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"What do you want in a new fighting game?" , posted Tue 27 Jun 08:41post reply

Im trying to make a fighting game with my peeps from my martial art school. But i want to make it different from kof and sf games...What do want to see in fighting games.





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Nate
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"Re(1):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Tue 27 Jun 08:51post reply

quote:
Im trying to make a fighting game with my peeps from my martial art school. But i want to make it different from kof and sf games...What do want to see in fighting games.



Did you get any better at making sprites?





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"Re(2):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Tue 27 Jun 10:01post reply

yeah a lot better





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"Re(3):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Tue 27 Jun 10:54post reply

quote:
yeah a lot better



Some special pointers that I have gotten from my experiences....

If the game is to be played standlone, you'll have to make a somewhat interesting, involving and replayable storyline mode.

Bonus games have been missing in games for many years, I'm sure fans will be glad to some if possible.

If you are thinking of doing a versus play possible, online gaming is a must, and you won't be having a server for it...

The least generic the gameplay and the desing are the better the game stands out for the player as 'memorable game' or 'something to catch up'.

While people never really want a 100% difficult game to play they will surely thank you if you put up some characters that are really hard to use.

In my humble opinion, a fighting game has never, and I mean never have acomplished what I call the "capacity value", which is mainly something about the one who works out more, who practices more, who knows more and is better should have the advantage; that means that complicated characters should be really complicated, but stronger than a basic one.

Complicated characters are mainly characters where you have to calculate timming, distance, height and you have to deal several options everytime you want to do something; a complicated character takes from 3 to 6 months learn and years to master.

A good game and a fun game with good players is ALWAYS an offensive/attack beased game, attack should never be something like a "routine", should always be spontaneous and clever, defending should never be "perfect", a fighting between two offensive players is a face off; a fight where someone is running away/turtling is like a chicken hunt.

Well... that's the basis, I won't spill out more, after all I'm aimmng to do a game myself before I bite the sand bag.







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"Re(1):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Tue 27 Jun 14:45post reply

Holy cow! You're still around!

quote:
Im trying to make a fighting game with my peeps from my martial art school. But i want to make it different from kof and sf games...What do want to see in fighting games.



What Toxico said. Fighting games need bonus/mini games. When the first Capsom vs. SNK came out I was expecting some mini games as they had it in SNK vs. Capcom MOTM for the Neo Geo Pocket Color. Which reminds me that I need to dig that up from my closet.

quote:
Bonus games have been missing in games for many years, I'm sure fans will be glad to some if possible.






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Black_Hayato
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"Re(1):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Tue 27 Jun 15:35post reply

If your working on a story mode, I think a mix of Jojo's Bizarre Adv. and Project Justice would work well. Jojo gave a nice "in the next episode" feel and added variety to the fighting with bonus games. Justice's story mode (and also Kikiaoh) more or less give you choices and their consequences.

I was think about to make a KOF for Wii, but came up with a new Buriki One. You hold the controller sideways and use the 1,2 and B buttons. Since weight and balance are important you can use motion detection to control momentum, stability, and sway.





Nate
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"Re(2):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Tue 27 Jun 15:54post reply

quote:
If your working on a story mode, I think a mix of Jojo's Bizarre Adv. and Project Justice would work well. Jojo gave a nice "in the next episode" feel and added variety to the fighting with bonus games. Justice's story mode (and also Kikiaoh) more or less give you choices and their consequences.



Oh, adding to this, make the storyline so that ALL the characters' endings COULD happen. Unless you go for multiple branches for each character like in Guilty Gear. But yeah, not everyone should get the "I won the tournament/destroyed the boss/whatever" plot in his/her ending. Not everyone has to be in it just for that. Throw in subplots and all that good stuff. If you have a midboss, for example, some characters could be going after the midboss instead of the main one. Have their endings/storyline reflect this. They still face the final boss but it has no real bearing on their overall story.





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"Re(3):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Tue 27 Jun 16:36post reply

I didn't realize extra stuff was that big of a deal to people.

All I care about is balance and a variety of interesting characters to use. One of the reason I like GGXX+whatever so much is because it has a lot of different, well-designed and fun to play characters. The system itself is too "loose" for my taste.

I like a lot of individuality between characters. I don't want characters that play like others and I don't want "generic" combos like you get in games with chain and air comboes. I like implementing different strategies for different characters.

Of course, KOF has most of these, so maybe I'm not "pushing the creative envelope" enough.





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"Re(1):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Tue 27 Jun 18:32post reply

quote:
Im trying to make a fighting game with my peeps from my martial art school. But i want to make it different from kof and sf games...What do want to see in fighting games.



Sorry, I have ideas but I'm afraid that whenever someone asks for them in this way they just want to steal them. You can have the crappy ones though, I don't care what happens to these.

