Fighting games & the "tier" tournament crowd - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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crazymike
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"Fighting games & the "tier" tourny crowd" , posted Sat 3 Feb 06:37:post reply

Was just commenting on gamefaqs boards the other day (or trolling, flaming, whatever) about GG:Accent Core being another rehash and not all that different to justify its release. Of course I got the shoryuken-esque monkies who swarmed around me saying "what, you don't notice that Ky's stun edge goes 10 degrees higher?" (okay that is a made-up exaggeration but you get the point).

But anyway I guess my point is, do you think the "tier" culture has ruined fighting games?

Instead of coming up with something new we instead get these "balance" releases which seem pointless in the end anyway because most tourny player end up doing Ryu v.s Ryu matches.

Whatever happened to playing for fun? I always enjoyed fighting games with my friends around the house, drinking beer, and talking shit to each other. We never argued whether one character's move was cheaper than the other or "that was not fair", we just played and had fun, which is what games are about. Hell my friends didn't even know what a tier was to begin with, they were just casual gamers.

Normally I would say the tier crowd can have their little subculture, that is fine by me, but it seems fighting game companies are pandering to them and intent on not doing anything new because they know that a few balance changes is what will please this 1% crowd to keep putting tokens in.

No game will be perfect, it will ALWAYS be broken. I always find it an oxymoron that hardcore players say "this version will balance things out" yet also say "well these guys are top tier..." if a game was truly balanced, there would be no tiers, every character would have an equal chance of winning.

Also, on a final note, I find it humorous that tiers seem to change on a yearly or even sometimes monthly basis LOL. The game didn't change, only the players. More proof tiers is a scam and that it is nothing more than a non-scientific view of looking at what characters are picked the most and tend to win at tournaments. It is ultimately up to the player not the game.





[this message was edited by crazymike on Sat 3 Feb 06:52]

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Juan
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"Re(1):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 06:55:post reply

quote:
Normally I would say the tier crowd can have their little subculture, that is fine by me, but it seems fighting game companies are pandering to them and intent on not doing anything new because they know that a few balance changes is what will please this 1% crowd to keep putting tokens in.



I dont think they ruined the arcades. The arcade business is weak, specially on the US. The "tier" people are the ones that keep going to arcades. They are going to please them while making profit for small changes.

It sucks, but that's the way it is. Most of the latest fighting games aren't that great anyway, so my friends tend to play the older stuff.

What you need to do is jump into the meaty, loving arms of Falcoon and give him a giant man hug that will keep you warm in the winter. He will talk to you in Spanish while caressing your hands.





ok

[this message was edited by Juan on Sat 3 Feb 07:06]

Time Mage
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"Re(1):Fighting games & the" , posted Sat 3 Feb 07:35post reply

Once fighting games ceased to be popular among the majority of gamers, they tended to specialize, and it's a logical thing.

If now the majority of the people who play this games are the ones that demand balancing, complex fighting engines, and that the game is tourney-worthy, you have to deliver them that. And, of course, balancing and tweaking an already existing game is easier and cheaper than making a new one, and the hardcore fans will be equally pleased.

I think I am in a point in between the casual fighting game player and the hardcore player: I do distinguish between the different versions changes and tweaks, and most of the time, I appreciate them. I'm not the one who is going to receive those usually small changes with joy, but I understand them. However, I can have the same fun with an older version of that game without thinking "I have to stop playing this, because this isn't what's played in tournaments", like some people think.

Maybe it is because that's my point of view, but I think it's the best way to approach the situation. It allows you to appreciate the changes while not being a tier taliban.





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"Re(2):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 09:29post reply

quote:
The "tier" people are the ones that keep going to arcades. They are going to please them while making profit for small changes.



I agree with this completely.

Also it's common knowledge by now that terrorists killed the arcades.





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"Re(3):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 10:29post reply

I agree that tier culture is pretty stupid, as are probably the past two Guilty Gear "upgrades" (Slash and Accent Core). I still feel that at least every character has a chance to win against everyone else in Guilty Gear despite the tiers that are claimed, though. It sucks that fighting games have turned into "OMG WHICH CHARACTER HAS THE MOST ADVANTAGES/KILLS EVERYONE ELSE FOR FREE", but these people are the ones still pumping money into arcades, so that's what we get, tier fighter. It'd be nice if everything didn't revolve around hypothetical tournament situations, but it doesn't look like it's going to change. I don't know. Avoid fighting game message boards if you don't want to hear about tiers. I try to but I end up going back now and then and restarting the cycle. It blows.





