he pretty much just sits and blocks because Chun outprioritizes EVERYTHING he can do... and they start laughing about it.



Is this it? If not, you might find it at KSK's site





[this message was edited by Professor on Sun 10 Jun 12:26]

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"Re(4):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 12:48:post reply

quote:


Is this it? If not, you might find it at KSK's site

That isn't it, but it's a good enough example. I don't feel like sorting through the torrents on his site, so I'm giving up otherwise, ha ha ha.


Edit:And on the ST side, an amazingly good Zangief (bottom tier) hammering other really good players. http://youtube.com/watch?v=aNC8K-ihtXw You'd never see Sean getting away with this. In the case of Twelve, there was this one guy named Yamazaki (If I recall, I never did keep up with 3S much, always preferred other stuff.. ST, Zero series, GG, KOF, etc.) who did well with Twelve in tournaments, and beat some higher tiers. But that was a very rare case. In ST, you see characters from lower tiers in the top 5 of tournaments frequently, and it isn't extremely surprising to see them winning. In 3s, it is.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Sun 10 Jun 13:29]

D`Cloud
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"Re(4):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 13:19post reply

quote:
I like the new images and (until pointed out) haven't noticed the anatomical errors.
A friend of mine made that thorough Gouki drawing critique: Link
Her humor is special, but she has good points.

Am I the only one who thought the thing about it being a Mega Drive/Genesis sprite was odd? >_>

cuz there is no megadrive/genesis gouki.





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hikarutilmitt
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"Re(5):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 15:18post reply

quote:
Am I the only one who thought the thing about it being a Mega Drive/Genesis sprite was odd? >_>
cuz there is no megadrive/genesis gouki.


Yep, that was my point.

I swear, I see so many people talk about playing SF2 at home and it's always the Genesis version. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person to ever have played (and far preferred) it on SNES.





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"Re(6):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Sun 10 Jun 15:55post reply

hikarutilmitt: That was humor, clearly, as the character in question is NOT Awesome Possum but Akuma. (If you've never played Awesome Possum, well, you don't want to)

EddyT: Asking her, I'll let you know...

"Also, tell Professor I said that although quite exaggerated and stylized, the way Itagaki draws muscles IS, as far as I am concerned, anatomically correct. Perhaps it doesn't look like it, but the artist definitely did quite a study and is very familiar with human muscle structure as everything seems to be at its place and you can tell what's what."





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"Re(3):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 17:29:post reply

I acknowledge the fact that Super Turbo is a good game. Instead of "unpolished", maybe I should have used the word "dated"?

I was thinking more along the lines of cosmetic stuff also. Meh, having a hard time articulating my thoughts here....

Compare the way someone gets dragon punched out of the air and hits the ground in 3rd strike and ST. It just feels a lot more "natural" in 3rd strike because of all the years they have had to tweak the physics and programming for the game.

I'm not going to get into an argument about whether or not 3rd Strike is a more balance game over ST (because I haven't played either game nearly enough on a competitive level). They were both definitely fun to play when they came out, but I would rather play the newest Guilty Gear over either of those old games.

Bottom line is I guess I wish they just made something new and polished (that Evolution game was terrible). I'm mainly a 3d fighter enthusiast myself (DOA not included). ^_^

edit: Man, I just read that art critique. It's cool to take pride in your eye as an anatomist, but at least stay grounded enough to acknowledge impressionist type stuff. I really doubt Udon was going for complete realism when he drew those pictures. That said, I personally like his designs. Maybe not the most anatomically correct models, but they definitely have a lot of "life" to them.





[this message was edited by HARO on Sun 10 Jun 17:35]

Stifu
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"Re(4):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 17:57post reply

quote:
edit: Man, I just read that art critique. It's cool to take pride in your eye as an anatomist, but at least stay grounded enough to acknowledge impressionist type stuff.

I thought it was pretty clear...

I'll sum up my thought in a quite simple way:

-Some things are stylized/exaggerated, because the designer decided to go for that style
-Some other things are not intended, oversights, flaws

Those SF character drawings are both stylized and flawed.





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"Re(5):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 18:31post reply

quote:

-Some things are stylized/exaggerated, because the designer decided to go for that style
-Some other things are not intended, oversights, flaws

Those SF character drawings are both stylized and flawed.



How can someone who hasn't formally studied anatomy do anything BUT impressionist (stylized) forms. It CAN'T be "flawed" for that very reason.

I'd respect the critique more if the person admitted she just hated the guy's style because she was a stickler for realism. :P





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"Re(6):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 18:37post reply

quote:
I'd respect the critique more if the person admitted she just hated the guy's style because she was a stickler for realism. :P

Then explain why she admitted the stuff the Professor posted was anatomically correct (ie: not "flawed"), while it's clearly nowhere near realistic.

(Have I been playing Phoenix Wright too much the last few days to point out contradictions so naturally ? j/k :p)





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"Re(7):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 18:44post reply

quote:

Then explain why she admitted the stuff the Professor posted was anatomically correct (ie: not "flawed"), while it's clearly nowhere near realistic.



...

I think you have been playing that game too much. :P





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"Re(7):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 19:22post reply

quote:
I'd respect the critique more if the person admitted she just hated the guy's style because she was a stickler for realism. :P
Then explain why she admitted the stuff the Professor posted was anatomically correct (ie: not "flawed"), while it's clearly nowhere near realistic.

(Have I been playing Phoenix Wright too much the last few days to point out contradictions so naturally ? j/k :p)

a "rob liefield art" is drawn with made up anatomy. meaning, instead of having 32 teeths, he'll have more than 50. like the akuma/gouki art, the elbow and the muscles aren't like a human's.