* multiple chain recoveries, depending on how well-timed they were. Like if the timing for a 3-hit chain is off by 2 and 3 frames, the recovery is the standard 2-frame plus 2 plus 3 = 7-frame recovery. Recoveries can be cancelled with a special move but only a very punishable one
* have a character that uses a form of bone technique that seals the opponent's movements, so if it's an arm technique, the punch button will only do a special kind of punch with long recovery, or if it's a leg technique, they can't jump or dash for 15 seconds
* no super meter. Specials take special bar, supers take 5-10% life until life is 1%. Then have a special finishing attack that can only be done when both characters are at 1%. Like make it blow their shirt off or something
* have a guard meter but also special tick damage. However no cheese wins with tick damage, instead it will bring the guard meter down to zero and one must first break the guard to win
* hide button. It turns you invisible. You're completely vulnerable, you can't move, you can't attack, you're just invisible. If the opponent isn't paying attention or you manage to use screen effects to your advantage you can get the opponent to attack dead air thinking you are there, then you pop out of hiding and get a free hit





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"Re(2):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Tue 27 Jun 20:18post reply

a good Vs need Balnce and über charismatic characters. Well...IMO...






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"Re(4):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Wed 28 Jun 00:39post reply

quote:
I didn't realize extra stuff was that big of a deal to people.


For me anything that helps to create a sense of personality, setting, or anything else that helps me identify with the game is welcome. Heihachi didn't need to have optional sunglasses in Tekken 5, for example, but I worked like crazy until I had them and I never play the old guy without them. If it doesn't interfere with the game itself having a more rounded package doesn't hurt.

Toxico mentioned mini-games and I agree with conditions. As long as they serve their main purpose of being a quick distraction from grinding through the game they are fine. The announcement screen of "Chun-Li VS SUV" still makes me smile to this day. But, like I said earlier, don't let them overshadow the game itself. Godzilla: Save the Earth was stuffed with stupid mini-games that took longer to suffer through than the actual game. There were people who were also annoyed with SC3 because the standard two out of three fights up to the boss game was buried under the title of "Quick Play." Having extras isn't a bad thing but make sure that the primary focus is on putting fist to face since that's the primary reason people are interested in the game.

As far as gameplay itself: try to make sure that it's not totally obvious that the CPU opponent is reading your controller inputs. Having the CPU react before you even move is frustrating.





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"Re(5):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Wed 28 Jun 01:38post reply

quote:
As far as gameplay itself: try to make sure that it's not totally obvious that the CPU opponent is reading your controller inputs. Having the CPU react before you even move is frustrating.



heh.... 1991's SNK AI should be overcomed and forgotten at some point.

About the bonus game, remember that bonus can tell storyline issues too; rather than being the stupid "trash the card" thing, for example if to characters should hook up, you could set up a 'date' type bonus games with many stupid gimmicks to make it fun (like someone trying to break up the nice mood), my personal objective when making a game is have 2 bonuns games that are character exclusive and will tell storylines pointers for their characters.

Other advice about this; most companies like SNK and perhaps capcom avoid at all costs "direct hook up" for their characters, this is mainly because they will believe that the popularity of the female character will be reduced if she *really* hooks up with someone; I advice you to give a rat ass about popular opinion and show up the storyline as you see fit, after all you are not selling a package.







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"Re(6):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Wed 28 Jun 02:33post reply

Supers come out without some overblown eye candy or cheap game freezing pause.

That's something I always loved about the Vampire series.

Having played the SFAA, I'd like to add that it'd be a good idea to steer away from abusive moves/supers that have little to no lag to them.





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"Re(7):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Wed 28 Jun 03:18post reply

-Alot of people have said good things so I'll go with a quality TRAINING mode--not practice. Though you need a mode that allows you to simply practice combos alot of Capcom/SNK style fighters neglect a mode to actually train you how to use your basic normals and specials which really keeps beginners away. MK had a somewhat decent one in that it try to go over alot of the basics and combos but was marred with glitches. This leads to...

-ERROR TEST FOR GLITCHES AND CHARACTER BALANCE. Can't stress this enough. Tiers sometimes fluctuate wildly but there are sometimes glaring mistakes. Or purposely imbalanced in the favor of some main characters.





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"Re(2):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Wed 28 Jun 06:38post reply

quote:

* hide button. It turns you invisible. You're completely vulnerable, you can't move, you can't attack, you're just invisible. If the opponent isn't paying attention or you manage to use screen effects to your advantage you can get the opponent to attack dead air thinking you are there, then you pop out of hiding and get a free hit


Yes this is a must have for fighting game.j/k
Well this fits as special move rather than a system thingy. But its really intersting to think of.