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"Re(4):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 12:17post reply

Isn't the tier culture though a pretty small though? Have to agree with you mike and I just play it for fun and as silly as it sounds a story too. If I lose I lose. Then again coming in as a newbie to a game say for instance fist of the north star and getting totally ripped apart by a toki player does make it not fun at all to come into the arcade and learn.

I really can't even understand all those frames movements and charts everyone posts on fighting forums. Is one frame going to make THAT much of a difference? I might as well shove my opponent off the joystick pad while I play. Uh oh theres one frame missing right there~!

Kind of reminds me of a time at my work when my manager despite being 40 something years of age plays video games on occasion with his buddies and really instead of something complex all he just wants is a punch.





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"Re(5):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 12:32post reply

I think this "tier" fuss is pretty silly, but it actually has existed since forever... Heck, back on he good ol' days of Street Fighter 2, EVERYBODY knew they had to play with Ryu and Ken instead of Zangief or Honda if they really wanted to get any further in the game. That being said, I did see some awesome Zangief players back in he day, and I myself was pretty good with Honda... but you get my point.

The sad thing is that nowadays, whenever a new fighting game hits the arcades, everybody goes whinning like "ZOMG, BROKEN AS HELL!!!11". I guess they think it sounds pro, or cool, or something. It's very annoying.

Perhaps that means I've become a casual player, but so be it.






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"Re(4):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 12:34post reply

quote:
It sucks that fighting games have turned into "OMG WHICH CHARACTER HAS THE MOST ADVANTAGES/KILLS EVERYONE ELSE FOR FREE",



First, I agree with Brandon's agreement, though I'm displeased that he agreed first, because now it just looks like I'm agreeing to agree.

Anyway, I think this is a slightly different issue. I hate those kind of people too, but I don't think they're necessarily in the same class as the people who would be excited about another GG tweak. (or rather, they're a different part of that class) Just because you can pick out every little minor change doesn't mean that you have a shitty attitude about only using the "best" character.

But yeah, it still pisses me off when I see people use Kula/Oswald/Gato in KOFXI. I mean, one of those, sure. Two? Maybe. But all 3? It irritates me because, as silly as it sounds, I think what characters you use, what colors you use and what strategies you use with those characters are a form of self-expression. Based on these elements, you sort of form a bond with the person you're playing...or I do at least.

But a group of people that use overpowered characters with one killer strategy only say "I suck" about themselves, and those who don't say "I don't such, but I always lose."

My big problem isn't just these people, but rather that only hard core players or idiots play in arcades. You can't be "good" at fighting games anymore. You're either so bad that it's funny, or so awesome that you can only play against other totally awesome people.

In my case, I beat every single crappy person and lose 90% of the time against the insane people. Naturally, the insane people get so good because they play whenever they can, so there's a pretty decent chance any time you go to the arcade, they'll be there. This discourages the decent players from playing and the crappy players from becoming decent.

Of course, these people have every right to kick ass all day long...it's not that they're doing anything WRONG, but I think it's creating an increasingly elitist market that's already fairly small.





crazymike
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"Re(6):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 16:02:post reply

quote:

The sad thing is that nowadays, whenever a new fighting game hits the arcades, everybody goes whinning like "ZOMG, BROKEN AS HELL!!!11". I guess they think it sounds pro, or cool, or something. It's very annoying.



LOL and 6 months later, everybody "figures it out", and then say it is "perfect". Same story everytime.

Also I find it humorous how no matter how many new characters companies may try to put in, people still go back to the same "fireball, uppercut" characters. I thought Maki and Eagle were one of the most interesting additions in CvS2, but apparently their non-fireball style is not good enough to warrant seeing people use them alot.





[this message was edited by crazymike on Sat 3 Feb 16:06]

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"Re(7):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 18:09post reply

Heck, I can't even find these so-called "elite" players anymore...and I live in Southern California, US. There's supposed to be so many hardcore players of just about any fighting game out here, but I can't find them. I only see them talking smack on message boards these days.

But then again, it seems like tournaments and high level play are becoming console only to coincide with the decline of arcades.

I've never had that much of a problem with the hardcore players themselves, but the fact that companies feel like they can make a quick buck off of these people DOES annoy me. I have to admit that sometimes I get a real kick out of just sitting back and reading about all the minute details of a move like priority, frames, damage variation depending on whether or not it's a counter, etc. And, as dumb as they can be at times, tiers are fun to read and discuss as well.