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"Re(3):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 10 Jun 23:53post reply

quote:
Edit: Looking for a video of a very uneven matchup in 3S, Chun vs. Alex...
Edit edit: It's proving quite difficult to find one, as I guess few people are even willing to attempt it. Come to think of it, that's something else I miss about ST... everyone pretty much had to know at least two charas to survive, in case somebody counter picked you. In 3S, all you have to do is take Chun Li... unless you're really good, then you take Yun instead.

Edit edit edit: Does anyone else remember the vid I'm talking about? It was KSK vs... Ohnuki or Nuki or someone. KSK is the best Alex player in Japan, and he pretty much just sits and blocks because Chun outprioritizes EVERYTHING he can do... and they start laughing about it.



Well, I don't play against other human players very much... but although I love playing as Chun-Li in 3S, is she really THAT good? Because every video that I find in YouTube shows her losing the fights against every other 3S character...





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"Re(5):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 00:39:post reply

quote:

I'll sum up my thought in a quite simple way:

-Some things are stylized/exaggerated, because the designer decided to go for that style
-Some other things are not intended, oversights, flaws

Those SF character drawings are both stylized and flawed.



A teacher of mine back in college said it best: You have to know the rules before you can break them. To the trained eye, it becomes extremely apparent when someone doesn't know the rules, and it can really hurt the credibility of an artist if they have no desire to improve.

In terms of an artist like Bengus and his earlier works with Vampire Hunter or SF Zero, the hands and feet are bigger than a normal person's... but the figures are still anatomically correct otherwise. The intent was to exaggerate, to make the figures look more dynamic.

The Akuma illustration from SFIIHD, the person who critiqued it had valid points about the shoulder being misaligned, the thumb (wow, that really is a bad mistake) and the elbows flaring out too much. The result is a disjointed figure... far from being a solid work of art no matter how much flair you put on that illustration.

I understand that when the game will be in motion, it will be harder to pinpoint errors like this... but at the same time I don't know if Capcom wants to represent a storied franchise with mistakes like this. It's obvious that Capcom Japan's artists are not supervising at all... they would have caught a lot of these mistakes.

On a similar note, I had drawn a schoolgirl Lilith illustration (from Vampire) about 5-6 years ago and had a similar mistake. I drew her from a 3/4 backside view holding a schoolbag, but I drew her elbows going inward instead of flaring outward like it was supposed to. Someone pointed out that mistake to me and it was definitely something I had remembered ever since.

Just a Person: Yes, Chun-Li is easily top tier in 3S... possibly the best character in the game, at least top 3. Her normal attacks have huge priority by taking up so much space, her 1000 burst kick super is easy to link to, her ground game is difficult to get around and she deals damage fairly well. Not to mention she is really quick.

Stifu: Thanks for asking. I appreciate it.





[this message was edited by EddyT on Mon 11 Jun 00:51]

nobinobita
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"Re(4):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 01:42post reply

quote:

Well, I don't play against other human players very much... but although I love playing as Chun-Li in 3S, is she really THAT good? Because every video that I find in YouTube shows her losing the fights against every other 3S character...



When people talk about balance in a fighting game, it's usually at the highest level of play. It has been found after years of competitive play that the best characters in Third Strike are undoubtably Chunli (massive priority, easy super combos), Ken (all around good) and Yun (if you are good at combos). But this is only if you train yourself and play the character with flawless execution.

Competitive play is awesome. It's a great rush, but most fans never get to that point.

For the rest of us normal folk just playing with our friends Third Strike is incredibly balanced, diverse and fun and you can win with anyone.





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"Re(5):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 02:03post reply

quote:

Well, I don't play against other human players very much... but although I love playing as Chun-Li in 3S, is she really THAT good?

Yes. Trust me, fighting even a mediocre Chun Li with, say Hugo (whom I primarily use) is many times more irritating than fighting even a very good Dudley or Urien (although they are pretty annoying too, ha ha ha.)





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"Re(5):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 02:12post reply

quote:
When people talk about balance in a fighting game, it's usually at the highest level of play. It has been found after years of competitive play that the best characters in Third Strike are undoubtably Chunli (massive priority, easy super combos), Ken (all around good) and Yun (if you are good at combos). But this is only if you train yourself and play the character with flawless execution.



I'd say Makoto also squeeks her way into the top as well





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"Re(6):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 03:36post reply

quote:

Well, I don't play against other human players very much... but although I love playing as Chun-Li in 3S, is she really THAT good?
Yes. Trust me, fighting even a mediocre Chun Li with, say Hugo (whom I primarily use) is many times more irritating than fighting even a very good Dudley or Urien (although they are pretty annoying too, ha ha ha.)



hahaha. everytime my friends want to play 3S I pick Chun-li just so we'll play something else, because all I do is piss them off. her fierce punch has ridiculous priority (both of them). She's too overpowered overall.





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"Re(5):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 04:19post reply

quote:
When people talk about balance in a fighting game, it's usually at the highest level of play. It has been found after years of competitive play that the best characters in Third Strike are undoubtably Chunli (massive priority, easy super combos), Ken (all around good) and Yun (if you are good at combos). But this is only if you train yourself and play the character with flawless execution.

Competitive play is awesome. It's a great rush, but most fans never get to that point.

For the rest of us normal folk just playing with our friends Third Strike is incredibly balanced, diverse and fun and you can win with anyone.


The exception to this rule being cases like Chun Li, where she has a clear advantage at any level of play. Ken does as well, though to a slightly lesser extent. Yun is VERY good, but he's not necessarily unbalanced good, since you have to really work with him to get the most out of him. Part of a character being unbalanced is also their difficulty to learn and use effectively.





