TRF 2 questions to Sabo10... - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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Red Falcon
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"TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Thu 25 Jan 11:16post reply

Hey, I know it's a bit late and all, but I got a cart for the ol' Atomiswave, and.. well, I'd like to ask you some questions about some stuff if you ever pop on trillian, ha ha.





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sabo10
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"Re(1):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Thu 25 Jan 12:01post reply

quote:
Hey, I know it's a bit late and all, but I got a cart for the ol' Atomiswave, and.. well, I'd like to ask you some questions about some stuff if you ever pop on trillian, ha ha.



it might be faster to ask them here
im not on trillian often
pretty much know everything about every character! ;_;





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"Re(2):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Fri 26 Jan 04:54post reply

quote:

pretty much know everything about every character! ;_;



he really does seem to.
not that I'm any good at that game, but I think I hit him uhhhhhh twice when I played him? something like that.





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"Re(2):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Fri 26 Jan 06:48post reply

quote:

pretty much know everything about every character! ;_;


What is the purpose of Lud's ES/EX-type moves using his heat gauge? Can you explain how exactly they work?

I've never seen them put to much use in match videos, so I'm going to assume they're not too useful.

Also who's better, Kaya or Hikari? And why?





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sabo10
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"Re(3):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Fri 26 Jan 09:17post reply

Heh...I'm not exactly sure with Lud. I know they do more damage and guard chip. I think they also might have a bit of priority or super armor.

There aren't a lot of Lud players here, and most of the good ones don't screw around with the heat gauge much.

People generally say Kaya is upper tier and Hikari is lower tier. I think Kaya has better normals. Kaya also has a "free combo" setup throw which is a million times better then Hikari's "toss em away" one. I know Kaya's CA is really good.

Lud strat is basically:
1. use his Gouki dive kick thing. I forgot the input though ;_; but you can use it right after air recovering to shutdown anyone going for follow up juggle.

2. his horizontal ground dash is great for anti air, but try not to use it when the opponent is on the ground or he can dodge through it and counter.

3. get the opponent in the corner and pressure with repeated "jump straight up" jump in attacks. I think he has a two hitter that is j.sk>j.sp or j.lk>j.sp I think he can even do a divekick>j.sp. Just remember when you have the opponent covered to jump straight up, attack on the way down, and jump right straight up again if they block. This is really annoying and hard to get around.

4. Lud is a guard break character I think, so most of your combos will be earned by keeping them blocking until you break their guard. Just keep continuing combos if they block, using Advance Attack. Be sure to mix up your attack sequence between mid/low hits so they can't use Impact Break to get out of it.

I mostly get frusterated by Luds that are good at controlling air space with the dive kick, and the horizontal dash.

Kaya strat:
1. Try to confuse the opponent into a combo with her cross-up j.sp and j.sk.
2. Tick throw into her setup command throw.
3. Ration gauge so you can use her %70 damage CA.





sabo10
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"Re(4):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Fri 26 Jan 09:24:post reply

As for tiers, in real tournament settings. There has been one guy owning Tokyo area TRF2 tournament for a long time now, and he uses Viren.

I believe Bazoo owns Osaka.

Both of these characters win out based on the quality of their normals. They also are the only two characters that have combo breaker Defense Arts.

Anyway, this game really has good balance. Pretty much any character except 4 can do good in a tournament.

proven tournament dominators: Viren, Bazoo
can win tournaments if you are good: everyone else
joke characters: Boyd, Hikari, Orville





[this message was edited by sabo10 on Fri 26 Jan 09:25]

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"Re(5):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Sat 27 Jan 01:54post reply

Already a bit of a discussion going on here, I see... Anyway, give me some Bazoo advice, ho ho. Is there any practical way to set up his CA, or is it largely as useless as I think it is?





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hikarutilmitt
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"Re(5):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Sat 27 Jan 07:46post reply

quote:
As for tiers, in real tournament settings. There has been one guy owning Tokyo area TRF2 tournament for a long time now, and he uses Viren.

I believe Bazoo owns Osaka.

Both of these characters win out based on the quality of their normals. They also are the only two characters that have combo breaker Defense Arts.

Anyway, this game really has good balance. Pretty much any character except 4 can do good in a tournament.

proven tournament dominators: Viren, Bazoo
can win tournaments if you are good: everyone else
joke characters: Boyd, Hikari, Orville



Dammit, I keep hoping for a home port announcement, but at the same time reading this makes me almost not want it since I don't want to see Hikari weakened to the point of uselessness. :(





sabo10
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"Re(6):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Thu 1 Feb 12:15post reply

quote:
Already a bit of a discussion going on here, I see... Anyway, give me some Bazoo advice, ho ho. Is there any practical way to set up his CA, or is it largely as useless as I think it is?