This is all coming from someone who basically just plays fighting games by himself and isn't really all that good in versus play, so take it as you will....





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"Re(7):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 18:10post reply

fighting games are fun when there is some one to play with, but playing a BROKEN fighting game with friends sucks beyond you imagination.
as RPGs require good story, good characters.
FPS good action, graphics.
Fighting games require to be FUN, and Balance.
Balance seems to be so hard specially with huge amount of characters.
and i agree most people are just using Fireball characters which SUCKS. CVS2 had lots of great characters who didnt use fireballs.

god i miss 2D fighting ; ; CVS3 please





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"Re(8):unf" , posted Sat 3 Feb 21:46post reply

quote:
fighting games are fun when there is some one to play with, but playing a BROKEN fighting game with friends sucks beyond you imagination.
as RPGs require good story, good characters.
FPS good action, graphics.
Fighting games require to be FUN, and Balance.
Balance seems to be so hard specially with huge amount of characters.


But the balancing degree is also subjective. Sure, for hardcore Third Strike players, all is Chun Li, Yun and Ken, but for me and my group of friends, although we do know how to play quite well (we are in that "good players" group that defeats the crappy ones but loses to the "pros" Polly mentioned), the game is pretty much balanced, with the exception of Twelve and Sean, who just can't compete. And still, we usually play with random selection, so we use those two, too.

The same can be applied to GGXX(add the suffix you want). For tournament play, there might be 3-8 top characters, but in our group, there is no real distinction between the characters. Yes, I suck with May and play well with Faust, but my friend is a beast with May while not being so great with Faust.

So, I reiterate: Being able to understand and even use all the technical stuff like frames, situation-specific combos, and all those things I think is great and only adds to your enjoyment. Being a jerk, an elitist or a whiner because of it isn't.





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simonbelmont
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"Re(8):unf" , posted Sun 4 Feb 03:21post reply

quote:
Heck, I can't even find these so-called "elite" players anymore...and I live in Southern California, US. There's supposed to be so many hardcore players of just about any fighting game out here, but I can't find them. I only see them talking smack on message boards these days.


Nice observation. I've seen them hanging out in the arcade and console rooms at Anime Expo but that's about it.





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"Re(6):unf" , posted Sun 4 Feb 03:29post reply

quote:
I think this "tier" fuss is pretty silly, but it actually has existed since forever... Heck, back on he good ol' days of Street Fighter 2, EVERYBODY knew they had to play with Ryu and Ken instead of Zangief or Honda if they really wanted to get any further in the game. That being said, I did see some awesome Zangief players back in he day, and I myself was pretty good with Honda... but you get my point.



I've always thought this; six years ago everyone else thought I was crazy. I have more respect for a good Zangief player than a good Ryu player; it doesn't take much to be good with Ryu.


It reminds me of a time a while back when I was playing SvC Chaos at the arcade using Kasumi, and some guy jumps in because I'm using such an 'obviously weak' character. So I beat his ass down 3-4 times and all the time he's picking characters like Akuma and Zero just to try and beat me. I mean, hell, by the time I was through with him I had no respect for this guy as a challenger because I knew he was particularly picking the 'obviously strong' characters.





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"Re(7):unf" , posted Sun 4 Feb 05:29post reply

Many of the good players are really good when against players that use all the popular top tier characters, but become very easy to beat when facing against weak low tier characters. Because they have no idea how to approach such characters as nobody uses them.

I like using all the uncommon characters, because it adds some excitement. And it always works really well against good players, though only for few matches before they learn how to beat the character.

Especially in games like kofxi, where everybody knows how to easily beat Gato etc, but are clueless on their approach when it comes to weak characters like Adelheid, Kasumi and so forth.





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"Re(8):unf" , posted Sun 4 Feb 11:40:post reply

quote:
Especially in games like kofxi, where everybody knows how to easily beat Gato etc, but are clueless on their approach when it comes to weak characters like Adelheid, Kasumi and so forth.


Yeah I was beast with Hinako in 03. The only fireball-uppercut owning character I use a lot is Athena. The rest are non-shoto mostly. My friend used to call me "Master of the weird characters" when I use kof 03 Hinako and Jhun. Hinako, Kasumi, Momoko and most of the "weak" characters is weird to him.

The logic is simple most of the people wont dare to play with them, or if they do they'll quit them quick sothey became strange to that character. When they play against a opponent just good with them, they dont know whats really coming. I beat a lot of Duo Lon with my Hinako because of this and Im a average fighter...





