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Rid
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"otakus and moe" , posted Mon 15 May 21:09post reply

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/news/20060512p2g00m0dm014000c.html

Hard to disagree





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Time Mage
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"Re(1):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 01:03:post reply

Very interesting read. And one of the very few voices against the pedophilia disguised as "moe" I've ever read.





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[this message was edited by Time Mage on Tue 16 May 03:42]

Gojira
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"Re(2):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 02:46post reply

Exactly the reason Genshiken deserves no praise whatsoever.





jiji
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"Re(3):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 03:17post reply

quote:
Exactly the reason Genshiken deserves no praise whatsoever.



Are you under the impression that Genshiken is meant to be an entirely favorable depiction of otaku? Because really, it pulls no punches. It is not idealized or a glossing-over of the otaku life. It tells all there is to tell, good and bad, and it twists the knife.





Zepy
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"Re(4):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 03:22post reply

But this year's moe theme is tsundere. Her statements are irrelevant!

I like this quote "Real otaku should go back and shut yourselves off from the world again. The true value of being a real otaku lay in the belief that nobody else understands you."





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"Re(5):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 03:40post reply

quote:
But this year's moe theme is tsundere. Her statements are irrelevant!

I like this quote "Real otaku should go back and shut yourselves off from the world again. The true value of being a real otaku lay in the belief that nobody else understands you."



I liked that too. Her words are pretty true across the board.





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"Re(5):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 04:05post reply

quote:
But this year's moe theme is tsundere. Her statements are irrelevant!




Intresting read but I must agree with Zepy.
Moe 2006 = Tsudere-fest






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Gojira
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"Re(4):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 11:21post reply

quote:

Are you under the impression that Genshiken is meant to be an entirely favorable depiction of otaku? Because really, it pulls no punches. It is not idealized or a glossing-over of the otaku life. It tells all there is to tell, good and bad, and it twists the knife.



I'm under the impression that people think it's a realistic depiction of otaku rather than the idealized one it really is. The negatives are only there to try and dispel larger, more pathetic negatives.





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"Re(5):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 11:56post reply

quote:
But this year's moe theme is tsundere. Her statements are irrelevant!

I like this quote "Real otaku should go back and shut yourselves off from the world again. The true value of being a real otaku lay in the belief that nobody else understands you."



I don't understand her rant nor do I understand the quote. What's the difference between a real otaku and a (for lack of a better term) moe otaku? And why is what she says the "true value" of an otaku? I was under the impression that otaku have NO value outside of what they are willing to spend on useless junk. They contribute almost nothing to society except perhaps to water conservation due to the fact that they don't shower enough. That being said, I am happy that they are finding some kind of acceptance in Japanese society. No one needs to be shunned, as long as they are willing to play nice.

As for pedophiles, I think we can all agree that they are disgusting, regardless of whether they are otaku or not. At least otaku pedophiles focus their perversion toward animation and art and not toward real children though.

This moe "boom" doesnt validate pedophilia any more than the pedophile otaku culture did before the "boom". Pedophiles (again regardless of whether they are otaku or not) are as creepy now as they were then.





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"Re(6):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 16:54post reply

I can't say that I validly know what "moe" means. My understanding is that it means some mish-mash of fashionable/attractive/cute/beautiful, but I'm pretty sure that's far from complete and correct.

Somebody fill me in?





makatiel
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"Re(7):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 17:37post reply

quote:
I can't say that I validly know what "moe" means. My understanding is that it means some mish-mash of fashionable/attractive/cute/beautiful, but I'm pretty sure that's far from complete and correct.

Somebody fill me in?



it's defined, sort of, in the article.





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"Re(6):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 20:42post reply

quote:
They contribute almost nothing to society except perhaps to water conservation due to the fact that they don't shower enough.

Economically, they are incredibly useful for Japan (really).

I find that article totally worthless. It might have been simili-right in 1998, and I'm not even sure of that.





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"Re(1):otakus and moe" , posted Tue 16 May 22:51post reply

I don't think otaku is doing "coming out". It's the media which kinda created "moe" otaku, and Japanese people know well enough to use whatever new to boost the economy. Like producing and selling "moe" goods. I saw a "moe~ Hello Kitty" for example. The expression "moe" exists alone and now they just associated it with otaku. Anyway, otaku will remain otaku whether they are "moe" or not... Well, I'd say they were "moe" about something in the first place, that's why they are otaku. So, why now they talk so much about them with "moe"? It's just a vogue thing and the vogue attracts a lot of money.