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"Re(6):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 05:16:post reply

quote:

The exception to this rule being cases like Chun Li, where she has a clear advantage at any level of play. Ken does as well, though to a slightly lesser extent. Yun is VERY good, but he's not necessarily unbalanced good, since you have to really work with him to get the most out of him. Part of a character being unbalanced is also their difficulty to learn and use effectively.

Indeed; this is arguably why I don't like 3S very much, because she is so good AND is essentially a lazy player's chara.
Edit: Although truth be told, even though I don't like it much, it IS a well made fighting game. I also do admittedly like a number of very broken fighters (SS4 comes to mind)... I guess it just comes down to taste. I also never play SS 4 competitively anymore, as there isn't any comp, but people are always up for some for fun at events. Which again reminds me, anyone in Maryland or Virginia, come to C3, play me in some TRF 2 or KOF or something.. or join in the ST tourney, haw haw.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Mon 11 Jun 05:21]

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"Re(6):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 07:24post reply

quote:

Yun is VERY good, but he's not necessarily unbalanced good, since you have to really work with him to get the most out of him. Part of a character being unbalanced is also their difficulty to learn and use effectively.



I agree that it takes an amount of skill to use him to the full potential... but if you master Yun, you can really do damage to anyone in the game. With Genei-Jin, he has the ability to capitalize on most mistakes or whiffs and he will make you pay with half your life bar. I've always felt that anything like a Custom Combo in Alpha 2 (where you can create your own combo in a limited amount of time) is always going to be exploited in some fashion, and Genei-Jin is no different. This is compounded by the fact that Genei-Jin is so easy to charge up... so you could easily use the super twice in one match.

I can see a great Yun giving Chun-Li fits, but a good Ken would definitely keep a Yun at bay with his ability to shoryuken him out of his air moves and Ken's superior ground game. But then Ken has problems with Chun-Li's ground game... it's like a bizarre love triangle for the top tier of 3rd Strike.

And yes, Makoto can be very annoying due to her high priority normals, her karakusa mind-games and her insane ability to build stun meter.





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"Re(7):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 07:39:post reply

EddyT: how/where do I send you her mail address ?

Edit: Gouki critique, episode 2: Link





[this message was edited by Stifu on Mon 11 Jun 07:43]

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"Re(8):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 08:40post reply

mail = eddytang (at) cox dot net

Thank you Stifu.





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"Re(8):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 08:56post reply

quote:
EddyT: how/where do I send you her mail address ?

Edit: Gouki critique, episode 2: Link

what!? no yiffy bunny? lol





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nobinobita
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"Re(8):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 09:24post reply

quote:
EddyT: how/where do I send you her mail address ?



Hey, could i get that contact info too? Your friend is building up a fan following.

my email is "rchais20" at "student.scad.edu"





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"Re(9):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 11 Jun 09:41post reply

Guilty Gear!

Accent Core!





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"Re(8):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Tue 12 Jun 00:33post reply

quote:
EddyT: how/where do I send you her mail address ?

Edit: Gouki critique, episode 2: Link


LoL at two left feet!





Just a Person
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"Zangief's portrait" , posted Wed 13 Jun 03:35post reply

It's in Portuguese, but the source is quite reliable (the people who write in this website are the same ones who make the Brazilian version of EGM).

Translating the news:

Look how Zangief will be in the new Street Fighter

You have already seen Akuma, Ken and Ryu. Now it's Zangief's time.The picture below will be the portrait of the Russian fighter in Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix, the completely redesigned version of the classic fighting game that will be released to Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3in the end of the year.

Producer Rey Jimenez commented on the last updates, and sent a message to the fans of the series: "I'd like to say that Akuma was intentionally designed big/tall and strong, because he should be bigger than Ryu. Besides, your favorite female fighters will NOT look like T.Hawk with a wig". In other words, we'll have beautiful, feminine but deadly female fighters!

Take a look at the bearded guy:
(shows Zangief's portrait sketch)

OK, so Chun-Li and Cammy will not look manly. That's a good thing. Zangief's portrait looks nice, too (kinda remembers me of the Battle Royale manga, but I don't know why), but they could release a version with colors instead of this black-and-white one.

And if Akuma was redesigned bigger than Ryu, that means he's not just a palette swap (although they will still share a lot of common moves...). Could it mean that Ryu and Ken will not be palette swaps of each other, either??





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"Re(1):Zangief's portrait" , posted Wed 13 Jun 09:03post reply

quote:

Producer Rey Jimenez commented on the last updates, and sent a message to the fans of the series: "I'd like to say that Akuma was intentionally designed big/tall and strong, because he should be bigger than Ryu. Besides, your favorite female fighters will NOT look like T.Hawk with a wig". In other words, we'll have beautiful, feminine but deadly female fighters!


Curses, I was looking forward to a hulking Chun Li...and even though Akuma is bigger than Ryu doesn't justify the incorrect anatomy. Zangief's portrait is okay, but I'd make his eye slightly bigger with a meaner expression.





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"Re(1):Zangief's portrait" , posted Wed 13 Jun 09:10post reply

As long as his knee hair makes a perfect transition, I really don't care how Zangief comes out.

(The portrait is nice.)





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"Re(7):Umm...Pretty colors?" , posted Wed 13 Jun 09:19post reply

quote:
"Also, tell Professor I said that although quite exaggerated and stylized, the way Itagaki draws muscles IS, as far as I am concerned, anatomically correct. Perhaps it doesn't look like it, but the artist definitely did quite a study and is very familiar with human muscle structure as everything seems to be at its place and you can tell what's what."



