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Arngrim
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"Persona 3 impressions" , posted Wed 26 Jul 03:45post reply

Hey! I'm very excited with the release of Persona 3 but nobody here has even mentioned it.

I've heard a lot of positive feedback about it and I'm very interested to know some of the impressions on this game of those who have tried it.

The plot is said to be tragic at Valkyrie Profile Lenneth level, which sounds absolutely awesome to me. Every characters suffers a tragedy or a very significant loss. The spoilers I've heard about the story so far look amazing.

The system has some excentric touches of dating sims such as raising your status by attending to classes everyday (!), which also catches my attention. The art looks amazing (in my humble opinion) and definetely there are some interesting character designs such as Mitsuru, Aegis and Fuka.

I hope to hear your impressions since I won't get anything about the plot nor the system once I play it (near zero japanese skills) and its a long run until February 2007 (estimated release in US).






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Pollyanna
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"Re(1):Persona 3 impressions" , posted Wed 26 Jul 05:48post reply

Give me a week or so. Heheh...I played the beginning of the game and it was very impressive. The cut scene where the main character first summoned his persona almost brought tears to my eyes.

I was quite excited about the game, but I wanted to finish Valkyrie Profile 2 first, because I knew if I got into Persona 3, I'd never go back.

So far, I'm completely torn on the game, though (persona 3, I mean). It looks fantastic and the presentation is one of the best I've ever seen in a game. The music (while not really my style) is fantastic and the voice acting, while a little "cartoony" for my taste, is understated enough to be enjoyable.

The thing is, it's not much of an RPG. You can only control the main character, for one (and I can't change anyone else's personae). Most of the dungeons are randomly generated, and there are a lot of obstacles to "just playing" (for example, your characters always get tired and sick, and you have to take "days off" from dungeon crawling). I'm sure you already know this stuff, though.

I'm very excited about the game, because thus far, it's been a great experience, but I don't know that it's necessarily a good RPG.

Oh, and this isn't really a spoiler (believe it or not!) but I'm surprised that Nyarlathotep shows up right off the bat. (if you know what I'm talking about, it's GOT to be him!)





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"Re(1):Persona 3 impressions" , posted Wed 26 Jul 17:47post reply

Cool kids save the world after school !
Angst, simili suicide and make up !


No, I never liked PErsona.





Arngrim
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"Re(2):Persona 3 impressions" , posted Thu 27 Jul 04:19post reply

It's understandable because Persona saga is quite a rare gem.

Even though, I thought you'd like Persona 3 for its excentricity and originality. I've seen some videos at youtube and some things look just really weird (like those Shadow Wrestlers enemies). This game is quite a work of art in some aspects, and I believe I will get into it and enjoy it a lot.

I wish the translations for both this game and Silmeria were quicker, waiting until next year to enjoy these titles will definetely be a pain.

I will post new impressions once I try the japanese version (altough I won't get very far, as this game doesn't look very intuitive and my japanese skills are near inexistent).

Well, at least I will be able to have my very own impressions and opinion, which already serves a purpose.






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Korigama
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"Re(3):Persona 3 impressions" , posted Fri 28 Jul 01:42post reply

quote:

I wish the translations for both this game and Silmeria were quicker, waiting until next year to enjoy these titles will definetely be a pain.



Silmeria is due out September '06 in the US.





Zepy
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"Re(4):Persona 3 impressions" , posted Fri 28 Jul 02:51post reply

I haven't played Persona 3 because I left my PS2 in another country





Evenor
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"Re(2):Persona 3 impressions" , posted Fri 28 Jul 03:18post reply

quote:



The thing is, it's not much of an RPG. You can only control the main character, for one (and I can't change anyone else's personae). Most of the dungeons are randomly generated, and there are a lot of obstacles to "just playing" (for example, your characters always get tired and sick, and you have to take "days off" from dungeon crawling). I'm sure you already know this stuff, though.

I'm very excited about the game, because thus far, it's been a great experience, but I don't know that it's necessarily a good RPG.





Bleh.
Have you had any bad situations dealing with the AI?






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Pollyanna
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"Re(3):Persona 3 impressions" , posted Fri 28 Jul 05:14post reply

quote:

Have you had any bad situations dealing with the AI?



