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| Pollyanna 2081th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
    
|  "Re(1):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Thu 23 Nov 20:57
quote:
But does anyone get the feeling that Sony may be watching Blue Dragon's Sales figures a little more closely now? I get the feeling that if Blue Dragoon can pull in close to a half million sales or manage to sell 300,000 360's in Japan we may have a very different market place.
I HOPE SO. And I'm not saying that because I preordered the Blue Dragon LE 360, either. I don't even know if I'll like Blue Dragon, but I hope it's a success, because I like the 360. I'm buying into the dream. Blame it on the boss theme.
I mean, I'm sure I'll buy all 3 systems eventually, but I want Sony and Nintendo to suffer for their stupidity. Actually...really just Sony. They aren't doing anything right, they're treating consumers like crap and somehow they're getting away with it. Microsoft is trying really hard with the 360, and they're decidedly consumer friendly. They have a nice system with a number of promising games coming out for it. They deserve a strong place in the market.
But man, the PS3 launch (and the Wii one to a lesser degree) has been really sad. No system selling games, and none on the horizon, either. These people who are buying the systems for $2000...what are they paying for!? Although the Wii software lineup is equally dismal, at least Wii owners can buy Zelda, go home and play the hell out of something they've been anticipating.
If I see a Wii in a store, it might be hard to fight the temptation to buy it. But even if someone gave me a PS3, I don't know if I'd take it out of the box for some time.
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| Just a Person 830th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(2):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Sat 25 Nov 08:31
quote:
But does anyone get the feeling that Sony may be watching Blue Dragon's Sales figures a little more closely now? I get the feeling that if Blue Dragoon can pull in close to a half million sales or manage to sell 300,000 360's in Japan we may have a very different market place.
I HOPE SO. And I'm not saying that because I preordered the Blue Dragon LE 360, either. I don't even know if I'll like Blue Dragon, but I hope it's a success, because I like the 360. I'm buying into the dream. Blame it on the boss theme.
I mean, I'm sure I'll buy all 3 systems eventually, but I want Sony and Nintendo to suffer for their stupidity. Actually...really just Sony. They aren't doing anything right, they're treating consumers like crap and somehow they're getting away with it. Microsoft is trying really hard with the 360, and they're decidedly consumer friendly. They have a nice system with a number of promising games coming out for it. They deserve a strong place in the market.
But man, the PS3 launch (and the Wii one to a lesser degree) has been really sad. No system selling games, and none on the horizon, either. These people who are buying the systems for $2000...what are they paying for!? Although the Wii software lineup is equally dismal, at least Wii owners can buy Zelda, go home and play the hell out of something they've been anticipating.
If I see a Wii in a store, it might be hard to fight the temptation to buy it. But even if someone gave me a PS3, I don't know if I'd take it out of the box for some time.
So, are the first lineups for PS3 and Wii that disappointing?? Are there any games released so far for these systems worth the purchase??
And BTW, how well are these consoles selling?? I read that the PS3 is selling every console available, but mostly because there arenīt many PS3s available so far. And I have no clue about the Wii sales...
I can be any person in the world ... maybe I'm this person right in front of you ... or maybe I'm not !!
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| hikarutilmitt 347th Post
Bronze Customer
| "Re(3):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Sun 26 Nov 01:38
quote:
But does anyone get the feeling that Sony may be watching Blue Dragon's Sales figures a little more closely now? I get the feeling that if Blue Dragoon can pull in close to a half million sales or manage to sell 300,000 360's in Japan we may have a very different market place.
I HOPE SO. And I'm not saying that because I preordered the Blue Dragon LE 360, either. I don't even know if I'll like Blue Dragon, but I hope it's a success, because I like the 360. I'm buying into the dream. Blame it on the boss theme.
I mean, I'm sure I'll buy all 3 systems eventually, but I want Sony and Nintendo to suffer for their stupidity. Actually...really just Sony. They aren't doing anything right, they're treating consumers like crap and somehow they're getting away with it. Microsoft is trying really hard with the 360, and they're decidedly consumer friendly. They have a nice system with a number of promising games coming out for it. They deserve a strong place in the market.
But man, the PS3 launch (and the Wii one to a lesser degree) has been really sad. No system selling games, and none on the horizon, either. These people who are buying the systems for $2000...what are they paying for!? Although the Wii software lineup is equally dismal, at least Wii owners can buy Zelda, go home and play the hell out of something they've been anticipating.
If I see a Wii in a store, it might be hard to fight the temptation to buy it. But even if someone gave me a PS3, I don't know if I'd take it out of the box for some time.
