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Time Mage
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"Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 18:12post reply

Don't you think so?

First, the price. 500$ or 600$ in EEUU, and 500€ or 600€ in Europe (that is, a 25% price increase in Europe, they may think we are rich). That, even if expected, is a too high price.

Second, the controller. They ditched their own new controller (the boomerang one that NOBODY had the opportunity to test) because of the critics on its looks (or so it seems) and they return to the (already old in the PS2 era) dual shock design, with wireless and motion sensor functions, shamelessly copying Nintendo. Do they have any confidence in their own ideas? It doesn't seem so.

Third, the "games". Again, more CG's than real time demos, not a single gameplay footage, and still, the press agreed saying that all the footage shown was disappointing except, as always, Kojima's work, that is, his MGS4 trailer.

Discuss.





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Maese Spt
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"Re(1):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 18:36post reply

quote:
a 25% price increase in Europe, they may think we are rich



You know, those are the things that totally piss me off. We europeans are the most mistreated market, games only reach our shores months (and even years!) after their japanese and/or american releases, yet they charge us with the highest prices... shame, shame, shame.

On the other hand, I'm happy with the good ol' PSX pad. That's the best controller design ever for me: comfortable, handy and reliable. Plus, I'm quite used to it.

I'm happy hearing they ditched that rumble device as well, few games really do improve with such a feature. To say the truth, I've always regarded that vibration stuff quite pointless since the very beginning. Well, gaming girls may think otherwise, though...

Anyway, I won't consider getting a PS3 until 2010 or so (aka: when the price would drop to a reasonable amount and Konami would have released a pair of of Suikoden or three), so who I am to argue...






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"Re(2):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 18:51post reply

quote:

On the other hand, I'm happy with the good ol' PSX pad. That's the best controller design ever for me: comfortable, handy and reliable. Plus, I'm quite used to it.



For once, I totally agree with you.

Designing a new controller is good IF you have a better design in mind, but making a new controller for the sake of making a new controller is just silly when you already have an excellent model. That kind of thinking gets you Nintendo-esque messes with some buttons much bigger than others, weirdo analogs and buttons on the back of the controller.

The "boomerang" controller obviously didn't have any kind of increased functionality and nobody liked it, so sticking with it would have been foolish.

As for the motion sensor, well, you COULD say "Sony's already experimented with motion sensoring with the Eyetoy." Although that's almost definitely not the case, and they're almost definitely ripping off Nintendo. The thing is, if the alternative is NOT having that option, what's the benefit? If you have the choice of increased functionality that can compete with another system versus...not having it...the choice is obvious. The only thing is, the dualshock doesn't have a very "aerodynamic" shape, so I might feel silly moving it around. There's no place to grip it in the middle, but holding it with both hands seems unecessary.

I can't say I'll MISS the vibration, but I can't agree that it's useless. 9 out of 10 games don't use it well, but I have been quite delighted with the 10% (maybe more like 5%) that do.

As for the price...well, expensive technology is expensive. I just hope the thing doesn't break easily. I don't want a cheap system, I want a durable one. Of course, my opinion is one-sided, since I have plenty of money, but I still probably won't rush to buy one, because there aren't any games I want on it yet.

I held off on buying a PS2, not because I was waiting for a price cut, but because it didn't have any games that interested me until Silent Hill 2 came out.

That being said...so far...yeah...pretty disappointing on the game announcements/playable demos. I'm holding out for the TGS, though.





Time Mage
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"Re(3):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 19:07:post reply

quote:

On the other hand, I'm happy with the good ol' PSX pad. That's the best controller design ever for me: comfortable, handy and reliable. Plus, I'm quite used to it.


For once, I totally agree with you.

Designing a new controller is good IF you have a better design in mind, but making a new controller for the sake of making a new controller is just silly when you already have an excellent model. That kind of thinking gets you Nintendo-esque messes with some buttons much bigger than others, weirdo analogs and buttons on the back of the controller.

The "boomerang" controller obviously didn't have any kind of increased functionality and nobody liked it, so sticking with it would have been foolish.