No, the AI hasn't frustrated me even in the least (and I'm prone to frustration). It's just...it's a different experience than a normal RPG. It's all about "The Persona 3 experience", I guess.

Two other things to note...
You can make your team split up and search the maze seperately (you just control the hero) and it has the SMT3 weakness system...and then some.





Arngrim
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"Re(4):Persona 3 impressions" , posted Fri 28 Jul 16:43post reply

quote:

Two other things to note...
You can make your team split up and search the maze seperately (you just control the hero) and it has the SMT3 weakness system...and then some.



Oh so that's it! I was puzzled when my tema dissolved and started to run around through the maze!

I've finally played the game, having little clue of what's going on I've followed more or less the story. The setting (at the moment) is somewhat basic and easy to follow, but I've played little more than a pair of hours of the game.

The game so far is amazing. Very conceptual and stylistic. The music is VERY GOOD (if you are into jazzy and somewhat hip hop tunes). I got the OST and it is awesome. The battle theme (titled Mass Destruction) is... unexpected (but surprised me in a good sense).

I like this game so far. Very interesting.






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Maese Spt
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"Persona and Megaten" , posted Sat 29 Jul 04:23post reply

quote:
Cool kids save the world after school !
Angst, simili suicide and make up !


No, I never liked PErsona.



Yet I recall having read you loved Megaten series... strange.

Well, I'm a n00b to Shin Megami Tensei universe, but the few things I've seen about previous Persona games make me feel quite interested, at the very least, on this new Persona 3.

Speaking about that, lately I've been pondering the idea of entering in the Megaten world, maybe this would be a good chance, oh wise fellow MMCafers, to beg for your counsel and guidance:

May I start playing the US versions of Persona (1 and 2.2) on PSX, wich I stole from a friend; or maybe I'd better to try Digital Devil Saga and other, newer Megaten incarnations on PS2? Or maybe I have better to sum up all my courage and try to play first the older SNES versions? Where can/should I start? Oh, yeah, If possible, I'd like to play english versions, I still get headaches when reading kanji on screen >_<...






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CHAZumaru
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"Re(1):Persona and Megaten" , posted Sat 29 Jul 04:36post reply

quote:
Cool kids save the world after school !
Angst, simili suicide and make up !


No, I never liked PErsona.


Yet I recall having read you loved Megaten series... strange.



Megaten is vast. You thankfully do not need to love everything coming from Megaten to love some aspects of Megaten, otherwise atrocities like NINE or Ronde would still be raping our souls. Therefore here it was to be understood that, I guess (and actually know), Iggy doesn't like the Persona subseries specifically.





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"Re(1):Persona and Megaten" , posted Sat 29 Jul 05:13post reply

quote:
Yet I recall having read you loved Megaten series... strange.

What Chaz said.

Persona is usually considered as the Megaten series made to appeal to the widest public. Also, it smells much more otakuish than the rest.

If Shin Megaten 3 Nocturne Maniax seems too much of a challenge for you, then maybe you should indeed consider discovering the universe with one of the gaiden ones, like Persona or Avachu.

But if you really want to get into it, you should go all the way and try SMT3 first head. The SMT series is at the core of the multiverse, all three games are equally great, and while I won't begin an argument on wether Nocturne is the best of the 3 SMT, it is at least the best looking one.
It's harder and quite different from most RPG, but it's not Romancing Saga either. I really consider SMT3 as one of the best games the PS2 has to offer, and since it has been released almost everywhere, I say you should give it a try.





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"Re(2):Persona and Megaten" , posted Sat 29 Jul 16:21post reply

quote:

Persona is usually considered as the Megaten series made to appeal to the widest public. Also, it smells much more otakuish than the rest.



I think Avatar Tuner is decidedly more otaku than Persona. Well, that's excluding Persona 3, which is (despite being stylish and well excecuted) almost painfully otaku. I'm hoping the characters will develop into something less stereotypical.

We're not talking about Devil Children at all here, right?

Anyway, although Iggy isn't saying "don't play Persona because it's too otaku", I think it's important to note that even if it was twice as "otaku" as it is, it would still be less "otaku" than 95% of other RPGs.