So, are the first lineups for PS3 and Wii that disappointing?? Are there any games released so far for these systems worth the purchase??
And BTW, how well are these consoles selling?? I read that the PS3 is selling every console available, but mostly because there arenīt many PS3s available so far. And I have no clue about the Wii sales...
I'm pretty sure the Wii has sold out all over the place as well, it just took a couple more hours because there were more units to go around.
Truthfully, I'm loving the system already. Red Steel looks interesting, Zelda is of course a system-seller (don't own it yet, myself) and the system comes with a pack-in game worth playing a lot. We've played Wii Sports more than Monkey Ball, in fact. And we haven't even DONE the boxing part of it yet.
The Wii launch is a pretty big success, aside from there being a shortage of controllers. It's practically impossible to find some, even after there being a small restock yesterday.
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| Pollyanna 2083th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Sun 26 Nov 19:56
quote:
So, are the first lineups for PS3 and Wii that disappointing??
Well, the PS3...yes. Very VERY disappointing. I think Resistance: Fall of Man is supposed to be good? (certainly not up my alley, though) and everything else is almost universally hailed as mediocre. That's not even the problem, though...the problem is that there isn't anything on the horizon. The release schedule is really dismal and no promising-looking games have dates yet.
The Wii suffers from a similar problem, but at least Wii sports is fun with friends, Zelda is Zelda, Caduceus is decent, and Wario Ware is on the immediate horizon.
Maese Spt
I'm not a Zelda fan, so I don't know if that makes my opinion more or less valid. I also haven't spent a lot of time with the game, as I don't own a Wii.In my opinion, if you're a Zelda fan, you're going to love the game. It follows the formula very well and there's nothing really wrong with the game.
I can't help but be irritated by it all the same, though, mostly because I said "this is my chance to really get into Zelda!". I was really excited about the scenario, and while it doesn't look fantastic in motion, every screenshot I saw looked really nice. Somehow, I thought that it wouldn't have the usual stiff combat system and hours and hours of screwing around, but as I seem to be the only person on the planet that's bothered by that, it must not be a problem, or at the very least not a problem worth addressing.
But really, I'm just irritated at Nintendo fans that say "the Wii isn't about graphics, it's about innovation". I can agree with that, but it has the added implication that Wii games must be held to a higher standard of innovation since it "isn't fair" to complain about inferior graphics, because "that's not what it's about." That being said, Zelda, which is of course, the biggest game on the system, is not the least bit innovative. It's a carbon copy of earlier formulas that implements the Wii controller competantly, but with little ingenuity.
That doesn't, by any means make it a bad game, but it does encourage me to consider getting the Gamecube version instead. I would encourage those with a Gamecube who are still iffy (or too poor) about the Wii to do the same. As I'm sure most rabid Zelda fans have a GC already, (or they aren't THAT rabid) they can probably wait another 2 weeks.
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| Just a Person 831th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(4):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Mon 27 Nov 10:43
quote:
Well, the PS3...yes. Very VERY disappointing. I think Resistance: Fall of Man is supposed to be good? (certainly not up my alley, though) and everything else is almost universally hailed as mediocre. That's not even the problem, though...the problem is that there isn't anything on the horizon. The release schedule is really dismal and no promising-looking games have dates yet.
The Wii suffers from a similar problem, but at least Wii sports is fun with friends, Zelda is Zelda, Caduceus is decent, and Wario Ware is on the immediate horizon.
Thatīs a shame for PS3... hopefully MGS4 may make up for that. Thereīs also a racing game that looks really interesting (canīt remember its name, but the player can use different vehicles to race, from cars to motorbikes and others - I usually hate racing games, but that one looked amazing!).
Wii Sports does sound fun! About Zelda, I guess you have some valuable points here. People were expecting lots of innovation in its gameplay; hopefully the game itself may compensate for the lack of interaction with the Wiimote?? And I wonder how will be the gameplay in MK Armageddon (and whether will Khameleon be added to it - even though I donīt like her very much, but itīs fair that she has a final appearance).
That reminds me the last console I had was a N64 (no kidding; all the others have been played at game stores or friendsī houses)... maybe itīs time for a change?? Iīll see when more promising titles appear for each console...
I can be any person in the world ... maybe I'm this person right in front of you ... or maybe I'm not !!