But the dual shock is one of the less ergonomic pads in existance! The "horns" were a great idea back in 1996, but now that same shape feels old, considering the better ergonomics that other controllers (the GC and even the XBox's one) have. That, plus the analog sticks position was fine when they had to force them in the original PSX controller, but they've had a lot of time to change it! Analog control is the main way of controlling games now, so analog sticks should occupy a prominent place in the controller. And you can do that without hindering the access to the digital pad, like what happens with the GC pad: The XBox controller does that quite well.
If they wanted to make the controller better, there were plenty of easy things they could do. By keeping the exact same design (with added functionalities, yes) they are just trying to attract the people that, like both of you, think that just because you are accostumed to that controller, there's no problem in not changing it for better. I'm accustomed to the dual shock too (you can get accustomed to everything, I know a friend that plays CvS2 better on a GC controller than with anything else), but I see all its evident design flaws, also.





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[this message was edited by Time Mage on Tue 9 May 19:09]

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"Re(3):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 19:16post reply

I Loved the MGS4 trailer.very sadening.kojima always delivers,music is nice and a very surprising ending.final fantasy 13 and versus seemed interesting but nothing amazing.
I guess the same senario of the xbox360 will happen with the ps3 except the affect is bigger. if u want to buy a real ps3 get the 600$ while the 500$ will pile up in stores.
ps2 controller+home button(xbox360)+ tilting sensor(wii)=Ps3 controller

and yeah I guess the ps3 controller won't be as effective as the wii due to the different shape of the 2 controllers.I think the ps3 will only sense tilting and not tilting ang motion like the wii but its a guess.





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"Re(4):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 19:52post reply

Somehow I'll fallow Time Mage's path...
The price is deffinitely a let down, as for the controler, I would say a "who cares?". I, never liked the boomrang, so back to the dual shock stile is not a huge idea, but not a bad one either...

MGS4 and FF13 trailer are in download right now so..






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"Re(4):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 20:34post reply

Good, if the Dual Shock is going to be system default again, I won't have any problems. I was worried since the ports aren't standardized like the PS2. No way I was going to play my PS2 games with that silly boomerang.

The price is an issue, but oh well. I just hope at that price it's less prone to lens and motor problems than the other Sony systems. I would never pay $500 for a system that won't live past 3 years.





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"Re(1):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 21:51post reply

I couldn't care less for the PS3.
That was before I saw the MGS4 trailer.
Now I need one.
And I need to play MGS2 and 3 again (and take notes this time).





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"Re(2):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 22:44post reply

What really surprised me, is taht M$oft didn't show something big yet...
Are they waiting until SONY have shown everthing to react?
I was expecting that Gear of war and Halo 3 would be M$oft weapon to counter MGS4 & Co...






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catalyst
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"Re(1):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 23:04:post reply

quote:


Second, the controller. They ditched their own new controller (the boomerang one that NOBODY had the opportunity to test) because of the critics on its looks (or so it seems) and they return to the (already old in the PS2 era) dual shock design, with wireless and motion sensor functions, shamelessly copying Nintendo. Do they have any confidence in their own ideas? It doesn't seem so.




Time Mage, I was actually curious but when you mentioned about the ps2 controller copying nintendos in term of motion sensor design, the motion sensor isn't so bad is it? I have no experiencing of it but I read a while back before the change that the ps3 specs for the controller were bluetooth enabled. Would one out favor the other in reception with the control and the system?

edit: and of course great work by Kojima with MGS4 great emotional appeal with the music link to the game.






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[this message was edited by catalyst on Tue 9 May 23:09]

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"Re(2):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Tue 9 May 23:47post reply

While the PSX controller is my favorite general purpose controller I do admit I'm a bit surprised that Sony went back to it yet again. I'm glad that somebody realized that you don't have to re-design the controller if there's nothing to gain from it other than a cosmetic change.

The motion thing seems like a silly add-on but I'm sure somebody will figure out a good use for it in a couple of years. But will I have to hold the PS3 controller in a certain way when playing games that use this feature instead of the sloppy way I normally hold a controller? If nothing else the PS3 will make sure players have proper posture.

Is the lack of the rumble feature due to that long-running lawsuit? While I'm not going to miss the random twitching that most games used the feature for there were a few games out there that made the rumble thing an actual, fun part of the game experience.





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"Re(2):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 00:27post reply

quote:
. Well, gaming girls may think otherwise, though...