Anyway...
SMT3 is definitely one of the best games in the series and one of the best RPGs on PS2. Actually, it's one of the very few truly excellent RPGs on the system. However, if you're going to play Avatar Tuner AND SMT3 then I highly recommend playing Avatar Tuner first. It's a little more like a "normal" RPG, with cinemas, voice acting and a steady plot/characters. SMT is all people standing still and talking to scrolling text, when it's not exploring dungeons (and it's almost always exploring dungeons). That can be a bit of a turnoff to some people.

Avatar Tuner has the same battle system and provides a comparable playing experience, so if you like it, you'll probably like SMT3.

As for Persona...erm...well...the first one was really butchered in America. I mean, the character/setting changes are one thing, but the Persona names were changed and the difficulty is just...completely shot. Even if you can get past all the "Americanization", the gameplay changes completely ruin the experience.

Eternal Punishment is a better shot, but not by much, considering that you have to play both the original Persona and Innocent Sin if you want to fully enjoy it.

That leaves SMT1/2 which you can download translated ROMs of, if you like. It might be too dated or weird, but SMT2 is a fantastic game (I haven't gone all the way through SMT, so I can't judge it). If it doesn't initially turn you off, then you should enjoy it.





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"Re(3):Persona and Megaten" , posted Sat 29 Jul 19:17post reply

Good points here, I haven't touched Avachu, and Persona (at least 1&2) are still above average compared to most of the crap flooding the RPG market. It's not a Tales or a Tri-Ace game, you're right.
I just noticed I had a period when I was keeping track of all the RPG that was released, and it stopped by the end of the PS1. Good riddance.

I never heard of any game called Debichilu, and I want to keep things that way.





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"Re(3):Persona and Megaten" , posted Sun 30 Jul 03:59post reply

quote:

As for Persona...erm...well...the first one was really butchered in America. I mean, the character/setting changes are one thing, but the Persona names were changed and the difficulty is just...completely shot. Even if you can get past all the "Americanization", the gameplay changes completely ruin the experience.



I understand what you're saying here but I really don't agree that the US 'version' of Persona ruined the experience - particularly if that's where you start your Megaten experience. Persona was the first Megaten game I played and I absolutely loved it - it was like nothing I had played to date.

Yeah, the game was dodgy in certain areas but it was definitely worth playing. I'll admit that in retrospect Persona is weak compared to the subsequent SMT releases but it's better than most PSX era RPGs and would serve as a suitable introduction to the series. Especially since the guy already has a copy of the game - he might as well enjoy it before moving on to the stronger titles. Plus it'd give him some background for EP (which he also already has) - and that was a great game even with otakuesque elements and half the story missing.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Persona was so messed up that it would sour him to the Megaten experience. Mind you if he didn't already have Persona I wouldn't recommend chasing down a copy for his first Megaten game but since he has it I'd say give it a try.





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Pollyanna
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"Re(4):Persona and Megaten" , posted Sun 30 Jul 05:48post reply

quote:

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Persona was so messed up that it would sour him to the Megaten experience. Mind you if he didn't already have Persona I wouldn't recommend chasing down a copy for his first Megaten game but since he has it I'd say give it a try.



That's true. If he already has it, then there's no pain in trying it. It still has its charm, but even though I've been able to get over the Americanization of the game, this is the first time I can think of that the GAMEPLAY has been ruined in a translation. You can spend 2/3 of the game doing one spell and one spell only, over and over, and have no problems whatsoever. Considering that the fights are a little slow to begin with, it's intolerably boring.

When I first played it, I barely noticed, because I was so impressed with 100 other things about the game, but my standards, (and I assume the standards of at least most people here) have changed at least a bit since then.

But, then again, I went through Suikoden 5, which offered a similarly weak experience (including one boss I beat without attacking and 6 or 7 I beat in one turn). Of course, it wasn't as dungeon intensive.





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"Re(5):Persona and Megaten" , posted Sun 30 Jul 18:19post reply

quote:
But, then again, I went through Suikoden 5, which offered a similarly weak experience (including one boss I beat without attacking and 6 or 7 I beat in one turn). Of course, it wasn't as dungeon intensive.

Tiny thread hijacking : So, GenSui5 was meh ?
At least better than 4, I've heard, but still not above average?