I always wondered if Baki art was anatomically correct, please tell thanks to her!

The second Gouki critique PNG file is pretty interesting too. Four fingered feets reminds me of Albatross18/Panga.





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"Re(2):Zangief's portrait" , posted Wed 13 Jun 09:32post reply

quote:
Curses, I was looking forward to a hulking Chun Li...


I still wonder whether they will try to make Chun Li look more like her SF3 incarnation, or stay truer to her SF2 proportions.





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"Re(3):Zangief's portrait" , posted Wed 13 Jun 10:26post reply

The Zangief portrait looks nice. Too bad they got rid of that wrestling tank top that only appeared in his winning and losing shots.





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"Re(3):Zangief's portrait" , posted Wed 13 Jun 11:13post reply

quote:
I still wonder whether they will try to make Chun Li look more like her SF3 incarnation, or stay truer to her SF2 proportions.



Zangief, ken and gouki look closer to their zero and strike appereances; so there is no reason to think that chun li nor any other character will look like the old days.





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"Re(1):Zangief's portrait" , posted Wed 13 Jun 18:29post reply

quote:
It's in Portuguese, but the source is quite reliable (the people who write in this website are the same ones who make the Brazilian version of EGM).



You're gonna link to the Brazilian EGM's coverage of the image when the blog's had the same image several days earlier?

http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/06/08/first_zangief_art






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"Re(2):Zangief's portrait" , posted Wed 13 Jun 21:36post reply

quote:
It's in Portuguese, but the source is quite reliable (the people who write in this website are the same ones who make the Brazilian version of EGM).


You're gonna link to the Brazilian EGM's coverage of the image when the blog's had the same image several days earlier?

http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/06/08/first_zangief_art



You're right... I forgot to look at the blog. I need to check it more often to get these news...





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"Re(3):Zangief's portrait" , posted Fri 15 Jun 06:01post reply

Blog Update

No new character was shown. Just the steps taken to update the graphics and confirmation that there will be no updated voices or music.





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"Re(4):Zangief's portrait" , posted Fri 15 Jun 06:53post reply

quote:
Blog Update

No new character was shown. Just the steps taken to update the graphics and confirmation that there will be no updated voices or music.

Yeah, more crazy anatomy critiques are sure to follow... Ken's heel looks bizarre. Some of their problems are just stemming from trying to add too much definition to places where it's impossible... like having muscular insteps or something. DR SCHOLLS WORKOUT INSERTS

I thought this was hilarious:
Akumas mouth is NOT missing. It is part of one of his winning poses where he is making an O face. It will make more sense when you see it in motion.

Shows how much people are paying attention or just aren't familiar with the source material.

The fact that they're not touching the audio makes the project reek of superficiality... and notice once again, that buzzword is being used: "re-imagined." Approach with caution if you care about the backstory at all.





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"Re(5):Zangief's portrait" , posted Fri 15 Jun 10:21:post reply

They're not touching the audio for two reasons: 1) improving the audio over the low-quality source would take up a lot of space (when they already have a very strict space limit imposed on them by Microsoft) and 2) this is America. Udon aside, let's not go crying for more weaboo developments in the game's voice acting.





[this message was edited by Gojira on Fri 15 Jun 10:23]

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"Re(5):Zangief's portrait" , posted Fri 15 Jun 10:37:post reply

The new Ken sprite: That shoulder is not looking good. I know for a fact that Stifu's friend is going to have a field day with that shoulder sporting imaginary muscles. Deltoids are not made the way the artist drew it. It's over-exaggerated and it doesn't have three heads like the triceps. It's just a heart-shaped muscle that attaches to the clavicle in front, the scapula in the back... and in between the bicep and triceps on the outer side of the arm.

There's also a muscle that would actually overlap that exposed bicep... it's called a supinator. When the lower arm rotates (pronates) towards the body, the supinator follows the thumb side as it rotates. The long supinator is located on the outer side of the arm, and the bicep is actually a little more inward than the supinator. It's pretty obvious that Ken's lower arm is twisting inward at it's max point, and there's no way that bicep should overlap the supinator in that position. Forget style... this is not good anatomy sense. I'm sure Stifu's friend would agree on these two points.

These drawings may look "okay" or better to a lot of people who don't study anatomy but it looked weird to me almost immediately. It's kinda shocking how many common anatomy mistakes this artist is making... where did they get this guy from? To be blunt, this person needs to go to school and learn more anatomy. He/she has got potential, but there is no way they will be respected out in the art field with all these glaring mistakes.





[this message was edited by EddyT on Fri 15 Jun 10:52]

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"Como chingan..." , posted Fri 15 Jun 10:55post reply

quote:
learn more anatomy.


Wow! Are we going to post EVERY anatomical error of EVERY sprite?? I mean, you guys know the anatomy is fucked up, let it die already, don't buy the game and get over it.
The first time was funny and novel, but now it looks like a stupid trend... bitching for the sake of bitching.





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"Re(1):Como chingan..." , posted Fri 15 Jun 11:31:post reply

quote:
Wow! Are we going to post EVERY anatomical error of EVERY sprite??

Heheheh, I hope that's exactly what happens...with 120+ posts for just two charas, I think we could break 1000 if everyone hasn't killed themselves already.

Then again, this more or less started as a board of Capcom and SNK fans as I understand, so massive grumbling on this pretty pathetic remake seems fair even if I don't have the skill to do so. I don't think the country origin of the artists or Japanophilia are having a big influence on grumbling, this new stuff is just...not so good.

edit:
In MY remake claw Balrog will be two feet tall, Chun Li will have white underwear, and dictator Vega won't have any pants.