Bazoo is a very strong character when used properly.
His CA is not often used. I think it may be really hard to connect. He has an Impact Blow loop, which bounces the opponent off the wall, which will almost kill anyone. But even without using that, he is a very strong opponent.

Basically the key to Bazoo is using his normals.
here are some specific things good players do all the time. Bazoo plays a lot like a CVS2 character like Blanka or something. Combos aren't really a big part of his game.

Only Bazoo combo I ever see is stuff like

c.lk > c.lp > AA > s.hk > 6.hp

Bazoo is basically slow to start learning, but once you know how to move him naturally, he is very powerful at keeping people away with his normals.

- use c.lp and c.lk. they are great for keeping people away

- jump forward and back with j.sp. Bazoo's jump is very low, and you can get a pretty fast overhead off with this. His back jump j.sp is especially frusterating since there is little retaliation.

- use his OA as a wake up reversal attack. Once Bazoo's gloves are destroyed, the OA can't be punished on block.

- always throw when you are close to the opponent. for some reason, bazoo players never miss an opportunity to throw ever.

- falling rocks can be used to do a (force opponent to block > unavoidable jolt attack) trick

- when the opponent is air recovering dash to him and do c.hk to try and get a juggle in

- use red gauge for wakeup OA and Advance Attack

- never use blue guage for anything but his combo breaker DA.





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"Re(7):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Thu 1 Feb 16:07:post reply

quote:
Already a bit of a discussion going on here, I see... Anyway, give me some Bazoo advice, ho ho. Is there any practical way to set up his CA, or is it largely as useless as I think it is?


Bazoo is a very strong character when used properly.
His CA is not often used. I think it may be really hard to connect. He has an Impact Blow loop, which bounces the opponent off the wall, which will almost kill anyone. But even without using that, he is a very strong opponent.

Basically the key to Bazoo is using his normals.
here are some specific things good players do all the time. Bazoo plays a lot like a CVS2 character like Blanka or something. Combos aren't really a big part of his game.

Only Bazoo combo I ever see is stuff like

c.lk > c.lp > AA > s.hk > 6.hp

Bazoo is basically slow to start learning, but once you know how to move him naturally, he is very powerful at keeping people away with his normals.

- use c.lp and c.lk. they are great for keeping people away

- jump forward and back with j.sp. Bazoo's jump is very low, and you can get a pretty fast overhead off with this. His back jump j.sp is especially frusterating since there is little retaliation.

- use his OA as a wake up reversal attack. Once Bazoo's gloves are destroyed, the OA can't be punished on block.

- always throw when you are close to the opponent. for some reason, bazoo players never miss an opportunity to throw ever.

- falling rocks can be used to do a (force opponent to block > unavoidable jolt attack) trick

- when the opponent is air recovering dash to him and do c.hk to try and get a juggle in

- use red gauge for wakeup OA and Advance Attack

- never use blue guage for anything but his combo breaker DA.

Thanks a lot! I figured a fair amount of that out on my own (at least around here, I seem to catch people with his standing kick a lot too when spacing properly) but oddly it never occurred to me to set up jolt attacks using the rocks... Any good advice for juggling after his OA or the "scale out" version of dragonfish knock, or is just.. jumping hard punch close hard kick the way to go?

Oh, and have any advice for dealing with a hyper aggressive Aran?





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Thu 1 Feb 16:09]

sabo10
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"Re(8):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Fri 2 Feb 08:42post reply

You mean an Aran that is good at pressuring you on wakeup?

That can be tricky.

Note that Bazoo's D button fast wakeup does not have the end move vulnerability like other characters, and should be used generously.

If Aran has you in the corner, you can try to catch him with a wakeup OA, or just spam c.lp c.lk to try and gain momentum.

If you are both standing. You want to keep Aran just as far as your c.lp will reach. Basically do this with c.lp c.lk j.sp Try not to let him get into a range where he can use his large fireballs.





sabo10
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"Re(9):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Fri 2 Feb 08:43post reply

By the way, where, and in what capicity are you playing this game.





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"Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Fri 2 Feb 12:29post reply

quote:
- use his OA as a wake up reversal attack. Once Bazoo's gloves are destroyed, the OA can't be punished on block.



This intrigued me. Do other characters gain/lose advantages when Parts Crush happens?