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| EddyT 553th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(4):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Mon 27 Nov 15:15
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But really, I'm just irritated at Nintendo fans that say "the Wii isn't about graphics, it's about innovation". I can agree with that, but it has the added implication that Wii games must be held to a higher standard of innovation since it "isn't fair" to complain about inferior graphics, because "that's not what it's about." That being said, Zelda, which is of course, the biggest game on the system, is not the least bit innovative. It's a carbon copy of earlier formulas that implements the Wii controller competantly, but with little ingenuity.
I do worry about that as well. Similar things have happened for 3rd parties (and even Nintendo themselves) when they introduced the DS. It seemed that a lot of companies used the stylus functions because they felt obligated to. In turn, a lot of the games felt more cumbersome with the added stylus features, when the game would have done fine, or even better without it. I can see the same happening with the Wii's controller setup.
Also, I feel that it would be hard to consistently find the ingenuity to make a game under the gimmicky schemes that the DS and the Wii have. I'm all for ingenuity as well, but I would rather see it flow from good standard gameplay (DrillDozer for GBA is a good example). I don't want to see it forced onto a console. It limits the developers' options, and they may end up taking their titles to XBox 360 or PS3 instead. Either that, or they will be lazy about the specifics and just add bare-bones functionality for the Wii-mote or stylus.
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| Mokona 391th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(5):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Tue 28 Nov 01:26
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But really, I'm just irritated at Nintendo fans that say "the Wii isn't about graphics, it's about innovation". I can agree with that, but it has the added implication that Wii games must be held to a higher standard of innovation since it "isn't fair" to complain about inferior graphics, because "that's not what it's about." That being said, Zelda, which is of course, the biggest game on the system, is not the least bit innovative. It's a carbon copy of earlier formulas that implements the Wii controller competantly, but with little ingenuity.
I do worry about that as well. Similar things have happened for 3rd parties (and even Nintendo themselves) when they introduced the DS. It seemed that a lot of companies used the stylus functions because they felt obligated to. In turn, a lot of the games felt more cumbersome with the added stylus features, when the game would have done fine, or even better without it. I can see the same happening with the Wii's controller setup.
Also, I feel that it would be hard to consistently find the ingenuity to make a game under the gimmicky schemes that the DS and the Wii have. I'm all for ingenuity as well, but I would rather see it flow from good standard gameplay (DrillDozer for GBA is a good example). I don't want to see it forced onto a console. It limits the developers' options, and they may end up taking their titles to XBox 360 or PS3 instead. Either that, or they will be lazy about the specifics and just add bare-bones functionality for the Wii-mote or stylus.
Don't forget the impressive production costs...
I may be dreaming here, but I'm pretty sure if the Wii gets a wide enough user-base, then many smaller game developpers will be tempted to make games for it, because : a) they are attracted by the wii-mote and novelty of the system; b) it costs practically nothing to produce a game for it (compared to other systems); and c) apparently, the developping tools and kits provided by nintendo are really helpful and easy to use;
As a company, that's what I'd go for... then again... if it turns out like another Gamecube and the user-base is not that good compared to other systems, the previous points do not count. You're in it for the money, so you might as well go for the systems with the most users, even though the investment is considerably larger.
Blah!
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| Pollyanna 2084th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Tue 28 Nov 05:12
While it is nice that companies can fight rising production costs with the Wii, it's not like I'm really looking for cheap games. The upside with the DS is that you get 2D games, cheap or not. So you may have instances where it's "I don't want to make an expensive game, so I'll make it for the Wii, but that means I have to come up with a gimmick."
I don't care that Zelda doesn't use the Wii controller. That doesn't make me want Zelda less, it just makes me want a Wii less. With poorl-implemented controller schemes, the Wii is nothing but a Gamecube, and the Gamecube is nothing to get excited over.
Again, fancy controller or not, I just want good games. I don't want them to be "cheap" games as an alternative, but if they are, that's fine, too. It's just this whole PS3 vs Wii argument, and as much as I hate the PS3 right now, as I said, if we're holding the Wii to a higher level of innovation, then it's not delivering. But then agai, I thought the DS was a joke when it first came out, too.
I'm thinking of this from a reviewer's standpoint. If they give a Wii game a lower rating because of inferior graphics, then it's surely to met with "that's not what the Wii is about". So you have to judge the games harsher on gameplay, right? And if they don't have superior gameplay, then they're just inferior products.
Hmm...I think I kinda said that already, but I've already typed it, so there's not much point in deleting it.
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| nobinobita
61th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(9):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Tue 28 Nov 07:01
I'm hearing alot of inconsistent criticism regarding the Wii. Alot of people seem to think that the games will be gimmicky and then say they're not innovative enough.