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Fri 15 Jun 11:33]

EddyT
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"Re(1):Como chingan..." , posted Fri 15 Jun 12:41post reply

quote:
Wow! Are we going to post EVERY anatomical error of EVERY sprite?? I mean, you guys know the anatomy is fucked up, let it die already, don't buy the game and get over it.
The first time was funny and novel, but now it looks like a stupid trend... bitching for the sake of bitching.



Sorry, I won't bitch anymore. You are right about it not being funny (I never thought it was from the beginning), and I wasn't trying to be humorous about my remarks in my last post.

It is just hard for me to see something like this because I studied art and anatomy for a living... and I wish I had an opportunity to draw for a company like Capcom. I don't know how to explain how I feel... I won't say "I could do better than that guy" because I'm still learning new things all the time.

I guess I was more upset because I love Street Fighter a lot, and seeing that they were accepting art that had so many mistakes was really shocking to me. I was hoping they would treat the franchise a little better than that.

Anyway, I don't want to cause any more trouble. Sorry about that.





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"Re(2):Como chingan..." , posted Fri 15 Jun 13:07post reply

quote:

Anyway, I don't want to cause any more trouble. Sorry about that.


Nah, don't worry, I was just acting like a fag, as usual.
But I see your point and understand it, I just think there must be another approach to this "problem".
I am too, a big Street Fighter fan and I'm very excited with this project. I didn't notice the problems with the anatomy until pointed by you guys, but now that I know about them, well, I don't give a shit, I'm still excited about it. To me, rehashed Street Fighter is better than no Street Fighter; if the game turns to be shit, then no problem, I can still go to the arcades and play it, I can boot one of the many compilations Capcom has released and play it... it's not like a new (bad) game is going to lessen my love for SF.
For example, I think the 3D Zeldas are utter Shit, but I never rant about them because I choose not to play them, I still hold precious memories of A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening and I am sad because we'll probably never see another Zelda like those, but hey, now most people think the newer Zeldas are the best thing ever, to each their own more power to them.
Perhaps this doesn't make any sense, but I just wanted to say it.





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"Re(1):Como chingan..." , posted Fri 15 Jun 13:14post reply

the fact that they only had to trace it and still deviate from the anatomy is mind boggling.

"basic detail" part looks really flat. it has so many details and yet it still looks flat.

four fingers on his feet.

some guy from the blog "josh" corrected the arm. theres more to correct but it'll cost more $$ for capcom http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/tbananna/armfix.jpg

so many idiots are posting at the capcom blog.





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"Re(3):Como chingan..." , posted Fri 15 Jun 14:04post reply

quote:

Nah, don't worry, I was just acting like a fag, as usual.
But I see your point and understand it, I just think there must be another approach to this "problem".
I am too, a big Street Fighter fan and I'm very excited with this project. I didn't notice the problems with the anatomy until pointed by you guys, but now that I know about them, well, I don't give a shit, I'm still excited about it. To me, rehashed Street Fighter is better than no Street Fighter; if the game turns to be shit, then no problem, I can still go to the arcades and play it, I can boot one of the many compilations Capcom has released and play it... it's not like a new (bad) game is going to lessen my love for SF.
For example, I think the 3D Zeldas are utter Shit, but I never rant about them because I choose not to play them, I still hold precious memories of A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening and I am sad because we'll probably never see another Zelda like those, but hey, now most people think the newer Zeldas are the best thing ever, to each their own more power to them.
Perhaps this doesn't make any sense, but I just wanted to say it.



I'll always hold old memories of playing Street Fighter with friends and total strangers back when arcades were cool. I remember playing "Rainbow Edition" (the pirated board of Turbo SF where you could jump and keep throwning air hadoukens and Guile threw several sonic booms at once) at some total stranger's house with some friends, thinking back then "oh my god this setup must have cost a lot but this is the coolest thing ever". I made many friends all over the United States playing Street Fighter, and I still play occasionally online on XBox Live via 3rd Strike. I even watch Street Fighter the live action movie once in a while, bad puns and all. When I get to Japan, I plan to frequent arcades and try to get better at SF, even though the games are at least 7-12 years old.

You made a great point, Onslaught... thanks. =)

PS: Original Legend of Zelda for NES is still my favorite out of all the Zeldas. I came close to beating both quests without using a sword of any kind.





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"Re(3):Como chingan..." , posted Fri 15 Jun 14:29post reply

quote:



Nah, don't worry, I was just acting like a fag, as usual.
=



yup, that about sums up this thread.





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"KAAANEEEEEDAAAAAAAAAAAA HELP MEEEE" , posted Fri 15 Jun 15:27post reply

quote:
the fact that they only had to trace it and still deviate from the anatomy is mind boggling.

I think that's why people keep coming back to the anatomy. They're essentially doing a trace job and aren't even really doing it right. "Okay, time to draw a leg... I'll just trace the outline and make a twisted mass of meat inside. DONE!" And I'm sure you'll see in the corrected version in the link that the original Capcom musculature pretty much matches the correction, while the Udon one is a Frankenstein mess.





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"Re(1):KAAANEEEEEDAAAAAAAAAAAA HELP MEEEE" , posted Fri 15 Jun 16:34post reply

Ken feels like one of those survival horror games where the enemies are lumps of flesh.





Just a Person
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"Re(2):KAAANEEEEEDAAAAAAAAAAAA HELP MEEEE" , posted Fri 15 Jun 21:30post reply

quote:
The game will not have any new characters or secrets that the original did not have. We will, however, be re-working the endings. We will not change the main content/message of the endings, but the writers at Udon will be re-imagining them to offer another angle or take on the original endings. Im not going to spoil anything about them, but itll be pretty damn cool for those that know the old endings.



