Let's discuss Noise Factory... - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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Nate
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"Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Sun 31 Jul 06:03post reply

So I've been playing Gaia Crusaders lately and the frustration of trying to beat the damn game got me thinking.

What the hell is wrong with them?! I know they're arcade game makers but it's as if they purposely want players to get frustrated and lose.

Both Gaia Crusaders and Sengoku 3 (or whatever it's called) are actually pretty fun, with their similar combo systems. But the problem in both is that once you reach a certain point there's a HUGE spike in difficulty. Enemies suddenly gain invincible, unpunishable attacks and your character starts getting hit out of everything. You start taking more damage than before and in shorter amounts of time. I know games are supposed to get harder as you progress, but this is ridiculous. In Gaia Crusaders, they give enemies in later stages invincible wakeup attacks. Your character doesn't even have that. The only thing that does stop some of these attacks is either using an item (which you don't get nearly enough of) or the desperation attack, which seems to drain more life than taking the hit sometimes. Not to mention that when hitting a group of enemies, there's almost always one who will be JUST outside the range of your attacks and get a free hit or two on you. It seems like the player's hitboxes are much smaller than the enemy's, because there are some with jumping attacks that can hit from basically anywhere. By the final boss it's just ridiculous. All the fun of the first stages is taken away by giving the enemies all these huge advantages and overprioritizing them.

Then there's the fighting games Noise Factory has worked on. Rage of the Dragons had an insanely difficult boss. If he wasn't throwing some huge projectile, he had that insanely overprioritized command grab. Sure, there were a few ways around him, but it certainly wasn't a fair match.

Matrimelee wasn't much better. The only way to beat Sissy was to double jump over her and knock her down while she was attacking. Where's the fun in that?

I've also heard KOFMI has a similarly stupidly powerful boss.

The saddest part about all these games is that they actually have pretty good graphics and music, but they're just so shoddily programmed that the whole experience is ruined. Last time I checked, there was a difference between a challenge and whatever it is Noise Factory thinks they're giving people playing these games (a headache, maybe).

What do you think is the reasoning behind this? Is Noise Factory just crappy at programming? Most of their games contain some enjoyable elements and yet they have to throw in things that basically ruin it.





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Pollyanna
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"Re(1):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Sun 31 Jul 08:44post reply

Well, I have to agree and disagree with you. I've played the fighting games you mentioned, but I didn't do more than 2 levels in Sengoku 3. I think beat 'em up games tend to disregard fun for an excuse to steal your money after a certain point, though.

As for the fighting game bosses, I don't find them any worse than other SNK bosses. Actually better than most. I don't recall having problems with Sissy or the RoTD guy (though his throw did, indeed suck) and Geese wasn't THAT bad. Well, it's not like Geese doesn't suck, but he's not high on my list of SNK bosses I don't want to fight. Honestly, I can't think of a single SNK boss I would classify as "fun" to fight. I guess KOF 98 Rugal gives me the least trouble, but that's not really a compliment.

It's not that I think your point is invalid, it's just that I don't think it's limited to Noise Factory.





Nate
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"Re(2):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Sun 31 Jul 09:15:post reply

quote:
Well, I have to agree and disagree with you. I've played the fighting games you mentioned, but I didn't do more than 2 levels in Sengoku 3. I think beat 'em up games tend to disregard fun for an excuse to steal your money after a certain point, though.

Not Streets of Rage! Then again, that never came out in arcades, either. And what about the Dungeons and Dragons games? I don't feel like they suddenly got stupidly harder out of nowhere, anyway.

quote:

As for the fighting game bosses, I don't find them any worse than other SNK bosses. Actually better than most. I don't recall having problems with Sissy or the RoTD guy (though his throw did, indeed suck) and Geese wasn't THAT bad. Well, it's not like Geese doesn't suck, but he's not high on my list of SNK bosses I don't want to fight. Honestly, I can't think of a single SNK boss I would classify as "fun" to fight. I guess KOF 98 Rugal gives me the least trouble, but that's not really a compliment.

It's not that I think your point is invalid, it's just that I don't think it's limited to Noise Factory.


I actually forgot to even include Geese, but yeah, I heard he's bad news too.

I didn't mean fun so much as you actually have a chance. I don't know, as nightmarish as bosses like Ignis were, SNK would occasionally throw you a bone and have someone horrendously easy like Orochi. There were ways around most of the attacks that were tough to deal with. There were also bosses who occasionally became very stupid and let you whoop them. That doesn't seem to be the case with Noise Factory to me. They just make MEAN bosses or something. Maybe it has to do with their personalities and voices (Sissy in particular).

Oh, and I agree that it isn't JUST Noise Factory, it's just very apparent in everything they've worked on.