Hah, and it feels good when you have a sore back. Square's sparse use of it in Final Fantasy games always seemed appropriate, and when Working Designs added it to the US versions of the Lunar games, it added a bit more excitement to the games' older graphic atmosphere. Funny that I only like forcefeedback in RPG's...I wouldn't have it on for SF, Tekken, or Soul Calibur in a million years. Oh well.





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"Brokeback dualshock" , posted Wed 10 May 00:42:post reply

quote:
Well, gaming girls may think otherwise, though...
Hah, and it feels good when you have a sore back.



Or a brokeback... Sorry, someone had to do it.






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[this message was edited by Maese Spt on Wed 10 May 00:44]

Time Mage
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"Re(2):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 03:23:post reply

quote:
Time Mage, I was actually curious but when you mentioned about the ps2 controller copying nintendos in term of motion sensor design, the motion sensor isn't so bad is it? I have no experiencing of it but I read a while back before the change that the ps3 specs for the controller were bluetooth enabled. Would one out favor the other in reception with the control and the system?


While I think I don't really understand what you are saying, I'll try to reply to what I think you're saying:

PS3 controller having motion sensing is not bad, of course. Used properly, it will add a lot to their games, I'm sure of it. What I criticized was the step backwards that was adopting yet again the same controller design (which, I repeat, I thing has some serious ergonomical problems that could be solved tweaking the design a bit), and the lack of confidence in their own ideas that this shows, along with partly copying Nintendo's idea. Regarding Bluetooth, I think it won't interfere with their motion sensing device, if that's what you were implying.





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[this message was edited by Time Mage on Wed 10 May 04:08]

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"Re(3):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 03:31post reply

Well I don't really know where I can post this, but since it's on Ps3 and I don't want to open a new thread for it...

[url=http://www.jeux-france.com/news15704_tekken-6-se-devoile-en-images.html
]Tekken 6 is here.






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"Re(1):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 04:05post reply

quote:
Don't you think so?



Second, the controller. They ditched their own new controller (the boomerang one that NOBODY had the opportunity to test) because of the critics on its looks (or so it seems) and they return to the (already old in the PS2 era) dual shock design, with wireless and motion sensor functions, shamelessly copying Nintendo.



Anger!! Anger!! They dont have any shame do they?!?! What can I say? F#$%&*@ Sony





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"Re(2):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 04:09post reply

Any news if the PS3 is region 0?






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"Re(2):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 05:05post reply

quote:
Anger!! Anger!! They dont have any shame do they?!?! What can I say? F#$%&*@ Sony
Actually the Dual Shock motion sensor doesn't seems to be anywhere as advanced as the Wii one. Plus its shape makes it impractical to use, since you have to grab it with both hands.





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"Re(4):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 06:23post reply

quote:

But the dual shock is one of the less ergonomic pads in existance!



I'll just have to take your word for it. I mean, I prefer the dual shock to any other controller, but I'm biased. I'm biased because I'm used to it. That doesn't mean it ISN'T good, just that I can't give an objective opinion.

But, if you're just talking in terms of shape, it would have been nice to reposition things just a little to cater it to motion sensor movement a little better.





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"Re(5):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 06:56post reply

quote:

But the dual shock is one of the less ergonomic pads in existance!


I'll just have to take your word for it. I mean, I prefer the dual shock to any other controller, but I'm biased. I'm biased because I'm used to it. That doesn't mean it ISN'T good, just that I can't give an objective opinion.

But, if you're just talking in terms of shape, it would have been nice to reposition things just a little to cater it to motion sensor movement a little better.



I'm in the same boat. I think the Dual Shock is the most efficient design and kind of the catch all in terms of comfortable shape. I don't really see any reason to redesign it and there are just enough buttons to handle required actions in game without becoming too complicated. The gyroscopic deal will probably end up like their preasure sensitive buttons: used occationally but not a system defining feature.

Overall I thought the Sony showing was decent but with a couple big flaws. I'm pretty sure that I remember them bad mouthing Microsoft about splitting the market between two different console packages. However now they're doing it even worse since you can't upgrade the $500 version so that it can be on par with the $600 one's functions like HDMI or WiFi. So I have to get the more expesive PS3 because if I go cheap initially I'm stuck with that. That brings up the other problem. Everyone knew it was going to be pricey but $600? It seems a good deal of the price is the Blu-ray drive which is shitty since that's really just Sony's Trojan Horse in order to get us to use their disk format and no one really wants it.