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"Re(3):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Wed 28 Jun 06:41post reply

quote:

* hide button. It turns you invisible. You're completely vulnerable, you can't move, you can't attack, you're just invisible. If the opponent isn't paying attention or you manage to use screen effects to your advantage you can get the opponent to attack dead air thinking you are there, then you pop out of hiding and get a free hit

Yes this is a must have for fighting game.j/k
Well this fits as special move rather than a system thingy. But its really intersting to think of.


Twelve can do this in Third Strike.





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"Re(8):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Wed 28 Jun 06:51post reply

If the game is going to have projectiles, make sure every character has a way to avoid them - practically all of SNK's major games/series had ways to handle this issue, and IMO the lack of something like that was one of SvC's major problems.

My personal favorite method was AoF's, where by using projectiles (or other specials) you compromised your ability to keep using them further, and unabled you to used supers unless you took the time to recharge your power bar - I personally always found it kinda silly that in so many games since SSF2T using a lot of fireballs in a fight eventually allowed to to then use a more powerful one, when the character probably should have been rather drained after all the previous effort.


if you're making a character complex and technical, at least make sure it's worth it - Gen was given the ability to switch between 2 fighting styles in SFA2, but apparently he turned out to be the lowest tier in the game.


Instead of letting the game decide who the main character's supposed to be (and by extension which will be the most often used until the lgitches, infinites and whatnot get found) by having the character select screen cursor over him/her, have the thing start on the random character select slot, so either the character gets selected randomly by the computer, or the players are forced to choose someone that wont be always pointed out to them by default.





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"Warzard / Red Earth" , posted Wed 28 Jun 18:20post reply

Capcom needs to make an improved version of Warzard, or something revolutionary like it. I really liked that game very much.

As a bonus, four player fighting like Dungeons and Dragons TOD or SOM would bring back Capcom's luster I think.


Sushi





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"Re(9):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Thu 29 Jun 07:08post reply

quote:
My personal favorite method was AoF's, where by using projectiles (or other specials) you compromised your ability to keep using them further, and unabled you to used supers unless you took the time to recharge your power bar - I personally always found it kinda silly that in so many games since SSF2T using a lot of fireballs in a fight eventually allowed to to then use a more powerful one, when the character probably should have been rather drained after all the previous effort.


Ah, the spirit gauge! Truely one of the greatest ideas to come from AOF. Of course players that love spamming specials hated it with a passion and I can see why it was never used beyond the AOF series.

I can imagine a projectile spamming Ryu player trying to play AOF. Between having to recharge the spirit gauge and the fact one could simply destroy projectiles by punching/kicking them, I can already hear him cursing through the roof at how lame that is. LOL!

World Heroes 2 and World Heroes 2 Jet enabled you to reflect projectiles back when you blocked them at the last possible moment. That was one of my favorite anti-projectile gimmicks behind AOF.

Never could get the timing down for Erick's projectile, even to this day.





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"Re(10):What do you want in a new fighting gam" , posted Thu 29 Jun 07:18post reply

quote:
I can imagine a projectile spamming Ryu player trying to play AOF. Between having to recharge the spirit gauge and the fact one could simply destroy projectiles by punching/kicking them, I can already hear him cursing through the roof at how lame that is. LOL!


Yeah I wish for a system that computer can realize the turtles and when theyre ultimately turtling, a hand shows up and push them middle of the battle field and the turtles cant guard for a brief moment when theyve been pushed and my friend that'll be LOL!er.





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"Re(1):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Mon 3 Jul 20:41post reply

In regards to how I do things...

-My approach to designing female characters: aesthetically pleasing, but cool at the same time. Interestingly enough, though, a good number of them manage this despite being mostly covered up (there's always the option of alternates for the sake of additional fan service, after all).

-In regards to the process of character design, I tend to stay far away from stereotypes, however, the style of my cast mainly inspired by SNK (not so much SNKP, more like KoF up until '00) rather than Capcom or Arc.

-Have a lead character, but try not to make them too cliched (be it from either a design, gameplay or backstory standpoint). A rival wouldn't necessarily be a requirement.

-Whether doing the character designs alone or being assisted by others, having a varied cast while narrowing the focus will be vital to creating a cohesive vision (if your designs suggest Garou while the other guy's skew toward MK, there's a problem).

-Story, story...have one. Seriously, while it's not the most important factor, there has to be some form of motivation to keep players interested, something to help them become attached to the cast beyond the game itself (which can make your franchise even more profitable). So while you're still writing a design document, you want to more or less be writing a novel as well so as to help others get a feel for what you see.

-Make the game have style. It has to look cool, sound cool, and feel cool. Cast, soundtrack, locales, overall presentation, it all has to stand out (not in an overtly garish way, however).