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"Re(2):Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Fri 2 Feb 12:41post reply

quote:
This intrigued me. Do other characters gain/lose advantages when Parts Crush happens?



Bazoo's is the only I know of.
Bazoo also has a special OA which makes him destroy his own gloves to gain this advantage.





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"Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Sun 4 Feb 16:21:post reply

quote:
By the way, where, and in what capicity are you playing this game.

Alright, thanks. I own it, and I've been playing with some other pretty hard core players/game buddies (mostly GG players...) and I took it to C3 this month (Maryland tourney) Lot of random people tried it out, but of course there are always the 3S/GG players who seem to think that anything other than 3S or GG isn't worth playing. Did somewhat badly in ST this month, but I had terrible luck with the brackets. :/





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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Sun 4 Feb 16:22]

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"Re(2):Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Tue 6 Feb 12:40:post reply

quote:
By the way, where, and in what capicity are you playing this game.
Alright, thanks. I own it, and I've been playing with some other pretty hard core players/game buddies (mostly GG players...) and I took it to C3 this month (Maryland tourney) Lot of random people tried it out, but of course there are always the 3S/GG players who seem to think that anything other than 3S or GG isn't worth playing. Did somewhat badly in ST this month, but I had terrible luck with the brackets. :/



New question... advice on dealing with Hazama? Ha ha ha... should I try and impact break the first hit of that... big red...slash thing, or would that be too dangerous? His offensive art is absurdly useful. Nobody really uses him here who is good yet, but I'd rather "be prepared", and I haven't had a chance to get a friend over here to mess with it yet.





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[this message was edited by Red falcon on Tue 6 Feb 13:36]

sabo10
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"Re(3):Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Tue 6 Feb 20:30post reply

Never use Bazoo's blue bar for anything but Defensive Art.

If you block a "double red slash" special (qcf+sp) from Hazama, you need to counter attack!!! because that move leaves Haz wide open on block. The qcf+lp single slash version of that move leaves you equal though.

Beware Hazama's lp shoryuken has about a single hot frame of recovery time after he lands. You usually will need to punish him while he is still in the air. With Mito though, I've managed to get so good at "hooking" him the _frame_ his feet touch the ground with c.sp that I usually go for a grounded combo to punish him though. It actually creates a visual bug where Hazama's body is below the floor line a bit when I do this.

Hazama has very nice lp and lk moves, so it is difficult to against him up close on the ground. You should try and not let him get in this position, and attack him at a range or from the air.

Hazama doesn't have very good air to air moves I think.

To be honest, expert Hazamas in Tokyo are a nightmare. The only way I can best them is if I blow a fuse in my skull trying to play mind games against them.

Stuff like:

With Mito,
1. attack with a (blocked)c.sp > (blocked)s.sk
2. continue to a qcf+sp

note that mito's qcf+sp leaves her wide open on block, so continuing to this move on a chain that started out blocked is completely nutso, and that is why it will connect. Because after the blocked s.sk, there is nothing you can safely continue with, and the opponent will start doing some shit because he doesn't have to worry about anything else coming out of you.

This is why I like this game so much, is because it is FULL opportunities of these Sirlin-ey mind games.



quote:
By the way, where, and in what capicity are you playing this game.
Alright, thanks. I own it, and I've been playing with some other pretty hard core players/game buddies (mostly GG players...) and I took it to C3 this month (Maryland tourney) Lot of random people tried it out, but of course there are always the 3S/GG players who seem to think that anything other than 3S or GG isn't worth playing. Did somewhat badly in ST this month, but I had terrible luck with the brackets. :/


New question... advice on dealing with Hazama? Ha ha ha... should I try and impact break the first hit of that... big red...slash thing, or would that be too dangerous? His offensive art is absurdly useful. Nobody really uses him here who is good yet, but I'd rather "be prepared", and I haven't had a chance to get a friend over here to mess with it yet.







Red Falcon
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"Re(4):Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Wed 7 Feb 13:09post reply

quote:
Never use Bazoo's blue bar for anything but Defensive Art.

If you block a "double red slash" special (qcf+sp) from Hazama, you need to counter attack!!! because that move leaves Haz wide open on block. The qcf+lp single slash version of that move leaves you equal though.

Yeah, it does leave him wide open, but from my experience it seems that he can get off an SRK to punish whatever you try to punish him with... maybe just didn't try or experiment with it enough yet though, I'll mess with it some more after work tomorrow.