Personally, I think Zelda makes very good use of the controller. It makes aiming alot easier, and swinging to attack is more fun than pressing a button. It's not a world smashing pole shift in gameplay, but it is fun, and even after the novelty wears off, i still say its an improvement over previous control schemes.
Is it innovative? Well, hell yeah. Wii sports is unlike anything else you can play on a home console. It's getting great press and Nintendo really is expanding the market. I had the wii out during my big family thanksgiving dinner and even the parents and grandparents were interested in playing it. Theyd NEVER express interest in playing with a regular gamepad.
I think the problem that most gamers are having with the Wii is that it is different, but it just doesn't appeal to them. That's fine too. I mean, honestly, i'd rather have a good new street fighter than a PS3 or a Wii, but i still think the Wii is damn cool so far. And like the DS, it should only get better.
Also, as far as inferior graphics go, I care about art more than processing power (and Im sure most of you guys would agree) and I think the current gen systems are powerful enough. Twilight Princess has a nice art style (even though I liked Wind Waker's alot more) so I'm happy with it. I don't care for the art style in Resistence: Fall of Man, so no matter how well rendered it is (and it's not really that well rendered anyway, its get very boring lighting and minimal use of Normals mapping) it still looks bad to me.
An even better example is Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. That game looks like a smoking turd to me. A very high poly count, shiney, well rendered smoking turd, with great draw distance, but a turd none the less. It's designs are completely boring and artless. The best stuff in it is copied from real life, and anything they tried to make up looks fake and without culture or esthetic. But for some reason, alot of magazines seemed to go nuts for its graphics. Hell, I've read reviews of other 360 rpgs like FFXI or Enchanted Arms that say that they can't compare to Oblivions graphics. But you know, to each his own.
Anyway, long story short, i like the Wii. It's fun in ways that other systems aren't and it will only get better.
And as long as the art style is good, the graphics look great.
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| nobinobita
67th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):Re(10):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Wed 29 Nov 12:24:
quote:
Well, I won't deny that Japan has faded in terms of important design decisions, the aura of Japan is still in strong play.
Japan is still important and relevant. I mean, cmon, has there ever been a bigger design shift than the Wii?
And beyond that, alot of recent "innovative" American games are inspired by Japanese ones.
For instance, God of War owes alot to the Berserk games (DC and PS2). Both games have a combo system based on chaining kills together, both have context specific killing animations, both also have boss specific attacks implemented through timed button presses.
I remember some quote from Kojima saying that God of War had a sorta Japanese sensibility to it in terms of "service to the player" or something like that. I think he meant that it was very highly polished (perhaps implying that American games ussually aren't).
Another highly lauded game is Guitar Hero, which is basically Guitar freaks plus 2 extra frets and licensed American rock music.
Also, the game designer of Gears of War said that he was very inspired by Resident Evil 4, which he called the best game of that year. That game certainly has a Resident Evil 4 feel to it in terms of the quick action dynamics and the prolific use of the action button.
I'd say that Japanese games are still as relevant as ever, it's just that American games are catching up in terms of popularity and innovation.
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Although to be fair when has Sony ever had a killer launch title for it's home systems?
I remember being real amazed at the original Toshinden, in all its goraud shaded glory. It was graphically unlike anything I'd experienced at home before.
The PS3 doesn't have this novelty. Current Xbox 360 games blow the PS3 lineup out of the water. Gears of War looks much better than Resistance Fall of Man, both in terms of art style and technical power.
That Genji game has nice graphics though, even if it's supposed to be boring.
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Still I do want to see Kuturagi taken down a peg or two. Especially for some of his crazy sayings lately.
I rather like Kuturagi and his loud mouth. I wish more Japanese designer's were like him. If they were, then the Japanese would get a little more credit for what they do.
I hate how humble people like Hideo Kojima are. He has such a high concept warped view of art that he refuses to say that his games have any artistic merit.
At the same time, people like David Jaffe (God of War, Twisted Metal Black, Mickey Mania) talk themselves up to an incredible degree. Jaffe comes off as incredibly full of himself. He talks about what an artistic triumph all his games are, and how he's going to be the first guy to make a game that will make people cry. He's completely rediculous, but he gets so much credit and respect.
And to his credit, although I sorta hate his games (except for Mickey Mania) I do really respect him, because it's all an act, and he realises that he has to say these things in order to promote himself.
I mean, any Western game designer that's done anything of merit is known by name. And I mean, they all deserve it, you know, people like Will Wright, John Carmack, Jaffe etc.
But what about the Japanese guy that designed Herzog Zwei, effectively creating the Real Time Strategy genre? Does anyone know who he is?