-Be sure to vary the backgrounds. Crowds observing and reacting to the fight aren't of the utmost necessity (but you can include them here and there anyway), and in many cases, stages where everyone goes about their own business can work even better. Regardless, see to it that the settings are both detailed and inspiring.

-Try to avoid any unknown factors related to environmental damage (as in getting hit out of nowhere). It could be amusing at first, but the novelty will wear off pretty quickly.

-Make sure to decide between going with something that would please arcade goers or fans of innovation. If you choose something that's more arcadey, then decide whether it would be more traditional vs. (SF, KoF) or more chaotic (GG, MvC). If going with traditional, I'd recommend not including air teching, as it really messes up the flow (especially if juggling is a factor). If considering something like parrying/just defend, you might want to consider limiting it to only one or two characters. Avoid including more than one "groove" (some people like that, but many wouldn't appreciate it, not to mention it only creates more balancing issues). As far as innovation goes in that type of fighter, breaking the mold isn't necessary, but coming up with a relatively new way of doing something already present in a way that hasn't been seen before should be enough (whatever it may be, it will be necessary to make players consider your fighter over other options).

-A functional, in-depth tutorial would also help. At the same time, however, it'll have to be fun for players to learn the basics. They won't be interested in bothering if they find it grating or boring, after all. Perhaps having one of the female cast members guide players through it, with voice overs accompanying the sections?

-Definitely consider online play. You could consider occasionally uploading various gameplay vids to motivate players as well.

-Choose your publisher wisely. It would probably be better to go with one of the major Japanese corporations than anyone else (much more likely to get international exposure for your work this way).





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"Re(2):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Thu 6 Jul 04:46post reply

Thanx for the tip kori. How ya been.





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"Re(3):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Thu 6 Jul 14:08post reply

quote:
Thanx for the tip kori. How ya been.



No problem. I've been alright, not much going on aside from college classes. How about you?





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"Re(4):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Fri 7 Jul 09:11post reply

Good training in martial arts and designing games and such.





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"Re(3):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Sat 8 Jul 08:37post reply

quote:
yeah a lot better



Are any of these "better" sprites on-line?

I was gonna do a full critique of every sprite edit in your Photobucket since there's still a lot of the same problems you had before in their "animation" (they're still unnaturally moving, with you making them bob up and down by ownly moving their feet and arms with stoic torsos, legs, and heads and with unnatural lighting.)

However it occured to me those might be "old"... so can we see some of the newer ones or can I give you some advice on how to fix the ones in your PB account?






Blanka and Dan make for a most excellent tag image (yeah still not funny)

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"Re(4):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Sun 9 Jul 04:01post reply

quote:
yeah a lot better


Are any of these "better" sprites on-line?

I was gonna do a full critique of every sprite edit in your Photobucket since there's still a lot of the same problems you had before in their "animation" (they're still unnaturally moving, with you making them bob up and down by ownly moving their feet and arms with stoic torsos, legs, and heads and with unnatural lighting.)

However it occured to me those might be "old"... so can we see some of the newer ones or can I give you some advice on how to fix the ones in your PB account?






yeah there old sprites i'll update some soon.





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"Re(1):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Thu 13 Jul 14:44post reply

quote:
Im trying to make a fighting game with my peeps from my martial art school.


Make it like Sammy's Fist of the North Star, where people who know one juggle can VIOLATE first-timers with the most screen-flashes possible!!!!!!

. . . . . . .

Or, for research purposes, see Rumble Fish 2.





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"Re(2):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Thu 13 Jul 18:54post reply

quote:
Im trying to make a fighting game with my peeps from my martial art school.

Make it like Sammy's Fist of the North Star, where people who know one juggle can VIOLATE first-timers with the most screen-flashes possible!!!!!!

. . . . . . .

Or, for research purposes, see Rumble Fish 2.


Off topic: I remember that avatar from somewhere.





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"Re(3):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Fri 14 Jul 13:18post reply

quote:
Off topic: I remember that avatar from somewhere.



If you're in Tokyo, it was on an ad for Kanebo LavShuca cosmetics back in February.





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"Re(4):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Fri 14 Jul 15:03post reply

fuck fighters

lets play some


haloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo





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"Re(5):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Sat 15 Jul 15:38post reply

quote:
haloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Hollaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh?





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"Re(1):What do you want in a new fighting game" , posted Mon 17 Jul 00:39post reply

quote:
Im trying to make a fighting game with my peeps from my martial art school. But i want to make it different from kof and sf games...What do want to see in fighting games.

Well, so much for being different, but I'd like to see a more advanced SFIII engine that intermixes parry and single-hit, unblockable moves.