[this message was edited by kofoguz on Mon 5 Feb 06:53]

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"Bad/Decent/Insane" , posted Sun 4 Feb 12:01post reply

My friends don't play fighters and there are no arcades around here - I find that I miss playing against other people. So all this talk about tiers makes me wonder about the online fighter experience. Are the majority of players available for online titles (eg. SF3, KoF02/0) scrubs, moderately skilled, or ultra talented? I'm an okay player at best (lack of recent vs. experience surely hurts my tactics) and wonder if it's even worth looking into online fighters as a worthwhile substitute for the old "winner stays loser pays" experience.





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"Re(7):unf" , posted Sun 4 Feb 14:23post reply

My primary problem is both the people abuse certain characters in top tiers and that the tier mindset seems to be what fuels some of the more mindless rehashes of various fighting games. The characters I enjoy tend to hover around the bottom tier barring one or two that is top tier but has to be played in a unique way. For example, Storm is my second favorite superhero and thus I enjoy using her in MvC2 but I can't wave dash to save my life and thus can't pull off those beastly semi infinite combos and thus "suck" since I have to play "normal". At the same time, it's hilarious to take out Akuma players with Twelve or Elena.

quote:

The sad thing is that nowadays, whenever a new fighting game hits the arcades, everybody goes whinning like "ZOMG, BROKEN AS HELL!!!11". I guess they think it sounds pro, or cool, or something. It's very annoying.


LOL and 6 months later, everybody "figures it out", and then say it is "perfect". Same story everytime.

Also I find it humorous how no matter how many new characters companies may try to put in, people still go back to the same "fireball, uppercut" characters. I thought Maki and Eagle were one of the most interesting additions in CvS2, but apparently their non-fireball style is not good enough to warrant seeing people use them alot.



Yet another reason why I miss Mindboggle years after it closed. I wonder if we ever did play against each other unknowingly (though it would have been on 3S or SvC).





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"Re(8):unf" , posted Tue 6 Feb 05:48post reply

I find myself agreeing with Juan as well but mostly when he was discussing the supple, forgiving embrace of Falcoon.

Whether or not the tourney crowd wrecked the fighting game scene is something that depends on your perspective I do think that particular scene has had a large influence on how fighters have evolved. But would fighting games have died out without their obsessive interest? Or would fighters have evolved in different directions to take advantage of changing technologies and audiences instead of trying to appeal to an increasingly insular market?





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"Re(9):unf" , posted Tue 6 Feb 12:51:post reply

Hey, just because games have tiers (which they all do) doesn't mean you can't play them with your friends for fun; just don't expect everyone to be like-minded. As a member of the "tourney crowd", there are generally plenty of people who will use a variety of characters, especially in games where more characters are functional (GG, for example) but you have to deal with people who always play top tiers because frankly, most people are playing to win. Some games just have more characters who can actually work well then others. The tourney scene in the US is dominated by monetary prizes (this isn't as much the case in Japan, so you see better variety there, although top tier charas still win tournies) so people aren't going to pay a 20 dollar venue fee and then get up and use Sean or something (3S...) unless it's casuals. I'm a pretty decent player and in most games I play mid to low tier charas, but the best I've ever gotten was 2nd in a Zero 2 tourney long ago. People who play seriously most definately didn't "kill" fighters, they're the only reason they're still alive; as a side note, revisions of a game are a GOOD thing, not a bad thing; if people never revised games and just were always throwing in random ass new characters, there would probably be hardly a workeable game out there. We'd have a crapload of MvC2s with 50 charas and only about 6 who are actually playable, and nobody would care enough for the industry to remain interested (heck, the industry barely cares anymore as it is, because the casual gamer isn't interested in fighters) There, my poorly organized and random ramble is over. Just people take it seriously doesn't mean you aren't allowed to dick around with them, that's what half the fun is about and that is what casuals are for at tournies. Just don't expect the same gaming experience when people are playing for money. Also, just as an afterthought, to the scene's credit, MOST people are good sports and nice to hang around with; it really isn't fair to dismiss the whole scene as "jerks". I know of a few (no names shall be mentioned) but overall they're great people who just are serious about their hobby.