Do you ever hear of ANY japanese game designer boasting about their innovations (other than Itegaki)?
Alot of innovative stuff still comes from Japan, they just don't advertise and promote themselves as well as their brother's in the west.
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Wed 29 Nov 18:31] |
| exodus 3662th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Wed 29 Nov 14:26:
quote:
Japan is still important and relevant. I mean, cmon, has there ever been a bigger design shift than the Wii?
fair enough - but it's not how it was. remember the days when you wouldn't even *buy* an american game because you knew it'd be terrible? I sure do.
quote:
And beyond that, alot of recent "innovative" American games are inspired by Japanese ones.
Inspiration doesn't really count - I mean that definitely goes both ways. Look at Kenka Bancho, Yakuza, and Capcom's new Shinjuku Wolf - if those aren't GTA inspired, I don't know what they are!
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Also, the game designer of Gears of War said that he was very inspired by Resident Evil 4, which he called the best game of that year.
I know, I did that interview!
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I'd say that Japanese games are still as relevant as ever.
Still relevant, yes. As ever...I wouldn't agree. I think it's a much different world than it was in the 90s.
[edit]
wow...I left lots of quote in there randomly.
[this message was edited by exodus on Wed 29 Nov 17:57] |
| nobinobita
65th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(4):Re(10):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Wed 29 Nov 18:26
quote:
remember the days when you wouldn't even *buy* an american game because you knew it'd be terrible? I sure do.
Haha. Yeah I do actually! Ok, now i understand where you are coming from and I agree with you. Those were my favorite days of gaming actually.
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Inspiration doesn't really count - I mean that definitely goes both ways. Look at Kenka Bancho, Yakuza, and Capcom's new Shinjuku Wolf - if those aren't GTA inspired, I don't know what they are!
does it count that I find all those games infinitely more interesting GTA?
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I know, I did that interview!
Doh! My apologies! I should actually start remembering these things, especially since ive started posting here instead of just lurking.
I do enjoy your writing for insertcredit and gammasutra (that's where the interview was posted right?)
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it's a much different world than it was in the 90s.
I hear ya brother! I mean, a good game used to just clearly be a good game. Heck, I used to trust EGM scores! I NEVER got a game that scored less than an 8 average! (except for Herzog Zwei, which was awesome)
Just today I was thinking about how we're into the 5th generation of consoles (starting with NES) and i felt a little sad. The 90s seemed so far away, and with it, the pure love and excitement I felt for games.
It makes me even sadder cos I'm probably going to be entering the games industry (from the art end) and there's very little out there that i'd like to work on. I've been going over in my head what lies ill have to say during interviews to get a job.
"Of COURSE I love Tony Hawk!!! It Rawks!! I play it all the time!!!"
It's not even that I think American games are BAD or anything, they're just a different flavour that i didn't grow up with.
Of course, if i can be paid a liveable wage to animate for any game ill be pretty happy.
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| nobinobita
67th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(6):Re(10):PS3 After launch fun" , posted Sat 2 Dec 06:41
quote:
I actually have fun playing GTA, because I like screwing around in games and making them break more than completing them, these days.
I can't really get into GTA. I can see why other people like it so much, and it is fairly creative and original, but I've never been intersted in playing as an asshole. I think that's one of the big changes that's occured. I've heard countless people say "finally, i can be the badguy!" regarding GTA and lots of other games.
It always made me wonder about them. I never wanted to be the badguy as a kid. I LIKED being good.
I mean, the whole "sandbox" thing is fun. But I have more fun playing Combatribes, where you get to slam people's heads together and step on their nuts (but theyre evil so they deserve it). To my knowledge, that's the only game where the protagonists are a clear foot taller than everyone they fight. It's a great bully simulator.
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Well, you could go the indie route, and there's a lot of innovation there, or you could get in with a company like bioware, which - while I don't find their games interesting - do RPGs and suchlike.
Oh yeah, i didn't meant to sound so down before. I'll definitely be happy doing art for a living just about anywhere. I have some friends working for Radical Axis (the company that produces all those horrible new cartoons on Adult Swim and Comedy Central). They told me that all the animators know that the shows suck, BUT they have fun working on them. As a side note, my friends have actually been told that some of their animation was TOO good for TV and to scale it back and make it look bad to match everything else.
I mean, on a perosnal level that sort of attitude really bugs me to my core. But I can see why things are like that on a practical level. I don't expect to get my dream job right away. I'll have to work my way up there. But there are lots of cool American companies like Epic (Gears of War) who are making games that i like, and that's somethign to shoot for.
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