That looks interesting, and may provide some more background to the SF plot (considering, of course, Capcom accepts these "new" endings as canon.

Then again, considering all their love with Cammy, I wouldn't doubt if the endings say she was the winner of the tournament... and as much as I love Cammy (yes, Eric, I DO like her), that would be very lame to me...





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"Re(6):Zangief's portrait" , posted Sat 16 Jun 02:50post reply

quote:
They're not touching the audio for two reasons... Udon aside, let's not go crying for more weaboo developments in the game's voice acting.



Meh, that seems like the whole point of this project though. Might as well give the game a complete face lift and update all the audio as well.

Guess it doesn't matter though, probably "wow" at the new stuff for a couple of hours and then realize it's the same game I stopped playing years ago.


This thread rules. Anatomy for the win.





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"Guile" , posted Sat 16 Jun 05:54:post reply

Link Here


The face doesn't seem as faithful to the Turbo Revival art as Ken and Ryu's did.





[this message was edited by GekigangerV on Sat 16 Jun 05:55]

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"Re(1):Guile" , posted Sat 16 Jun 06:04post reply

quote:
Link Here


The face doesn't seem as faithful to the Turbo Revival art as Ken and Ryu's did.

I just think it's funny that there's like, one post there that's not just ejaculating all over the place about the sprite. It really doesn't look as clear as the other trace jobs have been.





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"one more time, with feeling" , posted Sat 16 Jun 06:38post reply

*FLEX*





ok

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"Re(2):Guile" , posted Sat 16 Jun 07:51post reply

quote:

I just think it's funny that there's like, one post there that's not just ejaculating all over the place about the sprite.
HAHAHAHahhaaahahARRGGGHHH it's amazing what some people would rather have than money, or than nothing. And double laughs at that great quote you found, Just a Person, there's that damnable "re-imagine" word again, codeword of BS champions.





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"Re(2):Guile" , posted Sat 16 Jun 08:35post reply

quote:
I just think it's funny that there's like, one post there that's not just ejaculating all over the place about the sprite. It really doesn't look as clear as the other trace jobs have been.


There are a few negatives, at least now.

More entertaining to me is that some are calling it the best yet and saying how great the detail is, while some (who are still being positive) are saying it isn't as good or as detailed as the other characters.





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"Re(3):KAAANEEEEEDAAAAAAAAAAAA HELP MEEEE" , posted Sat 16 Jun 09:12post reply

on the endings...

the Udon stories are pretty different from the little story you get from the SF games, like say with R. Mika and Zangief.


Checkin' out that Guile now...

hmmm

must have been awkward getting that tattoo.





Burning Ranger
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"Re(1):Guile" , posted Sat 16 Jun 10:25post reply

quote:
Link Here


The face doesn't seem as faithful to the Turbo Revival art as Ken and Ryu's did.



For some reason, I'm liking Guile more than the Shotos we've seen. Now I just want to see Chun and Cammy.





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"Re(2):Guile" , posted Sat 16 Jun 12:16post reply

quote:
I just think it's funny that there's like, one post there that's not just ejaculating all over the place about the sprite.


Has anyone ever ejaculated over Rey's work? Other than himself?





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"Re(1):Guile" , posted Sat 16 Jun 12:56post reply

quote:
Link Here


The face doesn't seem as faithful to the Turbo Revival art as Ken and Ryu's did.



It's gonna be so weird when THAT says *SONICBOOM* in the high pitched announcers voice.

... you know, even though I'm not liking this game so much (I'm fine it exist and all, just good look getting me to pay more then a dollar to download it) I learned something: Sprites can be drawn by hand, I always thought they where pixel art or something.






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"Re(2):Guile" , posted Sat 16 Jun 13:00post reply

quote:
It's gonna be so weird when THAT says *SONICBOOM* in the high pitched announcers voice.

That's exactly why they need to do something with the audio. And by that, I mean something even as simple as pasting in Alpha 3's audio or something. That would work fine.





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"Re(3):Guile" , posted Sun 17 Jun 04:47post reply

As someone pointed out on that blog, the camouflage pattern doesn't match from one frame to another... as you can clearly see from the bright marks.
That seems to confirm the worry people had about the new frames not properly matching in motion, as they are redrawn one by one but not obviously checked back to make sure things look right when animated... For now, at least, as they still have the time to fix everything if they really wanted to (which, let's face it, happens very rarely).





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"Re(4):Guile" , posted Sun 17 Jun 04:58post reply

quote:
That seems to confirm the worry people had about the new frames not properly matching in motion, as they are redrawn one by one but not obviously checked back to make sure things look right when animated... For now, at least, as they still have the time to fix everything if they really wanted to (which, let's face it, happens very rarely).

Heh heh heh. SURPRISE

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they knew nothing about animation at all and have no consistency in shadow and detail patterns... muscles travelling all over the place and stuff like that... But yeah, we'd just have to see how it turns out.





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"Re(5):Guile" , posted Sun 17 Jun 05:00post reply

Duuude, this could end up as the most hilarious doujin game ever. As long as the guy who liked Mugen too much doesn't start up again here, I'm surprisingly entertained.





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a beholder
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"Re(2):Guile" , posted Sun 17 Jun 06:42post reply

quote:
Link Here
I learned something: Sprites can be drawn by hand, I always thought they where pixel art or something.



Here's a website with a great step by step of sprite art.

http://www.derekyu.com/extras/pixel01.html

basically large ones begin with a sketch. Clean up in photoshop or something. Final touches are done pixel by pixel.