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Tue 6 Feb 12:54]

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"Re(10):unf" , posted Tue 6 Feb 16:12post reply

quote:
People who play seriously most definately didn't "kill" fighters, they're the only reason they're still alive; as a side note, revisions of a game are a GOOD thing, not a bad thing; if people never revised games and just were always throwing in random ass new characters, there would probably be hardly a workeable game out there. We'd have a crapload of MvC2s with 50 charas and only about 6 who are actually playable, and nobody would care enough for the industry to remain interested (heck, the industry barely cares anymore as it is, because the casual gamer isn't interested in fighters)



I understand what you're saying, and I agree with everything except what I've quoted. MvsC2, miraculously, is still popular. I don't know how and I don't know why, but people still play it everywhere I go.

Upgrades instead of new games do turn off casual gamers. They turn me off, after a point. Guilty Gear has gone too far. I've lost interest now. Many many other Guilty Gear fans feel the same way. In the big picture, I'm sure "new" games would sell more than upgrades, the issue is that the cost that goes into making something completely new may viewed as too risky for developers. If they don't make a good game, then nobody will be interested in it at all.

Saying "nobody would care enough" implies that ONLY hard core people are interested in fighters and that they are only interested in balanced ones. If that were the case, then new, unbalanced fighters would never succeed on any level.

Personally, I like a mix of the two, but if I have the option of playing an upgrade with no new characters and few new moves vs a completely new game with only 6 "playable" characters, I'd rather take the 6, then be happy about the upgrade when they add 4 more.





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"Re(2):Re(10):unf" , posted Wed 7 Feb 12:52:post reply

quote:
People who play seriously most definately didn't "kill" fighters, they're the only reason they're still alive; as a side note, revisions of a game are a GOOD thing, not a bad thing; if people never revised games and just were always throwing in random ass new characters, there would probably be hardly a workeable game out there. We'd have a crapload of MvC2s with 50 charas and only about 6 who are actually playable, and nobody would care enough for the industry to remain interested (heck, the industry barely cares anymore as it is, because the casual gamer isn't interested in fighters)


I understand what you're saying, and I agree with everything except what I've quoted. MvsC2, miraculously, is still popular. I don't know how and I don't know why, but people still play it everywhere I go.

Upgrades instead of new games do turn off casual gamers. They turn me off, after a point. Guilty Gear has gone too far. I've lost interest now. Many many other Guilty Gear fans feel the same way. In the big picture, I'm sure "new" games would sell more than upgrades, the issue is that the cost that goes into making something completely new may viewed as too risky for developers. If they don't make a good game, then nobody will be interested in it at all.

Saying "nobody would care enough" implies that ONLY hard core people are interested in fighters and that they are only interested in balanced ones. If that were the case, then new, unbalanced fighters would never succeed on any level.

Personally, I like a mix of the two, but if I have the option of playing an upgrade with no new characters and few new moves vs a completely new game with only 6 "playable" characters, I'd rather take the 6, then be happy about the upgrade when they add 4 more.

I also kind of understand what you're saying, but fact is MvC2 is nowhere near as popular as it once was (and I admit I let some personal bias against the game get in there.) All I can say is all the GG heads I know of are looking forward with "baited breath" to accent core and it seems to be rather popular in Japan at the moment, although I personally don't really care that much, I've rather lost interest in GG for various reasons.

Edit: And you're right, horribly broken fighters seem to be rather popular, or at least certain ones (hell, I'm fond of HnK myself...) Totally off topic, but is anyone else here still looking forward to checking out Battle Fantasia, or has all interest in it died and been replaced by interest in Arcana Heart for some cosmically cruel reason? >_<





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Wed 7 Feb 13:05]

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"Re(3):Re(10):unf" , posted Wed 7 Feb 17:49post reply

quote:
MvC2 is nowhere near as popular as it once was



It took TOO LONG for the popularity to dwindle. I used to become distressed when I saw that whatever time of the day it was, whatever day of the week it was, SOMEONE was playing the game. This went on for like, over 4 years after it came out. It's just NOT that great!

I'm not interested in Arcana Heart OR Battle Fantasia, though in Battle Fantasia's case, it's all aesthetics. It doesn't look good in stills or motion to me, but that doesn't mean I won't like it if I play it. It never came out, did it? It like went into beta, then went away?

As for HnK, although it's not especially well-balanced, you can use about half the characters, right? I mean, sure, that's only 5, but when you look at it as "half" that's not so bad. Still, the only time I see Shin win is against a junk character or another Shin.

I'm more turned off by the lack of wakeup game combined with the long, fairly easy combos. It's not just frustrating, it's boring to get nailed by the same, needlessly long combo over and over.