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[this message was edited by Nate on Sun 31 Jul 09:19]

NARUTO
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"Re(3):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Sun 31 Jul 18:02post reply

If I can't talk that much about ROTD and Matrimelee, (I dodn't played those much.) I'm a usual Beat them up player and a Sengoku 3 fan.

So I understand what you mean with the Sengoku 3 difficulty level up, then again your right, BTU like street of rage never have such "dificulty boost". But IMO they made it in Sengoku 3 due to the combo system. At 1st I was just like you, and then talked about it with Toxico who gives me some nice tips about the combo system.
And when your used to it, the game turns somehow easy or easier I should say. Only the boss like the thunder samurai, and the last one turn to be a problem.

In street of rage you can't like ennemis as easily as in Sengoku 3, that surely why the difficulty grows slowly.






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"Re(3):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Sun 31 Jul 18:02post reply

If I can't talk that much about ROTD and Matrimelee, (I dodn't played those much.) I'm a usual Beat them up player and a Sengoku 3 fan.

So I understand what you mean with the Sengoku 3 difficulty level up, then again your right, BTU like street of rage never have such "dificulty boost". But IMO they made it in Sengoku 3 due to the combo system. At 1st I was just like you, and then talked about it with Toxico who gives me some nice tips about the combo system.
And when your used to it, the game turns somehow easy or easier I should say. Only the boss like the thunder samurai, and the last one turn to be a problem.

In street of rage you can't like ennemis as easily as in Sengoku 3, that surely why the difficulty grows slowly.






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Stifu
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"Re(4):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Sun 31 Jul 18:54post reply

In Matrimelee, the older grandma (forgot her name) has a wicked fireballs move... Just with that one, you can beat Sissy quite easily.

But yeah, still, I agree with you.





aderack
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"Re(5):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Mon 1 Aug 07:36:post reply

You know, Duke isn't that hard to beat when you get used to him. And keep in mind who's talking here. If I can beat him, and not just on the easiest settings, he can't be that tricky.

I actually think he's somewhat more fair than I'm used to from SNK bosses. Certainly better than Geese. You just need the right strategies, and you're close to set.

It's kind of a pattern recognition and memorization thing -- like playing a shooter.





[this message was edited by aderack on Mon 1 Aug 07:37]

Ammadeau
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"Re(6):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Mon 1 Aug 11:26post reply

I've beaten Duke on normal difficulty, getting perfect both rounds, so no he's not terribly difficult. In a player's hands he can be cheap perhaps, but not with predictable AI patterns.





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Nate
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"Re(7):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Mon 1 Aug 11:28post reply

quote:
I've beaten Duke on normal difficulty, getting perfect both rounds, so no he's not terribly difficult. In a player's hands he can be cheap perhaps, but not with predictable AI patterns.


So basically Duke's not so bad. I still say Johann, Geese and Sissy are bad, though.





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"Re(8):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Mon 1 Aug 19:46post reply

quote:

So basically Duke's not so bad. I still say Johann, Geese and Sissy are bad, though.


Deffinitely... Now the question is, what the new Gogetsuji will bring??






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"Re(9):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Wed 3 Aug 03:49post reply

quote:

So basically Duke's not so bad. I still say Johann, Geese and Sissy are bad, though.



Well, like they have already said Sengoku 3 isn't that bad, in fact in difficulty Lvl 6 settings I could beat the game with one credit on 1p game, it was great when I have to do lunch time before the job xd

I agree with Johann 6 Sissy being bothersome, but they can easily be beated up once you notice stupid ai paterns, I could beat those games 100% of the time, but like it has been said it wasn't fun.

The thing about Noise Factory games is that I think most of the games seen pretty generic with no 'particular characteristics', I mean; Matrimelee and RotD feel very much like a 'Improved SF2' and Sengoku 3 just has too few enemies, tough it can be fun to waste enemies in a few seconds it can be boring to kill a samurai 100 times on a stage.

Gaia Crusaders had more personality, but I haven't played it enough to truly master it/beat it; it is not in my arcades and I can't care less for mame XD







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"Re(2):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Thu 4 Aug 21:56post reply

quote:
Honestly, I can't think of a single SNK boss I would classify as "fun" to fight.




Real Bout games' bosses ?





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Amakusa
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"Re(3):Let's discuss Noise Factory..." , posted Fri 5 Aug 11:56post reply

quote:
Honestly, I can't think of a single SNK boss I would classify as "fun" to fight.


Real Bout games' bosses ?



Yeah, I think I beat Real Bout 2 with ALL of the characters, even the ones I couldn't really use.

Actually I like fighting Kouryu in Last Blade 2; he wasn't too bad to fight, really. Kagami in the first Last Blade wasn't so bad, either, since I beat the game with every character in that game, too.





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