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"Re(6):Persona and Megaten" , posted Sun 30 Jul 19:48:post reply

quote:

Tiny thread hijacking : So, GenSui5 was meh ?
At least better than 4, I've heard, but still not above average?



Yeah, it's "meh." It's not terrible, but it offers very little in terms of gameplay...or rather, challenge. The strategy battles are sometimes fun (and sometimes unfair) and there's a fair amount of character/party customization, but all of it is pointless when nothing provides any challenge whatsoever.

I had a boss...a BOSS get killed in one hit, from a counter when he attacked me. I wasn't overleveled in the least, either.

I guess you could say the game is "saved" by the plot and characters...but...the plot starts out good, but becomes painfully straightforward for most of the game, until it fizzles out into boring nonsense in the end. I liked quite a few of the characters though...enough for me to say it has a "better than average cast."

I would say it was a mediocre game that was somehow enjoyable. I won't say "below average", because "average" seems to lean towards "awful" sometimes. If you're not a Suikoden fan, I can't possibly recommend it, though. Even if it starts off well enough, the story isn't nearly as interesting as Suikoden 3's and it doesn't make up for it in any other aspect.


EDIT: Yes, better than 4. Even though I tolerated 4 when I went through it, it left me with this...this...rage. I kept asking "How did you think that was a good idea!?!?!" about nearly everything in the game.





[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Sun 30 Jul 19:52]

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"Re(7):Persona and Megaten" , posted Mon 31 Jul 05:17post reply

Thanks for the info, everyone. Really heplful, as expected. orz

I think I'll give the two PSX Persona I already hijacked yet another try, and then will look for SMT 3. The americanization on the first Persona is so awful that I find it almost amusing. Oh, and since I like playing old junk classics every now and then, I'll try to find an english ROM of the SNES versions too.

And now (I can't help it) Suikoden time. Hell yeah, I like even more where this thread is going.

quote:
Even if it starts off well enough, the story isn't nearly as interesting as Suikoden 3's and it doesn't make up for it in any other aspect.



Hearing that GenSui 5 is better than 4 is comforting but, sadly, that was quite an easy feat. I don't mind the gameplay that much, but if the story is somewhat weak, that would be a major letdown for me.

On the other hand, it's not difficult to find a handufl of characters to like on a game where the cast amounts about 108 guys so, being the Suikoden whore I am, I guess I'll end up enjoying this one as well. But, somehow, lately I'm not so eager to play it...






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"Re(8):Persona and Megaten" , posted Mon 31 Jul 05:27post reply

quote:
I'll try to find an english ROM of the SNES versions too.



agtp.romhack.net

Full english translation patches for SMT1 and 2, as well translations as for all kinds of other goodies... did i mention CAVE STORY? Did I? I only mentioned it 10^73 times last year, which I'm not sure is enough.





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"Re(8):Persona and Megaten" , posted Mon 31 Jul 05:57post reply

quote:

Hearing that GenSui 5 is better than 4 is comforting but, sadly, that was quite an easy feat. I don't mind the gameplay that much, but if the story is somewhat weak, that would be a major letdown for me.

On the other hand, it's not difficult to find a handufl of characters to like on a game where the cast amounts about 108 guys so, being the Suikoden whore I am, I guess I'll end up enjoying this one as well. But, somehow, lately I'm not so eager to play it...



If you're a Suikoden whore, you'll like the game. Most big Suiko fans I know say "it's the best Suikoden" or "it's the best since 2". I was inclined to agree until I actually finished the game and everything fell apart...or at the very least "fizzled out." Still, it wasn't a terrible experience, and the Suiko fan in me enjoyed it.

The way I should have said it before is that I can't recommend the game to non-Suiko fans, but Suiko fans are going to play it even if I don't recommend it.





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"Re(9):Persona and Megaten" , posted Mon 31 Jul 09:38post reply

The biggest challenge in GenSui5 was figuring out how to recruit everyone. Which I guess people see as an odd challenge, since everybody thinks that kind of stuff should be easy and/or done for you by someone else and/or written down. Gamers have become so spoiled since the days of not waiting for Shadow.