I wonder how Sagat's muscles will turn out.

Udon also released a message that said Chun Li and Cammy would not be muscular beasts, but properly sexy.





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"Re(3):Guile" , posted Sun 17 Jun 07:42post reply

Anyway... That Ken arm fix is good, and I hope it comes to Udon's attention. After all, images say more than words... and rather clearly shows it's possible to make their stuff better.
The fact this fixed version is clearly much closer to the original arm also shows Udon should stop trying to radically change what isn't broken, in my opinion... Taking some freedom from the original source isn't obviously a bad thing, but it can be, as that Resident Evil Ken arm shows (it looks like it must be painful for Ken, too)...





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"Re(4):Guile" , posted Sun 17 Jun 10:41post reply

Really, they just need one sensible person overlooking the project. Someone to say "look, that isn't a muscle. Look, people have 5 fingers. Look, his hand is way bigger here. FIX IT."

If that was the case, I think this would turn out really nice.

Not redoing the sound is ridiculous. There's no (good) excuse for that.

Also, maybe we should make a new thread for this a some point. It's getting irritatingly long.





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"Re(5):Guile" , posted Sun 17 Jun 10:58post reply

quote:
Also, maybe we should make a new thread for this a some point. It's getting irritatingly long.

LONGTHREAD





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"Re(2):Guile" , posted Sun 17 Jun 13:53post reply

quote:
I learned something: Sprites can be drawn by hand, I always thought they where pixel art or something.


Old SNK dot artists disappeared into otaku closet





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"Re(4):Guile" , posted Sun 17 Jun 22:42:post reply

quote:
Anyway... That Ken arm fix is good, and I hope it comes to Udon's attention. After all, images say more than words... and rather clearly shows it's possible to make their stuff better.
The fact this fixed version is clearly much closer to the original arm also shows Udon should stop trying to radically change what isn't broken, in my opinion... Taking some freedom from the original source isn't obviously a bad thing, but it can be, as that Resident Evil Ken arm shows (it looks like it must be painful for Ken, too)...



EDIT: I saw that picture just now... that was a good edit. The supinator and deltoid look much better.

I heard that the game is releasing sometime next month, so I'm afraid to say that it may be too late for changes, even if they wanted to change it.





[this message was edited by EddyT on Sun 17 Jun 22:53]

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"Re(5):Guile" , posted Mon 18 Jun 05:15post reply

quote:
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they knew nothing about animation at all and have no consistency in shadow and detail patterns...


I bet that's TOTALLY gonna be the case, I really can't wait to see it in motion...


... HD SF has got me thinking: Who owns rights to those "Super Star Wars" games? What with it being Star War's 30th aniversy someone (competent) needs to redraw that game in the "Clone Wars" style and re-release them, I'd gladly pay $60 for that!






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a beholder
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"Re(5):Guile" , posted Mon 18 Jun 07:24post reply

quote:
Anyway... That Ken arm fix is good, and I hope it comes to Udon's attention. After all, images say more than words... and rather clearly shows it's possible to make their stuff better.
The fact this fixed version is clearly much closer to the original arm also shows Udon should stop trying to radically change what isn't broken, in my opinion... Taking some freedom from the original source isn't obviously a bad thing, but it can be, as that Resident Evil Ken arm shows (it looks like it must be painful for Ken, too)...


EDIT: I saw that picture just now... that was a good edit. The supinator and deltoid look much better.

I heard that the game is releasing sometime next month, so I'm afraid to say that it may be too late for changes, even if they wanted to change it.



Ken edit? where is that? Doesn't seem to be a link here.





Baines
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"Re(6):Guile" , posted Mon 18 Jun 08:38post reply

quote:
Ken edit? where is that? Doesn't seem to be a link here.


It is a link inside a reply by someone named Josh in one of the blog posts.

The comment:
http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/06/14/how_they_do_it_sf_hd_remix#c687

The image:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/tbananna/armfix.jpg





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"Chun-Li defeat portrait" , posted Sat 23 Jun 06:47post reply

Link Here


Pretty basic, but thats OK.

The color limit for the sprites went from 16 to 128. I wonder if any of the characters will go over 40 colors though. I am sure a lot of the new colors are going into the skin tone and hair.

They also mention changing the pitch of the character voices.

It looks like the input on Guile has had some effect and they are looking into him.

I hope they show some updated stages soon.





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"Re(1):Chun-Li defeat portrait" , posted Sat 23 Jun 08:55post reply

quote:
Link Here

That's kind of what I expected out of their animation... paper cutouts and Flashy vectory kinds of stuff instead of actual full animation. They said there's still work to be done, but I really doubt they're gonna add much in the way of secondary animation or anything like that and just leave it looking like web animation.





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"Re(1):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sat 23 Jun 12:05post reply

I'm curious to what Japanese SF fan reaction is, if there is any.


I think somebody posting here said they were Japanese.





Just a Person
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"Re(2):Chun-Li defeat portrait" , posted Sat 23 Jun 12:08post reply

quote:
Link Here
That's kind of what I expected out of their animation... paper cutouts and Flashy vectory kinds of stuff instead of actual full animation. They said there's still work to be done, but I really doubt they're gonna add much in the way of secondary animation or anything like that and just leave it looking like web animation.



Awww... poor Chun-Li... I'm glad she doesn't seem to be bruised or injured, but it's sad watching her crying.

Don't worry, miss. Whoever did that to you will get hurt when I play this game. REALLY hurt.





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a beholder
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"*barf*" , posted Sat 23 Jun 12:34post reply

oh shit

I just realised something


is Udon gonna redraw the vomit?