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"Re(1):Fighting games & the" , posted Thu 8 Feb 09:43post reply

quote:
Was just commenting on gamefaqs boards the other day (or trolling, flaming, whatever) about GG:Accent Core being another rehash and not all that different to justify its release. Of course I got the shoryuken-esque monkies who swarmed around me saying "what, you don't notice that Ky's stun edge goes 10 degrees higher?" (okay that is a made-up exaggeration but you get the point).

Well, in this particular case, I heard that Slash wasn't even supposed to exist, and everything new in that was supposed to be for AC (plus everything new in AC), but Sega pressured them into releasing an upgrade before they were ready to.

quote:

No game will be perfect, it will ALWAYS be broken. I always find it an oxymoron that hardcore players say "this version will balance things out" yet also say "well these guys are top tier..." if a game was truly balanced, there would be no tiers, every character would have an equal chance of winning.

It's not really about balancing the game. Some people believe that but they've forgotten why the game is fun and why they play it. There are upgrades so the game can change, add new stuff so it says interesting and fresh.

quote:

Also I find it humorous how no matter how many new characters companies may try to put in, people still go back to the same "fireball, uppercut" characters.

Well that's just people sticking with what they know, and it really doesn't have much to do with "tier" players, either. Chun and Yun in 3rd Strike, Cammy, Sakura, Bison, Vega, Blanka, in cvs2, Gato, Oswald in KOFXI, every worthwhile character in mvc2 etc etc etc either don't have a fireball/uppercut game or aren't heavily reliant on it. I mean it's the same reason why people use the rocket launcher instead of the bio slime gun in UT or whatever; they already know how to use the fireball/anti-air game.

quote:
It is ultimately up to the player not the game.

If you play a game a lot with great players, eventually you will get to the point where you'll really see character deficiencies/advantages. That's just part of learning and playing a game a lot. But most people who talk about tiers really aren't even close to good enough (and don't play against people close to good enough) for it to matter, though they don't usually realize it. I know a few people that jump on bandwagons saying so-and-so character is broken or see something and say that character is too good, etc. Honestly both types of comments annoy me; either the "OMG that's too good so broken", or "it's the player not the game see this youtube video of Q winning?". I like to be at a happy medium. It's fine to recognize that some characters have advantages/weaknesses against other characters, it's fine to use top tiers, it's fine to play bottom tiers. Just don't complain. Don't complain that your character sucks or that other characters are too good. I mean do you think top Japanese Q players or whatever complain about Ken players? No, they use Q because they like playing him, not to make an excuse. If you really think a character sucks, then use another character. If you like the game itself, it won't bother you much. But sometimes character loyalty gets a little annoying, and I think does this person actually like playing this or do they just want to use this OMG SO SILLY crap character just for kicks? If they do, then why are they complaining? They should be having fun, because a fun attitude is what would cause you to do that in the first place.

Also about mvc2, there's a reason why that game has stayed alive for so long. It's fun. Even though the gameplay is really crazy and tough to learn, that game has everything you could ever want. You can rushdown, zone, lockdown, run/keepaway, chip, bait, whatever. You can do it all, and all that stuff is well represented in the game. Not only that, but the character ability is though the roof. Mvc2 is home to the most ridiculous "how do you block that?" rushdown, "how do you catch that?" runaway, "where can you go?" zoning/lockdown, and they all get equal time against each other.

So even if you don't like the game, at least recognize and appreciate why it's been around for so long. I mean tell me if you don't think these guys are having a lot of fun, 7 years after the damn game came out: http://www.denjin-video.com/video/mvc2/denjin-video.com-11-18-06-ffamvc2-ranbat-2-6.wmv

Anyway, I'm rambling so I'll cut it here. Also, this is my first post so, uh, hi guys.





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"Re(2):Fighting games & the" , posted Thu 8 Feb 18:02post reply

quote:
Anyway, I'm rambling so I'll cut it here. Also, this is my first post so, uh, hi guys.



Welcome to the cafe!

I fully agree with your post, so I don't have much to add, just an example: My main characters in Third Strike are Remy, Elena and Makoto. Out of those three, I'm much better with Remy or sometimes with Elena than with Makoto, even if she's considered way higher than the other two. I don't think I'm a bad player either, but unless you are at a really high level of competition, the differences between characters are not THAT important. Sure, I suffer against a Chun Li with meter, or against a good Ken, but it's manageable.





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