As for Megaten, if Persona was made to appeal to the general public and I didn't like it at all, and the same thing with DDS, does that mean I shouldn't bother with SMT or does it mean I should definitely try one?





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"Re(10):Persona and Megaten" , posted Mon 31 Jul 09:48post reply

quote:
The biggest challenge in GenSui5 was figuring out how to recruit everyone. Which I guess people see as an odd challenge, since everybody thinks that kind of stuff should be easy and/or done for you by someone else and/or written down. Gamers have become so spoiled since the days of not waiting for Shadow.

As for Megaten, if Persona was made to appeal to the general public and I didn't like it at all, and the same thing with DDS, does that mean I shouldn't bother with SMT or does it mean I should definitely try one?



If you are looking for a RPG that is old-school,challanging, and satisfying - then YES
(I'm refering to SMT3:Nocturne)






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"Re(10):Persona and Megaten" , posted Mon 31 Jul 10:01post reply

quote:
The biggest challenge in GenSui5 was figuring out how to recruit everyone.

As for Megaten, if Persona was made to appeal to the general public and I didn't like it at all, and the same thing with DDS, does that mean I shouldn't bother with SMT or does it mean I should definitely try one?



I don't know that I would qualify recruiting as "challenging". More like "time consuming." For the most part, it's not putting anything but your patience to the test. There are too many "go back to this place that you would have absolutely no reason to go back to" and "do this thing that you would have no reason to do before some completely unrelated event happens, or you can't do it at all."

Oboro SORT OF solved this problem, but recruitment was still as much of an irritation as a challenge.

Also, if you didn't like Avatar Tuner because of the characters, or because you can't recruit monsters, then try SMT3. Otherwise, they're pretty similar (SMT just does it better). If you really disliked Persona AND AT to the core, then there's no reason at all to think that you'd like SMT3. People who like SMT3, but not the other games tend to dislike AT or Persona more as "SMT games" than as games in general.

Excluding the super lame ending, AT2 had a good story, but lackluster dungeon/boss designs. AT's story was too straightforward, but the gaming experience was better overall.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Persona and Megaten" , posted Mon 31 Jul 11:59post reply

quote:

As for Megaten, if Persona was made to appeal to the general public and I didn't like it at all, and the same thing with DDS, does that mean I shouldn't bother with SMT or does it mean I should definitely try one?


That really depends on what you hated about Persona and AT. What it something specific you didn't like about them or did you just hate the whole experience?

quote:
Excluding the super lame ending...


Seconded.

Also on an AT2 note: I'm toying with the idea of replaying it on hard (which entails losing all acquired skills) to face the special uber boss. Did anyone bother with this in AT2? I'm trying to decide if it's even worth my time (particularly since facing the uber boss in AT1 required extensive leveling/item farming...).





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"Re(3):Re(10):Persona and Megaten" , posted Mon 31 Jul 20:20post reply

quote:

Also on an AT2 note: I'm toying with the idea of replaying it on hard (which entails losing all acquired skills) to face the special uber boss. Did anyone bother with this in AT2? I'm trying to decide if it's even worth my time (particularly since facing the uber boss in AT1 required extensive leveling/item farming...).



(excuse me if this post is incoherent, I need to go to bed)

What IS the super boss, anyway? To me, the game isn't worth playing through again, thanks to the mediocre (for a Megaten game) maze design.

Despite the ending being lame, I liked the last boss fight a lot...


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
That was one of the few times I really felt like I was fighting a god in a game. No lame angel wings/chorus/organs, and it was very "spiritual" as well.

End of Spoiler


The last boss theme is one of favorites, ever...and the normal battle theme is fantastic as well. I don't feel like the rest of the soundtrack is quite as good as the AT1 one, though.

That makes me wonder what the end of Raidou is like. Despite the awesome setting, (typically) good soundtrack and fun puzzle things you could do with the demons, the battle system in that game is so boring it prevented me from finishing it.





Variable Savior
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"Re(4):Re(10):Persona and Megaten" , posted Tue 1 Aug 11:43post reply

quote:

What IS the super boss, anyway?



Well, the extra boss in AT1 is:



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Hitoshura from SMT:N. He fights with a party of demons like in Nocturne - facing him was actually pretty cool. A major pain in the arse, but still cool.