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"TRF 2 RESURRECTION of thread for whining" , posted Sun 18 Feb 14:27post reply

In a trip to Houston today I went to Planet Zero and finally got to play the game.

First off, the fact that this game will likely never get a home port almost ANGERS me because it's overall a better game than the first and just feels like it's more complete.

Second, you were right, Hikari is waaaaay weaker than she used to be. I was struggling with her and seemingly nothing I could do in the first game seemed to work at all anymore despite the parts of them system I used the most being fundamentally the same.

Third: I like Mito. She's fun to use.

That's all, go about your business. >_>





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"Re(5):Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Mon 19 Feb 06:24post reply

quote:
Never use Bazoo's blue bar for anything but Defensive Art.

If you block a "double red slash" special (qcf+sp) from Hazama, you need to counter attack!!! because that move leaves Haz wide open on block. The qcf+lp single slash version of that move leaves you equal though.
Yeah, it does leave him wide open, but from my experience it seems that he can get off an SRK to punish whatever you try to punish him with... maybe just didn't try or experiment with it enough yet though, I'll mess with it some more after work tomorrow.



If it ever seems like your light normals are not quite long enough to reach but your heavy normals are just a touch too slow, try counter attacking with Advance Attack.

One thing about the game which I never got the numbers on was the comparison of super cancel with AA in basic combo dmg. While there are cases where the AA is not going to do much of anything while the super will be great, for standard ground combos...
normal chain, AA normal chain, special move
vs
normal chain, special move, super cancel

Seems to do about the same damage. And since supers have the same cost as AA in TRF2 (as opposed to two stock in TRF1), I wonder if there's any particular benefit to one over the other. Stun, perhaps?





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"Re(6):Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Mon 19 Feb 10:05post reply

Most characters just do
normals > special > OA

Viren and Greed generally use AA instead of OAs.
Viren: normals > AA > s.sk > s.sp > tripping baton

Greed: normals > AA > c.sp > air combo

Using AA or OA in a combo will yield about the same result.

normals > AA > normals > special > OA

is usually a waste however, since the damage is scaled back so much by the time you get to the OA. However, it DOES do a bit more damage, especially for Hazama, and you should definitely tack on the OA if it will win the match.

On stun:
Viren and Hazama both have very powerful stun inducing moves if you don't know. They both involve air combos.

Viren: chain grab launcher thing (with Impact Blow) > 2 jump air combo

Hazama: shoryuken (with Impact Blow) > 2 jump air combo

I dont know the exact combo since I dont use these characters, but against good players, getting hit by Virens chain ankle grab or Hazamas shoryuken is very dangerous because you will almost always get hit with a stun inducing combo.





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"Re(7):Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Mon 19 Feb 11:04post reply

quote:
stuff


Yeah, that's what I thought... like for Aran, if you do:
normal chain, AA, normal chain, QCB+P chain, OA

The damage scaling of super cancel, hit count, and any prorating normals you may have hit in the normal chains makes the OA do a hilariously puny amount of damage... but, it's not nothing.

Yeah, air chains in the game are deadly... even if they manage to air recover, you can keep them blocking by continuing the chain, land first, and then guard break them. Or you might just guard crush them flatout, and get a free combo anyway.

Just how good is Mito's fireball/uppercut mode? While the super is nice, the other mode just seems better... the other mode has some great pokes which can be hit confirmed into super, great rushdown, and dirty tricks with boost dive. Is there any reason to play in the other mode at all?

I never heard of RF2 having a huge following in Japan, but I do hear and see vids of solid tourneys there... Ko-Hatsu in particular seems to have the largest ones, with >32 participants. But is it at all hard to find people to play with, is it just a small group of regulars, or can you always find someone random there playing it?

I'm sad about how no arcades here have it anymore.





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"Re(8):Re(10):TRF 2 questions to Sabo10..." , posted Mon 19 Feb 11:41post reply

Poke mode is used about 80% of the time with Mito.

However, I think for upper level mito play, its necessary to switch all the time.

Mainly, because d+pp will cancel any normal at any TIME. This is great for speeding up your rush down, mantaining pressure, and mixing up.

stuff like

when you have opponent blocking) from sweep mode) s.sp > s.sp > qcf+pp > c.sp > d+pp > qcf+p > s.sk > d+pp > ad.sk

can really keep a guy blocking, and make him flub up into getting hit

If you can effectively attack with both modes, the opponent will have a hard time guessing whats going to come out of you, and when he is safe to attack or move.

Its also good to get into Sweep mode just to throw the fireball, which, being a fireball, is excellent for mantaining pressure.