Sony might be overestimating their market dominance I think. While I'm sure they'll sell out their initial shipments, I'm not so convinced it will do so well afterwards. Most console launches are pretty crummy and I can't see paying more than half a grand so that I can play prettier versions of Dynasty Warriors.

I also wish they had mentioned their plans for the PSP more. There’s some great titles on the thing but it seems like Sony is trying to screw it over with their obsession with stopping homebrew applications and the rumors that they are not letting 3rd parties the internet for multiplayer.






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"Re(6):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 07:55post reply

quote:

Sony might be overestimating their market dominance I think. While I'm sure they'll sell out their initial shipments, I'm not so convinced it will do so well afterwards. Most console launches are pretty crummy and I can't see paying more than half a grand so that I can play prettier versions of Dynasty Warriors.



It's a dirty and scary market right now. I would agree that Sony will get knocked down a bit, but the 360 really isn't delivering ANYTHING right now. Nintendo is the absolute wild card here...so I don't know how Sony's "dominance" is going to go. The excitement that the Wii is generating isn't really good for them.

However, I have confidence that they will remain very powerful, if not #1 in the end. They're using a lot of new technology on the PS3, so I think we'll be seeing a price cut later. By then, they'll have a strong (probably the strongest) selection of games, and they'll still be relatively early in their "life cycle".

So, they'll probably have a medium start, slow period, then come out very strong later. I'm hoping the same for the 360...or it'll just be useless.

It's funny how my perspective has changed now that I can actually afford all 3 systems. Before, I was saying "I want Microsoft out of the picture, because I know Sony isn't going away...and I want Nintendo to offer a completely different style of gameplay that won't compete with Sony."

But now...I think Microsoft has put forth some good ideas and they treat their fans better than Sony does. I'm hoping if nothing else, they'll inspire Sony to rip off some of their better qualities.





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"Re(7):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 09:46:post reply

there was some ok looking stuff. MGS 4, even though I'm not a fan, was nice looking. And the graphics do seem decent. I can't justify the price, but I guess I may eventually get one. Strangely, this conference made the 360 more attractive to me.

The controller thing was a pretty low blow though, eh?

[edit]
though I guess it's not really - sony has the right to make a similar interface if they want to. it's just a bit of a trump. nintendo's conference had nothing new to say, so sony kind of actually succeeded.





[this message was edited by exodus on Wed 10 May 09:47]

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"Re(8):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 11:24post reply

Anyone else get the impression that Heavenly Sword was supposed to be God of War minus the fugly lead character?





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"Re(9):Sony conference: disappointing" , posted Wed 10 May 13:18post reply

quote:
Anyone else get the impression that Heavenly Sword was supposed to be God of War minus the fugly lead character?



Yes, but with the addition of a slightly less fugly war bride as the main character.





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"GIANT ENEMY CRAB" , posted Tue 16 May 05:19:post reply

The real highlights of the Sony Press conference.

Sony attacks your wallet's weak spot for MASSIVE DAMAGE!

About the controller stuff, the tilt is just slapped on and I believe they had the "rumble" sued out of them.

GIANT ENEMY CRAB, damnit!





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Tue 16 May 05:21]

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"Re(1):GIANT ENEMY CRAB" , posted Tue 16 May 05:46post reply

quote:

About the controller stuff, the tilt is just slapped on and I believe they had the "rumble" sued out of them.



the tilt is lame, but not just slapped on - they had movement stuff back in 99 with the original playstation, just never fully developed it. it's an extension of that, I believe.





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"Re(1):GIANT ENEMY CRAB" , posted Tue 16 May 06:43post reply

quote:
The real highlights of the Sony Press conference.



I'd be more interested if the guy had said "DAYTONA USA!" over and over again.





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"Re(2):GIANT ENEMY CRAB" , posted Tue 16 May 06:44post reply

quote:

the tilt is lame, but not just slapped on - they had movement stuff back in 99 with the original playstation, just never fully developed it. it's an extension of that, I believe.



Well, slapped onto the one game that took advantage of it.

GS actually has an interview with Kojima expressing disappointment at losing the rumble and being surprised by the title.

That wacky Sony.





/ / /

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"Re(3):GIANT ENEMY CRAB" , posted Tue 16 May 07:08post reply

RIDGE RACER!!!!!!!!!

And on a related note, Daayyyyytoooonaaaaaaa





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