End of Spoiler



And as I understand it, AT2's extra boss is:



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
SMT3's Satan. Presumably sans the need for piercing

End of Spoiler







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"Re(3):Re(10):Persona and Megaten" , posted Tue 1 Aug 13:05post reply

quote:

That really depends on what you hated about Persona and AT. What it something specific you didn't like about them or did you just hate the whole experience?



Well, for AT, specifically I'd say I didn't like the repetitive dungeons, the scenario (I can handle a dungeon hack if I like the scenario, but not here), the setting, and the overall colorless art style.

Persona's a little harder to recall because it's been almost 10 years since I played it, and that was only a rental. Back then I had the patience to get through a good chunk of it, but I still eventually gave up out of boredom. Too many repetitive and dull areas to explore.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Persona and Megaten" , posted Tue 1 Aug 14:37post reply

quote:


Well, for AT, specifically I'd say I didn't like the repetitive dungeons, the scenario (I can handle a dungeon hack if I like the scenario, but not here), the setting, and the overall colorless art style.

Too many repetitive and dull areas to explore.



So you mean, since the backgrounds are "tiled" rather than having individual, different looking areas for each "screen" of the maze, like you'd see in something like FF7-10, they're boring, right? I mean, I can totally understand you feeling that way, (especially if you dislike the color scheme) but my question is, is there such thing as a "dungeon hack" that isn't repetitive in that way?

Because, I mean, in terms of design...not visual design...but gameplay design, the mazes in most Megaten games (with the exception of AT2) are fairly well-constructed. Of course, that doesn't amount to jack if you don't want to be there in the first place.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Persona and Megaten" , posted Tue 1 Aug 23:28post reply

quote:

So you mean, since the backgrounds are "tiled" rather than having individual, different looking areas for each "screen" of the maze, like you'd see in something like FF7-10, they're boring, right? I mean, I can totally understand you feeling that way, (especially if you dislike the color scheme) but my question is, is there such thing as a "dungeon hack" that isn't repetitive in that way?

Because, I mean, in terms of design...not visual design...but gameplay design, the mazes in most Megaten games (with the exception of AT2) are fairly well-constructed. Of course, that doesn't amount to jack if you don't want to be there in the first place.



Well, honestly I don't think all dungeon hacks are repetitive. To me, a dungeon hack is just a game where you spend 95% of the time in a dungeon and the other 5% getting ready to go to a dungeon. It doesn't mean, though, that the dungeon has to be constructed of same walls, same features, same patterns, same colors, so forth ad infinitum until you reach some kind of "feature area" that seperates it from the last one you went through. The problem, I think, is that there are some people out there who won't even CALL something a dungeon hack unless it's totally repetitive like that, which ends up making that statement a self-fulfilling one. So no, I don't think all dungeon hacks have to be repetitive, but a fan of dungeon hacks probably does.





Pollyanna
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"Re(6):Re(10):Persona and Megaten" , posted Wed 2 Aug 06:43post reply

quote:

So no, I don't think all dungeon hacks have to be repetitive, but a fan of dungeon hacks probably does.



I'm sorry...I said that wrong. I was trying to ask you to NAME a dungeon hack that isn't visually repetitive.

The only one I can think of is Valkyrie Profile 2, which breaks the rules a bit by having "2-D type" dungeons that you end up being in, not because of their size, but because of their initially frustrating puzzles and lengthy battle times.

I say what I say based on budget reasons. RPGs with 95% dungeon time aren't going to appeal to a wide audience. If they aren't going to appeal to a wide audience, then they won't have a big budget, and if they don't have a big budget, it will be difficult to have dungeons that are expansive and also look good.

Ah...wait...another one is Rogue Galaxy, I suppose. Its dungeons were repetitive, but looked fairly good.

Of course, both games I mentioned are very big budget. I think in most cases, people who are into dungeon hacks don't care about graphics (or as you said, have resigned themselves to having repetitive dungeons) and so companies don't either. Honestly, the only time I've really noticed is when I went back to play SMT2.

I hope I'm not coming across as a snot here. Like "You're just not sophisticated enough to enjoy this game". The only reason I can't agree with you (in principle at least) is because you're requiring a higher budget from a game that doesn't necessarily warrant it.