What will vomit look like in HD

Will it be customized for each character's diet?





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"Re(2):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sat 23 Jun 13:36post reply

quote:
I'm curious to what Japanese SF fan reaction is, if there is any.



I haven't read in detail, but I've seen a lot of "they're making it America, so we probably won't get it over here" complaints.





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"Chun-Li hand smelling portrait" , posted Sat 23 Jun 14:45post reply

Her hand must smell very good!





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"Re(2):Chun-Li defeat portrait" , posted Sat 23 Jun 18:19post reply

quote:
Link Here
That's kind of what I expected out of their animation... paper cutouts and Flashy vectory kinds of stuff instead of actual full animation. They said there's still work to be done, but I really doubt they're gonna add much in the way of secondary animation or anything like that and just leave it looking like web animation.



I don't know whether to say it's an improvement or not. The movement is a little awkward because I'm sure necks don't bend quite like that. But even so it doesn't bother me since the original was just a jerky mess of 2-frame animations anyway.





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"Re(3):Chun-Li defeat portrait" , posted Sat 23 Jun 21:21post reply

quote:

I don't know whether to say it's an improvement or not. The movement is a little awkward because I'm sure necks don't bend quite like that. But even so it doesn't bother me since the original was just a jerky mess of 2-frame animations anyway.



I didn't remember the original animating at all. Shows what I know.

That's a pretty awkward animation though. Do it yourself and see how it feels/looks. I'm not arguing art here (although the ear looks a bit odd), I'm just starting to think there's something wrong with their brains.





Just a Person
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"Re(4):Chun-Li defeat portrait" , posted Sat 23 Jun 23:47post reply

quote:

I didn't remember the original animating at all. Shows what I know.



From what I remember, the defeat portrait is animated just in the "Continue?" screen.





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"Re(3):Chun-Li defeat portrait" , posted Sun 24 Jun 03:19post reply

quote:
I don't know whether to say it's an improvement or not. The movement is a little awkward because I'm sure necks don't bend quite like that. But even so it doesn't bother me since the original was just a jerky mess of 2-frame animations anyway.


In the original, she looks like she is upset. Crying or sniffling or something.

In the Udon one, she is smelling her fingers and being disgusted by it. The animation is just wrong. The hand is in a poor pose and she shouldn't be tilting it towards her nose only to pull so far away when it gets close. (And from the angle, either she is sniffing her pinky or her hand likely never even touches her nose, much less her face.)

This really looks like the work of someone who can do a decent still shot, but doesn't know how to combine the elements into an animation. It looks like her hand (and wrist) were drawn separate from her face, and only ever combined at the animation stage, and poorly so even then.





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"Re(3):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Sun 24 Jun 04:08post reply

quote:


I haven't read in detail, but I've seen a lot of "they're making it America, so we probably won't get it over here" complaints.



Well I hardly think Japanese gamers have any room to cry about games not coming over there to Americans.





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"Re(3):Chun-Li defeat portrait" , posted Sun 24 Jun 04:19post reply

quote:
I don't know whether to say it's an improvement or not. The movement is a little awkward because I'm sure necks don't bend quite like that. But even so it doesn't bother me since the original was just a jerky mess of 2-frame animations anyway.


True, the original defeat animations were so slapdash that Udon could make the new art as odd as they wanted and it would still look like a natural outgrowth of the original.





GekigangerV
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"T. Hawk and preview of Sagat" , posted Sat 30 Jun 14:47post reply

Link here


The detail on the belt buckle is a nice touch.

It would be interesting to see the 'Fuu Rin Ka Zan" on Ryu's belt in this game or the Dragon pattern on Chun-Li's midsection that appears in some art if they can do that with T. Hawk's buckle





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"Re(1):T. Hawk and preview of Sagat" , posted Sat 30 Jun 15:44:post reply

quote:
Link here


The detail on the belt buckle is a nice touch.

It would be interesting to see the 'Fuu Rin Ka Zan" on Ryu's belt in this game or the Dragon pattern on Chun-Li's midsection that appears in some art if they can do that with T. Hawk's buckle


the problem in too much detail is animating it. consistency would be a problem for them.

ok back to criticizing :P
t.hawk
i think the right arm is too short, facing the wrong direction. left arm is too Big. upper torso should be facing forward but its slightly toward the viewer which makes his pose awkward. they changed the style too much, a lot suffered
sagat's right leg is longer.. and way different





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[this message was edited by D`Cloud on Sat 30 Jun 15:54]

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"Re(1):T. Hawk and preview of Sagat" , posted Sat 30 Jun 16:02post reply

Sagat could get ugly once he's in action. In the attempt to make him bulkier, they've also made his arm and torso longer. In a hunched over pose where his arm isn't extended, that isn't a major issue, but what about when he transitions to something like a fireball or uppercut where his arm and/or torso should be extended?

As well, they are already having issues with his leg length? The bulkier build makes them want to give him a longer right leg during a kick, which both pushes past the hit box and doesn't match the length of his left leg (which hasn't been lengthened.)


Looking back a comments on prior blog postings, I see someone else questioned the response to the Guile's US flag tattoo complaint, as well.





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Copper Customer


"Re(7):Super SF2 Turbo Remix HD First Images" , posted Mon 2 Jul 09:51post reply

quote:
Hopefully they will stick Peter Griffin in at the end after Bison.


I wonder how will look Zangief XP





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915th Post



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"Re(1):*barf*" , posted Tue 3 Jul 03:16post reply

quote:
oh shit

I just realised something


is Udon gonna redraw the vomit?


What will vomit look like in HD

Will it be customized for each character's diet?



This is a quality post.

Inquiring minds!!





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