Sorry, I'm a bit off the topic.





exodus
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"Re(7):otakus and moe" , posted Wed 17 May 01:05post reply

quote:
I find that article totally worthless. It might have been simili-right in 1998, and I'm not even sure of that.



well, as is typical, it took until now for someone within the community to criticize it. I think it's who's saying that makes it a little more interesting.





Zepy
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"Re(8):otakus and moe" , posted Wed 17 May 03:21post reply

Indeed, the problems of the proliferation of the idea of "moe" and it's inevitable disfiguration of meaning has been on the minds of many. In fact, Vippers had already been complaining about the usage of moe by normal people, or the misperception of moe.

Hence on January 2006(I think), the ever hardworking Vippers created a new word to replace moe. They call it "ccmz".

On May 2006 today, the new word hasn't caught on. And it has fallen into the depths of abyss, never to be heard from again.





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"Re(9):otakus and moe" , posted Fri 19 May 15:56:post reply

This artist picks up on a number of good points, especially how the current otakus are becoming target to a money making cycle. On the other hand, she says some really weird things and also neglects to mention the female side of the otakus, those known as the 腐女's.

I've never heard of this lady, so I did some checking up and found out that she's actually got a page in the Japanese Wikipedia. It's helped out in explaining her interesting views. I've checked a a number of other sites as well, and they seem to match up with what's written in the Wiki entry.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%95%E3%81%8B%E3%82%82%E3%81%A8%E6%9C%AA%E6%98%8E


Quick roundup for people that can't read Japanese: She's a comic artist that draws for the female audience. She's considered to have a conservative mind towards men and demands them to be "manly". A few of her suggestions to make the men in Japan more "manly" include the return of the military-draft system in Japan, and the addition of special taxes to single men. (On the other hand, she also criticizes men that seek "female-ness" to women.)


The definition of "Otaku" definitely changed a lot during the past few years, and it's pretty natural that the older generations can't accept it. This lady is eh... almost nearing her 40's.





[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 19 May 16:19]

Yotsuba
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"Re(10):otakus and moe" , posted Fri 19 May 16:14post reply

quote:

She's a comic artist that draws for the female audience.



Porn Ladies Comics.... more precisely.





Ikari Loona
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"Re(10):otakus and moe" , posted Sat 20 May 06:57post reply

quote:
This artist picks up on a number of good points, especially how the current otakus are becoming target to a money making cycle. On the other hand, she says some really weird things and also neglects to mention the female side of the otakus, those known as the 腐女's.


The girls (I hear they're calling them otome nowadays, dunno if that's what's written there) generally don't feel as threatening or weird - at least apart from Nevada-tan there aren't any major cases of one killing someone in the media, that I know of at least.

Then again, they're the target audience for her work, and you don't bite the hand that feeds you...

quote:
Quick roundup for people that can't read Japanese: She's a comic artist that draws for the female audience. She's considered to have a conservative mind towards men and demands them to be "manly".


I wonder if that how she depicts them in her comics... considering what's out there strictly for the female audience, odds are her male characters wouldn't have a hard time identifying with the girls and vice-versa...

quote:
A few of her suggestions to make the men in Japan more "manly" include the return of the military-draft system in Japan, and the addition of special taxes to single men.


This one's tragically funny, encouraging people to get married strictly for the tax benefits (or "damage control")... THAT should do wonders for the proliferation of happy marriages and emotionally well-adjusted families, considering the current family structure in Japan has enough of a problem with that, the hikikomori phenomena being its peak, or something rather close to it...

quote:
(On the other hand, she also criticizes men that seek "female-ness" to women.)


I wonder if in a couple of years' time tomboyishness will be the new moe...



I have my own theories on the moe appeal thing, but I've been reading Jung on a whim and I hardly have a solid background in psychology - my take on it is that many otaku see something of themselves in those childlike apparently helpless characters they so adore and ideally feel the instinct to protect... many of whom would probably still have a thing or two to learn about taking care of themselves...





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